Robert Gregory Interview

TRACI DRUMMOND: This is Traci Drummond, Archivist for the Archives of the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers at Georgia State University Library. I'm here today with Robert Gregory, known as Bob, from Local Lodge 946 in Rancho Cordova, California. We're going to be talking to him today about his time with the Machinists. Today is December 4th, 2011. We are at the Winpisinger Center for Education and Technology, in Hollywood, Maryland. And welcome, Bob. Thank you for talking to us today.

ROBERT GREGORY: Thank you.

DRUMMOND: I'm going to start with a little bit of background info from you. Can you tell us about -- a little bit about your parents and grandparents, and where they were from, and the kind of work that they did?

GREGORY: Well, my father was from Colorado. Moved to California early in his life. And my mother was from California. And were basically natives of California.

DRUMMOND: OK.

GREGORY: And my grandfather on one side of the family is from Georgia, and my grandfather on the other side was from Colorado.

DRUMMOND: OK. So what brought them -- do you know what brought your families to California?

GREGORY: Mainly work.

DRUMMOND: OK. Do you know what kind of work they did?

GREGORY: Yes. My father had several, several jobs. He was a cook in a Chinese restaurant, and he did odd jobs around. And then when we ended up in Burbank, California, he was a janitorial serviceman. He took care of schools as a janitor.

DRUMMOND: OK. And your mom? Did she work outside the house?

GREGORY: No, she was a homemaker.

DRUMMOND: OK. How many brothers and sisters do you have?

GREGORY: I have -- I had three brothers. One has passed away. And I've got one sister.

DRUMMOND: OK. And is the family still in and around California?

GREGORY: Those of us that are left -- one brother is in Colorado, and one brother is in Florida, and I'm still in California. My sister is in Pennsylvania.

DRUMMOND: OK. Are you the only family member that ever joined a union?

GREGORY: Yes.

DRUMMOND: You are?

GREGORY: Yes.

DRUMMOND: OK. All right. And -- so then let's go back to your story. You were born in California?

GREGORY: Fresno, California.

DRUMMOND: Fresno, California. And you went to -- you had a regular education in public schools coming up?

GREGORY: Yes. When I -- I started school, public school, in Burbank, California, and went through all 12 grades there, and two years at a junior college called 00:03:00Glendale Junior College. And then when I moved up to the Sacramento area, I went to two years at American River College in Sacramento.

DRUMMOND: And what were you studying?

GREGORY: At first, I was studying for law enforcement. Then accounting and general education.

DRUMMOND: OK. And when did you decide to go to work? I mean, were you going to school and working consecutively, or were you trying to finish your education before you got a job, or --

GREGORY: While I was in the Burbank area, I was working at a grocery store in Burbank, and I also was mowing lawns and doing little things like that to get spending money.

DRUMMOND: OK. OK, so this is when you were still in high school?

GREGORY: Right after I got out.

DRUMMOND: Right after.

GREGORY: While I was in high school, I was working at the grocery store, and right after that. Yeah.

DRUMMOND: OK, and then went to get some schooling for law enforcement, and decided against that or --

GREGORY: Yes.

DRUMMOND: Yeah?

GREGORY: Wasn't for me.

DRUMMOND: OK, all right. And then you said you moved and you went to River College.

GREGORY: After -- after living in Burbank, after I got married --

DRUMMOND: OK.

GREGORY: -- I moved up to the Sacramento area, in a place called Folsom, California.

DRUMMOND: OK, Folsom, California. OK. So when did you -- when did you join the union?

GREGORY: In 1957, April.

DRUMMOND: OK. And you were working for Aerojet?

GREGORY: I was working for Aerojet, yes.

DRUMMOND: OK. And you said that they had recognized the union.

GREGORY: Yeah, Aerojet recognized the union. I believe it was '54 or '52, somewhere in that area.

DRUMMOND: OK.

GREGORY: They were an offsite of the big plant down in southern California.

DRUMMOND: OK. There was a bigger Aerojet?

GREGORY: At that time, yes. Then the Sacramento facility became the biggest Aerojet.

DRUMMOND: OK, OK.

GREGORY: Most of the work moved up there, Sacramento.

DRUMMOND: OK, and you were already married by this time?

GREGORY: Yes.

DRUMMOND: What year did you get married?

GREGORY: 1954.

DRUMMOND: OK, OK. And so you moved up and you started working for Aerojet, and what was the first job you had there?

GREGORY: I was an experimental metal smith.

DRUMMOND: Experimental metal smith. Can you describe that a little?

GREGORY: That's where we were making parts for missiles.

DRUMMOND: OK.

GREGORY: And it -- the high tolerance, where you had to make sheet metal parts very close tolerance [for it].

DRUMMOND: OK, and what does close tolerance mean, for the layman?

GREGORY: Working within thousandths, two or three thousandths. The parts had to be made within that close.

DRUMMOND: OK, OK. And was that the work you did the entire time you were at Aerojet?

GREGORY: No. I worked at Aerojet as an experimental metal smith. I got laid off as an experimental metal smith. Bumped down to fitter. What they call fitter, which -- metal fitter -- which was a lower type of work than metal -- experimental metal smith. And then when I came back from serving as a Grand Lodge rep, we had a layoff in the Grand Lodge position, and I came back in the plant as an experimental metal -- experimental inspector. And from then, I got re-elected as business agent, and then I got recalled back as a Grand Lodge rep.

DRUMMOND: OK, OK. So you started there in April of '57. What was your first -- well, what was the feeling there about the union? How did the union, the Machinists there, get along with management? What was the relationship like?

GREGORY: I'd say it was a fair relationship. We had our problems. You know, like any shop does. But overall, I think that they worked pretty well together. You know, there were some strikes, but they did work good together.

DRUMMOND: OK. And when did you start becoming active with -- did you sign a card right away? Did you join right away upon starting your job there?

GREGORY: Yes.

DRUMMOND: OK. And was the entire plant unionized?

GREGORY: Yes.

DRUMMOND: OK, so everyone. Were the machinists the only union in the plant, or did they have other folks there?

GREGORY: For several years, it was, and then the operating engineers took the welders out of our union and put them in their union. They were a very small group, though.

DRUMMOND: OK. Was that a contentious kind of thing?

GREGORY: Yes, at first.

DRUMMOND: It was -- at first it was?

GREGORY: At first it was.

DRUMMOND: OK. So when did you -- so you signed a card right away. When did you first get involved, and why was it important? Why did you feel it was important for you to get involved and be involved?

GREGORY: Well, my first experience with the union was prior to working at Aerojet.

DRUMMOND: OK.

GREGORY: I was working in a small company in Burbank, California, making missile assemblies. One day, on my way out of the plant, there was two people hand-billing the plant, so I stopped and took one of their handbills. And after reading it, I kind of got interested in the thought of what they were trying to 00:09:00do, because we weren't making the money like the people working at Lockheed and Douglas and those companies.

