Bessie London, Betty Hinson, Claude Ward, Porter McAteer Interview

GEORGE STONEY: Betty! It's all my fault. Sorry we're so late!

BETTY HINSON: That's OK!

GEORGE STONEY: Let me tell you what happened. We found a fella, over in...

HINSON: Gastonia?

GEORGE STONEY: No.

HINSON: Ranlo?

GEORGE STONEY: No. Guess again.

HINSON: King's Mountain?

GEORGE STONEY: No. Where was it?

PORTER MCATEER: Cramerton? Lowell?

GEORGE STONEY: No. Where was it, Jamie?

Hinson: [Smyer?]

GEORGE STONEY: No, guess again.

HINSON: Was it part of Gastonia?

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah.

MCATEER: Cramerton?

GEORGE STONEY: No.

HINSON: Firestone?

GEORGE STONEY: What?

JAMIE: Belmont?

HINSON: No, this is Belmont.

GEORGE STONEY: Where we were, [Judy?]?

JUDITH HELFAND: Grove.

GEORGE STONEY: Grove.

JAMIE STONEY: Oh, Grove! Yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: We found a man in Grove --

HINSON: Uh-huh. At the Grove.

GEORGE STONEY: Who had -- his father was president of the union. He was in the strike. He remembered it crystal clear. He had gone to the funeral. He had gone to the funeral, in Honea Path, South Carolina. We ran the scenes of the funeral at Honea Path, and he was there, and could describe it. And then, the most exciting all, we ran that Labor Day parade thing we have, of Gastonia?

HINSON: Yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: And he saw his father.

MCATEER: In there?

GEORGE STONEY: Up next to the flag.

BESSIE LONDON: What about that!

MCATEER: That's great.

GEORGE STONEY: I was a little suspicious, and then his wife came in. She says, "That's him."

HINSON: How about that.

GEORGE STONEY: So, we've - I'm sorry we're so late.

HINSON: Oh, that's OK! That's OK.

MCATEER: Fifteen minutes? [This is Gastonia?], I'm a quarter (inaudible). (laughter)

GEORGE STONEY: Sorry. So -

HINSON: And this is - this is Mr. Stoney's son Jamie?

GEORGE STONEY: Behind the camera? (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) And this is 00:02:00Judy. You know, you have - you have to realize that we are a bit obsessed.

MCATEER: That's great.

HINSON: And I'm becoming that way, and I can't simmer down!

GEORGE STONEY: Claude!

CLAUDE WARD: How are you, young man?

GEORGE STONEY: How you doing?

WARD: All right.

GEORGE STONEY: Glad to see you. Did you -

HINSON: How was [Gwyneth Rock?]?

JAMIE STONEY: [Judith Rock?]?

HINSON: That's right.

GEORGE STONEY: Did you get too hungry?

WARD: Well, I ate a cookie, [to myself?].

GEORGE STONEY: (laughs) Oh, you ate a cookie!

MCATEER: - live in Gastonia, and I'm a Gastonia [township?] commissioner, but represented by the county.

GEORGE STONEY: One of the things that we're interested in - in the morning paper, you see, [Firestone to Flop?] history, for vitality. It's - it's an interesting idea, of what history is. As though history didn't have a thing to do with what's happening now. As though history is a fixed thing, back then, but it doesn't necessarily affect now. But what we're finding, of 00:03:00course, is that what happened back then is very important in what's happening now.

MCATEER: Oh, yes. A lot of history at Firestone Mill.

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah.

MCATEER: A lot has been written and said about the strike, and... Those things, from way back.

GEORGE STONEY: But one of the things that I'm interested in is how the Japanese - I got to look on this. Because I've been to Japan. And they are very conscious of their own history. Will they be equally interested -

HINSON: In our history?

GEORGE STONEY: - in our history.

MCATEER: Well, we're very pleased if they decide to stay here. And build a new plant.

GEORGE STONEY: I'm sure.

MCATEER: That plant is so inefficient. I worked there several summers, when I was in college. Or, really when I was in high school, and college. I helped send my way through school by working at Firestone, and the [Fabloughton?] and various textile industries. And Gaston County.

GEORGE STONEY: Well, I know it's been out of date for a long time.

MCATEER: That's right.

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah. I mean, just the six floors. They need to air condition, and so forth.

MCATEER: Used to be the biggest textile plant under one roof in entire [Wallace?].

GEORGE STONEY: Yup. What do you think's going to happen to the building?

MCATEER: I don't know. Some people had suggested that the county buy it, and convert it into offices. But that would be too expensive. We couldn't do that.

GEORGE STONEY: I mean -

MCATEER: It would be much cheaper just to build a new building with it.

GEORGE STONEY: Air condition all of that.

MCATEER: Yeah, the latest in air condition, heating, so forth. It would not be practical to do that.

GEORGE STONEY: We were talking with the people at the museum. The Gaston County Museum?

MCATEER: In Dallas?

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah.

MCATEER: Alan Waffle?

GEORGE STONEY: Yes.

MCATEER: Yes, great, super person.

GEORGE STONEY: Yes, wonderful person.

MCATEER: I'm on that Board of Trustees.

GEORGE STONEY: Ah, yes. Well, a guide there, who was showing us around, suggested that maybe they could - they could get hold of that building.

MCATEER: That's great! I'd love them to have it. Then they're going to want the county!(laughter)That'd be great! It's a lot of history there. 00:05:00I'd hate to see it razed.

GEORGE STONEY: But just imagine what it would cost to fix that place --

MCATEER: That's why the Japanese are [giving it up?]. (laughter) I mean, if they can't afford it, who can?

GEORGE STONEY: I must say, that every once in a while, I think a perfect ending for our film is if they blew up that. (laughter)

MCATEER: Say, "Well, this was history." And move onto the future now.

GEORGE STONEY: That's right.

MCATEER: We sure are glad to have all of y'all in Gaston County.

GEORGE STONEY: Thank you.

MCATEER: And I understand you're from Winston Salem originally?

GEORGE STONEY: Originally born and raised in Winston Salem.

MCATEER: So you have a good Winston Salem accent. Judith really doesn't even sound like she's from New York City, really.

GEORGE STONEY: Judy -

MCATEER: She can't say, (in New York accent) "Thirty third street and third avenue," can you?

HELFAND: I could too! (laughter)

GEORGE STONEY: Judy, that's meant to be a compliment.

HELFAND: Thank you.

