Diane Fleming Interview

TRACI DRUMMOND: This is Traci Drummond, Archivist for the Southern Labor Archives at Georgia State University Library. I am here with Diane Fleming. We are in Las Vegas for the Machinist, uh, Retirees Convention. It is November 21st, 2013, and we are going to talk to Diane today about, um, her history with the IAM. Welcome, Diane.

DIANE FLEMING: Welcome. Thank you.

DRUMMOND: And thanks for agreeing to sit with, uh, me for an interview today. We'll jump right in.

FLEMING: My pleasure.

DRUMMOND: Where and when were you born?

FLEMING: Uh, I was, uh, born in Chicago, Illinois.

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: August 13, 1942. And, um -- yeah.

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: (inaudible)

DRUMMOND: Well, and tell me a little bit about your childhood growing up there in Chicago.

FLEMING: All right. My childhood -- well, my father passed away when I was three 00:01:00years of age. So we, in turn, moved to Middlesboro, Kentucky, which is in the southeastern part of the State of Kentucky, where Tennessee, Virginia, and Kentucky border, uh, with my, um, mother's, um, parents, my grandparents. That's where, um, my childhood and teenage -- uh, until I went off to school.

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: So --

DRUMMOND: Are you an only child?

FLEMING: No, I have, um, another sister that -- she was six months old, so my father never got to, um, to see her. Uh, and then my mother remarried after, uh, a number of years. So I have, um, two, um -- three other siblings.

DRUMMOND: From her s--

FLEMING: One is deceased.

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: Yeah.

DRUMMOND: OK. OK. And so do you remember anything about Chicago before you got to Kentucky?

FLEMING: Very little. Um, actually my grandparents lived in Evanston, --

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: -- which is a suburb of Chicago. And I've gone back. Um, they eventually moved to Portland, Oregon, so, uh, we would go visit -- my sister and 00:02:00I would go visit them in Oregon.

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: Um, I did go kind of try to find out the street that they lived on, but I've -- very -- I have some vague memory about -- about the growing up and -- or the visits with my, um, my father's family --

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: -- there, before their relocation.

DRUMMOND: Do you mind if I ask what happened to your dad? Was he sick, or --?

FLEMING: Uh, it was service-related. Um, he was in World War -- I guess that would've been World War II.

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: Yeah.

DRUMMOND: Right at the end, probably.

FLEMING: Yeah, at the end. Um, he then contracted, um, I guess malaria. Then that lead to tuberculosis and he just, um -- I guess it had gotten too far along, you know, to really, um, be cured or anything, so that was -- that was it.

DRUMMOND: Well, I am sorry, uh, that that happened when you were so young.

FLEMING: Yeah.

DRUMMOND: So, you moved to Kentucky --

FLEMING: Yes.

DRUMMOND: -- which is probably very different than Chicago. the part you were in, I would imagine. So what was your life like, once you got there?

FLEMING: Well, at three you don't have too much (laughs) --

DRUMMOND: Oh. Yeah. Yeah.

FLEMING: I remember my grandmother raised -- we had chickens --

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: -- uh, in the backyard. Uh, it was a s-- segregated, um, town.

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: So, um, there were, um, different, um, you know, sections of town, um, where, at that time, it was called -- we were called coloreds. You know, we were not -- we -- we keep changing our definition of what we are, (laughs) our race. But, um --

DRUMMOND: Well, I think the big thing to point out there is that you f-- African Americans finally started saying "This is what we will be called," and not having white people call you what they want to call you.

FLEMING: E-- exactly.

DRUMMOND: Yeah. So that's --

FLEMING: Yeah.

DRUMMOND: That's OK.

FLEMING: But then --

DRUMMOND: (inaudible)

FLEMING: You know, I'm -- I'm -- found myself now using the term colored, 00:04:00because that's what I think is more descriptive of our race, because we are a -- a multitude of -- of colors. And -- and it -- it's more appropriate, I think.

DRUMMOND: Yeah.

FLEMING: So it's kind of funny. (laughs) But it was a very small town. Population of about 14,500. Again, there were different sections of the city that, um, our people lived. Um, some were little bit -- the class. You know, we get into class structure within our own race. And I'm sure all races do that. Um, the school was 1st through the 12th grade. My mother went there, my aunts, and everyone, so (laughs) -- um, and it was, um -- um, my graduating class, there were 12 people in it, so that kind of tells you --

DRUMMOND: And it was still segregated when you --

FLEMING: Still segregated.

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: Still segregated. Um, there was one movie theater we could go -- we 00:05:00were allowed to go to. And you'd buy your tickets in the f-- in the f-- at the ticket office, but then you would have to go around and sit in the balcony, which were, actually, the better seats. (laughs) And, um, there was no -- no dining in any of the places, which was very limited, anyway.

DRUMMOND: Right.

FLEMING: Um -- oh, my grandfather was -- um, he was a waiter. He had worked, uh, on the railroad. He had, um -- he was a very well educated, um -- um, man. Uh, very small stature. Um, he was probably one of the f-- only people in Middlesboro that got the Congressional Journal. That, you know, was very impressive.

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: I didn't know. I was like, "What is this, Granddad?" Um, my grandmother was, um, very, um -- she was originally from Louisiana. And so there was a mixture of the race. The -- I guess the Creole is what you would call --

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: Um, c-- called her --

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: -- in my family. And it was, um -- it was just -- it was, was, a good childhood, from what I could remember. Um, I did -- I did know at an early age that this would not be the place that I would spend the rest of my l-- (coughs) life.

DRUMMOND: Really?

FLEMING: And that, as soon as possible, I would be -- I would be out of there.

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: So, um, I ended up, um -- so that's -- that's kind of it. But it was, um -- the school was -- we had some wonderful educators and we were actually, um -- uh, exposed to many, many different, um -- uh -- different pieces, as far as -- we -- we had performances, uh, plays. Uh, there were, um -- uh -- there was a limit with, actually, books or any type of materials like 00:07:00that, but, you know, it was -- things were implemented in so many ways. It was a well-rounded education for -- um, for us. And I'm always amazed at -- that some of the people from that town, um, just kind of went different places in the world. And, you know, very, very achieved.

DRUMMOND: Hmm. OK.

FLEMING: So -- so that's kind of that.

DRUMMOND: And growing up there -- I have to ask, were there ever any incidences -- because you said it was a segregated down -- was it the kind of thing where there was just this mutual understanding that the white folks would stay in one part of --

FLEMING: Mm-hmm.

DRUMMOND: -- town, the black folks --

FLEMING: You're right.

DRUMMOND: -- would stay in one part of town? Or were there -- because I'm from the Deep South. I grew up in Georgia.

FLEMING: Mm-hmm.

DRUMMOND: I know, there, um, there were issues in some places.

FLEMING: Yeah.

DRUMMOND: Racist attacks, things --

FLEMING: Yeah.

DRUMMOND: And lynchings --

FLEMING: Yeah.

DRUMMOND: -- and things like that.

FLEMING: Yeah.

DRUMMOND: And so --

FLEMING: We never --

DRUMMOND: So it was just --

FLEMING: I never experienced that. I never understood. Because again, like I said, there were some that were -- had a little bit -- everybody was kind of poor, you know. (laughs)

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: Some were -- had a little bit more than others. And then we, um, had people that lived next to us, that were -- that had a lot less than we had, that were of – of the white race. So it was very, um -- it was -- it was easy. My mom worked for, um, one of the department stores there. She was, um, in the stock, uh -- you know, stock clerk, I guess is what they called it at the time. And, uh, now, I guess you would call it merchandising -- merchandising assistant. (laughs)

DRUMMOND: Yeah.

