PHILIP LAPORTE: -Georgia State University. The library at Georgia State
includes the Special Collections Department and the Southern Labor Archives is part of that Special Collections Department. This oral history project is under the direction of the labor archivist at Georgia State University, Lauren Kata. My name is Philip LaPorte. I am Director of the Labor Studies program at Georgia State University and I will be conducting the interview today of Mr. Herb Green. Today is Wednesday, January the 18th, 2006. The interview is being conducted at the United Auto Workers Local 10 Union Hall, located on Buford Highway in Doraville, Georgia. With me today is Mr. Herb Green. He is a retired UAW 00:01:00International representative. Mr. Green, Good morning!HERB GREEN: Good morning.
LAPORTE: Herb, Herb Green, could you tell me please, where were you born and the
year you were born.GREEN: I was born, the address, was Norcross, Georgia. The exact place was
approximately half way between Norcross and Doraville. The year and date was July 6, 1921.LAPORTE: Can you tell me about your parents, Herb? A little bit about your mom
and dad? 00:02:00GREEN: Yes. My mother's name was Thelma Corley before she married Craighton
Green. They both were born on farms. My Grandpa Green, my father's father, accumulated approximately 400 acres of land. He and my grandmother had 13 children, 9 boys and 4 girls. My mother's father had 60 acres of land and they had 12 children, they had -- I believe I'm right -- 9 girls and 3 boys. But 00:03:00not any of the boys lived to be grown. All 3 boys died as infants.LAPORTE: And your family, Herb, how many siblings did you have?
GREEN: I have 2, a boy and a girl. The girl is oldest.
LAPORTE: So you grew up in Norcross, Georgia, and Doraville. So between what is
now -- of course -- what is Gwinnett County and DeKalb County.GREEN: A little community called Mechanicsville.
00:04:00LAPORTE: Can you tell us about your working career? The first jobs you had, when
you first began working for a living.GREEN: Yes. My father went to work for Ford Motor Company when Ford was located
on Ponce de Leon, next to Sears and Roebuck. Sears used to have a place where they had a catalog store. You could order out of the catalog and it was -- I don't know the number of the street -- but it was Ponce de Leon and Ford Motor 00:05:00Company was adjacent to Sears and Roebuck and this was where they assembled the Model T and Model A. My father and three of his brothers worked at the Ford plant. They closed the Ford plant during the depression and they offered my father a job if he would move to Cincinnati, Ohio. He accepted the job, but he didn't move my mother and us three children to Ohio. So we continued to live 00:06:00here with one of my mother's sisters in Buckhead. So my father got to be an alcoholic. I'm sorry to have to say this. But he really got to be bad with alcoholism. He came back years later, and finally stopped drinking which was very good, but it was years later. My mother had some serious illness, and back in those days we had no money and she had to have some surgery. There was a 00:07:00country doctor in Norcross, Dr. Cane. He arranged for surgery at St. Joseph's hospital which was located downtown --LAPORTE: I think back then it was called St. Joseph's Infirmary.
GREEN: Yeah, and it was on that street, it's still there where the Hilton
hotel is downtown --LAPORTE: Courtland Street?
GREEN: Courtland Street was where St. Joseph's was at that time. They took my
mother, did the surgery, knowing we didn't have money to pay for it. I've 00:08:00always had a real soft spot in my heart for St. Joseph's. So I went to work for a drug store. I don't know, Philip, if you've ever heard of curb boys at a drug store. But back then, Lane's drug store, Jacob's, and Lynden-Robert -- which was independent -- they had curb boys. The car would drive in, I would go out and take their order, go in and get at the soda fountain, get the order filled, and take it back to the car. I was so small at that time. I had to stand 00:09:00on my tiptoes to fasten this tray to the car. So I did that -- for I believe it was 2 years. Then later -- I believe it was about 1934, '35, it could have been '36 -- we moved back in the house with my grandparents. At that time, one of my mother's sisters was living with my grandparents. She had never been married. She never did marry. She was like a second mother to us children. So we 00:10:00lived there and I worked on the farm. Worked with my Grandpa Green. Had a son that broke his leg and he made me a farm hand and I was a teenaged boy and I worked and lived with my Grandfather Green for one year.LAPORTE: So Herb, you were a car hop, or a curb boy, for the drug store and by
my calculations you were 13 and 14 years old those two years.GREEN: Yeah, I believe I started some younger, 10 to 11. They didn't pay me
00:11:00any money for working. The only money you got was tips and those tips came very slow. Very slowly. I can remember, Philip, I got a dollar and a quarter one night and I ran all the way home. (Laughs) Man, I was afraid I'd get robbed. You know, back in those days grown men were working for a dollar a day. Especially here in the south. There just wasn't any manufacturing jobs.LAPORTE: Then you went to work on the farms as a farmhand. What about your
00:12:00schooling, Herb? Did you attend public schools in Norcross up to a certain age?GREEN: Well, we had a one room, two room -- they finally made two rooms out of
this one large room -- and it was called Mechanicsville. I went to school there, three years. We had no plumbing in the building. We had no electricity. The boys -- teenaged boys, like myself -- would build fires in the potbellied stove, and there was a real nice spring, with nice, clear water that we got our drinking 00:13:00water and we had a bucket. We boys would rotate getting water from the spring. We did have a cooler. There wasn't any ice, but we had this -- it was a cooler. I call it a rock. Made out of rock. We'd take the bucket, get the water from the cooler, take it to the school house, and pour out from the bucket into the cooler. Then it would dispense for drinking. No facilities. We had a 00:14:00teacher that really -- she was concerned enough about her students. I was probably -- should have probably been more concerned myself. I was working in the fields, trying to make a little money because I needed some clothes. She thought I needed to be in school. She went to see my mother and ask her why I wasn't in school. My mother told her -- I think, and I'm pretty sure -- "He's at the neighbor's house plowing today to make some money." They 00:15:00came and got me out of the field and took me to the school. So I went. So she came and got me. It was better I go to school than even put up a disagreement.LAPORTE: Do you remember how old you were when the teacher came and got you out
of the field to take you to school?GREEN: I was 12 years old, maybe 13. I wasn't over 13.
00:16:00LAPORTE: Herb Green, you were born in 1921, so by 1941 you were 20 years old
when World War II began for the United States. Of course, you were 18 war when broke out in Europe. So those teenaged years you were in school and the field from 13 and then 5 years later you would have been 18 and war would have broken out. Do you remember those years, between 13 and 18, in school, working?GREEN: I worked at a -- you know, back then, several small dairies -- in fact,
there was a small dairy where the General Motors Plant is now. A lady by the 00:17:00name of Mrs. Della Maloney, she -- I would say -- she had probably 15 cows. She ran a small little dairy. She would take fresh milk into the places like Buckhead, Brookhaven, and into the city of Atlanta to customers she had. Sometime in the early 40s, she sold that property. Maybe she sold it to some real estate company, but it was sold for the General Motors Plant. But I worked 00:18:00there for the little dairy. The name of it was Sunrise. I stayed with the people; I had my room and board. The family treated me fine -- they had 3 boys and 1 girl. I worked 7 days a week, for 7 dollars a week and my board.LAPORTE: How old were you then, Herb?
00:19:00GREEN: I was probably, 13, 14, 15. I worked at one other dairy. There were quite
a few of these small dairies. Other than farming and saw mill work, small dairies was about all. I did work at a High Quality shoe factory just prior to going to work for -- it was a packing house. Swift and Company. This was a branch of Swift and Company, where they'd slaughter cows and pigs. I was 00:20:00working there when I was inducted into the service.LAPORTE: Where was that packing house, the slaughter house that was a division
of Swift and Company? Do you remember where it was located, Herb?GREEN: Yup. It's where the Atlantic Steel back there, and the Water Works in
that area. Those streets, they're really doing some overhaul work in there now.LAPORTE: That's 14th Street.
00:21:00GREEN: 14th and Ponders Avenue. I forget several streets. I know there's a
Wachovia bank is building a big, high, building there.LAPORTE: Do you remember the job you had at the packing house?
GREEN: Yes, I do. I worked in the box room. The boxes came all broken down and I
put them together by stapling them together. I put them on this cart and took them to the various locations -- for the different places that they packed the meat. 00:22:00LAPORTE: So it was boxed beef -- or boxed other type of meat products -- and you
distributed the boxes that were used to pack the meat.GREEN: Right.
LAPORTE: Do you remember what you got paid for doing that work?
GREEN: Yeah. I thought I was really making, really good money. 15 dollars a week
was my top pay. I started at 12 dollars a week, but when I got the top pay, it was 15 dollars. I might tell you a little story about that. We had one man that did all the hiring and firing. He didn't like city boys. If he thought you were raised in the city, he wouldn't hire you. So, he had a few canned 00:23:00questions. He'd say, 'Boy?', he'd call you boy, 'Boy, what's your name?' You'd tell him. This was when you were trying to get a job. You'd tell him your name. He'd say, 'Boy, where are you parked today?' You'd tell him where you parked. If you parked in a bad place, he didn't like that. Then he'd say, 'Boy, how old are you?' You'd tell him. He'd say, 'Boy, how much you weigh?' You'd give it. The last thing he would ask you, 00:24:00'Boy, where do you live?' So, the word got out that you don't tell him you live in town. You tell him you live in the country. So he got through the questions to the last one. He says, 'Now boy, where do you live?' He said, 'I live in Tucker, but I don't live right sock up in Tucker.' He didn't want him to think he lived in Tucker, but that was when there was nothing in Tucker but Cofer Brothers. So he didn't live right sock up in Tucker. (Laughs) 00:25:00LAPORTE: How old were you, Herb, when you were working there at the packing house?
GREEN: When I first went to work there I was 19, 20. Maybe. I probably turned 21.
