[square dance, music alternating with indecipherable speech, up to 17:40]
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M1: [I have?] got some other stuff down here you might be interested in too.
GEORGE STONEY: Yeah. OK.
ERNEST MOORE: [I'm 29?].
GEORGE STONEY: Yes, (overlapping dialogue; inaudible).
MOORE: [I'd be home?].
F1: Hi, everybody.
GEORGE STONEY: We wanted to get some reflection of that, because that's what
everybody got in their [minds?]. That was the first - it influenced how they thought about '34, you know. 00:18:00JUDITH HELFAND: Ernest, this one's for us.
(overlapping dialogue; inaudible)
M2: Everybody have a good time?
GEORGE STONEY: I'm glad you come out here. As I say, what we'll do is
simply run off some copies - a copy of this, so you'll have the VHS.MOORE: You're going to send me what?
GEORGE STONEY: We'll send you a copy - something that you can put on your own
home VCR of what we took tonight.MOORE: And I've done them - they've [done asked them?] to take - [lots of
background noise] (inaudible) what I got? So did you -GEORGE STONEY: (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) copy.
MOORE: Well, and some of them done (inaudible). You gonna send me one or two?
GEORGE STONEY: No, I'm going to send you one, and then you can make copies.
They can make copies if they want to.MOORE: Oh.
GEORGE STONEY: If you want to. You may look at it first.
MOORE: I thought you - I thought you were going to send me two, I was going to
send some -HELFAND: Oh, we're going to send you - oh, yeah, of that? Yeah, we're going
to send you two, one for you and one for your son, out on the dance floor. Everybody's in it.MOORE: That's right.
HELFAND: Yeah.
00:19:00MOORE: Yeah, I got (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) -
HELFAND: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
GEORGE STONEY: No, that's no problem. We'll send you a copy, and then if
they want to copy it they can.HELFAND: And with the interview with you we'll send you two copies, one for
you and one for Ted.MOORE: Yeah. Yeah, he's looking forward to that, I mean -
HELFAND: OK.
MOORE: How long you going to give - make it (overlapping dialogue; inaudible)?
F1: So you've got fans from all over the world. I brought her one from
[Gilly's?] in Texas. She's the preacher (overlapping dialogue; inaudible).[general overlapping talk, inaudible]
MOORE: I [wouldn't have minded it right there?]. I (inaudible) - oh, he did.
GEORGE STONEY: That's what he's all puffed up about. (laughter) Don't
tell him I said that.MOORE: Well, he's a pretty good sport about it.
HELFAND: Ernest, I didn't realize that you didn't know what they were
dancing - it said that you don't know what they're going to dance until they call it. I didn't know that. 00:20:00JAMIE STONEY: We always thought you guys sat there and practiced this stuff, and
now you left it (inaudible) -HELFAND: I didn't know that you don't know what you're going to do until
right before he tells you, yeah?GEORGE STONEY: Oh, he's been dancing for years. He knows that.
HELFAND: Yeah, but I didn't know that.
GEORGE STONEY: He's been dancing it for years.
MOORE: (inaudible)
GEORGE STONEY:[Ten years, that's what I thought, in October?].
[audio break]
M1: - purpose last year. I happen to have a copy of it - I'll try to bring it
tomorrow if you're interested.HELFAND: Well, he said Chapel's. Where in Chapel Hill?
GEORGE STONEY: University of North Carolina.
F1: Oh, that's where my child went.
GEORGE STONEY: I'm just saying that they would - they would be interested in
the photographs -F1: The pictures I've got. Because, see, Stella worked out here so long.
They treated orthopedics, burns, and tuberculosis out here.M1: Right, right.
GEORGE STONEY: The School of Public Health, as a historical section -
F1: That's - that's where my daughter went, and she -
GEORGE STONEY: - would be interesting.
F1: - nursing.
M1: Of course, it was - the infantile paralysis was the big thing in the early
'20s and '30s, that kept so many hundreds of kids out here. Yeah. 00:21:00F1: And '48, too. 'Forty-eight's when they had that bad epidemic.
M1: Yeah.
F1: And they kept those here, too, (inaudible).
[break in audio]
[church choir singing]
REVEREND RAMSAY: [Praise?], (inaudible) who Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, the
love of God, sweet communion, the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with us henceforward, now, and forevermore.[choir singing Amen]
[general conversation]
M3: Good to see you. Yeah, I'm (inaudible) that - as I'm coming out - as we
come out that - 00:22:00GEORGE STONEY: That's right. As we come out the door they're all set up outside.
M3: Good, good. Yeah. Is the preacher, he going to - when is he going to be
with us?GEORGE STONEY: Well, I don't know. You might speak to him.
M3: Well, you can ask him.
GEORGE STONEY: OK.
M3: Yeah, he - where did he go? He's out there -
GEORGE STONEY: I think he's out there, so he'll be out there.
M3: OK, (inaudible). GEORGE STONEY: He'll be out there greeting. All right,
so whenever you're ready - I don't want to cut off your business, but -M3: Yeah, I'm ready now.
GEORGE STONEY: OK.
M3: I'll (inaudible).
[audio break] (overlapping dialogue; inaudible)
M3: Friend of mine from – what the name of that university in New York?
GEORGE STONEY: New York. New York University.
M3: See right there? He goes - he gonna - he goes around and - and get all the
[oddest then?] things that happen. [break in audio]GEORGE STONEY: - ah, was it the Baptist church up the hill there?
M3: Yeah. Yeah.
00:23:00GEORGE STONEY: Georgia [Henton?] is helping us.
M3: Yeah.
GEORGE STONEY: And she had me over there for Sunday school this morning.
M3: (inaudible)
GEORGE STONEY: OK, well, let's be - maybe - tell you, when we get outside,
I'll just ask you to introduce me and, and explain to him, uh, to the preacher what we're doing.M3: Yeah, OK. OK. I done told him - I done told him anyway.
GEORGE STONEY: OK, well, just for the camera.
M3: Yeah.
00:24:00[general background talk, inaudible]
F2: He just - he's been (inaudible) and everything.
GEORGE STONEY: (laughter) Well, he's been helping us a lot.
00:25:00(overlapping dialogue; inaudible)
M3: There she is. [Mother of George P. Sherman?] and (inaudible) New York
University. (overlapping dialogue; inaudible)GEORGE STONEY: I'm sorry. I was looking for this gentleman. I misunderstood
you. You're another Friday. You're kin to him? (pause) (laughter) Well, 00:26:00you ought to brag about it. 00:27:00[more overlapping background dialogue, inaudible]
M3: We gonna have a meeting downstairs. Um, man, Jerry? I don't know, Jerry
ain't going to still - no, you -HELFAND: [He's waving back?]
M3: (inaudible) a meeting, I - (overlapping dialogue; inaudible)
00:28:00[background dialogue; inaudible]
[break in audio]
E.O. FRIDAY: (inaudible), grabbed a (inaudible) and [grab?] my wife, come on out
here, we're waiting on her?F3: OK.
00:29:00E.O. FRIDAY: [What we gonna stand there for?]?
GEORGE STONEY: Right around here. It'll be fine.
E.O. FRIDAY: She'll be here [any minute?].
GEORGE STONEY: OK.
E.O. FRIDAY: (inaudible)
GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.
F4: There she is.
E.O. FRIDAY: Come on.
GEORGE STONEY: [Arissa?]?
E.O. FRIDAY: Come over there.
GEORGE STONEY: Hello. Well, you're all dressed up today.
E.O. FRIDAY: Yup. Yup. He's coming.
GEORGE STONEY: Yeah.
E.O. FRIDAY: (inaudible)
JAMIE STONEY: How you doing, ma'am? Pardon my [left?].
E.O. FRIDAY: Hey, [now?].
JAMIE STONEY: How you doing today, sir? Pardon my left.
00:30:00REVEREND RAMSAY: That all he wants to do?
GEORGE STONEY: No, we'd just like to have [Mr. Friday?] explain to you what,
uh, what this is about. Only - why we're [listening to?] the camera.E.O. FRIDAY: (inaudible) - y'all move in, and the -
GEORGE STONEY: OK.
E.O. FRIDAY: Now this is Brother George C. Stoney, from the Film TV New York
University - there at their School of the Arts. Now, he comes - he goes around churches and get the history from back in the 1800s on down to the present time, and that's a - that's his job. See, he get all this, goes back to Washington.GEORGE STONEY: Well, the reason we're so interested in Mr. Friday was that he
started working in textiles in the early '30s -E.O. FRIDAY: Early '20s. Twenty-nine.
Q1: The '20s.
REVEREND RAMSAY: Ah.
GEORGE STONEY: And, you see, there weren't many blacks working in the mills
then, so we've had a hard time finding any. (laughter) But, uh, our trail led to him, and he's - he was telling us about what it was like. 00:31:00REVEREND RAMSAY: Uh-huh. You get some history you didn't have.
GEORGE STONEY: Yeah. (laughter)
REVEREND RAMSAY: I can see that. I can see why it's so important that you
have this history. You going to put it in a book?GEORGE STONEY: Well, it's going to be on the television. Yeah. Yes.
REVEREND RAMSAY: Oh, I see.
