Rose Slayton Interview 2

GEORGE STONEY: Here's a picture of her from the Charlotte paper. You know, it's in the Gastonia edition we saw those.

ROSE SLAYTON: Gaston Observer, yeah, yeah.

STONEY: Yeah. Yeah. There she is, when we were working together. This was a story about us that helped us find a lot of people.

SLAYTON: Yes. Kings Mountain. Lincolnton.

STONEY: Yeah. Yeah. So, we - and we had an 800 number here.

SLAYTON: Yeah.

STONEY: And lots and lots and lots of people called us then.

SLAYTON: George Stoney. Is that your name?

STONEY: That's my name. Yeah. And with Judy Helfand. And so they called us and we come here to find out about this.

JUDITH HELFAND: Can you be more specific, George? (inaudible)

SLAYTON: I heard him say something on television about Carowinds as being so – you know where that's at, don't you?

STONEY: Yeah. I'm not sure.

SLAYTON: Said something about making movies down there.

STONEY: That's right. There's going to be a big movie studio down there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

SLAYTON: I saw that. Saw that on TV.

STONEY: Well, we're making a documentary about textiles in the early '30s and the attempt of textile workers to speak for themselves and organize. And the Observer got interested and wrote this article about us. And so lots of people, then, have been calling up to say they would like to talk with us. I just thought you'd like to see. You were saying –

SLAYTON: Now, there's – it's hidden history, which is in the southern mills.

STONEY: You see, what they meant by "hidden history" is that you get the history of the manufacturers. You get the history of the people who own the mills. You get the pictures of their houses and all of that. But you almost 00:02:00never see history of the people who worked in the mills.

SLAYTON: And you know these houses used to didn't even have running water. Had it outside. No bathroom.

STONEY: So, what we're trying to do, you see, is to fill in, to complete the story.

SLAYTON: Yes. But you know most all the mills sold their houses. Like Parkdale Mill up here and (inaudible) Mill at Belmont. Remodel 'em, sell them. But they didn't do nothing to these, you know, when they sold them.

STONEY: So, you fixed up your own house?

SLAYTON: Yeah. You fixed up your own house. Of course, it's not fixed much.

STONEY: Looks beautiful to me. You were saying if you had your life to live over 00:03:00again, what would you do? Just start off and say that.

SLAYTON: Well, like I told you, I'd love to – always wanted a greenhouse. Then I'd want a good education. I'd want that, or I wouldn't have to work so hard when I was young. I would like to have a good education. And I'd love to have a good – nice home.

STONEY: Well, compared with most people, you're really – you're living very well.

SLAYTON: Now. Now. You see, my husband, he left me in pretty good shape. I can live the rest of my life, you know, peaceful. I don't think I'll have to 00:04:00want for anything. Then another thing. I'd want to live a good life. Of course, I've lived a good life. And I'd want, you know, the Lord to save me. And I'd want that.

STONEY: Well, religion was a big part of the living in a mill village, wasn't it?

SLAYTON: Well, I never did go to church down there. Always went to the Baptist. That's what my daddy was, and my sisters.

STONEY: Well, I know that Mr. Dilling was a Methodist –

SLAYTON: Yes.

STONEY: - and he built this church down here.

SLAYTON: Church. Yeah.

STONEY: But I noticed that there was a Baptist church up on the top of the hill.

SLAYTON: This one up here? I don't know about that. There's one right out yonder, [Fraley and Lamore?]. One over at Ranlo. And I've heard – you know, it's a Methodist over there. And I heard they got into – they wanted to build (inaudible). And old Mr. Dilling, he didn't like that. And he built this down here. That's the reason this is down here. But that Methodist church over there burned down one time. They moved it down the road and built down there.

STONEY: Well, then, when you were, when you were living here back in the '30s, was the Methodist church the only church in the village?

SLAYTON: Yeah. Only one.

STONEY: So, it was only Mr. Dilling's church that was here.

SLAYTON: Well, he's the one that run it. Let's put it that way. He run the church and he run the mill. That's the way it was. I just – hey. He was this 00:06:00– I think of overbearing somebody, dictator. But when they put that up in the mill over there about Hitler wouldn't come over here and Marshall Dilling – they said, "Lord, that made him so mad."

STONEY: What did they say?

SLAYTON: The war was going on. And somebody went and put it up on the bulletin board. Said Marshall – said Hitler wasn't coming over here for Marshall Dilling wouldn't let him. (laughter)

STONEY: Did he pick the preacher?

SLAYTON: Well, you know what? He's run off lots of preachers down here. He's run them off. He didn't like them. And I heard down there one time, this young man, [Ben?] Woods, he got up and this here preacher was preaching. Said he just 00:07:00got up and held his hands up and, "Praise the Lord." He says, "You sit down." Told him, "Sit down." So, he walked out and shook the dust off of his feet. You know, the Bible says that. Yeah. Yeah, he run that church.

