KELLY LIMES-TAYLOR HENDERSON: First thing that, that I always ask is just for,
um you to tell me kind of who I'm talking to and where you are right now.SADIE ROMANZA LIMES GREEN: Okay. Um, my name's Sadie Romanza Limes Green --
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- and I live at four, three, zero King's Highway off of six-oh-three,
Dover, Delaware, one, nine, nine, oh, one.HENDERSON: Mm hmm. Thank you! And then like we just said, um uh, a little while,
Aunt Sadie, if we could just start out and you can tell me could you tell me a little bit about some of your first memories? We'll say -- We'll be very general. What are some of your first memories?GREEN: In Georgetown?
HENDERSON: In Georgetown, Mm hmm.
00:01:00GREEN: Um the first memory I had, I guess, was playing, uh, over to momma's
house, my grandmother's house. We spent a lot of time at my grandmother's house.HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: I don't remember spending time at our house.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
GREEN: Um we would get up in the morning and mother would get us dressed. I
imagine we had breakfast at mom's house, but I'm not sure.HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: Um, we would go to my grandmother's house --
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- and we would stay there all day long --
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- and, uh then, from there, when it got dark, we would go back home and
mother would put us to bed.HENDERSON: We -- oh, that's really all day long.
GREEN: Yes, all day. We had lunch at momma's, um, dinner --
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: Um, we were just there --
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- so we were -- and you could say, um the household raised us. It was,
00:02:00um, myself and Rocky um, Verna was a little girl, and Verna had a play mother --HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- and she was usually over there all day, playing.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: Um, Ms. Becky (phonetic) would come and get her (unintelligible) Ferdie,
myself and Rocky would be over at my grandmother's house --HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- with Norma and Carmelita.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: All the other cousins --
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- would be there.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: Momma's house was like a gathering place --
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- um, and so that's where we were all day long.
HENDERSON: Uh huh.
GREEN: I remember -- Now when I was old enough to go to school, I couldn't
remember -- they called it pre, pre -- pre-kindergarten, yeah --HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- primer --
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- that's what they called it, primer and, um, you went to primer --
00:03:00HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- but it was like a play thing, you know what I mean?
HENDERSON: Uh huh.
GREEN: I don't remember learning anything. Um you always was in a classroom with
the relatives, which means if you had a cousin or someone teaching, those were the rooms that they put the children in.HENDERSON: Oh -- Like --
GREEN: Um --
HENDERSON: Like the relative, uh, a rela -- if a relative was a teacher, then
they made sure that the student --GREEN: Yes, and they, that's where they would put you --
HENDERSON: Ohhh --
GREEN: -- in, um, in the room, so we -- And Camia -- Carmelita and I was in the
same grade --HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- and I can remember from the first grade um second grade, uh, was a, a
cousin of theirs --HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- um, going to school. It was like we didn't, we didn't learn much. Uh,
00:04:00the teacher, this lady -- and even in the third grade, yes -- this lady, um, had a abusive husband, I guess --HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- and he would, um, you know, fight her, I guess -- Anyway she would not
be able to come to school to teach.HENDERSON: Ohhh --
GREEN: And, at that time, they would have, like a high school student would come
in and take the, the class and would be --HENDERSON: Oh. (laugh)
GREEN: So, we did not learn very much. Um, we just went to school and we -- I
guess, I remember writing and stuff, but I don't remember learning that much, and I don't have a memory like Aunt Verna.HENDERSON: Uh huh.
GREEN: They can remember down to the point --
HENDERSON: Right, right, right.
GREEN: -- and I can't. I guess I was the kind of a child that I didn't, I had a
lot on my mind.HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: When I went home, I had a lot to do --
HENDERSON: Right.
00:05:00GREEN: -- um, so, uh, but we didn't learn like we should have --
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- and when we got to, I could remember getting to, um fourth grade. We
had to go to another school, uh, um, so when we went there, this teacher said we, we weren't up with the class --HENDERSON: I see. What --
GREEN: -- and so --
HENDERSON: And so this, this new school, was this new school still down in Georgetown?
GREEN: Yeah --
HENDERSON: Uh huh.
GREEN: -- all this is in Georgetown.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: And, um, well, they called it "across the road," which was in high
school, I guess, but it was the fourth grade we'd gone to and she said we were not up to par with the other fourth graders.HENDERSON: Oh, I see.
GREEN: And, so, she, um, told my mother -- and I remember that, that she wanted
to keep us back --HENDERSON: Ummm --
GREEN: Carmelita and I both, and we did stay back, but shortly after that, we
moved to New York.HENDERSON: Do you know how -- do you know now -- and it may be because someone
00:06:00told you later -- do you know why you didn't stay back?GREEN: We did. We --
HENDERSON: Oh --
GREEN: -- stayed back in the fourth grade.
HENDERSON: Oh, you said you did stay back.
GREEN: Yes, we did.
HENDERSON: Oh, I thought you said you didn't --
GREEN: We, we were (unintelligible) --
HENDERSON: Oh, uh huh.
GREEN: -- um, repeated the fourth grade --
HENDERSON: Uh huh. Uh huh.
GREEN: Yes, we did. And after that, I moved to New York.
HENDERSON: Right.
GREEN: But, nevertheless, uh, being in Georgetown, um, playing, and it was
nothing, like I said, I grew up in my grandma's house.HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: We would go home -- We moved a lot.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: That's what I remember -- moving quite a bit, um, when I was a child.
HENDERSON: Uh huh.
GREEN: My father worked, and sometimes he worked away in Conway. It was another
town --HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- and he would work there all week and then he would come home on the weekends.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: And most of the time, we were at, you know, my grandmother's house --
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
00:07:00GREEN: -- but, um -- My mother had stopped teaching.
HENDERSON: Uh huh.
GREEN: She used to teach in the country, so after
Ferdie was born, she stopped teaching.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: When I was young, when I was a baby, she taught --
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- and Rocky, and I think we stayed with, my grandmother kept us, while
she, um, you know, went back and forth.HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: But after Ferdie was born -- her third child -- that's when she stopped
teaching --HENDERSON: Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- and, um, was home most of the time. But, um, just like I said, um I
don't remember much happening when I was a child. Oh, we were at my grandma's most of the time.HENDERSON: Mm hmm. Well, I think that it's interesting that you -- Well, how how
old were you when y'all left to go up to New York?GREEN: Um, I was ten.
HENDERSON: You were ten?
GREEN: I was ten. I went to New York for the summer, to spend summer, and my
aunt wanted to keep me -- the one, I mean my father's sister --HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
00:08:00GREEN: The one that -- Sadie, that I'm named, she named me --
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: And I thought I was going to -- see, she didn't have any children.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: And then my father said, "No," uh, "I don't care how many children I
have, they will all grow together."HENDERSON: Ah, I see.
GREEN: -- so, I stayed.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: And so I came back, and I was about eight. I had gone to visit in New York.
HENDERSON: Uh huh.
GREEN: And that's why Carmi and Norma Jean had moved already to New York --
HENDERSON: Oh. Okay.
GREEN: -- and -- Yeah, we were still down there, so, um so (unintelligible) I
actually(?) moved here (unintelligible) -- I can't remember what year.HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: We moved in the forties -- We came back to visit in forty-seven,
forty-five. Ronald was born --HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- and Ronald was born in 1942 --
HENDERSON: Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
GREEN: And he was a baby.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: He was, um, a arm baby, big baby, um, when we went to move to New York.
00:09:00Um, he was born in April, so we must of moved the next year.HENDERSON: Right.
GREEN: He was like nine months, ten months, something like that when we went to
New York to move permanently.HENDERSON: Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
GREEN: But up until that time, in Georgetown, we played and we worked -- and worked.
HENDERSON: Uh huh.
GREEN: I mean I was a child, but we worked. I had chores to do (unintelligible) --
HENDERSON: (laugh) What kind of -- What kind of chores did you do?
GREEN: (laughter)
HENDERSON: because ten --
GREEN: Well --
HENDERSON: -- is young. I mean, you know, you can do --
GREEN: Yes, I was very young.
HENDERSON: -- chores at ten, but --
GREEN: I was, I was, uh, young and I was, um um, scrubbing floors. We had, um,
we had wood floors on Fourteenth --HENDERSON: Uh huh.
GREEN: -- and on the porches and and linoleum in the dining room. I scrubbed,
used to be on my knees scrubbing those floors.HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: Um, we had to chop wood. Rocky chopped wood, more wood than I did. Um
he'd bring it into the house, gather wood --HENDERSON: Uh huh.
GREEN: -- go out fishing. We were young, but we had to do those things. Um and I
00:10:00was eight years old and I would wash the clothes on a scrub board --HENDERSON: Uh huh.
GREEN: -- in the yard. My mother took in some washing --
HENDERSON: Uh huh.
