Fr. George Kloster and Ernest Moore and Ruby Moore Interviews

Special Collections and Archives, Georgia State University Library
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GEORGE STONEY: One of the -- one of the interesting things to me is that while the l-- the Loray strike of 1929 may not be a part of admitted history, everybody knows the story. It’s w-- it’s whispered. And what we’re trying to do is to take that history and make it acceptable by showing that there were two sides that -- why it happened, what the workers were after. And we were just down in the museum, uh, with, uh, the local -- local officials in the -- in the museum, and were discussing with him the new instillation there. And he says that they are going to be getting -- put more worker history into the museum.


GEORGE KLOSTER: I think one of the things that’s going to be interesting to see what happens in this community is what happens to that plant. As you know, Firestone is moving out.


GEORGE KLOSTER: Um, I would suspect that there’d be a lot of people in this community that would feel, you know, if that plant were just knocked down, then that would -- that would take away another part of the history. As long as it’s standing there --

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah, yeah.

GEORGE KLOSTER: -- it’s an image to that moment.


GEORGE KLOSTER: If it’s gone, then it’s going to be another way to help bury what people want buried. And there’s some speculation of, well, maybe they can make it into a museum, or into apartments, or whatever. I think it’s going to be interesting to see what happens to that building.

GEORGE STONEY: OK. OK. You need [nineties?] from this position, Jamie?

CREW: (inaudible) I got it.

GEORGE STONEY: OK. We’d better go.



CREW: (inaudible)

GEORGE STONEY: Oh, no. Yeah. I think that --

GEORGE KLOSTER: Uh, the -- the -- the Begley committee.

CREW: Uh-huh.


GEORGE KLOSTER: Um, well, basically, what -- what Bishop Begley did when he was approached by Stevens is that he got in contact with the other bishops, because Stevens had so many plants. I think what he did was he got the bishops together of all the diocese where Stevens had plants. And they studied the issue. Now, there was a Catholic priest who was working for the union at the time. And he was very, uh, influential in terms of trying to get the churches to understand what the issues were. But the bottom line was that we had some very progressive bishops back in those days, and, uh, if my recollection is correct, um, that they really did stand with the right of the union and the right of the workers, uh, and were more supportive of -- uh, at the bottom line, would be more supportive of the union than they were of Stevens, which would have been consistent with our -- with our tradition.

JUDITH HELFAND: What’s consistent with the -- with the tradition, and what goes -- uh, what goes over with your constituency are two different things.


GEORGE KLOSTER: That’s right. That’s right. And that’s -- and that was the difference, you see? We were consistent with our tradition, but it -- it was very, um, very opposed by the Catholic managers, because, uh, they could identify -- see, the Catholic managers could identify with -- more with the Stevens managers than they could with their own Catholic theological tradition. I don’t think that’s surprising. I think for most people, as much as it might be difficult for me to admit it, I think it’s i-- most people probably identify more with their job than they do with their church, more of a sense of loyalty and commitment depending on how much they like their job. But that’s exactly what was going on at that time, that -- that the Catholic managers felt more supportive of Stevens managers than they did, uh, with the Catholic position, even though a lot of them would say that Stevens really messed up, 4:00that, eh -- privately, they would say that the Stevens management style was a management style that is no longer acceptable. And they were not surprised that Stevens was having problems because of their management process. But even at that, you know, privately what they would say about Stevens, and publicly what they would say about the position of the church, were two different things.

HELFAND: And one other thing. Um, just one question about what do you do pers-- what do you do here with that conflict? I had a little noise outside, and I would just like --

GEORGE KLOSTER: OK. Well, ba-- basically, I think that -- that what my task is is to be able to articulate the scriptures, to articulate the Catholic teaching, to try in some way to apply them to issues, um, and to raise questions in people’s minds, uh, that -- that I don’t think a lot of people these days are simply accepting answers from the pulpit. Um, but hopefully, by raising the 5:00issues in such a way that we have to take our -- our social conflicts and resolve them in the light of a scriptural background, and raising people’s -- raising questions in people’s minds as to what does that mean? Um, I -- I think that’s the best way to approach it, because we have an educated, uh, membership in this church. And, uh, I think that I -- I cannot do it. I -- I cannot accept the Pope or people in positions of authority saying, “You’ve got to believe this because I say it and I am the church.” Uh, and so if I can’t accept that, then I can’t put myself in the same position of saying, “Well you’ve got to accept that because I’m the pastor.” And so my task is to challenge, uh, the people with the ideas and the -- that I have with the 6:00issues that we have, and -- and try to -- to help them, uh, in terms of their own decision making, incorporate the values that I most represent, which would be values of the scriptures and the teachings of the church, and the issues of justice. Uh, which might not always have a prominent place in terms of their own decision making when it comes from the business issues that they’re dealing with.

HELFAND: So when it comes down to it, in plain language, you can’t tell the bosses how to treat (laughter) their -- their workers.

GEORGE KLOSTER: No, no. But hopefully, I can get them thinking about it, uh, and wrestling with what that means. And, uh -- and I -- a-- and over the years, I’ve -- I’ve been, uh, pleased when people would come to me and say, “You know, that was really helpful, you know, that -- that my mind was changed on that because of things that you said.”

HELFAND: So is Gastonia a tough place to be a Catholic priest?


GEORGE KLOSTER: No, I don’t think so. I enjoy it. Um, you know, it depends on the issues. Last year, when I was speaking against the war in the -- in the Gulf, uh, my -- my own style, I usually start out with questions, to try to get people kind of on board. And, uh, that particular day, even before I finished, uh, people in the congregation were raising their hands, saying, “Now, wait just a minute here, what about the people of Kuwait?” You know, and -- and I think, you know, the fact that I do not pretend to have all the answers, in many ways, I think, helps my credibility, because they know that I have to wrestle with it, too.

HELFAND: Has there been, um, a union campaign in any of the -- the areas since you’ve been here that you’ve had to wrestle with?

GEORGE KLOSTER: No. Um, at least not one that has been -- that, uh, ma-- probably the -- the most significant union issue we have had was the freightliner strike last year, which is in the other part of the county, but it’s such a major --

(gap in audio)


GEORGE KLOSTER: I -- I did not have much -- I didn’t have any direct involvement in the freightliner strike. And I don’t think I even brought it up as -- in the homily. But listening to people, the thing that I thought was really significant, were the textile workers in the county who were so critical of the freightliner workers for going on strike, because the level of salaries that freightliner pays are so much higher than textile workers that the textile workers couldn’t understand why people making that kind of money would go out on strike. And there was a lot of criticism of the freightliner workers by textile workers where you’d think that there would be solidarity. It was almost as if there was a jealousy of freightliner and what they are making, and we are going to be critical of them. Um, and that, I thought that was really 9:00interesting. And -- and the -- the freightliner issues, as I understand them, were not so much financial as they were worker security. Um, I’ve heard stories that -- uh, that the workers were really concerned about, for instance, pieces of equipment falling off the -- the belt as it was going around, and people being hit by that. And so they were really concerned about -- about safety in the workplace. And that was maybe as much of an issue as the salary issue. But just seeing that division among the working force in the community, because, uh, the -- the textile workers really felt that these people are crazy, making what they’re making, and not being satisfied.

CREW: (inaudible) 12 to 13, or whatever it is an hour, you can dodge falling pieces.

GEORGE KLOSTER: Yeah. Yeah. Why complain? You’re making that much money, why complain?

