Ernest Moore and E.W. Passmore Interview 1

GEORGE STONEY: Now I've got to stay a little bit closer to you, because, uh, you're being picked up on my mic, you see.

E.W. PASSMORE: Oh, OK.

STONEY: You see, there.

PASSMORE: Yeah. Oh, OK.

STONEY: That's why I was crowding you a little bit.

PASSMORE: Oh, OK.

STONEY: OK.

PASSMORE: 'Round here all we do up here now is, is storage. We have these -- each department has their little storage bin where they keep -- keep their junk.

STONEY: Yeah, sure. They're a great place for these, uh, skateboarders.

PASSMORE: Yeah, sure would. All of them. And for right now, I would say that 98% of all the boards in the plant are rock paper.

STONEY: Oh.

PASSMORE: All this is (inaudible). Makes for good flooring.

STONEY: Yeah. Well, I just wonder if they will blow it up rather than take it apart.

PASSMORE: They will probably -- they -- there are people around who will come in and take this building down, break the brick in, in -- see, all these beams are worth money.

STONEY: Yeah.

PASSMORE: Uh, they can all be quarter sawed and, uh, it's all made out of hard pine, so it makes beautiful flooring.

PASSMORE: You --

STONEY: I hope -- I hope you're right, because in New York, of course, I guess labor is so expensive there, and time is so expensive.

PASSMORE: Right.

STONEY: You know, I live in a place where every piece of land seems to have a taxi meter on it, you know. And so they just blow them up.

PASSMORE: That's a shame.

STONEY: I know. But I have one former student who made one of the best films I've ever seen about building -- some, uh, Italian bought the, the old 00:02:00Treasury building, was really built hard, and he set up free cameras to watch them tear it down, taking a picture every -- every minute. You know, so it was -- you know, so it was --

PASSMORE: They look like ants rolling up.

STONEY: That's right. And then he showed the building. It's a, it's a great, it's a great movie.

PASSMORE: You could reverse it and put it back together.

STONEY: Yeah, that's right. He did.

PASSMORE: Oh, he did, yeah.

STONEY: It was great fun to see it, you know.

PASSMORE: Yeah, I'll bet that was fun.

STONEY: Yeah, this was made in -- for Italian television, and then it ran on our televisions too. Recognize any of this, [Bob?]? (inaudible) [Ernest?]?

ERNEST MOORE: Well, I don't know why he'd come up after pulleys, they probably --

PASSMORE: Pushed the pulleys.

MOORE: -- run the machine and (inaudible) pulleys.

PASSMORE: I'll show you an interesting feature.

STONEY: OK.

PASSMORE: Spindles.

STONEY: Yup.

M2: Spindles.

(pause)

STONEY: In a few moments we'll come back up and get some close shots of that.

PASSMORE: OK. During -- when this building was built, it was -- you know, they didn't have a lot of hydraulic frames and things to move equipment around. So how do you think they would move equipment in a multi-story building? Can't see it here, because (inaudible). They came in, put a hook right here --

STONEY: Yeah?

PASSMORE: -- and another hook right there. The floor came -- the floor sections 00:04:00came out, all the floors. [audio cutting out; inaudible] back here, (inaudible) there, they got the floor sections all the way down, and pull it up.

STONEY: Huh.

PASSMORE: Just like on a ship. And, uh, we had often wondered how they did this, and the -- and our plant engineer was wandering, wandered around one day and happened to look up, and he said, well, that's how they did it.

STONEY: (laughter)

PASSMORE: And, uh, it's not in the new section [audio cutting out; inaudible]. That's how they moved equipment up and down in a multi-story building.

STONEY: Uh-huh.

PASSMORE: And there's one here, one other opposite side of the plant [audio cutting out; inaudible].

STONEY: (inaudible) sunshine. Got a sun [audio cutting out; inaudible].

PASSMORE: I think I told you, the new section was built in 1919.

STONEY: Yup. Did you say your father was here? Uh, when did, when did he come here?

PASSMORE: Uh, he came to work in, uh, oh, gosh, I can't remember now. [audio cutting out; inaudible] Then left it (inaudible). But he was here when (inaudible) 1935.

STONEY: Uh-huh.

PASSMORE: What we have, we got slicers, slicing machines. Came down here and like a sewing machine, they sewed the cords [audio cutting out; inaudible] with a sewing machine. And that just kept moving. That's sort of an obsolete thing that we, um, we aired splices now.

