[Silence]
00:01:00[Sience]
00:02:00[Silence]
00:03:00[Silence]
00:04:00[Silence]
00:05:00[Silence]
00:06:00[Silence]
00:07:00[Silence]
00:08:00[Silence]
00:09:00[Silence]
00:10:00[Silence]
00:11:00[Silence]
00:12:00[Silence]
00:13:00[Silence]
00:14:00[Silence]
00:15:00[Silence]
00:16:00[Silence]
00:17:00[Silence]
00:18:00[Silence]
00:19:00[Silence]
00:20:00[Silence]
00:21:00[Silence]
00:22:00[Silence]
00:23:00(Audio begins at 0023:04)
HELFAND: Where we're going and then (inaudible).
GEORGE STONEY: OK (inaudible) we're rolling. OK. Oh boy, I didn't know
there was so much traffic on this road. We're headed to Blowing Rock, which is a summer resort for the upper middle class in western North Carolina, to visit Joe Lineberger. He's the grandson and son of people who own – who owned many mills in the Gastonia area, Gaston County, and was himself a mill manager, president, for many years. We're seeing him about t—particularly 00:24:00to asking him about the employer's view of the strike, '34, and all the organization that went on beforehand, all the – I'm particularly interested in getting his view of the complaints filed by many of the workers in letters written in their own hand to Roosevelt and to Hugh Johnson, to all the people whose jobs were to enforce the NRA codes. It's interesting that in a book called Like a Family these letters are taken as fact. They're not challenged at all. In fact they're – almost a whole chapter about the 1934 strike is 00:25:00based on the evidence that was in those letters. And so I think that we want to get some response from the employer's viewpoint. We had a short pre-interview with Mr. Lineberger several months ago. And then he made it quite clear that he was against unions. We'll see what he has to say today.HELFAND: What's it been like in the past when you've been, uh, interviewing
employers and people that really were running these mills in this – this part of the country?GEORGE STONEY: Well, one of the problems is that the employers were older and so
00:26:00there are not many of them still around. And their sons and grandsons have moved on to other things. They've sold out to the big corporations. Yesterday we spent all day with Elliott – Dr. Elliott White, who was a physician, was the son of a mill owner. And so he told us what it looked like from a young boy's perspective. But that's very different from somebody who can read these letters and interpret them from the point of view of somebody who had to make the mills run and had to make a profit, had to keep the doors open. So that's what we're trying to do. These windy roads. I'm trying to 00:27:00drive fairly slowly and these people behind me are getting very impatient.JAMES STONEY: You can speed up if you want (inaudible). I'm all right.
GEORGE STONEY: I think 50 miles an hour is a gracious plenty on a road as curvy
as this. 00:28:00[Silence]
00:29:00[Silence]
HELFAND: George, are you ever frightened to tell them what we're really doing
and express your opinion to them? Management?GEORGE STONEY: Oh, I'm un— uneasy because as a Southerner I'm used to
speaking to people in the way they like to be spoken to. This is the – the code of the South is that you agree with people and you find out what they think and then you tend to go along with it. This is what we do in families. This is what we do in our public life generally. 00:30:00HELFAND: So how are we supposed to speak to mill management?
GEORGE STONEY: How are we supposed to speak to mill management? Well, in the
first place, the man is seeing us on his own terms. He didn't ask for the interview, we did. He's inviting us into his home. And there's a certain courtesy involved. This is very traditional in the South. And so I don't feel I'm any Mike Wallace. That just doesn't come easily to me by nature. And I think that Lineberger has the right to be heard on his own terms. I 00:31:00certainly feel that he should read some of these letters and we'll get his response. There's a big truck up ahead that's going to slow us down.HELFAND: Have you ever been up here before?
GEORGE STONEY: To Blowing Rock?
HELFAND: Yeah.
GEORGE STONEY: Oh yes.
HELFAND: For vacation? (inaudible).
