JUDITH HELFAND: What we're trying to understand is how history's been
used over time, you know, an-an-and you really experienced one specific period of time.L.C. WRIGHT: Well, we didn't have the support in '70 -- I mean in '85 --
that we did in '74. We just never could their support there.STONEY: Mm-hmm? And the company used the same tactics in '85?
L.C. WRIGHT: Yeah.
STONEY: OK, well that's -- We just wanna get an idea that within three
campaigns, the same tactics used in each case.L.C. WRIGHT: Well, now, I don't know about this -- this last one, because I
wasn't in there.STONEY: OK, OK. But so you could talk about '74, --
L.C. WRIGHT: Yeah.
STONEY: -- particularly in this thing. And use that phrase again -- they don't
-- they didn't want you to forget about that.L.C. WRIGHT: That's right.
STONEY: They don't want people to forget about this. OK?
JAMIE STONEY: Whenever you're ready.
00:01:00STONEY: OK. We've got some pictures of the things back in '34. I wonder if
you've ever seen any of these.L.C. WRIGHT: Yeah, I've seen 'em. They had 'em bulletin boards all over
the plant back in '74, and they brought in truckloads of plywood to make bulletin boards out of, and, uh, they had all this in there -- to scare the people -- to show how they done 'em in the '29 and '34 -- run 'em off with machine guns and things, to scare the people, what they'd do if the union came in and everything, and what kind of violence it would be.STONEY: Did you recognize that picture?
MARY WRIGHT: Oh yeah.
STONEY: Where it was?
MARY WRIGHT: It was about two blocks from where I lived at that time.
STONEY: And this?
00:02:00L.C. WRIGHT: Yeah, this was on there too. It was, uh, all a newspaper clipping,
and then all these pictures was on the bulletin board in '74, and, uh, it told about all the events that took place, and how much violence there was, and -- and talk about how they run the union outta town, and, uh, it was all over the plants, from end of the plant to the other.STONEY: Did you ever see this, perhaps? That's the scariest one of all, to me.
L.C. WRIGHT: Yeah, that was on the bulletin boards too, back in '74. Uh, it
showed 'em with their machine guns, and how they would treat the union people, and, uh, they still stickin' that in their heads today, what they would do if the union came in there, and they still got this in their mind. Uh, it's been 00:03:00handed down to 'em through generations, uh, that the union was a bunch of crooks, and, uh, you can't trust 'em. They don't realize that the government has passed some laws now that will protect 'em from this kinda action and things. If the labor laws hadn't been passed to protect 'em, this here scenery would be takin' place today. There's no doubt about it in my mind, what it would happen today if it hadn't been for the government passin' the labor laws.STONEY: And of course the labor laws got passed because of unions.
L.C. WRIGHT: That's right.
STONEY: Uh, what about this? Do remember when the -- when the troops were here?
MARY WRIGHT: No, uh-uh. I was seven, and I shoulda remembered that, but I don't.
STONEY: What about you? Do you remember --
00:04:00L.C. WRIGHT: No, I can't remember when the troops was here. I wasn't here in
this town at that time. Uh, all I knew about is I read it on the bulletin board time after time, back in the campaigns that we had through the years, uh, about how they done. But I seen the pictures of it before.STONEY: OK, thank you. OK, that does it, I think. Uh, Judy, any other ideas?
HELFAND: Well, I just -- um, I wonder, you know -- it's -- it's really
something for people -- a lot of people think, you know, and ol-- older folks, once they have set in their mind, you know, they can't change. And so it's really something to grow up in a -- in a... Maybe you could describe this town a little bit when you were growing up.MARY WRIGHT: Well, I didn't -- We didn't grow up here.
HELFAND: You didn't grow up here? Weren't you seven years old in Concord?
00:05:00MARY WRIGHT: I was -- I grew up in Concord.
(inaudible)
HELFAND: That's OK.
STONEY: We'll just wait a minute.
L.C. WRIGHT: Get up here. Get up there and sit down.
HELFAND: So you grew up in Concord?
MARY WRIGHT: Yeah.
L.C. WRIGHT: Turn around and sit.
HELFAND: So you know of –
JAMIE STONEY: Movie dog.
