Claude Helton Interview 2

GEORGE STONEY: Tell us about the mills and the churches.

CLAUDE HELTON: I always figured there was a closeness with the companies because they were always willing to help on different projects like that. So there was a closeness and then one of our overseers, his daughter married to Mr. Groves - married his son, so that made it close as ever.

GEORGE STONEY: Tell me again about the $50,000.

HELTON: Well, that was it. The building committee, I believe [Jay Webb?] was one - on that, and they went to him and they - wanted to know if they were willing to help on it, and that - Earl Groves said yes, he would help and he would give $50,000 to build. And so that was -- (laughter) --that was our help.

GEORGE STONEY: That's a lot of money.

HELTON: So actually, I believe it was on the front of the education building there's some mention of that.

GEORGE STONEY: Now, back to the time of the strike. It was so large it was all over the country. Were you aware at the time that this was happening all over the place?

HELTON: No, I wasn't. Not as much as I learned it was. Seems like I was mostly concerned about Gaston county all right. I bet if you said that it was really a hot bed in Belmont, but I didn't know that.

GEORGE STONEY: Now, what had you known about unions before that, before '34?

HELTON: I didn't know anything about - I never been acquainted with anybody who had been, you know, a member of a union. If I did hear some telling about what happened when they - years before that - what happened when the union came in.

GEORGE STONEY: What did they say?

HELTON: They didn't speak well about unions at all. Now I don't know whether some of our people were involved in it or - part of - they were not the ones who was telling me about it involved with it. They just had a bad taste at that time and said it will cause trouble, people will fight and they get into all kinds of trouble. It didn't look too good for it.

GEORGE STONEY: But you still had the courage to go ahead and be involved. Why did you do that?

HELTON: I suppose as I look over it, the idea of people being - having a job and 00:04:00of course as Thomas says, I believe that and Six Hour Red talking about that people needed work and shortened the hours and things like that. I suppose that's - I've never been involved in it too much.

GEORGE STONEY: Had you heard about what happened over in Gastonia in 1929?

HELTON: Yeah, I'd heard. But - I don't know. I guess I wasn't impressed too much on that because as I understood it, the communist party involved -

JUDITH HELFAND: One second.

GEORGE STONEY: Just a minute.

HELFAND: Can you start with, "I wasn't impressed"?

GEORGE STONEY: Just say you weren't impressed and then tell me the rest of the story.

HELTON: That was - the communist party was involved and of course I read accounts (inaudible). It was some of the leaders that (inaudible). So that part, I mean, I didn't want any part of, that part. But I read about the textile, the heads of it -- they seemed to be good Americans. There was no communist involvement at all as far as -

GEORGE STONEY: Well, the leaders who came to - there were a number of leaders who came to speak. Did you ever go and -

HELTON: No, I never went to it. That's why - it shows you I wasn't too interested.

GEORGE STONEY: Do you remember a fellow named Gorman?

HELTON: Yeah, I remember Gorman, reading about him, but I never met him.

GEORGE STONEY: What about, uh, Alton Lawrence?

HELTON: Let's see - (inaudible) it seemed like Lawrence was - I believe he was in North Carolina. Now, right now it just don't come to me, see. I don't know whether he was involved with the union or if it was a state (inaudible) he was a part of. That's not clear enough there.

GEORGE STONEY: He was, uh, he was secretary of the AFL for the state and a Paul Christopher from Shelby was the young man who was head of the textile workers for the state, from Shelby.

HELTON: I knew - it seemed like it was something. I think he was involved in the - I remember the name. Now, Christopher - I don't -

GEORGE STONEY: Don't remember?

HELTON: I don't remember him.

HELFAND: George, I wonder if he recalls the people in this community ever being able - getting together to speak for themselves or if it seems like that's a big deal.

GEORGE STONEY: OK. Now, Judy was wondering if the people in this community when they got together, uh, did they ever get together and say we want changes in the factory or we want changes - anything like that?

HELTON: Not to my knowledge.

HELFAND: But that was - that's what the local was. I'm just saying it must have been a startling thing for all these people to come together.

HELTON: I didn't get that.

GEORGE STONEY: She was saying that the fact that these - all these local people got together must have been a surprising thing.

