Ernest Moore and E.W. Passmore Interview 2

JUDTIH HELFAND: I wonder if he's heard about that all his life.

BOB: (inaudible) I have -- I have never seen that.

GEORGE STONEY: No.

BOB: Quite interesting.

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah. Had you heard about the guard being out here?

BOB: Oh, yes.

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah.

BOB: Yeah, yeah, (inaudible). My mother and dad talked about it, but my dad didn't say a whole lot about anything.

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah.

BOB: Uh, I heard more about the National Guard --

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.

BOB: -- from, um, my mother.

GEORGE STONEY: Uh-huh.

BOB: And, uh, as I said, you know, my dad would, would tie it up with the, uh, Committee of 100 for the company. And over the years, he didn't say a lot. And, you know, again, I know -- I have, uh, no idea of what they did or didn't do.

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah, uh-huh. What was that Committee of 100?

BOB: Uh, the Committee of 100 was made up of people -- uh, of, of workers who were against the union. And, um, I'm sure they did some things that maybe we may not even want to talk about.

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.

BOB: Uh, the same thing as the union people did, you know?

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.

BOB: They both did their dirt, and, uh, I'm sure that happened. I have no doubt about it.

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.

BOB: But, you know, we all have our convictions, and we do things the way we believe.

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.

BOB: Like the Catholics and the Protestants fighting in Northern Ireland, you know?

GEORGE STONEY: Ernest, what do you say about that?

ERNEST MOORE: Well, I know just a little bit, something about this. Somebody would come up to the Firestone (inaudible) that committee was meeting. And I know the (inaudible) he was the bookkeeper (inaudible).

GEORGE STONEY: Meeting of the Hundred?

ERNEST MOORE: That's right. And they, uh -- I don't know how true it is, but that's where they set up a -- to fight the union. That was -- now, was 00:02:00that in the general strike or was it back in the Beal strike?

BOB: I can't remember.

ERNEST MOORE: Well not -- that was back in the Beal strike.

BOB: I think that was back in the Beal strike (inaudible).

ERNEST MOORE: That was back in the Beal strike.

GEORGE STONEY: Well now, what --

BOB: Same deal with the Communists.

ERNEST MOORE: Yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah.

ERNEST MOORE: That was -- that's a Hundred (inaudible), back in the Beal strike.

GEORGE STONEY: Well now, we have evidence that the -- from the documents in Washington --

ERNEST MOORE: Yeah,

GEORGE STONEY: -- that the Hundred continued after that.

ERNEST MOORE: Well, it might have done -- see, the (inaudible).

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah.

ERNEST MOORE: But, uh, that was --

BOB: Yeah, that --

ERNEST MOORE: -- made up of the --

BOB: -- the, the, the -- I don't know whether you would find anybody who would admit this, but the Committee of 100 existed for a long -- long years. Uh, it was a very close-knit group of people.

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.

BOB: And, uh, they pretty much looked after one another.

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.

ERNEST MOORE: See, the (inaudible) of the mill picked them out.

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.

ERNEST MOORE: But I know this fellow here was a fox hunter. And I, I, I can call his name if you want it.

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm. A fox hunter?

ERNEST MOORE: Yeah, he was a fox hunter, and he was a -- he was the bookkeeper.

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.

ERNEST MOORE: So they picked out the (inaudible), but no one would fight the 00:03:00union. (inaudible) So that was back in (inaudible). And the same, uh, when Miss Wiggins got killed from Bessemer City, uh, they was organized up there. Just set up a local. Well, they was on the way to South Gastonia, to try and organize again. And they turned them around, (inaudible) Bessemer City. They started back. That's when they come up behind them and shot into the truck and killed Miss Wiggins. I was (inaudible) make a -- make his (inaudible). I don't know if it was the true story about it, but they said that that Hundred had something to do with it --

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.

ERNEST MOORE: -- as you're saying.

BOB: (inaudible), they did.

ERNEST MOORE: So, see, see, (inaudible).

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.

ERNEST MOORE: (inaudible) four cotton mills. You'd call him (inaudible), but she was a cotton mill worker. And I actually believe that they was really doing right, but we didn't need that union with the communists. We didn't need it, in my opinion. No (inaudible). But they -- them people thought they was, uh, maybe helping their self, but that's the reason they joined it. They just -- they really didn't know back then what kind of organizations they was getting into, I think.

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.

ERNEST MOORE: That's when (inaudible) was trying to organize the (inaudible), see?

GEORGE STONEY: So when your father started organizing in '33, uh, that made it harder for him?

ERNEST MOORE: Oh, (inaudible), of course, it did. They remembered all of this. See, Adderholt was killed right, right across the -- right over here, you see. Aderholt was killed (inaudible). I'll take you to the spot where he was shot down at.

GEORGE STONEY: OK, let's go over there.

HELFAND: Um, I've (inaudible).

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm. (inaudible).

ERNEST MOORE: Oh, I'm glad he -- that he told me. I didn't know. I didn't know (inaudible) about that Hundred. (inaudible) he said that that was (inaudible) killed Miss Wiggins.

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.

ERNEST MOORE: Her, her brother was with her. He was a sheriff, uh, uh, parole officer in Bessemer City, her brother was. He (inaudible).

GEORGE STONEY: OK, let's go downstairs and get this (inaudible).

HELFAND: Um, I've missed part of that story.

(break video)

BOB: -- and, um, you know, I can't stay this, but I knew some of the things that happened to me here. And, and the reason I'm in -- have some of the opportunities that I've had was because my daddy fought against the unions.

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.

BOB: I know that.

GEORGE STONEY: Sure.

BOB: I'm not stupid. (inaudible).

GEORGE STONEY: OK.

BOB: I, I told him that (overlapping dialogue; inaudible).