HELFAND: A lot of the people that we've been trying to -- one of the -- First
of all, one of the things that we're trying to understand is -- since we've been trying to gather this history -- is how history has -- has changed -- has been used over time, so you really help us out with these pictures. Is there anything else that you can -- When you think about our -- our storyline, what we're looking for, is there anything else that you wanna add to that, or that makes you think about?L.C. WRIGHT: Well, I think, through the years, there's a few more of 'em is
gettin' more understandin' about the situation, and, uh, I think in time, it's, uh -- the people is gettin' educated, and things -- time will change 00:06:00-- but it will take a while. It's gonna take a major effort, but the union -- when they win an election -- to make it work. Uh, their job, I think, will just be begun when they win some elections, uh, because, uh, they gonna have to show the people that it'll work and pay off for 'em before the South'll ever go union.STONEY: Well, now, what do -- Do you think that the retirees have a particular
role to play?L.C. WRIGHT: Well, I think they ought to -- ought to have a particular role, as
much as they've been worked and put out to --STONEY: Could you start off with the "think that retirees"?
L.C. WRIGHT: Yeah, I think the retirees should have somethin' to play in it,
because they've been worked and abused, and put out, and had their retirement took away from 'em, their insurance taken away from 'em... Uh, if they 00:07:00can't have some impact on it, uh, I don't know what will happen to 'em, because, uh, I think they should be able to learn somethin' from those retirees.STONEY: Well, my own concern is that, if the retirees -- and I'm facing that
myself -- don't take an interest in what's happening to the young people, and the middle-aged people, we're gonna be -- we're gonna suffer as well.L.C. WRIGHT: That's true. Uh, there's not gonna be anybody there to pay our
social security and stuff, if, uh, we don't do somethin' for our young people, because, uh, the way it's goin', uh, all the manufacturing jobs gonna be gone, look like. All the good payin' jobs are leavin', seem like. If they don't do somethin', the kids comin' outta high school and college today will never have the opportunity that we had, and the companies that done 00:08:00learned that they can break their word anytime they want to. And if they don't learn to stick together and get a contract with a good union,that they're gonna be a lot worser off than we are.STONEY: OK.
HELFAND: L.C., if you grow up hearing that if you join the union you're gonna
lose or job, or get evicted from your house, and that the whole town doesn't need it, what -- how do you break that cycle of passing those stories down? I mean, how are people gonna change if that's what they believe?L.C. WRIGHT: Well, now, uh, the houses is bein' sold now. Mr. Murdoch come in,
and they bought the place, and they sellin' the houses, and the people lived in 'em all their life, couldn't afford to buy 'em. And, uh, that just goes to show 'em that nobody's gonna take care of you from the cradle to the grave, I think. Uh, you're gonna have to look out for yourself and your own 00:09:00well-being, and I think that's one thing our young people and our old people is gonna have to help one another on, uh, to help each other stay up where they all won't have to live in poverty, because if the young people stays in poverty, and don't never have an opportunity to move up in this world, there ain't gonna be nobody to take care of us old folks.M: Do you think it makes a difference whether you buy a union product or a
non-union made product?L.C. WRIGHT: Yeah, I think it makes a difference, uh, because, uh, I feel like
when a man is buyin' union-made products, he's showin' his patriotism to his fellow man, and, uh, I really think that, uh, we've lost a lot of our patriotism in this country, that that's one thing that's got us in such 00:10:00trouble. Uh, we've let the Japanese use their patriotism to break us, just about. And we went along with 'em, helpin' 'em. We think about the consumer buyin' American-made products -- that's true. We ought to buy American-made products, but big business has sold us out too. Big businesses went to Japan and Europe, and they buyin' -- they movin' their factories over there, and buyin' their machinery over there, but then they expect their workers to go out here and buy American products. One can't do it by theirselves. Uh, they all gonna have to go back to some patriotism for this country to ever get it outta the hole.STONEY: Right. OK.
HELFAND: One more thing. Mrs. -- Mrs. Wright, you've -- you've brought us
over to -- to, uh -- to Annie Honeycut.MARY WRIGHT: Uh-huh.
HELFAND: And you said that you knew that her husband had been active in the union?
00:11:00MARY WRIGHT: No, I said her niece told me about it. You gave me the name, and I
called, uh -- which is my aunt.HELFAND: I gave you the name of Lester Cook.