HELTON: I suppose that it was to the mill companies. But I -

GEORGE STONEY: Now one of things that we see - you see, I've gone through the Charlotte Observer of the time and this thing built up and built up and built up, and, uh, the union said it was going to strike and the manufactures said, oh, you're not going to strike. You're - the Southern workers will never do it. And they were just startled when people did come out. Were you surprised 00:09:00when they came out?

HELTON: I have to say that I was - that that many people would... But I suppose, though, that many of them did - felt like I did on some of the things especially that eight hours - I mean six hours - shifts and all that. I suppose the men felt like I did. That would be good.

GEORGE STONEY: Were there many women in the union?

HELTON: Yeah, we had - I suppose about as many -- many women as we did men, something like that.

GEORGE STONEY: I'm going to have to ask you that again because of the car. Were there any women in the union?

HELTON: As far as I can remember it seems like there were a good many women that belonged to it.

GEORGE STONEY: That must have been an unusual thing for women to step out like that?

HELTON: Yes, (inaudible). I suppose, too, that the fact that that some of the people who - I guess you'd say older members of the union, maybe talked to them and persuade them to go the union way in their thinking. I suppose that as 00:11:00far as I know, there's no - no woman's ever spoke, at least to our group or (inaudible) speak for the union. I mean, an organizer or...

HELFAND: Did he - does he remember signing up with cards and collecting dues.

GEORGE STONEY: Do you remember - did you have people sign up and pay dues?

HELTON: Yes, I'm trying to think what the membership was at that time. It was just a small amount and that was supposed to pay dues. Let's see, now, was it weekly or monthly? I - that part now I'm really not too sure about. It was - 00:12:00but there were - there were - each union was assessed so much for each member that they had on their rolls, but that money went to the headquarters. Well, Gorman was on that - and some - I remember some of them went to the American Federation of Labor too, a part of it.

GEORGE STONEY: So you kept books on all this?

HELTON: Well, let me put it like this, there wasn't much to keep a record of since I went on the job after the strike, and there was nobody able to pay dues, and so, what was [crazy?] at that time, I did have to keep a record of the money 00:13:00that, uh -

GEORGE STONEY: Do you have any of these old records?

HELTON: I was thinking last night I had, you know, a book that had the names of the [miller?], but apparently somewhere over the years it's been misplaced. Must have been '30 - it was '33 or -

GEORGE STONEY: Thirty-four.

HELTON: And I guess the fact is there wasn't much hope for a survival of the union. I must have 00:14:00misplaced it somewhere. I can't remember what happened to it.

GEORGE STONEY: Well, when - if you find it, we would love to see it.

HELTON: Yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: It'd be a real historical document.

HELTON: It seemed like I was thinking back then that it wasn't [good?] for the companies or the people that were working them to get a hold of it - I mean the names of the people that were - it could be used against.

HELFAND: George, do you want me to get the document with all the names on it?

GEORGE STONEY: Hm? Yeah, mmhm, yeah.

JAMIE STONEY: (inaudible) Rolling.

GEORGE STONEY: Okay. Do you have any records from the time you were secretary?

HELTON: No, I sure don't. I was just going to tell you there - I became the secretary after the strike, and so -

GEORGE STONEY: After the strike started?

HELTON: Yeah. So I - (inaudible) you won't have any record of me at all. You don't have any part of it (inaudible). I just wonder if you thought about that, but -

GEORGE STONEY: What we have here, uh, from the Gas --

HELFAND: Sorry, let's try it again George.

GEORGE STONEY: What we have here from the Gaston Thread Company, this is a letter written to the NRA, the National Recovery Administration in Washington, November the 10th, 1933. Um, "I'm sending in some names of people in the mill whom you can see have worked," 00:16:00uh, let's see, sorry, let me try that again.

HELFAND: Do you want to read it over once?

GEORGE STONEY: Uh -

HELFAND: Maybe you want to start with who wrote it, George. (inaudible) that, and let him see the document.

GEORGE STONEY: Let's see - we can do that. OK. This is a letter written by MB Thomas of East Gastonia. Do you remember him?

HELTON: Yeah. Yeah, I remember him. At the same time - I'm getting a little confused - but one of the organizers that came was a Thomas, too. I'm trying to - but not an M.B.

GEORGE STONEY: Well, this was an M.B. Thomas from East Gastonia and he's saying that - 00:17:00this was written on November the 10th, 1933.

HELFAND: Should I take that down?