GEORGE STONEY: Can you pick that -- him up for me, on, uh, Ernest's microphone?

ERNEST MOORE: Um, they killed the union (inaudible).

HELFAND: Yeah, I could also use the boom.

GEORGE STONEY: OK, (inaudible).

BOB: Oh, yeah.

ERNEST MOORE: (inaudible) a lot of union people killed in Gastonia.

BOB: Well, well --

ERNEST MOORE: Don't you think that's right?

BOB: Well, that's true, but you, you look -- you've got to look on the other hand, too. Uh, we know and can look at, at, at the history of unions. The history of unions, they have killed more people than man-- than non-union people over the years. I mean, that's true.

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.

BOB: That's a true fact. What put Jimmy Hoffa in the grave?

ERNEST MOORE: (inaudible).

BOB: Unions. I mean, you know.

ERNEST MOORE: Well...

BOB: I mean, that -- that's, that's one of the biggest problems that I have with the unions, is the fact that -- uh, the violence and the -- and the mob connections, money. I mean, that's what it -- that's what it all --

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.

BOB: -- all deals around.

ERNEST MOORE: (inaudible) the working man wanted to live better, and the mill man didn't want to (inaudible).

BOB: (inaudible) I don't have it -- you know, I understand what you're saying.

ERNEST MOORE: (overlapping dialogue; inaudible).

BOB: I, I, I understand the reasons for unions.

ERNEST MOORE: Yeah, yeah.

BOB: And I understand the reasons for unions at that time.

ERNEST MOORE: Yeah.

BOB: I understand that. I don't have any problem with that. I mean, it's like in the coal, coal mines.

ERNEST MOORE: Yeah.

BOB: Those people needed a union. I don't have any problem with that. But they were being done wrong. Uh, but in, in the textile plants, things were a 00:07:00little bit different.

ERNEST MOORE: Well, I can't say nothing about the working conditions back then --

BOB: Mm-hmm.

ERNEST MOORE: -- but I thought they'd pay them just a little bit -- the wage wasn't just like it should have been.

BOB: I, I might (inaudible) disagree with you there. Uh, but as far as the companies, from my experience, uh, from, from reading and, and, and trying to understand, the people in the -- in the textile plants didn't have it bad. I mean, they had a company store. They had, uh, company housing.

ERNEST MOORE: Well, do you -- you remember the company store? The company store?

BOB: Yeah, the company store owned your soul in some cases. (laughs) I understand that too.

ERNEST MOORE: Do you remember the company stores?

BOB: No, I --

ERNEST MOORE: (overlapping dialogue; inaudible).

BOB: No, (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) company store here. Yeah, that was --

ERNEST MOORE: Most of them (inaudible) mills.

BOB: Yeah. And, uh --

ERNEST MOORE: And I remember (inaudible) talking about them.

BOB: Right.

BOB: And, uh --

GEORGE STONEY: Did your father -- was your father aware of the Committee of 100?

ERNEST MOORE: I really don't know, because that was before, before this other happened, you see? That was way back there and, uh -- I guess I know more about it than he did --

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.

ERNEST MOORE: -- you see? For -- (inaudible) back in my young days, and I got around a little bit.

ERNEST MOORE: He had a car, and I, I -- you know, I'm getting around.

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.

ERNEST MOORE: So, we -- after Miss Wiggins got killed, (inaudible) -- we was really going down to see what happened. But, see, they, they stopped us. They wouldn't let you go (inaudible). Nobody, unless you had a little ribbon. So we was up there. We knowed some people in town, and we got some ribbons. But after it was called off, we didn't go, after, after they shot Miss Wiggins. (inaudible) go down there. We'd go down just to on-look, you know? We'd just, uh, see what was going on. So...

GEORGE STONEY: Did you come over and see the National Guard that were here at the time?

ERNEST MOORE: At -- through the general strike? I might have drove by here. I don't know, but I (inaudible). Seemed like we did, but I don't know, though. I just don't remember.

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.

ERNEST MOORE: Seemed like (inaudible) pictures. I've seen some... Seems like I seen some machine guns set up --

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.

ERNEST MOORE: -- down the -- down this mill. But --

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.

ERNEST MOORE: -- I just won't --

GEORGE STONEY: OK.

ERNEST MOORE: I just won't comment on that (inaudible).

GEORGE STONEY: Well, won't we go down and, and see --

HELFAND: Did they ever find out what ever happened to the s-- did they ever find out who did that -- who did shoot Miss Wiggins, or that Sheriff Aderholt?

ERNEST MOORE: No, they didn't -- they didn't try. You see, (inaudible) back, back them days, I know the politicians in town, and I know what -- how they stood, you know, and everything. And they wasn't -- they wanted nothing done about it. Who, who's gonna see about it? They (inaudible) -- they controlled the court, the officials, police, jury. And they wasn't -- who's 00:10:00gonna investigate? Nobody. You can't -- you can't, uh -- you can't beat -- you can't beat money. Still up to today, you can't beat money, you see?

GEORGE STONEY: How do you feel about that, Bob?

BOB: There's a whole lot of truth in what he says. Um, you, you still find a great deal of, uh, anti-unionism in the South. Uh --

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah.

BOB: -- and I, I don't think that'll ever go away.

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.

BOB: Because the, uh -- the people do not want the unions here.

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.

BOB: The politicians don't want them here. Uh, no one wants them here except the -- a small group of people. (inaudible) so, therefore, everybody is gonna do what they can to fight against them.

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.

ERNEST MOORE: Don't you think the majority of the mill workers find out what the -- (inaudible) on strike in different, different places, they're uneasy and scared of the union, afraid to lose their jobs. That's what -- that was our biggest trouble. Uh, everybody -- they said, well, if we belong to a union, 00:11:00we'll be discriminate -- we'll lose our jobs. And you agreed on that, in a certain sense?