CREW: (inaudible) tell us that there was a lot of anger against freightliner because their gonna ruin the wag level in this county. (inaudible)

GEORGE KLOSTER: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Well, y-- well, you know, in -- in, uh, 10:00Smithfield, North Carolina, which is, uh, the county that I -- I come from Johnston County. A few years ago, I think it was a pharmaceutical, um, company that was moving in there. And the Chamber of Commerce, uh, more or less told the pharmaceutical company, we don’t want you here because the salary level that you will bring to this community will upset the balance, especially in the textile community. The -- the -- the -- the -- the wage balance. And I think they ended up going to, um, maybe Pitt County instead. But it was really amazing that a high paying industry was turned down because specifically it was a high paying industry and would be a threat to existing industries. And that’s -- that’s been documented in, uh, probably the late ’70s or the early ’80s in Smithfield.

GEORGE STONEY: And, uh, great.

CREW: (inaudible)

GEORGE KLOSTER: Greenville --

GEORGE STONEY: Greenville, South Carolina.


GEORGE KLOSTER: -- South Carolina. Uh-huh.

GEORGE STONEY: Where the -- uh, the BMW plant --


GEORGE STONEY: -- was given all kinds of concessions on the strength of their promise not to bring in a union.

GEORGE KLOSTER: Yeah. Yeah. Isn’t that amazing, that, uh...

GEORGE STONEY: Uh-huh. It’s in the local paper.

GEORGE KLOSTER: Yep. Did you get the phone?

GEORGE STONEY: Yes I did, thank you.


(gap in audio)

CREW: (inaudible)

CREW: Yeah. OK.

HELFAND: OK. So you know what? Now t-- before --

RUBY MOORE: (inaudible)


(gap in audio)

HELFAND: And before, when we -- when we were here before when you were getting dressed, before we were here, what were you doing?

(background dialogue; inaudible)

(gap in audio)

HELFAND: OK, you do your face and your hair in here. OK, what about your pin? What do you p--

(gap in audio)

RUBY MOORE: I don’t think I have can put it on. I have to --

HELFAND: You do it like that?



RUBY MOORE: Well, I can -- I can (inaudible).

HELFAND: OK. All right. So why don’t you start -- you know, do what you would do first, OK? You know --

RUBY MOORE: Oh. (laughter)

HELFAND: Hey! You’d put your pin on first, wouldn’t you?




RUBY MOORE: Is that what you do first? I don’t put my blouse on until I do my makeup.

HELFAND: OK. All right. So keep on -- you just -- you know, start -- why don’t you put your makeup on, and then you’ll put your earrings on.


HELFAND: What’s up?

RUBY MOORE: I can’t put my makeup on (overlapping dialogue; inaudible).

HELFAND: Because you put your makeup on already, right?

RUBY MOORE: It’s on.

HELFAND: Do you put on a little more mascara or something?

RUBY MOORE: Uh, no, really, I -- I -- I got on, which is what I wear.

HELFAND: OK. Well, can you put on just a drop more?

CREW: Fake it.

HELFAND: Just fake it.

RUBY MOORE: Fake it.

HELFAND: Yeah. OK, and I’ll talk to you while you’re putting this stuff on, OK?

RUBY MOORE: (inaudible)


HELFAND: So how’d you get into this?

RUBY MOORE: Oh. We just decided that, uh, we’d like to, uh, have some different exercise, and do it, [we knew?] a lot of people in it. In fact, I call her.

HELFAND: Keep on going. Yeah.

RUBY MOORE: In fact, I call her. Belongs to our church, and, uh, so he had mentioned it to us several times. And that’s really the way we got into it, actually.

HELFAND: OK. Now what -- as we talk, you could just put your earrings on, and you could, you know, maybe put on that last little bit of mascara.


HELFAND: And why don’t you tell me that your caller’s from a-- from Gastonia?

RUBY MOORE: Yes, he lives -- uh, he lives in West Gastonia. Uh, it’s the opposite end of town.

HELFAN: OK. OK. You -- don’t be so nervous. It’s OK. You’re doing great. But before you put the next earring on, as you’re putting it on, you could say, maybe, if the caller for the -- for the square dance --

RUBY MOORE: And I still keep looking in there?

HELFAND: Yeah. You just keep on putting your stuff on as if I’m not there, you know?


HELFAND: And you could tell me, you know, that the call -- and you could even 14:00see me through the window -- through the mirror, right?


HELFAND: That the caller came from East Gastonia, you grew up with him, you knew him, as you put your stuff on, and then you just put on your last finishing touches and makeup, OK? You can talk about why you like it, or that it’s amazing at your age that you’re doing it, or something like that, OK? Just keep them going.

RUBY MOORE: Well, actually -- actually, in -- in square dancing, it is. Uh, we like it for the fellowship a lot, and then, uh, also, for, uh -- also for -- for the exercise. Has real good exercise. The fellowship is great, just wonderful people that are in it. And, uh, so we do, we enjoy it. That’s why we do it.

HELFAND: Yeah. You’re the oldest -- you’re the oldest members of the --

RUBY MOORE: We are the oldest members so far. I mean, uh, yes, we are. We -- and we have been in this club for -- for over 10 years in, um, October. In fact, we were, uh -- we had formed the club. And -- and then they saw me -- uh, 15:00this -- I -- I don’t remember how many, uh, couples there are left from that, but, uh, just to do.

HELFAND: OK. And are you going to put your glasses on at all?

RUBY MOORE: So, it’s -- uh, we do like it. And, uh, and I don’t think you’ll find, uh, anywhere, uh, any, uh, better people to associate with. And you can find them in the Western square dancers. In fact, everybody, uh, that’s in Western square dancing, they’re good, honest people. And one th-- one thing we like about the club also is, uh, they do not allow no drinking whatsoever. And, uh, we -- we like that, because, uh, we’re not drinkers. And, uh, so we like that. And it’s -- it’s -- well, it’s just a good 16:00thing to be in, and we’re crazy about it. And we hope that we could, uh -- uh, stay there until we’re 90, at least.


CREW: Who’s the best dancer there?

RUBY MOORE: The best? Well, I -- I wouldn’t say that we have any of the best. I think we don’t look at them like that as the best, because, uh -- uh, we think they all do pretty good, actually. And, uh, we don’t -- we don’t say that, uh, they’re the best, any of them. But all are good -- all of them are good dancers.

HELFAND: OK. You know, like, with all your makeup stuff. Yeah. Yeah. OK. And, um, I’m not going to -- I’m not going to direct you. Just, as slowly -- just to yourself, you know, as if you -- I mean, just, p-- you know, you got to put it on as if it’s -- you know, you just -- the last finishing touches of getting dressed for this, OK?



HELFAND: And then you don’t have to talk, you just do it. (long pause) So how 18:00long you been doing this? Keep it going.

RUBY MOORE: Seventeen years. Seventeen years.

HELFAND: What about this outfit? Is this one of your favorites?

RUBY MOORE: Oh. Well, not exactly. I mean, I -- I have, uh -- we have s-- several outfits, and, uh, we always have to get our -- have our outfits -- h-- outfits match. And this -- this one thing, one requirement that is required, that -- that we have matching outfits. And we have, uh, special dresses that we wear on special occas-- occasions. We also have what we call a -- a stake dress, that we go to a stake dance. We wear that. Ernest has his I have mine, and they -- and they do match up.

HELFAND: And your belt?


RUBY MOORE: Now, I suppose this is just about the last. I guess I’m about ready.

HELFAND: What do you think? I think you look pretty good.

RUBY MOORE: For an old lady, I guess so. (laughter) Because after all, I’ll be 81 years old Monday. And so, uh, I think I’m doing pretty good. And I’m thankful and grateful that I can dance and get -- uh, get around as well as I do.


(gap in audio)

ERNEST MOORE: (inaudible)

GEORGE STONEY: What’s that?

ERNEST MOORE: (inaudible) (laughter)

CREW: OK, clear.