MCATEER: That's a compliment, that's a compliment. In the old days, when they had the (inaudible) characters on TV, when I was a kid, I used to love those. Those little 30-minute shorts. Because - or sitcoms. Because they talked like that. And they said, (in New York accent) "Thirty third street 00:06:00and third avenue." And all that. It was fun.

HELFAND: Well, I'm actually from Long Island, and we talk completely different. (laughter)

WARD: Long Island?

MCATEER: Long Island.

GEORGE STONEY: By the way, I have some pictures that we took the other day.

HINSON: Oh, well good! And she's got some, for you, of that fateful [aid?] play.

GEORGE STONEY: Oh, good.

F2: Uh-huh, uh-huh.

GEORGE STONEY: Very good.

(door opening)

GEORGE STONEY: I'm going to ask you people to do something for me. We are picking you up. So, if you could get a little closer and we -

MCATEER: I've got to go, anyway. I just came down to greet you, and meet you. I heard so many good things about you.

GEORGE STONEY: Well, we would like to have you inside. The meal is going to be coming up very shortly.

MCATEER: OK. Well, I'll wait a few moments.

(pause)

GEORGE STONEY: No, no. I'll get it.

JAMIE STONEY: Now, now, children.

GEORGE STONEY: OK.

HINSON: Hand me the scissors, Judy. I mean - I want to cut the top off this. OK. Now, what you guys want me to do?

GEORGE STONEY: OK, what are we going to have for lunch?

HINSON: We're going to have chicken cordon bleu.

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah.

HINSON: And I've got it in the oven.

GEORGE STONEY: Yow. Beautiful.

HINSON: [Baked?] potatoes.

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah. Uh-huh.

HINSON: And, I'm going to make a pot of dumplings. Right here, with the broth from the chicken.

GEORGE STONEY: Well, maybe if you could - we could talk as you work. See if we could do that -

HINSON: OK, OK.

GEORGE STONEY: OK. How did you find out about us?

HINSON: A friend of mine. [Clenny?] Mills, sent me the clipping from the 00:08:00newspaper. The Charlotte Observer. And I read it. And I knew he had sent it to me because he wanted me to call you folks. But I said, "I don't know about that." You know. And I called him, and he says, "My God, you have got to call these people!" And, so I said, "Well, I'm going to think about it." So I thought about it for a while. And finally I got up the nerve to call. And I talked with Judith.

GEORGE STONEY: Well, she is an easy person to talk with.

HINSON: Right. And seeing you - your picture, helped, you know. And, um, I didn't - didn't know what to expect, or anything. You know, what you were looking for. Oh, my --

GEORGE STONEY: Oh, here! I'm distracting you from cooking. Well, now, it's interesting that the gentleman outside - who is he, now?

HINSON: Porter McAteer?

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah.

HINSON: Uh-huh.

GEORGE STONEY: Who is he?

HINSON: He teaches at Gaston College, and he's a county commissioner. One of our county commissioners.

GEORGE STONEY: But now -

HINSON: He just has another year to go. He's not going to run again. But, I've known Porter for a long, long time. And he's (beeping sound) - he's helped our office out a lot. That's my timer. On the chicken.

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah, OK.

HINSON: Let's see. Let's see, let's see.

GEORGE STONEY: Looks great. Oh, that looks good.

HINSON: (inaudible) It's done, but I -

GEORGE STONEY: It's done. Sorry, it's done enough. Yes.

HINSON: But I was just browning it a little bit. OK. I [forgot] to clean the table [this morning?].

HELFAND: So Betty, when you found this article, what - you read the article, what'd you think?

HINSON: I didn't know what to think, really. I mean, it's... I knew that you were looking for people that remembered way back. And so I started asking folks - the older people, what they remember. And I found out that there was some that did remember the '30s, you know. So many of them are gone now. You know, they died.

GEORGE STONEY: Well, you have helped us find so many people. And one person helps another person, and that's the thing that's so interesting to me. Is that one person - for example, this morning. I was talking about a desk at, uh - at the motel. And this young woman said, "What are you people doing? I noticed, in the package that came in yesterday morning, it seemed to be something about textiles." And so I told her. And she said, "Well, I grew up in a cotton mill village. My mother worked in the factory." And out it came. The whole - the whole kind of story of it.

HINSON: Uh-huh.

GEORGE STONEY: So I explained to her what we were trying to do. I was saying that we have - we have the history of the textile manufacturers. We have the history of the industry. But there's very little known about the history of the people who actually worked in the factories. So what we're trying to do is to complete that history, by concentrating on what the workers did, and also what they tried to do for themselves.

HINSON: Uh-huh.

GEORGE STONEY: I don't know about you, but I grew up in Western Salem, where we had not a very high opinion of textile workers.

HINSON: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE STONEY: We thought - we thought they were lint heads. And we certainly thought that they weren't capable of speaking for themselves.

HINSON: Uh-huh.

GEORGE STONEY: So that, when I started reading about this big, uh, organization, 00:12:00in 1934, where 4, 500,000 got organized, I thought, "Boy, that's a different story than the one I was reared with."

HINSON: Right.

GEORGE STONEY: So, that's why I got really interested in this thing. Actually, a [first?] -

HINSON: Well, to me, you know, knowing them from a baby on up, they're just the best kind of people, to me.

GEORGE STONEY: Well -

HINSON: They were the first to, um, to tell us about the Bible. You know. And to take us to church. Um, and if we did wrong, they were the first to forgive us, if we did. And we all were - you know, accepted one another like a family. You know.

GEORGE STONEY: Well, we've been - we've been talking with people in the different, uh, villages, and it seems to be very different, one village from another village. Everybody talks about it being like a family. But in some 00:13:00villages, the... The supervisors, the bosses, had a lot more to say about how people got along. And what they did. Than in other places.

HINSON: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE STONEY: I mean, in some places, they wouldn't even let them drink. In other places, they didn't bother.

HINSON: They would drink and fight. (laughter) Yeah. Well, I remember that.

GEORGE STONEY: That's why we're so interested in your experience. In the mill.

HINSON: Well, you know, I didn't work in the actual cotton mill ever. But I worked in a hosiery mill. There's just not a lot of jobs around where, unless you have a college education, you know, to work here, in this small town, and the class that I took at school, actually taught me how to work. In the hosiery mill. Which was a step up, sort of, you know. But then, after working for 00:14:00them, for Belmont Hosiery, Gaston College built, here, in Gaston County, and I wanted to go back to school and get an education. And my job was being phased out, with - because of automation. And so I enrolled in classes. My parents had gotten me a typewriter for high school graduation, and I kept up with my typing. But I took it over, you know, and took a lot of courses out there. And found a job, and now I work for the county. For Gaston County.