BOB: I -- I'm -- I, I agree with a lot of people are afraid, yeah.

ERNEST MOORE: Yeah, afraid.

BOB: Yeah.

ERNEST MOORE: That, that, that's what re-- in the South, (inaudible). They're uneasy. What the -- what the -- now, (inaudible). Who puts on that pressure? Manufacturers, manufacturers. Yeah, like, Miss Wiggins was shot. Who done that? Mill owners. Who organized the 100? The mill owners. See? And, uh, ordinary -- most of the time, they had a pretty good job at the company. Well, I know -- I know the fellows was in there. Um, (inaudible), you see? My wife knows him. He was the bookkeeper at the Myrtle Mill -- Ruby? Went to Myrtle Mill, he was the bookkeeper.

RUBY MOORE: (inaudible).

ERNEST MOORE: [Johnny?] -- Johnny [Price?]. Wasn't Johnny Price the bookkeeper?

RUBY MOORE: (inaudible).

ERNEST MOORE: Huh? Come here.

RUBY MOORE: (inaudible).

ERNEST MOORE: (inaudible), he's was the bookkeeper.

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.

ERNEST MOORE: So he -- if you're a bookkeeper, got a nice job, you can't -- you can't be in a union, no.

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

ERNEST MOORE: You can be a union fighter, you see? Uh, that's what -- that's what fights a union --

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.

ERNEST MOORE: -- when they come to -- any, any industry, you see. They use people like that, that -- just like Johnny Price.

BOB: Well, I -- let me says this in, in, in a certain amount of defense. Uh, with, with my father, before he came to work for this company -- for the (inaudible) Company, before that, uh, he actually worked in, in, uh, logging operations in West Virginia,. And he said he saw what happened to people, uh, there, with the -- with the strikes and all. And he said that turned him again-- I -- because I asked him the question. I said, why are you so against 00:13:00unions. And, and he told me, "It was because of what I saw in West Virginia.

ERNEST MOORE: (inaudible) discriminate against him. It, it's hard.

BOB: He said there were a lot of people killed unnecessarily --

ERNEST MOORE: Yeah

BOB: -- on both sides. And he said if the union hadn't came, problem wouldn't have been there.

GEORGE STONEY: OK, let's go down and, and --

ERNEST MOORE: (overlapping dialogue; inaudible).

(break in video)

GEORGE STONEY: Bob, these photographs --

BOB: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE STONEY: -- are from the Bettmann Archives. And we don't have the negatives to them, but what we can do when we get back -- I'll just get your name and so forth -- is that we can -- we can give you -- privately, we can give you some prints of these.

BOB: Oh, OK.

GEORGE STONEY: We can't do it s-- you know.

BOB: I would love (overlapping dialogue; inaudible).

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah, sure, yeah. OK. I'll go over them in a few min—

[Silence]

[Silence]

(break in video)

GEORGE STONEY: Turn the camera a little bit.

JAMIE STONEY: Turn it sideways?

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah, that's right. (overlapping dialogue; inaudible)

HELFAND: Yeah, I'm just gonna get it. (inaudible)

JAMIE STONEY: (inaudible).

HELFAND: (inaudible), look at me.

JAMIE STONEY: (inaudible).

GEORGE STONEY: (inaudible).

JAMIE STONEY: (inaudible).

HELFAND: (inaudible).

JAMIE STONEY: Huh?

GEORGE STONEY: (inaudible).

JAMIE STONEY: (inaudible) just got to come (inaudible).

(break in video)

HELFAND: (inaudible).

GEORGE STONEY: (overlapping dialogue; inaudible).

(break in video) GEORGE STONEY: (inaudible) in there (overlapping dialogue; inaudible).

ERNEST MOORE: That's a workman (inaudible).

BOB: Yeah, (inaudible).

HELFAND: (inaudible) just walk right by us. (inaudible)

ERNEST MOORE: I guess we'll turn our badges back in.

BOB: Yes, (inaudible). So are you gonna follow us where we're going?

JAMIE STONEY: OK.

GEORGE STONEY: What kind of car do you have?

BOB: I've got a yellow pickup truck.

GEORGE STONEY: OK.

HELFAND: (inaudible) yellow one. This one?

(break in video)

[Silence]

[Silence]

GEORGE STONEY: What village is that?

RUBY MOORE: Uh, this was the (inaudible). And we're going into [Franklin?] Avenue now.

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.

RUBY MOORE: And, uh, this is what -- used to be the Gray -- G-R-A-Y -- Gray (inaudible) Village. GEORGE STONEY: Oh, yes. Yeah, mm-hmm.

RUBY MOORE: That -- um, there is is.

GEORGE STONEY: Well, again, we will want to get both Parkdale and Gray Village, yes.

RUBY MOORE: (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) well, and Parkdale is over (overlapping dialogue; inaudible).

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah. That's the mill over there, yeah.

RUBY MOORE: Yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: Good. We talked to [Jake?] Gray, the fellow who owned that mill.

RUBY MOORE: Yeah, uh-huh. Yeah, (inaudible).

GEORGE STONEY: So we wanted to get that -- some of that village.

RUBY MOORE: Yeah, because that's (inaudible) the church there, Parkdale.

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.

RUBY MOORE: (inaudible). And you -- you'd have to go all down through there to get the -- into the village.

GEORGE STONEY: But that was Parkdale Village, also on --

RUBY MOORE: (overlapping dialogue; inaudible).

GEORGE STONEY: But what of -- on the other side there, where we just came down?

RUBY MOORE: On the other -- on the -- back on that side?

GEORGE STONEY: No, (inaudible).

RUBY MOORE: Parkdale is on this side. Uh, Gray Mill's on this side.