DRUMMOND: Do you remember what the handbill said?

GREGORY: Basically, it was a normal handbill. You know, "Are you tired of dis-fair treatment? Are you tired of the low wages and health benefits?" and so forth. So -- and I was tired of that. I just had gotten married and wanted more money.

DRUMMOND: Yeah, yeah.

GREGORY: But the two gentlemen that were at the gate were two retired Grand Lodge reps. Chuck Jones and Hal Sheehan. They were very helpful in explaining what the union was all about. We had an election and we lost.

DRUMMOND: OK. Why do you think you lost? Did they just not reach enough people, 00:10:00or was there maybe a culture of fear at that plant?

GREGORY: There was definitely fear. I became an in-plant organizer. It was hard to get people to even listen to you because of the fear. We didn't lose by much. I believe it was like 30 votes is all we missed out on. But yeah, it was fear.

DRUMMOND: And were you ever personally -- were there ever any threats, or were people just afraid of losing their jobs? Were you all threatened overall with just losing your jobs?

GREGORY: I never was threatened, but I --

DRUMMOND: Even though you were an in-house organizer?

GREGORY: Yeah. I was kind of the quiet inside organizer. I didn't step up on a bench and holler and yell or anything like that. I just spoke to individuals at 00:11:00individual times.

DRUMMOND: OK. And you said Chuck Jones and Hal Sheehan. It sounds like they really influenced you. Could you talk a little bit more about your relationship with them?

GREGORY: It was a short relationship. I think we went to Lexington within 40 days or something like that after the cards were signed. But particularly Chuck Jones, he was very skillful in getting his point across. I didn't think anything about it. It was interesting, but I knew we weren't going to be union, so it kind of went to the back of my things to do.

DRUMMOND: OK.

GREGORY: Then I got laid off right after that.

DRUMMOND: OK. You think that was a coincidence? [laughs]

GREGORY: It could have been, you know, the reason why, because they found out I was an insider.

DRUMMOND: Yeah, yeah. But then you moved up to Rancho Cordova.

GREGORY: Yeah.

DRUMMOND: And started work with Aerojet, and within a year, you had a position there within the union.

GREGORY: Yes. I became the zone steward, and at that time, a zone steward and represented 50 people within our area. It may have been several different classifications, but you...

DRUMMOND: Well, and how many people did you all have in the plant at that time? I mean, how -- I mean, you said everybody was a Machinist then. But how many employees were at the plant at that time?

GREGORY: At that time, I think there was around 7,500.

DRUMMOND: Seventy-five hundred. So that would have been a lot of zone stewards.

GREGORY: A lot of zone stewards.

DRUMMOND: And were they assigned by shift as well?

GREGORY: Yes.

DRUMMOND: OK.

GREGORY: And we had all three shifts working, and many, many classifications. Probably 200 classifications.

DRUMMOND: OK. So what were some of the ones you remember?

GREGORY: Rocket test technician. Sheet metal workers. Fitters. Welders. We had 00:13:00the welders in our unit at that time. Janitors. Cafeteria helpers. Rocket test technicians. Maintenance mechanics. Carpenters. All the crafts in there. And uh, several others. I just can't remember them all.

DRUMMOND: Yeah, yeah. And it sounds like you all were making -- from what you said, that it was essentially things for the U.S. government.

GREGORY: Correct.

DRUMMOND: Contract to the U.S. government. And so what was sort of the ultimate end use for some of the products you all were making?

GREGORY: Well, they were making like the Minuteman, the Atlas. Several small missiles. Launchers for destroying tanks and boats and whatever. And we had 00:14:00satellite missions, where we worked on [tight lifts] and those type of missiles to take people -- those type of engines to take people to outer space.

DRUMMOND: OK. And can you talk a little bit about the sort of morale in the plant at that point, and the sort of mood among the workers? You know, because that was a big period of growth for America, and a very important time in our history in terms of economic strength and influence in the world. So can you talk a little bit about the morale and how people there felt to be doing this kind of work?

GREGORY: They were very proud of it, particularly when we'd have a launch and it was successful. It really brought a lot of pride. And, of course, at that time, the problems with Russia. You know, we were making weapons to help keep them in line. It was pretty good -- we had a good relationship. We had a good 00:15:00relationship with the company. But uh --

DRUMMOND: And in Rancho Cordova, when you went home, did you live in a community or neighborhood with a lot of other union members? Did you -- how was the union seen by the community as a whole where you were at that time?

GREGORY: They were -- a lot of people -- I lived in a little town called -- a little -- not town, really. A little community called Orangevale. And several of my neighbors worked at Aerojet. The whole Rancho Cordova area was packed with Aerojet employees. Folsom, California had a lot of them. Yeah, it was kind of a tight community.

DRUMMOND: OK.

GREGORY: Aerojet did a lot of things for the community. Of course, we were part of that doing, so it was important to all the people.

DRUMMOND: OK. So, as zone steward, you said you represented about 50 people. And what were the kind of things you would represent? Like what did that work entail?

GREGORY: Like mis-assignment of work. A foreman giving a job to a welder that should have been given to a metal smith or a fitter. And uh, we had some terminations. Not many, because Aerojet was having a hard time keeping employees -- getting enough employees at that time.

DRUMMOND: Where were they -- were there just not enough people there at that point?

GREGORY: Not enough people with skills to come in and do the work. We had termination cases. We had overtime -- lots of overtime cases. There was a mis-assignment of work on overtime, or not letting the person on the -- low person on the overtime list be asked first to work overtime. But basically, those were the main things.

DRUMMOND: OK. And you would take those to a senior steward, who would then represent them, or would you represent them directly to management?

GREGORY: As a zone steward, I would represent the employee with the immediate foreman involved. And then if it wasn't settled there, it would go to the senior steward, who met with the foreman's boss. And if it wasn't settled there, it went to the chief steward, who met with the labor relations people. If it wasn't resolved there, it would go to arbitration, which was done by the business agent of the local.

DRUMMOND: OK, OK. And were you pretty successful working with the direct -- the foreman for the stuff, or was there a lot of stuff that ended up going higher, or...

GREGORY: A lot of stuff went higher, because the foreman, even though he was supposed to have the authority to settle, I'm sure he got directions from up above not to settle it. So it was kind of just an informational part of the grievance procedure to get information out so they could move up the ladder.

DRUMMOND: OK. And then you became a senior steward. And how did your work change then?

GREGORY: Well, then I had zone stewards under me, and I --

DRUMMOND: And how many zone stewards did you have under you? All of them?

GREGORY: On the swing shift, I had probably 10 to 15 at a time -- zone stewards under me. That includes not only the department I came out of, I was working in, the whole plant on swing shift. I had most of the stewards on swing shift. Half of it. They had two plants at Aerojet. One was called the Liquid Rocket Company, and one was called the Solid Rocket Company. So I represented the liquid side.