GEORGE STONEY: Another -

HINSON: (inaudible) service.

GEORGE STONEY: Another thing that interests me is those short stories you've been showing us. It's interesting, the difference that you get when somebody who's actually lived in the mill village writes about it. When I grew up - when I was at Chapel Hill, for example - I went and took courses in sociology. And at that time, we were reading books written by sociologists about what it 00:15:00was like in the cotton mills.

HINSON: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE STONEY: Very different view from what you're telling us.

HINSON: Yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: Not saying that a lot of the things I say, necessarily, weren't true. But it was incomplete. And so, people like you, who can write about it from your guts -

HINSON: Right.

GEORGE STONEY: - are doing a very real service. And that, you see, is what we're trying to do with this film, too. Is to get people who know about it from their guts, to explain it. Like Claude, for example.

HINSON: Right.

GEORGE STONEY: You know, your uncle.

HINSON: Yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: Before it's too late.

HINSON: Yeah. Because time's running out.

GEORGE STONEY: Time's running out.

HINSON: And the mills are - some of them are closing down. And the homes are being moved from the site where they were located. And the villages, you know. And, while others are being sold, you know. And the mill village that I grew up 00:16:00on, the houses have become rundown, and they don't know what to do with them right at - you know, right at this point. And the mill no longer runs. But, you know, when I was a little girl, I could hear the machinery running in the mill. My grandmother would get out her Billy Sunday book, and read, and I would, um, listen to her read that, before I started school, you know. And we could hear the machinery of the mill. And you can even smell the yarn. I always loved to smell it, you know. And, uh, at night the mill would be all lit up, you know, and I could see the lights from my bedroom window. And I wouldn't have grown up anywhere else, in the world, than the Eagle.

GEORGE STONEY: And we're going to be seeing a lot of those people you grew up with at the reunion.

HINSON: At the reunion, mm-hmm.

GEORGE STONEY: That's great.

HINSON: We started having a reunion about 10 years ago. It started with, uh, a minister who grew up at the Eagle. He invited some of the boys he grew up with to come have dinner with him. Out, somewhere, at a restaurant. Then, their wives wanted to come, the next time. And then their mothers, and fathers, wanted to come. And then we all got started to come, and then we have about 125 to 150 now, that come.

GEORGE STONEY: Great.

HINSON: Once a year.

GEORGE STONEY: Well, the - and, Helms, who wrote that story about us for the Observer, is planning to come over. Has she talked with you yet?

HINSON: Not yet.

GEORGE STONEY: Well, she was hoping to come over on Saturday.

HINSON: Good.

GEORGE STONEY: To write about that, as well.

HINSON: Oh, good.

GEORGE STONEY: And her point - she read that book, Like a Family, that you've seen. And her point was that she was so pleased to see something that's going to emphasize the role the role of women.

HINSON: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE STONEY: Because, she said, most of the time it's only just men.

HINSON: Yeah. Well, you know, we had a - a club, at the Eagle, or the - our mothers did. And our aunts belonged to it. It was the Fateful Aid Club. And they got together and rolled bandages, and did things like that, to help people out, that lived in the village. That, you know, were sick. And they were all, always, having fish fries, and things like that, and selling fish, and cakes, and this, that, and the other, to raise money to buy some of the bandages, and things, you know.

GEORGE STONEY: Well, I'm going to cut this, because I want to eat. (laughter)

HELFAND: But (inaudible), don't you have to make your dumplings, now?

HINSON: I've already made them!

HELFAND: You made them.

HINSON: I don't know how they taste.

JAMIE STONEY: How did you meet with the - turn that off for a second, I want to get this again real clear, about the -

HELFAND: Can we get the story of the article one more time? (inaudible) While she's cooking?

JAMIE STONEY: Excuse me? I'd like to get the whole thing of, when they're talking about the reunion. I didn't get it clear.

GEORGE STONEY: OK.

JAMIE STONEY: I want to get - so, if you just stay right there - come here.

HINSON: Where did you want me to start?

JAMIE STONEY: Right where you - uh, why don't we just put a nice -

GEORGE STONEY: Not that. Do it tighter.

JAMIE STONEY: Hang out.

HINSON: Let me dry my face. Because I perspire so bad.

JAMIE STONEY: No, you don't. You glow.

HINSON: I think it's the medication I'm on, or something -

JAMIE STONEY: The first thing I learned, in the South.

GEORGE STONEY: Horses sweat. Men perspire. Ladies merely glow.

JAMIE STONEY: OK. Uh, why don't you just take it from how you met everybody?

GEORGE STONEY: OK. How did you get involved in this mess that we're doing? This picture?

HINSON: OK. A friend of mine, that I grew up with, is retired. And his parents have died, and he lives alone. And he clips articles that he thinks that I would be interested in, and of course he mails articles to other friends that he thinks, uh, thinks of interest to them. Because you know, he knows all of us, and he knows what we're - what we're into. And, um, he clipped this article from the Charlotte Observer, mailed it to me - to the office where I work. So, I opened it there, and there was your picture, and Judith's picture, and the 00:20:00story. And the 800 number. So, I call Clenny, you know, and I said, "I just read this article you sent me." You know. And I said, "I'm thinking about calling these people, maybe." And he says, "My God, you have got to call these people!" And, I said, "Well, let - let me think about it a little bit, you know." And then I - I thought it over. I didn't know what all it would involve, and everything. But I thought it would just involve, actually, my uncle. You know, inter - you all interviewing my uncle. But anyway, I called, and talked with Judith.

HELFAND: Now, a lot of these people, you'd never really talked about the strike before, right?

HINSON: I never knew about it. And, you know, that - the article is what actually told me about it. The strike of 1934. You guys were hunting somebody who remembered, and so I asked - I called my uncle, and I said, "Do you 00:21:00remember the strike of 1934?" He's, "Oh, yeah!" But I never heard him talk about it before. And, so I - I went ahead and called, and told Judith that my uncle remembered.

HELFAND: Then you went to the [Haradent?]? Can you just tell us a little bit - then you went from one person who -

HINSON: Well, I began to think of the older people, who are still living, that once lived at the Eagle. And Washburn Harden was one. Albert Bill, and his wife, Elizabeth. And Albert remembered, uh - he told me that a boy was killed, during that strike, down at the Majestic. And that Elizabeth told me that she stood in line for food, from the union. And, uh, they liked talking about it. And, uh, let's see, who else did we have? That was - that was the four, wasn't it? I believe.