HELFAND: OK, you know what? Maybe -- maybe we should have Ernest come in, uh, without his tie on, so he can put his tie on from here -- you want to do it in here?

CREW: Yeah, (inaudible) I was going to do it over --

ERNEST MOORE: No, I don’t -- I don’t like to -- I don’t -- I --

CREW: Just square.

ERNEST MOORE: I don’t like to tell the story (inaudible). Just, I don’t -- ask the question, and I’ll answer it.

GEORGE STONEY: OK. OK. Well, how’d you get, uh, accepted in the square dance business?

ERNEST MOORE: Well, I -- so down at the mall, Gaston Mall one time, and there’s a much of square dancers, so square come down there and demonstrated at the Gaston Mall. And I started watched them dance a while, I figured I’d like to dance. So Brian [Hartzel?], he had a club, and he decided, he -- he wanted to maybe start another. And when he started one, I -- I got in there.


GEORGE STONEY: Where do you get your costume?

ERNEST MOORE: What’d you say?

GEORGE STONEY: Where do you get your clothing, costume?

ERNEST MOORE: Oh, different places. They, uh -- they have, uh, square dancing stores around different places.

HELFAND: He said -- he -- he said his caller was from -- grew up with him in Gastonia.

GEORGE STONEY: Tell us about your caller.

ERNEST MOORE: Well, this is a -- he -- he already had one club, and he decided he had to organize another. So he started one. And I think it’s seven couples graduated. And every year, they have a new class. And, uh, I think 22:00this has been -- it’s coming October, be 10 years when this -- our -- our club started. And we build up -- I mean, we build up, uh, year by year. So though, we have -- we have about 90 club members, and not a club.

GEORGE STONEY: Are they all your same age? Are they all your same age?

ERNEST MOORE: No, they different. I guess I’m the oldest one now in the -- in the club.

GEORGE STONEY: How old would that be?


ERNEST MOORE: How old would that be? I might be like a woman, I might not want to tell my age. Alright, I was 83 in April.

GEORGE STONEY: What do you like about it?

ERNEST MOORE: Well, good exercise, meet nice people. Um, just a lot of fun.

GEORGE STONEY: Aren’t you too old to have fun?

ERNEST MOORE: No, you don’t never get too old to have fun.



(gap in audio)


ERNEST MOORE: And ours did this one?].


ERNEST MOORE: You know who -- but [they shooken of the (inaudible).

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah. Uh-huh.

ERNEST MOORE: See there?


ERNEST MOORE: At the -- out in the patio, back of his house.


ERNEST MOORE: That’s just some of the (inaudible). We’ll show you.


ERNEST MOORE: Holly’s old (inaudible), I mean, candy.

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

ERNEST MOORE: I’ll show you. The one with fish, she caught. Oh, that one (inaudible). There’s the feller he’s a-fishing with.


ERNEST MOORE: Uh, brother-in-law. That mu-- must have been tooken over on the island.


ERNEST MOORE: And here was a --


ERNEST MOORE: -- here’s 55 -- 52-pound fish. He said it’s something like a flounder, but they called it something else. He caught that one.

GEORGE STONEY: [Good night?].

ERNEST MOORE: That’s a-him, there, and that’s his --


ERNEST MOORE: -- feller that owns that place. There, he -- he caught a 50-- I 25:00mean, 42 -- 42 salmon -- pound salmon.

GEORGE STONEY: (inaudible) Ah. OK. Now, by the way, when we get over to the --

(gap in audio)

ERNEST MOORE: And you’d tell him what you were there for, you see? And the --

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm. Yep, yeah, yeah. Got it. Got it.

RUBY MOORE: They all know you’re coming. They’re expecting you.RUBY MOORE

ERNEST MOORE: They -- they know you’re coming.

GEORGE STONEY: But what we want to do is to represent -- to -- to show that in your retirement, you’re doing something that’s active. That’s why this particular scene is for that. So, we’re showing what happens to s-- uh, some retired textile workers, you see. And you at 83, at least you claim you’re 83 -- (laughter)


GEORGE STONEY: And you at, uh --

RUBY MOORE: Eighty-one. I’ll be 81 Monday.

GEORGE STONEY: Well, the-- that’s even more exa-- exaggerated.

JAMIE STONEY: Uh, but (inaudible) take you out for the [evening?]

(overlapping dialogue; inaudible)

GEORGE STONEY: That’s still on -- (laughter) uh, uh, you --

HELFAND: Eighty-one, give me a break.

(overlapping dialogue; inaudible)

HELFAND: Wait, no, George, I --

(overlapping dialogue; inaudible)

HELFAND: OK. All right.

(gap in audio)

HELFAND: Wait, one second. Why don’t we get outside --

CREW: Can we get outside and let them come on out (inaudible). [Look at these?].

(gap in audio)


JAMIE STONEY: OK, Judy, now why don’t you put our makeup on and I’ll video you?

(gap in audio)

CREW: OK, speed. Y’all come out.

RUBY MOORE: I have to look down! (inaudible)

CREW: Somebody’s got goodies.

ERNEST MOORE: (inaudible) Ernest, (inaudible).


(very long pause)


(car engine starts)


(background dialogue; inaudible)

CREW: George, get out of the way. George.

_: Ernest, what you been drinking?


(background dialogue; inaudible)

RUBY MOORE: I’m going to describe to them what we done to deserve this.

ERNEST MOORE: This is a -- this is [Tolman here?].

RUBY MOORE: This is our caller.

ERNEST MOORE: This is --

RUBY MOORE: This is the caller and his wife.


ERNEST MOORE: This is Byron Hartsell.

BYRON HARTSELL: Hello, how are y’all?

CREW: [Hey?].

HARTSELL: How you doing?

ERNEST MOORE: (inaudible)

HARTSELL: Byron Hartsell. Good to see you.

GEORGE STONEY: (inaudible) I’ve heard a great deal -- great things about you.

HARTSELL: Well, [I haven’t, appreciate that?], (inaudible).

GEORGE STONEY: They say you keep them young.

HARTSELL: Well, they keep me doing what I’m doing, too. Uh, it -- it all works together. (laughter)


(background and overlapping dialogue; inaudible)

RUBY MOORE: Oh, come on, fellas. Be good sports. (laughter) Fellas and a pretty lady.

CREW: George, George.

M: Thank you. (inaudible) don’t know [how we afford?].

R: How y’all doing?

M: Doing well, thank you.

R: [Good to see you, Mr. Burns?].

M2: Hey, Reed. How you doing? Good seeing you.

R: All right, sir. [It appears?] somebody’s hard up for pictures. (laughter)


M: Oh, well, this -- [we’re going through here?] that’s going to be doing something, and I don’t know exactly what. They’re going to be here -- they’re filming for some reason.

R: Yeah. Well, they can just go ahead and do their thing.

M2: Right.

GEORGE STONEY: Boy, look. Uh, he knows how to do it.

_: How you doing there?

M: Yeah. See ya.

_: Yeah, nice to see y’all.

M: We got to get from the beginning to the end.


M: There we go. (inaudible)

(enters loud room, lots of dialogue)

M: [Lauren, how you doing?]?

F3: Hi.

M: Watch your skirts.

_: -- here buddy.

M: How you doing?

_: Fine, how are you?

M: All right. I never did see nothing on top of a car out there, now what.

F: Well, maybe somebody had got (inaudible).

M: (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) for a little bit.

F4: Well, my. Who do we have here? Oh my. We do have guests tonight, don’t we? We have guests.

(overlapping dialogue; inaudible)


F: Sidney [Welfan?]. He’s always first in every line. (laughter)

M: Yeah, he’s the first man here.