GREEN: -- at the time. Um --
HENDERSON: Oh, I didn't know that.
GREEN: Huh?
HENDERSON: I didn't know that.
GREEN: Yeah, she took in -- She just did like, um -- There were sailors, it was
a sailor, because Georgetown was a port where ships came into.HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: And she would do like men's, um, shirts -- not shirts -- underwear and
under, you know --HENDERSON: Right.
GREEN: -- handkerchiefs and socks and stuff like that. And I was scrubbing socks
and handkerchiefs and all that stuff in a scrub board in the yard.HENDERSON: Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
GREEN: Washing them, put them on the line. I remember one day, I was playing.
Mother went over to her mother's house and left me and I was playing. So I hurried up and washed them and put them on the line. So when they came back, 00:11:00they weren't clean. My mother spanked me good --HENDERSON: (laughter)
GREEN: -- put them back in the water, and I had to rewash those (unintelligible).
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: So, we were young and we had chores to do --
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- you know, so, um -- A lot of times you think you, you have a childhood
-- And, um, we, uh, we didn't think anything of it.HENDERSON: Right.
GREEN: I didn't think, um, nothing; I thought all children did at my age, you
know --HENDERSON: Right.
GREEN: -- at that age, down there --
HENDERSON: Right.
GREEN: -- they had chores to do and you did your chores.
HENDERSON: The -- But -- Was -- When you were that age down there, were all
children doing what you were doing?GREEN: Well! I, you know, I don't, I guess so. I (laughter) don't know --
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- because we were home doing ours, and I don't know what the other
children did.HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: Um, I know, um my cousins, like Carmelita and Norma Jean --
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- uh, I know they didn't do anything --
HENDERSON: Oh! (laughter)
GREEN: They were at momma's house; they didn't do that. We did (unintelligible) --
HENDERSON: So when you were talking about doing the chores, was that at momma's
00:12:00house or was that --GREEN: No, that was at my house.
HENDERSON: Oh, I see. Mm hmm.
GREEN: That was at my house, that was at my house --
HENDERSON: Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- uh, doing the chores.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: But I remember doing the chores --
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- and, um (unintelligible) we did chores. We'd usually go to momma's for
the afternoon. At that time, we were in school. So most of the time, in the days, you were in school.HENDERSON: Right.
GREEN: You came home and you did your chores and then we would go over to
momma's in the afternoon --HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- or on the weekend, you know (unintelligible) --
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: We never lived that far that we couldn't -- like two or three blocks and
we were in town.HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: And once we lived, they called it "across the road," which was, uh --
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: They didn't have any cars or, you know, so, so you had to walk wherever
you was, but it was a distance --HENDERSON: Oh.
GREEN: -- from her that we had to walk --
HENDERSON: Right.
GREEN: -- and we'd walk at night going back home. And, oh, it was pitch
00:13:00(emphasis) black.HENDERSON: Um --
GREEN: (Unintelligible) it was so dark, but we went. I don't know how we made
it! We went, we had to past a graveyard and I will never forget -- it was frightening!HENDERSON: (laughter)
GREEN: Yes, Rocky (laughter) was so scared. But we did.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: We played and we did.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: We did the things that we had to do.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: So coming up, you know, as a child, so -- A lot of times, um, growing up,
I didn't have the interactions with Ma, as maybe Sonya and Veronica did.HENDERSON: Right.
GREEN: You understand? I was the oldest girl, and so even after we moved to New
York, I was the oldest one in the house, so I had to do everything. I had to take care of the younger ones --HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: And so, um, I was always the one that did for the younger ones, took care
00:14:00of them, you know. Those were my chores and going to school.HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: And so I was their second mommy, I guess.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: But, um (long pause) that was, I don't know -- I don't remember -- I
'member a lot in Georgetown, but not, um (long pause) not doing anything much, uh, with my mom --HENDERSON: Right.
GREEN: -- um as far as, um, you know -- She would always be around at momma's
house, but so were all my other aunts and stuff --HENDERSON: Right.
GREEN: -- so if you did something, whoever'd get ahold of you first, that's who
you got the spanking from. (laughter)HENDERSON: (laughter)
GREEN: And we all used to get spanked together if we did something.
HENDERSON: Uh huh.
GREEN: We went under the house one day and, um started a fire. And Rocky was the
barber, and he cut Rock and I hair, and he cut me for about, Carmelita's hair -- 00:15:00He didn't cut so much out of mine.HENDERSON: Uh huh.
GREEN: And I don't know who set that fire under that house, but I tell you what,
when the whipping came, we all was stripped and whipped. I (unintelligible) (laughter) that as long as I live!HENDERSON: Well, now, lemme -- Okay, so I don't understand. Someone cut your
hair and then started a fire?GREEN: No, it was a fire started. We were cooking, I believe --
HENDERSON: Oh, I see.
GREEN: -- um, so we're playing cook, and --
HENDERSON: Oh!
GREEN: -- and he started a fire. The house was high, you know.
HENDERSON: Uh huh. Mm hmm.
GREEN: We used to play up under there. It was our "house."
HENDERSON: Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- and, um, we were cooking, I think, and, um, we started a fire and the
house didn't catch fire -- somebody went and told one of my uncles, I guess, and he came and put it out --HENDERSON: (laughter)
GREEN: -- so we got our tail whupping.
HENDERSON: Did --
GREEN: And Rocky was the hairdresser. He was, I think, she was the barber.
HENDERSON: Oh. (laughter)
GREEN: -- cutting hair, so he, he cut a big hunk out of Carma's head, yeah. He
didn't get to mine --HENDERSON: (laughter)
00:16:00GREEN: But, um, we got whipped for that -- all of us got whipped.
HENDERSON: Now, how, how many how many were you at that time, like with the fire
and with, um, Uncle Rocky --GREEN: It was, um, Carmie -- Uh, it was just us three --
HENDERSON: (laughter)
GREEN: -- because we were the oldest, Rocky, um, your Uncle Rocky and --
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- me, and, um, Carmelita.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
GREEN: Just the three of us --
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- playing, because we were the older children.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm. Mm hmm. And none, uh, and none of the -- And there weren't
any other cousins, no one else had come along quite yet.GREEN: No, we -- Yeah, they were small; they were small --
HENDERSON: Uh huh.
GREEN: -- you know, it was Verna and then Carmelita -- I mean Norma Jean --
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- and Ferdie, all of them was around, but they weren't up under there
with that fire (unintelligible) --HENDERSON: (laughter)
GREEN: (laughter) They weren't under the house, but they were playing in the
yard, around, you know --HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- um -- Ferdie was normally in the house, because he liked to eat raisin bread.
HENDERSON: Uh huh.
00:17:00GREEN: And like, momma had a table that he put all that stuff on --
HENDERSON: Uh huh.
GREEN: -- and Irvin just loved taking, he would stay in the house and he'd eat
raisin bread --HENDERSON: (laugh)
GREEN: I will never forget that (unintelligible) --
HENDERSON: (laugh)
GREEN: That boy loved his raisin bread, and he would stay in the house and eat
but, uh, other than that, they were, we were just playing, because we'd come out in the afternoon just like, just normal children normally do.HENDERSON: Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
GREEN: Play on the porch, you, you know. Yep.
HENDERSON: So, so, would you say that before you started going to school, when
you, that's when you were talking about being at momma's house all day long --GREEN: Uh huh.
HENDERSON: -- but then once school started, you would -- y'all would go and
visit her in the evenings after your chores --GREEN: Yeah, it would --
HENDERSON: -- were done?
GREEN: -- be in the evenings, um, you know and, uh some
on the weekends, you know?HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
00:18:00GREEN: We'd go to church or Sunday School --
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- and after that, you would just be over to momma's house.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: You know? Um -- Yeah, in the winter it got cold, not real cold like
(unintelligible) south, but it, it got cold. We'd stay in the house, but normally and we would have probably be over to momma house, too, 'round that -- She had a huge woodstove in the living room --HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- you know, and, um, that you put coal in and everybody would just be in
the living room and dining room and it was just having a good time.HENDERSON: Uh huh.
GREEN: My aunts lived there, Aunt Thedra --
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- she lived there --
HENDERSON: Uh huh.
GREEN: -- when I was a child, and Janie lived there with her two children,
upstairs. Irma lived there with hers (laughter) and her husband. They had, the bedrooms upstairs were huge --HENDERSON: Uh huh.
GREEN: -- and, um, they all lived there in that house with momma. Momma and
00:19:00Poppa had bedrooms downstairs on the first floor. But they all lived there. It was like a big family community.HENDERSON: Right.
GREEN: My mother was only one that did not live there.
HENDERSON: Hmm --
GREEN: She didn't live there and, uh, her brother didn't live there, but most of
those girls lived there.HENDERSON: Right. I didn't know that Sister Janie lived in that house.