FLEMING: And then my stepfather, he did, um, numerous things. So we never -- never experienced, I guess -- or we were never actually exposed -- you knew, um, certain areas of the town that you just didn't go into. And -- and you sort of 00:09:00kept your boundaries, which -- I think, at that time, segregation was a little bit more defined, and, um, it wasn't as subtle as it is now, because it's still very prevalent, and I think that it's actually, um, declined, uh, as far as, um, the progression of integration --

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: -- or acceptance of -- of races.

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: So, um I -- I did not understand, though, why we had -- um, you had to go to the colored restroom. There was lines at -- the water fountain was for coloreds. And they were always so very unsanitary. So we were fortunate that we were able to travel, to go, you know, to other places. And so it's like, well I c-- I -- I don't understand. Why do I have to sit here? Why do I have to go? And it's just -- you know, do it.

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: (laughs) So it was never, you know, totally explained to you about it. It was just that you knew these boundaries and you stayed within them.

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: Yeah.

DRUMMOND: So was your town integrated while you still lived there, or had you moved away by the time integration was sort of --

FLEMING: I had moved away, but, um, my sister was one of the first to go to -- they had an integrated graduation. It was quote, un-quote, so that the state could give the school money, you know, to the white high school. But then after that, you know, there -- there was integration.

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: Yeah.

DRUMMOND: OK. So what was expected of a young woman growing up in Kentucky, in a smaller town? What was -- what -- what -- what hopes did your parents have for you?

FLEMING: Well, my parents had -- had been, um, educated. They had gone to college.

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: And many of the people that we knew had -- had gone on. Um, very few -- 00:11:00there are still some -- very few people, um, stayed there. You know, you would go off to school, and then you -- some would come back. Um, like the ones I grew up with. I think there's like one -- one or two people that are still there in the town. Um, and I -- what was expected is that you would further your education and that you would be able to take care of yourself and your family, and -- and that's kind of it --

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: -- as far as -- and that's what I knew --

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: -- that -- the plans for me would be. (laughs)

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: Um --

DRUMMOND: OK. Um, did you work while you were still in high school?

FLEMING: Well, I did babysit for some white families. There was a, uh, pediatrician. Um, and, um, my grandmother used to do ironing. You know, taking --

DRUMMOND: Hmm.

FLEMING: -- clothes.

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: And so I'd, um -- would sometimes help her. And a couple times, I went to a family and did -- (laughs) not sure what I was doing, but, um, I guess it was maybe babysitting. That was --

DRUMMOND: Hmm.

FLEMING: -- about it.

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: But there was no -- there was really no other, uh, type of employment there.

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: Mm-hmm.

DRUMMOND: OK. And so when you graduated --

FLEMING: I went off to, uh, Knoxville, Tennessee, which is about 65 miles. That the -- the largest township, or city --

DRUMMOND: Hmm.

FLEMING: -- near Middlesboro. And went to college there. I did participate in the sit-ins --

DRUMMOND: Yeah, OK.

FLEMING: -- at, um -- at the -- um, [this Rich's?]. I don't know if Rich's department store --

DRUMMOND: We had -- no, we had -- we had --

FLEMING: Had --

DRUMMOND: We had --

FLEMING: The --

DRUMMOND: We had those --

FLEMING: Right.

DRUMMOND: We had the sit-ins in Atlanta, too.

FLEMING: The sit-ins. Yeah.

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: At the counters there. I remember the marching, and I remember telling my mother after the fact, and she was a bit upset. And I guess it's because sh-- of the fear. But I didn't -- I didn't have that fear. It was like --

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: -- you know, this is not right. And I -- I was pretty -- I was pretty vocal as to why, I don't understand, and this is -- this is just not right.

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm. So that's sort of --

FLEMING: Yeah.

DRUMMOND: -- when you got your first activist --

FLEMING: Exactly.

DRUMMOND: -- leanings perhaps --

FLEMING: Exactly. Exactly.

DRUMMOND: perhaps.

FLEMING: (laughs)

DRUMMOND: Well, what was your major?

FLEMING: Um, it was in, um, education.

DRUMMOND: Education?

FLEMING: Yeah.

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: Yeah.

DRUMMOND: And did you work while you were in school? Did you have, like, a part-time --?

FLEMING: No, because, um, one of the -- one of the better things was because -- and -- and not better, but one of the opportunities given, um, was that my -- because of my father's death, military related, my sister and I, um, were able to, um, you know, continue our education through the government. And that was an important part of Social Security, which, you know, they try -- they tried to cut --

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: -- all of those benefits. So that -- that does help -- Social Security is not just for older people.

DRUMMOND: Right.

FLEMING: It -- it -- it helps many, many families in other ways. So --

DRUMMOND: And so that's something you were aware of, even as a young woman?

FLEMING: Mm-hmm.

DRUMMOND: That Social Security --

FLEMING: Yeah.

DRUMMOND: -- was helping you. OK.

FLEMING: Yeah.

DRUMMOND: And -- and then having these sit-ins, and sort of --

FLEMING: Mm-hmm.

DRUMMOND: -- being away from home, and growing into a young woman, and getting your activist leanings.

FLEMING: Mm-hmm.

DRUMMOND: Can you talk about, maybe, uh, how -- why it was important to you to become involved?

FLEMING: Uh, for -- for fairness, and just the -- the right thing to do, to treat people, um, as you would want to be treated. Give people the opportunity. And that it's -- it's just part of -- of the way we should live.

DRUMMOND: Did you have a lot of -- or did you have any support from, um, maybe more progressive white people in Knoxville at the time?

FLEMING: No.

DRUMMOND: Like, joining you for the sit-ins, or anything like that?

FLEMING: Not that I remember.

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: Yeah.

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: I would -- I -- I guess I got pretty -- I was pretty, um, maybe somewhat a little bit angry that, you know, you have to go through this, you know, why?

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm. I would have been --

FLEMING: Yeah.

DRUMMOND: -- incredibly --

FLEMING: Yeah.

DRUMMOND: -- angry.

FLEMING: Yeah.

DRUMMOND: Yeah.

FLEMING: It's like, OK.

DRUMMOND: Yeah.

FLEMING: I'm not the b-- (laughs) um, I guess I'm not -- I wasn't one of the, um -- I would probably have leaned more to, um, some of Malcolm's -- X's way of viewing things, rather than Dr. King's, you know, with the passiveness, and so forth.

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: I'd never -- I never had the -- the jail or the dogs or the -- I don't -- I don't -- I'm not sure that my personality would've been able to accept that, because I would probably have (laughs) reacted a little bit differently.

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: But with the sit-ins, you know, it was a -- a very quiet, peaceful thing, and this was the right way to do it.

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: And you never, um -- I guess it's just the respect that you have for yourself, that you do not put yourself on the s-- um, the same level as some of the people that are not, um, as kind. Yeah.

DRUMMOND: Did you all have people show up to, um, sort of actively confront you about what you were doing?

FLEMING: Yeah, there was -- there were, you know, the lines that -- that you would have to just walk through --

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: -- and -- and not pay any attention to.

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: And you were given instructions as to -- to -- to how to do things.

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: Yeah.

DRUMMOND: So it was very organized.

FLEMING: Mm-hmm. Very organized.

DRUMMOND: It wasn't just showing up.

FLEMING: No.

DRUMMOND: It was --

FLEMING: No.

DRUMMOND: It was planned. OK. So you get through college, and --

FLEMING: Right.

DRUMMOND: Did you start looking for a job, or --?

FLEMING: No. Then I ended up -- um, I did not graduated from there. I ended up coming to Washington, DC.

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: Um, my aunt and uncle, um, were living there.

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: And then my, um, my plan was to then to continue the education in Washington. Um, I planned to go to Howard. However, um, I -- I think it was the Winter -- I had gotten -- one of my first jobs was with, um, the Het Company, which is, uh, no longer. It's now a Macy's Department Store and Gift Wrap.