(overlapping dialogue; inaudible)

M: We were the first here tonight, don’t we --


F: Uh, [grand spinners?]. This is what you are, a grand spinner.

_: I think one of them swinging (inaudible).

F: We do not want to miss a swinging star.

(background dialogue; inaudible)

F: Going to the basket for anything. (inaudible)

_: Oh, nice. No, I don’t --

(background and overlapping dialogue; inaudible)

M4: We do not start until they plug the (inaudible).

(overlapping dialogue; inaudible)

M4: We’ll hold up until then.

M: Thank you.


CHARLIE WETSON: Where you out of, New York?

GEORGE STONEY: I work in New York now.

WETSON: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE STONEY: I’m originally from Winston-Salem.

WETSON: Oh, well, you’re an old tar heel. Good, good.


WETSON: I’m Charlie [Wetson?].

GEORGE STONEY: George Stoney.

WETSON: George?


WETSON: Nice to see you.

GEORGE STONEY: Was born and reared there.


GEORGE STONEY: And went to Chapel Hill, and all of it.

WETSON: Oh, right, right. I went, uh, the Citadel for my college days. Of course, the war was on, and --

GEORGE STONEY: Oh, and you were (inaudible).

WETSON: And I was -- I’m 70, so I was right --

GEORGE STONEY: I’m 76, so --

WETSON: Right. Well. And did you go in the service?



GEORGE STONEY: (inaudible) five years, [that’s what I had?].

WETSON: Yeah. I was, too. Yeah, well, you have to be [considered?]. Well, naturally, I went straight in.


WETSON: Officer in the infantry. So came back and worked in the textile business around here.

GEORGE STONEY: Did you ever serve in the national guard?

WETSON: No, I did not. I had the chance, but I was being moved around --

(gap in audio)


WETSON: Infantry was my branch. Yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: (inaudible)

(gap in audio)


F: We have a sterling silver spoon that has a picture of Loray Mills on it, and I’ll be you the only person in town who can tell me we-- why it was issued, and when.

ERNEST MOORE: I don’t know.

F: Well, it has the name Loray, and not the other --

ERNEST MOORE: A silver spoon.

F: A silver spoon, and a lady’s name on it. I’m going to bring it to you and you can tell me when they issued it.

ERNEST MOORE: I don’t know -- I don’t know.

F: Well, who would know? You’re the only one I know that was working there then.

ERNEST MOORE: I don’t -- I didn’t work with [floor stone?].

F: Oh. You didn’t work the -- at --

ERNEST MOORE: I worked the [broom?]. I worked the [broom?].

F: Oh, I see.


F: So you left there --

ERNEST MOORE: Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

F: -- after it was called Loray.

ERNEST MOORE: I don’t have work to -- (inaudible).

F: Mm. OK. Well, I thought you were going to be the one that could tell me.


JAMIE STONEY: Just attract women right and left.

ERNEST MOORE: You aren’t going to do this all the time, are you?




JAMIE STONEY: This is just background.

(gap in audio)

(long pause)

(gap in audio)

HARTSELL: -- forward.


HARTSELL: Uh, it’s one of the w-- well, it’s the only one of its kind in, uh, North Carolina, and it started somewhere around -- around, I believe, in the s-- uh, early ’20s or late ’20s, uh, through the, uh, R.B. Babbington and s-- people like that. And then Dr. Roberts, who was one of the greatest bone specialists was -- hit this (inaudible), or rather, the, uh, hospital all of the 36:00-- all of the years it was open, practically. Very smart individual, extremely smart individual, great individual.

JAMIE STONEY: So what you going to be playing for us tonight?

HARTSELL: Well, we’re going to be doing --

HELFAND: OK, why don’t you keep on putting your -- keep on doing your records.

HARTSELL: Well, what I do, we -- uh, we just -- uh, I got a selection of records I put out here. Uh, what I, uh, do, and I’ll -- I’ll start with, uh, what I call preaching up a storm tonight. And -- that’s a real good record. Horace really, uh, [jazzes stuff?]. Like, gets them started, gets them feeling real good. So I, uh, have a little repertory records that I do e-- each -- each time we meet. And then, uh, we just go from there.



HELFAND:So do you got to -- do you have to lay out any more records?

HARTSELL: Oh, no, not necessarily.


HARTSELL: Unh-unh. No. I got all my, uh, records here, all the value they use at this point.

HELFAND: OK. We might come back up here while you’re calling and just get you 37:00talking from this point of view so we can see everybody dancing --

HARTSELL: Yeah. Yeah. All right.

HELFAND: -- and putting the records on.

HARTSELL: Excuse me, one thing I just -- I don’t know what the -- the acoustics in this building is terrible. And they’re getting ready to fix it. They’re going to lower the ceiling --

HELFAND: Uh-huh.

HARTSELL: -- and give us some real good acoustics. But right now, it is terrible.


HARTSELL: But, uh, one time, what happened -- they had to strip this out because of an asbestos problem, and we lost our acoustics at that point.

HELFAND: Can -- can I ask you to do me a favor?


HELFAND: Could you just, you know, lay out some more records?

HARTSELL: Yeah, sure, OK.

HELFAND: We’ll just get you laying out some records.

HARTSELL: Let me get these, uh here --

HELFAND: You don’t even have to talk. You could just do it like you were going to do it.

HARTSELL: OK. Well, there is some of them on the way up too, right here. What I’m doing here is lay out some -- what we do is we do some round dancing also, along with line dancing, in between what we call our tips of Western square 38:00dancing, and let them dance, you know -- just a way to keep them going for two and a half hours. (inaudible) So, uh, what else?

HELFAND: That’s all. We just want --

HARTSELL: (inaudible)

(gap in audio)

HARTSELL: -- square dancing. This, uh, set of speakers made in Hilton, California. And, well, both of these were. This is amplifier also too.

HELFAND: Looks like they’re ready to go, huh?

HARTSELL: Yeah, if you wanted to -- (inaudible) put on something. Now, this is where we’re going to do some -- a little bit of the classwork here, so you’ll see about that also.




(square dancing with announcer instructions)

HARTSELL: All set? Here we go. Alrighty. Here we go.

[00:39:22-00:45:10] (square dancing with announcer instructions)













HARTSELL: Alrighty. We’re going to put a little singing call here now, I’m going to show you want that means. (inaudible)

[00:45:21-00:47:19] (square dancing with announcer instructions)






[00:47:19-00:48:22] (long gap in audio)


[00:48:22-00:49:08] (square dancing with announcer instructions)

HARTSELL: If you’re all set (inaudible) President Bob (inaudible). OK, here we go. Bob?

BOB: I’d like to welcome everybody here tonight. Let’s bow our heads for invocation. Father in Heaven, we thank you for this day. We thank you that we can all come together and enjoy ourselves in fun and fellowship. Be with us as we leave tonight, guide us, stay with us, and keep us all safe until we meet again. Also, be with those who cannot be with us tonight. We ask this thing -- and -- these things in His name. Amen.

HARTSELL: All right, Bob. Isn’t he great? (inaudible)

[00:49:55-00:54:37] (square dancing with announcer instructions)











(gap in audio)

[00:54:46-00:58:27] (square dancing with announcer instructions)









HARTSELL: All right, [step it in?].

(crowd chatter)

M7: You missed the (inaudible). You hadn’t photographed the umpire tonight. Huh?

HARTSELL: (inaudible)


M7: (laughter) Now, see, I’m Hollywood. I’m the star.

(gap in audio)

M8: Yeah.

HELFAND: When I sat with you and you showed me your photo album, you --

M8: All right.

HELFAND: When your grandfather, Mr. Armstrong?

M8: Right. Correct. (inaudible)

HELFAND: [Colonel?] Armstrong.