LAPORTE: Was there any presence of unions at the packing house or any attempt by
the workers to organize at the packing house?GREEN: Yeah. Before I went to work there, I did work at the shoe factory. We
were going to organize and they closed the plant. It was a High Quality shoe factory on Whitehall Street. I only worked there -- I would say about 6 or 8 00:26:00months. Some of the people had some experience from Bonay Allen in Buford, and they had gotten fired from wanting a union so they were going to get a union there at High Quality. I was all for it. I knew my Daddy -- how hard he had to work at Ford, and they was trying to unionize. So I was right in with the group and Tennenbaum was the people's name that ran the shoe factory and they said, 'Boys, if y'all get a union here, we'll close this plant.' We didn't 00:27:00get a union, but they closed the plant before we could.LAPORTE: So then you went to work at the packing house. You said that there was
an effort to organize?GREEN: It was a branch of Swift and Company and they were organized up north in
some of the places. I'm trying to think -- White Provision was the name of the place and it was right in there on 14th and 15th, and the Water Works was right 00:28:00in that area. But the name of the business was White Provision a branch of Swift and Company. You know, sometimes, I'll wake up in the middle of the night and I'll think of it. You ever do that? You might not think of it. Of course, you're not -- I won't ask you your age because you're a lot younger than I am.LAPORTE: So, you were describing how some of the workers at White Provision, on
14th Street by the Atlanta Water Works, were attempting to organize. Can you tell us a little bit about those efforts? 00:29:00GREEN: What we -- you know, at lunch time we would maybe gather early, maybe we
went to work at 7:30 -- we'd try to get there 30 minutes or 45 minutes early. We'd talk about why. Why are the people in Chicago -- why should they be paid more than we are? We have to pay as much for a loaf of bread as they do. We would say, 'Oh, they'll tell us they'll close this plant and that they'll do this, but are we willing to take a chance?' I would say, now, 00:30:00when I look back on some of the places they closed like the shoe factory, it's the best thing that ever happened to me. If they hadn't I might have still been there trying to make a living. What we did was we worked piecework. My job was tacking the insole at the shoe factory. When I'd done a dozen pair of 00:31:00shoes I'd clip off this ticket and I'd turn them in -- on say Wednesday -- and that's what I'd get paid for on Friday. If I lost a ticket, I didn't get no pay. If something happened to the machinery, slowed me down, that's tough luck for me. A lot of people don't understand unions. All they know is what they read in the paper and what they hear on the TV. 90% of the strikes that we have is not about wages. I would hope someday we would be judged on 00:32:00really what we strike about and what the union's finished product is. What value it really is.LAPORTE: The workers at White Provision discussing the costs of food, a loaf of
bread, housing, clothing -- believe that they should be paid the same rate as workers in Chicago at the Swift Company. Then there was an effort to try to organize workers there at the Atlanta facility and what did that lead to, Herb? 00:33:00GREEN: Well, you see, I went into the service back in 1942 and when I came back
from service, they had built General Motors -- or started General Motors. The first car was run -- I think -- in 1947. I'm sure that's when the first car -- but, back then I don't believe we got them organized there. Those people 00:34:00that were in management was no different. They'd give raises and they would do better to the employees to keep the unions out. They really do a good job in most cases of keeping them out like they did in Hartwell, Georgia. I'm sure you remember sometimes about Hartwell when we were trying to organize the shock absorber plant. They promise you a lot of things, some of those things never happen. 00:35:00LAPORTE: So, you were drafted into, was it the US Army?
GREEN: Yeah, Air Corps. US Army Air Corps. How I got in the Air Corps, God only
knows, but I'm sure proud I did. Like I said, I'd never been far from Norcross or Doraville. I'd never been any further from home than Atlanta, when I went into the service. I can't remember how I got from where I lived to Lawrenceville. That was the county seat of Gwinnett County. They took us from 00:36:00Lawrenceville to Fort McPherson and we got our shots and things. The Army, or the government, always does things, it seems, wrong. They took me on Friday, and they took a bus load from Lawrenceville to Fort Mac, they gave us some shots, and they got on a PA system and said, 'Any of you that live near enough and can be back Monday morning, can get a weekend pass.' Here they are, taking us on Friday. So, naturally, I rush up there and get me a weekend pass. That's 00:37:00when we had -- I believe what we call trackless trolleys. You remember? I'd get on a trolley and go to Oglethorpe. That was as far as they'd go, north. I'd hitchhike on home. We had a long driveway going up to my grandfather's house. So my mother saw me walking up the front and she met me, and she said, 'What are you doing coming back?' And I said, 'Mom, they treat you like dogs.' I just climbed a fence and left. I'm going to hide [inaudible] and my 00:38:00sister, who was named Dorothy, I said, 'Y'all can bring me food over there. I'll go hide out.' She said, 'Young man, you're not going to embarrass this family. You march yourself back.' So then I had to tell her I had the weekend pass. There I was getting off and I had to go back. I had to hitchhike Monday morning and go back. So I was there -- I believe I was there the rest of the week. They put us on a troop train. You know where I ended up? Atlantic 00:39:00City, New Jersey. Living in one of the hotels while we got our drill right out on the boardwalk. I used to tell those Yankees, 'We pulled in here on a troop train, I looked out the window, I saw this big, black policeman, I said, 'My Lord, they done shipped me to Africa!'' (Laughs) I said, 'How did I get to Africa without getting on the water?' I'd never seen a black policeman! Atlanta didn't have no black policemen. You know what they do from then on, they always called you by your last name. They'd say, 'Green! Come over. 00:40:00Tell us about your trip you made to Africa!' (Laughs) The Army Air Corps took over all those hotels right there on the boardwalk. We drilled.LAPORTE: The first black police officers were 8 black police officers and they
were restricted to patrolling Auburn Avenue. It was revolutionary at the time, but that was to the lobbying of Maynard Jackson's grandfather, called "The Grand", John Wesley Dobbs.GREEN: What year was that?
LAPORTE: Ahhh, testing my memory, it is recorded in the book, Where Peachtree
00:41:00Meets Sweet Auburn, but I believe it was either in the late 1930s or early 1940s. That was restricted to Atlanta and restricted to Auburn Avenue. So black police officers were not patrolling the streets in Gwinnett County and Lawrenceville, or Norcross or anywhere. So that's right. It would have been a new experience for you in 1942 to see African-American police officers in the state of New Jersey. So you drilled on the boardwalk in Atlantic City. The Miss America pageant was not being held at that time, correct? So then you spent how many years in the US Army Air Corps?GREEN: 3 years, 6 months, and 21 days.
00:42:00LAPORTE: What year were you discharged?
GREEN: '46.
LAPORTE: Do you remember anything in particular about your years of service. It
was the height of World War II of course.GREEN: Yeah, I serviced the Bomber that bombed Hiroshima, and it stopped in
Okinawa. I was stationed in Okinawa and we serviced the plane. The war ended 00:43:00while I was on Okinawa. Myself and two other friends were riding in the Jeep one Sunday morning. We hadn't been able during the war to see much of Okinawa. We had stayed close and stayed down low most of the time. We were up on this -- what they call a [inaudible] and this ton and a half truck hit us and killed the solider that was driving the Jeep. I was in the middle and the fella on the right hand side broke his hip. It broke my shoulder, and like I say, killed the 00:44:00fella that was driving. We went through the war and none of the three of us were injured and here one got killed and the other two of us got injured. That was a real tragedy. So we had to stay there in Okinawa for a while and then went to Japan, until they got a replacement.LAPORTE: So, you were there in Japan at the end of the war, which would have
00:45:00been August of 1945?GREEN: Well, I was on Okinawa at the end. But they shipped on into Japan.
LAPORTE: So you were part of the occupying force, the U.S. Army occupying force
in Japan after the Japanese had unconditionally surrendered to General Douglas MacArthur.GREEN: I feel that was a benefit to me now. I really wanted to go home and not
go into Japan. But since it happened like it did it gave me the opportunity to go into Japan. I've been to Japan since there, but I don't know if I would 00:46:00have gotten to go.LAPORTE: You then shipped back to the United States. Do you recall where you
were discharged from the Army?GREEN: Fort Mac.
LAPORTE: Back to Fort McPherson, where you had arrived originally by bus and
then departed by trolley and hitchhiking. So you returned and you were discharged and came back to Atlanta. And that was 1946?GREEN: Yes.
00:47:00LAPORTE: As I understand it, you serviced the Enola Gay, the plane that dropped
the Atomic Bomb in Japan, either Hiroshima or Nagasaki. I understand that your future wife was working at the Bell Bomber Plant, which is now the Lockheed Martin facility in Marietta that builds the C-130J and the F-22 Fighter Aircraft, that she worked on that plane. You serviced the plane, and it became the plane that dropped the A-Bomb that in effect ended Japanese resistance and brought about an end to World War II.GREEN: Yup, that's right. It's amazing how things came about by working
00:48:00there in Bell Bomber on this plane and me being in service stationed there and servicing the plane and then she and I getting married.LAPORTE: Ironies are rich in life, aren't they?
GREEN: They sure are.
LAPORTE: So, back to Fort McPherson and you were discharged from the US Army Air
Corps. What did you do once you left the Army, once you had been discharged?GREEN: Well, I went to work for Crane Heating Company. Worked on furnaces,
installing furnaces and air conditioning units. I worked there until I went to 00:49:00work for General Motors. Went to work for General Motors in 1949, January 1949.LAPORTE: How did you come to go to work for General Motors?
GREEN: General Motors, being right close to where I lived and grew up. My father
worked at Ford and realizing that the automobile assembly plants paid a sizable 00:50:00increase in salaries -- especially in this part of the country -- in the South -- I felt that they might be a better opportunity to improve my financial status.LAPORTE: It is often been said that the best paying jobs available to a wage
earner -- a working person -- an hourly employee -- are in the automobile industry. Some would say that's still true today. That was the case for you in 1949, when you went to work for General Motors? 00:51:00GREEN: Yeah. It was the case back then, and I believe, still is.
LAPORTE: Do you recall what you were earning on a weekly basis at Crane Heating
versus what your earnings were at General Motors?GREEN: Approximately -- At Crane I was earning approximately 60 dollars a week.
00:52:00This is including the fringe benefits, which was very few. General Motors was, I would say about a 1/3 more than I would make at Crane Heating.LAPORTE: So if your annual wages at Crane were approximately $3,000 a year in
1947 and General Motors you would earn a 1/3 more and that would be approximately $4,000 per year. Does that sound accurate? 00:53:00GREEN: I would say that would be about as accurate as I can remember.
LAPORTE: So you applied for a job at General Motors. You recall, you had a
father that worked for Ford and three uncles that worked at Ford. So there was a history in your family of working in the automobile industry. So you applied for a job and can you tell us about going to work for General Motors? Do you get questions about where you lived and how much you weighed, etc? Or was it different?GREEN: I got the questions, but it was quite different. You had a written
questionnaire. At the packing house before I went into the service they didn't 00:54:00have any written questions. They just did it all orally. But this was written. You had to fill out a questionnaire. I filled it out and from the best of my memory, approximately one week later after making application for employment I was called to come to work.LAPORTE: Do you remember what your first job was at General Motors?