GEORGE STONEY: Yeah, yes.
REVEREND RAMSAY: I see. Yeah, so - so much for that.
GEORGE STONEY: We're particularly interested in the early '30s, because that
was when a lot of people started forming unions to do something about their conditions.REVEREND RAMSAY: That's right.
GEORGE STONEY: And, uh, they got put down pretty hard, and people have been
struggling ever since.REVEREND RAMSAY: Yeah, yeah.
GEORGE STONEY: And as you know now, that, uh, there are lots of blacks in - in
the mills, and lots of blacks in the union. And they're very strong supporters.REVEREND RAMSAY: Right.
GEORGE STONEY: So we wanted to show that they've got some history in the
mills, even though they - most of them were kept out. Most of the blacks were kept out.REVEREND RAMSAY: Oh, right. Oh, right. Well -
GEORGE STONEY: And Mr. Friday, uh, has been telling us about that.
REVEREND RAMSAY: All right. Well, make yourself at home (overlapping dialogue; inaudible).
GEORGE STONEY: OK. OK. Thank you.
REVEREND RAMSAY: I have to run. Excuse me.
GEORGE STONEY: Yup.
00:32:00E.O. FRIDAY: Now, any other information was -?
GEORGE STONEY: Well, we learned -
F3: You said they just wanted you, not me.
E.O. FRIDAY: No, he asked me to get you.
F3: [I don't know, I'm in no shape and no business?].
GEORGE STONEY: Mr. Friday, we learned something last night from Ernest Moore and
his wife.E.O. FRIDAY: Mm-hmm.
GEORGE STONEY: They said that your mother looked after their children while they
worked in the mill.E.O. FRIDAY: Right. That -
GEORGE STONEY: You remember that?
E.O. FRIDAY: Yeah, I remember that. That's been a long time.
GEORGE STONEY: Yeah.
E.O. FRIDAY: Yeah, she used to do the - the cooking, and, and, the laundry.
They had what we call a hand laundry, and, uh, they would, uh - we'd go up there and get their laundry and bring it back there, and my mother would get an old washpot, and she'd boil them clothes on the washpot, you know, and then take them out and press them, and then just (inaudible). That was - that was the only way we had to make a living back in those days. Yeah. So, uh, we, uh, 00:33:00we made it (inaudible) back in those days.GEORGE STONEY: Well, they were telling us - telling us how much of a help that
was to them.E.O. FRIDAY: Oh, yeah, yeah, it was a big help to them. 'Cause they, they,
they worked in the mill. I believe they was - I believe they was working in the mill (overlapping dialogue; inaudible).GEORGE STONEY: That's right. They were working in the mills at that time, yes.
E.O. FRIDAY: And my wi- and my mother would, uh, cook - she would cook for them
and take care of their children for them. She done all of that. Yeah. But it was back in those - that was back in the '20s. Back in the '20s - (inaudible) when that was going on.GEORGE STONEY: Mrs. Friday, did you ever do that?
E.O. FRIDAY: Yes. She used to keep kids.
ALMA FRIDAY: Yeah, (inaudible).
E.O. FRIDAY: And cook for people and all that.
ALMA FRIDAY: [murmuring]
E.O. FRIDAY: She used to do that.
GEORGE STONEY: And what - you worked for people who worked in the mills?
E.O. FRIDAY: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
ALMA FRIDAY: No - yes.
E.O. FRIDAY: Yeah.
ALMA FRIDAY: Mm-hmm.
E.O. FRIDAY: That was back in the '29, you, you worked, uh, for people that
was - you kept one little kid while the mother and father worked. Well, the one 00:34:00of them was a painter, but [they had it done out?] like in those - uh, in 1928, '29.GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.
E.O. FRIDAY: You know, that's when we got married, in 19- in '37.
GEORGE STONEY: I see.
E.O. FRIDAY: (laughter)
HELFAND: Maybe Mr. Friday can tell us a little bit about his church.
GEORGE STONEY: Yes, uh-huh.
E.O. FRIDAY: Well, this church got a long history. First, this church - the
blacks used to go to the white church, and, uh, then they would let the blacks sit in the back of the church, and then they - they built what we call a lean-to, something like a tent, and then later on there we started to, uh - we finally built the little old church, and we had - had, uh, school and church in the same building. So the schoolhouse used to set right up there on that vacant lot up there. And then, then later they built this - built this church. Now, 00:35:00this church burned down in 1939 (inaudible). And, uh, this church got a history, because it's supposed to - it's supposed to be the oldest church in Gaston County. Before its beginning, because it came from the white church. But, uh, they had a lot of controversy about it, so we did not win, but the actually, First Baptist Church was the oldest church in Gaston County. And the railroad used - was supposed to went through Dallas. And the Dallas people fought against it and they moved it to Gastonia. That's the reason the railroad went through Gastonia. So, uh, it's been a struggle, but we finally made it all right there. Finally made it. So I believe that's about all I have for you.GEORGE STONEY: OK, that's -
E.O. FRIDAY: But I appreciate y'all coming by.
GEORGE STONEY: That's - oh, very good. Thank you.
JAMIE STONEY: You got a fine-looking church here.
E.O. FRIDAY: Thank you. Yeah.
GEORGE STONEY: Oh, it's a beautiful church, yeah.
00:36:00E.O. FRIDAY: And, ah, Reverend Ramsey, he's been here 14 years.
GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.
E.O. FRIDAY: And we gonna have his anniversary pretty soon. But we - he's a
nice minister and everything. And, uh, we get along with him. He lives up at Mooresville. He commutes back and forth, but he's real nice. Yeah, he's real nice.GEORGE STONEY: Do you have any pictures of your mother?
E.O. FRIDAY: You know, I was - it's at the house sometime. I'm gonna have
to call you if you are still in the vicinity.GEORGE STONEY: OK. Yeah.
E.O. FRIDAY: And I got some old pictures of my own, if I can find them, when I
was a little - about knee-high to a duck. (laughter)GEORGE STONEY: Well, we would like very much to get a picture of your - of your
mother, and also, uh, of course, if she - if you have any pictures with the Moore children, it'd be nice.E.O. FRIDAY: Yeah. Well, I got a family of pictures there, of my mother and all
of them, if I can find it.GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.
E.O. FRIDAY: You know how that is.
GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.
E.O. FRIDAY: That was back then in the 19- Mama had that made - uh, I think, at
about two years old. 00:37:00GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.
E.O. FRIDAY: But it's there somewhere in the house if I can find it.
GEORGE STONEY: Good. If - we will - we would like to come by and copy it.
E.O. FRIDAY: Well, I'll tell you what I'll do. I'll keep - you keep
calling me -GEORGE STONEY: OK.
E.O. FRIDAY: - and then I'll call you for when, (overlapping dialogue;
inaudible) -GEORGE STONEY: OK. Do you have our number?
E.O. FRIDAY: Yeah.
GEORGE STONEY: Did I give you a number?
E.O. FRIDAY: Yeah.
GEORGE STONEY: Uh, that's the number where we're staying now. OK, good.
E.O. FRIDAY: Yeah.
GEORGE STONEY: OK.
[break in audio]
HELFAND: (inaudible) my [men?] would be interested to know that - what we've
been talking to you about.E.O. FRIDAY: (inaudible) - that's it. (inaudible). You - you want to get on
it - you got some history you want to tell us about [dollar?]F4: Want who to do what?
E.O. FRIDAY: You want to give us some history about [dollar?]?
GEORGE STONEY: How long have you been going to this church?
F4: Mmmm... I don't want - [stammering] I know he's taking my picture. Um,
I'm 89 years old.GEORGE STONEY: Oh, no.
00:38:00F4: Yes. I was 89 years the four- the fourth day of June, and I went back over
my life, you know. My daddy came from down Cloverside (inaudible), and they said that (inaudible) - that I was about three years old when they moved up here. So I've been here ever since.GEORGE STONEY: And you've been going to the same church.
F4: Yeah. Well, yes. This same church - it was a Methodist church. We - my
daddy went there, and we always come - we went there some too, but it was here.GEORGE STONEY: We've been talking with Mr. Friday about working in the mills.
F4: Uh-huh.
GEORGE STONEY: Did you ever work in the mills?
F4: I never worked in the mill, uh-uh. No, there wasn't no mill work to do
when I came along. Uh, I took care of children, you know, and then - they'd - in their home, and cook, and I would then (inaudible) the homes at - (inaudible) [Flor's?] and [Mary Vin Clelma's?] and [Bob, that's something?] to preach about [Sunday?] - [kept?] them with their little boys.GEORGE STONEY: Did you ever work for any people who worked in the mills?
00:39:00F4: Well, I don't believe so.
GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.
F4: Because I know [I saw it?] one time and he just didn't work out.
[break in audio]
JAMIE STONEY: We're back up.
E.O. FRIDAY: Well, you want back on it?
F4: No, no. (laughter)
JAMIE STONEY: [Lady wants to watch Sunday dinner?].
(overlapping dialogue; inaudible)
GEORGE STONEY: So what we're talking about, the early history of textiles and
the mills here -F4: Oh, well, I been -
GEORGE STONEY: And you see, Mr. Friday talked there from the time he was just 13.