GREEN: Yes, um, mother's sister, Janie.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: You know, not, um, little Janie that was, um, old.
HENDERSON: Oh --
GREEN: -- you know who I'm talking about?
HENDERSON: Uh --
GREEN: Um, Carmelita and Norma Jean's mother.
HENDERSON: Oh, this, uh --
GREEN: (Unintelligible) --
HENDERSON: Oh, okay. Okay.
GREEN: -- momma. Yeah. Her name was Janie, and, um, Genvieve but we called her
Aunt Janie.HENDERSON: Oh.
GREEN: And, um, they lived there for a while, they lived there --
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- 'till they went to New York.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: So, um, was [adults?] living in the house, one [children?] --
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: Irma lived there with hers. Thedra lived there, but she didn't have any
00:20:00children, so --HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: And, um you know that Sister (unintelligible) went to college.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: Mm hmm. They were in college when, um -- They weren't that much older
than Rocky was.HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: I think one of them was like seven years older than Rocky, and one was
five, so, see, momma's younger kids weren't that far over mother's children.HENDERSON: Right. Right.
GREEN: You know -- So, um that was in Georgetown, I guess, we was, you know
(unintelligible) --HENDERSON: Do you remember the names of your schools in Georgetown?
GREEN: I don't know what the elementary school was called.
HENDERSON: (laughter)
GREEN: Only one I know is Howard High School.
HENDERSON: (laugh)
GREEN: (Unintelligible) --
HENDERSON: But you didn't go -- but you didn't -- you didn't go to Howard High School?
GREEN: No. Huh uh. I didn't go to Howard --
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- but I don't remember the name of those, um that little school in
00:21:00Georgetown that was down the street. I can remember where it was, going, but I don't remember the name of it. Huh uh.HENDERSON: Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
GREEN: (Unintelligible) --
HENDERSON: So then in forty-five, y'all moved?
GREEN: I think we moved -- We left and moved in forty-five.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: because, um, Ronald was still, um a baby.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: (Unintelligible) child. He wasn't a year old yet, I don't think.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
GREEN: Um because we moved in the summer, too. We wasn't in school. I'm trying
to think --HENDERSON: It --
GREEN: -- Ronald was born in April --
HENDERSON: Uh huh.
GREEN: -- and if we moved the next year, he would've been a year old.
HENDERSON: Uh huh.
GREEN: Maybe it was a year old. I don't know (unintelligible) --
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: But, um and, anyway, we moved in the summer time --
HENDERSON: Um --
GREEN: -- and went to New York. I believe my --
HENDERSON: And so --
00:22:00GREEN: -- father went up first --
HENDERSON: Uh huh.
GREEN: -- and went working there for a while. And then he sent for us.
HENDERSON: And how did y'all get up there, because that's some -- I never
thought to ask before and no one's ever said. Did y'all drive? Did you take --GREEN: No, we --
HENDERSON: -- a train?
GREEN: -- took the train.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: We took the train up. Uh, mother got on that train and had, um, four
children (unintelligible) --HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: (Unintelligible) five, with the baby, yeah. She went up there with five
children --HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- and not knowing where she was going.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: Ha! We got on the train. She had us dressed, Kelly, like we were going to church.
HENDERSON: (laughter) Mm hmm.
GREEN: The boys had their little caps on, a hat.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: Um And one of them lost their hat. I think it was Irvin.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: The train window was up, and he stuck his head out and, uh, his hat blew
00:23:00off his head.HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: And I can remember on that train going with the windows up. We could've
all fallen out that window!HENDERSON: Right.
GREEN: Come to think of it! --
HENDERSON: (laughter)
GREEN: I think the conductor finally came and closed it if I'm not mistaken --
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- but we were blow -- And it was a such a long trip, you know --
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- with my mother not knowing where she was going -- had no idea! They
came to DC -- I will never forget it -- and she thought it, we were in New York.HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: We got off the train, had us going --
HENDERSON: Oh!
GREEN: -- off the train. The conductor has to come by -- because I can remember
that as a child -- and asked her, "Where are you going?" and she said, "I'm going to New York." He said, "This is not New York," and, "You get back onto that train." And he put us back on the train. He told my mother, "Now, you sit in here. Don't you move until I come and get you again!"HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: "When it's time for you to get off, I'll go come and get you!"
00:24:00HENDERSON: So y'all were fully off of the train, like on the platform?GREEN:
Yes. Moth -- mother was off the train --HENDERSON: (laugh) Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- and out on the platform.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: And, um (laugh), he told her, "Go back on that train and sit and don't
get off again." He told us he'd come and get us.HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: And at that time, you know, um it was (unintelligible) -- I mean, you
know --HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: But, so, the conductor was white. He was a very nice man --
HENDERSON: Right.
GREEN: -- from what I could tell. He didn't yell, he didn't -- He just helped
her as much as he could.HENDERSON: Right.
GREEN: I guess he seen this lady with these five children --
HENDERSON: Right. Right.
GREEN: How we -- I don't remember how we got food.
HENDERSON: I was just gonna say that. How did y'all eat?
GREEN: They, um, at that time, they used to pack, uh, food, lunch -- So mother
probably had food packed up and fed us. She didn't know where to get food, you know --HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- on the train (unintelligible) stopping, people would sell things, I
guess, but --HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
00:25:00GREEN: -- we stayed on the train, so, uh, she must've fried chicken or whatever.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: That's what they did back in those days. But we did, we took the train up.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: We went into, um, Penn Station got out and went and sat in the waiting
room -- you know, we sat and we waited and nobody came to pick us up.HENDERSON: What?
GREEN: We waited and waited and waited, and finally someone came, some lady from
Georgetown --HENDERSON: Uh huh.
GREEN: -- that mother knew -- an acquaintance, not a friend, too -- and she
said, "Samenia, where are you -- " She said, "I'm waiting for my husband to come pick us up."HENDERSON: Uh huh.
GREEN: And we waited and waited. They waited around. She had -- I don't know who
was picking up this lady -- but they didn't -- For some reason, Kelly, they did not leave --HENDERSON: Uh huh.
GREEN: Now, when I think back, I think (unintelligible) to this day, as old as I
00:26:00am, I think, you know, God was good looking after us.HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: It was -- Mother didn't know where she was going -- had no idea, and here
you try to travel with five children.HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: And this lady said, um -- Mother told them, she must've had a address,
evidently --HENDERSON: Uh huh.
GREEN: -- and she gave it to the lady. They put us in a cab, or whoever it was,
put us all in the car --HENDERSON: Uh huh.
GREEN: -- and drove us to Sister's house, my aunt's house.
HENDERSON: Oh, yeah. Uh huh.
GREEN: And when we got there -- they put us out and we went upstairs to her apartment.
HENDERSON: Uh huh.
GREEN: But Sister was not in the apartment but her husband was there --
HENDERSON: Uh huh.
GREEN: -- Uncle Buddy, Alvin -- He was, he was a strange person.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: That's all I can say about him, very strange.
HENDERSON: (laughter)
GREEN: He would not let us in.
HENDERSON: Oh!
00:27:00GREEN: He did not let us in that apartment and we, there we were, stuck and had
no place to go.HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: Um, tired, worn out, and we came back downstairs. I don't know who it was
that spoke to my mother, but this lady -- Someone told her where my Aunt Baby lived --HENDERSON: Uh huh.
GREEN: -- or someone went and got Baby. She lived around the corner --
HENDERSON: Uh huh.
GREEN: -- on Fifth Avenue and (unintelligible) --
HENDERSON: because Nana didn't know where she lived.
GREEN: No, huh? She didn't --
HENDERSON: Nana didn't -- Yeah, she didn't know where Baby lived?
GREEN: No, no, she had no idea where Baby lived --
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- and somebody I don't know who it was, some of the neighbors, and
(unintelligible) -- I, you know, because (dog barking, unintelligible) and, um -- Either someone went 'round to Baby house, sent a child 'round to Baby's, or something, but --HENDERSON: Uh huh.
00:28:00GREEN: -- anyway, Baby either came or we went there. I don't know --
HENDERSON: Uh huh.
GREEN: -- and we went up to Baby's house and that's where we were, my aunt's
house --HENDERSON: Uh huh.
GREEN: -- and my dad came back. He had gone down to the train station, looking
for us --HENDERSON: Uh huh.
GREEN: -- and, um, I think Sister was with him.
HENDERSON: Oh, I see. Uh huh.
GREEN: Yeah. But he was late --
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- and, um, when he found out that we were at Baby's house -- and I know
he came back, I know fussing with my mother for leaving or whatever --HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- which -- We, we, we could've ended up anywhere.
HENDERSON: Right. (laugh)
GREEN: But -- just so happened that, um, you know -- I tell ya God was with us --
HENDERSON: Right.
GREEN: -- he was truly with us, but, um -- So, we stayed with my Aunt Baby for a
while, and it's been a, it was, huh, it was a, was tough --HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- because she had five children.