MARY WRIGHT: Yeah. And I called her, and, you know, then she -- she took -- got
in touch with Miss Honeycut. I didn't actually know them.HELFAND: What's been so incredible about her -- about Annie Honeycut -- is
that she's proud of what they did. And we had such a hard time finding people who aren't -- who are willing to talk about their participation in the union in the past. So many of them are ashamed of it.L.C. WRIGHT: Well, there's one thing about it, I think. Uh, when a man gets in
there and learns what the union's about, and learns that he's got rights under the law, I think that makes him proud. Uh, I really think that everybody -- if they knew their rights -- they would have a lot better working conditions 00:12:00today. Uh, there's people that's -- right here in this town -- that don't think workin' people should have any rights, and don't think they've got any rights. Uh, I know my daughter went to work in, uh, Mocksville, and they all went on strike. Well, my daughter used to go with me to union meetings and things, so they asked her what we're gonna do. Said, "Well," said, "we gotta get as a union," and, uh, started tellin' 'em about what kinda rights they had, you know? And they said, "Well, Lord, we didn't know we had any rights." And they made 'em a union there in two days' time. Uh, they got the cards signed. The company tried to run 'em off and everything. My daughter told 'em, said, "The government gives me this right to organize a union, so that's what we're doin'." And they'd go on and come back 00:13:00with somethin' else to threaten 'em with. But they organized that union in two days. And Bob Freeman -- they struck one day, and by the next day at ten o'clock, he had filed 64 grievances and petitioned for an election. And they won their election.STONEY: Oh, we need more Bob Freemans around don't we?
HELFAND: (laughs)
L.C. WRIGHT: Bob Freeman, one of the smartest --
M: What I wanna do real quick is -- you sit here, and I'm gonna go stand in
the yard and get a master opener --L.C. WRIGHT: OK. But just -- if -- could you just sit that...
L.C. WRIGHT: Bob Freeman...
STONEY: Yeah.
L.C. WRIGHT: Uh, to be honest with you, he teached me more... He's the kinda
feller can make a man proud, uh, to learn what his rights is. Uh, Bob Freeman has done more for this town that hasn't been appreciated than any man I know 00:14:00of, for the workin' people. Now, that oughta be on the head of your picture. (laughs) But that's a fact. That man, he was an organizer, and he was a fine man with it. Lotta people that kicked Bob Freeman, but he was a genius in what he does, and he was a -- he was so much involved with people, tryin' to help 'em. He would do anything to try to help the people, and he raised the standards of livin' of these people in this town more than any man I know of in the history of this town, by comin' in here, organizin' -- or tryin' to organize 'em, -- and teachin' 'em what their rights was.STONEY: Well, it's interesting that Freeman was never able to get a union in
00:15:00the -- in this plant, but he left 'em the legacy that was still very important.L.C. WRIGHT: That's true. Uh, Bob Freeman laid the foundation for the union in
the South, just about it. He organized Central Motor Lines when it belonged to [Canon?], and, uh --STONEY: I didn't know that.
L.C. WRIGHT: Well, he did, and, uh, it was a good union. And, uh, Bob Freeman
has laid the foundation for the people through the South. He's went into the people, where the Klan was there, and everywhere else, and been chased with 'em. But, uh, that man has got some stories that could make your hair stand up, what's happened to him. If there's one man that I would put on top, it would be Bob Freeman. Now, I don't know how the rest of the union feels about him, 00:16:00but he teached us more here about unions than any one man I know of.STONEY: Well, I've heard this from some other people, and I must say that when
we went up there and we did some recording with him, that the men who were -- the men whom he brought in felt very much the same way.L.C. WRIGHT: Uh, if it hadn't of been for Bob Freeman, I don't know if
anybody could ever have got this thing off the ground, because he had the foundation laid, and, uh, when this place is unionized, uh, I think Bob Freeman should have a big percentage of the credit.HELFAND: George, do me a favor.
STONEY: Yeah?