HELFAND: What's that noise? Ask her what that noise is. What's that noise?

SLAYTON: Clock in there.

HELFAND: That's a wild sound.

SLAYTON: It is. It does that every hour and every half hour.

STONEY: Yeah. Yeah. Could you tell me about what happened in the church? You were saying? Because we just didn't hear it.

SLAYTON: Well, he just run the church. That's all. And he run the mill over here. And he wanted everybody that worked over here, and lived here, come down there. Of course, lots of them now – Russell Clary and them never did. They always went to Ranlo Baptist. 00:08:00They always went to Ranlo Baptist.

HELFAND: You know what? We have an airplane and a (inaudible)

STONEY: Yeah. OK. (interruption) –up on you.

SLAYTON: New Orleans Four.

STONEY: Yeah. That's right. Yeah. After all that work.

SLAYTON: Yes.

HELFAND: So, what are you going to do with those tomatoes?

SLAYTON: Over here? I'll eat them. Then, I may give them to the neighbors, you know? I may find somebody.

STONEY: Well, I think I'm going to have to ask for this pound cake.

SLAYTON: Yeah. But I was sitting in yonder sewing, and I forgot the timer. Come in here and the top is – got too brown. But it still tastes pretty good.

STONEY: OK. Let me see.

SLAYTON: Isn't it awful when you have something wrong with your leg? Here, cut you a piece.

STONEY: OK. Judy?

HELFAND: Yes.

STONEY: Should I cut you a piece, too?

HELFAND: Sure.

STONEY: OK.

HELFAND: Actually, no. I want Rose to cut me a piece.

STONEY: OK.

HELFAND: George, you sit.

STONEY: OK.

SLAYTON: Yeah. I made it, but I come in here. I said, "Lord have mercy." (inaudible) and do that.

STONEY: OK.

SLAYTON: Cut him a piece.

STONEY: OK. I'll put a piece over there. Maybe you – and you want –

SLAYTON: That piece.

STONEY: OK. And you'll cut your piece for yourself?

SLAYTON: No. See, I'm kind of on a strict diet. I mostly made that for my daughter. But I made her favorite. I said, "Well, they'd eat it anyhow."

HELFAND: Do you have any milk? Milk?

SLAYTON: You don't put milk in that. You use sour cream.

HELFAND: Oh. You need a fork?

STONEY: No, I can eat it like this.

SLAYTON: I got a –

STONEY: No, this is fine. Good taste.

SLAYTON: You want something to drink?

STONEY: Thank you. Thank you. Delicious cake. That sour cream, I guess, is what gives it this texture.

SLAYTON: Yes. You want a Coke?

STONEY: That'd be fine. Thank you.

SLAYTON: I don't believe that's no diet.

STONEY: No, it's a classic. Thank you.

SLAYTON: Straw? You want a straw?

STONEY: No, I don't need a straw.

SLAYTON: I use a straw.

STONEY: No, this is fine. Thank you.

SLAYTON: You want some, don't you? To drink?

HELFAND: Oh, maybe a glass of milk, maybe.

SLAYTON: Milk?

HELFAND: You got any? Soda's fine. Coke's OK. Sure.

SLAYTON: When will you all finally get this complete?

STONEY: It'll be, oh, nine months to a year.

SLAYTON: I won't be here.

STONEY: What do you mean?

SLAYTON: I won't be here.

STONEY: Well, how old are you?

SLAYTON: I'm soon to be eighty. Eighty. I'll be eighty, 10th of September.

STONEY: Well, that's just a chicken compared with some of the people we've been talking with.

HELFAND: Tell her how – tell her why we were so interested to come to Smyre's.

SLAYTON: Here's a Pepsi. I have a Pepsi and a Coke.

HELFAND: Pepsi's good.

STONEY: Why don't you take half of this?

HELFAND: OK. That's even better.

STONEY: I think that's better.

HELFAND: Sure.

STONEY: Just take half of that.

SLAYTON: You know, them bottles of Cokes is the best. I haven't drank one in seventeen years, since I found that out that I had the diabet - had diabetes. I drink a diet.

STONEY: You drink diet? Yeah. That's too bad. It does taste different.

SLAYTON: Yeah. And my granddaughter – she won't drink a diet because the way it tasted. I said, "Well, after you drink it for years, you don't pay it no attention." And I drink tea, good bit of tea.

STONEY: Well, that little store up there, that must have been the place where 00:14:00you went up to get penny candy and so forth –

SLAYTON: Yeah. And that's where everybody bought their groceries. They bought it, you know, up there. Buy your groceries all week. Then we would go back up there and pay at the last of the week.

