Annie Honeycutt Interview 1

GEORGE STONEY: Uh-huh.

M1: Hey, I brought your baby's pictures. I'm going to leave 'em when I'm going. And I'm going to get out of this thing. (laughter) I don't want in that movie. (laughter) And nice seeing ya'll, bye!

STONEY: Nice to see you. Hello.

ANNIE HONEYCUTT: Hello.

STONEY: I'm -- I'm George Stoney.

HONEYCUTT: Annie Honeycutt.

STONEY: Uh, Judy's just been -- I've just been playing the tape that she made last year, fascinating. I'm going to cut off that, if I may. Yes, good. But it was really interesting what -- what you had to say.

HONEYCUTT: Well, when -- as you say, when you get old, you forget some of these things, but, it seems I can remember my older things better than I do today.

STONEY: That's -- that's the same way with me. I can remember things from my childhood, and I just can't remember my student's name from last term.

HONEYCUTT: Right.

STONEY: Jamie, should I turn this on?

JUDITH HELFAND: Hello, it's so good to see you!

HONEYCUTT: Hello! I'm glad to see you.

HELFAND: Oh, it's great to see you. You know what -- oh, you look wonderful!

HONEYCUTT: Wonderful?

HELFAND: That's right.

HONEYCUTT: Don't get my arm. (laughter) I fell down. Ain't that something?

STONEY: Oh boy, that's bad; that's bad.

HELFAND: You know what? I forgot something in the car. We're going to have to stop for one second.

STONEY: OK.

(break in audio)

STONEY: I know what it is to try to keep things. We had -- looking at your china cabinet back there, we had one on which is exactly like that in our old house in -- in Salem.

HONEYCUTT: Well, I'd taken all them -- had to take 'em all out from to move 'em, you know, out --

STONEY: Mm-hmm. Oh sure, yeah.

HONEYCUTT: -- they moved all this stuff out in the yard and put it on this carpet.

STONEY: Yeah.

HONEYCUTT: And I said, I ain't putting it back, the whole thing.

STONEY: (laughter) Yeah.

HELFAND: Well let me shake your hand. It's been a whole year, hasn't it?

HONEYCUTT: It sure has.

HELFAND: Ah. You've had -- how are -- you getting around just as good as you were last year?

HONEYCUTT: Oh, I still -- grumble with my knees once in a while; we all do that, I think --

STONEY: Yeah.

HONEYCUTT: -- as we get older. But otherwise, I'm still trotting around.

STONEY: (laughter)

HELFAND: All right, I'm really, really glad to hear that. Super.

HONEYCUTT: Because I feel like if we give up and sit down, we might not get up again. (laughter)

STONEY: (laughter) Well, what interest us, of course is, uh, your memories of the -- particularly, the -- the '20s and '30s.

HONEYCUTT: Mm-hmm.

STONEY: And, about people's, uh, trying to get unions in.

HONEYCUTT: Yeah.

STONEY: And your husband was such an important part of this.

HONEYCUTT: Well he worked for it, you know --

STONEY: Yeah.

HONEYCUTT: -- he worked for -- was the organizer.

STONEY: Mm-hmm. But, uh, maybe you should start by telling us something about where you come from, and when you started working in the mills.

HONEYCUTT: Uh, I started working when I was 14 years old. But, uh -- now, I nev-- uh, we didn't get involved in the union until about in the '30s, you know, somewhere along there. Because, used to -- way back when it first started, when my daddy, you know, in the -- earlier than that, if you talked 00:03:00about it in the mill, you lost your job.

STONEY: When did your father get involved in the union, you think?

HONEYCUTT: Uh, don't know. I must have been about 14 or 15 years old when he left Gibson Mill because of the union, and then he went to Brown Mill.

STONEY: Now, you were born when?

HONEYCUTT: Nineteen seven.

STONEY: So, that was about '21.

HONEYCUTT: Mm-hmm.

STONEY: Now we do know that there was a -- there was an effort in a number of places about '20, '21 to get a union, so we're particularly interested in --

HONEYCUTT: Mm-hmm.

STONEY: -- what your father did. Could you tell us what you know?

HONEYCUTT: Well, uh, the first that I can remember, it just -- you know, when I just got out of grammar school, you know, was -- they begin to talk about it, that's when they first began to lay them off, when -- that was over Gibson mill then, it's, uh, Plant Six now. And, uh, my daddy and my mother got laid off, and he went to work at Brown Mill.

STONEY: Now that, uh, Gibson Mill was owned by Cannon at the time?

HONEYCUTT: Cannon, mm-hmm.

STONEY: So in 1921, when your father joined the union there, and your mother joined the union --

HONEYCUTT: Oh, they were working there.

STONEY: They --

HONEYCUTT: Now I don't even know whether they belonged, or whether they were just trying to organize it, or what. I do know it was about -- about the union.

STONEY: And they had to leave there?

HONEYCUTT: Mm-hmm.

STONEY: Uh, did they have to leave the -- the houses as well?

HONEYCUTT: We moved away when I was -- moved in a house. We didn't have nowhere to go, and we moved in a house with my uncle. And a three-roomed house, and it had six children, you know how that was. (laughter)

STONEY: (laughter) Was your -- was your father and mother, were they bitter about that?

HONEYCUTT: No, they didn't seem to be bitter about it. I reckon they just taken it all in stride. If they did, they didn't let us children know about it.

STONEY: That's the thing that amazes me is that, uh, all of this happening, and the children not -- just not knowing.

HONEYCUTT: Just not knowing if they felt bitter about it.

STONEY: Mm-hmm. We were talking to a fellow the other day whose family had to move to South Carolina from, uh, the Charlotte area, about the -- about the same year, and all he could remember was how much fun they had in the new place when about six of them were living in -- in the same room. None of the hardships, but just that.

HONEYCUTT: Yes, I -- I -- I don't remember when we moved to Brown Mill when the house was built, they were just finishing what we called -- what -- it was named "New Row."

STONEY: Mm-hmm.

HONEYCUTT: And, uh, I was 15 years old then, and they'd just painted outside it the day we moved in, and we all got warned not to get paint all on us. (laughter)

STONEY: (laughter)

HONEYCUTT: So I remember and, uh, my family lived in that house, the last of my two other -- youngest brothers went to war, and come back, and my mother died, and then my father died. My mother died in '42, and my father in '47. And 00:06:00the two boys was not married, you know, so we just left everything; we didn't bother with no furniture; we didn't need it, so we just let them have the home place, and they lived there till my youngest brother got married and -- and built a home of his own. Lived in that one company house all them years.