GEORGE STONEY: Well, I once spent a couple of weeks in Linville Gorge when I was
00:32:00going to college the summer of my freshman year. But I didn't – my family didn't have a place in Blowing Rock. Blowing Rock was a – was and still is a summer resort for the upper middle class. We would like to have had a place in Blowing Rock but could never afford it. You'll get some idea of the place when I tell you that when I called up, uh, the Linebergers the other day, Mrs. Lineberger said, "Well, Joe is out on the golf course now. And then the af— this afternoon we're going to the horse show." 00:33:00HELFAND: Should we open up your driving window?
JAMES STONEY: Well if I shoot outside all I'm going to get is vegetation.
GEORGE STONEY: Yeah, that's, uh, it's not –
JAMES STONEY: I'm just trying to get –
HELFAND: (inaudible) we just passed (inaudible) on the right.
GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.
HELFAND: (inaudible) give you some (inaudible).
GEORGE STONEY: There'll be plenty of other overlooks, I'm sure. Going to let
00:34:00all those people pass me here.HELFAND: What'd you say, George?
GEORGE STONEY: Going to let all those people pass me here so we can –
00:35:00Blowing Rock!HELFAND: (inaudible).
GEORGE STONEY: Ah, there are the mountains. Smokies. Judy, you know why
they're called the Smokies, don't you?HELFAND: Why?
GEORGE STONEY: Because they're in – in fog most of the time. Or so much of
the time.JAMES STONEY: That's why it's called the Blue Ridge, because all the
(inaudible) blue fog. 00:36:00HELFAND: (inaudible) sheaf of kudzu.
JAMES STONEY: Huh?
HELFAND: Sheaf of kudzu.
JAMES STONEY: No, you're not taking that back to New York. I ain't letting
you take it back.HELFAND: What? Pictures of kudzu?
JAMES STONEY: Oh. She—, uh, no, a sheaf of –
HELFAND: Sheaf of kudzu.
JAMES STONEY: Yeah. I thought you were saying whack off a piece and let you
00:37:00take it home.HELFAND: No (inaudible) no. I mean just (inaudible).
JAMES STONEY: I'm sorry, I'd let you take toxic waste home if I let you take
– take kudzu home. Winter will not kill kudzu. Ask anybody in Knoxville. OK, there is an overlook ahead.GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.
JAMES STONEY: (inaudible).
GEORGE STONEY: Apple cider!
HELFAND: (inaudible).
JAMES STONEY: (inaudible) windy road, Judy.
00:38:00HELFAND: Bear went over the mountain, the bear went over the mountain.
JAMES STONEY: What was that?
HELFAND: No, no, no, no, no (inaudible).
JAMES STONEY: You know what side meat is, right?
HELFAND: Yeah.
JAMES STONEY: (inaudible).
HELFAND: (inaudible).
00:39:00GEORGE STONEY: Uh-oh, I did the wrong thing there.
JAMES STONEY: (inaudible) after this, uh, pickup – brown pickup you can pass.
GEORGE STONEY: Yeah? Yeah, can, mm-hmm.
HELFAND: Uh, would it be helpful –
JAMES STONEY: What?
HELFAND: Would it be helpful for your dad to open his window?
JAMES STONEY: No.
HELFAND: OK.
GEORGE STONEY: Gosh, that must be a nice house (inaudible) over this highway
night and day with all of that traffic. 00:40:00HELFAND: (inaudible).
00:41:00GEORGE STONEY: Falling rock. No, nothing. That sky is so uninteresting.
00:42:00JAMES STONEY: Yeah.
GEORGE STONEY: Oh, Judy, you should see this in the fall.
HELFAND: (inaudible).
JAMES STONEY: Yeah, this is gorgeous in the fall.
GEORGE STONEY: Oh, the leaves are so beautiful.
HELFAND: (inaudible).
JAMES STONEY: Tweetsie Railroad. Green Park Inn.
00:43:00GEORGE STONEY: Green Park Inn.
JAMES STONEY: Yeah.
GEORGE STONEY: Sharp right after this.
HELFAND: (inaudible) maybe we'll get the rest (inaudible).
GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm. Oh, that's probably –
JAMES STONEY: That was the Green Park Inn.
GEORGE STONEY: Yeah. I think that's probably where I should have turned but
we'll see.JAMES STONEY: You can go into town and turn around.
GEORGE STONEY: Yeah.
JAMES STONEY: You know what's nice, Judy?
HELFAND: Yeah?
JAMES STONEY: I've shot in the golf course and everything here.
HELFAND: Uh-huh.
JAMES STONEY: It definitely comes across the – what he said, middle class.
HELFAND: Right.
JAMES STONEY: So I'm just rolling out the window.
HELFAND: (inaudible) great. When we turn around we'll (inaudible).
GEORGE STONEY: Yeah.
JAMES STONEY: Yeah.
00:44:00GEORGE STONEY: Should I turn around here?
JAMES STONEY: Yeah. Yeah, you're clear.
GEORGE STONEY: OK. Blowing Rock is an old resort.
HELFAND: (inaudible) What were you saying, George?
GEORGE STONEY: Blowing Rock is an old resort where people from Winston-Salem and
– and Charlotte and, uh.HELFAND: Can you start that again?
GEORGE STONEY: Blowing Rock is an old summer resort where people from western
North Carolina, Charlotte, Winston-Salem, have had summer homes for a long long 00:45:00time. It's where we would like to have had a summer home, but we never could afford it. I think I should have turned right in there and I'm going to have to go around (inaudible).JAMES STONEY: (inaudible) right here, coming up.
GEORGE STONEY: Right here?
JAMES STONEY: The left here.
GEORGE STONEY: OK (inaudible) OK. I have to go around and go around again.
This is the Green Park –JAMES STONEY: This is the inn.
GEORGE STONEY: Yeah, this is right, yeah.
HELFAND: So what's supposed to happen now (inaudible).
JAMES STONEY: We supposed to meet him here?
GEORGE STONEY: No, no. We're supposed to turn at this sharp right around the
golf course and then take every left. You see there's a s— their place is a part of this development I guess. Yeah. I think this must be the turn. Yeah, 00:46:00that's it, yeah. Once I make this turn I take every left possible. Think a lot of people have built summer homes around this – the golf course here.HELFAND: We're early.
GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm. It's all right.
00:47:00HELFAND: You know what this is called? Goforth Drive.
JAMES STONEY: Fore!
HELFAND: I think it means like go forth like biblically.
GEORGE STONEY: Yes. Sure.
JAMES STONEY: You heard of the Bible Belt? This here is the buckle. Is it
still a dry county, Dad?GEORGE STONEY: I don't know.
JAMES STONEY: I know Asheville was.
GEORGE STONEY: Yeah.
JAMES STONEY: And I know Boone was.
GEORGE STONEY: Huh.
HELFAND: S— George, what's the address?
GEORGE STONEY: Uh, I'll have to look in my book. But they said take every
possible left until we get there. Go right around the golf course. 00:48:00JAMES STONEY: (inaudible)if they do a walking shot we're going to steal a golf cart.
GEORGE STONEY: Uh-oh, I should have turned there. I should have turned there.
Uh, let me see my book again.HELFAND: (inaudible) didn't I give it to you?
GEORGE STONEY: Yeah n—
JAMES STONEY: Put it right down there. It sl— it's right here.
GEORGE STONEY: OK.
00:49:00JAMES STONEY: Ooh, I'm doing a [Johnny Alpert?]. See? Right over there.
GEORGE STONEY: (inaudible) uh, all right, directly past – take every possible
left and around the lake and see his house, uh, uh, with his name on it. Uh, we haven't seen that, I wonder - think it must be up this way. We'll see if it – this is it. So you look – look out for his name. It's, uh, keep 00:50:00looking for his name. Yeah, there are homes up here.HELFAND: J. W. Lineberger.
GEORGE STONEY: Ah, good. OK. I don't think we should be shooting when I meet him.
HELFAND: No.
GEORGE STONEY: (inaudible).