STONEY: So you charged stuff there?

SLAYTON: Yeah. If you had a pretty good credit, you would pay. But if you didn't pay, Mr. [Jaffee?] would have prorated it. That's one thing my husband told me before he passed away. He said, "Now, Rose, you be sure and pay my doctor bills and my hospital bills. Medicare don't pay." He said, "You be sure." And I said, "Well, you know I will."

HELFAND: You know what's so interesting about listening to Rose is that she's so honest. Most of the people we talk to, they never say what they 00:15:00didn't like – that they ever didn't like their communit- I mean, that they didn't like some of the stuff in the mill village.

SLAYTON: I don't know. I just never did go with lots of people. I had some friends, but just to get out and mingle with them, I don't want to do that. And I don't know many here now. I don't know many of them. So many people's moved off.

STONEY: Were there kind of cliques and people who had different kind of social levels in the village?

SLAYTON: No. About all the same.

STONEY: We went to a –

SLAYTON: You know, when you buy furniture, they come every week. And you couldn't pay but about fifty cents a week. A dollar was a whole lot. A dollar 00:16:00was a whole lot.

STONEY: What happened if you couldn't pay for your furniture?

SLAYTON: I don't know. We nev- always paid for it. Well, you didn't have much. That's it. You didn't have much. Wasn't no refrigerators back then.

STONEY: What'd you do?

SLAYTON: We had a – I had a box like that over there, but you put ice up in the top. The ice man would come along every morning. And he'd put your ice in. It was just like that there, but you'd put ice in the top.

STONEY: We had one very much like that on the back porch in my house in Winston-Salem. And you always had to remember to empty it out underneath.

SLAYTON: Yeah. But, you know, we had a hole in the floor. This is high at the back. And I put a bucket down in there and it would catch it. Then I'd put it 00:17:00on my flowers.

STONEY: So, you've had flowers all your life?

SLAYTON: Practically all my life. I used to have more. For the last two summers, I'm not – I can't get out. See, I can't be on this leg, this knee. And I can't get out and do like I used to.

STONEY: OK?

HELFAND: Yeah.

STONEY: I think that we want to go around and see your flowers now.

HELFAND: OK.

M1: Thirty seconds of time?

HELFAND: Sure.

SLAYTON: You know, this year, pampas grass – you've seen that?

STONEY: Yeah.

SLAYTON: But, you know, I'm trying to kill it out there in the backyard. I'm going to kill it out here in the front if I can. That stuff will cut you like a razor.

STONEY: I know. Yeah.

SLAYTON: I don't like it.

STONEY: It's so pretty, though.

SLAYTON: Yeah, it is. Oh, it was so –

STONEY: The way you've got it fixed up there, it is so nice. Yeah.

SLAYTON: Oh, that was so pretty. You know, whenever it looked like this year – big, old, long things, you know. I'll bet that thing had 25 or 30 on it. And back here, too.

STONEY: Blooms?

SLAYTON: Yeah. And I said, "I'm going to get (inaudible)." Or they'll cut you. And they'll go up your pants leg. Crawling up your pants legs, them leaves. That lady down there has got pretty flowers, too.

STONEY: OK?

M1: So, thirty seconds of time?

STONEY: Oh, yeah. Sorry. Thank you.

HELFAND: (inaudible)

M1: OK.

HELFAND: (inaudible)

M1: OK.

STONEY: One of the things we're trying to figure out is what happens to all of these people. You see, in the early '30s when the – after the Roosevelt 00:19:00administration came in, they organized a lot of workers.

SLAYTON: Yes.

STONEY: Here's a picture of a Labor Day parade in Gastonia. And you see who was at the head of the parade.

SLAYTON: That's at Ranlo.

STONEY: Mm-hmm.

SLAYTON: (inaudible) the old people. That's pitiful. (laughs) I wonder if – this was up here about the union, wasn't it?

STONEY: Mm-hmm.

SLAYTON: Mm-hmm. I think (inaudible). I don't know, but I don't see anybody.

STONEY: Well, here's another bunch. Same parade.

SLAYTON: I wonder who made these.

STONEY: These were made by news photographers of the time. And the reason they came to Gastonia was that in 1929, there was a great big strike.

SLAYTON: That was up here at the Loray.

STONEY: That's right. You remember that?

SLAYTON: Yeah, I remember that.

STONEY: What do you remember about that?

SLAYTON: I remember a woman got killed. And I remember Chief Aderholt. He was killed. I remember that.

STONEY: Well, the interesting thing is that everybody remembers that strike in '29, but very few people remember the much bigger strike in 1934 when all of the mills around here struck.

SLAYTON: Well, some did and some didn't. Some did and some didn't.