GEORGE STONEY: But those people have passed us on to other people. So -

HINSON: Good.

GEORGE STONEY: - you got something started, and then we're moving on to other people.

HINSON: Mm-hmm.

JAMIE STONEY: The reunions.

GEORGE STONEY: Now, tell us about next Saturday.

HELFAND: Could she cook a little while she's telling it?

JAMIE STONEY: No, we need this clear.

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah, OK.

HINSON: One of the guys who grew up at the Eagle - he's a minister, now - Reverend Roger [Wince?]. Decided to invite several of his old boyfriends that he grew up with out for dinner, one Saturday night. And then, their wives wanted to come the next year. Because some of them were from the mill village. Or other mill villages. And then, the parents wanted to come. And so, every year it just gets bigger and bigger, and now we have anywhere from 125 to 150.

GEORGE STONEY: And we're -

HINSON: Coming.

GEORGE STONEY: - going to be there on -

HINSON: And we'll be there on August the first. It's always held on August the first. I mean, the first Saturday, I'm sorry. The first Saturday in August.

GEORGE STONEY: And we'll be there to film.

HINSON: Right.

GEORGE STONEY: OK? Thank you. OK?

(break in recording)

GEORGE STONEY: Here. Could you -

MCATEER: It's too hot for a neck tie.

GEORGE STONEY: We'll put you here.

MCATEER: Oh, thank you.

GEORGE STONEY: See, I'm going to be over there, and I'm going to -

F1: You want to sit down?

GEORGE STONEY: Yes. You ought to be sitting. OK? Claude, I'm going to move you up right here.

WARD: All right, son.

GEORGE STONEY: OK.

WARD: Want to move my third leg?

JAMIE STONEY: Yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: Jamie?

JAMIE STONEY: (grunts)

GEORGE STONEY: We're going to put you right here. That'll give you enough room, then, to move around, won't it, Jamie?

JAMIE STONEY: Yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: OK. You want to sit here, then, Claude?

WARD: Who [else?] [sit it down?]?

GEORGE STONEY: That's - that's going to be Betty's place.

WARD: What?

GEORGE STONEY: That'll be Betty's place.

WARD: It'll be Betty's place? OK, yeah, all right.

GEORGE STONEY: Give you the one with the arms.

MCATEER: Yeah. You live (inaudible) - you have lots of adventures each year, don't you?

GEORGE STONEY: (laughs) Yes.

WARD: That's great.

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah. It's interesting that I've travelled a lot. And each time, it's for a reason. Which I like much better than just being a tourist.

MCATEER: Absolutely.

GEORGE STONEY: For example, I think one of the most fascinating times I ever had was in Ireland.

MCARTEER: And then they (inaudible) again in Ireland.

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah, uh-huh.

MCARTEER: It kind of comes out of the name Freeman. Free man.

GEORGE STONEY: Uh-huh.

MCARTEER: I looked all that up. It's interesting. But, when you do what you do, and you travel so much, you get so involved in the local community, learn the local history, and normally a tourist will just go to the beach -

GEORGE STONEY: That's right.

MCARTEER: - or the major hotel. And, you know, that's not any fun. You get out into the countryside, with the folks, is what it's all about.

GEORGE STONEY: It makes such a difference.

MCARTEER: Oh, absolutely. I spent the - 1970 - summer of 1971, at the University of Hawaii. And, uh, I took a sabbatical over there. Three months. They want you to take the summer off, and get away, and be a student. And, so I 00:25:00- they said - I said, where do you want me to go? They said it doesn't matter. They found, like, an NC state, or Charlotte, or something. I said, "Does it matter where I go?" They said, "Not at all." So I came back, about a month later. They said, "Where are you going to go?" I said, "University of Hawaii." (laughter) And I said, "Well, I don't know if you ought to do that." But, so I went over, and I took classes, and I got in with the local folks in the classes. Most of whom were female Japanese Americans. Did not speak Japanese, because they were third and fourth generation Japanese. But I got invited to their homes, and so many things. And I got really involved in the local community.

JAMIE STONEY: She goes one way, I go the other way.

HINSON: That is sourdough bread. Sourdough biscuits.

MCARTEER: Betty, don't fix me any lunch. I already ate.

HINSON: Well, pretend to eat.

MCARTEER: OK.

GEORGE STONEY: Just like you do in the movies.

HINSON: Pretend to eat. Get a plate, Porter.

GEORGE STONEY: Pass them down? OK.

HELFAND: Betty, you made such a fancy meal!

MCARTEER: Here, [Claude?].

WARD: Oh, thank you man.

GEORGE STONEY: Judy shut me up today. I was saying, well, we were planning this, and I was saying, "I don't know that you should see me eating, because there are English royal family. There's an unwritten rule that you never photograph them eating? And she said, "Yes, but you're from Ireland." (laughter)

MCARTEER: I think Betty's outdone herself today.

GEORGE STONEY: She really has. Chicken cordon bleu.

HINSON: Can I just reach over Mr. Stoney. OK.

GEORGE STONEY: Great.

MCATEER: This is southern lunch.

HINSON: Chicken cordon bleu.

STONEY: My cousin, John Edgerton. A writer. He wrote that big book called Southern Food, that you may have seen. And I learned a lot about food from him.

MCATEER: I'm probably going to eat lunch again. (laughter)

JAMIE STONEY: I thought a southern lunch was Planter's peanuts and an RC cola?

MCATEER: That's right. And you take the Coke with the peanuts, and you pour them down into the drink. And it used to be, when you were working in the mill, and about nine o'clock the dope wagon would come around. We would call it the dope wagon. We don't call it the dope wagon anymore. Dope's - but, the RC or the Coca-Cola was the dope. You had a pack of [Nabs?], cheese crackers, and a, and a dope, or a pack of peanuts. And you took the peanuts, and you poured them down into the drink. Right, Claude?

WARD: That's right, that's right.

MCATEER: And you drank the drank with the peanuts in there, and chewed the peanuts. So, Judith never heard tell of doing that, I don't think. But you try that, Judith, next time you're back in New York. Get you a pack of 00:28:00peanuts, and a Coke, and pour the peanuts in.

JAMIE STONEY: They take you to [Bellevue?] when they see - (laughter)

MCATEER: No, I know it. I know what Bellevue is. (laughs)

GEORGE STONEY: But this is - this is my drink. Buttermilk.