STONEY: How many -- rooms?

HONEYCUTT: Uh, four, and a hall in it. Six kids.

STONEY: Could you -- tell us about, just -- walk through the house and tell us what it looked like.

HONEYCUTT: Well it was just an ordinary house, just plain four-room house with a hall in it. No bath in it. We had outside toilets then, you know. Spigots outside. Two families used one spigot.

STONEY: What did you cook?

HONEYCUTT: We had a kitchen, and a pantry. Back then they had pantries in the house. And, uh, that's just a plain house.

STONEY: What kind of stove?

HONEYCUTT: Uh, wood stove at that time.

HELFAND: Excuse me --

HONEYCUTT: I don't -- I don't remember my mother ever having anything but a wood stove.

HELFAND: George, you know what, if we're going to --

(break in audio)

STONEY: -- the streets where I live in New York and see people buying wood for their little fireplaces. Four dollars for a little piece like that. (laughter) And you give yours away.

HONEYCUTT: And then we -- and then we give seven away. I -- I -- them -- the sawmill took the big ones for the lumber, and then three of my friends, they burned wood, this fellow next door, and a couple more, they just took all the rest. He -- that fellow down there said he's have enough wood to last him two or three years, [and still would?].

STONEY: Now, I was about to ask you about cooking. Uh, where'd you get your wood?

HONEYCUTT: Uh, I don't know that. I guess they got somebody to bring it to the house; I don't remember about how they got the wood. I know we had an old -- old shed out the back, that the stack -- we'd always call it the woodshed. But I don't remember. I guess they just, uh, got somebody to cut it down and 00:08:00bring it, because my daddy didn't go cut it.

STONEY: Did the company furnish stuff like that?

HONEYCUTT: Mm-mm. You had to buy.

STONEY: Now, could you tell us something about life in -- in that village where you lived?

HONEYCUTT: Well, uh, I still, uh -- it still feels like home over there now when I go out -- here far back and visit the old house that I've stayed in. I collect dolls, and this lady collects dolls, and I went to see her dolls, and half of 'em wound up in the house that I lived in from the time I was 15 years old. Ain't nobody ever lived in it but her and -- and our family. And it's changed a lot. She paneled it inside, and it was all different, and, uh -- well, we -- back then, they used to have, uh, ice cream stuffers up there in the mill yard, you know, on Saturday nights, we didn't go nowhere, only to church, or, uh -- I was grown before I'd ever seen a movie. So, uh, it's just -- 00:09:00times just change, and I know a lot of times these children, the way they're doing now, but look what they've got to do with. They got the cars when they were 16, and --

STONEY: What about church the-- then?

HONEYCUTT: The what?

STONEY: The church?

HONEYCUTT: We had a lot of -- uh, different things in the churches, you know, like our Sunbeams and BYPUs, and things like that, the children went to church then. Well, they go today. We've got a lot of good kids here today, but still, uh -- but I guess, it just -- things have changed, and we just have to learn to live with them.

STONEY: What -- did the superintendent, uh, in the mill, uh -- could take any part, or concern himself with what happened in the village?

HONEYCUTT: No, but he was -- uh, whenever after -- uh, when Les got to organizing the union, we lived down there, and uh -- Mr. Harmon was our superintendent; I've got his picture. And, he was always good to -- to look after the -- you know, if anything got wrong with the house, or anything 00:10:00unusual, or -- uh, you could go talk with him, and I've -- I always thought a lot of Mr. Harmon.

STONEY: That was in --

HONEYCUTT: I was superintendent back in -- uh, yeah, in the '30s.

STONEY: Which, uh, village was that?

HONEYCUTT: Plant six.

STONEY: Mm-hmm

HONEYCUTT: Gibson mill.

STONEY: So, uh, now in some places, the superintendents were pretty much concerned with the kind of morals in the -- in the village. Was that true in -- either of the villages you lived in?

HONEYCUTT: Well I -- we never heard, tell, of no stealin' or carrying on like they do today. I think the children was more under control then. Now they might have done it, but there was sneakin' -- it was sneakin' -- we'd never hear nothing about it.

STONEY: What about drinking?

HONEYCUTT: Well I don't remember if -- any drinkin'. My husband didn't drink. Now, it might have been if he drank, you know, I might of -- seen more of it. My daddy never did drink, so. He said he used to -- I've heard him 00:11:00say he used to drink, but when his first boy was born, he said, they'd never see him drink. So, uh, Les didn't drink, and we just didn't -- I guess that's why we just weren't around it.

STONEY: So --

HONEYCUTT: Sometimes, it's just the company you run with. You know, if you run with somebody that drinks, you're gonna be with them.

STONEY: What about the school there?

HONEYCUTT: Uh, I went to Long Grammar School. I just got through the seventh grade, and I done all my studying after I got grown.

STONEY: Did you go back to school when you got grown?

HONEYCUTT: No, I -- no. But I kept, uh, reading and learning, and, uh, when I got old enough to work, went to Belk's department store and worked till I retired in '56.

STONEY: Now back to the village, we're kind of interested in -- in the -- the life there. Could -- do you remember 00:12:00anything special about it?

HONEYCUTT: No, not anything special.

STONEY: That's different from the way it is now?

HONEYCUTT: They've kept them old houses pretty much as they was, except since, uh, Murdoch's bought 'em, you know, they run down a lot. Now, they used to keep them painted, and Cannon Mill kept his houses good, kept them painted inside and outside, and anything got wrong, all you had to do was let 'em know. They had a maintenance man, and electrician. Now my youngest son was an electrician there for years. Well, he still works for Cannon Mill, but it's not Cannon anymore, it's -- he call it [Plat 15?] over there.

STONEY: Did you ever know Mr. Cannon, or any of the managers?

HONEYCUTT: Well, uh, I think we all knew him when we'd see him, but, uh, Mr. Cannon I think was always pretty fair with his -- pretty fair with. They just didn't want the union, I don't know why, but -- they didn't want the 00:13:00union, but, uh, he was a pretty fair fellow to work for, I think -- well, I'll just tell you the truth. He's give a lot of people jobs that didn't have none, and they -- they made a good living for their families. Now, we can't say that anymore, because he -- he -- Cannon really looked out for his people in his houses. He's been dead a long time, but you know, the other Cannons still come in his footsteps. But, uh, Cannon's helped a lot of people.

STONEY: But he just didn't want the union?

HONEYCUTT: They just didn't want the union. They don't want it today, they're still fighting it, in these -- in, uh, what we call the Cannon Mills.

