Harry Bexley oral history interview, 2007-02-14

PHILIP LAPORTE: Good morning. Today is Wednesday, February 14, 2007. My name is Philip LaPorte; I am the director of the Labor Studies Program at Georgia State University. Today, we will be interviewing Mr. Harry Bexley as part of the Georgia State University's Southern Labor Archives' Voices of Labor Oral History Project. Mr. Bexley has agreed to sit for an interview, and we are delighted to have him here with us today. Harry Bexley is the business manager emeritus of Local 613 of the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers. Well, Harry, it's great to have you here today. I want to start the interview out with you just telling a little bit about your background, where you grew up, what your parents did, and where you attended school.

HARRY BEXLEY: Well, let's see. I was born in 1922, in our own homestead, Bexton, Georgia, which I was third generation. My great-grandfather settled there in 1820. Both of my grandparents in the Civil War, and the one on my father's side was discharged, which was interesting to read his discharge, to come home, to make shoes for the Confederacy, his father being had a shoe plant. And he was discharged to come home and make shoes for the Confederacy. Failing to do so, he would be considered a deserter. So that was interesting, to read all that history. The price of shoes was $5 a pair for regular shoes and $5.50 for a pair of boots, according to the invoices that we have, during that period 00:02:00of time. But anyway, grew up in Coweta County and went to high school -- went to school in Coweta County. Graduated from Starr High School, which is located between Sharpsburg, Georgia, and Turin, Georgia. And from there, my first job, after completing high school, was payroll clerk, time keeper, for Barge Thompson Construction Company. Twenty-five dollars a week. I thought that was good. (laughs) So I did that for maybe a year. World War II was getting in full bloom, so a friend and I started taking a welding course so that we could go to work in Savannah, Georgia, at the shipyards.

LAPORTE: And the year you graduated from high school?

BEXLEY: Nineteen forty-one.

LAPORTE: Nineteen forty-one.

BEXLEY: So we went to work in Savannah as a pipe welder, so to speak, at the Southeastern Shipyard, Savannah, Georgia. They were building the merchant ships -- they called them merchant ships. But the following January, we were drafted into service and completed our boot training in Miami, Florida. That's where I learned to like Florida. And as that was -- went to Europe for three years. And upon discharge, on the way back, I met this guy on the boat who's father was a part of the IBEW, and he was wondering what I was going to do when I got home. And I said, "Well, I don't have any idea." He said, well, he was going 00:04:00into the electrical industry. Said, "You ought to come and try it." So when I got back here, I did. I went down and applied for an apprenticeship. And I was sent on a job at 50 cents an hour -- and I couldn't live on 50 cents an hour. So I went back in, so I got another job at 75 cents an hour. (laughs) Big raise.

WELDON: Yeah.

BEXLEY: So my brother-in-law was a lawyer, and they wanted me to go to law school. Now, I was going to apprenticeship school, but it wasn't the type that it is today, of course, and I wasn't getting a whole lot out of that. So I enrolled in law school -- Woodrow Wilson College of Law -- three nights a week. 00:05:00Night school. And I kept working on the job and going to law school. In 1948, I finished the law school, passed the bar, and all that time -- of course, in the meantime, I was -- joined the country club, the IBEW. That's what we call it the country club, because they did not take in the veterans back then. We were -- about 100 of us couldn't get in. So the international come and put us all in the IBEW 613 as of 1948. So that was where I started, then, but I continued 00:06:00in the law. After completing my Bachelor's degree, I wanted to get into labor law. So I took my Master's degree in labor law. And completion of my graduate school of labor law, I started representing IBEW in labor issues. I won several cases for them, and injunctions then was the growing problem we had then because, you know, Taft-Hartley was in full bloom. And they wasn't using National Labor Relations Board at that time; they were going to state courts, which is the easiest to get an injunction the next day. And my first case was in Gwinnett County, Lawrenceville, Georgia. Quite interesting case. I can go into a little detail because it was so -- it was fun. I told the business manager to 00:07:00send a picket to me before he put them out on the job, the office. But going back, I went to work for Morgan Stanford. I don't know if you've heard of Morgan Stanford or not.

LAPORTE: Yes, sir.

BEXLEY: Okay. I went in his office -- went to work with him -- associate -- because he had just resigned from the National Labor Relations Board.

LAPORTE: Mm-hmm.

BEXLEY: And -- which was great for me. There was only one other labor law firm in the city at that time, and that was Poole, Pierce, & Hall. Joe Jacobs was coming aboard at that time, but Poole, Pierce, & Hall was the prime representative of the Building Trades Unions. So I thought Morgan Stanford would be a good associate, so we started out with him in the labor law business. So the first case I had was at Lake Lanier -- the power house at Lake Lanier was 00:08:00non-union. And of course, Building Trades put up a picket and IBEW put up a picket, but before the IBEW, I wanted to talk to the picket. I was going to try something new, because the language on the picket signs had a lot to do with the injunction. So I told this fellow, says, "I want you to take a blank picket -- nothing on it." He said, "What good is that going to do?" I said, "Well, if they knew anything about union, they'd know what it meant." And he did this. He walked a picket with nothing on it. Of course, they got the injunction. Then the case came up in Lawrenceville, Gwinnett County, and the Poole, Pierce, & Hall was representing the Building Trades, and I was representing the IBEW. So when the judge called the IBEW up, of course, I called the picket up, put him on the stand. Said, "Did you bring the picket you was walking?" "Yes." 00:09:00"Would you show it to the judge." The judge looks at the picket; he says, "I don't see anything on the picket." I said, "Your honor, that is the issue." He shook his head. And the -- of course, the case went on until it was completed, and the Building Trades got enjoined, but the IBEW didn't (laughs) because it had a reason to.

LAPORTE: Yeah. (both laugh) Harry, do you remember what was on the Building Trades picket signs?

BEXLEY: Yes, it was "the operating engineers (inaudible) unfair". That's what they always put on the -- So I had several other cases. I was representing IBEW, and the membership, too. And I was a member of the executive board at that time, also. I had been elected to the executive board. I don't know why they 00:10:00would elect me to executive board; I was lawyer. But I had passed my journeyman's exam in the meantime, so I was a full-fledged journeyman as well. So I had the best of two worlds.

LAPORTE: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

BEXLEY: So I continued to practice law with Morgan Stanford until the business manager at that time was going to resign. He come to me and wanted to know if I would not come be the legal representative and the business manager of the 613. I said, "Well, I don't know. I've got it pretty good here. I like what I'm doing." He said, "Well, give it some thought." So two or three weeks, I thought about it, and we talked it over with the wife. It was a great challenge, a good place to put labor law into effect. And I finally agreed to do 00:11:00it. And the executive board appointed me legal counsel, business manager for the local union. So that was my entrance into the labor movement as far as the IBEW is concerned.

LAPORTE: And Harry, what year were you appointed as legal representative?

BEXLEY: Nineteen fifty-five.

LAPORTE: Nineteen fifty-five. And I just want to go back on a couple of issues. I'm interested in how you managed to go from one job at 50 cents an hour to another job at 75 cents an hour. You must have been --

BEXLEY: There was no set rate for the apprentices. The journeyman rate was only maybe two dollars and a half to three dollars an hour at that time, so -- There 00:12:00was no insurance, no pension, no anything at that time. But I managed to go to school, finished my law degree and all that stuff, so --

LAPORTE: Mm-hmm. And so you -- in 1948, you became -- you received your law degree, and you became --

BEXLEY: A member.

LAPORTE: -- a member --

BEXLEY: Of the IBEW.

LAPORTE: -- of IBEW.

BEXLEY: Mm-hmm.

LAPORTE: Well, 1948 was a --

BEXLEY: Great year.

LAPORTE: -- big year for Harry Bexley.

BEXLEY: Got married that year, too.

LAPORTE: Oh my.

BEXLEY: (laughs) Passed the Bar that year. Nineteen forty-eight was a great year.

LAPORTE: And so you practiced law with Morgan Stanford, which was to become the law firm of Stanford, Fagan, & Giolito --

BEXLEY: Later.

LAPORTE: Yes.

BEXLEY: Later.

LAPORTE: For seven years.

BEXLEY: Mm-hmm.

LAPORTE: And did you represent a variety of different clients?

BEXLEY: Yes, I had personal accounts --

LAPORTE: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

BEXLEY: -- and one or two, the AFL and the -- particularly IBEW. That was our number-one client.

LAPORTE: Mm-hmm.

BEXLEY: So, they had enough business to take care of.

LAPORTE: Uh-huh.

BEXLEY: And the -- we started out then. And that's where my labor -- as far as the labor part goes.

LAPORTE: Mm-hmm.

BEXLEY: I continued to do legal work for individuals, so to speak, counseling and -- wasn't all the time -- and then, of course, do legal work for the IBEW as well. Arbitration cases.

LAPORTE: Mm-hmm.

BEXLEY: And I employed the -- we only had probably 600 members, I guess, 700 members, at that time, and we'd just started in the manufacturing part of the 00:14:00electrical industry a little before that.

LAPORTE: Mm-hmm.

BEXLEY: We had maybe three companies that the IBEW represented of the manufacturing industry. So from there, we started organizing. We organized -- I employed several people, put them out there organizing. And we -- the big plant in -- the Westinghouse plant in Athens, Georgia, Square D, Federal Pacific, battery plants. Federal Pacific, General Times in Athens, Anaconda Copper.