00:55:00GREEN: Yes. My first job -- I was assigned to the body shop. It was removing
what we call the gates, which was made out of iron that held the body together while they were being welded. When the body reached me on this assembly line, I would remove one side of the gates where the body could process on to be further 00:56:00down the line.LAPORTE: Do you remember how many people were employed at the General Motors
assembly plant in Doraville when you first came there in 1949?GREEN: There was only, I would say -- we were running a small amount of cars per
00:57:00hour there. I would say less than 15 per hour. Maybe, 10 cars per hour. At the time I left General Motors, we were averaging approximately 1 car per minute -- 60 cars per hour.LAPORTE: The number of people that were employed -- we know today in 2006, there
are approximately 3,200 employees at the General Motors Doraville plant. In 00:58:001949, when you started, do you remember how many people were employed at the General Motors Doraville plant?GREEN: I would say probably, maybe, 5 to 7 hundred.
LAPORTE: Herb, when you came to work there in 1949, did the UAW already
represent workers at GM Doraville? Had the union established its presence there already?GREEN: Yeah.
LAPORTE: So a contract was in place and how were you introduced to the UAW when
00:59:00you came to work at General Motors in 1949?GREEN: Well, I had heard -- you know how things travel, especially -- I first
heard that you cannot join in union until you're there for 90 days. Well, that was just talk, because you can join the first day if you want to. I had heard this, so I started inquiring about the union because I knew what my dad and his brothers had went through at Ford, because Ford was the last group of employees 01:00:00-- after GM -- to join the union. So I was anxious to find out. Just if there was any set time and when I found out, I joined. Then I found out what you needed to do to get to be a committeeman or an alternate committeeman, and what you needed to qualify. So I found that out pretty quick. 01:01:00LAPORTE: So you came to work and found out that you could join the union right
away -- that you didn't have to wait for this 90-day period. So you joined right away and took to it quickly in terms of finding out what you needed to qualify to be a committee man. So do you recall your committeeman, and were you invited to join the union by committeeman in the area that you worked?GREEN: I first was invited to run and I was elected as alternate committeeman. I
01:02:00served as an alternate committeeman for a short period of time which was approximately one year.LAPORTE: Do you remember when that was Herb? You were elected as the alternate committeeman?
GREEN: Sometime in 1950. I believe it was toward the end of 1950.
LAPORTE: So you had worked at the plant for a year, or 18 months, and then you
were elected as an alternate committeeman. You served in that office for a year's time?GREEN: Yeah. What happened -- the committeeman was laid off for what they
01:03:00accused him of doing was causing a Wildcat strike. They accused him of leading some people out. I believe -- I can't remember, but it's on record -- I believe, here at the local -- how much lay off he got and was charged with causing an unauthorized strike, some sit-down or something, in the body shop. 01:04:00Stevens, he died this past year.LAPORTE: So he was laid off, did the company actually suspend him and charge him
with causing an unauthorized strike, sit-down as you say, in the body shop and Mr. Stevens was suspended from work for perhaps 30 days?GREEN: I believe so. My mind's not real clear on that, but I took over while
he was out.LAPORTE: So you went from being the alternate committeeman to being the
committeeman for that period of time that Mr. Stevens was out. I see. So you 01:05:00took over his duties and can you remember some of those duties? Some of those things you did as committeeman?GREEN: Oh yeah. Back then, there wasn't any full-time committeemen, so you had
to -- they allowed you so much time a week and if you ran out of that time in one day, you just didn't have any more time for the rest of the week or month or whatever. My memory's not well enough to remember just what it was. I'm 01:06:00sure there's a record here. I used to want -- when a foreman would have an employee who wanted me as their committee man, I made sure they didn't charge me more time than I used. So my time wouldn't be used with me not using it. We had to watch it real close, because them foremen would charge you for time you didn't use.LAPORTE: Many contracts, even today, restrict the amount of time that a working
committee man or working job steward can devote to union business. When you 01:07:00first worked as a committee man, as a UAW representative, that was the provision in the contract. You were restricted in the amount of time that you could conduct union business.GREEN: They didn't let you go over one minute. You went back on your job. My
job was metal finish.LAPORTE: Did you receive any training before you assumed the duties of
committeeman on the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement?GREEN: Well, the only training I received was from R.L. Stevens. Steve I called
01:08:00him, Big Steve. I would talk with him and we had our first union hall here in Doraville at the back of a feed store. They had a feed store here in Doraville and we had a little -- I would say a space about half this size, behind -- it was inside, but it was at the back of the feed store.LAPORTE: So you're describing a size that's approximately 10 feet by 5 feet,
50 square feet at the back of a feed store.GREEN: In Doraville, yes. The people that owned and ran the feed store was union
01:09:00minded enough to let us use that. Martha Henderson, who you probably knew before she retired, she was our secretary.LAPORTE: Martha Henderson had over 50 years' service to this local union. She
had the institutional memory of Local 10 in Doraville. But I did not know Martha Henderson started her career in the back of a feed store in Doraville, as her services as secretary of UAW Local 10. So as a committeeman, you represented workers, you adjusted grievances, can you tell me some of your experiences in that role as a committeeman? 01:10:00GREEN: I remember right well, and I'm pretty sure it was Pontiac that had the
large trunk. We called it the deck lid. The deck lid had to be hoisted -- hoisted isn't the word I want to use right there. Had to be manhandled off of the feeder line to the assembly line to go on the deck of the car. It had got so 01:11:00large. I felt it was too large for one person to handle. Under the contract we had paragraph 78. I'll never forget paragraph 78 which dealt with overload. It prohibited management from assigning overload. So, I wrote a grievance on this. 01:12:00It happened to this fella. He was having to take this deck lid -- it's what we called them, deck lids -- off of that feeder line, off of that, over to the main, fasten it on. So I wrote -- the management people were telling me that he's got plenty of time to do that. I said, 'I'm not talking about time. The man, it's really ruining his health. He'll never live long enough to 01:13:00draw his pension. I want some help on getting the deck lid on.' '78 -- paragraph 78 don't apply. He's got plenty of time.' 'I told ya! I'm not talking about time. I'm talking about the energy he has to perform.' So, I came in one morning, they had great big guy, he must have been about 6 foot 2 or 3, with great big hands as big as a horse's hoof. Had him assemble. I said, 'Look, you're not going to beat my grievance by hiring a giant. You done hired a giant. The grievance is on the job.' So they finally put in a hoist 01:14:00that had suction cups on it and they'd take the hoist, put it on the deck lid, and take it over. So that's what happened.LAPORTE: So your grievance led to the job being re-engineered to diminish the
weight and stress that an individual worker was required to lift to take the deck lid from the feeder line to the assembly line. Well, good for you. So you mentioned it was a Pontiac. 01:15:00GREEN: It could have been a 98 Olds. I owned an Olds one time -- a 98 -- and
this was either one of the large Pontiacs or a 98 Olds. One of those two.LAPORTE: Do you remember some of the different models that have been assembled
here at the Doraville facility? When I first came, it was the Oldsmobile Cutlass and the companion car was the Buick Century. I know they've had Oldsmobile 01:16:00Cutlass, several different models. It was the Ciera back then. Do you remember some of those? You mentioned Olds 98. Do you remember some of the other models that you worked on here?GREEN: Buick LeSabre, Grand Prix --
LAPORTE: Pontiac Grand Prix, yeah. 1984, in that year, the Oldsmobile Cutlass
Supreme was the number one selling nameplate in America, the best-selling car in 01:17:00the United States.GREEN: And a good looking car.
LAPORTE: There were Cutlass Clubs all over the United States. In fact former
Senate Fowler drove an Oldsmobile Cutlass and would not give it up when he went to Washington. He took it with him and he was the only member of the United States Senate that was driving a car that was 20 model years old.GREEN: Roadmaster. Used to be the Roadmaster, Buick.
LAPORTE: Then, of course, it went from the Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera and Buick
Century, to the GM Ten Model, which was the remodeled Oldsmobile Cutlass 01:18:00Supreme. Then, following that, if I recall, the Doraville plant got the minivan. It was the second generation of the General Motors minivan, it was the Chevrolet Venture, the Oldsmobile Silhouette, and another model -- oh, of course -- the Pontiac Transport, originally. But then they sold so many Montanas, that they just ended up calling it the Pontiac Montana. The next generation of that minivan is what currently is being assembled at the Doraville plant. So, if we can turn back -- you were a committee man. One of your memorable grievances was on paragraph 78, on the overload. 01:19:00GREEN: Another was foremen working. We had -- instead of getting enough hourly
workers, these foremen -- wanting to keep their requests down low for more help -- they would jump in when needed. They would jump in and help. We would have quite a few grievances written on foremen working.LAPORTE: So the foremen were restricted from doing bargaining unit work, correct?
GREEN: Right.
LAPORTE: How were you able to resolve those grievances?
01:20:00GREEN: Well, we'd write a grievance. I would write a grievance as a
committeeman and have it my personal grievance, not having adequate man power -- hourly man power.LAPORTE: Did you then stand for election as a committeeman?
GREEN: Back when I first ran, we'd have to have an election each year, every
year. I had to be elected every year. As long as I was in the plant. For 12 years, I was elected every year. I never was defeated. 01:21:00LAPORTE: Were all the elections as a committeeman from the body shop?
GREEN: No. Well, for committeeman it was. Then I ran as Chairman and I had to
run plant-wide.LAPORTE: So, if I have it correct Herb, between 1950 and 1962, you were elected
12 straight years as a committeeman.GREEN: Yeah.
LAPORTE: When were you elected Shop Committee Chair?
GREEN: That was in 1954. Part of the 12 years I was elected the Chairman and not
01:22:00the committeeman.LAPORTE: In the UAW's organizational structure, Chairman of the Shop Committee
is one of the most important jobs in the entire local union. The chairman of the shop committee, who knows more about what goes on in the day to day operations of that plant, than anyone else.GREEN: That's right. More than the President of the Local.
LAPORTE: The organizational structure has been described as Mr. Inside, the
Chairman of the Shop Committee, and Mr. Outside, the President of the Local Union. You think that's a fair description?GREEN: I do.
LAPORTE: It's been described that the big 4 are the Chairman of the Shop
01:23:00Committee, the President of the Local Union, the Labor Relations Director, and the Plant Manager. Was that your experience as well?GREEN: Yup.
LAPORTE: Do you remember some of the general managers that you worked with as
Chairman of the Shop Committee?GREEN: Yeah.
LAPORTE: Did you work more with the Plant Manager, or the Labor Relations
Director, or both?GREEN: Labor Relations Director. Very seldom did I, as the Chairman of the Shop
Committee, work with the Plant Manager. Unless you were about to take a strike 01:24:00vote or go on strike or something, then you would have. If he thought he might prevent a strike, then he would come in. We never had a woman plant manager. I see where Ford has got a woman Plant Manager. That's not bad, I'm just -- I'm sure a woman can do the job.LAPORTE: The Lakewood General Motors plant, when they had their revitalization,
it was a woman who was the Plant Manager.GREEN: She was?