GEORGE STONEY: Uh, got permission, he showed us around the mill.

M8: Good.

GEORGE STONEY: And he had a good --


GEORGE STONEY: -- good interview with him.

M8: That’s great. OK.

HELFAND: Yeah. So it’s just coincidence that -- that you’re hear.

M8: [I know it?], I had really forgotten. Yeah, we’d been square dancing for the fun of it for years. It’s great.

(gap in audio)

HELFAND: Is that [Mrs. Weber?]?

M8: Yeah.


M8: [Don’t remember this way?].

(overlapping dialogue; inaudible)

HELFAND: (inaudible) ago. You were sitting in the -- you were sitting over (inaudible), right?

MRS. WEBER: (inaudible) Yes.

HELFAND: Same project. I was working on this project (inaudible).

(gap in audio)


[00:59:51-01:00:03] (square dancing with announcer instructions)

F4: [Another time?]. (inaudible)

M2: Here we go. All set.

(gap in audio)

[01:00:08-01:05:41] (square dancing with announcer instructions)











HARTSELL: You’re almost there.

(crowd chatter)

[01:05:51-01:09:33] (square dancing with announcer instructions to “Oh, You Beautiful Doll”)









(crowd chatter)

(gap in audio)


HARTSELL: Some of our class students here tonight. I’d like to welcome them here tonight. (applause) I have posted the September calendar for the club. Uh, we will commence our classes on the 25th of August starting at 7:30 p.m., and they will run every Tuesday at 7:30 p.m. Uh, there will be one, maybe two Tuesday nights that we may have to take the classes somewhere else because they’re getting ready to put in our ceiling, finally. (applause) Also, I want you to keep in mind the 17th, 18th, and 19th of September, Myrtle Beach. (applause) [Before we’re?] sending fliers out, that we have ca--


(gap in audio)

BOB: -- (inaudible) Reed’s got the tickets for Myrtle Beach. And also, if there’s any club members that have not paid their dues, please see me (inaudible).

(gap in audio)

F: You are [going to do it?].

(crowd chatter)

BOB: Refreshments will be [open as soon as?] this deal is done, we’d like to (inaudible). Let’s dance.

HARTSELL: All right. Let’s (inaudible). Everybody get on the floor, there’s (inaudible) called “Across the Track,” and I’d like to [walk you through a thing?]. We (inaudible) because it doesn’t get (inaudible) (inaudible).

_: There may be one in the kitchen.


(overlapping dialogue; inaudible)

M2: “Across the Track.”

(crowd chatter)

GEORGE STONEY: Huh-huh-huh-huh-huh-huh?

_: Salvation Army, you know, those (inaudible) --

(gap in audio)

[01:12:20-01:15:28] (square dancing with announcer instructions)







HARTSELL: OK, (inaudible). OK, on this [time?], I’m going to get you to position for this “Across the Track.” OK. [Spread yourselves?]. Heads star through, do a double pass through, put centers in, and cast off three 76:00quarters. Oh, square yourselves. (laughter) Square yourselves. Square yourselves. Heads -- heads star through, do a double pass through, put centers in, cast off three quarters, now (inaudible) to the middle and come on back. OK. Everybody pass through. Now, here’s starts -- here starts “Across the Track.” The centers do a partner trade. The ends cross fold and face that girl -- uh, and cross fold, go all the way a-- and face in, getting behind boy-boy, girl-girl. Boy-boy-girl-girl. Be sure you (inaudible). The centers walk into a momentary ocean wave, and then we’ve got to stop and extend and make two waves, and that then should cross the track. Now, let’s see if we 77:00got that right. Uh, girls trade, recycle, pass through, trade (inaudible). Trade. Don’t (inaudible). All right, square yourselves. OK, here we go. Heads star through, do a double pass through, put centers in, cast off three quarters, (inaudible) to the middle and back. Now, everybody pass through. Now here you go. You start [shooting?] across the track here. The centers do a partner trade, ends cross all the -- you’re getting behind, boy-boy girl-girl. Now centers extend a wave, and without stopping, extend it outside too, and then finish it across the track. All right, swing through. Boys trade. Boys run. Bend the line. Pass the ocean. Girls trade. I don’t -- I believe 78:00(inaudible) see here. Oh, OK. Girls trade again. All these circle [eight?]. Engine quarter, do a walk and dodge and a partner trade, star through, square two three. Allemande left. Then you should be home, right? Or promenade. OK. One more time. (inaudible) Just, we’re not going to spend all the time on it, but anyhow, OK, here we go. Star-- now, heads star through, double pass through, put centers in, cast off three quarters, pass through. OK, on the call across the track centers, (inaudible) center do a partner trade, the ends across both, centers extend back the way but then they extend it outside, too. OK. Ladies trade. Recycle. Pass through, trade line. Are you allemande left?

(crowd chatter)


HARTSELL: OK. All right. Make a wave. I’ll get you on this. OK, make a wave. OK, girls trade, girls circle eight, (inaudible) walk and dodge, partner trade, star through -- oh, that’s right, star through, (inaudible). And allemande left. Can you do it?

(crowd chatter)

HARTSELL: OK. Let’s try it one time (inaudible). OK. Heads star through, double pass through, put centers in, cast off three quarters, circle -- y-- now, you already did that, started in on the right -- all right, everybody pass through, now across the track. Center partner trade, across both centers, make a wave, momentarily extend it outside to where you are. OK. Let’s put the music on, let’s do one time.


[01:19:48-01:20:59] (square dancing with announcer instructions)



HARTSELL: Oh, let’s take that for a while, OK? All right. The right foot [I was thinking we would go eat?].

(gap in audio)

[01:21:06-01:23:58] (square dancing with announcer instructions to “Love Potion No. 9”)





HARTSELL: All right, that’s it.


(crowd chatter)

JAMIE STONEY: You remember when that was a hit? (inaudible) I said, I still remember that song from --

(gap in audio)

JAMIE StONEY: Want to say that for me again? I need it on camera.

F: (laughter) Can I get some food?

JAMIE STONEY: OK, why don’t you take (inaudible).

F: OK. I’ll take you. I’ll take you to my leader. We’re going to let our guests have something to eat. Don’t you want to put your camera up here?


JAMIE STONEY: No! I take this everywhere. My wife hates it.

F: Oh, really? (laughter) Well, you know, the -- the -- they’ve got plenty of good food. It -- all the calories have been taken out of it.

JAMIE STONEY: Uh-huh. I’ll believe that when I see it.

M8: Hey have you heard about the Indian -- turn that camera on. Have you heard about the Indian?


M8: He drinks so much tea, that they found him downed in his own teepee.

GEORGE STONEY: Is that copyrighted?

M8: I -- I got a couple.

_: These guys own the copyright on that joke.

F6: Well, I mean, you can do that, too. Well, this is a bad thing for y’all to do, because this is our weakness.

F7: Lord have mercy. Y’all got to get in line.

(overlapping dialogue; inaudible)

F7: You better -- you better let me hold that and you get in line.

F6: Paul, they’re watching you, now.

PAUL: Oh, yeah.

M8: Hey, [Paul?], did you hear that Bill Clinton was going to put a man on the sun by the year 2000?

PAUL: No. How?

M8: They asked the reporter, said, “Is it going to be kind of hot?” And he said, “Oh no, because we going to land at night.”


F7: Now, say that again, [T?]?

JAMIE STONEY: Spell Potato for me.

M8: Bill Clinton says they’re going to put a man on the, uh, moon -- on the sun by the year 2000. Reporter said, “Well, won’t that be kind of hot?” And he said, “Oh no, we going to land at night.”

(overlapping dialogue; inaudible)

F7: Oh, the sun!

_: No, I’m not in line.