LAPORTE: Mm-hmm.

BEXLEY: So we grew in that area, in that industry, probably, three thousand members. Had more of them than we did construction people because the construction industry did not want to organize; they didn't want to bring in anybody. But even with that, we did quite a bit in the construction industry as well. So we grew to -- I don't know what year -- but we got up to 5,000 members at one time, which was quite a feat during those periods of time.

LAPORTE: Mm-hmm.

BEXLEY: Now, during that period, we'll pick up with some of the things that we accomplished, I think, for the IBEW and the labor movement in particular. Atlanta Labor Council, because I was legal council for the labor -- Georgia State AFL-CIO and the Atlanta Labor Council, along with Judge Buckner, who was 00:16:00-- you've heard that name or not?

LAPORTE: I -- I have heard the name of Buckner, yes.

BEXLEY: Mm-hmm. He was on the -- uh, uh -- Workers' Comp board, and he and I were the co-councilors for the Georgia State and Atlanta Labor Council. So we -- that was interesting as well. But -- and we had tried to get a labor building but could never get the group together substantial enough to do the job. So I decided, said we need one, so the IBEW agreed that they would build a building. We were at 10th Street, then, which the Building Association owned. And -- so we 00:17:00started a building fund.

LAPORTE: Mm-hmm. And that 10th Street building, the carpenters had their offices there -- ?

BEXLEY: Yes.

LAPORTE: And it overlooked Piedmont Park.

BEXLEY: Correct, correct.

LAPORTE: And so IBEW 613 had offices as part of that 10th Street building?

BEXLEY: Correct, correct. We were in the Fulton High School. We moved from Fulton High School to there. We started out in the Lady Garment Workers' building down on Trinity, back in the early '40s. So we started buying up the property. They agreed that that area would be okay. And the first building -- the first site had to be for the building, because otherwise you wouldn't have enough parking space. So quietly -- Fulton County owned the building. It was apartment complex -- big apartment house -- they had taken in on taxes. And 00:18:00Charlie Brown -- you've heard of Charlie Brown --

LAPORTE: Yes, sir.

BEXLEY: -- was the chairman of the commissioners. And I went to Charlie and told him our plan. And he liked the idea of cleaning up the whole mess down there, so he said he'd sponsor a resolution to sell the building to the IBEW, which he did. And he called me on the phone and said, "Well, you got your building now. When you going to pay up?" I said, "What price did you get?" He said, "I got you a good price." (laughs) I forget -- it wasn't a whole lot. But I snapped it up right quick.

LAPORTE: And of course we're referring to the area that is the --

BEXLEY: IBEW building.

LAPORTE: -- the current site of the --

BEXLEY: Current site.

LAPORTE: -- IBEW building at 501 Pulliam Street, which is just across from Turner Field, adjacent to the Downtown Connector in Atlanta.

BEXLEY: Correct.

LAPORTE: And Harry, did the purchase then, did it constitute the IBEW office building, or did the parcel of land include the auditorium and the Apprenticeship Training Center?

BEXLEY: Oh, no. That was -- all of them was separate 50-foot lots with a alleyway running from downtown all the way to Georgia Avenue.

LAPORTE: Mm-hmm.

BEXLEY: A ten-foot alley. And let's see, we had -- must have been ten other parcels in the two blocks. We told no one what we were doing. I never -- I'll never forget going down to the jailhouse and getting the deed signed from one of the lots. And the -- where the auditorium is was a rib shack. (laughs) So we 00:20:00bought that one. And we only had one whole lot in the whole group, after putting it together, and it was a Jewish lady. She lived in Miami. She would not sell. She said, "I'm going build a high-rise on that lot." I said, "Well, ma'am, it's only 50 foot, and you can't build anything on a 50-foot lot anymore. You can't be zoned." You could never convince her of that, so -- She finally died, and the daughter was the executor of the estate, and she sold it right off. So we -- after we got -- well, we got that after the building. That was the last lot. We left it just like it was, and all around it -- built around it. And we had a drive-in bank, a C&S -- had a drive-in bank at that time.

LAPORTE: Hm.

BEXLEY: Which was real successful bank. Had a drive in, and in a good location. So they was a great tenant. And we started a building. We -- a lot of naysayers around about building that kind of a building, and -- but we -- Had good relations with Sam Caldwell, commissioner of labor, which was a great guy -- I guess one of the most astute politicians we had in the state at that time, including the governor and the rest of them. He was quite the character. And he told me, says, "When you complete the building, I'll take all the space that you don't want for the labor people." So that was quite a good deal for us. And he kept his promise. We completed the building, and we had several other 00:22:00labor organizations that took the office there. Montague, who was the president of Georgia State AFL-CIO, I don't remember (inaudible). He told me, says, "Now, I'll move in the building if you give me the northeast corner on the fifth floor." I said, "Why do you want that?" He said, "I only wants -- I want where I can see the capitol. Maybe I can watch what they're doing." I said, "Well, it's a deal." And we kept that space open for the Georgia State AFL-CIO. That was originally our -- IBEW's -- site. But I says, "Well, we can take the second floor, because, you know, beggars can't be choosers." So we gave that to the Georgia State AFL-CIO, and they still have it.

LAPORTE: Mm-hmm.

BEXLEY: Been there all these years. So. We paid the building -- paid the 00:23:00building off probably in three, four years -- a million and some thousand dollars. So that was as far as the building is concerned.

LAPORTE: Mm-hmm. Do you remember the year that you first acquired the land in that area?

BEXLEY: It was in '65. Mm-hmm. Thereabouts.

LAPORTE: Yes, sir. So it was about the same time the Atlanta Braves came to Atlanta --

BEXLEY: Exactly right.

LAPORTE: -- from Milwaukee.

BEXLEY: Exactly right. And the -- of course, we had trouble holding because the state wanted the property after that, MARTA wanted a station -- they wanted to put a MARTA station there and all that stuff, but we would not agree to. The state finally condemned part of it to build a bridge going across there by the 00:24:00building, after a bitter fight. But we didn't get what we ought to for it because you never do on a condemned problem. But -- and then to complete the building -- our apprenticeship school was going to the Atlanta -- Atlanta Apprenticeship School over on Stewart Avenue. And I'd always meet with the apprentices when they'd finished and asked the group one time, what changes would they like to have in their training situation. And they said, "We'd like to have our own building where we could have our own techniques and whatnot that we don't have access to over there." And I said, "Well, let me check it out." And we had two million dollars in the kitty, and I told the officers 00:25:00we were going to build our school for the apprentices. And that's when we built the school building. That was in probably 1970, maybe, or a little before that. So -- We leased it to the Apprenticeship Training Committee, which is a separate entity from the IBE -- from the IBEW and NECA, who had the parting rights. So we got probably over $1,000 a month rent. I says, "To keep that rent in education, I want to establish an apprenticeship -- I mean, a scholarship fund." And that's when our scholarship fund started, was from 00:26:00the rent from the school building to the Atlanta ATC.

LAPORTE: Mm-hmm.

BEXLEY: And we would have enough to have ten scholarships a year. Now, we included the management -- contractors' children as well, as long as they'd met the requirements.

LAPORTE: Mm-hmm.

BEXLEY: And I guess the scholarship program is still in effect.

LAPORTE: Yes, it is.

BEXLEY: Which must have been -- ooh, I don't know how many thousands of dollars, but it's been quite a --

LAPORTE: Mm-hmm.

BEXLEY: Thinking that was quite a feat, I think, for the IBEW to set up that scholarship fund.

LAPORTE: Mm-hmm.

BEXLEY: Uh. Now, my mentor, starting out, in the labor movement was Harry Van Arsdale. You've heard of him in New York City?

LAPORTE: Yes, sir. Mm-hmm.

BEXLEY: And I quit -- I spent quite a bit of time at Local 3, New York City. And he took a quite interested in the IBEW in Atlanta, Georgia. And we tried to 00:27:00probably use Local 3 as a pattern to follow, as a lot of locals did.

WELDON: Well, sure.

BEXLEY: So, which was a great help to all of us.

LAPORTE: Mm-hmm.

BEXLEY: And he employed a lot of the IBEW people when there was no work around a lot of time, but that was second home to the 613, was Local 3. And we maintained that relationship until his death, and still do, I guess. He was, I'd say, one of the greatest labor leaders we've had in this country – bar none -- The only problem he had, he was about 30, 40 years ahead of schedule, so to speak.

LAPORTE: Mm-hmm.

BEXLEY: His ideas and everything was what you dream about, but he put them into 00:28:00effect. And it was quite interesting stories he had, how he ever took over Local 3, which we won't go into details, but it was quite a story --

LAPORTE: Mm-hmm.

BEXLEY: -- that it would be interesting for it to be on the record.

LAPORTE: Mr. Von -- Van Arsdale, of course, the Van Arsdale Scholarship is named after him --

BEXLEY: Yes.

LAPORTE: -- and he also established the joint program so that every IBEW Local 3 apprentice would also earn an Associate degree in labor studies from colleges and universities in New York City.

BEXLEY: Exactly, and I tried to get that here, but I could never get the Georgia State to agree to it.

LAPORTE: Mm-hmm.

BEXLEY: Because I thought that would have been a great step, because our apprenticeship school was second-to-none, because we patterned it after several others that was real successful. But could never accomplish that, and that was 00:29:00one of my failings, I guess, that we couldn't put that across, because the university system did not -- was not that close to --

LAPORTE: Mm-hmm.