MCATEER: Now, I drink a lot of water. I would have drank water or ice tea. But I don't drink buttermilk. I never have done that. Now, my mother loves it. My daddy loves it. When my daddy was living, he ate three meals a day, of tomatoes. Sliced tomatoes. Every meal.

GEORGE STONEY: Well, I learned something when we were in Newnan, Georgia. And, so we're staying at this restaurant - we're eating at this restaurant. And I said I wanted unsweetened -

HINSON: Wow, that's tight! Now we got it.

JAMIE STONEY: They didn't know what you were talking about.

GEORGE STONEY: They said, "You mean Yankee tea?" (laughter)

MCATEER : No matter where you go, in most restaurants, the tea is unsweetened, huh?

HELFAND: Betty, why'd you make such a fancy meal?

HINSON: Because, I fix this all the time. Chicken and nut (inaudible) and, let me see. Oh, I've got fried tomatoes.

HELFAND: You have fried green tomatoes?

HINSON: Yes. Fried green tomatoes.

JAMIE STONEY: It's for our editor, who likes it.

HINSON: OK.

JAMIE STONEY: They homegrown tomatoes?

HINSON: Yes, they are. So, let's see. I think I'll just put a spoon in here.

MCATEER: I don't know how many restaurants - I mean, different ones - I'll eat in, a year. Well, a lot. And you need to do that to make yourself visible as a political person.

HINSON: Have you ever eaten any, Porter?

MCATEER: What is that?

HINSON: Fried green tomatoes.

MCATEER: Oh, yeah.

HINSON: You have?

WARD: He doesn't sound too enthusiastic!

MCATEER: No. (laughter)

HINSON: I love them.

GEORGE STONEY: Did you see that movie?

MCATEER: No. I haven't been to a movie in years. And I don't watch much TV.

LONDON: I didn't see that, but I'd like to.

MCATEER: I like to watch public TV. (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) I bought a condo, in [Inter?]. I'm going to build a house, starting in a couple months. I bought me some property. You [really made?] this dinner good.

HINSON: Claude, will you say the blessing, please?

WARD: Holy Father. We're thanking you for this food that we're about to receive. We ask you to bless it, Heavenly Father, for the nourishments in our body. We're thanking you for this meal, for the friends that we have gathered 00:31:00around this table, and we ask you to bless them, Heavenly Father, in a special way. Lead us, I ask you, and give us wisdom to follow your leadership and forgive us, I pray, of all sin. We ask it in your holy name. Amen.

STONEY: [Claude and I?].

WARD: [Didn't have to dip his finger?].

GEORGE STONEY: Betty, what am I spooning out here?

HINSON: That's dumplings.

GEORGE STONEY: Oh, she'll be coming around the mountain. (laughter)

WARD: I [bet you?] the same thing! It's like the same thing.

GEORGE STONEY: That's right. "She'll have chicken and dumplings when she comes!"

MCATEER: You have to save enough for our two distinguished photographers, here.

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah, oh, we will.

HINSON: Oh, yeah. We've got plenty.

MCATEER: It's not fair, that we get to – that you have to work.

HINSON: And they really have (inaudible).

GEORGE STONEY: Well, one of the things I'm wondering about - Betty, one of the things I'm wondering about, is, that you hear, from a way, you hear that the textile workers, and the textile manufacturers, are at each other's throats. We see it - we saw that over at Kannapolis. And there was a, you know, a rough election over there. No violence, but there was a - it was a tough election. And there seems to be so much opposition to organization. How is it in this county?

MCATEER: Well, the textile owners have always strongly opposed organized labor. Strongly opposed. Throughout history. Long as I can remember. Now, Gaston County, of course, used to be just about all textiles. But it's substantially more diversified now. And our - back when you'd have, textile industry would be in a recession, or a depressed state, people were in trouble. They just - not many people working. And, of course, at the Firestone Mill, at the time, in Gastonia, closed down, or worked three days a week, or whatever. You're talking about the (inaudible) [chapter?]? But the folks in the city had work. Thirty years ago. Forty years ago. And, so people in the grocery store were laid off. People in the clothing store were laid off, because every one manufacturing job might create two service jobs. So, and they paid very low wages, and the reason they did that, and, because they didn't have organized 00:34:00labor. Wages were terrible. And people were taken advantage of. And until diversification started to - until we started diversifying our industry. Like, Homelite. A lot of folks really opposed Homelite (inaudible). Make Homelite change (inaudible). A lot of people opposed them, but they paid pretty good salaries. And then, when Freightliner came to Gaston County, well, oh, they paid substantially better salaries. And I know one textile mill owner told me they had to adjust their salaries, to keep so many people from leaving to go to Freightliner. So, it's been healthy for our community, and for the people working here. It's been healthy for industry, because the textile industries had to tighten up, automate, do better, and employees in the textile industry are proud folks. I have [sent?] my way through college. My family were textile 00:35:00employees. My father worked in the mill, but he later was a banker. And, uh, but, uh, the owners, in the long past, opposed organized - still do. Still do.

GEORGE STONEY: Do you think that the Japanese are going to oppose organization here, as just like the old southerners?

MCATEER: I really don't know. I really don't know. Seemed like - that they, they are organized, at Firestone, now. Seemed like they're working with them pretty good, and they weren't - they were going to move somewhere else, if the employers didn't agree to certain conditions, and they did. Which must have been fair, and... You know, probably the strongest asset that a company has, it's employees. So, if you have a great management-employee relationship, you're going to have good quality, and great success, and so you want good employees. You want to take good care of your employees. If 00:36:00they're happy, they're going to look forward to coming to work, and they're going to respect management, and they're going to be proud of the product they're producing, and they're going to produce better quality. Less absenteeism, and so forth.

HINSON: And Porter, what do you teach? Industrial math, over at the college?

MCATEER: Engineering and mathematics.

HINSON: See, that - that is a help. To the textile people, too. Because they're getting a better education, and they can cope with - when they go to work, they can cope with these new machines, and computers, and whatnot.

MCATEER: More and more so. Very competitive, and so many folks in years past could quit school, and go to work. Even the manufacturers now are discouraging young folks from dropping out of high school. They're not wanting to give them jobs, unless they finish high school. The business community, along with the chamber of commerce, is really pushing for students to study harder, to learn to read better, so they can learn - be - every five years, you're having 00:37:00to re-train. So, because technology's changing so fast. So, you have to be well educated to be able to read, do basic mathematics. So that you can re-train. And a lot of people have been laid off of their jobs, of certain companies, because they weren't able to learn to read at a functional basis. I think 25% of the folks, or more - maybe 30, or I've forgotten the exact statistic. It's at least that. Were functionally illiterate, and so counties - I think one county was 42%.