F7: I did not -- I didn’t hear the sun.

HELFAND: Oh, we will, we will. No, we’re just fine, we’re fine.

M: Well, we had (inaudible). Still [did a job?].

HELFAND: With what?

M: [Say one is Pan Am?], (inaudible).

HELFAND: Where, here? Did you do that during the 1930s? For which station?


(crowd chatter)

M7: Well, I think -- I think a union does good in some place [in there?]. Yeah. (inaudible)

(gap in audio)

(crowd chatter)

BENNIE RILEY: I work for the railroad, 37 years.

HELFAND: [Have you been?] explaining what we’ve been doing?

RILEY: Yeah.

HELFAND: We -- we mi-- we missed that part. What were you saying earlier?

(overlapping dialogue; inaudible)

HELFAND: So you work for the railroads?

RILEY: Yeah. I’m retired now. I did, 37 years.


HELFAND: We’ve been talking to Ernest about old times, when they were trying to unionize in the 1930s.

RILEY: Oh. We had to belong to keep our jobs.

HELFAND: Excuse me?

RILEY: We had to belong to keep our jobs.

HELFAND: Ernest, it wasn’t quite like that, was it? Ernest, are you going to eat something?

MOORE: I’m not done. Yeah, I’m going to -- I’m going to -- uh, I’m going to eat.

HELFAND: Get on line, then!

(gap in audio)

ED FORBES: -- thing I remember about it, I was sitting in second grade in the classroom in school, remember he was looking across his textile plant right across the road from it. And when they looked over there, they set the National Guard on top of it, and here come the chain of automobiles and folks hanging all over the buses or whatever they could find to ride on, going south to South Carolina, and they drove right down the road. That’s the very -- very thing that I remember about the strike, and that’s basically what we saw.

GEORGE STONEY: Where was this?


FORBES: [Southcast down on?] 321 South, right down the school. Yeah, I was in second grade, sitting in the classroom, and I remember seeing the National Guard, machine gun, sandbags, and all sitting on top of the mill over there. We were sitting in the classroom looking, watching them. We wasn’t interested in classrooms, too. (laughter) We was watching what was going on.

GEORGE STONEY: Did your folks tell you what was happening?

FORBES: Oh yeah, we knew what was going on. We’d been -- see, I’d actually been about seven years old, second grade, so I started then at six, (inaudible). Big enough to remember that -- that part of it.

GEORGE STONEY: What did -- what did people tell you that it was all about.

FORBES: Well, we was talking about (inaudible). Just had [the fast on us here?] with the shooting and all like that, and were headed on my way. And we knew that, because (inaudible) a little bit of folks have told you about (inaudible) folks have read in newspapers. But that was basically (inaudible) with what we had gone.

GEORGE STONEY: That was in ’29?

FORBES: Well, actually, ’29, ’30, the beginning of 29 is when it was taking place.

GEORGE STONEY: But now some of -- do you remember anything about the bigger strike that was in ’34 that was all over the county, not just at Loray?


FORBES: Yeah, well, basically, that was part of it, too. In other words, they was coming in, and tied in together later on, with Loray strike. I mean, they were going to American thread, and [clover where they were headed?] from what -- what we were told when going down the road. We lived in the south part of town, (inaudible) [did the taxes?].

GEORGE STONEY: [He got mine?].

FORBES: So that’s basically what I --

_: Oh really? (inaudible)

GEORGE STONEY: Did -- did your folks have anything to do with textiles?

FORBES: Oh no, we were farmers. We were farmers down in the country. (inaudible)

GEORGE STONEY: Well, a lot of farms came in and, uh --

FORBES: Oh yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: -- and worked in the mills at that time, didn’t they?

FORBES: Right, they did. There’s no doubt about that, but (inaudible) get things straightened out when the Loray was built up there, a lot of them worked that farm (inaudible). We were basically farming in South Carolina and up there in the lower part of North Carolina, but it was in South Carolina. (inaudible)

GEORGE STONEY: We -- we’re reading some letters that some of the people who were -- went on strike were writing. They were complaining that farmers were coming in and taking their jobs.

FORBES: Mm-hmm. Well, true. That’s true, probably what it was. But I think most of it is just unrest in the middle, what it was, uh, wages and things 91:00trying to get (inaudible) main thing, whatever that -- we were told (inaudible). But anybody’s trying to find a job that could find a job, and that last one we could talk about ’34. (inaudible) That’s basically all I can say, just big enough to remember that sticking [daily in the mind?]. (laughter)

GEORGE STONEY: Well, uh, [Woodrow Wright?] was, uh -- who, uh, was telling us about watching the National Guard.

FORBES: Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm. But they were here, right outside the door.

GEORGE STONEY: Now, let me show you some pictures.


GEORGE STONEY: These are some pictures. That’s some --

FORBES: Right. That’s typical dress of that time, as the (inaudible) --

GEORGE STONEY: People getting food. Union was --

FORBES: Right. [They were asking about?] --

GEORGE STONEY: -- putting out food. Yeah.

FORBES: That’s Main Street right there, coming down this part of the (inaudible).

GEORGE STONEY: And that’s, uh, people --

FORBES: Moving down the street.


GEORGE STONEY: Yeah. That’s, uh, Labor Day parade.

FORBES: Labor Day parade. And what year was that?

GEORGE STONEY: You see in -- uh, ’34.

FORBES: Thirty-four, yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: See, the -- did you, uh, ever realize that that many people [were involved?]?

FORBES: No, sure didn’t.



GEORGE STONEY: And this is another Labor Day parade.

FORBES: (inaudible)

GEORGE STONEY: You see, what’s, uh, Ranlo.

FORBES: That’ll be [down at Ranlo?].

GEORGE STONEY: And this is, uh, one of the Albert Hinson up speaking.

FORBES: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE STONEY: Um, now this is something that’s surprising. This is in, uh -- uh, Lineberger Park, at the end of the -- of the Labor Day Parade.

FORBES: Right, and gathered down there to regroup, or so to speak, at the --

GEORGE STONEY: See how many thousands of them were involved, and --

FORBES: Yeah, there were a bunch of them. There was no doubt about that. There was a lot of people in town at that particular [time?] going on, I remember that, because they come from all over in here, to that park.

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm. I was this to a merchant downtown the other day --

FORBES: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE STONEY: -- and he said, “What are all these people doing in town? They 93:00don’t come downtown anymore!” (laughter)

FORBES: No, that’s for sure, not even --

F7: Golly.

FORBES: That was, uh, the ’34, you were talking about on that.

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah. That’s right.

F7: Mm-hmm.


F7: [A lot of folks?] used to live south, (inaudible).

GEORGE STONEY: Is that right? Right.

F7: Mm-hmm. Not when he got killed, but --

GEORGE STONEY: This was -- this was a few years after that. This is ’34. And, uh, we just --

F7: Uh, central school or high school?

GEORGE STONEY: No, this is -- this is Parkdale Mill.

FORBES: Parkdale. (inaudible)

F7: Oh, interesting.

FORBES: Looked like (inaudible).

GEORGE STONEY: But this is -- that was the Labor D-- big Labor Day rally of 1934.

F7: Uh-huh. Huh.

HARTSELL: What year?

GEORGE STONEY: Nineteen thirty-four.

FORBES: Thirty-four? (inaudible) regrouped in part down there to the right.

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah. And, yeah.

F7: I remember ma-- marching -- when the Loray strike was on, I remember marching down Chest Street -- Chestnut Street.


HElFAND: Who were you marching with?

F7: I wasn’t marching but the -- the union was marching.

GEORGE STONEY: Do you remember what year that was? Figure out your age, (inaudible).


M8: Is that when they had the killing?