DRUMMOND: OK. And then you moved on to the negotiations committee.

GREGORY: Right.

DRUMMOND: Were you -- I've talked to union members before, and they say, "Nobody else would do it, and somebody had to step up." So is that a position that maybe was elected within the union?

GREGORY: Yes.

DRUMMOND: Did somebody elect you? So people were really confident in your --

GREGORY: On the --

DRUMMOND: -- in your abilities at that -- after you had represented them as a zone and senior steward.

GREGORY: Yeah, the -- in our local, there was a lot of competition for negotiating committee.

DRUMMOND: OK.

GREGORY: I mean, it wasn't a give-me type of job. You had to really campaign for it and get elected.

DRUMMOND: Wow.

GREGORY: So I won that.

DRUMMOND: Do you remember anything about your campaign? Anything that made you stick out? Did you have a...

GREGORY: Well, we had what we called tickets. We had the green slate, the blue 00:20:00slate, and yellow slate, I think. And we would get to -- our slate would cover everything from the president of the local down to the zone steward.

DRUMMOND: Oh, so when elections came around --

GREGORY: I'm sorry, not zone steward. Down to the senior steward.

DRUMMOND: So when elections came around, they could -- the membership of Local Lodge 946 could vote a straight ticket. And then you had, like, groups of people -- am I understanding this correctly?

GREGORY: Yeah.

DRUMMOND: OK.

GREGORY: But you could vote -- you didn't have to vote a straight ticket. You could vote a blue ticket member and a green slate. I was on the green slate. We won almost all the positions every election, every three years. There would be a few orange slaters get in, but not very many.

DRUMMOND: OK, OK. And how long were you on the negotiation -- how many people were on the negotiations committee?

GREGORY: At that time -- probably 10 negotiators, plus a business agent and 00:21:00chief steward from both plants. So two chief stewards and a business agent.

DRUMMOND: OK. And how long did you serve on that committee?

GREGORY: I served on --

DRUMMOND: Because you said elections were every three years.

GREGORY: Yeah. As a grievance committeeman, I served two terms. Six years.

DRUMMOND: OK. And what were some of the big cases? Like what were some of the big issues that would come up at Aerojet then? What were some of the --

GREGORY: Wages, of course. Benefits. And overtime principles. How overtime was to be assigned and who got the work. Jurisdictions between classifications. An employer was always wanting to combine classifications, so if one person did two 00:22:00different trades, or a combination of -- but those were basically the big things. The wages and benefits was probably the prime. Because when people hired in, they had skills of a certain level. That was -- the company couldn't hardly move them out of there.

DRUMMOND: Right. Well, and what were some particular challenges to being on the negotiations committee? Was it -- were you -- did you find that, despite the fact that labor management relations were often pretty good, as these types of things go, did they haul in -- were they a little more stern during this period? I mean --

GREGORY: Very strange -- not strange. Strong. Under-the-table threats. What I would call --

DRUMMOND: Interesting.

GREGORY: They would say, well, if we can't settle this issue, then we'll have to do this or do that. So that was -- during that period of time, whenever 00:23:00their negotiations came up, things really got tight. There was a lot of bad words passed across the table.

DRUMMOND: Right. And were you all sort of looking at other, I guess, companies who did the same kind of -- or similar work? I mean, were you all in contact with those folks to sort of see what they were asking for?

GREGORY: Oh, yeah. We had an International union. We had an aerospace conference right before the aerospace negotiations started, and they were pretty well linked together over several months. And we'd meet and exchange ideas, and we'd set goals at that meeting. It was usually three to five-day conference.

DRUMMOND: Wow.

GREGORY: And we would -- we'd go into depth on what we were seeking and what, 00:24:00as aerospace group, what we wanted at every location.

DRUMMOND: OK. And who were some of the other companies?

GREGORY: Lockheed.

DRUMMOND: OK. And were all these in California, or were all these out West?

GREGORY: They were out West. There was Lockheed in Burbank. McDonnell Douglas in Long Beach. Rohr Industries in San Diego. Of course, Aerojet. Boeing Company up in Seattle, Washington. Almost all the aerospace companies had representatives, union-wise, at the conference.

DRUMMOND: OK. Um, and then after two terms on the negotiation committee, you moved to the grievance committee.

GREGORY: Right. As a grievance committeeman, I would research -- when grievances came up from a senior steward, it was my job to prepare the chief steward, 00:25:00because he handled all the grievances at the third-step level, and my job was to get the information, facts, and so forth, and present it to the chief steward, who would then go to labor relations at the third step and present the case for the union.

DRUMMOND: And what were some of the types of grievances that would make it up that far?

GREGORY: Terminations. Job assignments. Overtime. Sometimes a few discriminations. At that time, very few -- at that time -- discrimination grievances.

DRUMMOND: So you had an ethnically-mixed --

GREGORY: Yes.

DRUMMOND: -- group. Did you have -- so you had Caucasian. Did you have African-American and Latin-American?

GREGORY: Yes.

DRUMMOND: OK. And maybe even Asian American?

GREGORY: A few, yes. Very few Asians at that time.

DRUMMOND: OK. So did it seem -- so did the discrimination suit seem to be more heavily weighed against one particular group or another?

GREGORY: Against the blacks.

DRUMMOND: Really? Did you all have a lot of women in the plant?

GREGORY: Very few.

DRUMMOND: Very few.

GREGORY: Boy, I would be saying pretty high -- 50 would be high. I would say --

DRUMMOND: OK.

GREGORY: -- out of 7,500.

DRUMMOND: So a really small percentage.

GREGORY: Yeah, very small.

DRUMMOND: OK. And the discrimination grievances, were they particular to the work that was being done, or were they just a boss didn't like a particular person, or didn't want to have to work with a particular person?

GREGORY: Well, I think, basically, it was over job assignments.

DRUMMOND: Oh, that they weren't getting --

GREGORY: They weren't getting promotions. They weren't getting promoted. That type of thing.

DRUMMOND: In the long run, did you -- were you there long enough to sort of see that even out or be less of an issue over time?

GREGORY: Yeah. The contracts have been changed enough that overtime shouldn't 00:27:00be a major problem like it used to be. I'm sure they still have problems with the assignment, but --

DRUMMOND: But I meant in terms of like the racial discrimination. Were you there long enough that attitudes changed and management's attitude toward diff --

GREGORY: Yeah. I mean, I'm sure that some of those managers left, you know, that were anti, but you never could prove it. I mean, you couldn't get into their mind.

DRUMMOND: Right, right.

GREGORY: Find out what they were really thinking.

DRUMMOND: Right. OK. And so grievance committee -- and you told me a little story earlier about, at one point, you all had 5,000 -- is it 5,000? -- grievances.