GEORGE STONEY: Well, when you started working at the cotton mill, did they ask you how much education you had?

LONDON: No. They were just anxious for people to get on work. Mm-hmm. Of course, I went to work at 14. But, I quit and went back to school. But it didn't matter to them, just so they had somebody to work. Mm-hmm.

MCATEER: And they had the - of course, I don't know the history here as well as any of these folks. But they had - the mill villages - of course, you know, about that probably more than I do, and people would live in the mill house. And the rent was low. They would buy their groceries, or clothes, or shoes, at the company store. And they used scrip.

LONDON: The Mercantile, was our company store.

MCATEER: And people stayed in debt. They never got out of it. You couldn't afford to move out of the company house, or not buy at the company stores.

LONDON: Well, you know, another thing, they would take - they would take so much a week out of the envelopes, for -

HINSON: They paid in cash back then, [in an?] envelope.

GEORGE STONEY: We found a fella in Georgia who was talking about what happened when Roosevelt got in, and they got the eight hour day. And suddenly he was 00:39:00getting, instead of $7.50, he was getting $11. And, um -

LONDON: I remember that well, too.

GEORGE STONEY: And he was talking about how excited he was, as a young man. But he said, the thing that he could never forget was another man there, good bit older than him, crying because it was the first time he'd ever been able to get cash.

LONDON: How about that.

MCATEER: Isn't that something?

GEORGE STONEY: He'd -

MCATEER: Paid in scrip, or something?

GEORGE STONEY: That's right. And he got cash.

HINSON: Do you think that maybe the less educated the person was, the better? Back then? And now it's the more educated who are the better.

MCATEER: How - I don't know. I know what you're saying. People are maybe wiser, now, and they wouldn't just automatically go into that type of life. But that was a good life, pretty much, back then. People were - enjoyed what they did.

LONDON: We were happy.

MCATEER: Were happy. So, I'm not trying to be too negative about it. But that's - but I knew a lot of the mill owners took advantage of their workers. There's no question about that. Shamefully, to a certain extent.

HINSON: Right.

MCATEER: Really. Until certain labor laws were passed.

GEORGE STONEY: Now, something that you as a teacher, I think, could probably explain better than anybody I've talked with - I haven't had the chance to talk with somebody who's had both your experience in the villages and your experience in government, and then your experience as a teacher. All over the place, we see the villages, and we know how they lived. And then we look a few blocks away, at the great big houses - the mansions - of these people. We just saw one yesterday, that's been closed up for several years. Just a caretaker's family there.

LONDON: Well, there's two in Belmont, that way. The Linbergers and the Stowes.

GEORGE STONEY: And yet I have never heard a whisper of any resentment.

HINSON: Mm-mm. Mm-mm.

GEORGE STONEY: Why is that? Why would you say?

LONDON: Well, you know, we were lucky enough to get to work for them, and they were always good to us, so I guess that's the root (inaudible).

GEORGE STONEY: I mean, in any other -

LONDON: Just, the history of their, um...

MCATEER: Well, they gave people jobs when they needed them.

LONDON: You better believe they did. Mm-hmm.

MCATEER: A lot of people moved from the mountains down here, to get jobs, and -

LONDON: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. We moved from the farm.

GEORGE STONEY: Did you?

LONDON: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

MCATEER: They provided jobs. When times were hard.

HINSON: That's right. And then their wages were competitive, were they not? You maybe could complain that this mill doesn't pay as much as another. But it - that wasn't the way it was. That's probably why people didn't 00:42:00complain. Wages were about the same. That's what I'm trying to say.

MCATEER: Yeah, they were terrible. (laughter) In the old days, people were reasonably happy, I think, but they still took advantage of them. They really do. And the - generation after generation - thank you - would... In other words, family's children would work in the plant. And their children would work in the plant. Had [grandkids?] labor in there. Cheap labor.

HINSON: That's the way it was!

MCATEER: That's the way it was. I'm not a historian. A story related to that. There's a gentleman in Gastonia who's been doing a history. His name's Aycock. "A-Y-C-O-C-K." He's been doing a history of the textile industry in the Belmont area. And, George Aycock.

HINSON: I know him.

MCATEER: You need to call him. He was a teacher. Retired. He has done 00:43:00extensive research, and I was going to mention his name to you.

GEORGE STONEY: George - Betty, you can help me find him.

MCATEER: He was - I can look it up in the phonebook before I leave. He lives on Jackson Road, right up near Brookwood.

HINSON: He graduated from Belmont High.

MCATEER: But he has done, in the last couple of years, extensive research, particularly in this area. Writing a history. And another gentleman in town that's just an outstanding person, I think, whose father was a textile owner, and one that really looked after their employees, well, and this gentleman, his name's Earl Grove and he was just so good to his people that worked for him. He used to own Grove Industries, where you were today. In the Grove mill village. It's named after Earl Grove. And I'll look up Earl's business phone for you, at Avon [Bonny?] warehouse, but Earl Grove probably knows - he 00:44:00and George Aycock - as much about the history as anybody. If you could take an hour or two - or if you brought, got them together. Or separately. And, uh.

GEORGE STONEY: That would be interesting.

MCATEER: That would be just fascinating. Aycock is such a nice guy.

GEORGE STONEY: Well, I was explaining to Betty what - the purpose of this film is to help give a more well-rounded history of the textile industry, that if you go to the museum over in -

MCATEER: Dallas.

GEORGE STONEY: - Dallas. Or, you go to Columbus, Georgia. You go to a few of these other textile museums, like particularly one in Kannapolis, you'll find the history of the owners, and their families, and see their houses. And the history of the industry, and the pictures of factories. Very seldom is there anything about the workers.

MCATEER: About the families, and the workers.

GEORGE STONEY: So, what we're trying to do is -

MCATEER: Wonderful.

GEORGE STONEY: - is not to, say the other was wrong, but to complete.

MCATEER: I think that's great. Thank you for doing that.

HINSON: That's great, mm-hmm.

MCATEER: But George Aycock knows lots of folks. Has interviewed lots of folks. Probably has some names of folks that you would want.

GEORGE STONEY: That's great.