BEXLEY: -- the labor movement, I guess. But we kept the apprenticeship school up to date on all of the new techniques that developed in the meantime. I don't know if they're going to nan -- what, nanotechnologies now?

LAPORTE: Yes. (laughs)

BEXLEY: I can't see them.

LAPORTE: (laughs) That's right. Well, the apprenticeship program at IBEW 613 is seen as a model for the entire Building Trades, and graduates of that apprenticeship program are quickly hired by union contractors for their skills, their ability, their dependability. And so that is a great deal to be proud of 00:30:00in terms of turning out thousands of highly skilled electricians in the Atlanta market.

BEXLEY: That's true. It's true. And they -- and they still do, I hope.

LAPORTE: Yes, uh --

BEXLEY: I hope they continue, and I hope the economy will continue to where we can continue to have that kind of training program and keep it updated, so…

LAPORTE: Mm-hmm. Well, as you reflect on this record of having the foresight to build a complex that included the office building, the IBEW auditorium, which is referred to as "Labor's Headquarters in Atlanta, Georgia," and the IBEW apprenticeship program, you think of the foresight on building or the foresight with your apprenticeship program and the high standard it achieved and 00:31:00continues, in terms of the legacy of Harry Bexley.

BEXLEY: Well, I always contended that the apprenticeship program was the most important factor of the whole setup of the IBEW, because after all, without them, down the road, we were nothing. And it was a hard job, way back on it, to get the employers to recognize that situation. They were the -- uh -- the drag on the whole system because they didn't want to see their employees having more knowledge about the industry than they had, which that was being the case, because they were getting the up -- the ongoing techniques that they didn't get before they started in business. But we finally convinced them, and they started financing the school, and they finally saw where they -- it was paying off great dividends of having highly trained people. And I used to chide them. I 00:32:00says, "I should be a contractor myself. I should get a job and roll up the plans, and hand them to a foreman, and 'Here, go put this job in.' And that's what you people are doing as a result of the training that electricians are getting today. You don't have to worry about the fine points on a -- on the job, because they've been trained to put a job in." And I think the IBEW's been very successful all over the country. They've -- I remember -- Jim, you might remember -- John Glenn speaking at the convention where he praised the IBEW for the job they did on the satellite that sent him to the moon.

LAPORTE: Mm-hmm.

BEXLEY: Which I thought was a great commendation for the IBEW. So going back, 00:33:00we'll pick up on the benefit program that they might have with the IBEW. We did not have any insurance or pension, and that was a hard job to start. None of the Building Trades had insurance or pension. And the National Contractors' Association, some of them had their own private plans for their employees. And I used to chide them, I said, "If you have it for them, why can't we have it for all -- everybody." Well, they wanted to keep theirs because the people wanted to work for them because they had it. So I started the program to put in a pension plan and a health and welfare plan. We bogged down in negotiations. And we had quite a number of independent contractors that didn't belong to the national association. So, I being a lawyer, I called a group of the independents 00:34:00together. I said, "I want to incorporate y'all into a separate association." They all agreed. So we developed the Atlanta Electrical Contractors' Association -- independent association. Now, you can imagine how that went over with the rest of the employers. And said, "Now, we will sign your contract for giving your employees a pension and health and welfare insurance." And that sent the national NECA -- boy, they went into orbit. The national IBEW went into orbit. They all came to Atlanta: "What's going on?" So they met in a hotel, and they finally come out and said the two groups -- see, I'll get back to that in a minute -- what it's going to take to 00:35:00settle this thing, because I threatened to take the bargaining rights away from the NECA contractors. And they finally agreed at that meeting, "We'll go with the pension plan and the health and welfare plan." And that was a starting of -- that was the first I guess health and welfare and pension plan we had in the Building Trades, except the plumbers had a pension plan -- local, but they didn't have insurance. So to say, general contractors didn't like that. But nevertheless, that's the start of the health and welfare industry, pension industry. Then it spread.

LAPORTE: In what year, Harry, do you remember, approximately, that this meeting took place that you had --

BEXLEY: It was in -- uh -- uh -- I'd say '64, '65.

LAPORTE: Uh-huh.

BEXLEY: Maybe '63. In that area.

LAPORTE: Sure.

BEXLEY: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

LAPORTE: So the, the early '60s.

BEXLEY: Mm-hmm.

LAPORTE: And so you came into office, and now we purchased land for the future of IBEW's facilities; we have established a model apprenticeship program that still goes on today; and now in the early 1960s -- um -- through your planning, were able to establish a health and welfare and pension fund that continues to provide benefits today, some 43 years later.

BEXLEY: Oh, yes. They have improved on the pension plan. They have changed it 00:37:00somewhat. Before, in '86, the economy was not on the best of solid ground, and I become sort of fearful that -- what might happen to the pension plan. So we put it out for bid. The board of trustees -- I convinced the board of trustees that perhaps maybe we should put this out for bid for an insurance company. And we did. We -- uh -- put the plan out for bid. The interest rate there, thanks to President Carter, it was the highest it was ever in the history. We sold the pension plan to this insurance company for a 10% return, increased the benefits up to 20-something dollars a month per year's service, which was great, with widows' benefits, and disability benefits, and the whole works. And that's where it was when I left. And -- uh, uh -- they, since then, have transferred it 00:38:00to John Hancock, and they're administering that pension plan. Now they have a, I guess you might say, a 401(k) instead of the insurance pension plan -- which is good. They've still got a good plan. The old people's -- a lot of the workers, they still are covered under the old insurance plan. It provides a good living wage for them -- a living condition for all of our retirees.

LAPORTE: Mm-hmm.

BEXLEY: Which I'm glad of.

LAPORTE: Yes.

BEXLEY: When I went in there, they didn't have anything. We had $50-a-month pension and no insurance, and that was the extent of it. We had a death benefit fund -- two dollars a death -- which was started when they -- we had a great calamity at Kraft Cheese plant. We lost five electricians, and I don't know 00:39:00how many other craft-men was lost there. A bulldozer hit a column and caused a collapse of a roof, killing those people and injuring quite a few others. And we started a death benefit fund at that time, and that was in 1949 that that occurred.

LAPORTE: Mm-hmm. (coughs) Excuse me.

BEXLEY: I guess that's the worst disaster we've had, as far as construction death, in the whole construction industry, as far as I know.

LAPORTE: Mm-hmm.

BEXLEY: And the -- of course, that's still in effect.

LAPORTE: Mm-hmm.

BEXLEY: We had to, because the people didn't have anything. They collected something from the third-party injuries -- from it as a result of, but then we -- that's when we -- that was later changed. It was increased later on down 00:40:00the road. Now, some other activities that Jim is aware of, that -- I was elected to the IEC -- that's the International Executive Council -- which is part of the executive board of the IBEW -- national -- international -- in 1970, I believe, Seattle, Washington. And we, along with the help of Harry Van Arsdale, our national pension fund was 1% -- national was, which provided I think $60 a month at that time--$3 a month per year's service, I believe it was, and maybe -- mm, in that area. Maybe it could have been more. Not much 00:41:00more. And Harry Van Arsdale and I used to chide the president of the IBEW then, "Why should the people like IBEW and NECA contractors have such a small pension plan?" So we -- that -- that -- we'd do that at lunchtime with him, just he and I. (laughs) Because he -- Harry Van Arsdale was a nagger. (laughs) So we finally convinced them that we should go for the national -- increase in the national pension fund. So at our -- we -- we'd have a annual meeting, trustees' meeting, of the NECF, it was known then -- the National Electrical Contractors' Fund -- and we was able to convince the contractor side of the board to go for increasing up to 3%. Now, that was quite a chore to do. And it 00:42:00-- I enjoyed going over the country, though, selling it. And I did. I never run across but two outfits -- one of them's in Ohio -- that was really objected to it. The California, because our rates was so high, they objected to it. But one district couldn't over come the rest of the IBEW, so it was put into effect, which I thought was -- at the time, I think we had a probably -- mm, not no more than eight or ten million dollars in the fund. But in a few years, it grew to -- when I left --

WELDON: Ten billion plus.

BEXLEY: -- ten billion plus, yes, billion fund.

WELDON: (inaudible).

LAPORTE: Ten billion with a B?

BEXLEY: Yeah, B, B. One of the biggest pension funds in the country. And the -- 00:43:00today, I think -- what's the rate today? Twenty-four?

WELDON: Thirty-three, I think it is.

BEXLEY: Thirty-three dollars a month --

WELDON: Yeah, and it's been the same for a while.

BEXLEY: -- per year's service. And they can retire at 62 with full benefits.

WELDON: Early retirement is 6% reduction for each year. No, wait a minute, 62 now is normal retirement.

BEXLEY: Mm-hmm. Normal, yeah.

LAPORTE: And Harry, you negotiated these improvements in pension funds for a -- were they jointly-administered funds?

BEXLEY: Jointly, yes, yes -- jointly administered. Trustees.

LAPORTE: And so they were all -- subject to approval of the trustees made up of the electrical contractors and the --

BEXLEY: The IBEW.

LAPORTE: -- IBEW.

BEXLEY: Mm-hmm.

LAPORTE: And so you had to come up with grounds, reasons, and convincing arguments in which to have this action taken, and you were able to do so not 00:44:00only locally but nation-wide.