(break in video)

GEORGE STONEY: (inaudible) say, so that -- when we first came down from the restaurant?

RUBY MOORE: Oh, yeah, yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: That was Gray?

RUBY MOORE: Mm-hmm, yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: Was that the Gray M-- uh, Village?

RUBY MOORE: Uh, the Gray is over on the -- on, on your, uh, left.

GEORGE STONEY: Left, OK.

ERNEST MOORE: Mm-hmm.

RUBY MOORE: And Parkdale (inaudible) on the right.

GEORGE STONEY: And it was the Gray and then, the Park on the right.

RUBY MOORE: Yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah, OK. We'll do that then.

RUBY MOORE: I used to -- they used to call this Loray, on down through there.

GEORGE STONEY: Hm?

RUBY MOORE: Loray.

ERNEST MOORE: You know what this was, don't you? (inaudible) corner.

RUBY MOORE: No, I (inaudible) -- on down through there, (inaudible). Here's 00:25:00the -- a barbecue place. Now it's, it's a real good --

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.

RUBY MOORE: -- barbecue place, (inaudible). This is a real nice [florist?] here, and (inaudible) been here for years. And it's a real nice (inaudible).

ERNEST MOORE: The building's down, Ruby.

RUBY MOORE: Huh?

ERNEST MOORE: The building's down. There was a --

RUBY MOORE: Yeah.

ERNEST MOORE: -- building right there. Then in 1929, that's where Beal had his headquarters, right here.

RUBY MOORE: Right here, or there?

ERNEST MOORE: Yeah, right there.

RUBY MOORE: Right there?

ERNEST MOORE: Yeah, and that's when Aderholt -- see the police come out here, and they shot him. They shot him here in the street, right here, about -- just right about where we're sitting here.

RUBY MOORE: (inaudible).

ERNEST MOORE: They shot the chief of [Gastonia?].

HELFAND: Can you w--

ERNEST MOORE: That building's down.

GEORGE STONEY: Hold it just a moment.

HELFAND: Let's stop. Let's stop. Do me a favor. Stop the car. Undo your seatbelt for just a moment, and tell us that story again. Because it's right on the microphone.

JAMIE STONEY: Your seatbelt is pressing on the microphone.

HELFAND: Yeah, so...

JAMIE STONEY: We just want you to take it off while you tell us the story.

ERNEST MOORE: You want me to (inaudible) in here?

JAMIE STONEY: No, you can just -- well, actually, you can just put it in park for a minute here, and we'll be fine.

HELFAND: Yeah.

JAMIE STONEY: I don't think --

RUBY MOORE: (inaudible) in the van, he don't know what to think. (laughs)

JAMIE STONEY: Oh, there you go.

RUBY MOORE: He may not like you taking a picture of his house.

HELFAND: (inaudible).

JAMIE STONEY: Well, just --

ERNEST MOORE: Back in '29 --

RUBY MOORE: He may not like that.

ERNEST MOORE: -- uh, the Communists --

HELFAND: Could he -- could he turn the car off?

JAMIE STONEY: (inaudible).

ERNEST MOORE: -- Textile Workers -- the Communists organized the mills, and there was a building right there. I don't know whether it was brick or block or what, but that was their headquarters. And the chief, detectives, they come over here to run them out or bust them up, and they shot the -- they shot everybody here. That's wh-- I believe I'll go out there and explain to that fellow what's going on.

GEORGE STONEY: OK, let's do that.

ERNEST MOORE: Huh?

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah.

JAMIE STONEY: (inaudible) let him go, rather than us go.

RUBY MOORE: I think (overlapping dialogue; inaudible).

GEORGE STONEY: What?

JAMIE STONEY: I don't think it would be help--

HELFAND: So that would be great if you could explain to him.

JAMIE STONEY: I think it's a good idea if you explain to him what we're doing.

GEORGE STONEY: Sure. Yeah, we'll all get out.

ERNEST MOORE: Yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: Or he came come over. Ask him to come over.

HELFAND: Let him get out. Let him go. (overlapping dialogue; inaudible).

GEORGE STONEY: OK, OK, yeah. Yeah, OK.

RUBY MOORE: I know I would, if somebody stopped in front of my house and start--

GEORGE STONEY: Can you hear?

HELFAND: Shit.

JAMIE STONEY: Just relax Judy.

HELFAND: (inaudible). It's all messed up.

JAMIE STONEY: Just don't worry about it.

GEORGE STONEY: It's messed up here, right?

(break in audio)

GEORGE STONEY: Sure, all right. Thank you.

ERNEST MOORE: He -- he'd been born back then.

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah, that's, that's (overlapping dialogue; inaudible). But, uh --

ERNEST MOORE: He, he'd been (overlapping dialogue; inaudible).

GEORGE STONEY: No, uh, for some reason, Judy was getting some, some hiss and static on your thing.

ERNEST MOORE: (inaudible).

GEORGE STONEY: So, uh -- so she'll come over and fix that, uh, and, and then we'll, we'll do it.

ERNEST MOORE: Yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah. Yeah.

M1: Let me -- wait just a second.

GEORGE STONEY: OK.

M1: (inaudible) back out.

(break in audio)

ERNEST MOORE: The reason we stopped here --

HELFAND: Can we do it out --

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah, go ahead.

JAMIE STONEY: Yeah.

ERNEST MOORE: The reason we stopped here, they wanted to kind of get the history of this location. There used to be a, a building sitting here. And I don't know whether it was brick or block -- a (inaudible) building. In nineteen-and-twenty-nine, the fellow Beal come to Gastonia, organized textile workers, but it was a Communist organization -- Russian, trying to get this country organized. And they organized Loray, Loray Mill -- old Loray Mill. And, uh, that's where Beal and some of his followers -- he had (inaudible). 00:30:00Had a meeting, and the chief of Gastonia come down here with some of his cops to run them out or bust them up. And, uh, they shot him. (inaudible) the building, Beal or I don't know who done the shooting, but they killed the chief in the street.