STONEY: Well tell me about your husband and the -- and the union in '34 then.

HONEYCUTT: Well, uh, he joined the union, and uh, after we got laid off --

STONEY: Oh sorry, could you start it and just say, "My husband joined the union"?

HONEYCUTT: Yes, my husband, he joined the union, and after he -- we got laid off, you know, from the strike -- well, that's when the home guards come in. 00:14:00Well, he started, uh, organizing. That's when he got laid off, because he was talking union, and he happened to get people to join the union, and so they, uh, just didn't give us our job back.

STONEY: Were you working in the mill at the time?

HONEYCUTT: Yes, I -- I worked -- I didn't -- I quit working, uh, in about '37, I imagine.

STONEY: So you were in the union at the time -- and the factory, at the time of the '34 strike?

HONEYCUTT: And we got -- I got laid off -- he got laid off, and after we got laid off, uh, well they -- the union helped us put in a suit against him for our wages, and we got a certain amount of our wages. Didn't get them all, but we got part of 'em. I got them papers in, where it was a summons to court.

STONEY: Maybe you should show us those papers.

HONEYCUTT: They were laying here in my old basket where she -- when she was here before.

STONEY: Judy was here before? Yeah.

HONEYCUTT: Yeah, when Judy was here before.

HELFAND: You saved them, huh?

STONEY: (laughter)

HONEYCUTT: Yeah, you saved 'em. I've saved these pictures. You know, you sat down here on the floor one night, and picked out these pictures out of that picture box, and so -- just, let's put 'em in a bag, and we [leave that here?] yet. There's the summons. And I looked at this the other day. You asked me if you knew -- that every one of 'em's dead, that's on here, except one of my first cousins. And he's in his nineties, and he's got Alzheimer's disease in a nursing home. But, as far as I know, they all passed away.

STONEY: So the is a summons -- uh, where is the -- oh, here's the date.

HONEYCUTT: Nineteen thirty-seven.

STONEY: The 28th day of 1937. Now, this was -- the strike ended, uh, almost four years --

HONEYCUTT: Three or four years.

STONEY: Uh, four -- three-and-a-half years after.

HONEYCUTT: Somewhere around there.

STONEY: Before then. Now -- and so, you just kept on, and kept on.

HONEYCUTT: They kept on and on, and -- and when we went to court, I forget what percentages of our wages they paid us. You know, we didn't make as much then as we do now.

STONEY: Yeah.

HONEYCUTT: But they did pay us a percentage of it.

STONEY: Mm-hmm.

HONEYCUTT: Not all of it, but everyone that's on there got a percentage of their wages -- this is how many -- was laid off.

STONEY: Mm-hmm. Well --

HONEYCUTT: The names of them.

STONEY: OK, the thing that interests us so much is that, we keep hearing, when we go back to people talking about that time, "The union went off and left us. The union didn't do anything." And this is proof that the union kept -- kept trying to help people.

HONEYCUTT: Well now, I'll tell you during the strike, when the home guards was there, now the union from New York sent us clothes -- just boxes of clothes, because the com-- was, uh, shipped to my husband.

STONEY: Mm-hmm.

HONEYCUTT: And we distributed them, you know, in the winter, to children and families that needed 'em. Now, and that come -- them clothes come from New 00:17:00York. Even my children wore some of 'em.

STONEY: What about the food at that time?

HONEYCUTT: Well, uh, my husband went to work for the WPA, and I don't know, it seemed to be like it didn't make, about three or four dollars a week. I don't know whether he made that much, not, but we got a certain amount of, uh, some kind of food from -- I don't -- I don't remember now whether it was the social service, or -- or what it come -- where it come from, but he got a certain amount of food, you know, that each one of 'em that was on this got -- we got some food. But I don't remember what it -- what had -- come. Now all the women went to work in making mattresses, and my husband, he worked out, just anything they had to do. I know one time, uh, up at Lake, uh, Fisher, you know where we'd get our water, the pumps froze up, and it was cold weather, and he had to get out there with boots on, and he had to, you know, get them things 00:18:00unfroze. (laughter) And it -- so it was pretty hard. It was not just like going (inaudible) an easy job; it was hard work for the men, to not make no more than they did, but it kept us alive, and kept us going. But if there will, there way.

STONEY: Uh, did you ever see any of those mattresses?

HONEYCUTT: Oh yes. Uh, my grandmother, they brought her one. We've -- keeping my grandmother. I talked to her when she was 75 years old; she lived to be 86. And she was living with me at the time, and uh, she had a little single bed, and they come and talk with us one day, and said -- want to know if we couldn't use one of the mattress, because they had to do something with 'em; they made 'em, and they brought my grandmother a mattress. I remember that. And it was a good one. They were felt mattresses.

STONEY: Well you know that program kept on up through about 1940. And I was working for a part of the US government called the Farm Security Administration. And I can 00:19:00remember talking with people who'd gotten those mattresses.

HONEYCUTT: Well, you know that mattress might be my youngest son's now. I don't know, because -- when -- it was a good mattress, and uh, my youngest son -- my oldest one, [Lester?], he's 66; my youngest one's 62. That girl that was in here, her husband. And, I had twin beds, you know, that -- two boys, that's all I had, and they had twin beds in there, because you used to -- pillow fight, and fight, you know.

STONEY: (laughter)

HONEYCUTT: Because Bill's five or six years older than Ted. So I got 'em a bed apiece, so when Ted, uh, got married and had a little boy, I said, "Well you take your bed home with you," because I ain't got room for it, so Bill -- Bill still sleeps on his in the back room in there.

STONEY: Well --

HONEYCUTT: So I think that mattress might be on that bed yet.

STONEY: Well, I think presently audiences wouldn't understand why those mattresses were so special, because in the first place, they used up surplus cotton, but also, they replaced a lot of, uh, corn 00:20:00shuck ticks. And, uh --

HONEYCUTT: Well, you know, they used to make the mattresses out of ticking, or cotton material. But now they're making 'em out of this, uh, nylon, or rayon, you can't keep a sheet on hardly to save your life. I wish they'd go back to the cotton ticking on mattresses. And I -- I said the last time I bought a new one here about a year ago, I said, I never want another one that I can't keep a sheet on. (laughter)

STONEY: (laughter) Tell the story about your -- your little boy, and the home guard.

HONEYCUTT: Oh, he was about -- he was born in --

STONEY: Just start, my -- my son.