BEXLEY: I was part of it. We had -- we had a good team, and we had -- uh -- the president of NECA was a former member of the IBEW.

WELDON: Is that Autry?

BEXLEY: Autry.

WELDON: Yeah.

BEXLEY: Autry. Great guy. He was one on the -- he was president of NECA --

WELDON: Buck Autry.

BEXLEY: -- national NECA. Huh?

WELDON: He went by Buck.

BEXLEY: Buck Autry.

WELDON: Buck Autry, yeah.

BEXLEY: He could pick the guitar, too, (laughter) and he was quite an entertainer. But he says, "I'll make the motion if you'll second it." That was at our meeting that we had -- Pillard was the president of NECA (note 3) then. But I got chastised, but I didn't care. He made a motion that we do -- raise it for 2% (Note 4) -- there's a lot of people don't know about this -- but I seconded that motion right off. Well, I made the motion, and he 00:45:00seconded it. And the contractor (inaudible) like that. But we -- after a -- lot of discussion, it was carried. And -- and each one of the IEC members was assigned a district to sell. You had to sell a membership as well as the contractors. He had to sell the contractors, and we had to sell the IBEW on taking the increases that it might have coming to put it into that NEBF fund. Of course, we took ours -- here in Atlanta -- we withdrew -- we withheld 2% from the increase that we got for the wages; we put it into the NECF fund. The contractors took advantage of the 2% and reduced our --

WELDON: And I would insert there that those are some bad years in Florida, for instance. We had extended our agreement with no increases, and yet because of 00:46:00the NEBF, we got a 2% increase the first of the year in the mid of a one-year contract which we had extended for a year, which is like 2% just fell off the tree. Now, one of the things they used to sell it, though, was they did put standardized shift work in agreements all over the country. There were a lot of locals that already had that, so it wasn't like it was an across-the-board big thing. And then, even funnier, there's some of the -- the other reward that they gave themselves was theoretically, all of the contractors would be paying into a 1% into NECA nationwide. That was found to be illegal, (laughs) and they lost it.

LAPORTE: Hm.

WELDON: So we got the 2% literally for nothing. Yeah, yeah.

BEXLEY: That was quite a feat. That was a big --

WELDON: Oh.

BEXLEY: -- nationwide program in -- And another program that we (inaudible) 00:47:00for the IEC was a national (pause) -- what do you call the program? Where we take our money from one -- ? What did we call that?

LAPORTE: Where they transfer funds or --

BEXLEY: Yes, they --

LAPORTE: -- did they convert? Was it a conversion?

BEXLEY: They took the -- well, wherever you worked didn't matter; the funds would follow the guy.

LAPORTE: Yes.

BEXLEY: Go back to his home local.

WELDON: Oh yeah, portability.

BEXLEY: Portability.

WELDON: Not portability -- uh -- reciprocity.

BEXLEY: Reciprocity.

WELDON: Portability is another big thing, by the way, but reciprocity.

BEXLEY: Recip -- yeah. That was a great step because there was so much transitory --

WELDON: Huge.

BEXLEY: -- work between the different local unions, different cities and everything, they would leave, and they would lose that home --

LAPORTE: Mm-hmm.

BEXLEY: -- the health and welfare and their pension plans at home while working in another area. So that was a hard sell.

LAPORTE: Let me just interject a couple things. One -- Mr. Jim Weldon, business manager, Ft. Lauderdale, Florida, is here with us, and the prior comments about the 2% increase were from Mr. Weldon. As we look at reciprocity, in the electrical industry, there are what's referred to as 'travelers,' where there is a big job where they're in need of skilled electricians, be it the building of the World Congress Center here in Atlanta or a new building in New York City. A call would go out for travelers, and then people from different locals throughout the United States would go to where the call was from.

BEXLEY: Correct.

LAPORTE: And so prior to this policy change of reciprocity, people could 00:49:00possibly lose the contributions and coverage of the health and welfare fund from their home local. Is that the situation?

BEXLEY: That's correct. That is absolutely correct. Mm-hmm.

LAPORTE: So this policy change allowed the individual electricians to retain their coverage and what they had earned --

BEXLEY: Correct. Mm-hmm.

WELDON: And maintained your health and welfare, too. Very important.

BEXLEY: That was a hard sell --

WELDON: Tremendous (inaudible).

BEXLEY: -- because a lot of the local unions take that float from the travelers in there. So. That was one great thing, I think, that international, while I was on the board, we accomplished. Let's see, and there was another program that we -- wasn't it another program that we put into effect? Reciprocity, and then 00:50:00-- (pause)

WELDON: I can't think of any others as significant as the ones we just discussed.

BEXLEY: Mm-hmm.

LAPORTE: Well, Harry, I want to ask you about a couple of things, in terms of Georgia, and then we'll certainly get back to any of those other larger policies. But Harry Bexley is reported to have called a meeting when he was business manager of IBEW 613, and he had everyone in that auditorium and told all of those assembled electricians that it is our policy at Local 613 to make sure that we offer a good day's work for a full day's wages. And people 00:51:00still talk about that 30 years later as being one of the keys to IBEW 613's success and for establishing its reputation for productivity and quality. Can you talk about your role in that session, and how you insisted that IBEW 613 members meet those high standards?

BEXLEY: I'm glad you brought that up. We -- um -- we worked pretty close with the contractors' representative -- the chapter manager -- and he and I had good relationship on any of the programs that we established -- have always worked together on those programs. And we had started a weekly note out to all of the employees, and we called it "Charlie Channel Locks," by Chuck Perry 00:52:00Pliers. It was later named by the -- some of the naysayers, "Charlie 'Sham-a-locks.'" (laughs) But it was a pair of pliers that we had -- we patented it. We had a little emblem, you might see him with the pair of pliers, and that was the Perry Pliers note every week, we'd put it in the envelope. And as a result, we -- we established a fair days' work for a fair day's pay.

BEXLEY: So that kept the employees that didn't attend the meetings up to date on what was going on in the electrical industry. Communication is a great asset to any organization, is communication. And there's another program that -- 00:53:00(long pause) Mm --

LAPORTE: You negotiated contracts, both wages and benefits, etc., but you faced the challenge of having union contractors accepted in a very competitive market here in Atlanta and in the South. Can you comment on some of the programs and initiatives that you used?

BEXLEY: Yes. We set up different rates for different type of work --

LAPORTE: Mm-hmm.

BEXLEY: -- which was a ongoing program. It wasn't quite accepted with the 00:54:00international -- about us doing this. But of course, we lived in a different area, in a right-to-work state, and our conditions down South were not like they were up in the North, and we had to do things so that our employees could be competitive. So we always tried to keep our employers in a competitive position. We set up different rates, like the residential rates, and the maintenance rates, and whatnot, that they could compete. Reporting time and travel time, we did away with, and -- in order to compete. You want to stop that for a minute? (inaudible)

LAPORTE: Yeah, sure. (pause) Harry, you served as council for the Georgia State AF of L -- excuse me, both the Georgia AFL, and then you were there and present at the establishment of the Georgia State AF-of-L-CIO. Can you talk about your role as a labor official in the Georgia labor movement?

BEXLEY: Well, I thought it was a great day when the AFL-CIO merged. We were like two separate organizations -- we were two separate -- politically and otherwise. Generally speaking, most of our politics was divided, which was not good for either side. But it brought together the family that it should have 00:56:00been -- should have never split. But nevertheless, it did. In the present day, it's fixing to do the same thing. But in Brunswick, Georgia -- I don't know -- I forget the year, the merger took place with the labor movement. And there was quite a convention. It was a lot of horse trading with the officers to lead the Georgia State AFL-CIO. And the back rooms at night was quite lively, and the -- we had the -- had to reach a consensus of dividing up the officials of the Georgia AF -- AFL-CIO with each other. And once we reached that consensus, it was not hard to complete the merger. I think we all agreed to support their 00:57:00candidate, and they agreed to support our candidate that we agreed on. So I forget now who the -- who was elected -- it's been so long ago. I don't know whether it was Bill Settey -- does that name ring a bell? Um -- we'll have to do the research, but --

LAPORTE: Sure. Mm-hmm.

BEXLEY: We started our political program there, and we started the Labor's League for Political Education, which was a great step forward -- the LLPE. Had a full-time director. I think she was a machinist, by the way, that headed up that LLPE. They was -- started a big registration program, get out the vote 00:58:00program, telephone programs. And we really had a -- I think a great political arm of the Georgia State AFL-CIO, and that was the upcoming of our political strength. However, my representing the AFL-CIO, we had a meeting -- I'll tell you a little story about Mayor Hartsfield.

LAPORTE: Yes.

BEXLEY: Remember that name?

LAPORTE: Yes, of course.

BEXLEY: He had done something that the Atlanta Labor Council didn't like, so I went with the group to meet with Mayor Hartsfield. And Bill Settey, I think, was the president of the Building Trades, probably. And we went over, and we had 00:59:00a meeting with Mayor Hartsfield. And Bill Settey got pretty feisty with the mayor. And you'd have to know Hartsfield; he didn't take anything off anybody. He was on his own. He says, "Mr. Setter, let me give you a little -- uh -- story here." Says, "You're boasting about your -- you go beat me in your next election and all that." He said, "Let me tell you some facts." He said, "We've done some research, too. Half your membership don't live in the city of Atlanta, and the half that lives in Atlanta are not registered to vote. And the half that is registered to vote ain't going to vote like you tell them to." I'll never forget that.