STONEY: Uh, Jamie? Judy? I think we're ready now for you to come up for close-ups of the -- here, if you can get me. If you can -- (inaudible)

PASSMORE: The difference here is, you [steeled those?], you know, steel windows.

STONEY: Yeah.

PASSMORE: Around here they use wooden --

STONEY: Yeah.

PASSMORE: -- window enclosures. That's the advancement in 20 years.

STONEY: Yeah. So I want to see if he's ready. You ready to -- Jamie, can you hear me? OK, look at the foreman. (pause)

[SILENCE]

[SILENCE]

STONEY: Ernest, can you tell me about this?

MOORE: No, we didn't have much (inaudible).

STONEY: Uh-huh. What was this?

PASSMORE: That was a, uh, [Reese puller?] when -- originally a Reese puller, should I say, and, um, it was converted over to a splicing machine -- what we call reclaiming. Uh, most of our equipment has been, uh, changed or, uh, rebuilt to fit the, um, tire cord manufacturers. This is another, what we call a [Reese puller?]. And we special-built all of this stuff ourselves.

STONEY: Mm.

PASSMORE: Like, as I said, get our type (inaudible) of --

STONEY: They special-built all this, yeah. They special-built all of this.

MOORE: Uh --

MOORE: See the (inaudible), they, they've made different, uh -- we've mixed two and three of them.

STONEY: Yeah.

MOORE: So we use that for the machinery.

STONEY: Yup.

PASSMORE: You know what those are?

STONEY: Nope.

PASSMORE: You know what those are? (inaudible)

MOORE: I believe I forget. I don't know.

PASSMORE: Those are, uh, discs. That's what we, uh -- every style we earned had a different disc in the, in the bobbin. That was put in the top, so if you dropped a bobbin and you had three different styles there, you know which, what, 00:09:00what bobbin to put it back in.

STONEY: I see.

(pause)

STONEY: Have you been back in your old plant? Have you been back in your old plant?

MOORE: A few times, yeah.

STONEY: But it's still working in --?

MOORE: They, uh, they had to call me in over there (inaudible) a couple of times (inaudible) find out that was (overlapping dialogue; inaudible)

[SILENCE].

STONEY: (laughter) (pause) Yeah? Thank you.

JUDY HELFAND: You want to use that kind of stuff?

STONEY: Sure, OK.

HELFAND: That's my suggestion.

M2: You know a fellow named [Horton Davis?] (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) --

PASSMORE: Yup, sure did.

MOORE: Yeah, he would be shop a while.

STONEY: We'll, we'll get some close stuff there. Closest one is this.

HELFAND: But even the forest stuff, it's very beautiful, I mean, if we have the two of you walking.

MOORE: What kind of work was it?

PASSMORE: He was a mechanic.

STONEY: OK.

HELFAND: Or even just in a (inaudible), could just get parts of him.

MOORE: (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) Was he a good one too?

PASSMORE: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

HELFAND: Then we could do his voice over that.

STONEY: OK.

HELFAND: But we can't use his voiceover for a three shot.

STONEY: OK.

PASSMORE: (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) I liked him.

STONEY: We could probably cut -- we could cut.

PASSMORE: He and my daddy were big buddies.

MOORE: He married my wife's sister.

STONEY: OK. Ernest -- I'm going to have you stay here with the camera in just a moment, and Ernest and I are going to walk up this way.

PASSMORE: OK, good.

STONEY: Ernest, just walk up this way, this is fine. Judy, just tell Jamie we're walking up this way.

(pause)

STONEY: Remember these?

MOORE: Yeah, that's a -- that's a, that's a, some kind of a bobbin.

STONEY: Yup.

MOORE: Looked kind of like a spool, but that's a, that's a bobbin.

STONEY: Mm-hmm.

MOORE: I'm (inaudible) that machine here. But, see, they -- they, they turned this into [Hort Clem?] bar stone, they (inaudible) machinery. See, we didn't have machinery like you. I just, um, asked him if he knowed Warren Davis. He worked in the shop, (inaudible) about the same age, I asked him what kind of work he did -- worker, but he said he was good. And he was my brother-in-law, he married my wife's sister, so he used to work here.

STONEY: Ah.

INTERCOM: Yeah, this is [live three?], I'm down in, uh, [Port Mills?], I need 00:12:00to drive for any one of those hours, I guess.