M1: (inaudible)?

ERNEST MOORE: They just wanted to, you know -- getting the -- getting the history of it -- the history. We've been to -- we just been over to Firestone - we went through the Firestone Mill there. And he, he talked to some of them over there, mill officials. That's what he -- we went up -- right on the third floor, wasn't it? Third floor. Went around --

GEORGE STONEY: Do you know anything about this?

M1: (inaudible).

ERNEST MOORE: No, he, he said he wasn't born.

M1: She probably could. My mother here could probably --

GEORGE STONEY: Uh-huh.

M1: -- tell you more about the cotton mills back in '29 than I could.

F1: (inaudible) wasn't but nine years old. How would I know anything (inaudible)?

ERNEST MOORE: You was young. Yeah, you was young.

F1: I was born in nineteen-(inaudible).

ERNEST MOORE: (inaudible).

GEORGE STONEY: Do you remember back in 1934, when there was a big strike here?

F1: All I remember is that there was guns (inaudible).

GEORGE STONEY: What happened here?

F1: I don't know. I, I wasn't that old enough to (inaudible).

GEORGE STONEY: Well, Mr. Moore's father was the president of the union over in the Groves. So he --

F1: I can remember my mother and daddy saying there was a lot of trouble.

GEORGE STONEY: Uh-huh.

ERNEST MOORE: Oh, yeah, uh-huh.

F1: (inaudible).

ERNEST MOORE: Yeah, did you see the National Guards come in --

F1: Yeah.

ERNEST MOORE: -- (inaudible) and open them up.

F1: Used to be another one -- there used to be the old Loray Mill.

ERNEST MOORE: Yeah, old Loray Mill, yeah --

F1: Uh-huh.

ERNEST MOORE: -- over on the hill.

F1: (inaudible).

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah.

ERNEST MOORE: My daddy was a local at the Groves Mill. He was the president of 00:32:00our local then, uh, when the strike -- general strike was --

F1: Well, as far that, I, I don't know nothing about that.

GEORGE STONEY: Uh-huh, yeah.

F1: I, I can just remember hearing people talk.

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah.

ERNEST MOORE: Yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.

F1: I had a lot of aunts and uncles (inaudible).

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.

F1: And, uh, they (inaudible) and they -- something they'd (inaudible) and a lot of houses caught on fire and burned (inaudible). I, I can't (inaudible).

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah, uh-huh.

F1: (inaudible).

GEORGE STONEY: (laughs) Yeah, sure. OK.

HELFAND: So what happened at this spot? What happened at this spot?

ERNEST MOORE: Well, I don't know. They blew the building. There used to be a building here -- a long building. And that's where the -- in '29, that's where Beal, the organizer, had his headquarters here. This chief of --

F1: You mean on this lot here?

ERNEST MOORE: Yeah, uh-huh, yeah.

F1: Oh.

ERNEST MOORE: And, uh, the chief -- Gastonia police chief come (inaudible) take 00:33:00him out to run them out or bust them up. Or the -- or that's what they thought. And they shot him out here in the street, and they killed, killed the chief.

F1: (inaudible).

GEORGE STONEY: Hm.

F1: I didn't know -- (inaudible). I know the chief of police.

ERNEST MOORE: That's in '29.

F1: Oh, I heard of one, a long time ago. I don't know how old I was. Wasn't he a [Widener?] -- Chief Widener or something like that? Wasn't that his name, the police?

ERNEST MOORE: Aderholt, wasn't it?

F1: I don't really know. I just --

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.

F1: -- know -- I heard my daddy say something about a police by the name of Widener.

ERNEST MOORE: (inaudible).

F1: Said he was a great, big, old, tall, slim man. Other than that, I don't (inaudible).

GEORGE STONEY: Well, well, Ernest, uh, when your father -- you and your father were in the union, was there any k-- any kind of shooting over at the Grove?

ERNEST MOORE: Oh, no, no, no. No, no. No, that was handled peaceful. We just 00:34:00closed them down, called the strike out. It was peaceful.

GEORGE STONEY: How did you manage to keep it peaceful?

ERNEST MOORE: Well, the, the strikers, strikers, they was peaceful. Didn't try to cause no trouble, trouble. Wanted, wanted to go back to work. Why -- they didn't give them no trouble. So, there was -- it, it was on -- it wasn't -- uh, we didn't have no trouble.

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm. Do you think that this -- uh, the fact that you had all this trouble here in '29 with the Communists, and killing the chief of police, and so forth -- did that any effect on what happened in '34?

ERNEST MOORE: Oh, yeah, yeah. People -- there's -- some of us are uneasy, as afraid of the union. They, uh, realized what the mill officials -- the owners -- officials -- they knowed they'd make it hard on them if they belonged a 00:35:00union, and afraid to lose their job. (inaudible) went on strike, that, that kind of give the organization a black eye.

GEORGE STONEY: Good, thank you.

ERNEST MOORE: Yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: Thank you very much.

F1: You're welcome.

ERNEST MOORE: Now this is gonna be -- uh, you might get to see part of this on your TV some one of these days.

F1: Not me. On the TV?

ERNEST MOORE: Yeah, he might do it.

F1: Oh, (inaudible). (laughter)

GEORGE STONEY: It'll be a long time.

ERNEST MOORE: It'll be a long time, till --

GEORGE STONEY: OK, thank you.

ERNEST MOORE: -- (inaudible) the old building (inaudible). I, I imagine it's been down for years. That's --

F1: And now, this house has been through --

M1: This house is --

F1: -- about three or four generations --

GEORGE STONEY: Hm.