WELDON: God protect us from people who look and check the record.

BEXLEY: That was quite a story.

WELDON: That rings so true in many places.

BEXLEY: It does, and it still rings true.

LAPORTE: Mm-hmm, yeah.

BEXLEY: But we had quite a few successes. President Carter, when he was Governor Carter -- I think he did a great job as governor. And I always enjoyed meeting -- going in with the bills -- I learned that the first meeting -- well, then, you better go home and do your homework. And it didn't take long for me to know what I had to do when you go before Governor Carter, because he could pick a bill to death right there, and he can ask some questions -- I mean, pointed questions -- what governor would have gone through those bills and asked such questions? But I learned quick that I had to do my homework before we went in to talk with him. So Georgia's a unique state. Today we're -- I guess 01:01:00we're 75% Republican. But in true spirit -- in true -- way back when, I think we had a lot of closet Democrats that were Republicans way back. Herb Mabry used to chide them and says that we should start supporting the Republicans and forget some of your Democrats. And what he was saying was so true. We had -- still had a lot of solid Democrat people that really represented the Democratic Party as we would like to know it. But even with a full Democrat Party over the years, labor did not achieve very much. When I first started to -- when I was 01:02:00practicing law, I think the rate was raised up to maybe $25 a week of service, as in the Workers Compensation and unemployment was, mm, probably less than that a week. And we couldn't get the South Georgia politicians to agree to raise it. And we had George T. Smith, who was a great statesman, was one of our -- we developed him into a great spokesman, I think, for the working men and women in this state. He took the bull by the horns, and with several other 01:03:00representatives we had, we were able to make a lot of significant changes in both the unemployment law and the Workers Compensation law. I don't -- it started from there, and it's up to where it is now, I guess. We've got increases over the years. But -- Mm.

LAPORTE: Well, I want to ask you about some of the elected officials that you had dealings with, and just to get some of Harry Bexley's experience. You mentioned Governor Carter, and of course, he was preceded by Governor Carl Sanders. And so I'm just curious about Harry Bexley's evaluation of some of -- of Georgia's governors.

BEXLEY: Well, Governor Sanders was an okay guy. Uh -- we had good relationship 01:04:00with Governor Sanders. And of course he -- uh -- Carter defeated Sanders, which it didn't matter with us, at that point in time, which one got elected because both of them were about the same, equal, as far as labor was concerned.

LAPORTE: Mm-hmm.

BEXLEY: But now Carl Sanders did not get out, roll up his sleeves, and work the people like Carter did. Carter was out every morning with his shirt sleeves and hand-billing plants and job sites and whatnot, and it paid off for him, and he was elected. And of course, Carl got the name Cuff Link Carl. (laughs) And the -- that didn't bode well at the election time. (laughter) So the working people in the state, I think, voted for Carter.

LAPORTE: For Jimmy Carter.

BEXLEY: Jimmy Carter.

LAPORTE: Yes, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

BEXLEY: And of course, we had Lester Maddox. I'll tell you a story about 01:05:00Lester Maddox. He was -- well, some in our society did not like Lester, and rightfully so, maybe, in some areas, but then some areas, they were off-key. Uh -- while he was governor, he employed more minority people than any other governor before him -- a large number on state patrol, a lot of them in government -- state government offices -- and whatnot. And -- uh -- we was locked down with a contract at Westinghouse, in Athens, and been on for about 30 days. I had employed all of the men on construction jobs, and they didn't want to go back to work, because they were making more working construction than for electricians at this transformer plant in Athens, Westinghouse. So -- uh -- 01:06:00Governor Maddox says, "We've got to settle that contract." I says, "Okay, what do you suggest?" He said, "Bring them up in my office, and we'll settle it." So we got the whole group -- the negotiating -- management and labor both in his office. He says, "I'm locking the door, and we're not leaving here until this contract is settled." That's Lester Maddox. He said, "I'll send out and get the chicken or hamburgers, whichever one you want." (laughs) And that they did. But about midnight, he had settled that contract. That was Lester Maddox.

LAPORTE: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

BEXLEY: So I thought that was quite something for him. And I had the pleasure of -- we went to Israel with Lester on the first trip he had going out of the United States. And he was quite an entertainer. He fascinated those people over 01:07:00there riding that bicycle backwards. (laughter) They couldn't -- they had never seen anybody like that. And -- uh, uh -- he really was an entertainer. Quite a guy -- and his wife as well. We en -- we enjoyed the trip very much, with a group -- him leading a group, and -- I learned a lot about him during that trip. And -- and on our Building Trades -- we used to have a Building Trades meeting once a year in Washington, and one of the delegates would meet with the senators and the congressmen up there to discuss the --

WELDON: We still do. (coughs)

BEXLEY: -- labor groups. And Senator Russell was our senior senator here then, and I guess Herman Talmadge was the other senator at the same time -- but the 01:08:00C-47 was being talked about developing at that time because of the Cold War at that time. There were -- none of our group wanted to go meet with Senator Russell. But I persuaded -- I had a good relationship with Senator Russell. We went into the shrine together with a cold glass, and I had good rapport with Senator Russell. And I persuaded president -- James Moore, I believe he was the president of the Atlanta Labor Council, or the state -- I believe he was secretary of state AFL-CIO. He agreed he'd go with me and meet Senator Russell. So we went down to his office, and he was glad to see us, and open arms, and very congenial. And we was in his office, and his secretary come on the line, and she said, "Secretary of Defense McNamara was on the phone; 01:09:00should I put him through?" In his gruff voice, if you ever knew him, he says, "Put him through." And of course, we couldn't hear McNamara's voice, but we knew what he must have said. And Senator Russell replied; he said, "If that C-47 is built, it's going to be built in Marietta, Georgia. Lockheed will build it." (laughter) In that terms. So he's -- told us, "Well, we don't know whether the plane is going to be built, but if it's built, it's going" -- he told us that. He said, "It's going to be built in Marietta." And it was. And it was -- uh -- contracted out to the big edition up there to build a C-47 was non-union. And they was on recess when they just had let the contract -- he was in Winder, Georgia. And I told George Caudelle -- 01:10:00you know George Caudelle.

LAPORTE: Mm-hmm.

BEXLEY: He was president of the Building Trades.

LAPORTE: Yes. Mm-hmm.

BEXLEY: Well, I said, "George, let's go talk to Senator Russell." "He ain't going to help us." I said, "Let's go talk to him anyway." So we rode to Winder, Georgia -- and we called him, set up the meeting, glad to come. Went over there, and we, you know, had good conversation, side talks, you know, and all this stuff, and we told him our mission. He said, "Well, I don't know if I can be of any help to you or not, but you know I had -- when that contract was drawn up, it had to be done real fast, and I put a terrific" -- he put -- "terrific penalty cause in that contract -- several thousand dollars a day for every day it's not completed on schedule." And we talked on. And on the way home, George said, "I told you he wasn't going to tell us 01:11:00anything." I said, "George, you must not have been listening. You didn't hear him say he put that several-thousand-dollar-a-day penalty on that job that wasn't completed?" "Yeah." I said, "Wasn't he telling you something? He told me something. Let's go home and do it." And they put a Building Trades ticket up. The next day, or the next week, and this brings the job up (laughter) as a result of that big penalty from that job not being completed. And the rest of the job went 100% union. (laughter) I thought that that was quite a treat from Senator Russell.

LAPORTE: But again, I'm seeing a pattern of Harry Bexley, and you seeing -- uh -- creatively using either blank picket signs or (laughs) pickets to achieve 01:12:00a goal that all comes back to the quality and productivity of the skilled trained electrician.

BEXLEY: Correct, correct.

LAPORTE: Mm-hmm. Back to our -- our governors for a moment. Was it Governor Busbee that then followed Governor Maddox? George Busbee of Albany?

BEXLEY: Probably. Yes, yes, mm-hmm.

LAPORTE: And then --

BEXLEY: He was okay. He was okay. I was a -- I think -- he pointed me to the -- you know, we had a judiciary study committee --

LAPORTE: Mm-hmm.

BEXLEY: -- to change the judicious section of the constitution. And I was honored to be appointed on that committee, along with George T. Smith and Dorothy Beasley -- you remember?

LAPORTE: Mm-hmm, yes I do. Mm-hmm.

BEXLEY: Dorothy Beasley. Then -- uh -- mm -- I think Snow of the Pardon and 01:13:00Parole Board was on the committee. There was about five of us on the committee. And that's how the judges got to be nonpartisan -- and I made the motion. I tried to get the district attorneys included in it, but I could not get that. But George T. Smith and I went together, and with our input, we were able to get the election of judges on nonpartisan basis --

LAPORTE: Mm-hmm.

BEXLEY: -- which I thought was good.

LAPORTE: Mm-hmm.

BEXLEY: And they represent both parties, so they should not be-- have to be partisan to be elected.

LAPORTE: Governor Busbee is reported to have appointed a number of labor officials to different boards and commissions during his administration.

BEXLEY: Uh -- I'm sure he must have, yes. Red Etheridge --

LAPORTE: Yes.

BEXLEY: -- was appointed by him on the labor board.

LAPORTE: Mm-hmm.

BEXLEY: And of course, he reappointed Carter -- when the workers -- director of Workers Compensation Board -- when Judge Buckner died, he'd been the -- or retired. I guess he retired.

LAPORTE: Mm-hmm.