HONEYCUTT: He probably was about three -- two or three years old. I can't remember just exactly how old he was. But imagine he was about two to three years old. And uh, he was always lively; everybody on the street picked at him, and he had a little old pop gun. And the home guards was out there, you know, every morning, from when time for him to go to work, that's why they was there, to let the ones go in that won't take the jobs to go in and work. And 00:21:00one of the neighbors come and said, "You better go out yonder and get Ted," said, "He's out there with that little gun, saying you better not go in that mill. You'll get shot." (laughter)

STONEY: (laughter)

HONEYCUTT: And, I never will forget that. Now I went out there -- I didn't even know he'd slipped off -- we just lived two houses from the gate, you know, just the second house from the mill.

STONEY: Well --

HONEYCUTT: Well he was out there, he was -- he was probably two or three years old.

STONEY: Was there any hard feelings with your neighbors?

HONEYCUTT: No. I've never had no -- no trouble with none of my neighbors, uh, there or anywhere else. Seemed like they always -- we've always got along with our neighbors, everywhere we go.

STONEY: How did people look on your husband, because he was a leader in the union.

HONEYCUTT: Well, if they did, they didn't say anything to us. You know, they didn't complain to us. I think everybody just does just like they do today; 00:22:00they want to vote one way, and another the other, that's your privilege, it's to do what you want to do. There are three things I don't ever like to hear, and that's arguing on politics, religion, and, uh -- things like that, because you're going to hurt somebody's feelings --

STONEY: Mm-hmm.

HONEYCUTT: -- because you know, you don't know who you're talking to. Might be pulling another way, so.

STONEY: Now, you were telling Judy about, uh, voting, and -- and your father.

HONEYCUTT: Now what?

STONEY: That your father, they wanted your father to vote a particular way --

HONEYCUTT: No, they asked -- they offered my husband a -- we was -- one time we had -- he changed jobs. This was not at that time, later on, and so, uh, we was working at -- uh, what you call Norcott Mill then. It's -- Brown and Norcott's right beside of each other, and uh, we needed a house. We 00:23:00couldn't get one, and we had moved in one room building that had been a store, and was living in it till we could get a house. And he wanted -- so he put in for a company house, and they told him, it was election year, you know, they told him then if, uh, he would vote like they wanted him to, they'd get him a house. And he said, "Well I'll just live in the store building." Because he was pretty stubborn about things like that.

STONEY: Uh, who told him that?

HONEYCUTT: His boss man. You know, the one he asked for the house. But that's been a long time ago.

STONEY: Do you think that was, uh, the boss man, or the owner of the factory, what?

HONEYCUTT: No, it was not the owner of the factory, it was the boss man, the one that you had to go to for -- you know, the things that you wanted. You didn't go to the head men; there was always somebody, you know, lower than the -- Mr. Cannon, that you just go to your boss man. But now, after that, they say, if you ever sue Cannon Mill, that you'll never work him no more, but we both 00:24:00worked for him, in our older age -- older years, you know. Because, uh -- uh, he went back and joined the navy in '42, or '43, you know, after the war, and uh, I hadn't worked in a long time, and I went to work at Cannon Mill in the sewing room and worked about two -- one whole summer, till I got my job back at Belk's. You know, I went back to work at the store, so he could go in service.

STONEY: Did you like working at Belk's better than the factory?

HONEYCUTT: Well, I -- one reason my job shut down that I was working at was just a season job. I was working in the sewing room, and they made, uh, shade cloth for tobacc'er beds, and so it was just a season thing, when certain times a year, it'd shut down, you know, and when it shut down, I went -- I had worked at Kenny's and McClellan, so I just decided to come back, and I got me a job 00:25:00at Belk's. And then when they started up, I just didn't go back, because I had a regular job there, you know.

STONEY: Now, some people have told us that, when they went into town from the -- from the cotton mill village on Mill Hill, that people in places like Belk's kind of looked down on 'em as "lintheads."

HONEYCUTT: I didn't ever -- uh, I was never subject to nothing like that. I mean as far as -- I -- I don't think that anybody ever just really mistreated us -- now I don't know. Sometimes there's a lot of other people that has bad attitudes too, you know. Now, I've never had no trouble in getting along with nobody. My neighbors, no nobody else. I've been here for over 50 years in this house, and all my neighbors that's died out now, except just two -- three of us, older neighbors, and we're getting your younger people in here, 00:26:00and getting children here again after ours was all gone. (laughter) But it -- times change.

STONEY: I know how that feeling, because, uh, a few years ago, I was -- there were nine people in my building of 37 apartments, nine people older than I was. Now I'm next to the oldest. They're all passing on.

HONEYCUTT: Passing on.

STONEY: Yup, yeah.

HELFAND: You know what, I'm so -- I'm still amazed that you held onto that paper after all these years. Isn't that something?

HONEYCUTT: You don't know what a packrat I've been. You just -- you just name it, if it ain't out in that old shop out yonder, it's in this attic, or in this house. And I told -- I got these two boys, I think -- feel sorry for 'em if anything happens to me. And I told Bill the other day; I said, "Lord, I hope we don't get sick, and have to come in here, ambulance take this out of here, all this stuff in this house, and he had -- he'd just come 00:27:00home from the hospital yesterday. But he didn't have to go in ambulance, I didn't -- (laughter)

STONEY: And what made you keep that paper all these years?

HONEYCUTT: I don't know, I was just -- I've got things stuck back that -- well I've been cleaning them out. I don't know why I didn't throw that one away. I just thought, well these boys will have all this mess to clean out. Receipts for things, I'd paid for 30 and 40 years ago; I just didn't throw 'em away. And I sat down, I decided to keep it, and get rid of all the bills except about three years back, and uh, the guarantees on anything I had bought, I get -- (laughter) save all that. But I don't know why, I just never throwed that away.

STONEY: Well, as -- you may know, the museums are beginning to get interested in telling the story of textiles.

HONEYCUTT: Mm-hmm.

STONEY: We were talking with a woman a couple of days ago, and found that she had been keeping a diary about her work ever since 1933, and she doesn't have 00:28:00any family. She was about ready to throw it out. Well, I -- I said, you can't do that. The museum is going to be interested. And the museum certainly was interested. This is over at Gastonia.

HONEYCUTT: You know, we have a museum down here about nine miles away from here at Mount Pleasant. That's where my daughter-in-law lives, Mount Pleasant, and they've got a nice museum down there, and I've -- a lot of little things that I've got, that I'll take down there. I like when I went work at Belk's way back years ago, we didn't have no cash registers then. We got them later on before I quit working for 'em, but we'd put out money in a -- a little brass thing, you know, write out a receipt, put it in there, and stick it on a line, and run up to the office back -- they gave me one then. I got one of them.