F1: -- of [Dowds?].

ERNEST MOORE: Well, it could -- it could have been right here -- the street (inaudible). Now how old is that house?

M1: Oh --

F1: (inaudible) it's pretty old. This house burnt down, and it was rebuilt.

M1: -- (inaudible).

ERNEST MOORE: Uh-huh, yeah.

M1: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm. OK. Thank you.

ERNEST MOORE: Yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: Thank you very much.

F1: You're welcome.

JAMIE STONEY: Thank you very much, ma'am.

(break in video)

HELFAND: This is going mighty fast.

RUBY STONEY: Mm-hmm.

HELFAND: Do you want him to slow down a little?

RUBY MOORE: (inaudible), slow down a little bit. Don't go so fast, dear.

ERNEST MOORE: (overlapping dialogue; inaudible).

GEORGE STONEY: No, no. No, it is fine.

ERNEST MOORE: Don't tell him...

RUBY MOORE: See our town? You can see it pretty good from here.

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.

RUBY MOORE: (inaudible) is a pretty nice little town.

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.

HELFAND: Ernest, could you talk for us a moment?

JAMIE STONEY: She just wants to test your microphone.

RUBY MOORE: Ernest, tell them about that railroad being down there. That's a railroad down in that (overlapping dialogue; inaudible).

ERNEST MOORE: (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) several years.

ERNEST MOORE: A railroad used to be on up, and a freight train would come 00:38:00through. You'd take a big, long freight train. It'd take so long it -- uh, traffic gets jammed up. And the depot used to be (inaudible) right over here. (inaudible). They called it number four, I mean, the (inaudible) project. It took them for years to build what's called a ditch now. But they didn't build it early enough, (inaudible) all the stores went out to the shopping centers. So kind of left our little town pretty barren.

RUBY MOORE: (inaudible).

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah, mm-hmm, I see.

RUBY MOORE: They say that's the only place anywhere that's got that deep (inaudible).

GEORGE STONEY: (inaudible), putting, putting the bed down.

RUBY MOORE: Uh-uh.

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah. Makes sense.

RUBY MOORE: Ernest, you're not going down Main Street?

ERNEST MOORE: Huh? You want to go down Main Street?

RUBY MOORE: I had -- well, I thought you said you was going down Main Street.

ERNEST MOORE: Oh, well, I -- we'll, we'll, we'll (inaudible).

RUBY MOORE: Right here, you better (inaudible). Didn't you want to? You mentioned something about that.

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah, that's right, right. We're going into --

ERNEST MOORE: (inaudible).

GEORGE STONEY: We're going into Gastonia, down --

RUBY MOORE: (inaudible), Gastonia, Main Street.

GEORGE STONEY: -- the Main Street.

RUBY MOORE: This is the main drag, we call it.

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.

RUBY MOORE: Because this is pretty much where it ends.

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.

RUBY MOORE: Because there was the old depot.

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.

RUBY MOORE: (inaudible). This is a pretty nice little town, huh?

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.

RUBY MOORE: (inaudible). Well, Ernest, where are you going to?

ERNEST MOORE: (inaudible).

JAMIE STONEY: Main Street is one way the wrong way. This (inaudible).

ERNEST MOORE: They got a (inaudible) and they (inaudible) recreation building right there.

RUBY MOORE: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.

ERNEST MOORE: (inaudible).

RUBY MOORE: Yeah, yeah. Well, we've come --

ERNEST MOORE: (inaudible).

RUBY MOORE: (inaudible) a lot.

ERNEST MOORE: That's his name.

RUBY MOORE: Yes, sir, (inaudible), right there. (inaudible). Yes, First Methodist Church. That's where they -- that ha-- they had that weekly square dance. This is, uh --

ERNEST MOORE: City Hall.

RUBY MOORE: That's the City Hall. This is the First Baptist Church.

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.

RUBY MOORE: The courthouse is right above the City Hall.

ERNEST MOORE: The courthouse is right up the street there.

RUBY MOORE: This is the Episcopal church. There's, um, social services. This is our post office here.

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.

ERNEST MOORE: (inaudible), Labor Day, when there's a march in here, they, they m-- mostly made up right here, this corner, and the next, next block down there. 00:42:00They (inaudible) made up right in here and march down this street here. (inaudible) sidewalks. It's a two-way street then.

RUBY MOORE: This is the street where I used to work.

ERNEST MOORE: And when they put these wide sidewalks on it, they made a one-way street out of it.

RUBY MOORE: This is the bank here. It's one of the larger banks. You see this [Marsh Jewelers?] right on the corner?

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.

ERNEST MOORE: And we marched right up the street here.

RUBY MOORE: I worked there for 15 years.

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.

HELFAND: What were you saying about that parade?

JAMIE STONEY: You marched right up the street here?

RUBY MOORE: Right, right up to --

ERNEST MOORE: Yeah, this is where we'll march, right up -- right in this place.

HELFAND: Can we get his face? Did you say you marched right up here?

RUBY MOORE: Mm-hmm.

ERNEST MOORE: Yeah, we marched right here.

HELFAND: (inaudible).

ERNEST MOORE: Of course, it was a different-looking street back then. It's a two way street, (inaudible) park on each side.

HELFAND: (inaudible).

GEORGE STONEY: Back then, was this a paved road? Was it --

ERNEST MOORE: Yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: All this was paved?

ERNEST MOORE: Oh, yeah. Street -- we had streets back then.

HELFAND: Are you gonna get him to park so we can walk?

GEORGE STONEY: Let's go around one more time.

ERNEST MOORE: All right.

[Silence]

[Silence]

HELFAND: (inaudible). Can we park?

GEORGE STONEY: After we make this run.

JAMIE STONEY: Want me to look forward on this, or (inaudible)?