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah, take it down.

JAMIE STONEY: You see it in the shot, so it's alright (inaudible).

GEORGE STONEY: Alright. This is a 1933 - he's writing to the National Recovery Administration and he's saying that these people are being worked not according to the NRA code. "The working people in this mill village and other mill villages," he says, "One fellow says their poor people are having to line up a house with eight in family. Only my wife and one daughter are working. They only get work two or three days a week and they make $2.30 and 00:18:00$4.50 and $3.30. I'm sending you the pay envelope. You can see for yourself how it is that I'm honest and have had to drop all my insurance and I have one in family of school age." This is from Mr. Thomas and he's saying that he's only getting - not getting enough work per day - per week, and that, I guess, is what Six Hour Red was trying to do - to do something about that.

HELTON: Yeah, it could be tied into it.

GEORGE STONEY: But the interesting thing is that here, right here in November the 8th, 1933 it says, "We the undersigned citizens and textile workers of Gastonia and North Carolina, we do say that the textile mills is not complying with the National Recovery Act," and then it's signed by all these people. 00:19:00Look at those names and see if you recognize anybody.

HELTON: I recognize W.W. Clover, and I remember (inaudible) also Charlie [Melton? Matthis?]. I remember L.L. [Huzlin?] (inaudible) and H.L. [Wright?]. I remember him, now and F.R. Robinson.

GEORGE STONEY: F.R. Robinson.

HELTON: Yeah, I don't - don't place him right now.

GEORGE STONEY: Were these all from your mill?

HELTON: The ones I have mentioned there were workers over at Groves Mill. I don't place Robinson right now, but there were some Robinson that worked... Now, Charlie [Matthis?] I remember him. He lived right across the street there and John R. [Moore?]. That was our president -

GEORGE STONEY: Could you say that again?

HELTON: He was our president.

HELFAND: Could you say his name?

HELTON: John R. Moore.

HELFAND: One more time, George, the whole thing.

GEORGE STONEY: Could you just mention John R. Moore and say he was our president?

HELFAND: And tell us about him.

HELTON: Yeah, well, John R. Moore I do recognize his name and he was president of our union at that time?

GEORGE STONEY: Who was he? What else did he do?

HELTON: Um, now the job he had in the plant I don't remember, but I do know as far as his outside life he was I'd say a prominent member of Faith Methodist Church, which is up straight (inaudible) and I'd say well-respected by the people in the community. Now this farmer, I remember him, but he's one that 00:22:00had his furniture put out in the street.

GEORGE STONEY: Uh, could you say that again?

HELTON: This farmer, he's the one who had his household furniture put out in the street and that street's up there on Ozark Avenue. We passed by his - where he lived. Why, I don't know. I don't what the company charged him with.

GEORGE STONEY: Did that happen right after the strike?

HELTON: Yeah, after the strike.

JAMIE STONEY: Do you think they were making an example of him? Do you think they were making an example of the man by moving him out of his house?

HELTON: Yeah, give me that again.

JAMIE STONEY: At the time, at the time, you were out of - you had been laid off, 00:23:00everyone else had been laid off, and they chose to move him out of his house. They didn't move you out, they didn't move the fellow across from you out.

HELTON: No, I really don't know why he'd be selected or what -- I don't have any knowledge of anything he'd be involved in that the union would know about.

GEORGE STONEY: Do you think that we could find a shift - one of those big shift pictures that would show a lot of these people?

HELTON: Now that's a picture that I was telling you that Bill Ward had. I don't - I don't remember of any of them being union members right now.

GEORGE STONEY: But any of these fellows you mentioned?

HELFAND: The farmers, for example, George.

GEORGE STONEY: Are any farmer folks still around?

HELTON: All these are (inaudible) who was a son-in-law of John R. Moore. Now, he had a son, Roy Moore. Now Earl [Mullinax?], now he's dead and I believe that Roy is dead now, too, and Mr. Moore. Now, in Thomas's family he had a son, Charles Thomas, and 00:25:00also a son, Newt Thomas. I remember the two boys there.

JAMIE STONEY: Dad, I'm going to swing around over your shoulder.

GEORGE STONEY: Okay.

HELTON: (inaudible).

GEORGE STONEY: Thomas? So, when we go back to your house maybe you could help us find this Newt? Maybe we could, uh --

HELTON: No, Newt's dead.