LAPORTE: Yes. And that was, of course, Local 34. But here at Local 10, the
General Motors facility, the assembly plant in Doraville, you served as Chairman of the Shop Committee and how long did you hold that title Herb? 01:25:00GREEN: Well, I took it in 1954 and then I was appointed to the staff in -- I was
elected Chairman in 1954 and I was appointed to the staff in 1964. So I was Chairman 10 years. 01:26:00LAPORTE: So an entire decade of probably the greatest growth that the American
automobile industry experienced, from 1954 to 1964. That was the period, of course, when it was said, what's good for General Motors is good for the country. That was the period that General Motors had over 50 percent of market share in the United States. During that time period you were Chairman of the Shop Committee, did you see growth at the Doraville Assembly plant in terms of number of people that worked here?GREEN: Oh yeah. At one time, during that time, we had 4,400 hourly workers.
01:27:00LAPORTE: That was in the late 50s, early 60s?
GREEN: That was -- that was prior to '54. Just prior to '54. When Eisenhower
was elected President, when he was -- I believe it was the 2nd year he was in his first term, we lost one shift of employees. So this was during his first term we had the 4,400. 01:28:00LAPORTE: So that was 1953, January 1953, Eisenhower took office after the
election in November 1952. So it perhaps was there if in 1954 you lost the shift. Do you remember what model you were making back then? 1954? Was it Oldsmobile again?GREEN: I believe it was the BOP model.
LAPORTE: BOP, of course, stands for Buick, Oldsmobile and Pontiac. The day to
day relationship of making the plant run, keeping efficiency and making sure the contract was abided by -- the key personally was the Chairman of the Shop 01:29:00Committee and the Labor Relations Director, correct?GREEN: Yup.
LAPORTE: So you were there for 10 years in that position and how many Labor
Relations Directors did you have to train?GREEN: Two.
LAPORTE: Two? So, 5 years each, or was it 8 one and 2 another? One longer?
GREEN: I believe it was probably, maybe, 7 and 3. Frank Shodered and -- I'll
think of the other one -- there was two of them. 01:30:00LAPORTE: Do you recall, Herb, if you had any of the grievances that you wrote or
aware of, or approved as Chairman of the Shop Committee that ever made it to the umpire from the Doraville plant?GREEN: Yeah.
LAPORTE: Under the United Auto Workers contract with General Motors, there's a
4 step grievance procedure and the last step in that grievance procedure is for the grievance to go to what is referred to as the umpire. In most Collective Bargaining Agreements, it's described as the arbitrator. General Motors and the UAW have had a long series of permanent umpires that have been some of the 01:31:00leading voices in the field of labor relations. Yale Law Professors, Harvard Law Professors, that the UAW and General Motors get nothing but the very top people in the field of labor relations to serve as the umpire. Was there a case in Doraville that made it, that went all the way up to see the umpire?GREEN: I'll tell you something if I could --
LAPORTE: Let me ask you this, Herb. You mentioned earlier that there was a
limited amount of time that a committee man had to work on union business and adjust grievances.GREEN: Right.
LAPORTE: At some point, the UAW and General Motors entered into an agreement
that the committee man would be a full-time committee. Do you remember when that 01:32:00was? Was it doing your time as Chairman of the Shop Committee? 1954 to 1964?GREEN: I think it was full-time for a portion. Maybe the Chairman was full-time,
not for the blanket [inaudible]. There were four different types: the District Committee, the Shop Committee, and the Zone Committee and then the Chairman of the Committee. Four different types of committees. So, I'm sure -- I say I'm 01:33:00sure that the Chairman got full time before the other three. But I'm not sure just how each one came in. It gradually -- I tell some of these committees now, 'You don't know how fortunate you are.' I said, 'Used to, when I was having to run, I'd ask them to vote for me today, I'd get elected tomorrow, and I had to start back again.' [Laughs] 01:34:00LAPORTE: -- Chairman of the Shop Committee here at Local 10 for 10 years,
between 1954 and 1964 and you were relaying a story to me about your encouraging management to adjust a job, to put a pit in so that workers would have to stretch so much in applying tires to the car. Can you give us a little description of that effort?GREEN: Yes. Over in the chassis department, we were running 60 jobs per hour.
The tires were mounted on the wheels upstairs and they were coming down these 01:35:00shoots to be mounted on the car, on the frames. The employee who was doing this job, had to get in a stooped position to do this particular job. So I was talking to management about some way this employee could stand up straight and put these wheels and have the strength to tighten without being in the stooped position. You can't do this hour after hour after hour and live to retire. But no, they say he's got plenty of time. I said, 'We're not talking about time. We're talking about the position. I suggested that they dig a pit like 01:36:00we have in some areas. Oh, they couldn't do that. So I said, 'Well, we may have to take a strike vote.' It rocked on a few weeks and we did, we took a strike vote. After taking this vote, we notified the plant and after a week went by they did recognize they could dig a pit and they did it over a weekend. No 01:37:00one lost any time, the people can install the wheel and stand up straight. We got the grievance settled without a strike.LAPORTE: So a little leverage goes a long way in terms of encouraging management
to adjust the job.GREEN: It sure does.
LAPORTE: So you experienced being a committeeman, where your time was limited.
You also experience being a full-time Chairman of the Shop Committee. Can you describe the experience at General Motors Doraville in terms of the shop committee man ability to resolve grievances at the lowest level possible? Right at the shop floor level. 01:38:00GREEN: Yes, you know, if your time is limited you receive a call from someone
that may be across a ways from the work you work. You have to go from your location to answer that call to the other location. You get assigned by the person that's calling you to solve a grievance and his foreman signs you in and then sends it to the time. You have to be careful you don't use too much time and you run out of time before the day is half over. So there's a great 01:39:00deal of time that you can use where there's unlimited time, when the committee man has the time to look things over and suggest the corrections to things they've helped solve. So it works both ways. Since we have unlimited time for Chairmen and other people in the plant, it's really helped management as well as its helped committee men. It works both ways. 01:40:00LAPORTE: So the number of grievances -- in one facility in Georgia, there are so
many grievances that there are literally two grievances for every bargaining unit employee. Can you tell us the number of grievances at the General Motors facility in terms of the number and has the committee men's ability to solve problems kept those active grievances that didn't even get to the second step at a relatively small number.GREEN: It's my understanding that the grievance load -- and we used the term
load -- is very light since they have full-time union representatives. When I was a committee man, it makes a great difference and I believe management will 01:41:00also tell you it makes a big difference. It works very well. If you have time to even get better acquainted with management versus committeemen or stewards, which ever you want to call them. So it's good to work this way.LAPORTE: Your experience in coming to work at General Motors Doraville in 1949
was after the passage of the Taft-Hartley Amendments to the National Labor Relations Act. So you, as a union official, experienced workers in Georgia 01:42:00having the option of joining the union or not joining the union and receiving the same negotiated wage level, benefits, and representation rights. How did you as a UAW official handle that challenge to maintain a high level of membership here at Local 10 in Doraville?GREEN: Well, you know, most of the people who worked in the GM plant at
Doraville are sensitive to the fact that if you receive the benefit that the union enabled you to receive, they want to be a part of it. You explain to them 01:43:00when they begin work that we do have a union and these unions will represent them and represent them well. We explained the meeting times and we surely invite them to come to the union meetings and give them the dates and also tell them they would be sworn in if they come down at the prescribed time. We don't want you to work in here without being recognized as one of us. So normally, not 01:44:00very often, do we find people that want to accept the benefit and not be a part of the union.LAPORTE: It's my understanding that out of over 3,000 bargaining unit
employees at the Doraville plant that there are less than 30 who choose not to belong to the union.GREEN: That's what I've been told, and I believe that's a very good
number. The union people here have done a good job on letting the people know 01:45:00what the union can do for them.LAPORTE: Herb Green, do you think that the fact that the UAW has a full-time
committee present at the plant, so that workers can see a union representative there, representing their interests on a daily basis contributes to the high rate of membership for this UAW local in Georgia?GREEN: I'm sure by having the time to explain and to work with management on
getting the best job done, it not only helps solve this job, it helps solve problems and sell cars. You know? Selling automobiles today is a real 01:46:00competitive business. The more cars we can sell today, the better we can serve the people; we can get improvements in our fringe benefits as well as our wages.LAPORTE: The Doraville assembly plant as a reputation throughout the General
Motors system as being a hard working plant. That if you are going to be employed there, you are going to work a full day. The plant as also been cited for its high level of Labor-Management cooperation and level of productivity. In 01:47:00your 50 plus years being associated with Local 10 and General Motors Doraville, what do you attribute that reputation to?GREEN: Well, we had a retirees meeting at the Local 10 yesterday. A report was
given by the present Chairman and the President of Local 10 and both of these men expressed good reports on the quality and the report from General Motors 01:48:00people from the report they give on the productivity and other measurements. I'm not sure at just how they arrive at their way of measuring things, but they gave good reports yesterday. I'm proud to be a retiree member of the Local 10. I believe all of our over 3,000 members that's retired as well as the 3,000 that working, are proud to be a member and retired from GM at Doraville. 01:49:00LAPORTE: Your career here, you left as Chairman of the Shop Committee in 1964?
GREEN: That's right.
LAPORTE: You were appointed as an International Representative by the UAW, is
that correct?GREEN: That's correct.
LAPORTE: So you left the environs of Doraville, Georgia -- having been born and
grown up in Norcross and then working in Doraville, you left to go to the UAW International office and that was located where? 01:50:00GREEN: In Smyrna, Georgia on Highway 285, just off of 85, I would say about a 15
minute drive from Local 10, maybe 20 minutes depending on traffic.LAPORTE: So your promotion and appointment as an International Representative,
you left and on a journey of 20 minutes. You took up the position of UAW International Rep. in 1964 and what were your job duties there as UAW International Rep?GREEN: I was assigned to the Education and Political Action Department.
01:51:00LAPORTE: What were your duties as International Representative assigned to the
Education and Political Action Department?GREEN: I would meet with the local education committee. Each local union under
the by-laws and constitution of the UAW, it's required to have an Education Committee and a Citizenship and Political Action Committee. My jobs was to meet 01:52:00with these committees and to explain and present my knowledge of what they should be doing to promote these committees. Both in and out. When I say in, I mean in the community where they live and political arena where they should be involved. 01:53:00LAPORTE: Who appointed you to international staff in 1964?