HENDERSON: Oh, yeah! Okay.
00:29:00GREEN: Five children and Baby had one, two -- It was three bedrooms, so we had
to share -- Vern and I shared a bedroom with, um, my Cousin Rett --HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: She was a mean little heifer --
HENDERSON: (laughter)
GREEN: Now she's grown and we love her to death, but at that time she was mean
and selfish, because she was the only girl that they had.HENDERSON: Oh, Mm hmm.
GREEN: (Unintelligible) everything -- Yet, still, the same young lady, Rett, I'm
talking about was, when Baby left to come to New York, she stayed with us in Georgetown.HENDERSON: Oh, Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
GREEN: She stayed with us and the boys stayed with my other grandmother -- not
Nana, uh, Momma which was my father's mother --HENDERSON: Uh huh.
GREEN: And, uh, they would come to our house, in the meantime --
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: But Rett stayed with us --
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- and we were just like sisters, but when we got to New York, she didn't
want us to be there. She didn't want us in her, in her bedroom. But, now, that was funny, but -- And the boys bunked in, you know, in, laying on the couch and 00:30:00stuff --HENDERSON: Uh huh.
GREEN: -- until we had a place. My father was getting a house, but it wasn't
ready --HENDERSON: Oh, uh huh.
GREEN: -- and it was the next building from my Aunt's, the one that had the
crazy husband.HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: So, finally, we moved over there and that's where we all grew up.
HENDERSON: Uh huh.
GREEN: Um, we stayed there 'till, I stayed there 'till I got married and I left
-- And mother had her other children. She had five kids in Georgetown, and she had five in New York.HENDERSON: In New York -- And how did you feel, like what were your first
impressions of the city, when you moved there?GREEN: (laughter) I, I, you know,
Kelly, I don't remember how I felt -- scared --HENDERSON: Uh huh.
GREEN: -- I was very scared.
HENDERSON: Right.
GREEN: If you were down and you, you'd had no idea where you were going, um --
00:31:00Mother, I think had made [my cousins'?] mother, put into schools --HENDERSON: Uh huh.
GREEN: -- (unintelligible) of schools.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: And see the other cousins were going to school so they would come by and
get us and all the, and then take us to school.HENDERSON: Uh huh.
GREEN: You got acclimated real fast, and after that -- You were a child. You
learned the city real fast and (unintelligible) --HENDERSON: Right.
GREEN: because they knew how to get back and forth, because it's cold, you know,
but then you just grew up. You didn't think, learning the city --HENDERSON: Uh huh.
GREEN: Learning the city -- I don't think, at that time we weren't, um -- I
don't know. We became New Yorkers, I guess --HENDERSON: Uh huh.
GREEN: I don't wanna have anything to do with it now. I don't wanna go up
there --HENDERSON: (laughter)
GREEN: (laughter) Hmm um. Last time I went up there, I said, "Lord, get me off
this train."HENDERSON: (laughter)
GREEN: I don't even go to New York. I don't go nowhere near the city.
HENDERSON: When was the last time that you were there?
GREEN: I was there, um (long pause) -- When was it I come up from here?
00:32:00Ferdie's? No. I was there since Ferdie's funeral, since he died.HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: Um, so I had to go back, and we had to help clean that house. Um it's
been a while. I went up there for something, went to see about the grave again.HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: Um I'm trying to think. I went up with Verna and, uh Noble drove --
HENDERSON: Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- but I don't remember went up there before, because I stayed at Uncle
Rocky's house.HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: And I went up there and I still, I went to (unintelligible) house -- now,
what was I doing up there? I don't know --HENDERSON: (laugh)
GREEN: because I didn't go for no weddings or anything like that. I --
HENDERSON: Right.
GREEN: -- I didn't go back up there for that.
HENDERSON: Hm --
GREEN: But I don't, I don't, I don't know last time I was in New York. I don't know.
00:33:00HENDERSON: Mm hmm. Well, back to when, when, um you were talking about just
moving there, so when you all moved up there, you were, um around ten or eleven?GREEN: Yes. Yeah --
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- I was ten and Rocky was twelve.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
GREEN: Mm hmm.
HENDERSON: So you were ten, and so then would -- were you in the fifth grade at
that time?GREEN: Um (unintelligible) --
HENDERSON: Or fourth?
GREEN: I was in the -- I might've been in the fourth --
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- (unintelligible) elementary school.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm. And what --
GREEN: I probably was in the fourth grade.
HENDERSON: Hmm?
GREEN: I probably was in the fourth.
HENDERSON: In the fourth grade? And so what are some memories that you had of
school when you moved up to New York -- elementary school?GREEN: It was it was
00:34:00different because the kids were more advanced --HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- in the, in the class that we were, in the -- You know? And so it was
something that you had to get used to, that work that they were giving us --HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- and that's where Ma came in, uh, we'd come home with homework in
Momma's house, you know, and she would help us --HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- (unintelligible) well, catch up really, but she, um she would help us
with our homework and help us with whatever we needed --HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- and clunk me in the head.
HENDERSON: (laugh)
GREEN: She used to thump (laugh) -- That's what mother did. (Screeching) "Didn't
I tell that word (unintelligible)?!" It would hurt you so bad, but that's what she did. She'd [cuff, thump, pop?] me in the head.HENDERSON: (laugh) I think what's funny is that everybody is telling kind of
completely different stories about everything but that -- Like that's the one thing that's the same --GREEN: (Unintelligible) --
00:35:00HENDERSON: Every single person has talked about getting thumped in the head --
GREEN: (Unintelligible) --
HENDERSON: -- over words.
GREEN: Yes, thump --
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- she would thump you in a minute --
HENDERSON: (laughter)
GREEN: "Didn't I tell you what that word was?" thump, thump, thump, thump --
HENDERSON: (laugh)
GREEN: (laughter) And so, um -- But you learned, and you finally moved, you know
grade, grade, moved on up --HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: (sigh) And, finally, graduating, but, um, I worked I worked the whole
time. I worked some (unintelligible) --HENDERSON: Mm hmm. Worked, you mean --
GREEN: -- (unintelligible) I worked at a department store. My aunt work there --
HENDERSON: Uh huh.
GREEN: -- at Klein's, and so I've worked. At her department store and grades at
school, and took care of home --HENDERSON: Uh huh.
GREEN: -- you know, so I didn't have time for, lots of socializing.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: Just was very quiet, um, when I was, uh home. I didn't go out like the
00:36:00other young kids when I was young.HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: They would be out playing and doing something and I would down there
babysitting like the mothers --HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: Um, had to take them down in the summer. We had to go downstairs with
them, so --HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- I would have to, um, go down there. I would sit down there with them.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: I'd be down there with them. And then later on that evening, mother would
come down --HENDERSON: Right.
GREEN: -- at five or six with the other parents, and then I could go off and play.
HENDERSON: Right. Right.
GREEN: But, uh, it was no place for me to go and play, you know --
HENDERSON: Right.
GREEN: -- 'till we'd have to go back upstairs. But most kids [had a turn?]
socializing doing things, but I, I never did.HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: I never did. Um I don't know. Sometime I feel that my childhood was --
And I, I guess I shouldn't say, I feel ashamed saying it sometimes.HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: I almost feel that, um, my childhood was taken away from me because most
00:37:00children --HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- because they had a social life, they played, they fished, and I always
had to work --HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- and, um, look after my sisters and brothers, you know.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
GREEN: I never thought much about it until I got grown!
HENDERSON: Right.
GREEN: And after I had my children, and I would say, you know, I really didn't
have a childhood. I've worked in my mother's household taking care of her children, and went right into my own household and started taking care of my own children, you know.HENDERSON: Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
GREEN: But, um, I think we all did that, because I left home and, uh, went and
got married --HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- and then I left Verna with the burden --
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: Well, at that time, Terrell was a little, little girl, and teething.
HENDERSON: Uh huh.
00:38:00GREEN: So, see, mother had Sonya and Veronica, she, uh, when I left home she was pregnant.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: I did not know that.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: I had no idea. Vern said, "Well, I knew it!" (laughter) but, see, I
didn't, and I didn't have time to even to pay attention to Mother, I didn't. Verna paid attention to everything, but she was expecting, uh, Veronica --HENDERSON: Uh huh.
GREEN: -- well, a baby, wasn't, didn't know what it was gonna be --
HENDERSON: Right.
GREEN: -- but she never told me that she was pregnant. I was, here I am,
seventeen, eighteen -- You couldn't talk about those things. She didn't talk about those things --HENDERSON: Uh huh.
GREEN: -- um, at all,. She whipped me one day when I told her the lady
downstairs was pregnant --HENDERSON: Wow.