GEORGE STONEY: Dead.

HELTON: He's dead now.

GEORGE STONEY: But -

HELTON: Charles.

GEORGE STONEY: But Charles, we may be able to find him, and what about Dora?

HELTON: I don't place her now.

GEORGE STONEY: And Woodrow?

HELTON: No, I don't place Woodrow.

GEORGE STONEY: Well, now look over here. Here's some more people.

HELTON: I don't place any of these.

GEORGE STONEY: [Hofstetter?]?

HELTON: Yeah, uh, I don't remember these at all.

GEORGE STONEY: Morrison?

HELTON: (inaudible), J.L. Jones. I don't place any of these over here now.

GEORGE STONEY: They might have been from a different mill.

HELTON: That could be because -

GEORGE STONEY: See, because all these were in your mill over here, you see? And then maybe - then they went to another mill to get these.

HELTON: Now, I remember some [Willards?] used to live up in what's called an Ozark section but --

HELFAND: One second.

HELTON: -- before - any of these I can't...

JAMIE STONEY: I'm just getting (inaudible) cutaways Judy.

HELFAND: We're going to want him to point out Mr. Moore again.

JAMIE STONEY: I got an extreme close-up on all those names. If he wants to point out Moore again, I can get him. But I just got that whole list of names.

HELTON: Now I remember some [Coles?] but they lived up at Ozark. I'm not positive (inaudible). I remember (inaudible), too, but he's dead. And I remember E.G. Hall who lived up in Ozarks, too.

GEORGE STONEY: Then, we're pretty clear that all these people were from Ozark then?

HELTON: Yeah, the one that (inaudible).

HELFAND: I think it was one local for both mills.

HELTON: Now, Ethel (inaudible), she - come to think about it, she's up at Ozark, too. And she was a sister of (inaudible) whose daughter married Earl Groves. And I know the Ellises lived up there, too, so they must - and [Basils?]. All these names are familiar and it seems the ones I do remember 00:30:00lived up at Ozark. No, that...

GEORGE STONEY: OK, so this was written by - all these people from the two mills. And here you see that attached to it, Wiley Willard's ticket - [Gold?] Thread Company Gastonia, December the 16th, 1933, $2.40. That's what he made, I guess, for the week and so they're trying to get some help.

HELFAND: What does he think about that petition? I mean, it's amazing.

HELTON: Well, now, the Willards, they lived up there, too. So that - I suppose it's possible maybe at that time maybe the mill was having a short time, I know there was periods of that while it three days a week was (inaudible) for 00:31:00some time and then things picked up.

GEORGE STONEY: Now, if we can find a - one of those shift photographs from your mill, bring it over to you, you may be able to recognize some of these people. So that's what we'll try to do. We'll look for that shift picture, bring it over and see if you can point out some of these people.

HELTON: I - as of right now, of course, you may (inaudible) seeing these names it'll come back to me, but as of right now when I look at that picture I don't know - remember any of the names on it. Now somebody had to give it to Bill for some reason to look at. Now Bill Waters the one who's owner of the 00:32:00funeral home. And Bill - Bill's daddy was overseer and Bill worked there at the mill for a while, too, before he pulled out and got into the funeral business.

GEORGE STONEY: Was Bill Ward the fellow we met at the church on Sunday? No.

HELFAND: I wonder if -

HELTON: If you went to a Lutheran church that where we -

GEORGE STONEY: No, we didn't. We went to the Baptist church.

HELTON: You wouldn't fine Bill Ward there. (laughs) He's a Lutheran.

HELFAND: I wonder if you could ask him, Mr. Helton, one more time to respond to the idea that people - that the organizers - that the local people were really local, you know, that they came --

GEORGE STONEY: Okay. Okay, let me try that.

HELFAND: -- from right here. Maybe Jamie wants to get on the other side.

JAMIE STONEY: What I'd like to do is cover Dad's question and swing over and get the answer.

GEORGE STONEY: A lot of people have told us that all this organization happened because there were people from outside - from up North or somewhere, and it 00:33:00seems to me, like here, all the people you're mentioning are people from right around here. Where did they get the idea that all these people came from somewhere else?

HELTON: I don't know. It's sure not through here. In other words, we didn't have any outside agitators.

GEORGE STONEY: You did not have any?