STONEY: Go around this way. Guess your brother-in-law and then helped make some of this stuff. Let's go -- let's go back over and look out the window.

[SILENCE]

INTERCOM: Are you standing right now? Negative.

MOORE: First time I've ever been on this mill. (inaudible)

STONEY: Well --

MOORE: I never did think I'd like to work here.

STONEY: Why not?

MOORE: Well, I think the small plant, the work conditions would be better -- something better.

[SILENCE]

STONEY: Be a great place to have a square dance, wouldn't it?

INTERCOM: (overlapping dialogue; inaudible)

STONEY: It's a good place for (inaudible). That's a (inaudible) -- that's a thing y'all do. [audio cutting out; inaudible]

MOORE: It's pretty. You can tell this is a twister room. They had the -- you had a lot of grease on the machinery, oil, and you see the floor's soaked full of oil. That's oil and grease, black there. See, they re-floored them.

(pause)

STONEY: OK, Jamie?

HELFAND: Do you want to design something with Jamie, with maybe just --

STONEY: No, (overlapping dialogue; inaudible).

HELFAND: -- Ernest just walk by himself past one of these, without his tag on?

F1: He was smart. He really was smart.

M5: No, he was a good fellow.

HELFAND: I just think that the more options we have the better.

M5: I figure he's a good worker --

STONEY: Ernest, may I take this off of him just a moment?

M5: Sure.

STONEY: OK. Ernest, I want you to -- you, you remember the -- what we just did, walking around? When you and I just walked around there, you know, we went up that way, and then, well, I don't know, the window, and then back over to here -- could you do that alone?

MOORE: I don't remember what I said.

STONEY: You don't have to say anything. Just walk, OK?

MOORE: What happened -- (inaudible).

STONEY: OK. OK.

HELFAND: I'll tell you when, OK?

STONEY: You don't have to say anything, you see? Just walk.

MOORE: OK. Whenever you're ready.

HELFAND: (inaudible) -- you figure it out. He's going to walk --

STONEY: We all have ideas. Yeah. (laughter)

F1: Did they not pick up what he said?

STONEY: It's very difficult here. (inaudible)

[audio cuts out; several minutes' pause]

[SILENCE]

[SILENCE]

[SILENCE]

[SILENCE]

[SILENCE]

MOORE: Well, you don't remember too much about the old Communist organization, 00:22:00the (inaudible) organizer -- was you big enough to understand?

PASSMORE: No, I -- I heard it from my daddy.

MOORE: -- I didn't think if you -- your mother, yeah.

PASSMORE: Yeah, my mom and dad.

MOORE: See, I've done -- I've done the work to -- see, I went to work when I was 14 so I know -- I've learned -- I remember just about all what happened, you see, my daddy held (inaudible). But we didn't need that kind of organization.

PASSMORE: No we didn't.

MOORE: So have -- [audio cutting out; inaudible]

M3: OK?

[pause, audio fuzzing and cutting out]

[SILENCE]

[SILENCE]

M5: Uh, you'll start -- you've got about an 18 here, if you'll pan (inaudible). Eight-forty and drop me. Let's come back to the 40 and see if we can take it up here 14 -- 28 -- [so I can't?] hold their -- [audio cutting out; inaudible] -- drop it down, 24, 20, 18. Then 28. Pull the --

F1: -- no way I can get any decent shot.

M6: OK, uh, we're rolling.

STONEY: But it's Ernest where -- OK, tell us what these are.

MOORE: You mean that.

STONEY: Yeah.

MOORE: That's spindles. [audio cutting out; inaudible]

MOORE: The bobbin fits on. That's a spindle. That and plenty of grease.

STONEY: Pull there -- pull on there, yeah.

PASSMORE: The blade fits right in there.

STONEY: I see.

MOORE: And that's what makes it turn.

STONEY: I see. That -- that's what made it -- makes it turn, huh? I see, yeah. I guess all of this is obsolete now.

MOORE: Yeah.

CREW: OK.

MOORE: Hey, they -- they running coarse yarn now, make (inaudible).

INTERCOM: OK, roger, thank you.

PASSMORE: That's single-ply.

MOORE: All of them?

PASSMORE: That's single-ply.

MOORE: Two-ply?

PASSMORE: Single.

MOORE: All of them.

PASSMORE: One-ply.