HELFAND: Can you just tell them, um, very briefly, sort of where -- how we've
been try-- 00:17:00[16:50] (break in audio)
STONEY: [17:45] We've been traveling around the South for the last three
summers, trying to make a film about the history of textile labor. As you know, the history of textiles have been told almost entirely from the point of view of the people at the top -- the owners and the manufacturers, and maybe the people 00:18:00who invented the machinery -- uh, but very, very little from the standpoint of -- of the workers. There have been a few books about poor, downtrodden cotton mill hands, written by, uh, people usually from the North. They want people to pity them. But there's very little been written about the strength of the workers and what they accomplished, and particularly very little about the textile workers trying to do something for themselves, through organization, and yet we know that, since the 1890s, there have been attempts to unionize, right the -- particularly in South, there have been a lot of attempts. And one of the reasons we wanted to talk with you is because you have -- you have gone through some of that yourselves. And so you've told us about the '74 experience here 00:19:00in Kannapolis, and we hadn't gotten that before. We're concentrating on the -- the big effort in 1933, '34, because that was the biggest demonstration of strength that there has been in textiles, particularly in the South, when over 500,000 people came out and declared themselves for the union. And it was a defeat -- we have to recognize that -- but it also was a demonstration that a lot of textile workers have a history of organization. And so that's what we've been trying to do.HELFAND: And tell them about how, when you were growing up, you had no idea that
cotton mill workers could be --STONEY: Well, I grew up in Winston-Salem, and in
a kind of lower middle class family, and I didn't realize it, but I was really 00:20:00kind of being persuaded. The cotton mill people were a breed apart. We weren't like them. And I didn't realize how much that had influenced my view of -- of those people, until I started this trip, and I've been constantly surprised by the strength and the independence of these people, and I hope that my film will reflect that, because every time we -- we get with people in the either pro or anti-union -- doesn't necessarily mean that they're all pro-union by any means -- but it means that they're people with a lot more strength than I was reared to believe.L.C. WRIGHT: That's true. They got strength, but, um, I think there's some
-- a lotta learnin' and experience in the unionized field. I think like -- 00:21:00like a lotta knowledge of what an organization can do for 'em. Now, since my daughter has been sick -- she's been diagnosed with terminal cancer.STONEY: She's the mother of --
L.C. WRIGHT: She's the mother of this little child here, and every union
person that I have ever known has come to my support. And anything they could do, they was willin' to do. All I had to do was just call on 'em. And I have real -- uh, a huge bunch of friends in that union organization, and I treasure every one of 'em. I've had information got to me from Washington, the university hospitals around the country -- they have gathered for me, they sent 00:22:00it to me by mail, telephone -- and they have been a -- a backbone of support for me. And I just wonder how many people in this town, that the companies had went outta their way to support a man's child when they was terminally ill with something. Uh, now, you have to know union people to love 'em. [They?] know how to stick with you, and, uh, when you get to know 'em, you'll be proud of 'em. And I'm proud of every one of 'em, and I respect every one of 'em, because they're strong people and they know their own mind. Uh, these companies put it out -- say "The union wants to do think-- your thinkin' for 00:23:00you." But I found out one thing in my lifetime -- that the companies wants to keep you think' for yourself, but, uh, they don't want the union in there helpin' you think for yourself. Uh, they know, when you got an organization arou-- a union behind 'em, it's gonna cost 'em, because they're gonna lose sooner or later. And these people in this textile business is, uh -- they gotta win every time. But the union's just gonna have to win one time, and when they win that one time, and show the people what they're gonna do --[23:37] (break in audio)
L.C. WRIGHT: [23:39] -- there won't be nowhere else for 'em to go to for
cheap labor in this country.STONEY: What is going to happen if the union doesn't win this next campaign?
L.C. WRIGHT: Well, it'll be just like it's always been. They'll --
They'll give 'em a cost of livin' raise while the union's here, and it 00:24:00might be five years before they get another cost of living if the union leaves. And what little bit of benefits they got will be taken away from 'em, one at a time, their jobs will be stretched out more, they'll have to produce more for less money, uh, just like it's been all during the history of it. And, uh, big managements will get richer, and they'll get poorer, and their children will still be in poverty 100 years from now, if people don't take a stand to help their selves a little bit. The union can't hand you somethin' for nothin', so people has to pay these people to help. If you're not willin' to get out here and help yourself a little bit, you can't expect other people to throw it in your lap. Uh, I really believe that people is gonna have to start takin' 00:25:00responsibility for their selves and their well-being and the family. And when they get that, you'll find that they'll start makin' progress.STONEY: Good.
M: So this little one here is a real good reason, right?
L.C. WRIGHT: That's right. Uh, I'm hopin' that she'll have a lot better,
uh --HELFAND: (laughs) She sure is a...
L.C. WRIGHT: -- life and society. This country was built on unions, and, uh, the
Constitution was built on a union. And if we lose our unions, we're gonna lose it all.STONEY: OK.
M: Hang on. I'm goin' in on a little --
STONEY: Thank you.
[Audio ends at 25:55]