MCATEER: Would be a tremendous resource person for you, as Betty and -

HINSON: Did he has a series of stories about his travels in the Gastonia Gazette -

MCATEER: Yes.

HINSON: Then I know George. He - he was, uh, in the playhouse here, when Mr. Paul O'Neil was principal, superintendent? And he was in a lot of plays, and that's why I recognized him, years later, when I saw him. And I - I asked him, and he says, "Why did you ask who I am?" And I said, "Well, I remember seeing you play in the plays at school." He was real good.

MCATEER: One of the places I used to campaign, for sure, would be at Firestone mill. I would stand at the gates, and see the people coming out and the people going in, and other textile plants. Because the folks years ago voted. And most of my votes have been for those every day, working folks.

GEORGE STONEY: Numerically, it had to be that way.

MCATEER: Had to be.

GEORGE STONEY: But, where did you get the money for your campaign?

MCATEER: Half of it's my own. Don't have to spend a lot, because all during the year I try to continue to be out in the community, and visit around. Meet a lot of new people. I have a goal of meeting six new people every day. I don't do that every day, but on Saturdays I might have to go out and meet 42. But I can go to K-mart, or Belk's and pass out little calendar. I don't 00:47:00have any with me, but a little calendars, that will fit in your wallet, has my name on it at the top. Doesn't say vote. I just pass it. And it's six months on one side, and six on the other. And every time they take that calendar out, they see my name. (laughter) And it's a useable thing. Why give somebody a political card with your picture on it, that they'll throw away? Give them something that's useful, and it is productive for me. And I have people asking for calendars, each year. They're not very expensive, and I'll have 5, 10,000 made up. Just give them. Put them in stores, or restaurants, and people pick them up. So, uh, but you - you do that all during the year, and make yourself visible, and don't try to run just once every four years. And then when you do that, uh, you're ready. And this - my opponent in 1990 - I'm a Democrat, so my Republican opponent, who I challenged to run against me, is a very wealthy gentleman in Gastonia. And he accepted my challenge, and spent well under $40,000 on the [stand?]. And we beat him by 00:48:007,000 votes. We beat him. I don't beat anybody. It's everybody that works with you. We...

HELFAND: I wonder - while he was commission - while he was commissioner, the union ever tried to organize at Gaston.

GEORGE STONEY: Has there been any attempt at organization here?

MCATEER: Oh, yes. Firestone, and, uh, and, uh, Freightliner. (inaudible) There've been any number of attempts at other industries. And, uh, some have been successful. Some unsuccessful. You know, normally if a - if workers are satisfied, and treated with respect by management, they probably aren't going to need to organize. Or want to. It's only when you have a lot of dissatisfaction. I think the management at Freightliner. The past management 00:49:00was the cause of them, uh, getting a union. So, uh...

HINSON: I'm going to have to (inaudible) to Bess, eating for her. I'm going to have to pour -

MCATEER: If you have a phonebook, I'll, uh, look those numbers up.

HINSON: OK.

MCATEER: If you don't mind.

GEORGE STONEY: No! We'll just get this, and then I think we're about to...

HINSON: It's in the back. This is Belmont, the [connections?] in the back. For Gastonia. (laughter)

JAMIE STONEY: Now, on your calendars, do you have election day marked?

MCATEER: Uh, no. I just have "Porter L. McAteer, Gaston County Commissioner."

JAMIE STONEY: I just -

MCATEER: [Everybody knows me?].

JAMIE STONEY: - a large "x" on election day.

MCATEER: Oh, no, no. You don't - in the old days, there's a guy in Lee County wrote a book on politics. In the old days, when a lot of people couldn't read and write, and they'd have a ballot. They'd said, "No, I don't want to vote for John Doe, now!" The guy that they'd taken in to vote. And they used to drive them in. And pay them, like a dollar, or 00:50:00something. "Well, I'll tell you what. Here's John Doe's name. Here's John Doe. And I'm for John Doe, now." They say, "We'll just mark him out." They used to do that. (laughter) He said, "Thank you." You can't do that, now. That was years ago.

GEORGE STONEY: Well, I -

JAMIE STONEY: What was Chicago's motto? Vote early, and often?

GEORGE STONEY: That's right, that's right. I heard all that. That's exactly right. Mm, thank you. What's this?

HINSON: Ambrosia.

GEORGE STONEY: Oh, great.

HELFAND: It's so good.

GEORGE STONEY: This was my family's favorite. (overlapping dialogue; inaudible).

MCATEER: OK, so D.S. Aycock. I know him as George. 865 -

GEORGE STONEY: That's a -

MCATEER: I'll write it down, I'll write it down.

GEORGE STONEY: OK, thank you.

(people cleaning plates)

MCATEER: I don't know if Earl's number is listed.

(pause)

GEORGE STONEY: Just ask Claude to tell us what he did.

HINSON: OK.

GEORGE STONEY: When the plane is over.

HELFAND: Remember all that excitement, Betty, when you're –

GEORGE STONEY: Ok, Betty-

HINSON: When I saw your article, I became excited. And the first person I called was my uncle, who lives next door. And I talked to him about the strike. I said, "Was there really a strike in 1934?" And he said, "Oh, yes!" And I said, "Do you remember it?" He said, "Oh, yes." And then, tell - you want to tell me what you told me about the strike, that you were out in front of the plant, the mill -

WARD: Hm. Yup. Mm-hmm. (inaudible) I was out in front of the plant, down there, and Mr. [Bumgardener?], the supervisor, he come down. Well, naturally, he had to go in the plant to, uh, get the papers, and get - fill out papers, and things. And there was one feller standing there, he had a [boom hammer?] in his hand. Tell him, said, "You can't go in there." Mr. Bumgardener just walked on by. He didn't have no authority. Mr. Bumgardener went right on in 00:53:00there. And then, uh, the engineer, he backed into hook onto the boxcar, to take the yarn out, what they're shipping, and, uh, this fella told him, said, "You can't pull that out." Said, "Well there's a strike." They told him - said, "Well," said, "If you had been down at the [switch strike?] (inaudible) you had to cooperate. But, uh, we hooked onto it, and he waited until they hooked onto the boxcar. Said, uh, we hooked onto it. Now, said the railroad's responsible. So we have to pull it out. Well, they did. And, uh, just a short while after that, they all began to weed out, you know, a bit. I was in on it about - I imagine about, maybe a day and a half, two days? (inaudible) It got just a little bit too strict for me.

GEORGE STONEY: Were you in the union before it struck?

WARD: Huh?

GEORGE STONEY: Were you on the union before it struck?