MOORE: One-ply, yeah. (inaudible)

PASSMORE: Oh, yeah. That's all the fibers that make it up.

MOORE: If it's two-ply in a -- in a part of it.

[beeping, audio fuzzing]

STONEY: Jamie, could you get a close enough up --

PASSMORE: Two ply.

STONEY: Yeah? I see.

PASSMORE: You know the two-plies turn up?

STONEY: Yup.

PASSMORE: Excuse my dirty fingernails, I restore cars for a hobby.

STONEY: (laughter) OK.

M2: Seven cords, wrapped by 12, surrounded by one.

STONEY: Jamie? Jamie? We're going to be walking on the other side here, so you've got --

[audio cuts out; pause]

[SILENCE]

STONEY: Go ahead. You're going to have some garage sale when this is over.

PASSMORE: Big one. Or someone's landfill is going to be full.

STONEY: Oh, I hope not that. (pause) I was just saying they're going to have some garage sale when this is over. These old metal carts? I thought I'd only seen wooden carts in these places.

PASSMORE: You see a lot of wooden carts in a cotton operation.

STONEY: Yup, yup, that's, that's what I'm saying, yup, yup.

CREW: OK --

STONEY: Now --

CREW: Just you two guys walking around?

STONEY: Yup.

CREW: OK.

STONEY: OK. You and I, just walking together now.

MOORE: How do they make different (inaudible)? Three of them? The (inaudible) don't hold nothing -- [audio cutting out; inaudible] had to use a different machine (inaudible) different.

STONEY: Boy, a lot of old changes, yeah? Yeah.

(pause)

[SILENCE]

MOORE: Before they put in sprinklers, they had to make (inaudible) water 00:32:00buckets. Now, before, you had water buckets.

STONEY: Were there many fires?

MOORE: Not too many, no. I guess the insurance poured into it.

STONEY: Yeah, yeah. We had a funny thing -- we were over at the -- over at one of the Cone mills --

MOORE: Yup, (inaudible).

STONEY: And they had fire extinguishers that were -- that pointed and then sat in sand, and one of the guys thought that's why they called it the Cone mills, because the Cones -- (laughter) Crazy, wasn't it?

MOORE: Well, one, uh, one owner, that was his name, wasn't it?

STONEY: Yeah. Sure. Yeah. That was at, uh, over at, uh, Anniston, uh -- no, 00:33:00at, uh -- oh, where it was --

MOORE: Concord?

STONEY: No. That was -- no, over in Alabama. Ah, Gadsden. Cone -- Cone came over and bought that old mill over in, in, uh, Gadsden. And closed it up.

MOORE: In Alabama?

STONEY: Yeah.

MOORE: I used to go through that, going to the Mississippi --

STONEY: Yeah.

MOORE: For, they got the uh-- that, uh, 20 opened up that goes down to Atlanta-- go down and hit 20 going to Birmingham that way. I used to go through Gadsden to visit my son. Only time I'd stop off was for lunch at a gas station. Are you still (inaudible), going to (inaudible) --

INTERCOM: (inaudible)

STONEY: OK, come over here, want to get that hand motion --

MOORE: Oh, I got a sweater, I got a sweater.

HELFAND: OK.

STONEY: Yeah. Could you tell me about the old Loray Mill? What happened here 00:34:00in '29?

MOORE: Well, uh, a fellow, Bill, he organized the Community Party. And they tried to get a foothold in America. They figured men in the mill was low -- low-paying, and that, that's where they could get started, where the workers were dissatisfied. That was -- that's my idea and my thoughts, just so you know. And they -- that's what they, they worked on, so -- dissatisfied American people. Yup, and a prominent part of it, they, they tried to work on that, get organized. That's the way I see it.

STONEY: How far did they get?

MOORE: They didn't get too far. I don't know about up north. You know, they organized pretty well up north, but this is -- the only place, first place I knew of they tried to organize in the South. But we didn't need that kind of 00:35:00organization in America.

STONEY: What happened?

MOORE: Well, he organized -- yup -- you know, they, they tried to bust them. So I, I forget a lot of what happened. But, um, they, uh, I know when, when the -- went down to headquarters to run them out and bust them up, the chief of police dug in (inaudible) law enforcement officers over there, down to headquarters, and the unit in headquarters where [Beale?] and a few boys are, and that's when the shooting took place. And Aderholt was killed.

STONEY: He was the sheriff.