F4: Well, I never did work there. We always stayed on a farm until we got
growing up and then -GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.
F4: I was - I was really, uh, took care of children.
GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.
F4: This preacher, [Bobby Sunday?] - well, I helped him with him when he was a
baby, and then he has two little boys, and I helped with them.GEORGE STONEY: How many children did you have yourself?
F4: One. I had one daughter.
00:40:00GEORGE STONEY: Well, thank you very much for helping us.
F4: Well, you're welcome.
HELFAND: I heard just a little bit of your singing from outside, and it was
really very beautiful.F4: Thank you. Thank you.
GEORGE STONEY: That "Peace Be with You," that is such a nice song.
JAMIE STONEY: Hey, you got a fine group of young folks here, too.
E.O. FRIDAY: Thank you.
JAMIE STONEY: Handsome-looking children.
E.O. FRIDAY: Well -
GEORGE STONEY: Well -
STONEY: Thank you.
E.O. FRIDAY: I'm glad I met y'all, and -
GEORGE STONEY: And we'll be back in touch with you about the pictures and so forth.
E.O. FRIDAY: I'm - I'm gonna look - those pictures, they're somewhere in
the house. I'll find them.GEORGE STONEY: OK, that's great.
E.O. FRIDAY: And I'll give you a - a call.
GEORGE STONEY: Thank you.
E.O. FRIDAY: And we enjoyed it very much.
GEORGE STONEY: OK, uh-huh.
E.O. FRIDAY: So I'm gonna go home and watch the golf game.
GEORGE STONEY: (laughter) When - when was the last time you played golf?
E.O. FRIDAY: It's been - the weather's been too bad. I hadn't been out
there. I'll - I'll get to play some next week, though.GEORGE STONEY: Uh-huh. This next - this coming week?
E.O. FRIDAY: Mm-hmm.
GEORGE STONEY: OK. Well, let us know, because we may want to film you when
you're playing golf.E.O. FRIDAY: I'll do that.
00:41:00GEORGE STONEY: OK. Beautiful. Thank you.
E.O. FRIDAY: Appreciate it.
GEORGE STONEY: Thank you.
E.O. FRIDAY: Y'all have a nice day.
F4: Nice seeing you.
GEORGE STONEY: Can I help you?
F4: Well, I can kind of -
GEORGE STONEY: Here, here. Just, just, just hold on to me.
F4: Well, I'm going to see (inaudible).
GEORGE STONEY: OK, yeah. I don't know if you'll have a chance to walk on -
OK. You've got a ride home?F4: Yes, I - I have my keys around here.
GEORGE STONEY: OK.
E.O. FRIDAY: Where did she go? I thought my wife was behind me.
GEORGE STONEY: She is, she's right around - she's right around back there.
E.O. FRIDAY: I thought she was -
GEORGE STONEY: She's what is known as elusive.
E.O. FRIDAY: I thought you was back there.
ALMA FRIDAY: Huh?
E.O. FRIDAY: I thought you was beh- coming down behind me.
ALMA FRIDAY: Mm-hmm-hmm-hmm.
00:42:00E.O. FRIDAY: (laughter) All right, get - she - they can take your picture
getting in the car. (laughter) Yeah.ALMA FRIDAY: I thought we was through.
E.O. FRIDAY: Now. Now (inaudible) - he can go ahead and get in the car and they
(inaudible) getting in the car.ALMA FRIDAY: Getting in the car?
E.O. FRIDAY: Yeah. No, I said - that's going to take you - going up to the car.
ALMA FRIDAY: Oh, you want a (inaudible).
E.O. FRIDAY: (inaudible)
ALMA FRIDAY: In this old raggedy car.
E.O. FRIDAY: (laughter) I'll give you a ring too tonight.
GEORGE STONEY: OK.
E.O. FRIDAY: Tell you when I'm going to be playing golf.
GEORGE STONEY: Great. Thank you. OK.
E.O. FRIDAY: All right, y'all have a good day now.
00:43:00[sounds of car door slamming, car pulling away, background talking]
[silence from 43:30 to 46:32]
00:44:00[Silence]
00:45:00[Silence]
00:46:00[Silence]
CHARLES WETZELL: - just finally fizzled -
GEORGE STONEY: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
WETZELL: - as a club.
WETZELL: [But we used?] the building - that room after that main auditorium, you
saw square dancing -GEORGE STONEY: Yup.
WETZELL: - out at the old Orthopedic last night. Well, they had - used to have
square dancing here. There's an auditorium very much like the one you just saw.GEORGE STONEY: Tell us about this, the collection in here.
WETZELL: OK. This is a collection here that - oh, part of it was started in -
00:47:00right after World War I, by some of the American Legion people, uh, post-'23 in Gastonia. The building was built, as I've told you, in 1930. So [somewhere?] about 1932 and '3, they started collecting memorabilia from World War I. And they set aside this room right here in the center as the main place for their exhibits. This went on for quite a while, and they did have some nice exhibits in here, but then over the years it got neglected, run down, water leaked, uniforms mildewed - it was just a mess. About four, five years ago, some of us veterans prevailed upon the city to fix the room up, you know, cosmetically, and that we would take all the uniforms out, clean them up, and get some more put into you. So that we did, three or four years ago. So 00:48:00that's the background of the room. But here you've got a World War II GI in combat gear, pretty much like I wore over in Europe. This is a Desert Storm trooper here - he's got that M16 rifle, exactly like they carried with such great success during the, uh, Desert Storm battles. And then, the - going way back to World War I, 1918, here was our GI back then, wore this little tin helmet, had a .45 pistol, or an '03 rifle - that happens to be an actual, oh, a .45 caliber pistol that one was - that was carried by one of our citizens. And then here is a German helmet, along with the German swastika flag that somebody brought back, and kind of given to our museum. Around the parameter here are - well, the very extreme perimeter, you see, uh, patches of the various 00:49:00divisions, or units within the Army, primarily, although I see a Marine back there, I see an Air Force - so various units are represented on the walls on those shields. The flags, all except this one is my North Carolina flag - others represent branches of the service. Army, Navy, Marines, so forth. The black and white one is for MIA POW. You're aware they have their own symbols.GEORGE STONEY: I didn't know that.
WETZELL: Man, there's quite a, uh, an emotional appeal to people that feel
that we have not fully examined the results of missing-in-action people. So that flag is in their memory, so we keep that up there. Over here, we try to have in all these windows a collection of uniforms from every service, and just 00:50:00about every war. For example, there's a current Air Force uniform - happens to be one worn by a nephew of mine. But anyhow, that represents exactly what the Air Force is wearing. I happen to be a cadet at the Citadel so we had to have a cadet uniform in here.GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.
WETZELL: That hasn't changed in 150 years.
GEORGE STONEY: (laughter)
WETZELL: That uniform is the same today as it was 150 years ago. And probably
will be -GEORGE STONEY: I've seen - I've seen them marching in, in Charleston.
WETZELL: Right.
GEORGE STONEY: Yes.
WETZELL: West Point wears the same uniform.
GEORGE STONEY: Yeah.
WETZELL: This happens to be a col- a grandfather of mine who was a colonel back
in 1907; that's the sword that he carried. This is some of the awards and insignia that I got in World War II. Most colorful uniform, I think, is that Marine Corps uniform. That's a sergeant major.GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm. Mm.
WETZELL: His stripes over here tell you that. The stripes on the arm tell you
that he was in it quite a few years. I'm not sure how many - what would you think?GEORGE STONEY: It was called a hash mark. Yes.
00:51:00WETZELL: Hash mark. I think it's about 30.
GEORGE STONEY: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
WETZELL: So that was a very colorful outfit. That's the oldest uniform we
have - that's a Spanish-American war uniform. Notice the chevrons are turned upside down -GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, yeah.
WETZELL: - to what we have them now. And that tells you that that was that era
- 1895. OK? That's a World War II Navy officer's uniform. This is what the ladies wear now in the Air Force, the blue one, and that's what they wore in World War II. We call it the WACs, W-A-C, Women's Army Corps. And that's what they wore. And over here we have quite a collection - there's a modeler's club in Gastonia, and these guys do such fantastic work and detailed work on these scale models of tanks and trucks and vehicles of all kind, even 00:52:00the individual figures that are in the vehicles. It's just amazing to me, and you'll see later some, uh, uh, flying models too, some Air Force models that they've made. These are mostly American. These are German. Then we just in the last couple of weeks decided to put a window in for Civil War memorabilia. This is a group called a 49th North Carolina volunteers. They do - put on reenactments; you know, they reenact exactly like a battle might have been. And that's the uniform they wear. I asked him one time, I said, "What's that breastplate you've got on there? That eagle's upside down! Why is that?" He said, "Oh," he says, "that's where, uh, a Southern soldier would capture or kill a Ge- a, um, the - a Rebel would capture a Yankee, he'd take his breastplate off and turn it upside down.GEORGE STONEY: (laughter) I see.