STONEY: I'd like to see that because, I was a check --

HONEYCUTT: And stick in right then -- right under the drawer. (laughter) I belong to the senior citizen's club, and we [catch?] something old, once a year, we have a show, you know, somebody carries something. And I carried that 00:29:00thing that I used to put my money in and send it up, and we had to stand there and wait for change to come back.

STONEY: To come back. I was a check boy at -- for a while, in a department store like that, and watched those things sailing back and forth.

HONEYCUTT: Yeah. That's way we got our -- done our bills in. Didn't handle no money, except just hand it to 'em when it come back to us, write out a bill.

STONEY: Where did you think your father got his ideas about unions?

HONEYCUTT: I don't have no idea, because back then, as young as I was, I just didn't, you know, pay any attention to it, I guess.

STONEY: Did he read union newspapers?

HONEYCUTT: Well he -- had a lot of newspapers, because when he died, he used to take the [the old Blading Ledger?] and all these newspapers, and the whole bookcase was stacked with all the World War I newspapers and things, and my 00:30:00brother, that was a pastor, he -- at Lincolnton, after my mother died, well he gave him all them papers. So I don't know what ever happened to 'em.

STONEY: And did -- did you read about unions before you joined?

HONEYCUTT: No, we went to meetings. We had union meetings and things like that, but just to sit down and read about it, I -- we just kind of grew up with it, you know, just grew on you.

STONEY: Tell me about the meetings.

HONEYCUTT: Well, I think we'd have a meeting -- it seemed to me like they used to be at the [Redmond's?] Hall. I don't know where those union meetings was, now, it's been so long ago. But I know about once -- once a week, we'd have a union meeting.

STONEY: What would happen?

HONEYCUTT: And I used to stay at home, kept the babies, and looked like grandma. Les went.

STONEY: But tell me -- you've been to some of them. Tell me what would happen at the meetings.

HONEYCUTT: Well, they'd just bring up -- just like any other meeting, just the businesses, and have the meeting, come to order, and the complaints, and the -- 00:31:00what some of them needed, and they helped each other, you know, during times like that.

STONEY: Would there be singing or music?

HONEYCUTT: No, it mostly was just like a business meeting.

STONEY: What about prayer?

HONEYCUTT: Well I don't remember about that. I don't remember what they did or not. It was not like going to church. Now, like our senior citizen meets, we always have devotions, and somebody will come and give devotions, or something like that. It was not like that. It was more -- more or less, just like a business meeting.

STONEY: That -- that was just a regular union meeting.

HONEYCUTT: Mm-hmm, just a regular union meeting. Now I don't know, Les went off to some of the other meetings after he got in it, but -- and he even worked out of town, would go and be gone a week at a time after he went to work for Fred Lis, you know.

STONEY: Tell me about Red Lisk.

HONEYCUTT: Well he --

STONEY: Just describe him.

HONEYCUTT: Well I can't hardly describe him except -- the reason he called him "Red," his hair was kind of reddish, you know. He was not just right bread 00:32:00-- red-headed, but he -- might have been when he was small. And, he was a nice looking guy, but uh, his hair was kind of reddish, and he was just an ordinarily -- maybe about that man's size, but he did gain a little weight after he got a little older, you know.

STONEY: But we've seen pictures of him, and he's always kind of dressed up like a businessman.

HONEYCUTT: Well he went that way all the time. He dressed nice.

STONEY: And your husband, when he was organizing?

HONEYCUTT: Yes, he went -- nicely dressed, as well as we could afford. (laughter) Yeah, Leslie, where's that paper that I -- this -- I got a set up cuff -- sterling silver cufflinks in here somewhere, that somebody -- he awar-- they awarded him this -- or gave it to him or something. I know they -- I've 00:33:00still got 'em here. And me selling junk all the time, and I said everything's gold and silver. It was bringing good [prizes?].

STONEY: (laughter)

HONEYCUTT: I never did sell them old sterling silver cufflinks.

STONEY: That's fascinating. TWA.

HONEYCUTT: You know when -- when the gold got high, and uh, silver, we told -- took -- I took all my old broke jewelry, you know, and stuff like that, and sold it while gold was high.

HELFAND: What does it say, Annie?

HONEYCUTT: TW-UA, uh, CIO. AF -- it's -- I can't -- now I -- my seeing is bad. Looks like AFL-CIO. Textile Workers of -- Union, of America. Textile Workers Union of America. 00:34:00Now I don't know what that TWUA means. Do you know --

STONEY: Textile Workers Union of America.

HONEYCUTT: Well yeah, I just read it, didn't I?

STONEY: I just wondered when -- when this was given to him?

HONEYCUTT: Back, all -- it must have been back in the -- the '30s, or somewhere along there. It was in the '30s, because, uh --

STONEY: So, he -- he really dressed up when he went out?

HONEYCUTT: Mm-hmm. He used to wear shirts -- they wore cufflinks. I think about it; I don't know how that got -- these are pictures she picked out.

STONEY: Uh-huh.

HONEYCUTT: This -- we [set?] here. She was looking for old pictures.

STONEY: Mm-hmm.

HONEYCUTT: Now this is Ted when he was the little boy that cut the --

STONEY: (laughter) This is the fellow who had the pop gun?

HONEYCUTT: The gun, he's -- he had the pop gun.

STONEY: He looks like he has a little meanness in him.

HONEYCUTT: There's his daddy.

STONEY: Uh-huh. Oh, he's got a cap on.

HONEYCUTT: Mm-hmm. Now, this is later on in years. That was him when he was a boy.

STONEY: Mm-hmm.

HONEYCUTT: That's his daddy when he was a boy.

STONEY: Oh, these are great pictures.

HONEYCUTT: And I -- I thought I had a picture of my daddy somewhere, and my mother together, but I found it. Now that was my daddy, now she's -- she had a letter that my daddy wrote, because she's telling me -- uh, reading it here one night, and I said, "Well that's my daddy." Now here's -- now Ted right there has got on one of them coats from New York that they sent down there in them boxes of clothes.

STONEY: Uh-huh.

HONEYCUTT: Now that's how little he was, you know, at that time.

STONEY: OK, we're going to get close --

(break in audio)

STONEY: Now, this is Ted with a New York coat on. (laughter)

HONEYCUTT: The New York coat on. It was wintertime -- cold weather, you know, when -- after the strike, and people was in really -- out of work, a lot of 00:36:00'em. And they sent this -- all these clothes to the union hall. Well they -- they were shipped to Les, and he distributed them, and what they, uh, found out from the union, you know, at the meetings, who needed clothes and who didn't. And, uh, so my children got coats out of them that winter.