MOORE: No, he was the chief of police.

STONEY: Chief of police.

MOORE: (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) Chief of police of Gastonia, yeah. So that, uh, that busted all the [audio cutting out; inaudible] organizations here in [DC?]. That, that was the end of it.

STONEY: Now, in '34 when your father was head of your union and the Grove, the, the fact that all of this had happened in Gastonia, did that hurt you?

MOORE: Well, some, yeah. They, uh, some, some workers -- they -- they had to suffer with some, but, um, when the general strike was called, uh, and when the strike was over, the union lost. So that was a -- that was the end of that, uh, organization. American Textile Union.

STONEY: What -- what I was wondering about is whether the fear that your union might have been Communist --

MOORE: No, no, no, no.

STONEY: -- like, like the '29 --

MOORE: No. But they know that, uh -- how they, they treated them here at the [Firestone?], how the company went after busting the union, and they had more fear of what happened to them. That was uneasy. Most of them was a little bit scared to join the union, afraid of being laid off, lose their job, (inaudible). They got a little bit of a taste of it on this strike, you see. So that's a -- that's about all --

STONEY: Well, it's interesting to me that we come here to find out about the big general strike of '34, when many more mills were out, and about anyth-- the only thing people remember is about the '29 strike.

MOORE: Yeah, yeah. Well, they have -- they must have tried to organize way back there in (inaudible). But we had a fellow that worked at the Grove, when we was a-picketing at the gate, he come up and he kind of give us a lecture. He said, 00:38:00"We tried that years ago, and it didn't work." And he said, "It won't work." And he was a -- he was wanting them to work, and he -- he kind of give us a little lecture on that counsel. I don't remember it, but he said that they tried it years way back. But I don't remember it, you see.

STONEY: OK. That's --

MOORE: He did. He was, he was about my father's age, you see.

STONEY: OK. OK. We're going to go over here now, Jamie, and get the close hands.

JAMIE: OK.

(pause)

MOORE: I'm, I'm not familiar with this machinery. I, I can explain to you just how it worked, but -- another gentleman, he might tell you just exactly how 00:39:00it worked, you see. We nev-- we never did -- at the (inaudible), we didn't have this, this machinery.

STONEY: OK. Just want to do that one more time. Just put the -- the bobbin on and turn it. Take it off and then put it back on, yeah. Yeah, you can put it back on again now.

MOORE: And, uh, you had to -- you had to keep these oiled.

STONEY: Mm-hmm.

MOORE: These are spindles. You had to oil them so -- so often. Take your spindle (inaudible) put oil in there, keep oil in there, you see, keep it full of oil.

STONEY: Yeah.

CREW: Can you give me a little bit more?

STONEY: Just a little more, then. Do the same thing again.

MOORE: Huh?

STONEY: Same thing again.

MOORE: Do the same thing?

STONEY: Yeah, yeah.

HELFAND: (inaudible) more times.

MOORE: They hit full of oil now, see?

STONEY: Yeah.

MOORE: Oh. This is -- we had the twisters build up, but most of -- they had frames up here to run down twisters --

STONEY: Mm-hmm.

MOORE: -- with, uh, cheese and cones up there, come down, make two-ply, three-ply, and what would come down and run on one spindle, see. Twisted. But this is -- I don't know what the machine is called here.

STONEY: Yeah.

MOORE: I just don't know it. It's, it's different, and I'm not used to it. He might explain to you what it is.

STONEY: OK. (inaudible) Ah, Judy, I think we've got this in (inaudible).

HELFAND: OK.

STONEY: Um --

HELFAND: Uh, I'm sure that, um, our friend would let us come back one more time --

MOORE: What was that machine there?

HELFAND: -- to get some stills, or should we try and get everything we can get now?

STONEY: Uh, we can come back later and get stills, yeah.

PASSMORE: What we called a reclaimer?

PASSMORE: Reclaim (inaudible) operation (inaudible).

MOORE: Yeah.

PASSMORE: And the purpose of that was to turn it up. See, what -- what you'd do, we took pieces --

MOORE: Yeah.

PASSMORE: -- that came off the cable twister --

MOORE: Yup.

PASSMORE: -- or a ply twister, and put on the -- it was a row of spindles down 00:41:00here. You put the pieces down here, and then, uh, when that piece ran out, you reached over and turned up the stop or the brake --

MOORE: Yup.