WARD: No, uh-uh. I wasn't - I wasn't in the union. I was just, maybe a couple days before that, I joined it. And I thought it would, uh, kind of help, 00:54:00you know? They'll help. And, kind of help the village. But, it didn't do nothing. Help wouldn't stick together, and they, um - I seen (inaudible) go over to talk with him, and so I did, too.

GEORGE STONEY: Why did you think that it would help?

WARD: Well, we weren't getting too much pay, you know, then. And, uh, well, I thought, if I can - maybe I was making $13.75 for 55 hours. I thought, well, maybe I could get a little bit more pay. But, uh, they kept stepping me up, on different machines, and I never - I [quit?] working then. I believe I was making about $15 and - [some huge number?] I think it was.

HINSON: You made a week?

WARD: A week, yeah. Fif -

HINSON: No, it was more than that, when you retired.

WARD: Oh, when I retired. Oh, when I retired, I don't know. I don't think 00:55:00I was making that. I don't think I was making over $18 a week when I retired.

HINSON: Forty. I think about 40.

GEORGE STONEY: Well, Claude, uh, do you remember other people talking to you about being in the union?

WARD: No! There wasn't no way to say, I'm not belonging to it. But, uh, they, uh - some of the other help, you know. It was, uh, I didn't' belong to it. I've seen it was going to cause trouble. You know, the union was going to cause trouble. So I just switched out of it.

GEORGE STONEY: How long had you worked in the mill before then?

WARD: I worked, let's see... 1940, was it?

HINSON: The strike was in '34.

WARD: '34.

HINSON: And you began working 19 -

WARD: 1926.

HINSON: At the Eagle.

WARD: At the Eagle.

GEORGE STONEY: How was your bosses, down there at the Eagle?

WARD: They were nice. Just as nice as they could be. I didn't have trouble with any of them, but (inaudible) a lot of times, I worked my shift, and I'd work over. (inaudible) [I don't want a job?]. And I had to go home to get my 00:56:00breakfast, you know, and tell them, I said, "I'm going to go get my breakfast." You're getting paid 'till 6 o'clock. (inaudible) They said, "You're want to go home and eat your breakfast, you go ahead." He wasn't nothing but just running a machine. [If you have to have me on your job?], I'll be on it. So I went home. I told my boss man about it. That's (inaudible) both men overnight about it!

GEORGE STONEY: Sounds to me like you had a good time down there, then.

WARD: Oh, I had - I had a wonderful time. I had a wonderful set of boss men, sure did. I worked in the spinning department, until we moved to Belmont. And, uh, I guess I'd been working the spinning department the day, you know, 'till I retired. But, uh, I kept coming over my job (inaudible). Want me to 00:57:00come to the Eagle. And, uh, they hadn't been running that very long.

HINSON: About two years, I think.

WARD: Not two years.

HINSON: You were at - you were at [Craver's Mount?] and they kept coming over, asking you to come over.

WARD: Yup, mm-hmm. Yup, uh-huh. They taught me what I knew, in the (inaudible). Well, I did. Run every [job in Carver?]. Just switch me from one job to the next.

GEORGE STONEY: How much education did you have?

WARD: Uh, I quit school when I was in the - I promoted to sixth grade. I'd listened to my dad, I'd have went on to finish. But, a big man like then, I had to have my way about it. I got an automobile when I was 15. (inaudible) And, uh, I went to work in the mill. For the (inaudible), down in the freights.

GEORGE STONEY: OK, I think that does it. Thank you very much.

HELFAND: Can we talk to them about Bruce Graham, and, uh -

HINSON: These are my neighbors. I want you to meet them.

GEORGE STONEY: Yup. Bruce Graham -

JAMIE STONEY: OK, I just want to get some cutaways.

GEORGE STONEY: Oh, yes, yes, OK. Yeah.

HINSON: This is Charlene.

CHARLENE: (inaudible) mom.

GEORGE STONEY: Hello.

DONNY: I just was going to come over, see how you're doing!

WARD: Doing just fine, son.

DONNY: Was going to do a magic trick for you.

WARD: How's that?

DONNY: You want to see one?

WARD: Yeah.

DONNY: Mm-kay, I got a couple here, for you.

CHARLENE: (inaudible) does magic shows. He teaches school.

DONNY: How's it going today?

WARD: Going just fine, son.

DONNY: Got a string here. I want you to look at it, and make sure everything's OK with it. Look pretty good?

WARD: Looks OK to me, [Donny?].

DONNY: OK, this is rope cutter. Put one end of the rope into the rope cuter, like this. And what I want you to do is just simply tell me where you want me to stop. Any place you want.

WARD: Right there.

DONNY: Right there?

WARD: Yup.

DONNY: (cutting sound) OK, now I'm going to cut the rope. You see, the rope's cut. Now, I'm going to restore it. I'm going to bring it back 00:59:00together. Now watch, right here, real close. (cutting sound) There it is.

WARD: Well.

DONNY: Let me show you one more, here. While you get going. You saw David Copperfield fly through the air?

WARD: Mm-hmm.

DONNY: Well, I'm going to show you how a match can fly. Kind of float.

WARD: By the way, how's (inaudible)?

CHARLENE: She's doing good.

DONNY: Yeah, she sure is. Take two cards, and I want you to take this match and just lay it on top of this card, here. There you go. I want you to concentrate on this match, real close, OK? Concentrate real good, and watch the match. Here we go. Concentrate, ready? And you can see no strings here, no strings here.

WARD: Well, hell. (laughter)

CHARLENE: What do you think of that, Claude?

WARD: Well, this is a boy.

CHARLENE: I know he is. You hadn't seen him for a long time.

WARD: I have!

CHARLENE: And I said, "There's Claude, over there." I thought you just had visitors here, you know.

DONNY: We didn't mean to interfere, but - (laughter) Well, it's good seeing you! [Jeanette?]'s doing good. She's - I'm going to bring her over sometime. Let her see you.

WARD: OK, do that.

DONNY: OK. We'll get going. You guys take care.

HINSON: I've got something for Jeanette to give Ray. Can you wait a minute?

DONNY: Yeah, sure.

HINSON: OK.

CHARLENE: Claude hasn't seen him for a year, since his wedding.

HINSON: Claude was telling him what he remembered about the strike in 1934?

CHARLENE: Oh, good.

HINSON: And I didn't know until a few months ago that there had been a strike. And I -

DONNY: Well, we're going to go pick up Dad's car. Did you want to get something for -