00:53:00WETZELL: That was his way of showing you that he had gotten him one. Uh, this
of course is, uh, just a scale model of a wagon pulling a cannon, and there is an actual belt worn at Gettysburg, at the Battle of Gettysburg. The [Smire?] family that lives here in Gastonia donated that to me. And this is an actual rifle as carried during the Civil War. It was made in 1863. So that's probably the oldest piece of equipment we have.HELFAND: But the Smires were mill - mill owners, right?
WETZELL: Correct. Smire Mills, right. Sure. You're very right. Bunch of,
uh, more models like these tanks - this is that M1-A1 Abrams tank that we used so successfully in Desert Storm, you know. Performed beautifully. And this was the, uh, T-72 tank the Iraqis used, and we outgunned it quite a bit. Some of the helicopters used in both Vietnam and in the Desert Storm war. There's the 00:54:00oldest plane I've got. This is a Spad. This is what the Americans, the French, the British flew in World War I. Rickenbacker flew one of those when he became an ace. I have the plane - the Fokker plane in here that, uh, the German - what was his name, that was the ace? The German, uh -Baron-GEORGE STONEY: Uh -
JAMIE STONEY: Van Richtofen.
WETZELL: Van Richtofen, ja wohl. Du liebe. Over here, French, World War I,
American, World War I, uniforms. The French started out - instead of that little bit of red on the sleeve, the whole blouse was red, but they finally figured that made too good a target.GEORGE STONEY: (laughter) A target, yeah.
WETZELL: So they switched - made the background blue and put a little bit of red
down there. The, uh - uh, let's see, what else is down there? A [Shako?] - a, uh, bayonet. There's a, uh, carrier for a gas mask. The rifle there is 00:55:00the old '03 rifle that was the standby for Americans during World War I, and even some of them liked it in World War II. We were just talking about how the Marines really preferred the '03 for its accuracy. And I remember being trained with it when I first started in the service. These are some swords that were given to me - they're ceremonial German swords. Both of these are World War II uniforms, this'd be a regular GI. Sergeant -GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.
WETZELL: This guy was an officer in the Air Force - that was the summer weight
(overlapping dialogue; inaudible).GEORGE STONEY: The summer weight. That's - I never had one of those.
WETZELL: Yeah, I didn't either.
GEORGE STONEY: I was in European theater and -
WETZELL: Right.
GEORGE STONEY: - we didn't have -
WETZELL: You didn't have to -
GEORGE STONEY: - we didn't [know?] that much of summer.
WETZELL: It never got warm enough to wear them.
GEORGE STONEY: That's right.
WETZELL: And the Air Force officers always had their caps kind of crumpled like that.
GEORGE STONEY: Yes, that's right.
WETZELL: Ours were sort of straight.
GEORGE STONEY: Yeah.
WETZELL: Graduating here to Vietnam -
GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.
00:56:00WETZELL: - uh, these two uniforms represent some that were worn in Vietnam.
GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.
WETZELL: This being a guy that was a crew chief on a helicopter.
GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.
WETZELL: And that was the helmet that he wore that was, uh, communications gear.
And this guy was just a front-line sergeant there. He, by the way, lives here, he works out at the Schiele Museum. He comes up here and helps me every now and then. This is a, uh, Japanese rifle here from World War II.GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.
WETZELL: Here is the actual pistol, if I can get it out - you might find it a
little interesting - tell [sound of cabinet door sliding] the story every time I get the chance, 'cause I'm so glad that I'm here. This is the actual pistol that the German was using that shot me -GEORGE STONEY: Ooh.
WETZELL: - in December of '44. I was going into [house?] at night, getting
ready to throw a grenade - fortunately I hadn't pulled the pin, but I - just 00:57:00before I could pull the pin I felt the shot here in my chest and my arm.GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.
WETZELL: And he had shot me with his P38, and it knocked me down, and the
sergeant, who was right behind me, he had an M37 machine gun, he just sprayed it over my head and killed the German.GEORGE STONEY: Mm.
WETZELL: So the [aid?] man, when he came in, picked up that pistol from the
German as they were carrying me out and put it up on my stretcher, said, "Lieutenant, you might want to have that as a souvenir."GEORGE STONEY: (laughter)
WETZELL: I said, "Well, I sure do." And there it is, 48 years later. But it
- see, it went in there.GEORGE STONEY: God. Wow.
WETZELL: Came out there, after creasing my chest here, so it was a lucky one.
GEORGE STONEY: Yeah.
WETZELL: Kind of lucky. So I decided I'd -
GEORGE STONEY: Yeah.
WETZELL: - maybe ought to keep that - that's a pretty good souvenir. Didn't
bring back anything else much. Because I had to come back the hospital route, and they surely didn't let you carry much.GEORGE STONEY: Uh-huh.
00:58:00WETZELL: That's the German, uh, uniform there.
GEORGE STONEY: Mm. That's very well-preserved.
WETZELL: One of the few in it, though - the guy that had it's the same one
that had that, uh, rifle over there from the Civil War. He kept things real nice. He told me - I said, "What does this stand for here? That badge?" He said, "That silver?" He said, "That's for being wounded, like in our army it was the Purple Heart."GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm. Yes. Mm-hmm.
WETZELL: But for the first wound they got kind of a bronze one, then a gold one,
and for three wounds you got a silver one, so he had been wounded three times.GEORGE STONEY: Ah. Mm-hmm.
WETZELL: That's what that meant. That's about all I know. The iron cross -
there's several degrees of that. That he got in 1939. So he probably wasn't alive after the end of the war.GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.
WETZELL: If he was still living in '39, very few of them lived to see the end
of the war in Germany. 00:59:00So anyhow, that's part of the collection.HELFAND: Mr. Wetzel, isn't that your grandfather that was the mill owner?
WETZELL: Yes, that's him. Correct.
HELFAND: There's a picture of him, George.
WETZELL: He, uh - he owned -
GEORGE STONEY: I'm just going to do that in here.
WETZELL: - twelve, uh, cotton mills at one time. Because they started out, he
was just a farmer down here. Got himself elected sheriff up at Dallas. And the sheriff, back in those days, also collected taxes, and he must have been a pretty heavy-handed tax collector, because they said they gave him a commission on however much he collected, you know?GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
WETZELL: So he must have done pretty well at that. So then they moved to
Gastonia, and he must have been a pretty good salesman, also, ['cause?] he talked some men into putting money in with him and starting some mills around here. And within 10 years, as I said, from just the boy on a farm, he had about 10 mills that he was present at. But he died young. 01:00:00He was only 58 and he died in 1920, just a year before I was born. I was born -GEORGE STONEY: And those mills then kept in your family?
WETZELL: Did for a while, yes, through those Depression years that you are
investigating right now. You know, I can remember since, um, I was, uh, a child of some of the mill owners, they were pretty apprehensive, my family was, about us during those times. I mean for it - what could happen, you know. So (inaudible) they took us to school and picked us up, and in other words, we weren't just turned loose -GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.
WETZELL: - for several years there.
GEORGE STONEY: What were they afraid of?
WETZELL: Kidnapping, I would assume.
GEORGE STONEY: Hmm.
WETZELL: That might be kidnapped or harmed in some way, held as a hostage or - I
don't know that we did that back in those days, but -GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
WETZELL: I - really we - we really did not talk about it at the time, but I'm
going more by hindsight now. As I look back - my brother has talked to me, but 01:01:00he's no longer living. But he's [wanted?] to talk to me about it in later years - he said, "[Sal?], you were young, and you didn't realize, but - that Mom and Daddy were really scared to death that something would happen to us.JAMIE STONEY: Well, wasn't this about the time that the Lindbergh child had
been kidnapped, and -WETZELL: That's exactly right.
JAMIE STONEY: - they grabbed that kid in Rochester, and all the gangsters were
grabbing children for hostages.WETZELL: That's another thing. All that about that time. Right.
JAMIE STONEY: Yeah, Ma Barker and Karpis and those people were into child
kidnapping, and -WETZELL: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
JAMIE STONEY: So it was a big public, uh, outcry at the time.
WETZELL: Right. So they were certainly very much aware of it as a possibility.
To my knowledge, no of it happened around here - I don't know of any instances like that.GEORGE STONEY: Well, back in '29, when the Loray Strike began -
WETZELL: Yes.
GEORGE STONEY: - it was heavily in-
WETZELL: I was eight years old, yeah.
GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm. Uh, what's the legend of that? What's the memory of
that - of the '29 strike? 01:02:00WETZELL: Well, you know, again, I'm an eight-year-old - I was an eight-year-old.
GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm, yup, yup.
WETZELL: So I'd have to tell you that, uh, my first memories were of
excitement that all these soldiers were coming into town.GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.
WETZELL: I'd never seen that many soldiers around Gastonia before - I mean,
they were National Guard troops brought in to, uh, keep down the trouble. Uh, so I was aware of that as an excitement. I knew there was fear on the part of my parents and other people in town, because as I told you, the way they were looking after me so closely.GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.
WETZELL: And didn't want me out of their sight and so forth. I wanted to go
over where all the action was, you know? These soldiers were camped out there all around Loray. But we did ride through there once and they let me see, but I was not allowed to get out and walk around over there. And, uh, I - I was just aware of a tenseness among my family. A very extreme tenseness. Didn't fully 01:03:00understand why.GEORGE STONEY: Now, this was in -
WETZELL: Knew it had something to do with this.