STONEY: Now, look at this, for example. Look at this crowd here. This is all a 00:21:00whole mass of people down in Lineberger Park.

SLAYTON: Yeah, you know that's right over yonder. We never was in nothing like this.

STONEY: See, a lot of people were.

SLAYTON: Yes. Then it didn't amount to nothing. And I heard this man tell last night about - said there's more textiles through here than any other place.

STONEY: This was a big – this was the textile center of the country.

SLAYTON: Yeah. Yeah.

STONEY: Yeah.

SLAYTON: Labor Day. Says right there's (inaudible).

STONEY: And here is – this is Albert Hinson who used to live in this house.

SLAYTON: That's him. That's Albert Hinson. Now, this was close to a mill, I believe.

STONEY: That is Parkdale Mill.

SLAYTON: It is? That's what I thought. Yeah, that's him.

STONEY: Does that make any more thoughts come into your mind about him?

SLAYTON: No. I'll tell you. We didn't go to them meetings. We didn't go to them back then.

HELFAND: Why not?

STONEY: Why didn't you go?

SLAYTON: We just didn't want to. Always afraid it might be trouble or 00:23:00something. I know Robert's brother went one time somewhere where it was a union meeting. And I know that night when he came in, he had his pants tore off of him. I remember that. But they didn't want unions in mills, hm-mm. And whenever they would them come over here, you know, and give out a leaflet, you better not go up there in that mill with that leaflet.

STONEY: What would happen to you?

SLAYTON: Well, they'd just finally work you out of a job. I know lots of people they fired. And I know Barney McKenzie over here at Belmont. He was kind of a, you know, something about the union. Lord, they fired him and he couldn't get a job nowhere in the mills. I remember that.

STONEY: How did that happen that he couldn't get a job?

SLAYTON: Well, see, the other mills, they didn't want union, either, you see. And the mill company, the men, they'd tell these other companies about it and they wouldn't hire him. They wouldn't hire him. Same way about the – what's the name of that? They make lawnmowers and everything. Down south of Gastonia. What's the name of that big plant down there?

M1: Briggs and Stratton?

SLAYTON: What?

M1: Briggs and Stratton?

SLAYTON: No. I mean – well, what is it? I know that's a big thing down there.

M1: Oh, oh, oh. [Dana?]. [Wickes Dana?].

HELFAND: Anyway.

SLAYTON: Oh, I can't think of that. And I know Roy [Capps?] worked down there. He was talking union. They were going to [get shot of?] him and his wife. Somebody was talking in there about it and they got [shot of her?]. 00:25:00Same way about machine shops and everything. They done it.

M1: What did you mean by, "they'd work you out of a job"?

SLAYTON: They'd fire you. You wouldn't have no job. Homelite. That's the name of that place. Homelite. Yeah. You know, yonder at Kannapolis. They're having trouble over there, union getting in over there.

STONEY: What are you reading about that?

SLAYTON: I heard them say something the other night about – they going to go back. And I don't think Canada votes right or something. And they'd tell how hard they had to work, you know. Put more work on them. Oh they done that, I remember that. I remember that.

STONEY: Now, we were over yesterday with Mr. Ernest Moore whose father was head of the union at the Grove. And he was part of the union. And he was telling us about how they worked and the fact that his father had to leave town. He got – he was out for six months before he got his job back. And then we went over to the Loray Mill and talked with a gentleman over there whose father was against the unions. And he was explaining that his father was a part of a group they called the 100 Club that was pretty tough on people who – in the mill – who tried to join up. Was there anything like that in your mill that you know of?

SLAYTON: No. No, it wasn't.

STOREY: Mr. Dilling didn't have a squad of men in the mill who discouraged people?

SLAYTON: Well, he discouraged everybody about anything that was a benefit to them. He'd do that. He might have done that, but I didn't know nothing about it. But after this year, Mr. Hunter come here. He was a fine man. And everybody was so glad that Marshall Dilling was gone.

STONEY: We've had, you know – you are one of about five different people who've told us about Mr. Dilling.

SLAYTON: Marshall Dilling? (laughter) Well everything they said was true. There's lots of things I don't guess I remember about. But he was a pistol. 00:28:00But, you know, people back then, they had to stay and work. They had to. They weren't running nowhere. They needed the mills. And there wasn't no jobs. And they just had to stay there.

STONEY: Now, we were wondering if the women had an especially hard time.

SLAYTON: Well, I don't think it was no worse than the men - worse than the men.

STONEY: Was there anything like what they call now "sexual harassment"?