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: And then, um, I, um -- I guess, became employed. And school was kind of put on the back burner. And then when I came back to -- I went back to Kentucky for that Christmas. And then when I came back to -- to Washington, they had -- I guess it was, um -- they had terminated the employment. Or it was seasonal.

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: At the time, so --

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: I ended up on the second -- the second employment was, um, National Geographic, um, magazine, in their other publication department. Other than the magazine, they do other, uh, printed publications.

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: So I became assistant analyst there. But I had applied for other jobs. And at the time, you were considered overqualified if there were a quota of -- of blacks that had already been hired. So that was the term. You know, well, you're overqualified. Uh, try this or try that. So, you know -- um, so n-- this is leading up to my United career. I guess I was with National Geographic for maybe a year or two years.

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: And I was -- my aunt said, "Oh, we hear that United Airlines is hiring." So, um, you had to, first, be pre-interviewed by the Urban League, and then sent out to -- yeah. Yeah. This -- they wanted to make sure that the applicants were, um, qualified, and that there would be no reason why you should not be able to hire people.

DRUMMOND: OK. So --

FLEMING: So --

DRUMMOND: Oh, OK. So they didn't want a company run by white people to have an 00:19:00excuse to say no. They wanted to --

FLEMING: Right.

DRUMMOND: -- to, like, pre-interview and make sure -- OK.

FLEMING: That we were sitting a person out that --

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: You know, like, why c-- why --

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: -- can't you hire this person?

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: So I -- I did that. I went to, um --

DRUMMOND: And -- I'm sorry. Tell me again. About what year would that have been?

FLEMING: Um, well, with United, it was 1963 is when I was hired.

DRUMMOND: OK. You were hired in sixty--

FLEMING: April of 1963.

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: So these other jobs were, um, two or three years before that.

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: Um, I graduated at 16. I was kind of early. (laughs) Early years.

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: Yeah.

DRUMMOND: Oh.

FLEMING: Yeah.

DRUMMOND: Wow. Yeah. OK.

FLEMING: And, um, so I applied for a flight attendant because that's kind of all I knew about the airline industry. And I was then advised that, well, um, I was very thin, and that I was not outgoing enough. So, to go into the reservations department. Well, at that time, they were making more money than 00:20:00flight attendants.

DRUMMOND: Hmm.

FLEMING: So I did that. And then to come back in six months and reapply for flight attendant, that I should be ready by then. Well, the whole thing is they had to had the quota of people that they needed in that position.

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: So, um -- so I was -- I was hired, myself and another woman from, um -- she was actually from New York -- no, from Detroit. But she had relocated to Washington. Is this too long?

DRUMMOND: No.

FLEMING: This story?

DRUMMOND: No.

FLEMING: (laughs)

DRUMMOND: I'm j-- I -- I'm -- I'm just always checking to make sure --

FLEMING: OK.

DRUMMOND: -- it's recording correctly.

FLEMING: Yeah.

DRUMMOND: And that it's still moving.

FLEMING: So, um, we were two of the first persons initially hired directly from the street, as you would say it, for United. And, uh, it was -- we were very well received, except that they would get us confused with the names. (laughs) And, um, I was Carter at the time, and she was Jenkins. And -- uh -- um -- and, 00:21:00you know, we looked nothing alike. (laughs)

DRUMMOND: Right.

FLEMING: Our personalities were nothing alike. And it's like, no, no, no. But finally, um, it was some of the, you know, really just wonderful people, and we were just openly received. And you know, s-- at that time, some of our best friends were white. (laughter) So, uh, but it was, you know -- that was -- that was it.

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: And I never went on back to f-- apply for, uh, to become a flight attendant. (laughs)

DRUMMOND: What were some of your duties, um, doing reservations? And -- and -- and I'm sure that if you started there in '63, over the years you saw the technology change a lot.

FLEMING: Yeah. The technology.

DRUMMOND: (inaudible)

FLEMING: We had, um --

DRUMMOND: So what was a res-- a reser-- how would a reservation be done?

FLEMING: Um, it would be called in. You would have, um, a paper card that you would fill out. And the first -- we have, um, s-- um, sort of a -- um, very 00:22:00limited type computer but you would key things in. And then you would give the fare and the names and so forth. And you would send it down this little running belt. And then it would go to what was called a sort. And the people would sort alphabetically by flight number -- by flight numbers, and, you know, um, destinations, and names, and so forth. Um, then it finally -- it f-- progressed to tickets by mail. And that was, I guess, the first real part of ticketing, because of -- the -- you have ticket offices and -- lots of ticket offices --

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: -- at the time. And people would go in. And then, um, there were different areas of the reservation department, um, for rates and, um -- but it was pretty basic. United, you know, uh, um, market was -- was limited. I mean, nothing like today, but -- you know, the main thing was to Chicago. And then you 00:23:00went on from Chicago to other places. So it was -- it was a lot of manual, um -- manual activity. And there were shifts. And, um -- I don't know if we had 24-hour shifts. I know there was a -- a midnight to morning. Yeah. There was 24 hours some in there.

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: So --

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: And then, you know, the seniority was -- was put in place.

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: Um --

DRUMMOND: Seniority was put in place even before you got the unit in?

FLEMING: Mm-hmm.

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: Yeah.

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: Yeah.

DRUMMOND: Were you all under the Railway? Did you all have to do things according to the Railway Act?

FLEMING: Um, possibly. I (laughs) --

DRUMMOND: You didn't -- you didn't -- you have no idea?

FLEMING: -- I don't know. I have no idea. (laughs)

DRUMMOND: What was the dress code like for young women?

FLEMING: Oh, that was quite interesting. At the time I began, you could only wear, um, skirts or dresses. You -- no pants. Then, we were finally allowed to wear pantsuits, but then the, uh, jacket had to cover your butt -- your buttocks.

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: Yeah. So --

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: The dress code. And that was even in -- in the reservations department. Um, that was -- I just lost a thought there about something about that. But, um, yeah. That was -- that was quite interesting with the -- with the dress code. Oh, it was a retirement. You could not join the retirement plan until you were 20-- for females until you were 25. So that --

DRUMMOND: Because -- do they expect that you would have a husband and be on his plan, or --?

FLEMING: Um, I don't know.

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: You were not eligible for retire--

DRUMMOND: Interesting.

FLEMING: -- for the retirement plan. You were also not, um -- as far as -- because I did, then, become married and have children -- their maternity leave -- you were not guaranteed your job when you came back to, um -- to work.

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: If there was an opening available, you were then, uh, allowed to return.

DRUMMOND: Did you lose your seniority?

FLEMING: Um, you know, I'm not sure. I might have. (laughs)

DRUMMOND: Hmm.

FLEMING: I don't know. That was like -- (laughs) I'm 71 now Traci, so. (laughter)

DRUMMOND: You don't look it. You don't look 71.

FLEMING: So that was -- that was, like, many years. But --

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: -- then I think the insurance -- insurance did not cover, um, that.

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: Um, I think they covered, like, $250, um, for your medical expenses --

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: -- and had -- birth of a -- a child.

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: And then the leave was -- I think it was six weeks that you were allowed. And again, that was based on the availa-- if you --

DRUMMOND: Yeah.

FLEMING: If there was a job opening at the time.

DRUMMOND: So did you -- but you were able to go back?

FLEMING: Mm-hmm. I went back.

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: Yeah.

DRUMMOND: All right. And so you --

FLEMING: And so those -- all those -- over the years, those benefits have improved. And then, of course, with the union, that did bring about many changes.

DRUMMOND: OK. And so you had Lisa in '65?

FLEMING: Mm-hmm.

DRUMMOND: And Louis in '67.

FLEMING: Mm-hmm.