GEORGE STONEY: This was in '29.
WETZELL: Yes, sir.
GEORGE STONEY: OK.
WETZELL: 'Twenty-nine.
GEORGE STONEY: So -
WETZELL: At that time, I - all my family were involved in mills - not the Loray,
but - because I told you my grandfather owned his list of mills, 10 or 12 that he was president. But he died in '20, but his sons, my uncles and my father, worked some for them too - were running those mills. But then come the Depression they lost just about all of it. But during those particular times, uh, they had threats of strikes, uh, at the Armstrong groups of mills too.GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.
WETZELL: Uh, exactly what the final results were with them, I'm not too clear.
I do know that one or two of them were shut down for some time.GEORGE STONEY: Well, we have been going back over the Charlotte Observer, and so
01:04:00they - the Charlotte Observer tells us that there were a series of strikes between '29 and '34, before the big general strike -WETZELL: Right.
GEORGE STONEY: - that shut down every mill in Gaston County.
WETZELL: Right, right.
GEORGE STONEY: And brought in the National Guard again.
WETZELL: Right. Again. Yes.
GEORGE STONEY: Now, you were, uh, you were in high school by that time.
WETZELL: Correct. Right.
GEORGE STONEY: What do you remember about that?
WETZELL: Uh, the main thing I remember about those early high school days is we
had practically - I mean, the mills were just about shut down. There was no money. I mean, food and clothes, uh, were the main priority. Fortunately, I was from a family that had a little something to begin with, but some of these kids were coming to school with me that - and I'm ashamed to tell you, we teased some of them, too. I'm ashamed to say it now. But Lord, they were just coming barefooted and maybe not even a sandwich to eat for the day. 01:05:00That's the part that I remember, not so much violence - I don't remember a lot of violence, unless it was between some of us kids. I was picked on a little bit as being a mill owner's son, and if I wore something a little too fancy - and occasionally my mother would try to (laughter) make me dress up a little bit, and I can remember - and she knows it to this day - I'd go out to the garage and if I had on a fancy hat or something I'd take that hat off and hide it or a tie, anything like that. And then I got home, I'd put all that back on and come in the house.GEORGE STONEY: (laughter)
WETZELL: She - she thought that, that I never knew that, uh, she knew that.
GEORGE STONEY: Yeah.
WETZELL: But that sort of thing, um, was this. The main feeling that I recall -
but yet there was so much, uh, how do I put it - we all were pretty much in the same boat. It wasn't like there were extremes here and there. A few of us 01:06:00did have it a lot better than the others as far as being able to eat food and wear decent clothes, but there were so few of us, and we did meld in with them pretty well. At least I learned to.GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.
WETZELL: They were my buddies, and I was not going to be different from them.
GEORGE STONEY: Did you ever bring them home, or -?
WETZELL: I did. I can remember when we moved out to - from downtown into
what's called Armstrong Circle, which is directly below where you were - where the orthopedic hospital is, there's a development right down at the bottom of that hill called Armstrong Circle. Well, we moved out there about - just about that time, when I was 'round eight or nine years old. And I can remember - and that was, like, out in the country. I had ponies and all that. And I can remember bringing some of them home, and can remember even one of the black boys 01:07:00that worked on the farm just down below us there - used to bring him up to the house. And Mother says she can remember seeing me - she'd be looking out the window and seeing clothes falling down from upstairs, and I was throwing some of my clothes out to Jake downstairs there.GEORGE STONEY: (laughter)
WETZELL: But yes, I brought some of the boys home with me, yes, we did. There
was not a general mixing, though, I'll have to admit. No, it was a still pretty sharp line drawn between the mill boys and the city boys. And that was true for a long time, and probably still is to a degree.GEORGE STONEY: Well, I would just - this - doing this film has triggered my own
memory, and I remember exactly the same thing in my high school, in Winston-Salem.WETZELL: Mm-hmm.
GEORGE STONEY: And very few of the people from the Arista ill village and South
01:08:00side, uh, ever got more than, you know, sophomores in high school and then they were put in the shop class.WETZELL: Yeah, right.
GEORGE STONEY: So there was a - we weren't conscious of that as a strategy,
but it just happened.WETZELL: Happened.
GEORGE STONEY: And you'd just take it as you breathe, almost.
WETZELL: Exactly. I hadn't thought about that, but you're right, they did
wind up mostly in the shop classes.GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.
WETZELL: Because they just knew they weren't going any further. There were
only a handful of us that went on to college. I had a class of 200 in high school in 1938 - I mean, seniors - and I bet maybe 10 of us went on to college. 'Course, the war -GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
WETZELL: - came on pretty soon after that, and that took care of that.
(laughter) But, uh, at that time I think there - maybe a few went to a junior college over on Belmont Ave -GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.
WETZELL: - but as far as going off to college, it may be wasn't even 10 of us.
I could just about count them.GEORGE STONEY: Well, one of the things that surprised me in doing this film is
01:09:00to meet so many textile workers, particularly women, who went on to college in mid-life -WETZELL: Mm-hmm.
GEORGE STONEY: - and got educations and so forth -
WETZELL: Yes, yes.
GEORGE STONEY: - and where they got the push from I don't know, but we - we
found a lot of them.WETZELL: I know, don't you wonder?
GEORGE STONEY: We found a lot of them out there.
WETZELL: And I know you wonder about it, but, uh, we see some mighty, sharp
women in textiles now, and I mean not just young girls either, but I'm impressed with the - like, I used to work for the RL Stowe mills before I retired, over in Belmont. I was vice-president of sales for them. But there were several really sharp women over there. They have made their place in textiles now.GEORGE STONEY: Now, d- when sitting around the table, did you hear your parents
or your uncles talk about, uh, this problem in the th- in the mid-'30s?WETZELL: In the mid-'30s, (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) -
GEORGE STONEY: When Roosevelt came in and made all those big changes?
01:10:00WETZELL: Well, I just remember very well, uh, there's debate between Hoover
and Roosevelt, all right. And, uh, they all seemed to be in favor of Roosevelt.GEORGE STONEY: Your family.
WETZELL: My family was.
GEORGE STONEY: Yeah.
WETZELL: Oh, yeah, yeah.
GEORGE STONEY: Well, it's interesting, we were talking -
WETZELL: Didn't want those Hoover days anymore.
GEORGE STONEY: Well, we were talking with Elliot White, whose father owned a
mill up in Graham.WETZELL: Mm-hmm.
GEORGE STONEY: And he was saying that his father voted for Roosevelt, and then
when the NRA came in, he had a different view. And when the Supreme Court declared the NRA unconstitutional, he said he came back shouting. (laughter)WETZELL: (laughter) Well, I can remember - speaking of the NRA, I remember my
brother was quite an artist, and entered an art contest drawing that - and you remember the symbol was an eagle -GEORGE STONEY: Yup, gotcha, yup.
WETZELL: - with the NRA across the eagle.
GEORGE STONEY: Yup, yup.
WETZELL: And he won some kind of a prize. I remember that must have been in -
01:11:00when did it start, about '35 or '6?GEORGE STONEY: Uh, '30- actually, it started in June of '33. That's (inaudible).
WETZELL: Let me show you a WPA project -
GEORGE STONEY: OK.
WETZELL: - that somebody gave me an old brass plate just the other day. Where
is that thing. Here. We have a swimming pool and that was built in 1935, '37 -GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.
WETZELL: - by the Works Progress Administration. And I used to work down there
as a lifeguard at that swimming pool -GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.
WETZELL: - and the lady that was the manager of it is still living, and when
they remodeled the pool recently that pulled that old plate out -GEORGE STONEY: (laughter)
WETZELL: - and she knew I was collecting things for this museum here -
GEORGE STONEY: Yup.
WETZELL: - and she said, "and there's one of the tags we used to put on the
clothes, you know -"GEORGE STONEY: Yeah.
WETZELL: "- and a basket, and..."
GEORGE STONEY: Well, it's interesting, uh, there were -
WETZELL: But that's WPA. Works Progress.
01:12:00GEORGE STONEY: There were so many jokes about people being on WPA and not doing
any work -WETZELL: Yeah.
GEORGE STONEY: - and yet you see all kinds of things like this proving that they
did a lot of work.WETZELL: Oh, did a lot of work. Yes, sir.
GEORGE STONEY: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
WETZELL: This is some more memorabilia - I was telling you again about my
grandfather, and now that's him in his younger days.GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.
WETZELL: That's him, and this is my mother with the long hair there. That's
about the time he was sheriff up in Dallas -GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.
WETZELL: - around 1900. And, uh, that's just a group picture of him.
GEORGE STONEY: (overlapping dialogue; inaudible)
WETZELL: Mother said they actually lived in the jail house up there in Dallas
for those - for five years.GEORGE STONEY: Yeah, that was very often the way it was done, yeah.
WETZELL: Right.
GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.
WETZELL: And these are these, uh, sons of his that later had to run these mills -
GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
WETZELL: - after he died so early. Ah, another thing that kind of appalls me as
I look at it - and I've heard about this, but until I saw in the eyes of these children - this is 1906. These children, 10, 11, 12 years old, worked in the 01:13:00mills 10 and 12 hours a day.GEORGE STONEY: Hmm.