PASSMORE: Lifted the spool, and then you --

MOORE: They get the manufacture side, and then they want the union side, you see, and that -- (inaudible) -- and [Lee Anderson?], I'll make it the --

STONEY: It's pretty much a (inaudible) of what we got over on this side.

HELFAND: It's just, you don't have all the (inaudible).

MOORE: And then my daddy was a president down local, but I don't know who (inaudible) to come in contact with him. [audio distortion; inaudible] They won't call New York (inaudible) textile union, but you don't track them all. My son, he'd probably get me another (inaudible), but I didn't (inaudible). 00:42:00He, he let (inaudible), he's over at -- he's the director at United Way, (inaudible). Last year, I believe it was last year, they laid, laid -- (inaudible) then lost money.

PASSMORE: That little boy out in California, in Putney, California (inaudible) all that money They got money?

MOORE: New York money? It wasn't New York money.

PASSMORE: It wasn't? He got ruined [eight?].

MOORE: Well, he kept (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) [overlapping dialogue, combined with distortion on audio, continues inaudibly for a few minutes]

STONEY: I'm just wondering if it wouldn't be better to have the two of them across the two different sides.

HELFAND: Uh-huh. And then if we get that voiceover from later, so we can get him to have that conversation again?

STONEY: Well, we got it up there. Remember at the gate? We're talking about the two sides, and my daddy was one of the 100?

HELFAND: Right, but before Ernest was (inaudible) addressing the... Can we get it both ways?

STONEY: Can try.

HELFAND: But --

CREW: But that's what I mean, if we could see just the [audio cutting out; 00:43:00inaudible] then it's (inaudible) the two sides.

HELFAND: I think we also need to have Ernest (inaudible) just in case, but we don't want that story --

STONEY: Well, we've got (inaudible) -- we got him over here alone.

HELFAND: OK.

STONEY: You're off.

HELFAND: Can we do you first?

STONEY: OK.

CREW: Yeah, go. Go.

STONEY: (inaudible) shut off.

HELFAND: He's off.

F1: What is that?

HELFAND: You're not on a tape recorder, don't worry. You're not on a tape.

MOORE: Tell me when you turn on.

HELFAND: Yes, sir. I only turn on when you're on camera.

F1: (inaudible)

MOORE: (inaudible), but we started in what we call (inaudible). (pause) (inaudible)

MOORE: What was your first job here?

PASSMORE: Uh, go right. I worked my way to (inaudible). Like a (inaudible), if you find out what it is, bring out the (inaudible).

STONEY: I didn't think it changed.

MOORE: Well, they picked me to go to Belmont College, (inaudible) I finally got 00:45:00the bail level super moderate.

PASSMORE: Lot of responsibility. Lot more responsibility than it is (inaudible).

MOORE: I didn't (inaudible).

STONEY: Is that OK, [Jamie?]?

CREW: Sure.

MOORE: (overlapping dialogue; inaudible)

STONEY: You know, if they have these, like, gyms where people get exercise and all that --

HELFAND: Yeah, yeah.

STONEY: And they could turn this into a walking mall.

HELFAND: (inaudible)

PASSMORE: I didn't think we'd want to work here as long as my daddy worked here.

MOORE: Uh-huh.

PASSMORE: Yup, but, you know, at that time that's the only job I could find, so I took what I can get. And you know what a drop wire is on a twister?

MOORE: Drop wire? Yeah.

PASSMORE: That's what I made. I stood and made drop wire--

MOORE: Oh, oh.

PASSMORE: -- the first year I was here. Then I got a chance to do some other 00:46:00things, and then [audio cutting out; inaudible] He was a friend of my daddy's. And he [audio cutting out; inaudible] want to learn how to be a (inaudible). Well, I don't see why he wouldn't. So we, uh, so I went to work [audio cutting out; inaudible] and worked there for five years. And I was -- I had a good man to work for, [audio cutting out; inaudible]

HELFAND: Yeah, they saved that elevator, didn't they?

STONEY: When you visit me in the yard you're going to be surprised at the place that I live, the fourth -- I walk up four flights.

HELFAND: Oh, do you?

STONEY: Yeah.

HELFAND: I (inaudible) enjoyed New York in the time we left and started (overlapping dialogue; inaudible).

PASSMORE: [audio cutting out; inaudible] I wish sometimes that they wouldn't -- would have been [audio cutting out; inaudible], I wouldn't have the headaches I got today.