STONEY: How'd you feel about your father and then your husband giving so much of their lives to the union?

HONEYCUTT: Well, I don't know, I think it just come natural. Just like it was a need that we needed; it just come natural. I never did -- it never did bother me too much.

STONEY: Was it -- did it have --

HONEYCUTT: Now the only thing that bothered me was when he went -- had to be -- took the job, and went off and organized it, like be gone a week, and I had two 00:37:00children in school and my grandmother to look after; now that kind of bothered me. I'd rather then he'd stayed at home and done his work around here, but I didn't uh -- I know we had to have a living; we had to make a living.

STONEY: Now, you've told us about Red Lisk. Could you tell us about any of the other organizers?

HONEYCUTT: I don't remember none of them but Red.

STONEY: What about Paul Christopher from Shelby?

HONEYCUTT: I don't remember him.

STONEY: He was a young fellow, just 24, 25, in -- in 1934.

HONEYCUTT: I don't -- I don't remember him at all. He -- but, uh --

STONEY: Do you remember a fellow named, uh -- the fellow who led the strike named Francis Gorman from -- he was from New York, and then from Washington?

HONEYCUTT: No, I -- I -- I don't remember him. Now -- now if Les was living, he -- he could probably tell you about all that, but I --

STONEY: Did, uh, Les go to New York for a convention?

HONEYCUTT: Mm-mm. He never did have that kind of money back then. 'Cause times was hard.

STONEY: They sent a delegation from -- from, uh, your area to the convention, and we haven't so far been able to find anybody who actually -- we found one person who went.

HONEYCUTT: Well I -- I know Les didn't. I don't know whether Red Lisk went or not, but I know --

STONEY: I'm not sure. Do you know whether -- no, no. This is a great picture of your father. Did you take pictures at that time?

HONEYCUTT: Uh, we had little old cameras and things, and I don't know where all these pictures come from. They just -- I've just -- I got a box just accumulated.

STONEY: Yeah, yeah.

HONEYCUTT: I imagine every picture that I've had and made, that's come to us for the last 67 years was in a box. (laughter)

STONEY: (laughter) Well these are so unusual be--

HONEYCUTT: That was my daddy when he was young.

STONEY: Ah.

HONEYCUTT: Yeah, she's got a letter from him --

STONEY: Uh-huh.

HONEYCUTT: -- from Brown Mill. But now he was heavy when he -- when he died.

STONEY: These are wonderful pictures. Uh, where was he living when this picture was taken here?

HONEYCUTT: Uh, in Concord here.

STONEY: Mm-hmm.

HONEYCUTT: I believe on Railroad Avenue.

STONEY: Now, d--

HONEYCUTT: That's where my Grandpa Henson died at, and I think that's where they were living on -- you know we called in Railroad Avenue --

STONEY: Mm-hmm.

HONEYCUTT: -- right at plant six up there.

STONEY: Where did, uh, your folks come from to come into Kannapolis?

HONEYCUTT: I don't know. They've been here in Concord ever-- now we moved from Charlotte, the Jar-- the Jarvises did. I was, uh -- my people come from the Jarvis side. That's where they married, you know, the Henson, and, uh, they -- they lived in Charlotte, Mecklenburg County.

STONEY: Did they -- (break in audio) pictures.

F_: Just keep -- no, keep those where you have them.

STONEY: Yeah.

F_: Right about there.

HELFAND: Might want to find a picture of Les.

STONEY: Yes.

HONEYCUTT: Yeah, he's got one that I think --

F_: Just keep looking through.

STONEY: OK, that's your father.

HONEYCUTT: The little one over there, that's --

STONEY: That's the father. This is her son, who had the pop gun. This is her father later on. And this is Les.

F_: Oh this one right there.

HONEYCUTT: That's -- yeah, that's --

STONEY: With the cap on.

HONEYCUTT: Mm-hmm. And then I got another one there with -- with a hat on. That was later on in years.

STONEY: Aha, then I made a -- make a mistake. Can I move now?

F_: Sure.

STONEY: Uh, maybe this is Les later on, I made a mistake then, uh, with the car?

HONEYCUTT: Mm-hmm.

STONEY: This --

HONEYCUTT: Yeah, that's him.

STONEY: OK, sorry Jamie. This is -- this is Les --

HONEYCUTT: Styles change. (laughter)

STONEY: Yeah, this is later on.

HONEYCUTT: Cap to a hat.

STONEY: Yeah.

HONEYCUTT: That's me when I was --

STONEY: And the car.

HONEYCUTT: It's as old as I am. (laughter)

STONEY: (laughter)

F_: Let me see that again, ma'am?

HELFAND: Annie, can you hold that up again?

F_: Right from where you are.

HONEYCUTT: Oh this.

F_: Yes, ma'am.

STONEY: (laughter)

HONEYCUTT: Wait a minute, let me get it.

HELFAND: That was you when you were a baby?

HONEYCUTT: And I'll be 85 year old 21st of next month.

STONEY: Wow. Well you've done well.

F_: No bearskin rug?

STONEY: Oh, the -- the Lord's been --

CREW: No bearskin rug?

HONEYCUTT: No bearskin rug.

STONEY: (laughter) Oh, the Lord's been good to you.

HONEYCUTT: With the -- if I fall many more times though. (laughter) I've got arthritis in one of my knees, and it sometimes get sore, and I start getting yonder -- in the bathroom and hit that [heating hall?] and start falling, and keep from hitting my head on the commode. (laughter)

STONEY: Mm-hmm.

HONEYCUTT: I hit a place that my boy put me on -- a thing on the bathtub to pull 00:42:00up and down, and that's what struck my arm. (laughter)

STONEY: Well one thing we haven't talked about is what it was like to work in the mills.

HONEYCUTT: I enjoyed working in the mills. Now myself, I reckon that's just all I know, because I went to work in the -- uh, when I went to work in the mill, I was 14 year old, and I was little for my age. And uh, my, uh, mother, you know, she had to have a work card, and to prove that I was 14 years old -- you know, back then you could go to work when you was 14, I was so little, uh, they didn't believe it. And they, uh -- she had to get somebody that had known me from the time I was born to prove that I was that age, because I was little for my age. And, you wouldn't look at it now --

STONEY: (laughter)

HONEYCUTT: -- wouldn't think it now, because (laughter). But, uh, when I went to work, uh, the lady that learnt me how to spin, they'd give us our sides 00:43:00together, well she learnt me how to put up the ends, you know I could do that. But I couldn't reach the roping. And she'd done all the creeling up above, and let me go along and put up the ends, and then they added more sides to her, because -- and me, just to help her. We run 'em together, that's the way I learned, till I got long enough to, uh, old -- you know, got where I could, uh, reach my roping by taking a stick and sticking it in the spools, and letting it fall down, and getting it and creeling it, till I -- and whenever the -- once a year, the inspector would come through on account of, uh, children working, you know, back in the mills at that time, and the day before the inspector'd come, they'd always know when he's coming. "Well Annie, you can be out tomorrow."