HELTON: No, not to my knowledge. And as far as I know, there's not anything - some of the unions, you know, did. I remember (inaudible) heard of it that was a violation of any law - getting involved in different things. Of course that 00:34:00was against the law - I realized that by me getting in that picket line.

GEORGE STONEY: You mean you think that having a picket line is against the law?

HELTON: Yes, I mean - the fact that I was there trying to prevent the people who wanted to work from entering - I figured that was against the law, but at that time I wasn't looking at it like that.

GEORGE STONEY: What has convinced you of that?

HELTON: Well, the fact that, uh, studying the scriptures a little farther is that anything a person's forced to do - in most cases is not right. If 00:35:00they're forced to do it, and they don't do it on their own accord, then you take with it that person's right. But at the same time I know that when the union got started, that the employers did not observe what was right and so they had to get strong enough - the union had to get strong enough - that they could overpower, I'd guess you'd say, the company that was - which is wrong for the unions to do that - I mean, the way that I see it. And if the unions were 00:36:00not paying people the right amount, if they had an agreement they promised to pay a certain wage and then they didn't do it, short changed them, paid them differently, that would be what the company would be doing wrong.

GEORGE STONEY: Well, that is nature of what these people are complaining about here, you see. They're saying that the company's not living up to the NRA code.

HELFAND: One second, I'm getting some wind. I just want to put something on here.

HELTON: (inaudible) --

(break in video; break in audio)

JAMIE STONEY: Speed.

GEORGE STONEY: Okay. This NRA was an agreement that all the industries signed and it says that they were going to take eight hours, all the factories together, going to work just eight hours. They weren't going to work the machinery more than 80 hours and they're going to have a minimum wage of $12 a 00:37:00week and all of them agreed to that together. There was an extra agreement, called [seven aid?]. It says that the workers had the right to form unions and everybody who signed up with the Blue Eagle - you remember that? Everybody signed up to that. And so these people in this petition are protesting that the manufacturers weren't living up to that agreement and that's what that was about.

HELTON: Well, I was not aware of them signing anything like that, but I really don't see that - to my knowledge of what had taken place, I can't say that - 00:38:00the fact that they tell you can get so much money that the (inaudible) -

GEORGE STONEY: Mmhm.

HELTON: (inaudible)

GEORGE STONEY: I see what you mean. Mmhm.

HELTON: So, I don't mean - I don't know of anything like that where they - I do know they were supposed to pay a certain amount and just work so many hours --

GEORGE STONEY: Mmhm.

HELTON: -- and they would pay time and a half if they went over 40 hours, something like that.

HELFAND: George, could you do the local (inaudible)?

HELTON: As far as I know, these people had no -

JAMIE STONEY: Could we cover it from this angle?

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah.

HELFAND: We want to cover it from that angle.

GEORGE STONEY: Okay. Alright.

JAMIE STONEY: This is all good. This is all his coverage.

GEORGE STONEY: Okay. Um, I'm going to repeat something I said before because he wants to get a view of you from here. Um, a lot of people have told us that the strike was called by outside agitators. Now, you people seem to be all 00:39:00local. Could you talk about that?

HELTON: Yep, that part I'm really not clear on exactly what - I don't remember us taking a - I don't know that I was taking a vote on whether we would strike or not. I don't remember that now, I might have, but I don't remember it and as far as I - I don't know of any outsiders that came in and tried to influence our group anyway to strike or not to strike. So, my personal 00:40:00opinion is that no agitators came in and caused a strike. At least I don't know of any.

HELFAND: And then --

GEORGE STONEY: How did you feel when you went up that hearing?

HELTON: Well, not too - since I'm not familiar with the courts and not arrested many times, it was not a very pleasant experience.

GEORGE STONEY: Did you feel ashamed?

HELTON: No, I didn't feel ashamed, but the fact you know, that I felt like that as far as the NRA code that we had been discriminated against. That part I 00:41:00figured there was no question about that.

HELFAND: Could you say that again?

HELTON: That part would be - we were (inaudible) that part.

GEORGE STONEY: Could you say that again? That I felt - because we got a car passing.

HELTON: Yeah, I lost it.

GEORGE STONEY: You know, about being discriminated against.

HELTON: Now, it slipped my mind what I was -

GEORGE STONEY: How did you feel about being up there? Did you feel ashamed?