F7: Yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: No, this was -- this was, uh --

M8: Thirty-four? Thirty-four, is what I --

GEORGE STONEY: This -- thirty -- this was ’34 that we were t-- talking about. That’s in -- in Kannapolis. But let me show you something else that you would recognize here, right here.

HELFAND: How old do think you were? You -- you -- you were in the middle of figuring out how old you were at that time.

F7: I was trying to remember when -- how -- well, I know I was not --

M9: That’s (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) right there, where the (overlapping dialogue; inaudible).

F7: I know I was not 16, because I moved from Avon Street in 16 -- uh, when I was 16. No, 15, when I was 15. So before that.

GEORGE STONEY: That was about -- that was about, uh, 1950.

F7: (laughter) I wish. Oh.

GEORGE STONEY: Now, maybe you know some of these -- these three ladies. Um, let’s see. Uh --


M10: Vera Mayhew, [Ladie Smith?], Edith --

F7: Edith [Fairs?].

GEORGE STONEY: Edith [Fairs?].

F7: [Ladie Smith?].


F7: And Vera Mayhew.

GEORGE STONEY: And Vera Mayhew. Those are three -- yeah.

F7: (inaudible) Mm-hmm.

GEORGE STONEY: They came pretty back then. (laughter) Now, this is -- this is one that you may recognize.

F7: That’s the Firestone.

GEORGE STONEY: That’s right. And that’s --

F7: You were right.

GEORGE STONEY: -- see, the National Guard, and --

F7: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE STONEY: -- and the, uh -- this was in t-- in ’34.

F7: Mm-hmm.

HELFAND: So how old were you again, then? What do you remember?

F7: I r-- I just remember the marchers.

M9: Mm-hmm.

F7: Marching down Chestnut Street. I stood on our back steps, as for -- it was so built up. Are you from Gastonia?


F7: Oh.

GEORGE STONEY: Winston-Salem.

F7: Well, I live on Avon Street, and Chester Street was over, and I could stand on my back steps and watched them. 96:00Scared to death, scared to death, because we knew the Alderholts had lived beside us, you see?


F7: Um, then, they had moved.

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

F7: But you know, when it’s somebody you know -- but I was just a little girl, but I remem-- I remember marching.

GEORGE STONEY: Well, um, Ernest, we showed, uh, some movies of this same parade.

F7: Uh-huh.

GEORGE STONEY: And I just recognized his father.

F7: You’re kidding.

GEORGE STONEY: (inaudible)

F7: Start over in that book and let me see.

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah. OK. Well, his father isn’t in this picture.

F7: Mm-mm.

GEORGE STONEY: But maybe you recognize him. Let me take it out of this this, and you can see it a little bit better.

F7: well, my da--

GEORGE STONEY: See, that building’s still there.

F7: Uh-huh. Um, my dad had already left textiles when this -- [Vance Lance Jewelers?].

GEORGE STONEY: (overlapping dialogue; inaudible)

F7: Old Citizens Clock, Belks.



F7: See, what is that? I don’t remember that building. There’s [old campus?] theater.


F7: That’s when the health department was right there. Right there, it was post office and health department.

M9: Nope. It -- uh, the old post office was --

F7: And the health department was here.

M9: Af-- af-- after the post office moved, then it was the health department.

F7: Health department.

GEORGE STONEY: You see, this is -- thi-- they were from Ran--

F7: From Ranlo.

GEORGE STONEY: -- from, uh, Ranlo.

F7: Uh-huh.

FORBES: Now, the health department, when I came to Gastonia in 1939.

F7: Well, you wasn’t here for the big strike then.

FORBES: Oh, no, I wasn’t here. I missed that.

F7: Did Ernest find his daddy?

GEORGE STONEY: Yes, that --

F7: That looks exactly like the hospital. (laughter)

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah. But this is -- this is the -- this down in Li-- in Lineberger Park.

F7: Lineberger Park. It was City Park then.

GEORGE STONEY: That’s right. This is -- they called it Municipal Park back here on -- on the caption.

F7: Right, it was called City Park.

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

F7: Because Eli Lineberger owned it. I --


GEORGE STONEY: Well, they --

F7: I cut my teeth down there.

GEORGE STONEY: They owned pretty much the whole town then, didn’t they?

F7: That part of town.


F7: Do-- doesn’t show the concessions stand.


F7: Well, that’s Firestone. Molay.

GEORGE STONEY: That’s (inaudible). That’s right, yeah. It wa-- it was Loray then, but it became Firestone the next year, the -- yeah.

F7: Yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: And this is in Charlotte. And the --

F7: Well, I don’t -- I know (inaudible).

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah, the big [bit?]. Yeah.

F7: That’s interesting, it’ll -- when is this going to be on? I [want to go see it?].

GEORGE STONEY: We hope, uh, about a year.

F7: Oh!

GEORGE STONEY: Wish us luck.

HELFAND: So you grew up here in about [12 years?].

F7: Oh yes. Uh-huh. I was born and raised here, so I know all about it.

GEORGE STONEY: Did you -- you never worked in textiles?

F7: Mm-mm. My did, but he quit in twenty s-- ’25.


F7: And would work for the city.


HELFAND: Did -- we’re trying to understand what happened. You know, after this period of time, you know, how this -- how this big strike, let’s say, you know, what -- what people talked about a few years after.

F7: Chief Aderholt’s death, and that’s the reason it’s so hard for a union to get in in Gastonia now. You know, there’s no unions in Gastonia.

GEORGE STONEY: Well, the Firestone is unionized now.

F7: Did it go union now?

M9: Mm-hmm.

F7: Well, I didn’t even know that.

M9: In fact, somebody gave, uh, the -- the Gaston County Museum the voting box, the ballot box after the union victory over there. (laughter)

F7: Oh.

GEORGE STONEY: And that -- that --

F7: That’s been recently, too, (inaudible).

GEORGE STONEY: That’s right. It’s -- it’s -- it’s recent. Yeah.

F7: Mm-hmm. Real recent.

HELFAND: How can it be that, uh, somebody’s death in 1929 could affect things in 1992? [You tell me?].


F7: Because -- because a lot of old people still live, and -- and they tell it, you know? And when -- union is mentioned, all those that -- below, uh, you -- you just don’t know these people. So yeah.

JAMIE: So because they killed a public official --

F7: Mm-hmm.

CREW: -- a man of the law?

GEORGE STONEY: Because there were about eight --

F7: Oh, there was a woman killed, too.

GEORGE STONEY: Yes. That’s right. Uh, the deputy sheriff shot (inaudible) Yes.

F7: Mm-hmm.

HELFAND: So you’re telling me that -- ha-- so what happens when they mention union? You were just starting to see --

F7: They -- they’d vote them out. Firestone is the only one, and the only reason they got it is because their other plants have it.

GEORGE STONEY: And, um, the -- the big truck [thing?]. But --

F7: Yeah, but it’s in Mount Holly.

GEORGE STONEY: I see. But not in --

F7: Not in Gastonia. And see, they don’t stress it as much in Mount Holley as they do in Gastonia. Uh, none of the other cotton mills in Gastonia. At one time, there were 100 cotton mills in Gastonia. And none of them were unionized. 101:00And when anybody mentioned union, it just scared everybody to death.

GEORGE STONEY: Actually, there were a number of locals at that time, um --

F7: Trying to get in.

GEORGE STONEY: Well, and -- and there was some -- some locals, actually operating at that time.

F7: In the cotton mills?

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm. That’s right. The --

F7: Do you know the name of it?

GEORGE STONEY: In 1933 and ’34, um, over at, uh --

HELFAND: Maybe Ernest can explain it better than we can, George.

GEORGE STONEY: That’s true. OK. But we’ve got a list of locals -- I think we had a list of locals here.