GEORGE STONEY: After we make this run, he'll tell us about it.

JAMIE STONEY: Yeah, this run.

HELFAND: Yeah, right, he wants to know --

JAMIE STONEY: Excuse me.

HELFAND: -- do you want to be on him, or on the street?

JAMIE STONEY: Yeah, this way or this way, (inaudible)?

GEORGE STONEY: Uh, you -- did you -- uh, did you get enough on him (inaudible)?

JAMIE STONEY: I'll do both, (inaudible).

GEORGE STONEY: Well, let's stay on, on him.

JAMIE STONEY: OK.

HELFAND: We could always (inaudible).

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah.

JAMIE STONEY: Next time, we let Judy drive the truck. She likes to drive.

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah.

HELFAND: Want him to drive slower?

GEORGE STONEY: OK, uh, a little slower. And just tell us about the parade.

ERNEST MOORE: Well, uh, the parade -- the marchers started right back there on the next block. That's where they (inaudible) getting together and, and they marched up, up the street, just where we were driving.

GEORGE STONEY: What do you remember about that day?

ERNEST MOORE: Well, it's hard to remember everything, but... Marchers, they was -- them -- some of them was -- they, they were singing. We had music. I f-- I don't remember how many locals was in the parade, but it's -- most of them -- all of them was out of Gaston County. Most of them were Gastonia.

GEORGE STONEY: Your father and your brothers here? Tell us about that.

ERNEST MOORE: Uh, Daddy -- well, he was, uh, our local president. And, he was right up front, was (inaudible). But it (inaudible) up, up Main Street here. Most of -- most of the strike we were feeling pretty good along about right then, because the strike was just getting started. We really didn't know what was coming.

GEORGE STONEY: OK, I want you to go over here and park now.

ERNEST MOORE: Over here and park?

GEORGE STONEY: I'm sorry. Uh --

ERNEST MOORE: Where do you want to...?

GEORGE STONEY: We want to go back into the village and -- uh, uh, back into the city -- uh, the town. And, uh, want to get a couple of shots, uh, of, outside the car.

ERNEST MOORE: All right. Depot. They're used to be a -- two trolley cars together --

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.

ERNEST MOORE: -- up from here to Charlotte. And this was the old freight depot, right there. They have the tracks run about every plant around Gastonia. They carried a lot of supplies, and yarn. They're shipping all...

GEORGE STONEY: Then with those trolley cars, people didn't have to have cars of their own?

ERNEST MOORE: No, it'd take you right up into Charlotte, right on Main Street. And we had one streetcar, would go to East Gastonia, and one went to West Gastonia. And that -- I'll, I'll show you the street where they -- where all of them -- took you right up to Main Street.

RUBY MOORE: There's, there's [Tony's?].

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.

RUBY MOORE: (inaudible). Well, you knew where it was.

ERNEST MOORE: The, the Charlotte trolley, it went right, right in the middle of this street here.

GEORGE STONEY: And you could ride all the way from here to Charlotte on the streetcar?

RUBY MOORE: Yeah, (overlapping dialogue; inaudible).

ERNEST MOORE: Yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: What did --

ERNEST MOORE: Forty, 40 cents.

GEORGE STONEY: Forty cents?

ERNEST MOORE: Forty cents. I know after we got married, we'd, we'd go up and shop on Saturday. (inaudible) right up on Main Street there in Charlotte.

GEORGE STONEY: When did you get your first car?

ERNEST MOORE: After we married, or when?

RUBY MOORE: Mm-hmm. Well --

ERNEST MOORE: After we were married?

RUBY MOORE: After we was married.

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah.

RUBY MOORE: Yeah.

ERNEST MOORE: Oh, I don't know. I done -- we would have been married a few years, but my first car was a '33 Chevrolet, second-handed. And, uh, I bought it at the Chevrolet place. The salesman guaranteed it, but I didn't have nothing to show for it. I took the salesman's word anything wrong with it, they'd fix it free of tr-- charge. And it drunk oil. (laughter) First two weeks, it didn't have no brakes on it. I take it back to the Chevrolet place. 00:52:00Salesman said, "Oh, yeah, we'll, we'll put you new brakes on it." I come up, get my Chevrolet. They had me charged with bad axle. So I paid for that (inaudible) brakes. See how the -- see how the dealer does? (laughter) I didn't -- they didn't -- they didn't give me no (inaudible). They wouldn't -- they wouldn't do nothing about the drinking oil, so I sold it. And I promised the good lord then I'd never buy a second-handed automobile (inaudible). (laughter)

HELFAND: That makes sense.

ERNEST MOORE: But I may buy one.

GEORGE STONEY: OK, we want to find a place to park now.

HELFAND: You know, I can just say he points out his father in the footage, and 00:53:00then we cut to -- we (inaudible) a dissolve to him pointing down the street.

GEORGE STONEY: Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

HELFAND: Be great.

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah. OK, anyplace you can find to park, we got to stop. No place here.

RUBY MOORE: (inaudible) maybe you will.

ERNEST MOORE: Huh?

RUBY MOORE: Not this time of day.

ERNEST MOORE: (inaudible), I, I can go right behind this building and park.

GEORGE STONEY: All right, fine, we'll do that.

ERNEST MOORE: (inaudible).

GEORGE STONEY: Sure, that'll do that.

ERNEST MOORE: Now (inaudible). They trolley cars went to Charlotte, and they'd -- it'd come down and turn up that street and come up here and park right there --

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.

ERNEST MOORE: -- right on back where they'd park. The Charlotte car and, uh, the two cars that -- trolleys run to Gastonia.

RUBY MOORE: See (overlapping dialogue; inaudible).

GEORGE STONEY: Here's a parking place right here, maybe.