BEXLEY: Governor Carter called me and wanted us to make recommendations to fill the job. And I thought and thought, and I finally -- didn't really come across any that we had -- Don Knowles, member IBEW, was a lawyer, district attorney down in Henry County. I says, "I bet Don would like that job." And I called 01:15:00him, and ooh, that was a great call for him. And the -- we called President -- uh -- Governor Carter. And I think Don may had been on the Legislature. When we got him appointed -- Don Knowles -- as a director, and that was a great appointment for us -- and the state as well, because Don did a good job.

LAPORTE: Mm-hmm.

BEXLEY: A long time.

LAPORTE: Yes, sir.

BEXLEY: He retired from there.

LAPORTE: Yes. And that tradition continues today. Ronnie Conner is IBEW electrician and a lawyer who is an attorney with the Workers Compensation Board.

BEXLEY: Right, correct. And I got him accepted into Georgia State University. (laughter) He couldn't get in -- they wouldn't let him in -- and I went to 01:16:00-- was it -- who was the president of the --

LAPORTE: Noah Langdale?

BEXLEY: Langdale, mm-hmm. It was through him that we got Conner accepted in the law school here.

LAPORTE: So that tradition that you started of an IBEW Local 613 electrician also being a lawyer has carried on for over 40 years.

BEXLEY: Correct, correct. (laughter)

LAPORTE: And then, of course, then Governor Joe Frank Harris and Governor Zell Miller, Governor Roy Barnes, and our current governor.

BEXLEY: Zell Miller, we thought was the greatest thing since sliced bread. You know the Griffin-Landrum Bill --

LAPORTE: Mm-hmm.

BEXLEY: -- came to play during all of this, which increased the veracity against the labor and caused us a lot of heartaches. And Zell Miller was -- well, I don't know whether he was a senator or whatnot -- but we wanted to run 01:17:00him against -- uh -- Landrum up in that district. That's where Zell was from. And we raised money like you wouldn't believe. I even put a staff full time putting up signs. (laughs)

LAPORTE: Mm-hmm.

BEXLEY: And stole postage stamps, so to speak. We got donations of postage stamps to put out mail outs for him. We did everything we could to -- some legal, and some illegal – (laughs) anything we could get by with that helped him get elected. But they stole the election, as far as I'm concerned, at the ballot box --

LAPORTE: Mm-hmm.

BEXLEY: --up in North Georgia. They wasn't watching the ballot boxes, and he 01:18:00lost by a few votes. And of course, then we supported him in his lieutenant governor lock, stock, and barrel -- everything we could do to make sure he was elected. And we always did support him. And then when he ran for governor, we supported him. And when he was appointed senator, that was the stone that broke the old camel's back. We could not -- labor cannot, and a lot of other people cannot even justify, see how he could turncoat against the people that supported him over the years as they did. It was just unthinkable that he would do to the people that made great sacrifices for him.

LAPORTE: Mm-hmm.

BEXLEY: But that's the story of politics, anyway.

LAPORTE: Yeah, some have said that it is the lure of power and the need to get attention that caused former Governor Miller to take a different approach -- and it clearly was a different approach -- than what his career had been here in Georgia.

BEXLEY: It certainly was. It was just a complete turnaround. Yeah. That was one great mistake that Barnes made. I think Governor Barnes was the -- put all together, bar none, as far as labor was concerned, Barnes was the best governor in my era that was ever over there. That's just my opinion, of course.

LAPORTE: I see. Roy Barnes asked how he was going to be able to establish 01:20:00policies in the state of Georgia to make union contractors more competitive in bids. He provided access to labor organizations on state property and state facilities to speak to employees that was unprecedented, that had never been done before.

BEXLEY: Right.

LAPORTE: And Roy Barnes knew who his friends were and wanted to make sure that they received full consideration for the work they sought to do.

BEXLEY: He was one of the most astute representatives we had in the Legislature at that time. George Bagby --

LAPORTE: Mm-hmm.

BEXLEY: You remember George Bagby --

LAPORTE: Yes.

BEXLEY: -- was another staunch supporter of labor. His mother worked in the fac -- in the textile mills, and he was a great representative. And we had some from Savannah, Georgia. Chatham County was supportive of organized labor. And I 01:21:00forget the names of them. We had a number of them around here that were supportive of the causes of the working men and women -- not just organized people. We're not talking about organized; we're talking about generally, the working men and women in this state.

LAPORTE: Harry, some of the labor leaders that you worked with over your career as a labor official, you saw the coming of age of a carpenter by the name of Herb Mabry that went on to be the longest-serving president of the Georgia State AF-of-L-CIO. Can you comment on some of the leaders that you worked with and their impact on Georgia?

BEXLEY: Well, getting back to Herb, Herb was the result of the support of the 01:22:00IBEW -- we -- uh -- over -- an IBEW member, J.W. Giles. And of course, I was a main spring because I was president of the Georgia Electrical Workers and whatnot. And J.W. was a good guy, but he had some problems that I won't go into.

LAPORTE: Sure.

BEXLEY: But we just thought that Herb would do a better job than J.W., and we -- J.W. was -- uh -- believe business manager of 84 at that time.

LAPORTE: Mm-hmm.

BEXLEY: And he just couldn't understand the IBEW supporting a carpenter to be president of the Georgia State AFL-CIO. And he was very bitter about it, but we -- uh -- did it anyway. We thought Herb would do the better job. We didn't go for the individual for what organization we were from. And from then on, the 01:23:00IBEW always supported Herb Mabry because he was capable. He had some law training -- he didn't finish his law school, but he had enough training to, I think, make a good leader for the state as a whole, and -- which I'm glad we did.

LAPORTE: Mm-hmm.

BEXLEY: But we was able to get J.W. the job with the safety inspector for the federal -- what's that? OSHA.

LAPORTE: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

BEXLEY: We was able to get him that job. I went to the head of it in Washington -- I personally did -- and we got the international to go along to get J.W. that job, and he kept it until he fell off the wagon, so to speak.

LAPORTE: Mm. Mm-hmm. Was he -- was business manager for IBEW local --

BEXLEY: Eighty-four.

LAPORTE: -- 84 that represented Georgia Power workers --

BEXLEY: Correct.

LAPORTE: -- linemen and such.

BEXLEY: Correct.

LAPORTE: Yes.

BEXLEY: So.

LAPORTE: But Herb Mabry, as a member of the Building Trades, spoke on behalf of the Building Trades and all other workers that were represented by affiliated unions of the AF-of-L-CIO. And Harry, you served as counsel for the Georgia State AF-of-L-CIO for, I believe, the entire term --

BEXLEY: Right.

LAPORTE: -- that Herb Mabry was president --

BEXLEY: Correct.

LAPORTE: -- of the state fed.

BEXLEY: Correct, correct. And it was enjoyable. We had a good relationship, and I would smoke all of the bills over for them, and different other matters that come up in the -- we had good relations all the time, with the --

LAPORTE: Mm-hmm.

BEXLEY: By and large, all the labor leaders -- not to single out one or two -- 01:25:00but I think, generally speaking, the entire group of all the labor leaders in the state of Georgia that I've ever known were all upright Christian leaders and really represented the people that they represented in a fashion that anybody could be proud of if they knew them and their, their capabilities and their moral standards and whatnot. They was a -- I don't know of a one that -- of all the group -- and that's a large group of them, over the state -- that -- I can't think of a one, maybe, that ever got in any kind of trouble. Far exceeded the ministry (laughter) in that case.

LAPORTE: Now, you were --

BEXLEY: And the bankers.

LAPORTE: And the bankers. (laughs) You were council to the state AF-of-L-CIO when Martha True was elected as secretary-treasurer. And it was rare, I think, 01:26:00at that time, that a woman would be elected to a statewide office for a state labor federation.

BEXLEY: That is correct, and they made a great choice when they elected Martha True. She was a true labor representative from the CWA, and she had the respect of all of the elected officials. And she did a terrific job as being secretary to the Georgia State AFL-CIO.

LAPORTE: Mm-hmm.

BEXLEY: I hear that she -- when she retired, that she completely retired. I have not seen her since. Haven't had any contact with her, and she hasn't had any contact of late. I don't know why. But --

LAPORTE: Was it 1972 that Martha True was elected as secretary-treasurer of --

BEXLEY: Possible. I don't know the dates.

LAPORTE: That's early-mid '70s.

BEXLEY: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

LAPORTE: And so very --

BEXLEY: She was there for a long time.

LAPORTE: Yes, mm-hmm.

BEXLEY: There for a long time. She was quite a worker.

LAPORTE: And so you had a Building Trades representative president, and then someone representing an industrial union as secretary-treasurer, giving you the balance they need, AF-of-L and CIO.

BEXLEY: Right, right. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. They kept the balance. And I hate to see the labor movement break up like it is in Washington.

LAPORTE: Mm-hmm.

BEXLEY: But of course, you know, I think the leadership of the AFL-CIO hasn't been -- since George Meany left, I don't think it's been what it should have been --

WELDON: Say it again. Sorry.

BEXLEY: -- since then.

WELDON: Kirkland was a 16-year waste.

BEXLEY: I'm not surprised that some of the organizations have chose to go a 01:28:00different road. Of course, IBEW's still with the AFL-CIO. They've been a leadership in it for many years.

LAPORTE: Well, on that point -- um -- of course, George Meany retired, replaced by Lane Kirkland -- succeeded by Lane Kirkland --

BEXLEY: Right.