HELTON: No, I didn't feel ashamed. I just felt that it was necessary because the company had violated that - the law - that they had discrimination. So I didn't feel ashamed of that.

JAMIE STONEY: Do you think any of the other people felt ashamed or accused - any 00:42:00of the other workers that went there?

HELTON: I really don't know of any that do. That felt like they -

JAMIE STONEY: Some people feel that if they're in a courthouse, they're guilty of something whether they've done something or not, you know? And it's some - I was just wondering -

HELTON: Yeah, that was not a very pleasant feeling, but in this case - and my feelings were that we were not guilty of anything that was being charged under that - under a hearing - you know, what they called it. There was nothing we could be charge for and that we were definitely in the right by - by I guess appealing the decision 00:43:00that the company had made.

GEORGE STONEY: Did you hear any more about that hearing?

HELTON: It was - seemed like some time before every - seems like time went on and on before we learned, you know, the outcome of the hearing. And as far as - I can't remember definitely that we were ever given a message from the ones who were in charge of the hearing that we ever got a clear message from them that the company was found guilty. It seemed like it just kind of… I don't know, faded away or less interested or something. But, I was concerned that they 00:44:00had that board and I believe it seemed like there was two - two hearings that we had on that and why it took so long to get anything done, but that's the way the government, committees and things - do things.

GEORGE STONEY: Well, we've heard from a number of people that the delays and the delays and delays - it was - it caused people to lose heart.

HELTON: Yeah.

HELFAND: Did they ever try to organize again?

HELTON: They were - as far as I know, the company was - they were charged. I don't know of any penalty they paid for doing it or not.

GEORGE STONEY: Now, we're going to look up in the records in Washington to see if we can find any more about that. You've given us some leads, and it's just possible that we may find your name in the records and all of that.

HELTON: Yeah, that - since I wasn't elected until after the strike I knew y'all hadn't seen my name anywhere's.

GEORGE STONEY: That's right.

HELTON: That would be the reason.

HELFAND: Was the strike over when -

GEORGE STONEY: Oh, yes.

HELFAND: - he was elected?

GEORGE STONEY: Oh, yes. No, no. The strike was - he was elected right at the beginning of the strike, but he - the hearings were afterwards.

HELFAND: I understand that. Could we - maybe he could describe the story about how they decided to elect him or something because it's not that clear.

GEORGE STONEY: Yes. Could you -

HELFAND: Let's wait for the wind to die down.

GEORGE STONEY: Could you tell us then again when you became secretary and why you became secretary at that partic--

HELFAND: How it happened.

GEORGE STONEY: -- and how it happened? Were you elected?

HELTON: Yeah, I'm trying to place whether I was elected or selected by the president. I'm really not clear on that now as well, except that I know I was 00:47:00recognized at least by the president and all that. I can't -- I just can't definitely say that I was elected by the union.

HELFAND: One other question. Does he remember how they organized? Was it house to house and could he mention the number of his local? I know he knows it.

GEORGE STONEY: What was your local called? The name of your local and the number?

HELTON: Oh, 1312.

GEORGE STONEY: And how many people were in it?

HELTON: (sighs) As much as I can remember about - like about Twelve hundred names that we had.

GEORGE STONEY: Twelve hundred?

HELTON: Uh-huh. That includes see, the Groves Mill and (inaudible) mill and I believe (inaudible) was probably included in that, but it was several mills that we were drawing from.

GEORGE STONEY: So, 1,200 is a lot of people!

HELTON: Yeah, but I'll be frank with ya'll. Sometimes, I think we had names of people that said they were members of - and our agreement with what the union 00:49:00wanted to do and their names were put [out likely?]. I'd been trying to think, some of that happened or just say, yeah, I will join and they filled out a card and they (inaudible).

GEORGE STONEY: And they didn't pay dues?

HELTON: As far as I know. Didn't pay extra. I think because of financial - not everything, like so many people pledged so much money for all these different causes and a year later you find that they hadn't paid up.

GEORGE STONEY: That even happens in churches, doesn't it?

HELTON: Yeah.

HELFAND: How did so many church - uh, churches - how did so many mills be able to organize like that and can he talk about public and private?

GEORGE STONEY: Um, when you organized all these different mills, you had several mills in your local. How did they come together? Did they have joint meetings? Did they have separate meetings?