JAMES STONEY: (inaudible) pull up I'll shut it down.
GEORGE STONEY: OK.
JAMES STONEY: (inaudible) pulling up to the house.
GEORGE STONEY: Yeah, OK.
JAMES STONEY: (inaudible).
GEORGE STONEY: OK, uh.
JAMES STONEY: (inaudible).
GEORGE STONEY: OK. Isn't that beautiful? Wow. What a nice place. Maybe out
00:51:00golfing this morning. OK. Good – good morning!JOE LINEBERGER: (inaudible).
GEORGE STONEY: Your directions were so good, we got here. We got here early.
LINEBERGER: (inaudible) good. I was just, uh (inaudible).
GEORGE STONEY: Hello.
LINEBERGER: Take her out for a minute (inaudible).
GEORGE STONEY: OK. Of course, sure, thank you.
LINEBERGER: Wife just went downtown. She'll be back (inaudible).
GEORGE STONEY: All right, fine. But as I say your directions were so good (inaudible).
LINEBERGER: Yeah. Well, I wondered if you'd (inaudible).
GEORGE STONEY: I – I only stopped down there and had to back up about this
far. That's all. But you said every possible left and here we are. Good.LINEBERGER: Yeah. Well, it's hard to (inaudible) it's hard to direct
everybody. I don't know half the roads myself (inaudible).GEORGE STONEY: Well, the simple thing is you said the hotel and then from there
on, so that was very simple. And we – we didn't hit much traffic this morning.LINEBERGER: Good, you were lucky. Lucky.
GEORGE STONEY: Yeah, it's fine.
LINEBERGER: (inaudible).
GEORGE STONEY: Yeah.
00:52:00(break in audio from 00:51:53 until 00:52:57)
LINEBERGER: (inaudible).
00:53:00GEORGE STONEY: Forty-six. Well, it feels lived-in.
LINEBERGER: Let's see. Yeah. Yeah, we've been doing here, we've got another
little house out at the back, guesthouse. Our children come up, we see them every weekend, I mean every, several times during the summer they'll bring the children up here and all.GEORGE STONEY: How many children do you have?
LINEBERGER: Just two. They're all married and got three grandsons and two
granddaughters, so it works out fine.GEORGE STONEY: Yeah.
LINEBERGER: Yeah.
GEORGE STONEY: Your father A.C. How many children did he have?
LINEBERGER: He had eight and I was the last one. And he, his father had eight
and he was the last one. That's why, so. He was born -- my father told me all about the Civil War. He was born in about 1857 or something like that. Now I'm only the third generation. My grandfather was born in 1850. Can you imagine that? 00:54:00And I'm only the third generation! So I -- (laughter)GEORGE STONEY: You feel you can touch it.
LINEBERGER: (laughing) Yeah. We can uh, (inaudible).
GEORGE STONEY: And you can see the end from here.
LINEBERGER: Oh yeah (inaudible). That's this side of the end. That's the -- .
Ends on the other side of that [going?] around it.GEORGE STONEY: Oh, I see. Maybe you can explain to Judy why these were called
the Smokies.LINEBERGER: (laughter) I don't know. Smoky Mountains, I don't -- I don't know.
I don't remember that.JH: Why is it called Blowing Rock?
LINEBERGER: Because of -- you ought to see the rock over there. It's really
something. It blows right up against it. Hello? How do you get -- (inaudible) phone. Hello? Gah, I don't know how to work this thing. Here, I was doing it too quickly.JS: What's your handicap? (laughter) What's your golf handicap, sir?
00:55:00LINEBERGER: Well, I used to be a scratch player. Many years ago. And I shot my
age up here until I had these operations a couple years ago. Now I'm back playing again, but. When you get as old as I am, I oughta -- I don't think I'll have any trouble shooting it this year when you get it in the eighties, you know (laughter).JS: How's your short game?
LINEBERGER: Well, it's pretty good. That used to be my best --
GEORGE STONEY: You're not close to eighties, though.