GREGORY: Yes. We had what we called Kegel Arbitration. Kegel was an arbitrator out of San Francisco, and the parties used him quite often in their arbitration cases. We had so many grievances -- there were 7,500 people -- that there was no 00:28:00way either party could sit down and arbitrate every one of those cases. And these are cases at the arbitration level. So the parties, which I was not part of, but they met and they agreed to what they called mass arbitration. And each party would take a grievance, and they would, on a one-letter type summary of that grievance, they'd put their facts and their reasons for the grievance, and then that was sent to the arbitrator, and then the arbitrator [and] his office made a ruling on those grievances.

DRUMMOND: OK.

GREGORY: Not a good process.

DRUMMOND: Not a good -- no, not a good process. And -- was there a lot of sort of -- how did that affect -- did that have any effect on how the membership saw 00:29:00elected officers? Did they maybe think that they weren't making the right decisions or taking the right steps to protect them in a way?

GREGORY: I'm sure it was, because there was cases in there that had they been arbitrated, in my opinion, individual, the union would have had a winner. But somebody sitting in San Francisco, reading two pieces of paper, they come up with a decision, which was, all the facts weren't able to be presented, and that affected many of the employees and the union in a negative way. And, out of that 5,000 grievances, probably 1,500 of them were withdrawn before they went to the arbitration procedure. But -- by either side. But there were several grievances, in my opinion, had we gone to normal arbitration, we would have been winners. But that was the process at that time, and that's what happened.

DRUMMOND: OK. I had a question. Give me a second. How far -- OK, my question is this. So you all were sending all this information to San Francisco. And how far, for those of us that don't know, is Rancho Cordova from San Francisco?

GREGORY: About 100 miles.

DRUMMOND: And it's 100 miles south of San Francisco?

GREGORY: West.

DRUMMOND: West of San Francisco.

GREGORY: Strictly west. Rancho Cordova is 100 miles east of San Francisco.

DRUMMOND: OK. And you all just didn't have any arbitration lawyers or -- like, locally, or folks willing to take on your --

GREGORY: We had a Grand Lodge rep named Jim Todhunter, who -- I was one of the persons writing those one-page summaries, and Jim Todhunter was a very 00:31:00knowledgeable Grand Lodge rep. Very intelligent man. And uh, he would help, but he -- you know, he was kind of bound by what the contract said, or what we thought it said.

DRUMMOND: OK, OK, OK. And so you did that. You were with Aerojet General Corporation from '57, but in the early '70s, you became the directing business rep.

GREGORY: Correct.

DRUMMOND: Right. And so how did that change -- did that change how you worked directly with your local, or was that a more regional or national position?

GREGORY: No, it was just the Local Lodge.

DRUMMOND: Oh, OK, so you were still with the local at that point.

GREGORY: Right.

DRUMMOND: OK, OK. And was that another elected position?

GREGORY: Yes. It was three years.

DRUMMOND: OK, OK. And what did you -- what did that -- what were your duties in that position?

GREGORY: Handling arbitration cases. Negotiations. Chief negotiator for the union. Political activities. State and U.S.A. type thing. National. Community things, like United Crusade and that type of thing. Working with those folks. It was basically all around rep, and I was the only one.

DRUMMOND: OK. And you had folks working under you, though?

GREGORY: Yes.

DRUMMOND: So there was delegation. So you were really supervising people who carried it all -- carried out this wide variety of tasks?

GREGORY: Correct.

DRUMMOND: And that was just for your local?

GREGORY: Right.

DRUMMOND: And were there other business reps in your area? Did you ever -- was there any collaboration between --

GREGORY: There was a little between us and a local downtown, which represented most of the automotive employees. And uh, they were in a big district, District 00:33:00190, out of Oakland, San Francisco area. But we had -- we were kind of different in our work. Even though we had mechanics under our contract in the plant, they did mostly auto shops and that type of stuff. We had very little --

DRUMMOND: OK.

GREGORY: But on big issues, like affecting the Western Territory or the International union, we would work together on any of those programs that they might have.

DRUMMOND: OK. At that point, you've been active with the union really 15, 16, 17 years, and you must have had a reputation. Do you -- looking back, do you -- can you speak to what your reputation -- or what you like to think it perhaps --

GREGORY: Well, I --

DRUMMOND: But if you kept being elected, I mean, certainly people had confidence in you.

GREGORY: Yeah. I always told people when I was running for election that I'd do the best job that I could. They supported that. Even when I got laid off from the International union -- when I first went on the International staff and I got laid off, I came back and they reelected me business agent again. They knew that I could get recalled back to the International, but they still reelected me. So I think that my showing at the local level showed them, you know, I was doing the job they wanted done.

DRUMMOND: OK. So directing business rep in '72. So in '75, that would have wrapped up. And then you became a Special Grand Lodge Rep.

GREGORY: Yeah. I became a Grand Lodge rep in -- I spent three terms as a directing business agent.

DRUMMOND: Oh, OK. So that wasn't just --

GREGORY: Two terms before I got put on staff, and then one -- almost one term --

DRUMMOND: So that would have taken you into the early '80s with that.

GREGORY: Yeah. '82, I believe, was when I became a Grand Lodge Rep.

DRUMMOND: OK. And that was your first time working for the International.

GREGORY: Correct.

DRUMMOND: And what was -- and it says special grand lodge rep, so were you given a special task, or were you assigned a special duty, or --

GREGORY: We were assigned whatever the Vice President wanted us assigned to.

DRUMMOND: OK. And who was the Vice President you worked for?

GREGORY: Justin Ostro.

DRUMMOND: OK. And what was that like, coming on the International staff? What was that like for you?

GREGORY: It was very exciting for me. I had several good friends that were Grand Lodge Reps that I've met over my years as a representative in the plant. And, you know, I was really pleased that President Winpisinger and Justin Ostro 00:36:00selected me to be a special rep. Special Rep is like a rep on probation, really. You're there for a year as a special rep, and then you become a Grand Lodge Rep.

DRUMMOND: OK. And what were some of the things that you did? And this was for the Western region [Territory]?

GREGORY: Yes.

DRUMMOND: OK. So -- and the western region covered?

GREGORY: California, Washington, Utah, Hawaii, Alaska, Arizona, New Mexico.

DRUMMOND: Nevada, maybe?

GREGORY: No. (inaudible) -- no. Just from about New Mexico over to the Pacific Coast.

DRUMMOND: OK. OK. Wow, that's a big area. So -- and you were helping Justin Ostro.

GREGORY: Right.

DRUMMOND: And what were some of the things you were responsible for doing?

GREGORY: Well, I did negotiations. I was in negotiations with several companies. And some arbitrations where the business agent wasn't up to par on presenting the case. I'd help them. Basically whatever came up. I was assigned some political assignments sometimes, working on campaigns for candidates.

DRUMMOND: So this was the first time you really traveled a lot, then --

GREGORY: Yes.