GREEN: -- and she, (imitating shrieking) "Who told you that?" -- Ah, she, she
got all over me as if I'd said a bad, something bad, you know (unintelligible) --HENDERSON: Well, why, why, but why? I mean --
GREEN: She didn't speak about it.
HENDERSON: Oh. So she didn't speak about anyone being pregnant, ever?
GREEN: No. No. And at that -- I was too young. That wasn't supposed to come out
00:39:00of my mouth.HENDERSON: Oh, I see.
GREEN: And I think I was twelve or thirteen, maybe -- maybe fourteen when I told
her the lady downstairs was pregnant and was gonna have a baby.HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: Well, you know, we learned that in school --
HENDERSON: Um -- Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- but I wasn't supposed to say that, you know. She really got down on
me. But, at any rate, she was expecting a baby and I didn't know it --HENDERSON: Right.
GREEN: -- so I went off and I got married.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: Now, she had Veronica in September --
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- and the next July I had my first child.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
GREEN: And, then, after that, she had Ro -- um, Sonia --
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- the next November --
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- and my next child was born in March.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: So, see, she had, her last two was close to my two.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: You know. Um, so, uh Verna took care of Terrell and T.J. when I left home --
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
00:40:00GREEN: -- and then when these two little ones came along, Verna took care of them.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: She took care of those girls um, but, um, I wasn't around. I
(unintelligible) you know, away from (unintelligible) --HENDERSON: Now the work, like when you're, when you're talking about all of the
work that you had to do as one of the oldest children, and you were, you were saying that you didn't really think much of it then, when you were doing it --GREEN: No, I did it because that's something I knew I had to do. Uh, it wasn't
something that you would say, "I'm not gonna do it," oh, no. Um, I had never, ever talked back to my mother.HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: Um and I'm almost eighty -- She's dead and gone, but I never talked back
to her.HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
00:41:00GREEN: I never said "No," I wasn't going to do that.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: You just didn't do that, you know.
HENDERSON: Do you like, like, like --
GREEN: (Unintelligible) --
HENDERSON: You just didn't do that, like you, personally, didn't do that, or
just at that time period, young people didn't do that with their parents?GREEN: Um, yeah, most young people didn't (unintelligible) --
HENDERSON: Uh huh.
GREEN: -- but I didn't, I, I was, you know, grow up like that, I was taught you
just didn't do that --HENDERSON: Right.
GREEN: -- and I just didn't, I wouldn't dare tell my mother I wasn't going to do
that, you know.HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: Mother was she was always sickly --
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- and I don't now whether she was sickly or --
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- or she'd pretend. I don't know what it was.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: But she was always a sick person --
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- and so I always had to do the kids --
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
00:42:00GREEN: -- and (unintelligible) -- Um, I can remember getting up in the morning,
going to school -- now I might have, when I was in high school, say I went to school at ten o'clock, that's high school, big school. Um, I would get up and get the boys up, and Perry was one of the hardest --HENDERSON: (laugh)
GREEN: -- child to get up.
HENDERSON: (laughter)
GREEN: Perry had -- Perry did not want to go to school.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: And mother would never get up to get this boy off to school, and it was
just me, and I'm screaming, "Mom, make Perry come in here and put his clothes on. Make Perry put his clothes on."HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: "(Unintelligible, imitating yelling)" She get up and yell at Perry,
Perry'd put his clothes on -- One morning, I was getting this boy ready for school, school, and I did not want to do it --HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: I put one foot in the pants, and while I put the other one in, he pulled
it out.HENDERSON: (laugh)
GREEN: I just hauled off and popped that boy's legs so hard,
00:43:00(laughter), whipped his legs, and said, "There. Put those clothes on."HENDERSON:
Mm hmm.GREEN: And got ready, and I took him to school.
HENDERSON: (laughter)
GREEN: That day, at the schoolhouse, going to school --
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- I came (unintelligible) I just got ready and I went to school.
HENDERSON: Uh huh.
GREEN: Somebody called and said this little boy was out there around the school
just standing up, not going to school.HENDERSON: (laughter)
GREEN: That Perry was outside of the school, hiding (unintelligible) --
HENDERSON: (laughter)
GREEN: He was somethin' else, but (unintelligible) did not want to go to school
00:44:00(unintelligible) --HENDERSON: How old was he when -- About how old was he when that happened?
GREEN: I don't know. Perry was maybe -- He was a little boy. He was in
elementary school.HENDERSON: (laughter)
GREEN: (laughter) He was elementary school. Um, yeah, no, yeah, he was
elementary school when that happened.HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: And he did not wanna go to school did not wanna go to school. But I
didn't call mother that morning. But mother, like I said, she (unintelligible) I would have to get up and dress them and get them ready, get them off to school --HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- and get their breakfast. She was in bed.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: Then I had to get myself ready to get out, you know.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: (Unintelligible) -- Now, that was not my job --
HENDERSON: Yeah.
GREEN: -- but I had to do it.
HENDERSON: Now, when you were, could you, you all got up, you all moved up there
when you were, um, ten, and so how old were you when you were getting them up and getting them ready for school and all this kind of stuff?GREEN: Um I wasn't
a senior. I wasn't seventeen -- Probably around sixteen, fifteen --HENDERSON: Uh huh.
GREEN: -- seventeen, when I was getting them up, you know, getting them off to
school, because I was in high school.HENDERSON: And he was and Uncle Perry was the youngest one, trying to get out of
going to school?GREEN: Yeah, he wasn't the youngest then, because, um, Terrell was behind him,
00:45:00and so was T.J.HENDERSON: Ohhh --
GREEN: -- they were born.
HENDERSON: Oh, okay.
GREEN: They were there --
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: Um, I don't think they were in school.
HENDERSON: Oh, I see.
GREEN: Or were they in school? I can't remember the years now, specifically.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: Um, but, um Ferdie would go to school, Ferdie was in Cooper -- I think
Rocky. Rocky was in high school --HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- and Irvin was still in Cooper --
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- um, Ronald -- I don't know if Ronald was in Cooper. He might've been
in that school.HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: But, um one twenty-three -- I mean, yeah, one-oh-three --
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- that, that was the elementary school. And I think that's where Perry
was --HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- in one-oh-three. Now, I don't know if Terrell was in there, because I
didn't think Terrill was in school. I don't think -- I don't know. I don't know, 00:46:00um -- I wish I knew what class (unintelligible) [what time it was?] --HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: (Unintelligible) --
HENDERSON: So you would get up in the mornings, get everybody else ready, go to
school -- this is when we're, say, this is when you're in high school, go to school --GREEN: Yeah.
HENDERSON: So what high school were you attending?
GREEN: I was attending
Washington Irving High School --HENDERSON: Uh huh.
GREEN: -- down on, um, Fourteenth Street, we lived a Hundred and Sixteenth Street.
HENDERSON: And the high school was on Fourteenth Street?
GREEN: (Unintelligible) --
HENDERSON: So how did you get to school?
GREEN: Subway.
HENDERSON: Ah --
GREEN: I caught the subway. I walked over to um -- two blocks -- and caught the
subway --HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- and went to school and from school, when I got out of class, I walked
00:47:00one, two blocks to a square, Trafalgar Square --HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- and, um, S. Klein's Department Store was in that square --
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- and that's where I went and went to work. So I didn't get off of work
until at night, sometime eleven, twelve and I'd --(break in audio, 47:21 -- 47:37)
HENDERSON: You would go to work until almost midnight. So when did you do homework?
GREEN: At school, at, at the, the store --
HENDERSON: Uh huh.
GREEN: -- I would go, get out of the school and go, when I was going to the
cafeteria, and I would sit there and do my homework --HENDERSON: Uh huh.
00:48:00GREEN: -- you know, before I'd go to, on the job.
HENDERSON: Uh huh.
GREEN: Before I'd start to work. I had time in between.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: And I would do my, um do homework.
HENDERSON: And so then you would make it home somewhere at eleven, around --
GREEN: (Unintelligible) --
HENDERSON: -- eleven o'clock?
GREEN: Yeah.
HENDERSON: And then you'd get up and just do it all the next day?
GREEN: Yep. Do it all over again. Do it all over again.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm. What, uh, when you were working, were you working because you wanted
the job or -- Like what caused you to work at Klein's?GREEN: Well, I, I started working because, um, I called myself wanting to help
out --HENDERSON: Uh huh.
GREEN: -- and, um, you know, there was just my dad working, um -- He was a
00:49:00presser --HENDERSON: Uh huh.
GREEN: -- and a cleaner and, um, it was just him. There was things you wanted,
things I wanted as a, you know, teenager, um, so I started working.HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: Um, but, uh, when I got paid [course?] I would offer mother money but
she'd never take it.HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: She would never take any money from me --
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- and, so, what I would do, whatever the boys needed - and I say "boys"
because it was, um, usually Ronald and, and, um, Perry; T.J. was small. I would take him (unintelligible) -- But (unintelligible) shoes, and I'd take them, I would take them to the store and I'd buy them shoes.HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: If they needed overcoats, I'd buy them, take them and go buy overcoats.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: So I used my money that way.