LAPORTE: -- and then there was the contest between Tom Donahue and John Sweeney.

BEXLEY: Mm-hmm.

LAPORTE: And of course, Sweeney was the challenger. And now, we see John Sweeney is facing the same sort of challenge that he posed to the establishment of the AF-of-L-CIO. (laughs)

BEXLEY: That goes around, comes around, doesn't it? (laughter)

LAPORTE: Well, it is -- it is ironic.

BEXLEY: It is.

LAPORTE: Yes.

BEXLEY: It is.

LAPORTE: Uh-huh.

BEXLEY: It is, but -- uh -- I tell you, the present administration we have in Washington today is -- what he couldn't get through the courts and his 01:29:00executive orders, he has done by opening the floodgates to illegal immigrants coming into this country. He has saturated the labor market with illegal aliens, taking over the jobs of the American workers. And I think it's devastating to us, and not just today, but I say five or ten years from now, it's going to affect the working men, women, and chil -- uh -- in this country -- a long time to come.

LAPORTE: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

BEXLEY: It's devastating. I didn't say legal, now; this is illegal.

LAPORTE: Yes, sir.

BEXLEY: So. What George Bush couldn't do with the pen, he's done it from opening the floodgates for illegals coming into this country to do the job that he knew, to crush the working men and women and bring us down to a third-rate 01:30:00country, which is fast becoming the -- I see it. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

WELDON: Profoundly negative effect in existence right now, and it's been going on since '86. I mean, it happens to be one of my favorite subjects, and I'm a bit of an expert on it. (laughs) Harry, you'd be happy to hear that I had lunch with president -- our great president in the international union, there. (laughs) He is doing a remarkable job in a lot of ways, but he told me that he is going to come out with a much higher profile in opposition to granting amnesty to illegal aliens. His exact words was, "That's a bunch of fucking bullshit." (laughs) That was -- and the IBEW is going to be, very soon -- and he's already began -- coming out much stronger on the situation. He's fighting a great deal with the Building Trades -- Sullivan and labor unions -- 01:31:00that's the only one he mentioned at the time. But it's a serious, serious problem, and it's going to do nothing but get worse.

LAPORTE: Well, in January of this year, we had the report from the Bureau of Labor Statistics showing that labor's membership declined by over 350,000 members from 2005 to 2006; that, in the private sector, approximately 9% of the workforce is organized, whereas in the public sector, it's 37% of the public workforce is organized. The highest rate of unionization is among public safety workers -- police officers and firefighters -- with teachers close behind. Do you see those trends continuing, and what do you see as the prospects for organized labor in the next 10 to 20 years?

BEXLEY: Well, you can easily understand those statistics because they're not English-speaking, and those jobs that you're talking about are still theirs because of the language difference in them and the illegality of them taking the jobs, which they would certainly be caught and deported in those type jobs.

LAPORTE: Mm-hmm.

BEXLEY: That's different from the construction industry and the other industry, which has no, to my knowledge, nothing in effect now to keep them from being on the jobs. And you couldn't go on a construction job today probably and find a legal worker on them, because we don't have the enforcement people to do it, and then what would they do if they found them. They'd have -- Sort of like the border and they say, when they got those two border patrol in jail. That's the most sickening thing I've ever heard in my life.

WELDON: Jesus. Isn't it something?

BEXLEY: That this administration we got would let something like that happen to the people in this country.

LAPORTE: Mm-hmm.

BEXLEY: And this is what we confronted with. And what's going to be the outcome? Who knows? The outsourcing, the importation of illegal immigrants is going to be horrendous to the working men and women of this country, whether in short-order clerks and cooks. I don't know. You've got to have a Master's degree or a Doctor's degree to exist in the future as I see it. Just plain college is not going to do it; you've got to go beyond the college degree in order to maintain the middle-class status in the future.

LAPORTE: Mm-hmm. All right.

BEXLEY: Unless we can turn it around on the next election, which is going to be interesting to see how it pans out.

WELDON: Mm-hmm. (laughs)

LAPORTE: Some recent decisions by the National Labor Relations Board in terms of who is in the bargaining unit and who isn't, and how this is going to affect the building and construction trades in terms of supervisors or lead persons.

BEXLEY: That is correct. Of course, I don't know the details of that ruling. I have not kept up with it since I've retired. But I can see the repercussions of it, removing the leadership of the jobs -- uh -- out of the unit, so to speak, and I don't know where that's going to leave us.

LAPORTE: Mm-hmm. Some have speculated that union members would not take the lead positions if they are going to be removed from the bargaining unit, because that would remove the protections of the contract that they enjoy.

BEXLEY: That's correct. That is correct. However, the IBEW, we've always included up -- up to the -- a superintendent in our bargaining groups, and we'd like to include them, too. In fact, our employers are under our health and welfare plan. Their staff. Them and their staff are under our health and welfare plan. I put them under there, because after all, they may be part of it, they're not going to object to increasing it or improving it.

LAPORTE: Sure.

BEXLEY: So it's a good idea to have them under the plan as well. Let their employees -- the office of course be under the same plan.

LAPORTE: Mm-hmm.

BEXLEY: So. Uh. There was a -- other than reciprocity, we had this -- there was another program. The referral procedure in the IBEW is a standard referral procedure, was put into effect by the legal counsel of Washington, D.C. I forget the guy's name, but -- what is it, Jim, do you know?

WELDON: That was a long time ago.

BEXLEY: That's right.

WELDON: Initially, before I've been business manager --

BEXLEY: Yes, yeah.

WELDON: -- it's been standard.

BEXLEY: Yeah, he put that -- he drafted this law and got it approved by the National Labor Relations Board and whatnot, and it was put into effect all over the country by making groups: group one, two, three, and four. That's the way they would be referred out, on the unemployed list. And that was causing -- 01:37:00prior to that, was causing a lot of problems with the National Labor Relations Board. And this national law, or the fact that he put in the contract all over the country, stopped all those charges from the National Labor Relations Board by forming that group one, and two, and three, and four program was another good program that they put into --

LAPORTE: Well --

WELDON: It's one of the mainstays, actually, of -- uh -- of the basis of the respect that the members have for IBEW. The International Construction Union has got to do it, referral procedures -- honestly administered. They have a lot of face in it, as they well should. This is -- we'll handle it, actually.

LAPORTE: Sure. That was the lifeblood in terms of their activity and their employment and --

WELDON: Sure.

LAPORTE: Yeah. And -- but -- but it was the IBEW that came up with the policy that has stood the test of time --

WELDON: Right, right.

LAPORTE: -- and I think that's the key point. When we do have workers that are given a voice and can have input into the policies by effective representatives, we can get a good result that stands the test of time and achieves equity for workers and provides quality employee to employer. Um, Harry, when did you retire as business manager of --

BEXLEY: Nineteen eighty-eight.

LAPORTE: And --

BEXLEY: And from the IEC was '91. I was on the IEC for 21 years, I believe.

WELDON: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

LAPORTE: And you have received a number of accolades and awards, including 01:39:00having the IBEW auditorium, which has been referred to as the town hall of the labor movement in Atlanta and the Southeast; you're a member of the Labor Hall of Fame; you received the Labor Awards Committee Lifetime Achievement Award. For all of those things, what are some of the things that you are most proud of, over your long career with the labor movement?

BEXLEY: When I was admitted to the United States Supreme Court. (laughs)

LAPORTE: Aha.

BEXLEY: I thought that was quite an ordeal. It was only -- Senator Russell wasn't a member of it, and he was a great lawyer, but he never -- he didn't have to. Neither was Herman Talmadge. And George -- I mean -- Davis -- Congressman Davis from Decatur --

LAPORTE: Mm-hmm.

BEXLEY: Remember that name?

LAPORTE: Mm-hmm.

BEXLEY: James Davis?

LAPORTE: Yes.

BEXLEY: Which was not a fond person of ours, but he was the only one that was a 01:40:00member of the Supreme Court, and you had to be a member of the Supreme Court to introduce somebody else to the Supreme Court. And he took the job. He was glad to do it, and I was glad he did it. And that was in 1970, I believe. I don't know, maybe before then.

LAPORTE: So you were admitted to practice before the United States Supreme Court?

BEXLEY: Yes, yes, yes, yes. And --

LAPORTE: So --

BEXLEY: But others were just as well. (laughter) You know, all on the ground level was important.

LAPORTE: So if Senator Richard Russell needed a lawyer to represent him before the Supreme Court, he could call on Harry Bexley. (laughter)

BEXLEY: He does -- he was a great guy, though.

LAPORTE: Well, people have said that it was the foresight of Harry Bexley to put the land together to build what is now the IBEW complex; it was the foresight of Harry Bexley to establish the pension and health and welfare funds that continues to benefit people today; it was the foresight of Harry Bexley to 01:41:00insist on high standards for workers that has allowed IBEW to remain competitive as perhaps the top Building Trades union in the state of Georgia. Can you comment on that, Harry, and the -- the pride you must have in people recognizing your insight, your vision, and your ability to achieve those things?

BEXLEY: Well, you know, I don't feel like I've done enough. That's my feeling. Maybe I failed in a lot of areas I should have done more.

LAPORTE: Mm-hmm.

BEXLEY: There's one phase that maybe we ought to touch on, and that's the Journal of Labor.

LAPORTE: Mm-hmm.