DRUMMOND: -- for the Machinists. And how -- because we haven't really talked about -- because I'm sure that, you know, through -- you know, as stewards and on the negotiations committee and on the grievance committee -- you know, most people know that if you're in a union and you have that level of responsibility, that you -- that it's really all you do. And how did that affect your family during all of that time? Because I -- because however -- because whatever that was like, I'm sure that once you became the Special 00:38:00Grand Lodge Rep, that that must have -- even if they supported you, that must have --

GREGORY: It was tough.

DRUMMOND: Yeah.

GREGORY: It was tough. I had two young boys and a daughter. And -- you know, I wasn't at home. I was traveling. I had -- after I became a full Grand Lodge Rep, I had Montana assignment, representing in the whole state of Montana. And I had Arizona, the whole state of Arizona at another time. So you're, you know, gone from home for at least two weeks, and then home for the weekend, and then back down again. So it was -- my wife raised the kids for several years by herself, and that made it tough. Although my boys, both boys, they were on the picket line with us when we were at Aerojet, and they do -- in fact, a little 00:39:00story. I came home from this picket line one day, when I was business agent, and they're out front with signs saying "Raise our allowance." So --

DRUMMOND: [laughs] So they were on strike.

GREGORY: They were on strike. Of course, they won.

DRUMMOND: Right, right. Did they bring good negotiations and bargaining skills to the table?

GREGORY: Yep.

DRUMMOND: Did they make a good case?

GREGORY: Yep. They talked about mowing the lawn and that type of thing.

DRUMMOND: OK, OK. And that's something -- I'm sorry -- we forgot during your time at Aerojet. Let's back up a little. Sorry for the change in direction, but y'all had some pretty significant strikes while you were working there. And these were things that maybe would have happened -- yeah, it looks like they all happened after you'd become, you know, different -- you were officer, but at different levels. So in 1962, there was a strike.

GREGORY: Right.

DRUMMOND: Does anything stand out about that one that you can talk about?

GREGORY: That one, the company had several big issues. As I recall, overtime, how to assign overtime, job combinations, and wages. And we were very successful in that negotiation with -- the union I think pretty well dominated those negotiations. Then in '65, because of --

DRUMMOND: And how long was that strike?

GREGORY: That was, like, maybe two weeks, and it was over. And then in 1965 -- I was on the negotiating committee at that time, and we had a strike. That one...That one was -- I believe was our six-month strike, where we were on strike for six months with no scabs. And then we had one in '71 or '72, 00:41:00right in there. Nothing in '70 -- '68. '68 was a good year. Nobody wins in a strike.

DRUMMOND: No.

GREGORY: Even though both sides claim victory.

DRUMMOND: Right. Well, fair enough. But being out of work for six months, did you have enough of a strike fund in place that you were able to -- that the local was able to help take care of families?

GREGORY: The local didn't have a strike fund. We relied on the international strike fund, which I think was $25 a week. But yeah, we got -- we went begging for food and jobs and that type of thing. I think we did a very well job, a very well -- good job in getting goods in and stuff, and helping our members. Evidently because nobody crossed the picket line.

DRUMMOND: There were no scabs.

GREGORY: Right.

DRUMMOND: Excellent. And for a group of -- well, by the '60s, had the numbers of employees there started to dwindle?

GREGORY: Yes, dramatically.

DRUMMOND: OK. So when you started there in '57, you said there were, like, 7,500 employees. So moving forward to, like, mid-60s and into the early '70s, how had numbers changed?

GREGORY: I'd say, in '65, there was probably down to 1,500. It dropped dramatically.

DRUMMOND: And what was the cause for that?

GREGORY: Lack of contracts for aerospace industries. And they're down, now at the local, to about 700. But that's not all Aerojet now. They've organized other shops around the area.

DRUMMOND: OK, OK. So it was -- were there other companies coming and taking all the work, or was it just that there wasn't as much of a demand for your product at that point?

GREGORY: Both, both. Aerojet lost some contracts, like to McDonnell Douglas and Lockheed and (inaudible). And then, of course, the economy was falling apart at that time, too, so.

DRUMMOND: OK. Yeah, heading into the early '70s.

GREGORY: Right.

DRUMMOND: Yeah, OK, OK. How did that affect the community? Did the member -- because you said it was a pretty tight-knit community and there was a lot of respect for the union there. So as union members started -- or as, I guess, Aerojet started to have fewer jobs to give people, were union member -- were the former members going to other plants to work, or were they just left jobless? Did you all have to find another way to stimulate your local economy?

GREGORY: Yeah, locally -- we're the state capitol in Sacramento, California. Some people went to work for the state. And not only was bargaining people being laid off; so were salary and office and technical people. They were being laid 00:44:00off. A lot of the people went to work for the state agencies and so forth. A lot of our people left and went to, like, Lockheed or McDonnell Douglas or --

DRUMMOND: Which were also in the area?

GREGORY: No.

DRUMMOND: Not in the immediate area, but in the state?

GREGORY: Yeah. We're ranked about 400 miles from Sacramento, and McDonnell Douglas is about 450 miles. They were close down there. And some of our folks even went as far as San Diego to go to work. It was a tough time. Housing market -- you could buy a home half the price of what it was a month before.

DRUMMOND: Right.

GREGORY: Because -- but I did see maybe one or two foreclosures. Most of the people were able to sell their homes.

DRUMMOND: OK. Was there some other sort of industry coming in, then, that were bringing people there for a different reason?

GREGORY: Campbell's Soup was expanding, and they hired some of our mechanics and machinists. That helped a little bit, but nothing really big came in. Mather was an Air Force base, and they had a civilian group there. Some of our people went to work for them. McClellan, which is right there, too, was an Air Force base, and a lot of our folks went to work for them. So, if you had a skill, you were in good shape. You could move into one of those positions.

DRUMMOND: OK, OK. So then, moving forward -- back forward to your work as Special Grand Lodge Rep. And it took you all over the Western Territory, and… How did this -- because taking on the responsibility, being part of the 00:46:00International, working at that level, how did that -- what was that like for you at the time? Like, what...

GREGORY: It was an interesting experience.

DRUMMOND: And were you appointed or elected?

GREGORY: Appointed.

DRUMMOND: Appointed. By Winpisinger?

GREGORY: Yeah. I don't really know how that process works up there, but I think Justin recommends -- Ostro -- recommended me to Winpisinger, but Winpisinger had the final say. He --

DRUMMOND: And because you were in his territory, he knew who you were and he knew all the work you had done over the years?

GREGORY: Right.

DRUMMOND: OK. And so what was that like for you, coming on and...

GREGORY: It was very interesting. I was, you know, what you call gung-ho. I just wanted to do the best job I could. It was a good job. Good job.

DRUMMOND: OK. It sounds like that got you ready to be the Western General [Grand] Lodge Representative, which came -- if you became Special Grand Lodge 00:47:00rep in '82, did you take over for Justin Ostro?

GREGORY: No.

DRUMMOND: Did he move up? How did that work?