HELTON: No, to my knowledge they didn't have separate meetings, they just come from the different mills that they worked in. I remember especially some that lived over - that lived at the Flint village and then came to - this was humorous in a way, one of those fellows was - who was an overseer and the plant 00:51:00he worked in, now how he was able to join without too much of a friction or anything there, they did, but he was - one day we had somebody - we had a guard and you had to be recognized and somebody knocked it - it had a name - it had a girl's name, but he was a man and this fellow when he said he was there said, "Let her in, I'll recognize her," but it was a man. Little things like that would happen.

GEORGE STONEY: Did you ever have to worry about spies?

HELTON: No, we never - I never heard of anybody coming in and reporting back to the mill officials about what was seen or doing.

JAMIE STONEY: There's a truck coming.

HELFAND: (inaudible)

HELTON: I really don't think --

HELFAND: One second.

HELTON: -- that the mill did that.

GEORGE STONEY: Let me ask you that again. Did you have to worry about spies?

HELTON: Not to my knowledge. If we had, the leaders at that time did not warn us or anything like that.

GEORGE STONEY: So your meetings were very public, were they?

HELTON: Yeah, well, not to the general public, but they were open to all the members. All that were members. Like, we did have the person at the door to, before a person could get in, he'd have to be recognized.

GEORGE STONEY: Show his card?

HELTON: Yeah, or well, his name and somebody - he was recognized by somebody (inaudible).

JAMIE STONEY: Did they ever have anybody -- did they ever have anybody come up that wanted to come in and somebody said, no, don't let them in or we don't recognize them?

HELTON: Not to my knowledge. I never had anybody that wanted to come in that didn't -

JAMIE STONEY: Maybe the people knew that wouldn't -

HELTON: We had a nice, what I consider a very nice group of people.

GEORGE STONEY: Where were they meeting?

HELTON: Back over here close to that last mill there. It was a big store building that was owned by 00:54:00[McAlister?], so we met in that.

GEORGE STONEY: So, McAlister let you have the place, did you?

HELTON: Yeah, but now I wasn't in on it. I don't know whether the rent was free or whether we paid now, but I knew that's where we met.

GEORGE STONEY: There was a meeting place over his store?

HELTON: No, the (inaudible) of it was closed. It had been a store there in the past.

GEORGE STONEY: I see. So everybody knew about the meetings?

HELTON: Yeah, mm-hm. And as far as I know, we never had anybody that'd try to come in and take over or accuse us of anything wrong or do anything to try and disrupt the meetings.

GEORGE STONEY: Now, we have some pictures of people in this area who were getting food from the union. Do you remember anything about that?

HELTON: I remember the - that's after the strike, now.

GEORGE STONEY: No, during the strike.

HELTON: We had - we had a few members that were up against it, I'd guess you'd say, and I don't know all - not involved in any way, but they did go over to this committee that was in charge of it and go to Charlotte - I believe they called it the (Central Union building?) over in Charlotte and somewhere I 00:56:00think all unions had to report to that central union and so they went over there. Now who they is, I can't tell you. And to try and get some food and I think there had been some reports that the main office or headquarters wanted to send in food to the needy, but they went over there and weren't able to get any food at all and so they had to use the money that we had in our treasury to buy food and come back and distribute it to some of these families. It wasn't, as I remember, the discussion, that it wasn't just a small number of people that needed help like that. And for the life of me I can't remember 00:57:00who the families were.

GEORGE STONEY: Did you help to distribute the food?

HELTON: No, no I didn't.

GEORGE STONEY: But you paid for it out of the union funds.

HELTON: Yeah, yeah. It didn't come from that [war?] fund. (inaudible)

GEORGE STONEY: So it was home support?

HELTON: That's right. No money came from -

GEORGE STONEY: Well, it's interesting, we've been looking back on these records and sometime before the strike started, the man who was head of the textile workers union said, "We've only got a million dollars. If we're going to have a general strike, we're going to have four or five hundred thousand people out. We don't have enough money to do it." But there were people, particularly from the South, who were very anxious to strike and so they 00:58:00pretty well forced a strike on the union and [Macmahan?], who was head of the union, turned over the strike to Gormon, his vice president, to run it because Gormon evidently believed in it more than he did.

HELTON: Yeah.

JAMIE STONEY: Gotta reload.