WETZELL: Maybe 50 cents a day. Look, they're hollow-eyed -
GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.
WETZELL: Just children.
GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.
WETZELL: Not only was the work hard, but it was dangerous. They had these
pulleys that, uh, would go up to the top of the ceiling and back down to the motors, and I'm sure many of them must have been just mangled, uh -GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.
WETZELL: - physically, and think of the - just the physical stress on them at
that young age, to have to work those long hours for so little.GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.
WETZELL: So to me, that's one of the blackest marks on our otherwise pretty
good history in textiles around this part of the country. But that was a black mark.GEORGE STONEY: Did you - when did you discover this?
WETZELL: This picture?
GEORGE STONEY: No, uh, the fact that this was happening.
01:14:00WETZELL: Oh, I guess about the time I got to high school, I began to be aware
that some of the girls were coming in just dragging in and could hardly walk, much less be alert to learn. And I'd ask why, and they'd say, well, they'd been working in the mill all night. And that just started getting to me.GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.
WETZELL: Because I was the head of the student government, and, you know, I was
supposed to discipline them for things like that, and I didn't have the heart for that -GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm, mmm.
WETZELL: - when I found out some of that. Mmm. That just happens to be about
the only one I had like that. This is rather interesting, goes back to 1906, down Main Street. The women are carrying signs, "Vote Against Liquor for My Sake." In other words, they're demanding Prohibition.GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.
WETZELL: Nineteen oh-six. Right out here on Main Street. "For the Home."
Some of these signs I can't read, but -GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.
01:15:00WETZELL: - look at the dresses, you can tell it's around the turn of the century.
GEORGE STONEY: Now, in your father's mills and family's mills, did they have
mill villages?WETZELL: Oh, yes. All of them did. Yes. For about 25 cents a room per week -
GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
WETZELL: - they could rent the houses, so it was practically given to them. For
years that's all they charged them.GEORGE STONEY: Did you ever go out to any of the mill villages? Could you
describe what it was like?WETZELL: Yes. Uh, I lived in one, (laughter) not too long after that - went
right after World War II, when I, uh, went as superintendent of one of the mills. They hadn't changed much.GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.
WETZELL: So I can tell you. It would be four basic rooms, one bathroom inside,
usually. Now, some of the early ones had the bathroom outside, but now, the time I came along, they always had one inside. Uh, the heat was usually just a space heater, one big stove, pot-belly stove in the middle that furnished the heat, and no underpinning to the house at all. And all gathered right around 01:16:00the mill so they could hear the whistle, the mill whistle, because as a supervisor, I remember my wife complaining about the noise that those spindles made at night, and I said, "What you ought to worry about is when they stop."GEORGE STONEY: (laughter)
WETZELL: "If you don't hear them, that's when I got to be over there.
Because that's music to my ears to hear them running." And - but that was - and - but there was a rapport among those people. They, uh, had lived there a long time together, they had their own groups, had their ball teams and so forth - it was a, really a - basically a good rapport among - the ones that I was aware of.GEORGE STONEY: What concern did you as a supervisor have - uh, superintendent
have about people's habits, uh, behavior in the, in the mill village?WETZELL: Right. Well, I had to be concerned, particularly in Waxhaw, because I
had about the only telephone of the village, and they would come to me for just 01:17:00everything. We didn't even have a policeman in town. I had to be the policeman and the lawyer and the doctor, a little bit of everything. Oh, uh, mainly it was family disputes that broke out into some sort of violence, that, you know, I'd have to go in and get somebody to help me put down. Right after the war I can remember a few instances of some veterans who were kind of messed up emotionally actually going berserk in the mill, and that was probably the scariest time where I - I was afraid he was going to get caught in one of those belts (inaudible). And we just had about five of us get on top of him until a doctor could get to him and give him a shot to calm him down. But, uh, we didn't have many really serious altercations, as I recall. You know, they get drunk on weekends, and, uh, but you knew who they were and you kind of expected 01:18:00it, and, uh, they didn't do any body no harm, and as long as they were there for work, uh, we let a lot of that slide.GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.
WETZELL: Don't know anything about drugs, I never heard of it at that time.
That's something new.GEORGE STONEY: Yeah, yeah.
WETZELL: Drinking, yes - if that's a drug, they used plenty of that.
GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
WETZELL: But they, uh - they knew they couldn't drink on the job. But some
tried it.GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.
WETZELL: Especially the cotton men that handled the cotton - they'd get back
in those bales of cotton, they'd keep a bottle back there, especially the black guys. They were kind of off to themselves, but -GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.
WETZELL: - they pretty soon learned that I wasn't going to put up with that,
so they - they didn't. Not on the job, but they sure would, soon as they could get off the job. But they weren't paid much, but gradually, after World War II, they started bringing their pay scale back up rather rapidly, and I was pleased with it.GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm. Did - you, you did -?
WETZELL: But [for the scale?] after the war.
01:19:00GEORGE STONEY: How many blacks did you have, relative to -?
WETZELL: You talking about, say, in the early '40s?
GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.
WETZELL: Uh, just out in the - the - handle the cotton, would - maybe five or
six that just handled the bale.GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.
WETZELL: Nobody worked in the mill, none of the - not any worked - we'd call
them - what did you call them? The yard crew.GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
WETZELL: The yard crew. They would do the handling of cotton off of a truck
into the warehouse, and that was all. And cleaning up.GEORGE STONEY: Did anybody ever question that?
WETZELL: Not in the early days.
GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.
WETZELL: But they certainly did -
GEORGE STONEY: Sure.
WETZELL: - you know, later.
GEORGE STONEY: Of course.
WETZELL: Yeah. Uh, and I don't remember any one individual coming to me and
saying, "How about me getting a job out here in the mill?" I don't recall a single one.GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.
WETZELL: Even - I guess they just knew that there was no chance of that. But
come to think of it, I'm kind of surprised that some of them didn't, because some of them were pretty bright.GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.
01:20:00WETZELL: Some of them. Now, they'd - but most of them had been in those ruts
for so long, they really were pretty dull guys.GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
WETZELL: They just didn't need to know much, and they didn't. (overlapping
dialogue; inaudible)GEORGE STONEY: Now, one of the things that we keep seeing in these letters that
were written to Washington in the early '30s, after the New Deal got started - people were complaining that, uh, they were getting fired because they were members of unions, and they were getting replaced by farmers, uh, rather -WETZELL: Now, what year are you talking about, now?
GEORGE STONEY: This is the '33, '34.
WETZELL: Mm-hmm. I expect that's true. I expect that happened. Union was
certainly a dirty word around here, I can tell you that. And still is, in Gaston County. And always will be, I guess. That's just, uh - I think it's mainly because of that Loray strike.GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.
WETZELL: It was such a dirty time in the - I mean, not - yeah - not pointing
fingers as to whose fault it was, obviously it was the fau- a lot of it was the fault of the mill owners for allowing this kind of thing to go on. 01:21:00GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.
WETZELL: But when the strikers do something like this, kill our Chief of Police,
it's hard to forget something like that.GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
WETZELL: And we aren't allowed to forget it, I guess, is another way to put
it. I was born and raised here, so, uh, those of us who remember those days -GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.
WETZELL: - uh, they're not going to forget it easily. And it's definitely
connected with the unions. And you know enough, you've studied about this here, to know that there was a communist connection.GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.
WETZELL: You're aware of that, aren't you?
GEORGE STONEY: [Very questioned, but?] -
WETZELL: Beal was the -
GEORGE STONEY: Yes, of course.
WETZELL: Fred Beal.
GEORGE STONEY: That's right, yeah.
WETZELL: He was brought over here -
GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.
WETZELL: - from Russia. And what did he finally say that - I think they - they
let him go back to Russia and he stayed there awhile, said he believed he'd rather be a prisoner over here than a free man in Russia.GEORGE STONEY: (laughter) That's right.
WETZELL: So he came back and stood trial.
GEORGE STONEY: Yeah, yeah.
WETZELL: Whereas it says something about - here, "Wide search is being made
for Fred Erwin Beal." 01:22:00GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Now, that's before the - uh, the woman was
killed, was it?WETZELL: Yes.
GEORGE STONEY: Yes.
WETZELL: Just before. She was killed right after that. You know, I've never
seen a paper - I'd like to read the article. If the paper even carried it, I don't know.GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Uh-huh.
WETZELL: You know?
GEORGE STONEY: Well, I'll see if I can f- I'm sure that it was written in
the Charlotte Observer, and I'll -WETZELL: Should have been.
GEORGE STONEY: - I'll see if - I'll see if I can get that for you.
WETZELL: Yeah, I would like to see that.
GEORGE STONEY: I may be able to get a, a, uh -
WETZELL: Because as I present the history of Gastonia, which we will someday in
this building, I want to present both sides, and I don't want to make it look like, oh, it was just a jolly sweet time, and all those nice mill owners just treated these employees so lovely. It wasn't that way.GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.
WETZELL: And I want to know both sides.