GREGORY: Justin Ostro stayed on as International Vice President until he retired. And then Lee -- General Vice President Lee Pearson took over. But you're appointed, you're at the will of the General Vice President.

DRUMMOND: OK. And as general lodge rep...

GREGORY: Grand Lodge Rep.

DRUMMOND: Grand -- I'm sorry. Grand Lodge Rep. Did your duties change after your -- Because if you started as the Special Grand Lodge Rep, did anything change?

GREGORY: You got a little bit harder assignments, like being the overall coordinator for the Lockheed negotiations. And --

DRUMMOND: And so, for people who might not know all the details for that, what is involved coordinating something that large?

GREGORY: You take, like, the Lockheed Company. They had plants in Marietta, 00:48:00Georgia. They had plants in Texas. And a small place up in Oregon. And so when you coordinate, you coordinate the negotiations with all those locations. Interesting. I mean, you would get different type of people who think differently at each location. They have different ideas about what a Grand Lodge Rep should be doing and not doing. So it was interesting.

DRUMMOND: OK. And your final position, then, with the Machinists, at the International level, was Administrative Assistant to General Vice President Lee Pearson, and you were appointed that in '92. But you had mentioned earlier -- let me ask about this. I just thought about this. You mentioned at one point you were laid off from the International?

GREGORY: Yes --

DRUMMOND: When did that happen?

GREGORY: Let's see. Probably 1987.

DRUMMOND: OK. OK. So it looks like your time as Special Grand Lodge Rep was interrupted? Or Grand Lodge Rep was --

GREGORY: Grand Lodge Rep.

DRUMMOND: OK. And --

GREGORY: It may have been even earlier than that, a year earlier than that. But they had a big cutback in the International union, so that's when I -- I had rights back to Aerojet. And when I went back to Aerojet, I went back in the plant, and that's when I went back as an experimental inspector. And then --

DRUMMOND: But you were welcomed back -- I mean --

GREGORY: Yeah.

DRUMMOND: And during that time period before, I guess, you were -- you came on 00:50:00as Grand Lodge Rep, did you -- because you were working in the plant again. Did you run for Local Lodge offices again?

GREGORY: I ran for directing business agent and won.

DRUMMOND: OK. And how long did you do that?

GREGORY: About 13 months, I believe, and then I got recalled to the --

DRUMMOND: International.

GREGORY: -- International. Then I retired from Aerojet after that.

DRUMMOND: OK, OK. And so -- and then that's when you became Administrative Assistant?

GREGORY: Well, no, I came back as Grand Lodge Rep.

DRUMMOND: Grand Lodge Rep, OK.

GREGORY: For several years, and then when Justin Ostro retired, I became Administrative Assistant when Lee Pearson went up to vice president. Lee was the administrative assistant.

DRUMMOND: Prior to --

GREGORY: Prior to.

DRUMMOND: OK. And so since you had worked with Justin Ostro before you knew Lee Pearson, and how he worked and --

GREGORY: Well, I knew Lee Pearson because we were business -- he was a business 00:51:00agent in San Diego, and I was a business agent up in --

DRUMMOND: OK, so you had a long relationship with him. OK.

GREGORY: Yeah, we knew each other. We worked together as Grand Lodge Reps, too.

DRUMMOND: What was that like, coming to work for someone you'd known and respected?

GREGORY: No problem.

DRUMMOND: No problem.

GREGORY: No problem at all.

DRUMMOND: And how was -- and what was that work like compared to being a Grand Lodge Rep?

GREGORY: Here again, I was the overall coordinator for Lockheed and Boeing, which took away from doing the administrative work of the Western Territory. But paid me to work -- I had more responsibilities, of course, and I did job assignments as -- I assigned Grand Lodge Reps to different areas of their expertise or whatever, you know. That took a lot of time to make sure who you could depend on to get an investigation completed on somebody who was making a 00:52:00protest against their business agent or the chief steward or someone. So I'd have to assign someone to go in and investigate that and get their report back and be sent off.

DRUMMOND: OK. And you retired in '96 from the International. So you retired from Aerojet earlier on, and then you retired from the International in '96. Looking back over that long career, what are some of the things you found most satisfying about being in the union and about representing union members?

GREGORY: I think the most satisfying thing, which is an ongoing thing right now, is that, back in 1972, I started a retirees club called New Horizons Retirees.

DRUMMOND: OK. Specifically for Local Lodge 946?

GREGORY: Correct. While I was gone, of course, they had their meetings, and I 00:53:00helped whenever I could as a Grand Lodge Rep. And then it's still going today. We've got a good club. We're still trying to do the things as a club should do. I am now president of that retirees club. I didn't ever think I -- back in '72, when I started it -- I'd end up as president of it. It's a rewarding job. It's something you're always thinking about. Working with -- try to help those who can't help themselves sometimes.

DRUMMOND: And the retirees, how many members do you have?

GREGORY: Well, right now, we've got 106 members. Plus their spouses. Or friends. And we just had a big Christmas luncheon last week.

DRUMMOND: So you have regular activities throughout the year?

GREGORY: Oh, yeah. We have a potluck every -- well, we have potlucks about seven 00:54:00months of the year. We have a free spaghetti feed. We have a free corn beef and cabbage feed. We have the free Christmas lunch. And the rest are basically potluck and -- we have an average of 70, 75 people per month coming to the meetings. At the meetings, we try to -- as you probably know, some retirees don't agree with a Democratic president, but we try to work into that, work around that, to get them to respect the views of those who are working for the working people. And sometimes it's a challenge, but...

DRUMMOND: That's interesting that politics are still such a big part of -- well, how -- well, in California, how were -- when you were working in the plant, how were the pol -- did you have a more conservative makeup?

GREGORY: No. Back in the old days of the plant, we were -- they were strong -- at least the Democrats spoke up, and almost -- basically, we won every election, statewide, that we supported. Then it started getting more conservative, more conservative. Today, I would say that plant probably is very conservative. I don't know whether that's because we're not teaching them the right things, or somebody else is getting more propaganda into them.

DRUMMOND: Right, OK.

GREGORY: But that was -- that's probably a very successful part of my career, is getting that club going.

DRUMMOND: Of the -- you said there were still about 700 folks who were organized and working at the -- at Local Lodge 94 -- or members of Local Lodge 946. What are the interactions like between current members and the retirees? Is there -- 00:56:00do they kind of do their own thing, and you all do your own thing? Or do you all have opportunities where you can all come together? Sort of what is the environment with that, and how do they -- you know, for folks who are retired and who were members of the local, when it was much stronger and much bigger, do you think that there are learning -- are you all taking advantage of teaching opportunities, or are they taking advantage of learning opportunities, working or talking to or building a relationship with retirees?