SLAYTON: No, I don't think so. Only thing, he was bad about having you in the office. In the office. And I never will forget when my last girl was born. She was born here in this house. This lady over here, she was over here. You know, back then, people didn't go to the hospital. And Dr. [Groves?] – and Dr. 00:29:00Groves didn't have no use for Marshall Dilling. Said he'd heard so much about him, you know. And so I'll say it. I shouldn't have said it. I says, "Well, I don't like him, either." And you know, whenever I went back over there to go to work, he said to me – he says, "Why do you want to come back to work here?" Said, "I heard you didn't like it." See? That's the way of things. That's the way it was. She - that woman went and told – or either her husband told what Dr. Groves and myself said. Well, he did give me the job back. (laughter) And if your children be out of school, he'd tell you about that. And he'd want to see their report cards. Yeah. See what kind of grades 00:30:00they made. But he was like that. And he'd give the children a dime when they'd come. If that was today, somebody would shoot him, wouldn't they. But I never will forget that. No, Dr. Groves didn't have no use for him.

STONEY: Dr. Groves didn't work for the – he wasn't employed by them?

SLAYTON: Ah. See, down here at the parsonage, Dr. Groves would be the pastor. And his wife's a doctor, you see. And he had two boys. One of them's a lawyer over at Winston-Salem. And one was a doctor over here. But – and it's not been long ago that he died, his boy. But I just wondered. I believe he must 00:31:00have had cancer. But Dr. Groves was (inaudible) words and they say his son was, too.

STONEY: Yeah. That's one thing that I still can't get used to. Because I was reared not to say certain words and be shocked by them. And I still kind of flinch when I – particularly when I hear women say bad words.

SLAYTON: Oh, it sounds worse.

STONEY: Why is that?

SLAYTON: I don't know. That's what my husband always said. He said a woman would drink – get drunk – and say bad words that are worse than a man.

STONEY: I don't know why it sounds like it, but every once in a while – you know, I teach at university.

SLAYTON: Yeah.

STONEY: And every once in a while, I hear one of my women students say exactly what I heard a man student say, and it bothers me a lot more.

SLAYTON: Yeah.

STONEY: I don't know why.

SLAYTON: Now, you take Russell Clary. His brother was an overseer up there at 00:32:00the (inaudible) Mill.

STONEY: How did you get select - how did a man get selected for an overseer?

SLAYTON: He had to do what Mr. Dilling said. He had to do what he said. That's what. He had to do what he said.

STONEY: Would Mr. Dilling choose –

SLAYTON: But, you know, them boss men. They'd have, you know, people in there. Like, if a job would come open. They'd have certain ones they'd give it to. They didn't – they used partiality. They really did.

STONEY: Did they have any women overseers?

SLAYTON: Not then, but they do now. They do now. They have wom- but, you know, I never did think I'd want to work for a woman. I'd rather work for a man. And 00:33:00my daughter's worked for men and worked for women both, and she said that she'd rather work for a man. Said that they get smart, lots of times, with you. (laughter)

STONEY: I see.

HELFAND: Could you explain it, again? Maybe show her Albert's picture and explain that we've been so curious about where we went?

STONEY: OK. OK. Yeah, yeah. You see, we know that -

SLAYTON: It looks to me like one of them boys is being living.

STONEY: That's what we hope. You see, here's Albert Hinson in front of the Parkdale Mill.

SLAYTON: Parkdale Mill. Yeah.

STONEY: And we've got a movie of this same scene –

SLAYTON: You have?

STONEY: - with him up speaking.

SLAYTON: Lord, he'd raise up out of his grave if he know that. But he'd enjoy it.

STONEY: I think he would enjoy it.

SLAYTON: Yeah.

STONEY: Yeah?

SLAYTON: Yeah.

HELFAND: We have a (inaudible).

STONEY: Yeah. OK. Just a moment. OK.

SLAYTON: You say that was at Parkdale?

STONEY: Yeah. Just one – yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's at the Parkdale.

SLAYTON: Then I think they went down to Bowling Green. You know where that's at. Bowling Green down towards South Carolina.

STONEY: If Albert Hinson knew that we had a movie of him speaking –

SLAYTON: Oh, yeah.

STONEY: - what would he think?

SLAYTON: I think he would like it. I think he would like it. But he's been dead several years. He's been dead several years. And I believe his wife – his second wife – is dead now.

STONEY: Do you know what happened to him after he had to leave the village here?

SLAYTON: No, I don't. He did drive a taxi. But I know Rob's brother owned some taxis up there and he – I think he drove one of them. And I don't know 00:35:00what, but he was drawing social security last time I saw him.

STONEY: It's kind of hard to live on that.

SLAYTON: Well, you can't. You can't and pay bills. And keep up a house. You can't do it. Looks like you could get more money, don't it? As much money as they have, the government has, but they claim they haven't got too much.

STONEY: Oh, there's all this business now about the social security system wrecking the treasury.