GREEN: Well, it's a regional director with the President's approval, the
President of the UAW.LAPORTE: The President in 1964 was Walter Ruther?
GREEN: Walter Ruther.
LAPORTE: Did you have the occasion to meet Walter Ruther?
GREEN: Oh yes.
LAPORTE: Do you recall the first time you met Walter Ruther?
GREEN: Well, I had met Walter Ruther prior to going on the staff. I met him in
01:54:001951 when I was a delegate to the National Convention.LAPORTE: 13 years later, Ruther approved your appointment as an International representative.
GREEN: Yes.
LAPORTE: Did you have the opportunity to work with Walter Ruther on different
projects UAW sponsored?GREEN: Yes. When I was Chairman of the Local 10 Bargaining Unit, we had a unit
01:55:00attached to the skill trades union and it was only 2, maybe 3, classifications. One was cardboard bailing. The other was janitor/sweeper. Those was the 2 classifications, but the classifications were attached to the skill trades department. Those two classifications could not transfer to the production classifications, which were the classifications on the production lines 01:56:00assembling cars. The reason for that, was to keep the races segregated. I inherited this when I took over as Chairman, when we had the layoff back in 01:57:001954, we lost one full shift. I was told I was going to have to do away with these two classifications. We were going to call people back with less seniority then some of the production workers that were classified as a similar job, as painters, or other classifications that had less seniority than they had. I said I would not agree to that. Now, when we are all called back, I will agree to do 01:58:00away with having these two classifications attached to the skill trade classifications. We had a hard time getting this done, but eventually that's the way it was done. When I really stood my ground and held out, I didn't think at that time, I'd ever be working full-time for the UAW International. 01:59:00But Walter Ruther didn't hold that against me and approved me to go to work for him.LAPORTE: Well, that's fine. What I'm getting out of that, is that you were
going to uphold the principle of seniority. Ruther is oft quoted as saying that seniority knows no race, seniority knows no genders, seniority rewards the service you have provided.GREEN: I said, 'Look! You're going to tell me what you set up to be sacred,
it was sacred when you had it, and what are you going to do with it now? 02:00:00You're telling me I've got to take this to the membership now. I won't do it!' That was hard for me to do. I tell you. I felt like a [Inaudible] boy.LAPORTE: Well, the same principle of being honest with the top leadership of the
organization was the same principle that you adhered to and was recognized by the plant manager here at Doraville when you left to go to the international staff. Can you tell us about that? 02:01:00GREEN: (Laughs) Well, there were times that there were people that wanted me to
write a grievance that they had overloaded jobs. I knew that the job wasn't, because the whistle or the bell would ring and we had odd hours -- 4:42 stopped the lines. Some of these people, they wanted -- had grievances, that they had too much work, would be standing there ready to punch their card when the bell would ring to stop. I would say, 'You want to tell me to write you a grievance and you're standing here waiting for the bell to stop? No, I'm not going to 02:02:00look like a fool. If I wrote that grievance tomorrow, at quitting time when you're waiting, the foreman's going to say, see that? I'm not going to do that!' I kept getting elected by not doing that and I felt I was doing the right thing.LAPORTE: The plant manager, at one point upon your departure had a ceremony
where he presented you with a cake in honor of your dedication to representing workers' interests and always being forthright and honest as you represented workers.GREEN: So, it worked. It worked. Not that I'm so high and mighty, but I do
02:03:00believe in telling the truth.LAPORTE: This is the continuation of my interview with Mr. Herb Green. This is
Phil LaPorte, I am the Director of the Labor Studies Program at Georgia State. Mr. Herb Green is here with me again today. It is Monday, January 23rd, 2006. We are going to pick up with Mr. Green's role in the General Motors Doraville Assembly Plant where he worked for 15 years, from 1949 to 1964. He was elected at first as an alternate committee man, then as a committee man, he served in a 02:04:00variety of different positions culminating in being elected as the full-time Chair of the Shop Committee for UAW Local 10, representing hourly workers at the Doraville Assembly plant. So Herb, during those 15 years, were you ever involved in Collective Bargaining negotiations?GREEN: I was involved most of the time during those years. We had some very good
years, production wise. I guess, I don't really guess, I know, that the line 02:05:00ran at full speed for over half of the years during this time. Full speed being 60 jobs per hour.LAPORTE: General Motors has national negotiations for the national agreement,
that affects all General Motors employees. Then there are local negotiations, local issues between the workers at a particular plant and the management at that plant. Were you involved in national negotiations or at the local level with Local 10 here at Doraville? 02:06:00GREEN: Most of my negotiations were locally. But on two occasions I was involved
-- at the time we secured a long term for 5 years, I believe that was in the late 50s or maybe early 60s, I'm not sure which. We got a 5 year contract and since I had been involved in local bargaining with the national contract, they 02:07:00asked me to fill-in some and worked on the national to tie it in with the local.LAPORTE: Do you recall any particular issues that came up in those negotiations
that are memorable? Be it job content or speed of the line, or the introduction of a new benefit? Do you recall anything that really stands out in your mind that you were directing involved in?GREEN: Yes. I don't know how this came about, when we had the two -- or
possibly three -- classifications that were attached to the Skill Trades 02:08:00Department, but at one time during the 1954 layoff -- we had the layoff that effected production where production line seniority and management was saying it didn't effect the skill trades nor these two or three classifications that had 02:09:00been attached. I said, 'I just can't recommend this until we get all the employees back. It certainly wouldn't be fair to bring back people with less seniority.' I'm just using this as an example, the ones that got less seniority classified as a janitor/sweeper than a classification of assembler, 02:10:00and use them and not go by seniority. Now when all employees, plant wide, along with these two or three classifications are back, I'll recommend and agree to do away with these classifications that were still attached after all these years.LAPORTE: So you were upholding the principle of seniority.
GREEN: That's right.
LAPORTE: Safety and health has always been an issue that has come up both at
National negotiations and at local negotiations. Can you recall an issue 02:11:00regarding safety and health that you were involved in local negotiations here at Doraville.GREEN: Yes. We've had several, I say several -- at least, I would say during
my tenure there -- four or five that was outstanding safety. Safety issues were -- we used those, or they were to be used -- as emergencies, as strikeable issues. At times, when we didn't have to give the other day notifications of 02:12:00how many days we had notified prior to striking, such as something that was too physically bad for people's health. We had maybe 2 or 4 that stand down in the line. I believe one of those, when we had some real heavy deck lids, we called them, it was really trunks. The feeder lines required one person to handle 02:13:00removing the deck from the feeder line, take them main line, and then install them on the main automobile. So I felt, and eventually wrote a grievance, and charged them with an overload, and charged them with a physical, seventy-eight, grievance. We settled that by them installing a harness with a suction that was handled by a person. 02:14:00LAPORTE: You spent 15 years in the Doraville plant. Beginning in 1949 and then
you left to be an International Representative. You were appointed as an International Representative. Can you recall Herb, the gains that were made from the time you began here at Doraville to the time you left to be an International Rep, and then when you finally retired, in terms of wages and the whole benefit package. The health care plan, the supplemental unemployment benefits, the pension program, can you give us a little comparison of what it was like when you first were hired and then sort of half way through your UAW career when you 02:15:00became an International Rep and then when you did retire in the 1980s.GREEN: When I first began in 1949, there was hardly any comparison from when I
left as an International Rep in the mid-60s, that being wages and the time that the committee had to handle grievances, plus the leeway we had on making 02:16:00suggestions, plus the knowledge we were able to really obtain by having some extra time. We just learned also how to work better with each other. In my opinion, made much better working conditions. When I first went to work at General Motors, you were -- you didn't have time to even speak to people on your way to take care of your personal needs. You just about had to run there 02:17:00and back. If you paused, they wanted to give you a reprimand for wasting time and loitering. This really caused a lot of hardship and a lot of hard feelings. You were just about forbidden to speak to people on your way to and from. It's just like a different world in the plant now. Don't misunderstand me, you still have to put in a good day's work, but you at least have some time to 02:18:00stretch and speak and feel like you have some time to make suggestions.LAPORTE: You saw both the advent of the higher wages, greater benefits, and
supplemental unemployment benefits. Walter Ruther talked about ensuring that workers' wages and benefits would be taken out of competition through pattern bargaining so that automobile manufacturers would compete on the basis of design and productivity and efficiency. Can you address that concept and how you saw it come into operation during your career?GREEN: Speaking of the large deck lids, that was just one item that came about.
02:19:00We had the wheels that— they had employees that were in a stooped position, putting these wheels on automobiles at 60 jobs per hour. Finally, we suggested and took a strike vote to get a pit dug, and installed, to get the employees in a standing position. And some big change in the paint. You could apply the paint, and it was dried where the dryer's right on the lines immediately, and 02:20:00didn't cause any real health hazards. The lead that was controlled in the body shop, which was used so frequently. They really checked that to make sure there wasn't any lead in the employees' blood stream.LAPORTE: Cost of living was another innovation brought about--
02:21:00GREEN: Sure was. This was brought about when the cost of living cost so much and
we got several increases per hour based on how much it cost. For example, a loaf of bread or a quart of milk, which was not based on what the union's figure were, but based on government figures, which we thought was very fair. I believe the last cost of living that was brought about was something like 45 cents per 02:22:00hour. That is a huge cost of living improvement. That don't mean that that's a real cost of living as such, because when you go to buy whatever you had to have it's going to cost the employee that much. Thank goodness we were able to work this out.LAPORTE: So the negotiation of the cost of living adjustment in the collective
bargaining agreement, protected hourly workers against their wages being eroded by inflation.GREEN: That's true. People back in 1949, they never heard to cost of living
02:23:00being a path where you could get raises. We, and when I say we, I'm speaking of the committee of Local 10; we would have sub-meetings with other committees. I can remember going to New Jersey. They had a BOP plant, Buick, Olds and Pontiac. They were having things there that the Doraville management sure didn't tell me, 'Now, they've got this in New Jersey and we want to give 02:24:00you this in Doraville. Me and the President of Local 10 going to the subcommittee meeting, and I do remember New Jersey. I believe it was one of the plants in California and one in Maryland was building the same types of automobiles we were, but they had things we didn't have because they had been 02:25:00organized longer. So by us attending these meetings, it gave me as the Chairman, the knowledge to know this. I came back to Doraville with this in mind and this is the way we were able to make some progress. When I would find out they had -- for example, had coveralls for extremely dirty jobs, then I would request that we use coveralls for the extremely dirty jobs at Doraville. I certainly would 02:26:00let them know, I felt the employees at Doraville were just as good as the employees in New Jersey or in Maryland or California. Eventually, we were able to get those coveralls and cloth gloves. When I went to work for General Motors, after a few months, I was promoted to metal finisher. I had to buy two pairs of cotton gloves a month -- no, it was 3 pair a month. Because we had to use those 02:27:00to feel the metal to find the rough spots. So we were able to get the company to furnish those gloves. That was like getting 30 cents a month increase in salary to get a pair of gloves a month.LAPORTE: Then in 1964, you left Local 10 and accepted an appointment as
International Representative and you were placed in charge of the Education and 02:28:00Political Action Committee for the UAW here in Smyrna, Georgia. So you began 22 years as an International Representative for the UAW. Can you describe a little bit about what your job duties were in the area of Education and Political Action, as an International Rep?GREEN: Back in the '60s, there were very few UAW automobile local unions in
02:29:00region 8. So region 8, of which Local 10 was assigned to, was consisting of several states. It was Georgia, Florida, North and South Carolina, Tennessee, Maryland --LAPORTE: A small part of Pennsylvania --
GREEN: Pennsylvania, about 3 or 4 counties. I believe that's all there were.