HENDERSON: Right. I see.
GREEN: She wouldn't take the money from me, but then I would use it to help buy
the kids' clothes and things that (unintelligible) that's what I would do. 00:50:00HENDERSON: Mm hmm. And they would know --
GREEN: (Unintelligible) --
HENDERSON: -- like Nana would know --
GREEN: (Unintelligible) --
HENDERSON: -- that you got them?
GREEN: Well, she did. She did, yeah.
HENDERSON: Uh huh. Mm hmm.
GREEN: She did. I -- I'm quite sure she appreciated it --
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- very much, but, um she just wouldn't take the money from me --
HENDERSON: Right.
GREEN: -- so, um, like I said, I just bought the kids the --
HENDERSON: Right.
GREEN: -- things that the kids needed -- shoes, coats, whatever they needed, I
bought it.HENDERSON: Right.
GREEN: So -- I thought I was helping. In a way, you know, I was helping out.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm. Hmm --
GREEN: Yep. I didn't really -- I bought things for myself, but not that much.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: I didn't, um squander money by going out, partying and stuff.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: That wasn't me. I didn't do that --
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: I (unintelligible) --
HENDERSON: Mm hmm. Do you, do you -- When you were in high school, do you
00:51:00remember ever thinking that the things that you did, or your life, was different than other girls your age, like the things that you were doing during the day and everything like that, or it, was that just kind of common for --GREEN: No, that wasn't common.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: That was what I did.
HENDERSON: Uh huh.
GREEN: Uh, uh, my other girlfriends or the girls I knew -- even ones around the
block -- you know, they didn't do that. They partied, they went out --HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- you know, they always said, "Hey, come on," you know?
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: Um, they they were, had good times. They went out, New Year's Eve,
everybody was going out -- I, I didn't go.HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: I stayed home. I would just -- it wasn't me --
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: And nobody didn't force me not to go --
HENDERSON: Right.
GREEN: -- it just was -- I was -- I just wasn't the party type.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: I just, um, just like -- I didn't like -- For one thing, I did not like
to be around people who drank or partied, because I've always felt that when 00:52:00people get too drunk or, you know, they don't know what they're doing, you know --HENDERSON: Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- and that's where, there's something always happens --
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- so, um I did not I did not go --
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: I didn't really have a boyfriend until I guess, uh [writing?] -- Matter
of fact, [there was someone?], I was writing him -- he was in the military -- since I was sixteen --HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- and, I think when I was -- He came back from overseas when I was, I
guess (unintelligible) -- But, um, I didn't have boyfriends (unintelligible) you know, like some of the girls did. I didn't [have a boyfriend?].HENDERSON: So you were saying that you were writing to Uncle Melvin before you
all actually met?GREEN: Yes. Yes.
HENDERSON: So how did that happen? How did you start writing to him if you had
never met him? 00:53:00GREEN: Ah he, or his first cousin --
HENDERSON: Uh huh.
GREEN: -- his mother's first cousin lived in our building --
HENDERSON: Uh huh.
GREEN: -- uh, down on the second floor, and I'd babysit for her.
HENDERSON: Uh huh.
GREEN: Name was Rose -- I would babysit for her. Now, when mother would come up,
his mother would come up to visit Rose --HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- and my mother was (unintelligible) to Rose and she would go down
there. These three ladies would be down there drinking tea - well, my mother tea-drinker. I don't what the other ladies, some of them drank coffee.HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: Just talking, uh, Miss Seleta, Seleta Green. That was Melvin's, uh,
mother -- she had family in New York --HENDERSON: Um --
GREEN: -- and she (unintelligible) but she didn't know how to get there, so
mother --HENDERSON: Ah, Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- says, um, "You know, she'll be glad to take you," and, "You, needed to
go, she'll take you."HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: And so she asked me would I, and I said, "Sure."
00:54:00HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: I took her on the bus and I took a book --
HENDERSON: Um --
GREEN: -- and I took her to her cousin's house and -- Her cousin lived in a
railroad apartment, you know, with the one room into another room into another room -- that's the way it was --HENDERSON: Uh huh.
GREEN: And they were in the kitchen in the back and I went all the way up front
(unintelligible) and I sat in the window in that apartment and I just sat there and read --HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- and watched the people out on the street, so I would stay and wait.
And when she was ready to go, she'll (unintelligible) "I'm ready to go," and I'd bring her back home.HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: Well, I did that several times and she said, "Oh, she is so nice! I wish
my son could meet her."HENDERSON: Ohhh --
GREEN: That's how I did.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: Well, they conjure up a letter --
HENDERSON: (laughter)
GREEN: -- and I knew my mother wrote that letter, but his mother was, you know,
and Rose wasn't, she was illiterate; she couldn't write like that.HENDERSON: Um -- Mm hmm.
GREEN: My mother wrote, wrote a letter and (unintelligible) his mother did --
HENDERSON: Uh huh.
00:55:00GREEN: -- talking about this young lady who was so kind to her and took her and,
you know, you should write her and blah-blah-blah --HENDERSON: (laugh)
GREEN: Well, I didn't know they did this.
HENDERSON: Oh! (laughter)
GREEN: Ha, but one day I got a letter in the mail, says "Corporal Adolph M.
Green," "Melvin Green," I think it had his whole name --HENDERSON: Uh huh.
GREEN: I thought, "Who (unintelligible) that?"
HENDERSON: (laugh)
GREEN: And I was looking, I said, "I don't know nobody," and I opened the letter
and it, this guy told me that he had a picture in there. I thought he was the most ugliest man I'd seen --HENDERSON: (laughter)
GREEN: -- but I (unintelligible) like this boy, not me, I don't know why you
wrote me, and so I was (unintelligible) --HENDERSON: (laughter)
GREEN: And mother told me, "Don't do that," she said, "at least write him back
and thank him for writing you," (unintelligible) --HENDERSON: Had she told you by that point, had she told you by then that she
wrote a letter to him?GREEN: No, she wrote the letter for his mother.
00:56:00HENDERSON: Or that she -- But did she tell you anything about that first letter?
GREEN: No. No, no --
HENDERSON: No?
GREEN: -- she didn't tell me she was -- Yeah, she did
(unintelligible) she said that Seleta wanted to, wanted him to meet me and, um --HENDERSON: Oh, I see.
GREEN: -- you know --
HENDERSON: Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- she (unintelligible) don't do it -- The (unintelligible) -- She said,
"At least you can write him and say," you know, "you received his letter and (unintelligible) -- He's, he's, uh, overseas, away from home, and he's fighting for our country," blah, blah, blah, so I wrote him and I (unintelligible) "Thank you for writing me," and blah, blah, whatever she had said in the letter.HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: (Unintelligible) he answered it. And I asked her to (unintelligible) and
that's how we started. He would write and I had his letters, whatever he asked in the letter, I answered him, and we had, and we wrote like that for years.HENDERSON: (laugh)
00:57:00GREEN: After two years, I knew him, in and out.
HENDERSON: Uh huh.
GREEN: You can't lie in a letter.
HENDERSON: Uh huh. Mm hmm.
GREEN: You know, you can, think you can lie in a letter, but you go back and
read those letters --HENDERSON: Other letters.
GREEN: You gotta keep that lie going, you know.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
GREEN: Um, I met him, and that's when he came back from overseas, he came to the
city, because he was on his way to South Carolina.HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: That's where they lived.
HENDERSON: Uh huh.
GREEN: And he came to New York and, um, came here -- it was like twelve o'clock
at night, one o'clock at night, something like that, he came knocking on that door and said, "Whoa," (laughter) -- My parents were sleep, because they were sleeping in the living room.HENDERSON: Uh huh.
GREEN: And, uh, I went outside to the hall, and I talked to him for a while.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: And he brought my mother back a clock. He gave her a beautiful clock.
It's one of those clocks that, um has a dome on it, and it curves --HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: I don't know if you ever saw that clock that mother (unintelligible) --
HENDERSON: I have seen -- Mm hmm. I, I remember it. Mm hmm.
00:58:00GREEN: Yeah, he gave her that. And so, um I (unintelligible) next day. But he
stayed for awhile, and then he left. And he went on to South Carolina.HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: Well, I never heard from him no more.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: I got sick, Kelly, I really did, because it hurt me that I hadn't heard
from him, you know.HENDERSON: Right.
GREEN: He just went home and had him a high old time, I guess.
HENDERSON: (laughter)
GREEN: Well, my mother called his mother. My mother called her, I think that she
called her. Had to, must've got, got the number from Rose, and called her. She says, "What happened?" says, um, "He just left and didn't call Sadie. She was upset about it," but -- Well, his mother must have got on him, because he did call me --HENDERSON: Uh huh.