STONEY: (laughter)

HONEYCUTT: Because they was afraid they'd have problems of thinking I was underage, you know. But it was because I was just that small. I was that old, but...

STONEY: What shift did you work on?

HONEYCUTT: First.

STONEY: Did you ever work at night?

HONEYCUTT: Not when I was young. I don't -- I did after I was married.

STONEY: What -- uh, just describe what it was -- feel like, smell like, uh -- you -- you know, as a child, you went in, it must have --

HONEYCUTT: Well I guess you just grew up, and I know there's a lot of lint, and a lot of cotton, you know, lint lying around, and all but -- I think if you grew up in it, it just didn't bother you. You just didn't pay that much attention to it.

STONEY: Did you ever have trouble with your breathing?

HONEYCUTT: No, but I have since I got old. But uh, now, uh, I had one aunt that had this, uh -- took asthma [spad?]. Now they retired her young, you know, on account of her asthma, from the work she'd done. I think she worked in the card room, though. It seemed like she did.

STONEY: Oh, the spinning room, which where, I guess most of the lint was.

HONEYCUTT: Yeah, and the card room too, I -- I've worked in spinning room all the time. Now during the -- uh, in '42, when my husband went back in service, 00:45:00and I hadn't worked none since in the '30s, I'd stayed home, took care of the kids, and uh, I went in and learnt to run drawings. You know, back then, women went on men's jobs to -- uh, for the husbands to be in service, because they were all gone. And I learnt to run drawings, and work till I went back to work at Belks, until I went to work at Belks. But it was hard on me; boy I lost weight when I went, (laughter) and I liked doing that job. It was a man's job. (laughter) And I know I was so short, I couldn't reach down in them big ole cans and -- and get my cotton. I got a wooden finger here somewhere. They took a quill that thread was wound on, it's about this long, it had a hole in it, and slanted it off, and made me a finger, to put on my finger to reach the cotton down in there. I got that old finger here somewhere.

STONEY: (laughter) Was it, uh, hot in there?

HONEYCUTT: I don't think it was -- they had windows open then, back then. But then they claimed that having that air in there made the work run bad. You know, and they gradually closed the windows up, and -- and, uh, they didn't have the windows open. We used to sit in the windows, get our hands up, you know, and go sit in the window that was raised, and rest. Now back then, we had more freedom than they do now. The mills weren't wired up. And over there at, uh, Brown Mill, we'd get our ends up and run across the street to the café and get us a cone of ice cream, go back. They didn't -- or we'd go out in the yard. As long as we kept our work going. But now, you know, they'd put fences around there and you're not allowed in and out. So, there's a lot of difference in it now than it was back then.

STONEY: Do you remember when they started speeding up the machinery, and it had something called -- that the union called a "stretch-out"?

HONEYCUTT: Uh, I -- I don't think I was working at that time. I'm -- not worked in the mill, but just, uh, maybe eight or nine months, in the '40s, since the '30s. See I -- I didn't work -- I couldn't -- I wouldn't even know how to run this machinery they got now.

STONEY: Well let -- back then, you were -- uh, you were working ten hours a day, or 11 hours a day.

HONEYCUTT: Ten.

STONEY: And then what happened when Roosevelt came in?

HONEYCUTT: Well we worked 10 hours a day till, uh, I guess, till my youngest son -- you know, when my children come along, they went only eight hours. Now they're on 12, 12 hours a day.

STONEY: What do you think about that?

HONEYCUTT: Well, I don't know whether he's groaning about it now, they did at first, but, uh -- he's, uh -- he's going to retire in December, so he won't have long -- much longer to go. They just put him on it. Now, what he, 00:48:00uh -- uh, decided to retire, he had a heart attack about four or five months ago, and uh, the doctor's just let him go back to work; he had to have three bypasses, but, uh, till he put in for disability anything, it would take him from now to December to ever get it through if he could get it, and he'll be old enough to retire in December, so he said, he just went and bought him 25 acres down on the river and put in a mobile home down there, said he's going to fish, said -- he might have another heart attack, and he might not ever have one, but said he was going to take it easy; said he'd worked long enough, and he's gonna retire. So, he'll be 62 in December. That's Ted, the one that had the gun.

STONEY: (laughter)

HONEYCUTT: But now, he -- he didn't like this 12-hour work at the beginning. And then one -- one thing that he didn't do; he was an electrician foreman for years. Well he -- Cannon Mill, though, give him a good education, you know, and schooling, because, uh they sent him off to school for -- he can draw anything 00:49:00he wants to, and he sent him off to school for him to draw patterns for their bedspreads and sheets and things, but you got to wait in line till somebody die, but Mr. Harmon found out he could draw like that, this superintended here, and he asked him to take it. So he took the training for that, but then when he went in the Navy, studied electrician, went to school here for that then, and one of them died in the electric shock, and Mr. Harmon wanted him to switch -- you know, they needed him there. So he went in there, and he weren't there too long to put him foreman of the job, and so he worked there for a long time, and then when they closed down plant six, uh, they offered him a boss man job of, uh -- the machine shop ordering the parts for all the Cannon Mills, you know. So, he went to work there, and here about, uh, the time they put in on 12 hours, they began to cut down on these boss men, you know, like, uh, cutting out some -- I think they cut out five; well that cut him out and put him back to 00:50:00labor. He's -- he's making regular hour wages now. Well he would have quit right then, but he said he's just too near old enough to retire. So he stayed on with it, and, uh -- but he's [said?], I'm not gonna -- when they -- this other boss man come. Now, he was the white collar boss man; he said he can't do what I done, because he -- Ted drawed all them blueprints for that electric shock. Anything went wrong, they didn't -- nobody know'd nothing about them because he'd draw the blueprints for it. And -- but he does, call him at the middle of the night, and something's happened over there. "Ted, would you go over there and straighten it out?" But now they agreed to a while back, if he would do this, they'd pay him his boss man wages. So, he said he's going to stick -- he said, "Mom, I got too much in it to lose, as near as I am, old enough to retire."