MOORE: That's right.

PASSMORE: Thirty years I'm retired, not like four more months.

STONEY: Let him go out of frame?

MOORE: It's common here.

PASSMORE: Yeah. I can retire, and I want to go something else. I don't know what that makes sense -- that don't make sense to a lot of people, they --

MOORE: Big difference. That's -- my mistake, they're going to come [audio cutting out; inaudible]. He had prop insurance. And they put it in a stock. They lost, you lost. You gain, you'd gain.

PASSMORE: Right.

MOORE: So I lost some. I didn't', I didn't, I didn't come out on top.

PASSMORE: But you usually come out (inaudible) --

MOORE: You get two bit and they paid you to get in the profit-sharing, that -- it wasn't much.

STONEY: (inaudible)

HELFAND: Sorry.

M8: (overlapping dialogue; inaudible)

HELFAND: Get it on the way down.

STONEY: How do we get up to the top?

CREW: You already had it. (inaudible)

HELFAND: (laughter)

STONEY: Oh, I, oh, I -- oh, you have a close at it.

CREW: This where you're going? This where you're going?

HELFAND: Thank you.

F1: Oh, boy, this is --

M8: Every house ought to have one of these.

F1: Yes, this is --

STONEY: Somebody else is (inaudible) down there. I once had a little studio on the West 44th Street in New York City, it was an old stable. And there was actually a hor--

CREW: Can we come back and get you?

STONEY: -- an elevator with a, uh, that they used to bring up horses on. We were once filming with, uh, Mrs. Roosevelt.

F1: Oh, I see.

STONEY: And I didn't have -- I wasn't filming with, but a friend was. (laughter) They put -- they were so embarrassed about the only thing, way they could get her up is in this horse elevator that they took crepe paper and covered the inside of it. I mean, if they'd known Mrs. Roosevelt, they'd have known --

F1: They wouldn't have cared. She was --

STONEY: Well, they don't -- she'd, she'd, she'd got a kick out of it.

F1: Yeah.

(pause)

STONEY: Jamie, just put your thing off your shoulder, if you don't mind, just for this. Just so that little -- it don't look like we're filming.

CREW: (inaudible)

STONEY: No, no, that's why I got him to take it off his shoulders, even.

CREW: That's about the best I'm going to be able to do for you.

STONEY: Uh-huh. No, this is not going to be too good.

JAMIE: That's all right. I can, uh -- I can slide over there if you guys can get over here.

STONEY: Uh, it's not going to show us much, though, Jamie.

JAMIE: Huh?

STONEY: It's not going to show us much. No, it's -- you see, you just can't get that tree there, and that -- uh --

M8: (inaudible)

STONEY: I just -- you see, I'm trying to match some stuff, and I just don't -- I'm afraid it's not going to work. Does it look like anything to you, (inaudible)?

HELFAND: Well, you're talking to each other, so that's something.

STONEY: Yeah.

HELFAND: We can match it later.

STONEY: Oh, OK. Uh -- Were you here when, when the troops came in? The -- when the, when they had the Loray strike? You didn't come over here, did you?

MOORE: No, I didn't come over here, no.

STONEY: Uh-huh.

MOORE: No, (inaudible).

STONEY: Bob, could you come over here just a minute? We're looking down, now, on the front of the mill.

PASSMORE: Right.

STONEY: Did your father ever tell you about the -- and the -- when the tru-- when the, uh, National Guard came here?

PASSMORE: Yes, uh-huh.

STONEY: Uh, what'd he say about it?

PASSMORE: Well, my mother really told me more about the Guard than, than my father did. Uh, when he was -- when, when she was working, they lived over on in a, in a dormitory-like, uh, on Third Street. Third and Fourth, I believe. And the cavalry was here, and they would meet under the street light, and the cavalry would escort them to work on their shift, and then escort them back home.

STONEY: But now, that was in '29 or '34?

PASSMORE: Uh, I believe that was '34. And, uh, and then, uh, my dad told me 00:52:00more about what went on with, fighting the union than, uh, than actually talking about the, uh, guard. Uh, I understand that the, uh, the guard had a machine gun nest set up down somewhere in around the personnel office, and I, you know, whether that's the truth or not I really don't know, but -- and my dad didn't tell me that, uh, but I have heard that, uh, that that's sort of hearsay. Uh, but knowing a lot about the National Guard being here, no, I, I really don't know a lot about that.