LAPORTE: Those states consisted of Region 8 of the UAW.
02:30:00GREEN: I was assigned, when I knew a local union was organizing, I was assigned
to meet with the new elected officials and hold classes before and after work because there wasn't any money. They had no treasury, most of them, or hardly any of them at this time, to pay any lost time. So I would meet with these people at whatever time they would set to meet and do what I could to teach them 02:31:00what I had learned in filing grievances, in trying to get more people in their unit to join the union. I would tell them, 'Don't try to browbeat these people. Just tell people that if you're going to get the benefits of what the union will provide, I'm sure you'll explain to the people they'll want to belong and pay their dues so they can be a part of it.' Now, it's unfortunate in the state of Georgia, along with most of the other states 02:32:00that's part of region 8, it's unfortunate that we have right to work laws. That we can't make the people join the union. But most of the people, I would say, if you explain to them and you show them where the union is good, not only for the ones that belong now, but for everyone, I believe they will want to join. The other thing, if you want to be truthful with the people, if you're a 02:33:00committeeman and you explain to them that there's certain things you can do for them and other things they may have that you can't do when you first organize. You have to gradually get things. I tried to tell them what we had when I first was elected as an Alternate Committeeman and as a Committeeman. I had very little time to serve without any restrictions of time. So you look to the time when you can have like they do in my plant now, have full-time for 02:34:00Committee men.LAPORTE: So you worked as, in essence, an educator, training new Committee men,
training new local union officers about Collective Bargaining, labor laws, effective grievance handling. As you've described, internal organizing that these right to work states in Region 8 of the UAW, most of the did pass state right to work laws where individual employees did not have to join the union or pay dues to the union as a condition of employment, however they received the negotiated wage level, benefits and representation rights that the union 02:35:00provided to all represented employees.GREEN: Right. It works well with most people; you use the silent treatment if
you run across these people that are so hard against unions. You just get with the group, and you don't talk to them at lunch time you just kind of segregate. Stay away from them. I tell you, when you do people that way long enough, they'll come around. People don't like to be shunned. People like to be wanted. They like to have friends. When I was in Local 10 we had a person, 02:36:00and we'd just try to get them to join, and we'd just stay away from him. It wouldn't be long until he decided he'd rather come over.LAPORTE: Local 10 has had a record of being organized at 99.5 -- 99.9% of all
eligible workers belong to the union. In fact, out of 3,200 members, last count, there were approximately 25 employees that did not belong to the union.GREEN: That's true.
LAPORTE: Was that your experience in the time that you served as Shop
Committeeman, etc.?GREEN: That's right.
LAPORTE: Yes, sir.
02:37:00GREEN: Like I said, it's hard to work in there all day and people shun you.
Say you're walking down the aisle and you're meeting someone and all of a sudden you take a short cut, that will bring them around in most cases.LAPORTE: Now, Mr. Green, your job as an International Representative included
work as Director of the Political Action Committee. So the UAW Cap Council required you to be involved in politics and legislative affairs. Correct?GREEN: Sure did.
02:38:00LAPORTE: So if you could just recollect a few of those campaigns and some of the
issues that you were involved in. Walter Ruther used to say that what you got at the negotiating table could be taken away at the ballot box. Help us out here in terms of a Georgia race. I believe you were involved in the support of a candidate that was running for Labor Commissioner in Georgia. There was an incumbent by the name of Ben T. Hewitt and he was being challenged by Sam Caldwell, is that correct?GREEN: That's correct. Ben T. Hewitt was Commissioner of Labor. We're very
02:39:00unique here in Georgia. Most states appoint their Commissioner -- but correct me if I'm wrong, I'm not sure -- you probably know better than I do, but I believe it's only two -- maybe three other states that elects. We decided, since we elect a Commissioner, why can't we elect one that at least will be fair. Ben T. Hewitt had never met with us. To my knowledge, as a group of labor 02:40:00people, to really know what was on our minds. So Sam Caldwell, he was the Personnel Director for the State Highway Department. So I got to know him through a Senator. I asked him if he would be willing to run for Commissioner. He was well liked and he said he would.LAPORTE: What year was this, Mr. Green?
GREEN: This was back in 1963, I believe that's right. So we decided that the
one thing that we really wanted to get passed -- we could get our insurance, we 02:41:00called it insurance, was unemployment insurance. If we could get -- what I'm trying to say is, a check stub from the state saying we got unemployment for that down time. Back then, we were having a down at least one week, if not sometimes several months, for model change. I can remember when my Daddy worked 02:42:00for the Ford Company, when they built Model Ts on Ponce de Leon and they'd be down maybe three or four months for model change. So when we would be down here at Local 10, it might be two weeks, it might be month, 6 weeks. We couldn't get no SUB, that supplement to unemployment because we didn't get no unemployment. So we talked to Sam about running on that basis. At least get the stuff showing how we were treated. So, we were able to elect him. I still 02:43:00don't know how just we did it, but we did it. I really worked all I could and he really appreciated us doing that. So we had a governor too, that was elected, Jimmy Carter and he was going to help. I talked with him --LAPORTE: Before we get to Mr. Carter, if we could back up just a minute. So it
was a coalition of different labor unions that supported Sam Caldwell to be elected as Labor Commissioner for the State of Georgia. 02:44:00GREEN: Right. All of AFL-CIO, the independents, like the Teamsters, UAW -- and
we would meet. I know some of the meetings would be in people's homes. [Inaudible], he was representing the Steelworkers and Carpenters were involved. Well, just all of labor. I don't believe any labor supported Ben T. Hewitt. I can't remember. But the end result, we elected Sam Caldwell. Sam was really good to labor and doing what he could. Course, like you said, prior to electing 02:45:00the governor. You can refresh my memory and you can correct me if I'm wrong here, I believe Carl Sanders was running during this time also. I, for one -- course, we in Local 10, never did come out and support anyone in the primary. We had our choice, but we didn't make it known in the primary who would we would support. So Carl Sanders was a perfectly good governor as far as labor was 02:46:00concerned. I believe -- didn't he beat -- who ran against? Was it Maddox? Was Maddox in a race with Sanders?LAPORTE: Or was it Earnest Van Diver?
GREEN: I think it was Earnest, wasn't it?
LAPORTE: I believe. We can check on it Herb. Sam Caldwell was elected as Labor
Commissioner and he as often said on the support he received from labor was key to be elected statewide. He commented on the support from the Communications Workers of America, CWA, because they had a statewide presence and talked of the 02:47:00importance of the Building Trades and IBEW 84, again a statewide presence. Just in numbers of the UAW was very helpful in his statewide race. How long did Sam Caldwell hold the position as Labor Commissioner?GREEN: He held it until he really fouled up. He could of, I think, could have
been governor if he had behaved himself. That's my opinion.LAPORTE: He was elected statewide I believe 5 times, holding the office of Labor
Commissioner for 20 years. Once he got elected to that position, labor 02:48:00continuously supported him and he was elected statewide for an additional 4 terms. Now did Commissioner Caldwell take an interest in nominating one Herb Green to serve on the Unemployment Compensation Review Board?GREEN: Yeah, he sure did. He asked me if I would be interested in serving and
the way they had this broken down, there's three members on the board. One represents labor, one represents the public, and one represents management. This is not spelled out in any form or any way, but its known this is the way it's 02:49:00to be. So, that's the way I've been since been -- I've always represented labor. We've got a black lady that represents management and a white lady, a lawyer, that represents the public. It's worked pretty well.LAPORTE: You were recommended by Sam Caldwell to a governor of Georgia to be on
02:50:00the Unemployment Compensation Review Board. Could you tell us who the governor was and give us a little background on it?GREEN: I had made real close friends to Sam Caldwell and he asked me if I'd
like to serve on the Board of Review of the Employment Security Act. I said, 'Well, if you feel I could do that, yes, I would.' To tell you the truth, the regional director always told us if you can get on some of these boards where you can be an important voice, do that and serve. Sam Caldwell recommended 02:51:00me to the governor to be on this board. I was out of town at that particular time; he called my wife and told her to have me to get in touch with him when I got back. So when I got back in town, I got in touch with Commissioner Caldwell, we went to the governor's office and we walked in for me to get sworn in and this was Governor Maddox. Governor Maddox looked at me and he said, 'Herb, I understood you were in that march from Selma to Montgomery.' I said, 02:52:00'Governor, I've never been to Selma in my life.' So, he swore me in as the Labor Representative on the Board of Review and I've been on it ever since. I hope I've represented labor to the very best of my abilities. I've tried. But you know, the Board of Review is just one way we can do things to help labor. Governor Carter, who had places that he pointed people, and he appointed 02:53:00me to different places that was just on short term that I was able to do. I appreciate that. Speaking of Governor Maddox, he was in St. Joseph's Hospital the last few weeks he lived. So I was over visiting, R.L. Stevens, we called him Big Steve, he was in St. Joseph's, and Steve said, 'You know who's in the hospital right down the hall?' I said, 'No.' He says, 'Governor Maddox!' I said, 'Well, I'm going to go down and speak to him.' So I 02:54:00went down and spoke. He said, 'Herb Green!' I said, 'Yes? Governor, do you remember swearing me in as a member of the Board of Review?' He said, 'I sure do.' I said, 'Well, I'm still on that board.' I visited him then and he didn't live too long after that.LAPORTE: Well, as I understand it, you were never in Selma, Alabama, however,
rumor has it you went over to Alabama and joined the march lead by the Reverend Martin Luther King, Jr. that ended in Montgomery in support of voting rights. 02:55:00That, of course, had started in Selma, where Bull Connor sent the state police and dogs to stop the marchers from marching over the Edmund Pettis Bridge. But you didn't join the march until they were in?GREEN: Montgomery. I would say approximately -- maybe -- a mile and a half or
two miles outside Montgomery at a Catholic School. What we did, several UAW personnel flew into the Atlanta airport and we chartered a bus and rode the bus 02:56:00over to this Catholic School and then marched in with the group that came from Selma. I remember it very well. We marched three abreast. I was in the middle, we had -- can't remember the name of the lady that was on my left that marched, but she was a member of one of the Women's Team. Art [inaudible], who was the Director of the Education Department, was on my right. As we marched 02:57:00through this poor section -- white section -- these white people were pointing at us as we marched calling us ugly names at which time Art broke rank and said, 'I don't belong to this non-violent committee and I will tear your ass up!' He scattered them out pretty much. So we marched on and listened to the 02:58:00speech that Martin Luther King made from the Alabama state capitol.LAPORTE: Your statement to Governor Lester Maddox that you had never been in