ERNEST MOORE: Mm-hmm, yeah. Now I ain't no good parking now. Used to, I could park good.

JAMIE STONEY: Something this big, you just have to touch park.

ERNEST MOORE: Back then, (inaudible).

JAMIE STONEY: Watch -- somebody watch in back.

ERNEST MOORE: (inaudible).

GEORGE STONEY: Oh, you're fine.

ERNEST MOORE: (overlapping dialogue; inaudible).

RUBY MOORE: No, you can come on back, less.

ERNEST MOORE: (inaudible) now?

GEORGE STONEY: Plenty of room.

ERNEST MOORE: Cut deep?

RUBY MOORE: Well, it's kind of hard to tell whether --

GEORGE STONEY: Now you can cut. Now you can cut, yeah.

ERNEST MOORE: Mm-hmm. Wait a minute, I want to do it again.

(break in video)

GEORGE STONEY: -- photograph.

M2: Oh, OK.

ERNEST MOORE: (overlapping dialogue; inaudible).

GEORGE STONEY: His daddy was in this parade, yeah.

RUBY MOORE: Uh-huh.

HELFAND: Yeah, (overlapping dialogue; inaudible).

GEORGE STONEY: So we're going down to say the -- to match it now.

M2: OK.

HELFAND: Tell him about the parade, huh?

GEORGE STONEY: Well, this was a La-- big Labor Day parade in 1934. You seen anything like that before?

M2: No, sir, not in Gastonia.

GEORGE STONEY: Do they have Labor Day parades here now?

M2: Uh, no sir.

GEORGE STONEY: No, see, that's --

M3: (inaudible) that's Downtown Gastonia back then.

RUBY MOORE: They did then. Uh-huh, that is.

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah, yeah. You recognize the buildings then?

M2: Yes, there's Woolworth. That's just right here.

M3: Where's this building at, right here?

M2: That's -- it'd be right on this end -- this side -- this way.

M3: Yeah.

M2: There's Woolworth. And that's just right up here.

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah. OK.

M2: All right?

GEORGE STONEY: Take care. M2: All right, you all have a good day.

GEORGE STONEY: Thank you. I th-- I think they're wrong. (laughs) I think, uh --

JAMIE STONEY: (inaudible).

GEORGE STONEY: Oh, no, no, they, they're right.

JAMIE STONEY: Yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: They're right, yeah.

RUBY MOORE: There it is. Behind you.

GEORGE STONEY: (laughs) Yeah. Uh, let's see -- let's see if we can match this now. You show me where your father was, and then where all these buildings are.

ERNEST MOORE: Uh --

RUBY MOORE: (inaudible) Ernest, now, (inaudible) right up here is your light, where that, that light is. You know, it used to be up there where the -- right across from Marsh Jewelers.

ERNEST MOORE: Mm-hmm.

RUBY MOORE: That's where that light was.

ERNEST MOORE: See, this, this is (inaudible).

GEORGE STONEY: Uh-huh.

ERNEST MOORE: Right here.

RUBY MOORE: Yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah.

RUBY MOORE: They're not there anymore.

ERNEST MOORE: (inaudible) building.

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah.

ERNEST MOORE: [Matthew?] (inaudible). Here's the old post office, up here on the corner.

GEORGE STONEY: Uh-huh, yeah. And this is that big, tall building there. What's that building there?

ERNEST MOORE: That used to be a bank building, (inaudible) bank building.

GEORGE STONEY: Uh-huh.

ERNEST MOORE: Used to be a bank -- I reckon it was still -- no, I believe the bank's over here now.

GEORGE STONEY: But it's that big building -- big building?

ERNEST MOORE: Yeah, that -- that's that building, right, right here.

RUBY MOORE: It's still a bank. It's still a bank.

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah, uh-uh.

ERNEST MOORE: And the post office there.

RUBY MOORE: (overlapping dialogue; inaudible).

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.

ERNEST MOORE: He'll, he'll put -- they moved (inaudible) those buildings there.

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. So it -- could you tell us about your father coming here?

ERNEST MOORE: Well, when this picture was done -- this picture here, I believe he had done (inaudible).

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.

HELFAND: OK, one second. We're not running.

ERNEST MOORE: Yeah, had done (inauible) here. But he was up there in front.

HELFAND: Can you say that again, please?

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah.

ERNEST MOORE: My father, when he come down the street marching, he was -- he was up at the front of the parade, so he done (inaudible) when this picture was taken.

GEORGE STONEY: Did, uh -- was there -- were there any other Labor Day parades after that?

ERNEST MOORE: No, no, no more parades. No, uh-uh.

GEORGE STONEY; Where did this parade end up at?

ERNEST MOORE: We busted out here at the ma-- at the -- right there, at the last building. And that's when it started busting up, you see?

GEORGE STONEY: Uh-huh.

ERNEST MOORE: I mean, that -- we just paraded down Main Street.

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm. Now, we've got pictures of a great mass of people at, uh, what was called Municipal Park, or City Park. Where was that?

RUBY MOORE: That's (overlapping dialogue; inaudible).

ERNEST MOORE: City Park in Gastonia?

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah.

ERNEST MOORE: Uh, it's back here -- back here, off down -- uh, I don't know how many blocks back there.

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.

ERNEST MOORE: It's, it's still -- probably still down there.

GEORGE STONEY: Uh-huh. Did you remember going down to that --

ERNEST MOORE: No.

GEORGE STONEY -- big meeting?

ERNEST MOORE: No, no.

GEORGE STONEY: Uh-huh. You OK?

ERNEST MOORE: I don't think (inaudible) -- (coughs) -- don't think I went down there, though I could have, but I just don't --

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah, yeah.

ERNEST MOORE: -- don't remember.

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah, OK. OK, I think we've got a match. Uh, Jamie –-