DRUMMOND: And, um, let's -- so let's talk about them, um, for just a -- for just a minute. Have you sort of instilled any of your activist leanings into 00:26:00your -- (phone rings)

FLEMING: Sorry.

DRUMMOND: It -- no, that -- that's fine.

FLEMING: Uh-huh.

DRUMMOND: It happens.

FLEMING: Um -- I'm going to need to call you back. Uh, I'm going to need to call you back. Huh, she must have -- Uh, the -- probably -- I would say yes.

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: Yes. Um, my son is a little more, um -- very vocal and, um -- than my daughter in -- in his views, um, and his activism.

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: He is with the Smithsonian and they do have a union. And I was just -- and I was -- um, and h-- his -- some of his colleagues come to him for advice, 00:27:00and so forth. So I've been trying to get him. I said, "Well, you know, you should become a leader." And he says the union -- this union is not very good. (laughs) It's -- doesn't --

DRUMMOND: Mm.

FLEMING: It's --

DRUMMOND: Is he with, uh, maybe NFFI or --

FLEMING: I think it's --

DRUMMOND: -- AFSCME or s-- or --?

FLEMING: Or something.

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: Yeah. It's not --

DRUMMOND: One of our --

FLEMING: -- very strong.

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: Yeah. Um, so -- but I still -- but he doesn't, uh, balk it, or he doesn't step aside. You know, if something's right, he's very -- I guess both of them have very strong -- if they have very strong views on something, they do, um, reflect that. So that's -- that's part of something, that if you really believe in something --

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: -- that I tried to instill -- you know, you just -- you just go for it. And obviously you're not always right sometimes.

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: And, you know, you do have to give a little bit, but --

DRUMMOND: Right.

FLEMING: Yeah.

DRUMMOND: OK. OK.

FLEMING: And so Lisa is in, um -- she's in the Air Force. And, um, she's -- I think she has two more years before retirement. She actually has her 20 years, 00:28:00but she has, um, other -- her last tour added on. So she's currently in Biloxi, Gulfport, Mississippi.

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: Yeah.

DRUMMOND: Do you get down there to gamble?

FLEMING: I have never been there.

DRUMMOND: They have --

FLEMING: Yeah. And so --

DRUMMOND: That's where my parents go.

FLEMING: (laughs) So when she, um -- God, you know, it's like Mississippi, because she'd had some wonderful tours --

DRUMMOND: Uh-huh.

FLEMING: Misawa, Japan, um, Lakenheath in England, Germany, and so forth. So -- uh, they had, um, traveled to those places.

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: Yeah. And she has four children.

DRUMMOND: Wow.

FLEMING: Yeah. Yeah.

DRUMMOND: Nice.

FLEMING: My son is not married or with children.

DRUMMOND: OK. Do you --?

FLEMING: But both of them are, you know --

DRUMMOND: Yeah.

FLEMING: And I think some of the -- the grandchildren -- at least they have very strong feelings or views about things. So they --

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: Um, they do express that.

DRUMMOND: OK. Very good. So, um, back to your job at United. So you started there in '63, but you were telling me that it was probably closer to 1980 before you got a union, before the --

FLEMING: The -- the -- w--

DRUMMOND: -- union organized, you were --

FLEMING: Right. And it may even -- yeah. It was closer to that. Yeah.

DRUMMOND: OK. So what -- so what sort of started happening that made you guys feel it would be important to organize the -- the --?

FLEMING: Well, I think because we did have the -- our mechanics that were organized -- um, all -- every group was organized except us. And so the --

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: -- machinists came. Um, and I believe that the -- the -- also, at the other time, you know, there were other unions trying to organize us, but because our machinists were with the -- uh, the IAM, we went with them. And that was it. It -- and it was, you know, for the -- for, um, certain rights. And -- and better, um, benefits.

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: Yeah.

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: Yeah.

DRUMMOND: Um, and the whole time you were there, you worked in reservations?

FLEMING: N-- no. That --

DRUMMOND: No.

FLEMING: I began reservations.

DRUMMOND: Reservations. That's right.

FLEMING: And then I went to the city ticket office.

DRUMMOND: And -- and does -- and explain what a city ticket office is for.

FLEMING: All right. That would -- people would come in and purchase their tickets. That was before the internet. (laughter) Um, our -- ah the tickets by mail. That was one of the first way of -- of getting your ticket. But, um, they would come in and plan their itineraries, as we would have your international travelers with -- it -- which would be a more extensive itinerary --

DRUMMOND: Yeah.

FLEMING: -- that you might have to do pricing on. And, um, the tickets were initially hand-written, because our ticket off-- ticket -- uh, ticketing personnel -- with the tickets by mail, they would have to -- we had paper tickets. And you would have to write these tickets, you know, out, before the computer days. And then, um, that would be the same at the ticket office. And 00:31:00then it got a little more, um, advanced with technology. And so now we have the e-ticket.

DRUMMOND: Yes.

FLEMING: So I've seen, you know, the whole progression --

DRUMMOND: Yeah.

FLEMING: -- of that. Um -- so then once, um, at the ticket office, I did have to -- I had, um, an assignment to go to -- São Paulo, Brazil. And that was to open a ticket office there, because Pan American -- United had merged with Pan American.

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: We took over the -- their routes, the internat-- some of their international routes, especially South America and Central American. So that was -- you know, there -- was that a two month? I think that one might've been a two month assignment.

DRUMMOND: And how was that?

FLEMING: That was just -- that was so incredible.

DRUMMOND: (laughs)

FLEMING: That was wonderful. I speak no Spanish, no Portuguese.

DRUMMOND: Yeah.

FLEMING: Only English, which is, you know, not the greatest (inaudible; laughs) -- but it was just a wonderful working crew, because then, you know, the -- the 00:32:00persons that we were training were bilingual, so they helped a lot. It's -- you know, we, um, it was just a good experience.

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: I do have some memorabilia from Pan Am, when we took over their -- their office.

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: Um, then I also had an assignment in, um, Guatemala, you know, for the same thing.

DRUMMOND: Interesting. Yeah.

FLEMING: Yeah. Yeah. So that was --

DRUMMOND: You got to travel.

FLEMING: -- pretty good. Yeah. Um, during strikes, though -- am I advancing too far?

DRUMMOND: Well, I wanted to go back --

FLEMING: Hmm.

DRUMMOND: How did -- how -- what kind of pushback did you get from management when you guys were trying to organize? I mean, did they sort of say, but we don't really want that to happen, but we see that these people organized, and these people organized, and so --

FLEMING: Yeah. That was limiting. And I guess as far as the -- um, the meetings, or you know, when you would -- yeah. I think so. I -- I just remembered it being very -- the way the cards initially were handed out, you know, how we had to be 00:33:00very careful about doing the -- the proper thing.

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: Um, and it wasn't -- management was pretty cool at the time, I think.

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: And so we didn't get a lot of, on -- on our level -- I don't remember a lot of, um -- of things that were -- that we were really -- I guess you were just cautious there -- now there were people within our own organization, you know, that were against the union.

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: You know, we just -- you know -- well, we don't understand. You know, like --

DRUMMOND: Yeah, like co-workers who didn't want --

FLEMING: Co-workers, yeah.

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: Our colleagues.

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: One of our colleagues --

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: -- that didn't necessarily want -- didn't see any benefit of a union.

DRUMMOND: OK. Did the environment change once you organized? Was there -- did it -- did the workplace feel different?

FLEMING: Mm-mm.

DRUMMOND: Or --?

FLEMING: No. No.

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: I don't think so.

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: Yeah. I guess there was a pretty -- it was this pretty congenial group of people, and they -- yeah. You -- you -- you got along pretty well, you know. And then once the people that wouldn't -- they saw the benefits, I guess, they received. Then, uh, that made it better.