Selma in your life, was a true and accurate statement when you said it to him.GREEN: It sure was. But I did join the group and Region 8 was there and had been
told to be there by Walter Ruther who was in the march at Washington when Martin 02:59:00Luther King made his "I have a dream" speech in Washington a few years earlier.LAPORTE: Walter Ruther was providing financial support to Dr. King for the March
on Washington and you can see his presence in the photographs in the background when Dr. King is at the podium delivering his address. The UAW provided assistance with transportation and Marshals for that event. You had some interactions with politics in Georgia, and you also were instrumental, as I understand it, in supporting a young state Senator from Plains, Georgia, who sought to be governor of the state. Tell us about that.GREEN: Yes. I've always been a people's person. I like to be with people and
03:00:00I grew up, as stated before, during the Depression and was limited on finances during that time and didn't really get to know politicians. Back in those days, I guess the first politician I can remember, really remember, was Franklin 03:01:00Roosevelt. I can remember so well, people talking about Franklin Roosevelt being a Godsend to poor people. I really believe that. So many times, I wondered what we were going to do for clothes during the Depression. We found out there had been programs set up through the CCC camps and different things that would help people. From that time on through the times of today when we have things like 03:02:00Food Stamps, Medicare, Medicaid, things for older people, it's just a Godsend. Anytime you can see help being given it's help that the Democrats have been able to start. Maybe they haven't done everything that needed to be done, but it's been a start. When you look back and see just some of these walls, these 03:03:00rock walls around Marietta -- I used to go through there going out to Alabama where my wife grew up, we'd have to take her back home about once a month and I'd go through an area where the WPA worked. Some of the work they did was still there and it was noticeable. You could see those walls that they built out there. That has been built on. During the time that Jimmy Carter was governor, I 03:04:00got to know him real well. During this time, I was able to introduce him to Leonard Woodcock. Walter Ruther and his wife was killed in a plane crash flying into Black Lake, Michigan where we have a beautiful place where we have some time that's set aside each year, where we can take young Committee men and Officers of Unions in there for some training. But Walter Ruther and his wife 03:05:00and some people on the plane were killed flying in there. Well, Leonard Woodcock who was the Director of the General Motors Department was able to take over for the leadership and the President from Walter Ruther and did a really good job, I think, at the time. In fact, he was appointed as the Ambassador to China during the Jimmy Carter Presidency. I heard that Jimmy Carter was going to be in 03:06:00Florida and I knew that Leonard Woodcock, our President, that had been elected President, was going to be there visiting our retirees and I was able to get them together in St. Petersburg to meet. I was very proud that the meeting came about and worked as well as it did. I believe that if Leonard Woodcock had the 03:07:00power to endorse at the time he got to know Carter, that he would have probably endorsed him then. But later, he did recommend that the UAW endorse Jimmy Carter for President.LAPORTE: Jimmy Carter came to your door, barefoot, while you were down there in
Florida, to announce to you that they had won the Florida primary. So how did you first become associated with Jimmy Carter? How'd you first come to know Jimmy Carter? 03:08:00GREEN: As I stated, he was a state Senator, and I was the UAW -- CAP Education.
We was trying to get the unemployment and some improvement on the Workmen's Comp. He was always willing to listen to me. I don't know why. Something about he and I, just kind of drew us together. The last week he was Governor; he 03:09:00called me at my office and said, 'Herb, if you've got time, can you come down to my office.' I said, 'Governor, when you call, I got time to do whatever you want done.' So I went right on. I didn't know what in the world he wanted. I walked in his office and he said -- he looked at me and said, 'What kind of Governor do you think I've been?' I said, 'Well, Governor, you've been a good, fine Governor. You didn't do everything I wanted you to do, if you had, I guess some of it could have been wrong. But you at least 03:10:00listened.' We talked and he said, 'I'm going to seek the nomination for President of the Democratic Party. What do you think about that?' I about swallowed my tongue. (Laughs) I thought he'd gone crazy, I really did. I said -- I told him, 'I didn't support you when you first ran, I supported Carl Sanders.' But I said, 'I'll do what I can,' but I said, 'I don't hold no position on recommending who we support for President. But I'll do what I can.' And I did. I recommended to Leonard Woodcock- I said, 'Where 03:11:00can you show me that you don't have a friend' Leonard really fell in love with Jimmy. He really liked him.LAPORTE: Doug Fraser has recalled that when Jimmy Carter was running for the
nomination -- for the Democratic nomination for President, he said it was Herb Green down in Georgia who told us, 'It'd be OK! I know him. You can depend on him.' Herb Green was right there supporting his home state Governor. So Doug Fraser recalls that very fondly. 03:12:00GREEN: To tell you the truth, I thought Ted Kennedy; he didn't want Carter at
all. He was trying to get other people to support him. In fact, I was able to go against a lot of the UAW on account of the Kennedys had got a bus load to go to the White House and Carter met us all, shook hands with us and Carter was really 03:13:00-- Mike, who was the Director, was telling Woodcock, 'Look, we're going to support Carter now.' He was getting pretty short with all of us.LAPORTE: Of course, in 1976, Jimmy Carter was the nominee for the Democratic and
defeated Gerald Ford, who was the incumbent, unelected President. Then in 1980, Jimmy Carter's fortunes suffered and Ted Kennedy challenged him in the 03:14:00Democratic primaries for the nomination of the party. In 1980, the young incumbent, Democratic President, prevailed over Ted Kennedy but it turned out to be a fairly close race and Carter, of course, went on to lose in the general election to Ronald Reagan in 1980.GREEN: You know what really hurt Carter more than anything? It was his -- all of
his people that he took with him. Hamilton Jordan was the main reason. Tip 03:15:00O'Neal hated Hamilton. Hamilton, he was a good friend of mine. Hamilton hated Tip, and Tip hated him. Hamilton wouldn't return a call to Tip O'Neal. [inaudible] People that were loyal to Carter, Carter wouldn't do nothing to them. He was going to keep them. He kept Hamilton right through thick and thin.LAPORTE: Hamilton Jordan fired Tip O'Neal's close friend who was Director of
the General Services Administration. He did so without advising the Speaker of 03:16:00the House nor would be explain to the Speaker of the House what he had done and why he had done it. So when you have the Speaker of the House, a Representative and member of your own party, it is not wise to take such an action; so lots of evidence of that rift between the Carter White House and Tip O'Neal and the Kennedys. So you were involved, very much so, when President Carter was elected, and did the President invite you to the White House, did you have the occasion to fly on Air Force One? Some of those experiences? 03:17:00GREEN: Yeah, I tell you -- I never dreamed I could do some of the things I did,
Phil. First of all, he had been elected and I felt I wanted to talk to him before he went to Washington. I'm backing up some here. So I called -- told him I'd like to go to Plains. You get elected in November and you don't take office until January. So this was sometime in the latter part of November, 03:18:00he'd been elected the first part. He arranges for my wife and I to go to Plains. Have you ever been to his home in Plains? You know, he's got this little ranch type home. So we had to go to Americus to start with and then we went on to Plains. Went up the drive and went to the door -- we were dressed all in our best and he came to the door with his turtleneck sweater on, blue jeans and said, 'Come on in, Herb.' We went in and he said, 'All right, Herb, 03:19:00it's your time.' My wife and I -- he said, 'It's your time.' I said, 'Well, Mr. President to be, I want to thank you for this time. He said, 'You're thanking me? I should be thanking you. You gave me a lot more time than I'm giving you.' This is the words he used. He didn't have to say that, he was elected. I said, 'I don't want to take much of your time. I figured when you got to Washington, you're going to be a busy man, I won't get to see you.' He said, 'Herb, as much as you've done for me, you'll 03:20:00get to see me.' So, we talked on and he told me the main thing he was going to try to do was balance the budget. I said, 'Well, keep in mind how to balance a budget. Just don't do it on the common people.' We talked about that. So we didn't stay too long. We left -- the next thing, he was President. I went to the inauguration. Took my grandson. I only have one grandson, so he was 17 years old. So I got him excused from school to go with me. We rode the train and we 03:21:00rented a car, so he really enjoyed that and of course, I did too. Sam -- the Senator --LAPORTE: Sam Nunn.
GREEN: Sam Nunn -- I couldn't think of it -- he showed us a good time too.
Sam, he never did much, or anything, for labor. But Sam always liked me and he liked Sam Caldwell. Commissioner of Labor --LAPORTE: Sam Caldwell.
03:22:00GREEN: He liked Sam. He was friends with him. He invited me to all of his
functions. The next thing I knew, he was calling me from Camp David. Him and his wife and they were thinking about things to be thankful for. Called me on Thanksgiving. We're just here thinking about things to be thankful for, and you came to our mind. That kind of makes your hair grow. I said, 'I sure appreciate you calling. I'm thankful that you thought about me. I appreciate 03:23:00it so much.' So that's the kind of fellowship I have with him -- or had with him. From that time, I joined the Peanut Brigade all the way through. It's just been real enjoyable. I've done what I could. I haven't tried to impose things on him or ask him to do things that I felt was selfish. I believed he could help me if I really need help personally, he would do it. I believe he 03:24:00would do that much.LAPORTE: So you went from hitchhiking, riding the streetcar and hitchhiking home
from Fort McPherson, to getting a ride from the President of the United States on Air Force One. Tell us about the occasion where you had the opportunity to ride on Air Force One.GREEN: I was in Washington. We were having a CAP conference. We'd always go
down to Hammond and this was when Martin Luther King Day took and he was going 03:25:00to be the key note speaker as President. Key note on Monday. So, I wanted to hear the speech and I was coming off at that time. So Philip Wives, who was his Appointment Secretary, was in Washington -- I called him and said, 'Philip? How about getting me on Air Force One to go to Atlanta to hear President Carter speak for Martin Luther King Day?' He said, 'Man, you don't mind asking for big things do you?' I said, 'Did you mind asking me to go to Connecticut when you had some UAW people to -- " He said, 'Oh, I guess I didn't.' I 03:26:00said, 'Phil, you can either get me on, or you can't. It's that simple.' He said, 'Where are you going to be?' I gave him the phone number. He said, 'If can get you on there, I'll call you.' About an hour later, he called. He said, 'I got you on. You be there at a certain place and they'll tell you what to do.' I didn't know what to expect. So I got there, I was going to be 03:27:00there with the staff and the people that write. We took off and once we got airborne, he came in and Elliott Levitas was on the flight. And Chip Carter.LAPORTE: Elliott Levitas, of course, the Congressmen from the 4th district of Georgia.