GREGORY: I would say that it's not a very close relationship. Although I'm very active. I attend all the union meetings that I can, and I report back to the club what's going on in the local. And it's -- in fact, I'm a volunteer for what they call a holding corporation. It's called the 946 00:57:00Holding Corporation, who owns the building that the local meets in and has their offices in, and I'm president of that organization. I'm responsible for renting the hall out, making sure the repairs are done, and all that kind of stuff. It's a volunteer job. There's no pay or anything like that. That helps me with being involved with the local people, like the president of the lodge. We work closely together. The chief steward. We work pretty close together. The business agent and I work real close together. That group of people are real supportive of the retirees club.

DRUMMOND: Oh, good. OK.

GREGORY: When I ask the business agent to come speak at a meeting, if he's not in arbitration or something, he's there, and the same thing with the president of the local. We work pretty good together.

DRUMMOND: Do you feel like attitudes among younger folks in the union -- my observation has been -- and I've only been labor archivist for about four-and-a-half years now -- is that I'll meet older folks or retirees who have great stories to tell, and then I meet younger folks who've never really gone through a serious strike, who have never gone through serious negotiations, and who are really benefiting from all the works that previous generations have done. But they've never really had to fight for it, and they can't conceive that things will be taken away if they don't stay strong and stay focused and organized. Do you sort of see some of that being --

GREGORY: Definitely.

DRUMMOND: Like, some of the apathy just comes from them never having to do the work?

GREGORY: They believe now -- and the past negotiation just recently at Aerojet -- that this is mine. I deserve this. They don't recall us striking for six months to keep their pension plan and that type of thing. Employers are taking 00:59:00advantage of this nowadays. You take, like, Aerojet. They took away the employees' pension plan.

DRUMMOND: They took the entire plan away?

GREGORY: Plan away. No more -- I mean, they've got to pay what they owe. If you had 15 years of seniority and you were going to retire, you get 15 now. If you had 15 years and you're going to retire in two years from now, you'll still only get 15 years benefit. You don't get the two years you stayed after the negotiations. So I think that's kind of waking some of the people up, because they feel that, hey, why didn't we fight? The committee recommended the strike. They recommended turning the contract down and strike, and they were run over.

DRUMMOND: Really?

GREGORY: And -- yeah. You talk to some of those young people who are not a steward or on the entertainment committee or something like that. They don't know what's going on. They just want that daily, hourly pay so at the end of 01:00:00the week, they can grab their paycheck and run with it. And they don't volunteer to help or -- I used to have -- all I'd have to do is call the chief steward in the plant and say, hey, I've got this problem; I need 10 people. There would be 10 people at my desk that evening.

DRUMMOND: Wow.

GREGORY: So I didn't -- you know. I mean, we were very close. And when we were getting ready for the big strike, we would have -- once a month, we'd have a free spaghetti feed. The bar took care of the costs of the food and everything, and we'd have a band. One of our members was -- had a Western band, and his band volunteered once a month to come play music for dancing. And we'd call it "Let's Get Together." That was the theme all through the strike and everything, was Let's Get Together, and we had very successful negotiations. But --

DRUMMOND: And do you think the community was just tighter-knit then, too?

GREGORY: It could have been, although there's a lot of conservative people in that Sacramento area. And it hasn't changed any since those days. But I think some of them felt, you know, they should support us. But the majority of them, they, you know -- unions -- thugs. You know, that type of thing. It was -- it's an interesting career there.

DRUMMOND: Given all the people you worked with, starting with Chuck Jones and going all the way through Justin Ostro and Lee Pearson, did you ever consider -- or have any role models?

GREGORY: Winpisinger.

DRUMMOND: Winpisinger. Yeah.

GREGORY: Yeah, I --

DRUMMOND: I think --

GREGORY: I know a lot of people who disagreed with him on some of his ideas and so forth. I can remember taking heat over the racecar. I don't know if you 01:02:00know about that.

DRUMMOND: I know all about the racecar. We have that -- we have a model of that racecar on display at the Archives right now, so.

GREGORY: That was a -- you know, wasting union money on that kind of stuff.

DRUMMOND: But wasn't the whole idea to attract a younger group of folks?

GREGORY: Right. And we couldn't buy a baseball team or football team or anything like that. When you sit down with the younger ones and talk to them about it, they came over to your side. I thought Wimpy was, you know -- had ideas that nobody in Congress or any of those areas could even start to match his own philosophy. I remember I got to go to Canada, because when Wimpy was getting ready to retire, the Russians sent delegates to his retirement, and that's why we had it up in -- I think it was Quebec at that time -- and I got to go up there, and they just were -- raved about the guy. Well, of course, 01:03:00people said, well, he's a Commie, but they have to. But, no, I think Wimpy, and then after Wimp-, President Kourpias was a very good president. He was very helpful. Very humane. The type of guy that he would sit and listen to your problem. I don't care whether you're a janitor on the floor or a Grand Lodge Rep. He'd sit and listen to your problems and try to help whichever way he could. Kourpias was good at that.

DRUMMOND: OK, OK.

GREGORY: Of course, Justin Ostro was -- he was a good leader, too.

DRUMMOND: He was?

GREGORY: Disagreed with him sometimes, heavily, but we never really had any battles or anything. I just simply disagreed with his ideas, but he was a good leader.

DRUMMOND: What have you found most satisfying about being in the union? What is 01:04:00the thing -- you talked a little bit about your -- the retirees group. But just in general, maybe more general, what has it meant for you and your family? Because, you know, you raised two sons and a daughter, and I suspect you have grandkids, and coming from a family, working-class folks, how was your life different from your parents because you were in the union?

GREGORY: Well, my life was different because I got an education. The feeling of helping people -- I guess I learned that at a young age. But I enjoyed, you know, taking an arbitration case and winning for somebody. I enjoyed negotiating a good contract. And all those things add up to the difference between my folks -- I can remember us -- my mother sending me down to a little grocery store in 01:05:00Burbank to get a bone for the dog. She'd take that bone and make soup instead of giving it to the dog.

DRUMMOND: Right, right.

GREGORY: And I can remember those things back then. To be able to put -- have two kids graduate from college and, you know, helping them, and then of course helping union members, it's been a life that I've really enjoyed.

DRUMMOND: Yeah. I think unions, especially maybe -- I think unions really put an emphasis on helping other people and being able, you know -- this is -- the union helps you get a certain -- achieve a certain quality of life.

GREGORY: Correct.

DRUMMOND: And then with that, the most important thing you can do is give to other people.

GREGORY: Right. And, you know, like I tell everybody -- Kourp used to say it all 01:06:00the time -- you can retire from your job, but you never retire from the union. And that always sticks in your mind, you know. That's what I'm trying to do today as a retiree, is do things for the people. You know, even the working people, if they ask for help. That's one thing I don't do, is interfere with the Local Lodge politics or other -- if they come to me, I'll give them advice and so forth, but I let them come to me, because I don't want them to think that an old-timer is trying to run their local.

DRUMMOND: Right. Do you ever think you could do it better than what [they do]?