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: Yeah. So I don't -- I didn't see a lot of division with management and non-management at the time --

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: -- anymore than before.

DRUMMOND: OK. Great. But you had mentioned a strike.

FLEMING: Well then this is when the company -- you know, we had -- we had strikes --

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: -- because of, um -- and I didn't -- I guess I didn't -- because we were new to the union. We did not know a lot of the, like, negotiations, and so forth, and so on.

DRUMMOND: But --

FLEMING: And many -- we did know that there were going to be some things that were going to be better for us. And, um, so when the, um, mechanics would 00:35:00strike, then, you know, we would also be on strike as well. But at the time, there were reciprocal agreements with the d-- other airlines. For, um, example, American Air -- they would hire -- they would hire the reservations people to, um, come to their workplaces, because they were so uh inundated because United was l-- so large.

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: And, um, I remember one time I went up to Hartford, Connecticut, and worked for American. And then you were paid -- you were given your salary. You were given a per diem and accommodations. So --

DRUMMOND: Wow.

FLEMING: -- we were like, OK, this is sweet. (laughter) Our children were little, but they were with their father, so that was good.

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: But then, uh, other -- another time, was it -- was it American again? I think. Um, I stayed local. Either Delta -- you know, so it would depend --

DRUMMOND: Yeah.

FLEMING: -- on which airlines some of the people went to work for. Piedmont at the time -- uh, you may not even know about that.

DRUMMOND: [I might?] -- I don't remember Piedmont --

FLEMING: No?

DRUMMOND: -- at all.

FLEMING: Yeah. (laughs) It was a southern carrier.

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: But, um, that -- that, um, those things happened, too. So --

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: The -- the whole industry was a lot, lot different than today. Yeah.

DRUMMOND: OK. All right. So -- so you're saying that a lot of the strikes came about more because you guys weren't really equipped to negotiate?

FLEMING: Well --

DRUMMOND: Or --?

FLEMING: We were -- we were out because, say, the machinists would go out.

DRUMMOND: So you -- so it was a sympathy strikes?

FLEMING: Yeah.

DRUMMOND: OK, so --

FLEMING: Yeah. So we would --

DRUMMOND: So you never struck for your own group?

FLEMING: No.

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: We were part of the machinists, and then, you know, when on strike, we were all on strike.

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: Yeah.

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: Yep.

DRUMMOND: Um, do you have any stories about that? Or did any of those last a long time, or, (inaudible) --?

FLEMING: Well, they -- s-- one did last a few -- quite a few -- a couple months.

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: Yeah.

DRUMMOND: Did you all have a good strike fund to sort of help folks out?

FLEMING: Um --

DRUMMOND: Or…? --

FLEMING: Well I wasn't -- again, I had gone to work for another airline, so I was still OK financially.

DRUMMOND: Oh, OK.

FLEMING: Yeah, so we --

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: Our -- I guess we didn't have the impact that maybe some of the other -- other folks had, you know.

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: You know.

DRUMMOND: So after that strike was over --

FLEMING: Mm-hmm.

DRUMMOND: Would you leave that job -- was it just temporary -- and go back to --?

FLEMING: Oh yeah.

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: Yeah. Yeah.

DRUMMOND: OK. So you always came back to United.

FLEMING: Yeah.

DRUMMOND: Or Pan Am, like whatever --

FLEMING: Yeah. This was just, um, say, like a loan.

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: They would loan X number of people. Whoever wanted to go to, say, American --

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: -- to help -- help with them. Um --

DRUMMOND: That's interesting.

FLEMING: Yeah.

DRUMMOND: Because you think

FLEMING: Mm-hmm.

DRUMMOND: You think that the, um --

FLEMING: Well, that was before the competition was just that --

DRUMMOND: Yeah.

FLEMING: -- that, um, cutthroat, I guess --

DRUMMOND: Yeah.

FLEMING: -- is the word. Yeah.

DRUMMOND: Because it's -- because it's -- inter-- it's kind -- you can tell -- sort of hard for me to wrap my head around the idea that, we're striking against you, but you're going to send us somewhere where we can make 00:38:00some money while we're on strike.

FLEMING: Yeah.

DRUMMOND: Like, that --

FLEMING: Well, your group is on strike.

DRUMMOND: Yeah.

FLEMING: Yeah. So we're striking against the company. So --

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: -- it wasn't, you know, the other airlines are going to make -- you know -- we're --

DRUMMOND: Yeah.

FLEMING: It was all about, I guess, to people, you know, trying to accommodate the people for travel.

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: When I think about it, you know.

DRUMMOND: Who were those two people?

FLEMING: Hmm. That was the people --

DRUMMOND: Uh-huh.

FLEMING: You know, passengers.

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: Yeah. That's right --

DRUMMOND: But, I mean, you said two people trying to accommodate --

FLEMING: Oh, no. It was -- I meant for trying to accommodate people not to --

DRUMMOND: Oh, OK.

FLEMING: (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) um, the -- the airline, trying to accommodate.

DRUMMOND: Trying to accommodate. OK.

FLEMING: Yeah. The passengers --

DRUMMOND: I see. OK.

FLEMING: -- is what I was trying to s-- you know, get that right out. Yeah, so it's -- it's really kind of interesting how that -- that whole thing happened.

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: Yeah.

DRUMMOND: So did you learn more about the union as the years -- what -- what year did you actually, may I ask, what year did you --

FLEMING: (inaudible)

DRUMMOND: -- actually retire?

FLEMING: Uh, I think I've been retired for about 10 or 12 years now.

DRUMMOND: OK. So --

FLEMING: Hmm. Yeah.

DRUMMOND: -- around 2000, 2001?

FLEMING: Yeah. Right.

DRUMMOND: OK. OK. Um, so you were with United for a long time.

FLEMING: Mm-hmm.

DRUMMOND: Was united still an airline when you retired, or had they already --?

FLEMING: Yeah. That was -- United was still --

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: That was before the -- the merger with continental.

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: Yeah. No -- one of the -- the past -- uh, Stephen Wolf. Stephen Wolf was a real -- um, I should not talk about people. But he would just come in, and just -- just pretty much rape your carriers. He had some other airlines before United that he became, um, CEO. And he tried to, um, do a merger with US Air at 00:40:00the time.

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: And, I mean, the millions that were spent on trying to do the merger. And then management -- it was all about him and management, and selling the airlines off. Um, United survived, um, but, um -- then after that, you know, we went through the financial, um -- the employee, um, ownership, uh, where our salaries were, um – we, ah, made concessions. The concessions with salary and, um -- which was to be part of your retirement, but the only time you could get that -- the stock. It was put in stock -- was that, you know, if you left the company, if you -- so it was -- it was very similar to the -- the Enron thing. You know, you --

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: You could get your stock, but you could only get it if you left. You know, you couldn't, say, take pieces of it out at a time. And then they had -- they'd have a stock purchase plan. So I'd -- I'd, you know, through payroll, done -- done that.

DRUMMOND: Hmm.

FLEMING: But then at the -- the end results is that the pension plan, United stopped paying into it, so now, um, we re-- retirees, like in my era, our pension is paid by the, um, the Pension Patrol Board, or the Pension Guarantee Board.

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: PG, whatever.

DRUMMOND: Well, the -- and so -- were they put in place to cover pensions when --

FLEMING: Mm-hmm. When your -- when companies default.

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: Yeah. So, you know -- they --

DRUMMOND: So it's like insurance, kind of.

FLEMING: Yeah.

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: But it's -- it's sort of, um -- so as a result of that, you know, the pensions were not -- what you thought you were going to get when you retired, you didn't --

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: -- because of the way things were handled. And it was -- you kept 00:42:00making the concessions, and it, um -- you never recovered from that.