SLAYTON: Yeah. It wouldn't surprise me if they did cut back on that.

STONEY: Well, I hope they won't, but -

SLAYTON: I hope they won't either.

STONEY: With all this building and loan business –

SLAYTON: Yes.

STONEY: I mean, that's where the money's going.

SLAYTON: And interest rates is down now. No. You know, I was telling the other 00:36:00day about these two women gets $200 a month. I don't see how in the world they live. I don't. I don't.

HELFAND: George, I wonder if Rose - if you could ask Rose what the community thought when he left and if they talked about him any more and - or what the feelings were at the time?

STONEY: OK. When Albert Hinson was making all these speeches, what did people think of him?

SLAYTON: Oh, some liked him and some didn't. Especially the mill men. They didn't like him. They didn't like him.

STONEY: But his neighbors?

SLAYTON: Yeah, I think his neighbors – we always liked him. But we just never did get involved in that. Just never did get involved.

STONEY: And after the strike failed – ended – what did people think? What did they talk about?

SLAYTON: Well, they said, "Well, the south will never have a union." Wasn't no use for 00:37:00them ever trying no more.

STONEY: The south wouldn't have a union?

SLAYTON: Yeah. That's what they'd say. But my son-in-law, he worked for Plantation Pipeline when he came out of the air force. Then he went with Colonial, and they had one, but Colonial don't. But he said every time a plantation raised their employ, he said Colonial went a little higher. Went a little higher. But I heard him say the union was a good thing, if it was carried out right. I've heard Jim say that.

STONEY: How could it be carried out right?

SLAYTON: Have the right men, I reckon. They wanted men. Have the right men in there.

STONEY: Now, one of the funny things is that we talk to people and some people 00:38:00say, "Well –"

SLAYTON: You have to pay dues.

STONEY: That's right.

SLAYTON: Do you think the union's OK?

STONEY: I think it's OK if it's carried out right. Just what you say. But one of the things that I'm wondering about is, people say that only trashy people were in the unions back then. And then we meet people like two men we've talked with this week who were Sunday School superintendents and all of that, and were also in the union. One was a preacher. So, there seem to be some very good people who were leading the union movement then. Southerners.

SLAYTON: Well, you take teachers. Look at teachers. Doctors. They have something. They have it.

STONEY: Yeah, that's right. The doctors have their union.

SLAYTON: And, you know, when the teachers – there was one down yonder at Raleigh back last fall, last winter – they was going down there. That my 00:39:00neighbor said, said "Well, now, if that was textiles, they'd be talking about it." Said, "If that was textiles, they'd be talking about it." And, I mean, they went down there by the hundreds of them. Down there in Raleigh. But I do notice it mostly black got up and talked. I noticed that.

STONEY: Why do you suppose that was?

SLAYTON: You – because – the reason why the blacks? I don't know. I don't know. Maybe they weren't afraid of their job. Maybe that was it.

STONEY: Now, back when you were working in the mills, were there any blacks in the mills?

SLAYTON: No. But they in there now. They in there now. And they'll always be. 00:40:00But, now, they did have a – (inaudible) Williams – she did scrub the floors. But now, they have hardwood floors. Pretty floors in the mills now and they don't do that. But she scrubbed the floors.

STONEY: Do you know what happened to her?

SLAYTON: She's dead.

STONEY: Did you know her?

SLAYTON: Yeah. She was a black lady. She lived back down yonder in the country.

STONEY: Now, one of the things that interested – interests us is that these blacks have come into the mills recently are much more ready, it seems, to join the union than the whites.

SLAYTON: Yes.

STONEY: I wonder why.

SLAYTON: I don't know. I don't know. That's the same way with anything you 00:41:00give away. They're there. You see that on TV. I saw where they was giving out this year's (inaudible). Lord, those lines. And most all of them was black.

STONEY: These are homeless people?

SLAYTON: No. Black. But, you know, I was always too independent. I've seen hard times, but I never did ask for help. But blacks – I heard my husband say that (inaudible). Says, "Anything you give away," he said, "Blacks is going to be there. Is going to be there." Which, you know, I think they get along just as good as poor white people now. They have nice homes and nice cars.

STONEY: Yeah. That's been a big change since I grew up.

SLAYTON: Yes. Yes. Then there's some smart black people. Some smart, real smart.

STONEY: Yeah. There's the mayor of Charlotte.

SLAYTON: Harry Gantt.

STONEY: Yeah.

SLAYTON: I used to love to hear him talk. You know, he run for senator against Jesse Helms. He didn't win, though. He didn't win.

STONEY: He came pretty close.

SLAYTON: Yes, he did. Yes, he did.

STONEY: Do you listen to his daughter on television?

SLAYTON: Yeah. I've listened to her. She's a pretty girl. She's a pretty girl.