LINEBERGER: I'm 82 this month. And we were married up here this, this month, in
July, 54 years ago. We never missed a summer in Blowing Rock.GEORGE STONEY: That's nice.
LINEBERGER: Yeah.
GEORGE STONEY: Well we were, spent the day yesterday with Elliott White, Dr.
Elliott White, do you know him?LINEBERGER: I've heard of him, yeah.
GEORGE STONEY: He took us up to Graham --
LINEBERGER: Mm-hm
GEORGE STONEY: -- where he grew up. His father was a mill owner.
LINEBERGER: Yeah, I remember him.
GEORGE STONEY: And he was describing going around the, the village with uh, his
00:56:00father and so forth. And then he led us to three people who worked in the mills there, including his boss when he worked in the mill during the summer.LINEBERGER: Yeah, yeah.
GEORGE STONEY: And we got some very good stuff. Yeah. It was interesting stuff.
LINEBERGER: I remember when I started. I was always interested in the production
end of it, like my daddy was. And after I finished Carolina with a liberal arts degree I went, came back and went to work in the mill. My brother had gone to Harvard Business School and they all said, "Now you should go up there" and I said "You know, I kinda like this production end. (laughter) And so that's where I started and I worked in there a full year and I didn't make any money at all, but I, and they said, "Well what are you gonna do?" and I said "I'm going back to school" and I went to State and got an engineering degree in textiles. Engineering degree. Came back and stayed in production all my life.GEORGE STONEY: What was your class at Chapel Hill?
LINEBERGER: '33.
00:57:00GEORGE STONEY: Do you know we're in the same class?
LINEBERGER: Really? (laughter)
GEORGE STONEY: That's right!
LINEBERGER: My God.
GEORGE STONEY: That's when I left Winston-Salem and came down and was at Chapel
Hill. Thirty-three to '37.LINEBERGER: I'll be damned. Well I went there in '29. (inaudible)
GEORGE STONEY: Oh you graduated --
LINEBERGER: Graduated in '33.
GEORGE STONEY: Oh no no, you left the year I came. That's the difference. I was wondering.
LINEBERGER: You know Archie Davis up there, he and I roomed together, head of
the bank and all that.GEORGE STONEY: But that's -- I was wondering.
LINEBERGER: (inaudible)
GEORGE STONEY: Yeah. So I was the class of '37, you see.
LINEBERGER: Yeah, you're just a youngster.
GEORGE STONEY: (laughter) That's right.
LINEBERGER: Just a youngster.
GEORGE STONEY: But uh -- how did -- after Chapel Hill, how did you go to State?
I mean, that must have been --LINEBERGER: Boy, I, I talked them into it.
GEORGE STONEY: Yeah.
LINEBERGER: When I got over there and I'd already had a degree and they said,
"Well, I don't know about it" and I talked to the man who was head of the textile division there at the engineering school, and I finally talked him into letting me get credit for everything I'd had at Chapel Hill except the -- what I needed in this -- (laughter) and he let me do it. And he says, "You're the only 00:58:00man outside of Goevernor Gar -- Ralph Gardner who's ever been over here and gotten this. So. (laughter)GEORGE STONEY: Course, Gardner was a mill owner himself.
LINEBERGER: Yeah. He was in it. But he, he went to Chapel Hill first, and then
went over there and, and got a degree in engineering. And he says, "You're the only one outside of Ralph Gardner that's ever did this, so." (laughter)GEORGE STONEY: But the guys must have kidded you.
LINEBERGER: Yeah (laughter)
GEORGE STONEY: I just --
LINEBERGER: I had a good time.
GEORGE STONEY: With all that rivalry between N.C. -- uh, State and Carolina.
LINEBERGER: Oh yeah. Yeah.
GEORGE STONEY: Yeah.
LINEBERGER: You wanna go on in?
GEORGE STONEY: Yeah, we'll go on in.
LINEBERGER: (inaudible)
GEORGE STONEY: This is -- we're really luck this morning because this even light
helps us a lot.LINEBERGER: (inaudible)
GEORGE STONEY: Good morning!