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: So you thought you were going to get, say, 30 or 40 thousand when things went back. Then they filed bankruptcy, so they reorganized, and, you know, it went in on a different level. So that's, um -- but fortunately because of the union, you know, you -- some things were able to -- to be kept in place.

DRUMMOND: Right.

FLEMING: Yeah.

DRUMMOND: Because you had some folks fighting --

FLEMING: Yeah.

DRUMMOND: -- for you.

FLEMING: Right.

DRUMMOND: Um, well before we move on, is there anything -- because you said you were a shop steward, or the equivalent of shop steward --

FLEMING: Mm-hmm.

DRUMMOND: -- in your -- so what were some of the things people would bring to you, working in that kind of environment?

FLEMING: I guess it was mainly about our scheduling.

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: Um, because we were a small operation, and we had different locations. And then, you know, with -- sometimes, uh, with the -- the management, and the 00:43:00little inner personality things. So --

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm. OK.

FLEMING: Yeah.

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: Yeah.

DRUMMOND: Um, OK. And then you retired around 2001. Is there anything else you want to say about your time with United, or any of that work, or being in the union, or anything that maybe we didn't cover --

FLEMING: Mm-mm.

DRUMMOND: -- or I didn't ask about?

FLEMING: No, no, no. I probably forgot a lot of things, but (laughs) I think we did the highlights of --

DRUMMOND: Yeah.

FLEMING: Yeah. It was a good career.

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: Good company to work for.

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: Um, many things have changed in the -- the industry.

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: And, um, I really sympathize with the -- with the people now that work for an airline, that, you know, you're -- the pay is low, the benefits -- you know, our benefits were cut considerably --

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: -- um, with the merger. So we -- you know, we used to be able to get 00:44:00unlimited, uh, travel benefits, as the employee, um, even retired. And your seniority was counted for. Now it's like we're at the bottom of the list. You know, so --

DRUMMOND: [Really?], so there was flights, like you could get so many flights a year for free? Is that what you mean?

FLEMING: Mm-hmm. As many as you wanted. Yeah.

DRUMMOND: Really?

FLEMING: As the employee. And then, we also, for -- um, we -- they had companion tickets --

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: -- that you could get 24 that would be, um, per segment. Um, so if you did a round trip, that would be two of those --

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: -- every year. And that you could just, you know, give them to whomever. Now all that's changed.

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: Yeah. So, um, I -- I don't think -- I -- I would recommend, um, the union, because if there had not been a union in place at the time, we would have really been just, like, out the door, (laughs) you know, with --

DRUMMOND: Yeah.

FLEMING: -- with very -- with nothing, and even -- even now, I think that it's -- it's so important that, uh, we keep our unions in place, and that we try to -- though we must, um, increase our -- our membership, we should go out for different -- other, um, areas of the workforce, --

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: -- you know, that maybe had not been traditional --

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: -- and --

DRUMMOND: Have you ever been to the Winpisinger Center --

FLEMING: Mm-hmm.

DRUMMOND: -- to take classes?

FLEMING: I've taken classes.

DRUMMOND: And they've got all the great, um, displays there --

FLEMING: Mm-hmm.

DRUMMOND: -- with the things people made.

FLEMING: Yeah.

DRUMMOND: So I always -- I was surprised. I would -- I don't have a union background.

FLEMING: Yeah.

DRUMMOND: Um, but the machinists make everything from rifles to --

FLEMING: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

DRUMMOND: -- to spaceship -- or -- not spaceship. That sounds like aliens.

FLEMING: Yeah.

DRUMMOND: But, you know, like --

FLEMING: Yeah. Right. I know.

DRUMMOND: Like -- like space shuttles, to condoms, to Harley Davids...

FLEMING: To Harley Davidson. Right, yeah, to --

DRUMMOND: There's crackers.

FLEMING: -- beverages. And companies --

DRUMMOND: Yeah.

FLEMING: -- that do those things. Yeah.

DRUMMOND: Yeah.

FLEMING: Some of the -- some of the products are just amazing.

DRUMMOND: Yeah.

FLEMING: Yeah. I've done, um, a number of classes down there, which is a wonderful experience.

DRUMMOND: Yeah. No, it's a wonder -- yeah. It's a wonderful place to go. So you were talking about 2001, and -- but you -- that has been about 12 years now.

FLEMING: Mm-hmm.

DRUMMOND: And -- but you're still very active with the union as a retiree.

FLEMING: As a retiree.

DRUMMOND: And so was it important for you to continue to be active, or -- j-- just based on your early, um, years of activism, when you were a -- when you were a young woman? Or is it something that you -- you know, did you say, this is something you -- I'm going to do, or did you retire, and then see a void that needed to be filled, and then sat down?

FLEMING: No, no. I didn't have didn't have any voids. (laughter) I didn't have any voids. As you could probably see, my other activities and organizations.

DRUMMOND: Yeah. Yeah. (laughs)

FLEMING: Yeah. Quite involved with, um, my community, my church, and, um -- and then this was, um, just important, that -- that we, as retirees, organize. You know, because we still have to make a difference.

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: And because a majority of our population is, um, aging, uh, we have the majority here, and -- and it's about a voice --

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: -- that we have to leave legacies for our -- our youth.

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm. Um, so I get under Maria Cordone.

FLEMING: Mm-hmm.

DRUMMOND: She started the Young Machinists program.

FLEMING: Mm-hmm.

DRUMMOND: And I believe you're participating in that here. Um --

FLEMING: No, I was not on one of those panels --

DRUMMOND: You -- you were not -- you were not on one of those panels? (overlapping dialogue)

FLEMING: No, but we, um -- myself --

DRUMMOND: But have you -- have you done that before?

FLEMING: Myself and Susan Taylor --

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: Um, we kind of -- Maria took us under her wings.

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: And at the time, there -- I don't think there were a lot of women in the retiree organizations.

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: And then women of color. So we were kind of (laughs) like, OK, we're going to do this. And we -- I want you all to get involved. And we just, like, it -- it's just so good.

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: It's, um, enjoyable. The people that you meet. And then, you know, you -- it's -- it's for a cause.

DRUMMOND: Yeah.

FLEMING: Yeah.

DRUMMOND: Yeah. So -- and you say she took you under her wing -- um, or her wings --

FLEMING: Mm-hmm.

DRUMMOND: -- to -- and sort of mentored you --

FLEMING: For the exposure. Yeah, the mentor, the exposure, and -- and -- exactly.

DRUMMOND: Guidance, and --

FLEMING: To--? Guidance.

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: The c-- you know, the classes, the -- and so forth.

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: Um, it was a wonderful opportunity to go to the, um -- the nomination in Denver, for, um, President Obama. And --

DRUMMOND: Nomination for the second term or the first?

FLEMING: The first.

DRUMMOND: The first term?

FLEMING: The very first one. Yeah.

DRUMMOND: Yeah.

FLEMING: Yeah. And we had, um --

DRUMMOND: Did you get to meet him?

FLEMING: No, but we were right there in the front. You know, where that --

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: -- blue carpet was.

DRUMMOND: Yeah.

FLEMING: Yeah. We had seats there. They told us, um, "We've got some special seats that folks had arranged."

DRUMMOND: Nice.

FLEMING: And that was just one of --

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: -- the most incredible experiences of a lifetime.

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: Um, four years ago, we were in Ohio, d-- campaigning there. And then this last -- I mean, eight years. So the last --

DRUMMOND: Yeah.

FLEMING: -- two campaigns, we were --

DRUMMOND: Yeah.

FLEMING: -- we went to Ohio. And the --

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: The driving around, meeting people, knocking on doors, and, uh --

DRUMMOND: Yeah. And that's sort of -- let me say, just typically, when they're -- when it's not a big election year --

FLEMING: Mm-hmm.

DRUMMOND: What are the some of the typical activities you do as a member of the IAM retirees?