GREEN: -- and after that he called me (unintelligible) because he stationed in
Massachusetts --HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- Westover Air Base, in Massachusetts. And so he could come down to the
city quite often.HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
00:59:00GREEN: On his days off he would come and stay with Rose and we would go out to
plays or in the theatres or whatever. And that's, that's the way it happened. It ended up getting better.HENDERSON: (laughter)
GREEN: I didn't have to be lonely.
HENDERSON: Ahhh --
GREEN: I eloped -- I guess you called it "eloped." Nobody else did -- no, Verna did.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: because I had packed my stuff way ahead of time -- My mother and father
didn't, um --HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- but, yeah. No one else (unintelligible) --
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: Almost got killed that night, too.
HENDERSON: You almost got killed?
GREEN: The guy who was (unintelligible) the car -- A lot of people don't even
know about (unintelligible) -- The guy who was driving the car was a, a G.I. that he'd worked with in had gone to get him -- It was another guy came down with him, and they picked me up, and we were in the back of the car. Well, they all fell asleep.HENDERSON: Oop!
GREEN: Weaver fell asleep behind the wheel of their car. I wasn't sleepy, so I
01:00:00happened to look and when I looked up, I saw a telephone pole in the front of the car. I screamed.HENDERSON: Uh huh.
GREEN: Weaver grabbed the wheel of that car, woke up, and pulled it and he hit
one, two, three. I had it in my head (unintelligible) those poles --HENDERSON: Oh!
GREEN: -- big chunks out of it, all the way down.
HENDERSON: (laughter)
GREEN: When the cop came, he said, "You guys are the luckiest people I ever seen."
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: He said, "(Unintelligible)" he said, "You were a strong man to hold that car."
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: (Unintelligible) -- because he had a big car.
HENDERSON: Right.
GREEN: (Unintelligible) -- But, um, God saved my life that night.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: I shouldn't have done it, and I've thought about that many a day.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: I said, "Is God trying to tell me something?" but, um, that's how my life
started off with (unintelligible) -- (laughter) 01:01:00HENDERSON: You said, "Was God trying to tell you something," as far as what?
GREEN: Did I do something wrong? Should I have done what I did?
HENDERSON: Uh huh. Mm hmm.
GREEN: Yeah, should I have left home like that. You know?
HENDERSON: Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
GREEN: I know it hurt my mother. I really do -- I think it hurt her very much.
Like I told you, she was expecting, but I didn't know it.HENDERSON: Uh huh.
GREEN: And, um you know, I had gotten to the point that I thought it was time
for me to leave, leave home. I had gotten out of school.HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: I wasn't going to college, really.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: Um didn't have any money to go --
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- and wasn't -- I needed a good job and really couldn't find a good job --
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- so I just -- I, I think I was just running away.
HENDERSON: Uh huh.
GREEN: Truly, I believe, I was just running away. Um, you're grown, you're
living in the house, and you got all those children in the house --HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
01:02:00GREEN: -- (unintelligible) in that house.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: You know, in a two-bedroom apartment --
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- with one bathroom, and people talk about that -- I (unintelligible) --
We grew up in a one-bathroom house (unintelligible) -- You could eat in the kitchen, but it was so tiny --HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- and there was the living room next to the bathroom and that we
(unintelligible) ten people in a house. We grew up in New York with ten people in a two-bedroom house.HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: That's the way most of us did -- our neighbors, too.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: You know, they had one huge bedroom, and there were bunk beds in there --
that's where all the boys stayed. And the other bedroom was a smaller one, had Verna, myself and Terrell stayed in there.HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: And my mother and father had a, uh, a hide-a-bed in the living room --
HENDERSON: Uh huh.
GREEN: -- that they, that that's where they slept.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: So, um, we made it. We didn't argue. We didn't fight. You know, we had
01:03:00one bathroom. You, "I gotta get in the bathroom!" "Okay, be right out." You know? You did not argue. I don't know how we made it, but we did.HENDERSON: I don't know how y'all made it either --
GREEN: (Unintelligible) --
HENDERSON: -- because I can't imagine one bathroom with all those people.
GREEN: (Unintelligible) -- We had one bathroom. All of the apartments had one
bathroom --HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- and so you (unintelligible) you know, um -- Some of the bath -- uh,
bedrooms -- apartments had three bedrooms and most of them had just two.HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: Um, I (unintelligible) most of the kids (unintelligible) -- Mother moved
downstairs and had a three-bedroom.HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- when Sonia and Veronica was young, in the house, they had, before my
dad died (unintelligible) -- Everybody else had (unintelligible) -- Yeah, that's how we grew up.HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: And we played in the hall. We would sit out in the hall and play jacks
and, and talk and, you know -- It was, the hall was a square. It was a big 01:04:00square. And so we had, we had -- or go downstairs, that's where you were -- You just have to run all over the place. But, um you know?HENDERSON: So could you tell me a little bit about your experience in, in high
school, like what school, high school was like for you?GREEN: Ah well, I guess it was okay.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: I got sick when I was in high school. I became anemic at first when I
went to high school, very anemic, and so I had to ride the elevator and not take gym for a while, but (unintelligible) okay (unintelligible) um, but I had to ride the elevators and go through a first floor and go up, you know, and stuff. 01:05:00But, um, after I got over that, it was, um -- I guess it was it was during the time that we had, um Communism was [present?] -- We had a teacher who was a Communist.HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: Didn't know that -- She was a economical teacher, yeah?
HENDERSON: Uh huh.
GREEN: But I didn't know, really, she was a Communist --
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- and, um, she taught us, but they came and arrest her and took her out
of school one day --HENDERSON: Oh!
GREEN: -- because she was a she was a Communist.
HENDERSON: Uh huh.
GREEN: I'll never forget that day. I can't even remember the day right now, but
there were police, though.HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: Um, but, um school wasn't -- I (unintelligible) school was okay.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: I didn't do anything different than (unintelligible) -- Um, I didn't
01:06:00belong to any clubs (unintelligible) or you know (unintelligible) or anything like that -- So I went to school and went to work and that, that was it.HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: Um, but it was, it was okay. It was a large school a very large school.
Um graduation, had graduation at a theatre --HENDERSON: Uh huh.
GREEN: -- because it was so large, so large, and, um something [that happened
the day I?] graduate. It wasn't a hundred it was more, you know, a couple of hundred that were graduating. She'd never, never gone to school so then (unintelligible) stories.HENDERSON: Ah. Mm hmm.
GREEN: But, um, I guess I just had a normal -- Didn't have any special
(unintelligible) during high school --HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
01:07:00GREEN: -- (unintelligible) went to school and came out and went to work, you
know. I, um, didn't do anything foolish.HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: I -- When I was down (unintelligible) school, my mother put me in -- I
wanted to play the violin, and my father was (unintelligible) --HENDERSON: Oh.
GREEN: He told me, "Well, you don't play no violin (unintelligible). Black kids
don't play no violin."HENDERSON: Oh, my!GREEN: Um, so I didn't get to play the violin, so my mother
put me in, um singing and tapping.HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: And that was kind of (unintelligible) went to school (unintelligible) and
so, so, I took tap dancing and singing --HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- take the bus and go downtown and I'd do that, you know?
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: Um, and that was my outlet, I guess. My outlet --
HENDERSON: Hmm --
GREEN: I always wanted to take violin. Why would I wanna play the violin? I
don't know how to tell you. I liked music, you know, that I (unintelligible) 01:08:00forget to say anything. (Unintelligible) --HENDERSON: And when you were put in the, um, the tap classes, about how old were
you then?GREEN: Oh, I -- Um (unintelligible) -- twelve or thirteen (unintelligible) --
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: I remember that.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: Um yeah I guess 'round that age.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- um -- I was just around that age, I was, because I didn't stay in it a
long time -- I mean I did it, but I don't know how long I tap danced -- a couple of years.HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: And that was it. I made records --
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: The last record I made my mother, she sent to her mother, and her cousin
lost the record. It was Nat King Cole, "Unforgettable." I'll never forget that. 01:09:00I love that song!HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: And I sang that on our wedding, and my grandmother never got it --
HENDERSON: Hmm.
GREEN: Mother put the, sent it to momma for her to hear it, and, um her cousin
lost the thing --HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- going down there, lost it on the, on the train or something. Everybody
went by train then.HENDERSON: Uh huh.
GREEN: Uh, very seldom you heard somebody fly. You didn't fly. It was by the
train, the train or bus (unintelligible) you know. So, um, I made several little [records, tape records?] --HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: Um, the seniors had recitals, recitals, but (unintelligible) sing that, I
didn't try to get in touch (unintelligible) --HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
HENDERSON: Hmm -- Oh, I was thinking about where your high school, why was it so
01:10:00far away?GREEN: Well, um, it depends on what high school you wanted to go to.