GREGORY: Yeah. [both laugh heartily]

DRUMMOND: All -- all the time! Most of the time. Well, are there any other experiences that you had as a Machinist, as a union member, that you would like to share?

GREGORY: I think it was -- like, when I was in Arizona as a Grand Lodge Rep, I 01:07:00represented the miners. Coalminers. That was an experience, because they're a group of people, who are so tightly together, because their lives depend on every day.

DRUMMOND: Right, right. Did you ever go down in the mines with them?

GREGORY: Once. Never again.

DRUMMOND: Once was enough. Once was enough.

GREGORY: Yes. In fact -- I can't remember the fellow's name, but -- and most of them are Hispanics over there that are in the mine, and they took me down. I don't know, I was down about 800 feet or something like that. You've got the little hat on with the little light. All the sudden, their lights disappeared, and I'm right there in the dark with my little light, and they're right around the corner. They had it all planned. But after that, they just came out and said that's what happens sometimes when you're in the mine. Just to prove a point that, don't just think that we're telling you this. Experience 01:08:00it yourself. That was a good experience on how to put your foot into their footsteps and see what turned them on, turned them off.

DRUMMOND: Which sort of -- yeah, and sort of helped, I guess, inform your negotiations, or your helping them with that kind of stuff.

GREGORY: Yep. I had some good experiences over there, because, for some reason, I don't know what it is, but leadership of the mines on the company side don't respect our members. Now, they'll disagree and argue about that, but I can remember going into arbitration -- I mean, into a grievance committee meeting with -- and the foreman there, he started down talking to these people on the committee. Rightfully, they weren't the most educated guys, but they were doing the job, and they were worth the pay they were making. I just couldn't take that anymore, so I jumped in the middle of them and told them 01:09:00there's no way we're going to sit at this table and listen to this crap. And I went and met with his boss, and his boss came in and sat down at the table and said -- I think there was, like, five grievances that we were discussing. And he said, "What's your position on this one, and why?" And I told him. And he was the only guy that I ever met with over there that was right foot forward, and he granted three grievances right there in front of the guys without any more say so. Two of them, he said, "I can't do anything on these." Luckily, those were the two I was going to withdraw anyway. So we came to an equal mind there. But that was an experience to see how these guys had been going through this harassment type of thing. And after that -- I left right after that, not too long. Maybe a month or so. But I talked to the guys and they said things have really changed since that meeting. If I went over there, I could have gotten elected president of their local in a second, you know, but -- 01:10:00it was a good experience.

DRUMMOND: OK. All right. Anything else?

GREGORY: Can't think of anything.

DRUMMOND: OK. Well, thank you so much for talking to us. This interview will be added to the research collections at Georgia State University Library. And thank you for your time today.

GREGORY: I appreciate it. Thank you.

DRUMMOND: OK, this is Traci here with Bob Gregory. We have one more thing to add. You were telling me that there's a Sacramento Classic Car Show. Is that an annual event?

GREGORY: Yes. We had our 12th show this year.

DRUMMOND: OK. And it is coordinated by?

GREGORY: Myself.

DRUMMOND: By you.

GREGORY: I coordinate all the -- you get letters out to sponsors and to get the DJ and the food and all that, and get the cars registered and so forth.

DRUMMOND: About how many cars do you all get?

GREGORY: We've averaged, I'd say, just at 100.

DRUMMOND: OK. And --

GREGORY: Except for the first year, which I wasn't in charge of that year. We had 200, almost 300 cars that first year, but we were giving good prize money.

DRUMMOND: OK, OK.

GREGORY: It brought them in.

DRUMMOND: OK. So what's the range of cars? Do you have -- what's the oldest car you all -- do you all have any Model Ts show up, or --

GREGORY: Yeah. We've had one of those. I'd say, right now, we're probably getting, in the last few years, '29 is about the oldest, and most of them are in the early '30s, and then up. And we have cars all the way up to present, so we get some nice Cadillacs, you know, and so on.

DRUMMOND: OK. And of course, the most important thing here is that the money that you raise, I guess, through registrations and --

GREGORY: Registration and sponsors. We've got -- like Aerojet sponsors us, and 01:12:00several companies, and individuals. We've got a couple of good individuals that sponsor us. We brought in, like, this year, $15,300, which went to the Guide Dogs of America out there. Annual.

DRUMMOND: OK. And every year, the money goes to Guide Dogs of America?

GREGORY: Yes.

DRUMMOND: OK. How long have you all been doing this?

GREGORY: For 12 years.

DRUMMOND: Twelve years now. OK. And is this -- are these all Machinists' cars or --

GREGORY: No. This is open to the public.

DRUMMOND: But the Machinists' sort of org -- you work with --

GREGORY: Yeah, we organize it. We --

DRUMMOND: With the local or with the retirees?

GREGORY: Well, the retirees is a sponsor, but I basically --

DRUMMOND: You do it.

GREGORY: I do it.

DRUMMOND: And -- OK.

GREGORY: And the local helps out the day -- basically the day of the event, and some other little items. Once in a while, we get -- we go to all the other car shows in the area and handbill the cars, because you've got to keep your mind on bringing their car to our show. If you talk to any of the people who come to 01:13:00our show, almost everyone says it's the best show in town.

DRUMMOND: Nice.

GREGORY: I don't know why we don't get more than 100 cars, but --

DRUMMOND: How many folks come?

GREGORY: Well, actual people --

DRUMMOND: Yeah.

GREGORY: We probably have 150 there.

DRUMMOND: A hundred and fifty thousand?

GREGORY: A hundred and fifty people.

DRUMMOND: Total?

GREGORY: Total. That's cars and the driver and their spouse or a friend.

DRUMMOND: No, no, I mean how many people come to see the cars? Do you all have --

GREGORY: Oh, how -- not very many, because -- I don't know what it is. I think they think that they're going to have to donate, but we put on free admission and everything. But I think they figure they're going to have to donate something. But we have a silent auction, which we get some good prizes in, and we have just a regular raffles, and then we have a hamburger, hotdog, chips, a drink -- reasonable price, five bucks for a lunch. But, we would like to get 01:14:00more people in. We've tried a couple things to try to get people in with their kids. You know, like with a bounce machine, but --

DRUMMOND: No?

GREGORY: No. They're -- and car -- I don't know if you know car people. They're very particular. They don't want any Coke or water or anything around their cars. They don't want kids even around them within a block. When you figure you've got $50,000 tied up in a old vehicle, you don't want anybody scratching it.

DRUMMOND: I can -- as an archivist, I can appreciate that they don't want smudgy hands, Cheeto hands, on their interiors.

GREGORY: Yeah. Snow cone leaning over.

DRUMMOND: Yeah. [laughs] Ice cream cones.

GREGORY: Yeah! [laughs]

DRUMMOND: All right, OK. Well, anything else?

GREGORY: No, can't think of anything right now.

DRUMMOND: OK, excellent.