FLEMING: Well, I've gotten, um, with the alliance. We're members of the alliance. And so, um --

DRUMMOND: The Alliance for Retired Americans?

FLEMING: Mm-hmm.

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: Yeah. I forgot to put that down there. (laughs) And I have been called upon to, um, go into testimony on the Hill, uh, with regard to Social Security, and Medicare, --

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: -- and rights for seniors. And so I've had a few, um, meetings, (laughs) and some press coverage. And one time --

DRUMMOND: Nice.

FLEMING: -- I was even, um, uh, interviewed on, uh, radio station in Ohio. We were -- and we're at Winpisinger. And --

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: Then another time, I was down there for a class, and then I came into DC, and, um, met with some of the -- it was another press conference, or -- for rights to work --

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: -- and so forth. So, um, Rich's fiesta -- fiesta. Yeah. His, um -- he's like, "Diane, can you -- can you go talk first?" Or whatever. And they usually give me a -- a script, and --

DRUMMOND: How nice.

FLEMING: -- and I ad lib, so --

DRUMMOND: Yeah.

FLEMING: Um.

DRUMMOND: But they send you out to sort of be their spokesperson.

FLEMING: Yeah. Yeah.

DRUMMOND: Interesting.

FLEMING: And so, you know, part of it is my story about my father, and Social Security benefits, how they help families, and what --

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: Uh, it's not just for older people. And then my mother, and -- just, you know, your own personal stories, and how the benefits have helped, and, uh -- and how --

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: -- they're needed. And there's no need for cuts or any of those things.

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: So, so that part has, you know -- we've become quite involved to...

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: And -- and --

DRUMMOND: And you're in the DC area --

FLEMING: Mm-hmm.

DRUMMOND: -- so you're close to the --

FLEMING: Yeah, I'm right at -- I'm right in the city.

DRUMMOND: -- near (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) headquarters.

FLEMING: Yeah.

DRUMMOND: Or the grand lodge (inaudible).

FLEMING: Right. Yeah.

DRUMMOND: OK. All right.

FLEMING: Yeah.

DRUMMOND: And, um, but then, specifically, you were saying last year, 2012, um, Ohio was a swing state.

FLEMING: Mm-hmm.

DRUMMOND: And they weren't sure if they were going -- if it was going to -- you know, the -- the votes were going to go to Romney --

FLEMING: Yeah.

DRUMMOND: -- or Obama. And, uh, talk a little bit about how you all decided to go in and work in that area.

FLEMING: Well, we were c-- we were called. It was a group of us that had worked the, the previous election. And, um, they needed people in Ohio. And we started 00:52:00out in Akron on this last time, and then -- yeah, it was Akron. Then we ended up -- that they needed more people in Toledo, so we went to Toledo. And we were there for four weeks, five weeks. And, came -- we -- I drove. Um, and I had just had thyroid surgery for cancer --

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: -- and so, I was like, "Oh, I'm... Yeah, I'm gonna do this." (laughter) And I was like, "Yes, I can do this."

DRUMMOND: Yeah.

FLEMING: So -- and, I, um, um... Yeah, so it was -- it was the group that had worked together before. And then, some additional people. And we were with the, um, the A -- uh, AF of L, I think it was.

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: The (inaudible) just -- we were out of their hall. And, you were given an assignment every day, and I don't know if you know Sam -- did you meet Sam (overlapping dialogue) Did you meet Sam (inaudible)?

DRUMMOND: I have met Sam. I didn't interview him, but I did meet him.

FLEMING: You didn't interview him? All right, that (overlapping dialogue; inaudible). (laughs) Yeah, um, we were kind of partners with the, with the driving, and Susan, and a few others that we had -- our, our core group. And it made a difference. There were areas that you went into that... I mean, I remember one -- one time it was this -- off the main road, this little dirt road -- the driveway. And this guy -- it was this truck. And he had this chain, and this dog. And he said -- we tried to say what we were there for. (laughs) And he said, "You know, you all just need to get the hell out of here." (laughs)

DRUMMOND: Mm.

FLEMING: And so, it was like a -- there was nowhere to turn around. It was so -- I was like, "Oh, Sam, what are we gonna do now?" (laughter) So, we had to back out. It was like, "Oh..."

DRUMMOND: Down the -- back up the dirt road.

FLEMING: Um, back up, and it was this dirt road. And it was like, "Oh, goodness." And there were some people that were not receptive at all. And then, there were others that were just openly warm and...

DRUMMOND: And you all targeted mainly union members, right?

FLEMING: Uh, n-- yeah, we did that. And then, um, you know, we kind of... There were sometimes we could -- we could address... Depending on what area we were covering, that you could cover, um, uh, the president and... And then, the day of, um, the early voting -- because you wanted to get people out for early voting, because you don't want the lines or the wait for as long as it had been in the previous election.

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: So, the early voting, there were other propositions going on, uh, with the gerrymandering, and they were trying to get that changed, but it didn't pass, because people weren't... It was a very long proposition, and it was not an easy one to explain, you know -- to bring it down to the basic. But once people understood, you know, they, they voted for it. But it... So, that was a -- um, that was an experience, with the early voting, that we went to the poll 00:55:00on that Sunday --

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: -- and, and talked to people, and... And then, um, you know, some of the areas, um, people s-- were very warm, and, you know, they had already voted, and, and so forth. So, um, I would definitely do it again.

DRUMMOND: Yeah?

FLEMING: And again.

DRUMMOND: Yeah?

FLEMING: Yeah.

DRUMMOND: And, um, so, in addition to being active with the retirees, you mentioned earlier you're, um, active with the Campbell AME Church. You're a trustee?

FLEMING: Mm-hmm.

DRUMMOND: And the Anacostia Garden Club --

FLEMING: Mm-hmm.

DRUMMOND: -- you're the president.

FLEMING: Yes. (laughs)

DRUMMOND: And what does the garden club do?

FLEMING: Well, we (laughter) -- we plant. Um --

DRUMMOND: Do you -- so, like, neighborhood plantings...?

FLEMING: Mm, right.

DRUMMOND: Beautification?

FLEMING: We have -- beautification, and one of the former members, who's now deceased, he -- our theme was "beautification depends on you." And I love flowers, and, and the beauty of, of that. So, uh, that's what we do.

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: Um, we also have a annual tree-lighting with another organization I belong to. We do a holiday tree in the park. And we, we, we dress that, um -- or decorate it, and the fire department helps, because it's gotten tall over the years.

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: And, um, it sits there for the season.

DRUMMOND: OK. So, it's the f--

FLEMING: Um, Far Southeast --

DRUMMOND: Far Southeast Family --

FLEMING: -- (inaudible) Strengthening Collaborative.

DRUMMOND: Family Strengthening Collaborative.

FLEMING: Collaborative -- families.

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: Yeah, so, we work with families and, um, yeah...

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: Um, yeah, for, um -- we have, like, a fatherhood initiative -- fathers with their children. And, it's, yeah, benefiting families and keeping families together, and that's the most important thing --

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: -- you know --

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: -- that leads to, um, just other positive things -- homeless families trying to find employment, and, um, places to live, and so forth. So, that's what that organization's about.

DRUMMOND: Mm, OK.

FLEMING: Um, the other one is the Anacostia Economic Development.

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: And that's about economic development in our area. We also provide a -- we have a scholarship foundation, which I have to leave Friday, tomorrow, to -- because our benefit is on Sunday.

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: And, and I'm the chairperson of that.

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: So... (laughs)

DRUMMOND: So, you raise money -- you have an event every year --

FLEMING: Right.

DRUMMOND: -- and raise money for the scholarships.

FLEMING: Right, we have two major events -- a, a golf tournament and the, um -- a, a brunch, uh --

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: -- to raise monies for the scholarship, which go for four years, as long as the student qualifies.