STONEY: I think she's a smart girl.

SLAYTON: Yes. She is.

STONEY: Now, that wouldn't have happened a few years ago.

SLAYTON: No way. No way. And they give the news. They've got some on Channel 9. Real s- good, I think.

HELFAND: I wonder – Rose – she said that if it was textiles, they'd be 00:43:00talking about it. And the teachers not. Could you ask her that, George?

STONEY: Yes. When that – your friend said that when all those teachers went down to Charlotte – to Raleigh – to protest to try to get better pay, that if they'd been textile workers, they'd been talking about them.

SLAYTON: Yeah.

STONEY: Why do you think that's true?

SLAYTON: Well, that's the thing. They didn't have much of an education. But I know lots of people works in the mills got good educations. I know lots of them.

STONEY: Now.

SLAYTON: Yeah.

STONEY: That's what we found. We've gotten – we've done interviews with a lot of young textile workers.

SLAYTON: Then another thing, they make more than these here women works over here in this bank that cashes your check, people does.

STONEY: Yeah. I know.

SLAYTON: But, now, they don't work as hard. They don't work hard like they do.

STONEY: You mean the people in the bank?

SLAYTON: Yes. They use their head. (laughter) Well, you know, in the mill, now, you don't go in there and learn to do that in a week or two. Have you ever been in the mills?

STONEY: Mm-hmm.

SLAYTON: Have you been in them since they got all this new machinery? It's amazing, isn't it?

STONEY: It is amazing.

SLAYTON: Yes, it is. It's amazing.

STONEY: See them pick up the ends and tie knots and all that kind of thing?

SLAYTON: And got computers on the end now. Tells you which end's down. It's amazing. I know this here girl up here, when I was telling you about her mom and dad wanting her to go on to college. And she worked at Belk's. And she told me – she said, "Why (inaudible) –" Said, "I didn't make nothing over there." But she said she made over $7 an hour over here.

STONEY: She didn't make anything at Belk's, but she made over $7 in the 00:45:00cotton mill.

SLAYTON: Yeah. Over here. Yeah. And then one day, I was over there. I was getting me a pair of shoes. And this girl was getting my shoes. She told me she didn't make nothing much.

STONEY: But, boy, you work in the cotton mill.

SLAYTON: Yes, you do.

STONEY: I was – one of the things that disturbs –

SLAYTON: You get a couple breaks.

STONEY: Yeah.

SLAYTON: Used to, you didn't get that.

STONEY: One of the things that bothers me is that it brought back the 12-hour day. Two shifts, 12 hours a day, which is very, very hard on women with children. And people over 40 who could take an 8-hour day, but have a hard time taking a 12-hour day.

SLAYTON: But they work them, now, 12 hours. And, you know, they didn't do that 00:46:00back – see, they just dropped that law. And anybody come in, work on the second shift, they couldn't work but nine – let's see - seven hours and they had to come out of there. But now, they can work all day and all night if they want to. They shouldn't have never done that. They should have left it like it is. Let women work eight hours. But now – they used to ask me before I retired. I said no. I said, "Eight hours is enough for me." But you did get time and a half, but after you worked eight hours, you were tired. Just continue walking, walking, walking, and a pulling. Walking and a pulling. You're pushing on. (inaudible) I never did hear but one person say that she liked to 00:47:00work in the mill. And I thought to myself there was something wrong with you. (laughter) It was. There was something wrong with her. I don't believe nobody likes to work this real hard eight hours.

STONEY: It must be monotonous, doing the same thing over and over.

SLAYTON: Well, there's so many different things you have to do about it. So many different things. I have seen people come in there that never did learn. And, you know, in these machine shops, I've seen unions come in there and then 00:48:00get shut of them.

STONEY: Did you know any of the railroad workers who were in unions?

SLAYTON: No, I didn't. Now, they've always had union, haven't they? They always had union.

STONEY: And the printers.

SLAYTON: Yes. Yeah.

STONEY: And the carpenters.

SLAYTON: So, I don't know why, but they never did want it in textiles. Do you have any idea why they never did?

STONEY: Well, my hunch is that the employers knew that they had the people pretty well under their thumb because they were living in their own villages –

SLAYTON: Houses.

STONEY: - and they could control them. And the cost of doing business was very much affected by how much they paid their workers. And so if they could pay them 00:49:00less, they could cut their prices and still make a profit. But I think, also, there's something else. I think that a lot more of them are like Mr. Dilling.