GEORGE STONEY: Do we have any of those -
JAMIE STONEY: What were the circumstances of -
GEORGE STONEY: - uh, files with us?
HELFAND: What kind of stuff?
01:23:00WETZELL: I - 'course, I have a book that might give it a little more concise
than this. Now, this was written, I guess, the day after he was shot. Let me see. "Eyewitness tells of the shooting of chief of police O.F. Adderholt." This is dated June 8, 1929, on a Saturday afternoon. "Chief and policeman Gilbert struggled with guard to take gun. [Otto Mason?], employee of the Loray Mill who lives on the lot adjoining that occupied by the NTWU headquarters -" that's the, the striking group - "building on North Loray Street said that last night he saw the beginning and the end of the attack upon Chief Adderholt and Patrolman Gilbert. According to Mason, Officer Jackson and another officer 01:24:00unknown to him visited strike headquarters early in the evening, but stayed only a few moments before they quit the scene and disappeared. It was then, said Mason, that Fred Beal and Amy Schechter, principal leaders of the strike, commanded the listening strikers gathered for the evening meeting to form a picket line and march to the mill," ah, "and to go to the mill. The mass of strikers were said to have formed the line and started off in -" it's on the back page. I'm afraid that page isn't here. Why don't I see what else it says. "State and nationwide search has been made for Fred Beal by Gastonia police, a result of his activities in inspiring the murderous attack on Gastonia officers here last night. Chief of Police Adderholt suffered injuries that 01:25:00proved fatal. As soon as the police force could gather itself, uh, a frantic search was made for him. Frenzied deputies and grizzled veterans of the force joined forces in scouring every nook and cranny. He's reported to have told his armed guards to shoot and shoot to kill. A short while after the happening, he was said to have been seen in the office of Western Union. A hurried run there by officers brought information that he'd just left. Army Schechter and Vera Buch were arrested in a telephone booth phoning to New York. Officer Adderholt was in a serious condition at the hospital. He has a fighting chance. He said to his wife, 'I'm gone, I'm gone. I can't get my breath, I'm 01:26:00slipping.' He murmured three words over and over. Later he received stimulants, grew quieter and at 4:30 was resting easily. Uh... some shots must have entered his abdomen. Physician believes he will recover, although he's suffering a great deal." Well, of course he died. Soon after that - I don't see the more details about the actual encounter itself.GEORGE STONEY: Well, we'll, we'll look that up in the Charlotte Observer -
WETZELL: OK.
GEORGE STONEY: - and if I can get a copy of it, I'll, I'll, uh -
WETZELL: Good.
GEORGE STONEY: - a Xerox of it, I'll send it to you.
HELFAND: Now, Mr. Wetzell, you said that, uh, people don't want to forget. I
think that was the word you used.WETZELL: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
HELFAND: What do you mean?
WETZELL: Well, this, uh - the strikers were a group of people that were,
attacked our - the roots of our society when they killed our police chief. You know, no matter what their complaints were, and they were grievous, obviously, 01:27:00obviously they were. But that's just not the way we handle things down here, is with force like that. Never had been, and we didn't want to start then. No matter how much complaints they had, they were not to be taking force like this, killing our police chief and injuring other officers. So that's what I'm saying.GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.
WETZELL: That's - it's just a type of thing that, uh, was a very bad slap in
the face to us, that we now connect all unions kind of with this type of, uh, attitude, that if you can't get them to do your way then just beat up on them. I know it very well - I've been around a long time; I know that all that's changed now, the unions certainly don't work that way now, but there's still that feeling there.JAMIE STONEY: But yet the - but yet the union was facing tear gas and machine guns.
01:28:00WETZELL: Yes, it's true.
JAMIE STONEY: And armed troops.
WETZELL: That's true.
JAMIE STONEY: And all they had - so it could be considered something like a
guerrilla war.WETZELL: Yeah, that's true. But we were the owners of the mill - we had a job
for them if they wanted it, and if they didn't all they had to do was go back to the hills. I mean, that was sort of the attitude of the owners. You know. They weren't begging them to stay and work. As grievous as those conditions were, that we now realize. And I didn't realize it at the time, as a kid, an eight-year-old kid, you know, I didn't know these little children were working all day in the mill? I would have - I just - I almost cry every time I see that picture.GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.
JAMIE STONEY: (overlapping dialogue; inaudible)
WETZELL: I think it's just heartbreaking.
GEORGE STONEY: OK, let's hold it just a moment -
[break in audio]
GEORGE STONEY: He still [touched?] that worker. And we got a beautiful example
01:29:00of that in Gadsden, Alabama, where they're just - the mill has absolutely gone, but a lot of them have bricks from it.WETZELL: Oh, yeah.
GEORGE STONEY: They use them as doorstops, they wrap it up in tinfoil - I got a brick.
WETZELL: Yeah.
GEORGE STONEY: Isn't that interesting?
WETZELL: Yes, well.
GEORGE STONEY: And one of them has a - has a -
WETZELL: I told you about the mill, the Clara Mill? It was named for my mother,
been torn down. I got four of those bricks in my house if you want to see them. (laughter) The Clara bricks are still there.GEORGE STONEY: Yeah. But it's fascinating to see how - how much they yearn
for some -WETZELL: Yeah, something to hold on to. And my wife pooh-poohs that. She
thinks I overdo that kind of thing, but aah, it's hard to get away from it completely.GEORGE STONEY: Yeah.
WETZELL: Especially when I was named for this grandfather, and, uh, (overlapping
dialogue; inaudible) -GEORGE STONEY: Tell me again about your grandfather.
WETZELL: OK.
GEORGE STONEY: And you want to look at me part of the time when you talk.
WETZELL: Charlie - yeah, Charlie Armstrong was his name. Charles Beauregard.
GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm. (laughter)
WETZELL: I'm glad they didn't stick me with the Beauregard part, but I'm
01:30:00Charles Armstong Wetzell, named for him. He was one of, uh - oh, how many kids? I think six - grew up on a farm down here, south of Gastonia, in what they call the New Hope section. And he just worked on the farm with his mother and daddy, and his father died at an early age. And he wanted to - I don't know whether it was a friend that urged him to go with him - to go down to Florida selling clocks and counterpanes - do you know what a counterpane is? I didn't until my mother explained. It's a bedspread. And that's another name for a bedspread, a counterpane. Well, they happened to have been made right over here, somewhere in this area. And then he and his friend thought I'd be great - let's go down to Florida, we sell these things. So they took off about a year, selling clocks and counterpanes. And -GEORGE STONEY: About what year was this?
01:31:00WETZELL: This would have been 19- oh, probably '10, '09 or '10, right
about then. But anyhow, he came back and had enough money to start a furniture store first and then got himself elected sheriff. I think I mentioned that to you, and that brought in a little money. And then got elected mayor of the city of Gastonia. He's the only one that I know of that was both sheriff of the county and mayor of the city. Anyhow, he started really in about 1908, 1909, with the first mill - was the Clara, which he named for my mother, who was his oldest daughter. That was a - they seemed to want to name them for their daughters back in those days, 'cause they later named one of the mills the Helen, and - so those were fairly successful, mainly because he recruited very, 01:32:00uh, astute men at running these (inaudible). He knew nothing about the inner workings of a mill. And, uh, he just grew up on a farm. But he apparently had - he was a salesman, he could convince people that, uh, he was honest and that anything he was going to - involve them was going to be done properly and above-board and would probably be profitable. And so he was able to get men to, uh, invest with him. But they always wanted him to be listed as president. I think I have a picture here that I brought - here it is - of him. You'll see, C.B. Armstrong, President, and what it lists he was president of. Citizen National Bank, Clara Manufactory, Monarch Cotton Mill, Seminole Mill, Mutual Mill, [Letmore?], Victory Yarn Mill, and so on and so on. Then the [Armington?] 01:33:00Hotel Company, and Armstrong Landed Investment Company. But anyhow, from just a very meager beginning - but the guy died when he was only 59 years old. He never realized his potential. And, uh, died just the year before I was born. So I never knew him. But I've heard so much about him and just feel like there's a part of him in me, I guess. His brothers, ah, did all right for the first, oh, early '20s with the mills, because the times were good. And the mills were already established -GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.
WETZELL: - as long as they left those key men in there running them they did
pretty well. (inaudible) when the Depression came, they got caught short on cotton, which is the key thing I've learned since then, if - you know, if you don't buy your cotton right, you can really lose your shirt. If you buy your 01:34:00cotton at 50 cents a pound and then next week it drops to 30 cents a pound, you've still got to buy that 50 cents as long as your contract lasts, even though your competitors may be buying it at 30, so it's just a -GEORGE STONEY: And at that time it was going up and down and up and down -
WETZELL: Up and down.
GEORGE STONEY: And the late '20s, and -
WETZELL: Correct.
GEORGE STONEY: Yeah.
WETZELL: And it got down to 10 cents a pound at one time.
GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.
WETZELL: But tonight it's, like, 80 cents a pound, probably, today.
GEORGE STONEY: Yup, yup, yup.