GREEN: Some of the reporters, writers -- so in a little bit, Jimmy came in. He
said, 'When we get airborne, I'll come in and talk to you.' So he came in and talked to us. He says, 'Now, when we land, a group's supposed to meet us 03:28:00at Dobbins and then the motorcade will take us. We'll have lunch.' We were having lunch there at Piedmont at the Dugout. It was owned by one of the ballplayers. We ate there, then went on to Ebenezer Church and he spoke. Talmadge was already down here.LAPORTE: Senator Herman Talmadge of Georgia.
GREEN: So he flew back with us and this was when he was doing a lot of drinking.
They had -- the bar was open on the plane and he just drank and drank. Before we 03:29:00landed, he had gotten pretty drunk. Herman asked me, 'Herb, how about you drive me home?' I said, 'I ain't got much time but I'll drive you.' So I did. He told me where to go. I think I showed you the picture, he was telling me how he was going to balance the budget and everything, Carter was. And Chip took those pictures. But Carter told me, he said, 'I be in touch with you.' Amy was on there, I talked with her. And Rosalynn. I got a picture with her. So 03:30:00it was wonderful. Like you said, I had to eat corn bread for breakfast, didn't have no money, but then I was riding Air Force One talking to the President about balancing the budget. Where can you do that?LAPORTE: The United Auto Workers always focused on developing leaders and
providing opportunities for their members to become leaders, to be elected to office, to represent their fellow workers and to participate in education programs, to participate in public dialogue, and to develop leaders. Where else, 03:31:00but in the labor movement and the UAW, would have provided an opportunity for a wage earner, born assembler, to go from being someone earning a wage to being an advisor to the leader of the free world.GREEN: I've always been a tender hearted person. I cry at nothing. My mother,
she'd watch and program and cry. My daddy, even though he drank, he talked to 03:32:00me about his life, and he'd cry. Cry like a baby. So I got a double dose. I meant to -- this reporter called me, I don't remember the year. My life has been -- my family, my God, the Democratic party. My church has been a part. 03:33:00That's been me. I don't know why Carter thought enough of me to call me and ask me what kind of Governor he'd been. I don't know. But I thank God he did. I sure am no super-duper. In fact, I finished high school through a correspondence course. I just -- right now, I'm 84 years old. As long as I'm 03:34:00sitting, I don't have any real pain. I have some physical pain, sitting down, but I can't stand. But God's blessed me with fairly good health. I've had bypass surgery, I had a real bad aneurism; was in the operating room for 6 hours for that -- got a wonderful family, just so much to live for. I don't know -- 03:35:00I never dreamed that you would do this. But I'm happy that you have. I believe it might help somebody that might read about this. I don't know that it will --LAPORTE: When we look at that question as to your role as an educator and your
role as a UAW leader and then through teaching and political involvement, to spread the message of opportunity for workers, decent treatment for workers, a better American society and the effort it takes to understand issues, understand 03:36:00policies and then to get involved to make sure that we have the best society possible. Herb, I want to ask you about some of those efforts. You were instrumental in the Region 8 Summer School for over 20 years. You began that summer school at Black Mountain, North Carolina?GREEN: Yes.
LAPORTE: As I understand it, there was no air conditioning. There were simple
classrooms, everybody had to help with every effort that was made, but you brought people in and gave them information so that could take back and create a better life for the people that they represented and worked with. Can you give us a little background on old Black Mountain? 03:37:00GREEN: Black Mountain, like you said; it was just a roof over our heads and a
pretty hard bunk to sleep on. But we never failed to open up our class with a prayer. We always knew where we came from. We really hoped and prayed where we were going. As Walter Ruther used to say, if you don't know where you came from, you don't know where you're going. I used to try to get some of the 03:38:00better people, I thought, to come to our Summer School. Claude Pepper, for example. I was going through -- I don't know what I'm going to do with all these things I've accumulated over the years. My wife and I talk about things that we got now. What are we going to do with this? We can't have too many more years. What are we going to do with it?LAPORTE: You moved the Region 8 from Black Mountain, North Carolina to the
campus of the University of Tennessee in Knoxville.GREEN: Right.
LAPORTE: At the University of Tennessee, you arranged for Senator Claude Pepper,
of course he was in the House of Representatives from Florida, to be one of the 03:39:00speakers. Do you recall that particular session with the retirees and the whole Summer School group when Claude Pepper spoke? I happened to be in the audience at that event and for the retirees, it was as if a superstar had come in. They all wanted to have their picture taken with Claude Pepper; they hung on his every word. He told those people to stay involved, to stay engaged, that we need to hear your voice, we need your energy, we need your wisdom as we debate public policy issues. Herb Green, during that same session, you arranged for the Governor of Tennessee, Ned McWarner, to come and address the Summer School. How 03:40:00is it that at this UAW Region 8 Education Director was able to get United States Congressmen, the Governor of the state; to get such high ranking public officials to come and speak to the students at the UAW Summer Schools?GREEN: Well, I think it's because I stayed in touch. Let them know that we
depend on them to come and share with us their knowledge. That they not only were during us a favor, that we could help them. It worked both ways. Claude 03:41:00Pepper invited me -- I was in Washington and he was there for some cause, I don't remember what -- but the night that my mother died, I was in Washington and he invited me to go with him to make a speech. I can't remember to who or what, but when I got back, they were trying to get in touch with me to let me know -- when we moved back to my Grandparents, we moved in with not only my Grandparents, we moved in with my old maid aunt. My old maid aunt and my mother 03:42:00both died the same night. So my wife called me. She told me -- or left word -- that my old maid aunt had died, but she didn't tell me that my mother had died too for me to come home. So that's where I was. I had gone to be with Congressman Pepper. I had a double funeral at my church for this old maid aunt and my mother. My old maid aunt was like a second mother. She was so afraid of 03:43:00bad clouds that had wind. She'd have us children put our clothes on, she'd say, 'If we get blown away, we're going to be dressed.'LAPORTE: Another candidate for public office was in the 4th Congressional
District in Georgia. He credits you with giving him invaluable advice and giving him the courage after losing the first time he ran for office, to continue on. I'm talking about the Democratic Congressmen from the Fourth District, Ben Jones. He said that Herb Green was his best advisor and taught him more about running for elected office and relating to the electorate than anyone else. Do 03:44:00you recall that campaign with Ben Jones?GREEN: I sure do. He came -- he was on this show --
LAPORTE: The Dukes of Hazard.
GREEN: He was the funny man.
LAPORTE: He was the mechanic, Cooter.
GREEN: Right. He came to the University of Tennessee and we called him Cooter in
there. I honestly believe that helped him get elected to that office. I believe 03:45:00if he had kept going the way he started, he could have made a good Congressman and kept -- somehow, he got off on the wrong track recently. I don't know why.LAPORTE: They changed the Congressional District boundaries. He left his 4th
Congressional District, in DeKalb County, and then ran in another district that was primarily Athens and Clarke County and many of the people in that district didn't know who Congressman Ben Jones was. He eventually was defeated and of course, left the Congress.GREEN: He went back to Carolina, didn't he? Isn't he back there now?
LAPORTE: Actually, he moved to Virginia. You have been a member of the Gwinnett
03:46:00County Democratic Party for how long, Mr. Green?GREEN: Well, it's over -- I'd say 53 years.
LAPORTE: So 53 years, a member of your church, a member of Democratic Party in
Gwinnett County, and a member of Local 10 of the UAW. Then in 1986, you retired from the UAW as an International Representative. Then you began another phase of your association with the UAW as a member of the retirees' chapter. So you've never left the UAW, is that correct?GREEN: Yeah. I haven't left it.
LAPORTE: Can you tell us a little bit about these past almost 20 years now that
03:47:00you have been a member of the UAW retirees' chapter?GREEN: Well, the chapter meets once a month with the exception of December. The
reason for that, we have a care and share program in December that we raise money to help people that wouldn't be helped otherwise. So we have a meeting where we have all of the members that have retired are invited and they're 03:48:00sworn in to be retiree members. If they want to make a short little talk, they're given that privilege to do, plus the local will serve a sandwich and soft drinks and some potato chips. I think they started about 6 months ago; they serve a regular meal about four times a year. Christmas, New Years -- it's pretty good chicken and dressing and things of this nature. Then the retirees 03:49:00have different functions that they want to send people to see what other retired workers are doing. The UAW has a retirees department at Local 10 that it's involved in. I'd like to be involved, but I just can't walk well enough to go from -- if you go, and you housed maybe in one hotel and the meeting or the group that you're affiliated with are meeting somewhere else and you have to 03:50:00do quite a bit of walking -- I'm just not physically able now to walk that. I believe I'm able to do most anything sitting. I just can't walk too well.LAPORTE: So at 84 years old, you continue to participate in retirees' club,
continue to participate in the Gwinnett County Democratic Party, continue to work the phones on behalf of candidates that you support and you are here today, at UAW Local 10, trying to help the local, and help the UAW with keeping this 03:51:00Doraville assembly plant open. As I understand it, Herb Green, is going to make some calls to public officials who you have a relationship with to seek their support and assistance to getting General Motors to keep this plant open for as long as you possibly can.GREEN: Yes. I have a call in now for Philip Wise, who I mentioned earlier. He
was the Appointment Secretary -- he works for the Carter Center now. I called him, he's returned my call twice and I've been away from the phone. I called 03:52:00Andrew Young and said I wanted to talk to him about keeping the plant open. I have a call to President Carter. I believe if President Carter would get involved -- he's involved with a lot of the foreign places, health-wise, and getting health help for people. I believe he might have some influence if he would get involved; I'm going to ask him to.LAPORTE: Well, Herb, thank you very much for speaking with us.