SLAYTON: Yes. Well, they say – this here Mr. Miller used to be at – up at Reagan Mill. They said he was exactly like Marshall Dilling. And you couldn't wear pants in – over here. And you had to wear hose. You couldn't go in there with socks on. And you had to wear hose. Marie Cross came in one morning and she had a pair of socks on. He sent her home. He sent her home and told her to go home and put her a pair of hose on. And he would – and I know one time 00:50:00they was all going to put on a pair of socks and come in there. One woman, I never will forget. And that was on the first shift (inaudible). One woman went in with her hose on and her socks, too. See, she was going to be on either side. (laughter) I – no. And you had to wear a dress. You couldn't – you had to wear hose. And you couldn't wear socks. And no pants. No pants. No. And they say that Mr. Miller was the very same way, that he was like that. And it might have been lots more, but I knew a woman that worked up there. Told me that.

STONEY: Well, we have a wonderful story. One of the person that worked in the mill told us. This was just before the war started. When the labor was short, 00:51:00that one of her relatives sent her a kind of fancy pantsuit. And -

HELFAND: Flowered overalls.

STONEY: That's right. Flowered overalls. And – she and her sister. And she dared her sister to wear it.

SLAYTON: Yeah?

STONEY: Well, they were sure that the overseer was going to object because he didn't allow women with anything but skirts on. So, finally, she got up the courage, the nerve. She put on the flowered overalls and came in. And she said, "I waited and I waited. And then the supervisor started – superintendent started coming down the alley. And he said, 'What are you doing wearing your pajamas in the mill?'" (laughter) And then he saw it was overalls and he let 00:52:00her go. And she –

SLAYTON: He didn't send her home?

STONEY: He didn't send her home. And after that, all -

SLAYTON: That wasn't here, at Smyre.

STONEY: After that, all the women started wearing pants. But that was when they were short of help.

SLAYTON: Yeah. And – yes. And, you know, after the war, you could get a job, too. You could get a job. I remember they'd get out over here on the sidewalk and ask people to work. I remember that.

STONEY: That was during the war?

SLAYTON: Yeah. During the war.

STONEY: What happened after the war?

SLAYTON: Well, it began to slack off. It began to slack off.

STONEY: But you never had any trouble keeping your job?

SLAYTON: No, I never did. Only one time. I was – my name will never be told on this, will it?

HELFAND: Why wouldn't you want your name told?

SLAYTON: I wouldn't want my name mentioned. Like, if it's a movie.

STONEY: Yeah.

SLAYTON: I wouldn't want my name – for people to say (inaudible) "Well, why is she telling that? Why is she tell-" This here man I worked for (inaudible). Well, I run this (inaudible) get home about 1:00. It's on production. And they had that other machine over there. Paid by the hour. And so this here girl – woman. She was a married woman and had children. She run that. And so he – she was supposed to work on, you know, 2:00. And he'd let her go home and come over and tell me. Says, "You go over there and run 00:54:00(inaudible)." You know, I got tired of that. So, one day, I got my bag and I was coming down through the mill, and Rob said, "Rose, where are you going?" I said, "I'm going home." And I said, "I've quit." He said, "How come? Same thing?" I said, "Yes." And so I say now, "Don't you quit because I did." And he was overhauling machinery. And so he went over there and he asked this man about it. He says, "I'll do what I want to," and my husband slapped him down. Knocked him down in a box! I never will forget that. He headed on home and he told me about it. He said, "You know, that made me so mad, him doing you like that." See, you couldn't say nothing only you just had to quit. So, he done that. That was the first time he ever had done nothing 00:55:00like that. But I went on over at Ranlo and I worked over there a while. But that's the only time I ever did, you know, have any trouble. Him doing that. But he's dead now.

STONEY: But he just wanted you to do somebody else's work?

SLAYTON: Well, he'd let her come home, you see? And she was getting paid for her eight hours. I done made mine. She got paid by the hour. And, see, I was on production. And you had to get your machine cleaned up for the other shift to come in, you see. And he'd let her come home. But he was going with her. It used to be, lots of that went on in the mills. Lots of it. And he'd come over there and tell me, says "You go over there and run [Willie's loom?]." I got tired of that. See, I was supposed to come home. I wasn't getting paid for that. She was getting paid. It used to be, lots of that went on, especially 00:56:00amongst the section hands and the overseers was bad about that. And I wouldn't doubt if it's still like that.

STONEY: But Mr. Dilling knew about that?

SLAYTON: Yeah. Yeah. He was the superintendent over there at that time.

STONEY: And he let them get by with it?

SLAYTON: Why, you know, he never – they said he had one. He went with women. They say he did, of course. And I can't prove that, but I know that was a fact about (inaudible) doing that.

STONEY: Well, so, it was good to have a husband who could kind of protect you in the mill.

SLAYTON: Yeah. But he said, "You know, that just made me so mad." He said, "Him doing you like that." See, she'd come home. Her husband worked over 00:57:00there, too. It was lots of dirty work going on then.