HELFAND: It’s in the back.

GEORGE STONEY: (inaudible)

HELFAND: It’s in the back. It’s in the diner part.

GEORGE STONEY: OK. Let’s see. Oh. Nope.

HELFAND: Just keep on going. Here it is.


GEORGE STONEY: Yeah. This is the list of locals in North Carolina. Let’s see. Um, Concord -- no, Gastonia.

F7: Well, never heard of that. CJ Galloway. Never heard of that. It must have not stayed here long. Never heard of that.

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

F7: See, I -- if they -- if they were in the union, they sure didn’t last long.

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

F7: South Gastonia.


F7: Victory. Now, I remember that.


F7: That right there, I bet is the Victory Mill now.


F7: It’s still there.

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

F7: But I didn’t know it was ever unionized. It hadn’t been since it’s been in the Victory.

GEORGE STONEY: Well, actually, in ’34, (clears throat), they -- every mill in Gaston County closed for at least two weeks.


F7: I know it. And, you know, during the Depression, the Trenton Mill was the only mill that didn’t close. It never closed. It went on three-day weeks, but it never closed, because my aunts had all worked there, and it -- and all during the depression, they said it didn’t close.

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm. Who -- who owned that?

F7: The Dixons.


F7: Mm-hmm. At that time.

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So it was the Stows, the Linebergers, and --

F7: The Dixons were -- and the Greys had a lot --

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. The Greys. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

F7: Greys owned two or three.

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. We’ve talked with Jake Grey.

F7: But my mother went to work in the Old Avon mill when she was seven years old. They stood on boxes --

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Good Lord.

F7: -- to reach the machines. Seven years old. Can you imagine?


F7: But her father had been killed, and all -- her -- her mother had those little children, so they had to.


F7: You know, I saw --

GEORGE STONEY: We ta-- we were talking to a woman who’s 90.

F7: Mm-hmm.


GEORGE STONEY: And she started --

F7: Well, my mother would be over 100 if she were living.

GEORGE STONEY: And we’ve talked -- we talked to another woman who was ’84, and worked at -- started working at 10. Yeah.

F7: Mm-hmm. I -- I just stoo-- I couldn’t believe that [nice?] -- uh, my grandson, “Are you sure?” He said, “Is she sure she went?” She said, “Yes, she was sure.” And she said that -- that if they got tired, you know, ch-- like children, said the boss man was real mean to them. And my grandm-- my grandmother went and talk to him and told him not to touch one of her children.

GEORGE STONEY: (laughter)

F7: That -- but that mill’s torn down now.

GEORGE STONEY: Well, one of the things we found is that in the ’20s, and we talked to somebody about -- it was -- uh, the family, the whole family, got pulled together.

F7: Yeah!

GEORGE STONEY: And so a family would have an envelope. And the name of the father, the money, and the various children working the mills, and it all went, of course, to the father.


HELFAND: Did you know that?

F7: No. My aunts were li-- were living the-- um, working then. Now, my dad was not.


F7: But my aunts were.

GEORGE STONEY: Well, what --

F7: But their -- their dad was dead so it went to their mother.

GEORGE STONEY: One of the things we were trying to do with this film is to add that to textile history. Because you go into the -- most textile museums, and you see the owners, you see the machinery, but you don’t see --

F7: See the people, and you know the stories.

GEORGE STONEY: So that’s what we’re trying to do.

HELFAND: Have you thought about that yourself? I mean, about worker -- about (inaudible) -- when workers are included in history? Have you ever thought about that?

F7: No, I really have not. I really have not. I’d give anything if my aunt was still living, because she could tell so much. (inaudible)

GEORGE STONEY: Well, let me tell you something that we’ve just accidentally done, almost. We’ve stimulated a lot of people to dig out stuff. For example, we were over at, uh, Mrs. uh La-- Lavonia Hills the other day. And 106:00maybe you know her. And she started working at, uh, the age of 14. She was telling us about it, and I asked her about something, and she said, “Oh, well, let me look it up in my diary. It turns out that she had kept a diary from 1933 right up to 1967. And because she doesn’t have much family, she was going to throw them away. (inaudible) do that! The museum’s [got that?]. So the day before yesterday, we actually filmed, with her, presenting those -- those diaries --

F7: Oh, great!

GEORGE STONEY: -- to the Gaston County Museum.

F7: Oh, that’s great!

GEORGE STONEY: But she had -- and we got to read some of the answers. And we hope that when news of that gets out, that other people who have things like that -- photographs, uh, pay slips, that kind of thing, they’ll start giving them to the museum. So if you have things like that --


F7: I’ve got a picture somewhere of a -- of a bunch from the Trenton --


F7: -- when my dad was still working there.

GEORGE STONEY: For goodness sakes, take care of them, and see that they get to some good museum.

F7: Oh I will.

GEORGE STONEY: And let us know.

F7: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE STONEY: If, uh -- because it may be of interest to us, as well.

F7: Uh-huh.

GEORGE STONEY: We’re staying over at the, um -- the Days Inn. Yeah.

F7: Days Inn on [Greenmount?] Road?

JAMIE: Yeah, 221, uh, Chester Avenue, Chester Street.

F7: That’s Midtown.

GEORGE STONEY: No, it’s -- it’s just --

JAMIE: (inaudible) 85.

F7: Chester and 85?


HELFAND: Three twenty-one.

JAMIE STONEY: Where 321 hits 85, there’s a Days Inn there. Used to be a hotel.

Q2: Next to the old pancake house.

F7: And it’s on out -- it’s on out 321?

JAMIE STONEY: Yeah. (inaudible) 85.

F7: Yeah, I know where it -- it used to be Howard Johnson’s.

GEORGE STONEY: That’s right, yeah. Well, that’s where we’re staying.

F7: Yeah, I know where you’re staying. Uh-huh.

GEORGE STONEY: So, for goodness sakes, let us know.

F7: If I find it, I will.

GEORGE STONEY: Oh please! It’ll be great.

F7: (inaudible) tomorrow -- uh, well, I’ll be gone tomorrow. I’ll look Monday.

GEORGE STONEY: OK. Good. Thank you.


F7: But it -- it was a whole -- a whole bunch. And now my aunt that I was talking about worked in the card room --


F7: -- and did a man’s job.

GEORGE STONEY: You know what the temperature was like in that room, and the lid. F7: Yeah, and -- uh-huh.

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah. That was one of the toughest places.

F7: Now the windows are all bricked over, and air condition [a fan?].

GEORGE STONEY: But it’s no picnic now.

F7: Unh-unh. It’s no picnic now, but it isn’t what they went through.

GEORGE STONEY: No, sir, that’s not --

F7: So I can remember my aunt coming home. And my grandmother lived right on the corner where, uh, Sears Catalogue is -- office is now, on Trenton Street.


F7: Uh, I could see when my aunt was coming home, and they had a pump house out there, and it was f-- well water. We’d go -- she’d -- the -- [Grimbo?] would send us out there, and we’d get cold water and bring it back -- (inaudible) in icebox, because it was so much colder than we could get out of the faucet. I’ve gone to the pump many a time. (laughter)


GEORGE STONEY: Well, I’m glad you --

F7: I’m telling my age.

(gap in audio)

[01:49:05-01:49:26] (square dancing with announcer instructions to “Achy Breaky Heart”)

HARTSELL: All right. Take a break. Next time, [we’ll plus?].

(crowd chatter)

(gap in audio)


[01:49:59-01:52:05] (square dancing with announcer instructions)





_: (inaudible) dance one more time, OK? But it’s a real good -- (background dialogue; inaudible)

[01:52:35-01:57:02] (square dancing with announcer instructions)