STONEY: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. I believe we have a picture of that. Let's see, do we have the, the blue book with us?

HELFAND: It's in my backpack.

STONEY: OK, let's see if we don't. Do you think we do, Judy?

HELFAND: On top of the machine, on top of the --?

STONEY: No. Uh --

HELFAND: Oh, yeah, it's in -- there's a picture of the Guard there.

STONEY: OK. Bless you for having this. She's so resourceful, this one. [background dialogue; inaudible] Jamie?

JAMIE: Yeah.

STONEY: What about, uh, by positions? Is it OK?

JAMIE: All right.

STONEY: All right.

JAMIE: Otherwise I would have moved you.

STONEY: Guess you recognize that?

PASSMORE: Oh, yeah, that's Main Street.

STONEY: That's on Labor Day, 1934. I wonder where your father was then.

PASSMORE: No telling. (laughter)

STONEY: Again, Labor Day 1934.

PASSMORE: I've never seen the pictures.

STONEY: No, they -- we found them in an old archive.

PASSMORE: Uh-huh.

STONEY: This is, uh, a -- Albert Hinson, who was one of the organizers.

PASSMORE: Where is this? This looks like a school.

STONEY: This -- that's, uh, Parkdale.

PASSMORE: Parkdale, OK.

STONEY: Ernest, uh, uh, was looking at movies of this the other night. This is 00:54:00a great big crowd of people out at the city part.

PASSMORE: (inaudible) This is the main office, is right there.

STONEY: Uh-huh. So this matches that.

PASSMORE: Yes.

STONEY: Uh-huh. Do you recognize thi-- oh, of course.

PASSMORE: No, I would not probably recognize any of those people.

STONEY: No, of course not.

MOORE: (inaudible) placard.

STONEY: Look at -- everybody wore hats and caps.

MOORE: That's when the -- make it to -- lock the gates, that's, that's what he's doing here, picketing.

PASSMORE: There's a lot of children.

STONEY: Mm-hmm. Three young ladies.

PASSMORE: Mm-hmm.

STONEY: Uh... This is in, uh, in Belmont.

PASSMORE: Oh, with a guard, yeah.

STONEY: Yeah. This is in Charlotte. Uh, had -- when they had a big meeting there. This is a family in, in Charlotte. We have talked with this lady and this lady. This is a line of people, the --

PASSMORE: Like in kerosene, or --?

STONEY: They were being fed by the, by the young'un.

MOORE: What was that at?

STONEY: This was in Charlotte, let's see. It's, uh, uh, just say it, uh, just -- it doesn't say the mill.

HELFAND: [Chadwick Hoskins?].

STONEY: Chadwick Hoskin, it's in the --

HELFAND: Hoskins.

MOORE: Hoskin, Hoskin, yeah, I remember that, yeah, yeah.

HELFAND: The Loray's in the back.

STONEY: OK. Organizing? Yeah, now --

PASSMORE: Oh, yeah. But they're browning.

HELFAND: It's Concord.

STONEY: This is Concord, right?

PASSMORE: He wasn't locked and loaded.

STONEY: Nope.

PASSMORE: See, the breach is open on the gun.

STONEY: Uh-huh. This is in, uh, Kannapolis. You recognize the mill?

MOORE: Yeah.

PASSMORE: Yeah.

STONEY: That's in Kannapolis.

HELFAND: No, that's the Loray Mill.

PASSMORE: That's the Firestone.

STONEY: Uh, uh --

PASSMORE: Oh, isn't that interesting.

STONEY: Just a moment.

PASSMORE: Oh, that is fantastic.

STONEY: You see, what we hope is that eventually --

HELFAND: George, ask him what he thinks about that. He's never seen that picture.

PASSMORE: No, I have never seen that picture before. That is really interesting. I'd like to have a copy of that.

STONEY: Mm. Well, it documents exactly what your mother was talking about, wasn't it?

PASSMORE: Yup, yup.

STONEY: Yeah?

PASSMORE: They were here.

STONEY: Yeah.

PASSMORE: Yeah, Springfield.

STONEY: Yeah. When we get outside, we're going to -- we'll get a shot that matches that --

PASSMORE: Right.

STONEY: -- if we could. So I think that's what we should do, is go down and get a marching shot of that.

CREW: Yeah, we gotta reload, take five.

STONEY: OK.