DRUMMOND: OK, so, they're for college.

FLEMING: Yeah, yeah, for college.

DRUMMOND: They're for... Wow.

FLEMING: Yeah.

DRUMMOND: And is there -- how much for the four years?

FLEMING: Uh, it can go anywhere from 500 to 2,500 per year.

DRUMMOND: Per year?

FLEMING: Mm-hmm.

DRUMMOND: OK. Wow.

FLEMING: Yeah.

DRUMMOND: Um, and Fair...?

FLEMING: Uh, Fairlawn.

DRUMMOND: Fairlawn, OK.

FLEMING: Fairlawn -- that's the area that -- yeah -- um, that I live in.

DRUMMOND: Citizen's Association.

FLEMING: Association, yeah.

DRUMMOND: So, you're the past president of that, and the current treasurer.

FLEMING: Yeah. (laughs)

DRUMMOND: And is that -- it's just like a neighborhood organization?

FLEMING: Yeah, it's our community organization --

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: -- for a certain radius of, of, of where we live.

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: Yeah.

DRUMMOND: And what kind of activities do you all...?

FLEMING: It's, it's -- we're very active with, um, um, political issues --

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: -- um, betterment of the community, um, zoning -- just, you know, issues of our community and city --

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: -- you know?

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: Yeah.

DRUMMOND: OK. So you are, indeed, busy.

FLEMING: Yeah. And so, I've been involved with, um -- we have, um, a Ward Eight -- the district has been divided into wards. We have one through eight, and I live in Ward Eight. Um, and so, we have the, uh, Ward Eight Democrats, so 00:59:00I'm a member of that.

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: And, I forgot that -- I guess, um, then I was the past -- let's see, in -- the -- our state committee, which would be all of the wards, and it's sort of a body of... Well, the, the district does not have voting rights.

DRUMMOND: Right.

FLEMING: So, um, this state committee is a group of activists, uh, that represent all the different wards and part of the city, so, I was, actually, in Brazil at the time when I was elected to that office. I wasn't even there. (laughter) And that is an elected office. You have to run for that. But, I'm pretty, um -- stay pretty connected, politically as well.

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: Not as much as I used to, but, you know, some things you just have to let go for a minute.

DRUMMOND: Yeah.

FLEMING: Yeah.

DRUMMOND: A minute or two.

FLEMING: Yeah.

DRUMMOND: So, um, you're still an activist.

FLEMING: Mm-hmm.

DRUMMOND: You're still supporting education.

FLEMING: Mm-hmm.

DRUMMOND: And this has, sort of, been a r-- your life.

FLEMING: Yeah.

DRUMMOND: This has, sort of -- you've found a way to do these things --

FLEMING: Yeah.

DRUMMOND: -- throughout your life. Um, what is one of the most important things for you about, um, being in the union? Or, not "one" -- what are the most important things for you about being in the union?

FLEMING: The solidarity that, that is -- and just the, the beliefs, um, and -- that -- and helping people -- all people. Yeah, as having seen the world segregated, and, and the world -- or, not the world, but... (laughs)

DRUMMOND: Yeah.

FLEMING: You know what I mean? Um, our country was -- with the different, um -- with the segregation and the integration, and you sometimes wonder what is best. But the union -- you know, it, it takes in all people. And then, it's just 01:01:00about helping people. I mean, some of the stories here -- you think that you have difficulties in life? I mean, I've been talking to some of the -- uh, our, our attendees. And they are just -- it's just incredible. It is so incredible that the -- the things that they have gone through, and they're still -- they're still active.

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: And they still have -- they believe -- uh, strong beliefs, right -- the right thing to do.

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: Yeah.

DRUMMOND: Well, have we not covered anything, or is there anything else you want to say, or anybody -- other people you want to mention that you...?

FLEMING: No, it's been just a, a wonderful experience -- um, exposure -- the exposure that I've had working with the retiree organization is -- has just 01:02:00been so, um -- so eye-opening. Yeah, I guess, that's, that's kind of it.

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: You know, it's a different world. You know, and I, I think we, as people -- we limit ourselves. And there's so--

DRUMMOND: We don't know what's possible.

FLEMING: Yeah, there's something new every day.

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm. OK.

FLEMING: So, um, but Maria, Charlie, and, and, and the other people that are in... One thing I, I found -- and I think maybe Susan -- that, um, I didn't really know that much about the structure of the union. (laughs) And that, you know, you have the -- you know, tell the -- I think we had asked people, you know, explain this to me, um, about your vice presidents, your reps, and this and that. And most of the people that we have worked very closely with have been, actually, officials -- you know, they've been on higher levels. (laughs)

DRUMMOND: Uh-huh.

FLEMING: (inaudible), what did you all do? Well, we're just members. (laughs)

DRUMMOND: They're not just members [then?].

FLEMING: Well, that's kind of the -- yeah, yeah, yeah.

DRUMMOND: I mean, that's the point, isn't it? That...?

FLEMING: Right, yeah, yeah. That's it. That's it. And we're all --

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: We're all here for the cause.

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: And, and the union is so -- you know, it's, it's somewhat about with -- it's, it's about rights -- about rights.

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: And we have -- we would not be to this point with, with benefits, with vacation, with pay, and -- which j-- is now trying to be destroyed. So, you know, things work, work in cycles, you know? And the order, but... I don't know.

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: I don't know. So...

DRUMMOND: Anything else?

FLEMING: (laughs) I think that's it.

DRUMMOND: Well, I want to thank you so much for sitting with me today and talking to me --

FLEMING: OK.

DRUMMOND: -- about your life and career. I very much enjoyed it.

FLEMING: Oh, thank you.

DRUMMOND: And I will turn off the recorder.

DRUMMOND: OK, we're back.

FLEMING: We're back.

DRUMMOND: One of -- one of the first things --

FLEMING: That one (inaudible) -- when, when I had planned my retirement, and I was gonna get, um -- at the number -- the money that -- the concessions that I had made with United, was gonna buy a PT Cruiser. They had just come out. 01:04:00(laughter) And I was gonna work at the Conservatory -- the Botanical Gardens. Well, I did get my (laughs) shirt for the Botanical Gardens, and I passed security --

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: -- and all of that. But I never became employed, because I just, like, oh, the schedule here. It's just not gonna work for me. Um, and didn't buy the PT Cruiser. It --

DRUMMOND: Yeah.

FLEMING: -- um, but, um, I do, um, work a little time in a consignment shop on Sundays.

DRUMMOND: Nice.

FLEMING: I normally, uh, maybe make more purchases than I get paid for. (laughs) And, also, um, with the, um, uh, DC Convention Center --

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: -- "Destination DC" -- um, when we have conferences, may-- large conferences, um, work as maybe a, um, registration person, um, fill bags or, um, the restaurant desk, and so forth. And those are just usually maybe three-, four-, five-day employments.

DRUMMOND: So, flexible things --

FLEMING: Yeah, flexible --

DRUMMOND: -- that work in with your schedule.

FLEMING: -- yeah, ex-- exactly. So, you know, I'm still -- um, still out there in the workforce.

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: And, um... Yeah.

DRUMMOND: Just can't stop.

FLEMING: Yeah, I can't stop. (laughter) Can't stop. And then, um, my, my mother has, um, Alzheimer's. So, it's j-- you know, trying to fit that in your family's schedule.

DRUMMOND: Mm-hmm.

FLEMING: And it's -- that's kind of such a devastating disease. Then, yeah...

DRUMMOND: My grandmother had it --

FLEMING: Yeah, yeah.

DRUMMOND: -- so I, I know.

FLEMING: And so -- so, that's -- I think that ends that part, Traci.

DRUMMOND: OK.

FLEMING: I did remember that.

DRUMMOND: OK.