HENDERSON: Uh huh.
GREEN: Each high school, uh, was, uh for, um different, uh, curriculums.
HENDERSON: Uh huh.
GREEN: Some high school was strictly academic, some was like commercial --
HENDERSON: Uh huh --
GREEN: -- uh, mine was a, uh, shorthand, typing -- it had, you know, secretarial
stuff like that.HENDERSON: Oh, I see.
GREEN: Others, then, if you wanted to go into aca -- teaching, that was another
high school, so that's the way they were, and, um, they're, there are kind of schools you just had to get into. Some high schools, you couldn't -- your grades had to be a certain, um average in order for you to get into high school --HENDERSON: Uh huh.
GREEN: -- or you couldn't get in.
HENDERSON: Right.
01:11:00GREEN: Um, so, um, I forgot what high school Verna and them went to.
HENDERSON: Um --
GREEN: She went to a different high school than me.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: Um and I think the boys did, too. I think they were -- The boys -- Yeah,
it depends on what you wanted to major in.HENDERSON: Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
GREEN: (Unintelligible) --
HENDERSON: And you didn't think that -- Were you not interested in going to
college after high school?GREEN: No, I didn't, I really didn't think of it, Kelly, because I didn't, I
couldn't afford it. I probably could have sacrificed and gone, you know, but I knew my parents couldn't help me.HENDERSON: Right.
GREEN: I'd have to put my way through.
HENDERSON: Right.
GREEN: You know? And, um, I wasn't the smartest kid on the block (laugh) you
know, so, um -- because I was just average, average, you know. Some of the kids were very smart -- Verna and Perry, Ron, they were all (unintelligible) than me 01:12:00-- I barely got by (unintelligible) -- Rocky and I -- Still I think, what, what, what I felt, too, about the beginning --HENDERSON: Yeah. Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- um, didn't have the money, didn't have the background, didn't have the
beginning --HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- and we didn't have it, neither one of us had it.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: We didn't get it. The other kids did.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: You know, they started in, in the City and they, they got what they
needed (unintelligible) where we started in, in South Carolina, we, we didn't really get [the same thing?] --HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: We just didn't, didn't have it --
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: Um, so --
HENDERSON: Hmm --
GREEN: (Unintelligible) [ignorant?] --
HENDERSON: (laugh)
GREEN: (laugh) (Unintelligible) --
HENDERSON: (laugh)
GREEN: I mean (unintelligible) school (unintelligible) but I got the common
sense (unintelligible) -- 01:13:00HENDERSON: (laughter)
GREEN: But, you know (unintelligible) put it in, "What's (unintelligible)?" But
I, I had thought about it.HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: Um, you know, I went off and got married early.
HENDERSON: Uh huh.
GREEN: I don't know if I had it to do again, I guess I would because I had my
children and I would've give them up for anything now.HENDERSON: Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
GREEN: Um, but, um maybe I would have gotten married more slowly than I did, um,
because I (unintelligible) --HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: But girls did back then.
HENDERSON: Right.
GREEN: You know, you, you got, you got out of high school and you really got
married. You, you didn't, they didn't push going to college.HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: Um, so most of us, when we got out of high school, went and got married.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: Um I think all of us did.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Hmm -- That's interesting. I think, um -- I
01:14:00don't know. The, the, the just through -- When you were saying that you think "all of us did," do you mean as far as all of your sisters, or do you mean "all of us did" as far as the people that you graduated with?GREEN: Yeah, um I don't know really what happened to most of the young ladies
that I graduated with, but all my girlfriends that I had, I know they did not --HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- they ended up getting married, too. Um you know. Yeah, most of us,
most, most of those girls did get married.HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: because didn't go onto, um, higher education.
HENDERSON: Right. Hmm -- Okay.
GREEN: I don't know whether it was our environment -- I, I really don't know.
All of us grew up with just you know (unintelligible) you know, finances, you 01:15:00know --HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: You just grew up, you know, with (unintelligible). Our parents didn't
have any.HENDERSON: Right. Hmm -- Yeah. And what, and do you think -- and this is gonna
be -- because I know that we're running late, and so I think this is probably gonna be my last question for the night, and then, if you are interested, I'd like to follow-up with you pretty soon. You know, just think about what we talked about tonight and then I might have other questions -- But when, when you understand and, um, I know it's hard to speak for your friends, but y'all understood that your parents couldn't really afford it, um, but did your parents 01:16:00talk to you and tell you you know, or, or did you just -- did y'all just look at the situation and just know, like, "There's no point in asking." It's just -- Or --GREEN: Yeah, well, I think we all just --
HENDERSON: -- it doesn't even become a thought --
GREEN: -- knew --
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: Um, my parents never did say, um, "I want you to go to college," um, or --
HENDERSON: Right.
GREEN: -- you know, "I can't afford it." We just didn't.
HENDERSON: Right.
GREEN: And it was something that, um, I guess you didn't expect to, you know --
I didn't. I didn't expect -- And I imagine if I had pursued it and found out maybe I could've --HENDERSON: Right.
GREEN: -- but I guess there just wasn't, maybe wasn't implanted
in me.HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: You know, it wasn't drilled into me that, "When you finish high school,
you gonna go to college," you know.HENDERSON: Right.
GREEN: Not like we do today.
HENDERSON: Right.
GREEN: You know. They just -- I don't remember anyone talking about it --
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
01:17:00GREEN: -- truly.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
HENDERSON: Um kay. And that's -- It's helpful that you say that, because I'm so
used to that, you know, I guess with my generation and that, I'm just so used to that being part of the discussion, that you --GREEN: Yeah. Yeah.
HENDERSON: -- graduate high school and then you automatically -- Like whether or
not someone's gonna go to college, college is discussed, and so it's really about whether you're gonna go or not.GREEN: Yeah. Yeah.
HENDERSON: Um --
GREEN: And now it's just one of those things that --
HENDERSON: Um --
GREEN: -- you know, you talk about it.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
GREEN: No one talked about it when you got home --
HENDERSON: Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Hmm -- Um kay. And are there other -- Do you think
that there are other reasons besides financial that no one would talk about it? Or, or is it really just it really just wasn't on anybody's mind? 01:18:00GREEN: Uh, well, I think it's, you know, honestly, I think maybe it was the
environment that we were in, and a lot of people didn't --HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: Um (unintelligible) -- You got out of high school and you were gonna get
a job and, and go on. You know?HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: Um, very few people that I know of had gone to college --
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- in that area.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: Now there might have been some people who did; I just didn't know them.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: Know what I mean?
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: Like in, you know, in the building I lived in, I don't remember anybody
that I know of --HENDERSON: Right.
GREEN: -- went to college.
HENDERSON: Right. All right. Hmm -- Hmm -- Okay. That's helpful. That's helpful.
01:19:00I very much appreciate your, um, talking to me this evening.GREEN: Oh (unintelligible) --
HENDERSON: -- (unintelligible) -- Yeah! It was pretty -- I think it was maybe
painless or, you know, nothing to be anxious about. I'm --GREEN: No, um, uh, I was okay with it. I, of course --
HENDERSON: Oh --
GREEN: -- you know, some, it was [stickier?] for a while when I think back --
HENDERSON: Uh huh.
GREEN: -- and I think the hurt --
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- comes out.
HENDERSON: Uh huh.
GREEN: (Unintelligible) heard about, but, you know -- I've got so
(unintelligible) --HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: Um (unintelligible) --
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: -- (unintelligible) --
HENDERSON: I think that that is, while doing this I think that that that is
something that, the different hurt that people have experienced. The -- You 01:20:00know, just the different hurt and I guess how it's, how it's connected. Like, I'm, I feel like I'm, I hear kind of one person in the family is hurt by this person and so then that person will hurt somebody else or -- And, and like none of it's necessarily intentional, but it's just, um just a lot of, a lot of hurt, and then people just kind of go on and do the best that they can with it.GREEN: Yeah, Mm hmm.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm.
GREEN: Um, um --
HENDERSON: But I think it's just kind of amazing (laugh) just, you know --
HENDERSON: (Unintelligible) --
GREEN: -- to survive.
HENDERSON: Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Yeah, but I'm going to, um, let you go so that you
can rest. I know it's late, and so I appreciate your, um, being willing to, to 01:21:00talk to me this late.GREEN: I sitting right here --
HENDERSON: (laughter) -- Okay.
GREEN: -- (unintelligible) --
HENDERSON: (laugh) But I will, um --
GREEN: -- (unintelligible) --
HENDERSON: -- I will give you a, a call soon and --
GREEN: Okay. No problem.
HENDERSON: -- so, yeah, so we can set up another time.
GREEN: Okay, hon.
HENDERSON: Okay. I'll talk to you --
GREEN: You take care.
HENDERSON: Okay. All right. Bye-bye.
GREEN: Bye-bye.