BEXLEY: That was our only communication we had -- Leola Lester -- I guess she ought to be on the board out there somewhere. Um. She was having to retire and was going to lose the Journal of Labor, and I thought that was a great asset for 01:42:00the labor movement in the state of Georgia was the Journal of Labor. It'd been there since (inaudible) Kendrick, which was her husband originally, ran the paper way back when the labor movement really started. And she held onto it as long as she could, and then she came up in the office one day and says, "You know, I've got to give up the Journal of Labor." And of course, that -- I didn't like the idea. And she said, "I don't know what to do with it." I said, "Well, Leola, what do you want for the paper?" And I said, "I can persuade the IBEW to buy the paper, and we'll give it to the Georgia State AFL-CIO." And she set a price, and we paid her price for the Journal of Labor, and we gave it to the Georgia State AFL-CIO, Herb Mabry. "Okay, here's the 01:43:00paper. It's yours." And Herb run it as long as he could financially because it -- uh -- so many of the local unions wanted their own communication rather than, you know, the paper. And of course, he couldn't take -- your ads become a problem in publishing the paper, and --

LAPORTE: Mm-hmm.

BEXLEY: So. I don't know how many years Herb kept it running, but he kept it running as long as he could, financially.

LAPORTE: Right.

BEXLEY: And I hated to see it go down the tube because --

LAPORTE: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

BEXLEY: -- it was a great arm of the labor movement.

LAPORTE: Right. Mm-hmm. As you said earlier, the communication is such an important part --

BEXLEY: Exactly. That's key to the -- everything is communication, and -- the right communication. She tried to give them the right communication in her paper.

LAPORTE: Mm-hmm.

BEXLEY: It was a great a -- it was a great paper -- very well-respected --

LAPORTE: Mm-hmm.

BEXLEY: -- because all the politicians was on the mailing list. (laughter) So 01:44:00you know.

LAPORTE: Well, Harry, is there anything else that you want to touch upon, in terms of your career or other things that you've seen in terms of issues affecting working people and the labor movement here in Georgia?

BEXLEY: Well, the state of Georgia, we need a terrific registration program; we need a communication program that we don't have at this point, or the financing to communicate that which we need to communicate with the working -- not just the organized worker, but the working men and women of this state that really need support in our government here. I don't know how they can address that, but -- uh -- we've got to get back to the ballot box for our survival.

LAPORTE: Mm-hmm.

BEXLEY: So.

LAPORTE: Yeah.

BEXLEY: Not right off.

LAPORTE: Mm-hmm. Well, politics --

BEXLEY: Enjoyed --

LAPORTE: Yes, sir?

BEXLEY: -- my interview with you. I've relived a lot of years, most of it I probably could put in but won't -- (laughs) couldn't. There are some areas that you don't talk about, I guess, that -- in any industry.

LAPORTE: Well, we want to -- I want to thank Harry Bexley for agreeing to sit today for this oral history interview, which is part of the Voices of Labor Project sponsored by the Southern Labor Archives at the Georgia State University Library. We --

BEXLEY: And I was glad to have Jim Weldon come as our guest because Jim has been my friend for umpteen years, and he was -- there happened to be a meeting here in Atlanta today, and thanks, Jim, for coming over and participating in this.

WELDON: What a stroke of luck it was. (laughter) I turned around, and there you were, and here I am here. Uh -- the business we've got is taking care of 01:46:00itself well. I have an organizer here with me that's out working. And certainly is my pleasure and honor to be sitting here, Harry. You're a great man.

BEXLEY: Of course, I still work with Ken.

LAPORTE: Yes.

BEXLEY: Still practicing law.

LAPORTE: That's right. So this -- this talk of retirement, that was a -- that was an error.

BEXLEY: I just changed hats. (laughter)

LAPORTE: So you continue to practice law today.

BEXLEY: Yes, sir. I like to do state work. That's easy. That's what -- lawyers don't retire, they just lose their appeal, as you know.

LAPORTE: I see. (laughter) I'm told that you still represent clients in traffic court, and you represent others on personal business before --

BEXLEY: Not traffic court -- I don't go no more.

LAPORTE: I see.

BEXLEY: It ain't worth the time. I tell them, "You go down there and plead your case."

WELDON: I've got to tell a story on you, if I can, Harry -- if you don't mind.

LAPORTE: Sure.

WELDON: Uh -- this was maybe 20 years ago, and I have a member call me, he got 01:47:00himself in real trouble in one of the outlying cities here close to Atlanta, and got in trouble big-time with the sheriff -- an argument. He ends up arrested, and handcuffs, and the whole bit. And he calls me up, "Jim, I'm in real trouble here. What can you do?" And I called up Harry Bexley. He took the information, and about two hours later, he was released from jail. Harry got in his car and drove wherever it was to -- I don't know exactly where it was at -- and took care of the problem -- completely. It was finished. He was released and allowed to go. (laughs) And Harry did that.

BEXLEY: (laughs) Yeah, and I backed into a lady down at the restaurant, too, you was in.

WELDON: Oh, yeah. (laughs) That was very good, too. (laughs) We were having lunch, and we're leaving, and Harry is just backing out, and this woman comes through the place very fast, and basically, Harry ran into her. And he gets out 01:48:00of the car and immediately takes the defense -- the offensive: "Pardon me, but weren't you moving rather fast?" You know, that kind of a thing. (laughs) And totally took the heart out of her. It worked out real good, too. That was -- that was a good one.

BEXLEY: Let me tell you another story about Senator Russell.

LAPORTE: Yes, sir.

BEXLEY: You know, a lot of people don't know what goes on in these political offices. This lady called me on the phone, and -- uh -- I guess it was during the Vietnam War -- and her only son -- she didn't have no more -- she called me and says, "He's on the boat in San Francisco, and they're fixing to ship out to Vietnam. Is there anything you can do?" I said, "Ma'am, I don't know how in the world I could -- if he's on the boat, then he's going to leave." She said, "Well, he's the only one I got; I got nothing else left." I said, "Well, let me see what I can do." I got on the phone 01:49:00with Senator Russell. I didn't speak with his aides; I got him. And I told him the story. He says, "Well, let me see what I can do." The next day, we got this communication. This boy was called up by the captain of the ship -- fixing to leave the next day. This boy was scared to death -- the captain of the ship calling him up to his quarters. And he says, "Go get your belongings. You're not going on this boat; you're leaving." Wondering what in the world's going on. Senator Russell had called that -- he was Secretary of Defense -- he got that boy off the ship and got him home. (laughter)

LAPORTE: When you're chairman of the Armed Services Committee, people pay attention when you call. (laughs)

BEXLEY: I thought that was something. And that boy couldn't understand what 01:50:00was going on. He was scared to death. He come in the office -- and he wasn't a member -- well, maybe his dad used to be. He says, "I want to thank you." He says, "I don't know how you did it." I said, "Well, don't worry about how I did it, just be thankful you got it." And I never forget that Senator Russell had a heart as well as other stuff.

LAPORTE: Your ability to establish relationships with people from a variety of walks of life -- from senior U.S. senators to governors to members, and not only members, but children of members, is a consistent theme of your career, and those relationships that you've established have paid dividends for you, for your organization, but the greatest beneficiary has been the people you represented.

BEXLEY: Well, that was the main part of the whole works, for the people you help. He insisted on meeting with Harry Van Arsdale in New York, I guess it was 01:51:00-- no, it was in Washington, D.C. -- with General Chang Kai-shek's wife. Van Arsdale had some kind of a meeting; he wanted me -- says, "I want you to come along." And I got to meet her. She was quite a lady. And the president of Poland -- I can't pronounce his name.

LAPORTE: Lech Wałęsa.

BEXLEY: Lech -- that's right. I met him on several -- I was on first-name speaking with him. When he was elected -- well, before he was elected, I was in Poland, and he was running then, and the guide on our bus, she was telling us about him, and I said, "Well, he's an electrical worker. I hope he's elected, you know." And she said, "Well, we think we're going to elect him." And he was. And soon after he was elected, he came to New York, and I 01:52:00met him there with Van Arsdale, and then later again, I met him in Washington. He came to the AFL-CIO meeting, which I was a delegate to that meeting, and I got to meet him again. And of course, he remembered. And lo and behold, the city of Avondale, Howard Osofsky, our associate, you know, legal associate, with Ken (Note 6) and -- was sponsoring the Polish -- see, he was Jewish-Pol -- Polish Jewish -- and he sponsored the Polish delegate to the Olympics. And he had Lech come here, and we had a meeting for him with the -- our county commissioner -- what's her name? DeKalb -- The lady?

LAPORTE: Leanne Levitan.

BEXLEY: Levitan.

LAPORTE: Mm-hmm.

BEXLEY: She was there at the meeting, and we had it over at the -- one of the hotels.

LAPORTE: Mm-hmm.

BEXLEY: And he still remembers. (laughter) It was great meeting him again.

LAPORTE: Yes, sir.

BEXLEY: And we had our picture made tog -- he wanted to have his picture made.

LAPORTE: Just electrician to electrician. (laughs)

BEXLEY: That's right, that's right, that's right.

LAPORTE: Well, that's wonderful. That's wonderful. Well, I think that's probably a good note to end our session today. And Harry, again, I want to thank you for coming in and adding to the Voices of Labor Oral History Project here at Georgia State. And Jim, thank you for your contributions as well.

WELDON: It's my pleasure to be here, and remarkable day. Remarkable day.