STONEY: Now back -- back in the -- in the early '30s, when your husband and your father were in the union, uh, did -- were they ever afraid, and had guns around, uh...?

HONEYCUTT: I never did see no guns. Les never did have no guns around our children. My daddy, I never did know him to have -- well my daddy had a pistol. As far as violence, but they didn't have talk -- now, there are always some hotheads that -- you know, that's got to be in something like that. They -- that way today, there are always just a few people that's gonna -- can you excuse me a minute?

HELFAND: Oh, absolutely.

STONEY: Sure. OK? OK.

HONEYCUTT: That picture there, that --

M_: Mike up, Jim.

STONEY: Yeah. Oh, the Weavers.

HONEYCUTT: You said -- she was saying it as well.

M_: Yeah, that's great.

HONEYCUTT: I don't how many -- I don't know how many old records is in here that's closed up.

STONEY: How'd you happen to get this?

HONEYCUTT: That was my husband. I -- I got, uh --

STONEY: My Fair Lady, I remember that.

HONEYCUTT: Well there -- there are a lot of them. They -- there are records in here that come from Texas --

STONEY: Uh-huh.

HONEYCUTT: That, uh -- it's in here closed up, and I can tell my grandson --

STONEY: Mm-hmm.

HONEYCUTT: -- I'm going to give him this record player and all these records, or let him have what he wants of them.

STONEY: And you're going to be showing me the thing in the drawer.

HONEYCUTT: Oh. This. You see, we'd put our money and our bills in this. And then we'd close it up, and there was an electric -- I reckon it was electric wire that we'd put on it.

STONEY: Uh-huh.

HONEYCUTT: It would shoot it up to the office. They'd put our change back in it, and then we'd get the change out and give it to our customer.

STONEY: I worked in -- one Christmas, or two Christmas's, I worked in a department store as a check boy, and I saw that happening all over.

HONEYCUTT: Well -- well that's -- so whenever I put up there, and they'd done away with all that, they'd give me -- when they got us cash registers, they'd give me one of them.

STONEY: Uh-huh.

HONEYCUTT: Because I've had it ever since.

STONEY: And all these dolls here?

HONEYCUTT: Oh, that's just part of them. (laughter) I got dolls packed up and packed up. These are outdated dolls, discontinued, you know, back -- uh, or they don't make 'em anymore.

STONEY: Mm-hmm.

HONEYCUTT: And my china dolls, they're all packed in boxes. See my son, when he'd come to live with me, I had that room -- use it just for dolls, and I had about a 30-year collection.

STONEY: (laughter)

HONEYCUTT: And I've sold a lot of them, so whenever he'd come here, just say I had to move my dolls out, and that's why they packed up here.

STONEY: Uh-huh.

HONEYCUTT: No, I had a -- a doll sale, and once in a while, I'd throw 'em out here, and run an ad in the paper. [A lot that I wanted?] want to keep, you know. And there are a lot of doll collectors now.

STONEY: Why don't you sit over there just a moment, and -- (clears throat)

HONEYCUTT: Well they've got this staple pushed in here, where I can't get in it.

STONEY: OK, let's see if we can help.

HONEYCUTT: They'll have to move it out again tomorrow. (laughter)

STONEY: OK, that's (inaudible).

HONEYCUTT: Ya'll getting a picture of my house when it's in its worst taste.

STONEY: (laughter)

HONEYCUTT: Because I had china everywhere. That was my mother's old safe.

STONEY: Judy wanted me to -- to see if I could go -- we could go over, uh, some of the things we've been talking about. Now how is that Jaime, for, uh, this --

(break in audio)

STONEY: OK, one look at me here, and just say, "Hello Ronnie." OK?

HONEYCUTT: You want me to say, "Hello Ronnie"?

STONEY: Yes, uh-huh.

HONEYCUTT: Hello Ronnie.

STONEY: (laughter) Good. And one more, let's--

(break in audio)

STONEY: -- see if, uh, we can, uh, get you to help us remember how people organized back then. We know that there was a great big strike. We know that literally, hundreds of thousands of people came out. But there was a lot of effort that made that happen, and you were one of the few people who was around 00:55:00then. So could you tell us...

HONEYCUTT: Well, uh, mostly that -- they would talk to each other when we'd be in groups, or crowds, or -- uh, what -- it -- news spreads, you know, with, uh -- then they'd have to start having union meetings, you know, with anybody that wanted to go could go, but a lot of it was done just by talking to people. You know, anybody, to see who was interested in joining the union, and they weren't -- you could soon find out just by talking to people, just like they do in politics kind of, you know, just, uh, spread the word around, and some people's for it; some people ain't.

STONEY: Wasn't there a fear of, uh, company spies?

HONEYCUTT: I don't know; I never did -- did have no fear of nothing, myself. You know, when you're younger, you don't -- now, right now, the way the 00:56:00world is, we'd think about somebody breaking in and stealing stuff. There's (inaudible). She'll get it.

STONEY: Mm-hmm. But --

HONEYCUTT: I hope she didn't get it on that tape. (laughter)

STONEY: (laughter)

HONEYCUTT: What I said.

STONEY: Uh, could you tell us about, uh, then -- do you remember the -- were the women's group particularly, or what did the women do?

HONEYCUTT: Well, we just done like the men; we'd get -- now, whenever we'd get our work done up a long time ago, we'd get called up. We'd go to the restroom. I went in there many a time just to sit and talk. The women would dip the snuff, and we'd sit down and -- sit down on the floors, squat down on the floors, you know just around, it was a big restroom, you know. And that's where we'd gather up to take a break, when we'd get our -- you know, our 00:57:00ends up on our spinning frames, and -- I know when I tried to learn to dip snuff -- (laughter) because, I thought, well that look so good, you know. I thought, well I'd try it. Lord, I never have been so sick. I never took but one dip. I never did dip no snuff no more, but I'd go out there and watch the -- sit and talk with the rest. And there's where we'd spread to talk to each other. You'd soon, uh, learn what was going on, whenever we'd go to take our breaks and get together, and, uh, it don't take, uh, news long to spread. And you soon learn who you can talk to about it, and who not to, because if they're against it, you just well, hush, and first thing you know you got a new member, and you know, somebody else is for it. And -- and a lot of it was talk, like that. But now, that -- it had to be kept quiet, because the boss manager (inaudible) thing, you know, got a -- hold of it, a lot of times you 00:58:00lost your job.

STONEY: Did you see?

HELFAND: Change tape.