WETZELL: So that'll just give you an example of some of the things - now, I
was too young to really understand. Uh, my brother was a little older. He keeps saying - he used to say to me, he said, "God," he said, "if our uncles could have just held onto one of all those mills, we wouldn't have been greedy."GEORGE STONEY: (laughter)
WETZELL: "If they just held onto one." They lost all of them. So of course
he and I had to just go out and work like everybody else. Instead of inheriting a cotton mill for us to just sit back and let somebody run.GEORGE STONEY: Well -
WETZELL: Which was best for us, I'm sure.
GEORGE STONEY: - there are very few local owners now, are they?
01:35:00WETZELL: Correct. That's true. Very few. Duke Kimbrell is probably one of
the very few - and the Robinson family that he bought the mills from. Uh, he's about the only one, I guess, now. And the LaFarr family. I used to work for the LaFarr - that was my first job in the textile mills, was with the LaFarr. But they still own a group of them. And they're local. And Duke Kimbrell of Parkdale Mills is one of the real outstanding success stories in textiles in the whole country, especially for Gastonia. He is one of the top men. He -GEORGE STONEY: [Well, I?] -
WETZELL: - these guys, we grew up together here.
GEORGE STONEY: When I grew up in Winston-Salem, the - all the Reynolds Tobacco
Company, Hanes Knitting Mills, Arista -WETZELL: Hanes, yeah.
GEORGE STONEY: - uh, Chatham Banking Company, the [Bunsen?] - all of those
companies were owned by people who we saw on the street.WETZELL: Mm-hmm.
GEORGE STONEY: And saw them driving their big cars. (laughter)
01:36:00WETZELL: Right.
GEORGE STONEY: We saw them at big civic functions. We knew about all that.
Now, of course, it's so changed - there was a guy with an Italian name who was the head of Reynolds at one time. (laughter)WETZELL: (laughter)
GEORGE STONEY: And then they moved their headquarters to Atlanta.
WETZELL: Yes.
GEORGE STONEY: Was that a shock.
WETZELL: Well, when the Goldbergs bought out the Armstrongs, now, that was a
real shock. They changed their name later from Goldberg to Gurney. I don't know why, but they did. And they are today - there's quite a few families of Gurneys around here. And Planer. Some of them that were Goldbergs changed their name to Planer. But they did fairly well with those mills for a while. Now, one of my uncles, Clyde Armstrong, stayed with that group of the Goldbergs that bought out part of the mill, as sort of a front-man for them.GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.
WETZELL: He was, I think, listed as treasurer and sat in the front office.
GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.
01:37:00WETZELL: He was the Armstrong (laughter) quote, you know, that people could see
up there.GEORGE STONEY: Yeah.
WETZELL: And, uh, but then he died fairly early, and sold his interests. And
then there were very few boys in my generation that could carry it on. And they died early. My brother and, and a cousin all died fairly young. So I was the only one to carry it on. I wound up, uh, selling, which was my first love anyhow in textiles, selling yarn for a group of mills in Belmont. The R.L. Stowe group. That's a family-owned business. Still is.GEORGE STONEY: The Stowes are still there.
WETZELL: Yes.
GEORGE STONEY: Yup.
WETZELL: Very much so.
GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.
WETZELL: Still own a few of the houses.
GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.
WETZELL: They're one of the few, but they are, I noticed, are selling them off
right now.GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
WETZELL: But up until just a few years ago, they owned the houses.
GEORGE STONEY: Well, now, we're talking about the - you said you're going to
get kind of both sides of this in your, your museum eventually. 01:38:00WETZELL: Yes.
GEORGE STONEY: Want to show you some of the documents that we came with.
Here's one. This - uh, when the NRA was, um, supposedly in force, this complaint was sent to Washington, and Judy Helfand found this in the NRA file.WETZELL: Mm-hmm.
GEORGE STONEY: So it sent to -
WETZELL: Nineteen thirty-four.
GEORGE STONEY: That's right.
WETZELL: OK.
GEORGE STONEY: January, uh, '34. And we - we brought it here because it was
the Eagle. We showed it to some people who recognized the name, Bruce Graham, and they thought he was still alive when we found this man.WETZELL: Well, yeah, the Stowes owned the Eagle.
GEORGE STONEY: Yeah.
WETZELL: Th-th-that was one of the mills I sold yarn for.
GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.
WETZELL: But go ahead.
GEORGE STONEY: Well, Bruce Graham, we found him, he was in his middle eighties -
WETZELL: Mm-hmm.
GEORGE STONEY: - out on his farm -
WETZELL: Yeah.
GEORGE STONEY: - and he remembered - he told us about writing this.
WETZELL: When did you talk to him? Very recently? This trip?
GEORGE STONEY: Well, just - yeah, oh, yes.
WETZELL: Matter of days ago?
01:39:00GEORGE STONEY: Uh, we were filming him about, uh, two weeks ago.
WETZELL: So he worked more than 40 hours a week. [Wage, fee, wage, fee to
owner?] - paid less than 30 cents. For what? For hour - for one hour, is that what that meant?GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm, yeah.
WETZELL: Thirty cents per hour. My employer - due me extra compensation to the
present date. Uh, had worked him more than 40 hours - in other words, was the law that -GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.
WETZELL: - he couldn't work more than 40? Couldn't he pay him time and a
half, though?GEORGE STONEY: Ah -
WETZELL: Back in those days, was it -
GEORGE STONEY: At that time, you -
WETZELL: You were supposed to?
GEORGE STONEY: - that's right, you were supposed to.
WETZELL: Mm-hmm.
GEORGE STONEY: But the thing that surprised me was that he signed his name.
WETZELL: Oh.
GEORGE STONEY: And then we compared this handwriting with, uh, handwriting on a
group of letters in the same file, and they matched the - the handwriting of a, of a white man who was there.WETZELL: Aha.
01:40:00GEORGE STONEY: And then Bruce, uh, Graham was able to explain that this white
man had helped him.WETZELL: Mm-hmm.
GEORGE STONEY: He said he didn't get, uh, he didn't get his back pay, but
that the white man who kept - kept writing and kept writing finally did get some back pay -WETZELL: Mm-hmm.
GEORGE STONEY: - but then they eliminated his job.
WETZELL: Yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm.
GEORGE STONEY: And as you -
WETZELL: Well, I am surprised you don't find a lot more worse than this, though.
GEORGE STONEY: Oh, the - well, here's the -
WETZELL: I would think so.
GEORGE STONEY: - here's another thing that was interesting. This is a letter
from, uh, N.B. Thompson of East Gastonia. These people were working in the Loray Mills. And there's a complaint about -HELFAND: (overlapping dialogue; inaudible), I'm sorry.
GEORGE STONEY: Sorry?
HELFAND: Grove (overlapping dialogue; inaudible)
GEORGE STONEY: I'm sorry, thank you.
WETZELL: (overlapping dialogue; inaudible)
GEORGE STONEY: It was at Grove Thread -
HELFAND: Let me start again.
GEORGE STONEY: OK, thank you, thank you, Judy.
JAMIE STONEY: Hold on, give me one second there.
GEORGE STONEY: OK.
WETZELL: Yeah, that's where I worked, uh, when I first started.
HELFAND: Give me a second.
01:41:00WETZELL: It was with Groves Thread.
GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.
WETZELL: That Earl Groves, who's still a good friend of
mine, lives here in town.GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Uh, how old was he at the time?
WETZELL: Earl?
GEORGE STONEY: Uh-huh.
WETZELL: Now, his father started the mill. Earl, right after World War II, was
very young. Even just out of [Davidson Carr?] - 21, in, say, '44.GEORGE STONEY: Oh, yes, so then, he was -
WETZELL: He was young.
GEORGE STONEY: Yeah, yeah.
WETZELL: So back at this time, he was not even around. Not active at all. It
was his father.GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah.
WETZELL: But his father had a heart attack in the late '40s, and Earl had to
take over, the son, real young. That's when he hired me.GEORGE STONEY: Well, this is a letter of complaint, ah, you can - you can read
that, ah.WETZELL: Mm-hmm. "I have eight in the family, only my wife and one daughter
working, and they only get to work two, three days a week... two -" what is that, 2.30? To 4.50 to 3.50? What does that mean, is that dollars per hour? 01:42:00GEORGE STONEY: Uh, no, uh, days a week, I guess, so that's what they get, uh,
per week, I think.WETZELL: OK.
GEORGE STONEY: But now this, this is a complaint that - it's signed - you see,
here's another one.WETZELL: Lot of different people sign that.
GEORGE STONEY: Yeah.
WETZELL: Uh - "We the undersigned, textile workers, say that the textile mill
is not compliant with the National Recovery Act." And what did the National Recovery Act actually say?GEORGE STONEY: It required, uh, people to work no more than 40 hours.
WETZELL: No more than 40 hours, OK.
GEORGE STONEY: Uh, did away with child labor -
WETZELL: Right. What was the age, 18 or 16?
GEORGE STONEY: No, uh, uh, 14.
WETZELL: Fourteen?
GEORGE STONEY: Fourteen.
WETZELL: They could work -
GEORGE STONEY: They could work at 14.
WETZELL: Fourteen.
GEORGE STONEY: But they were limited, and, uh -
WETZELL: Oh, yeah, that's right.
GEORGE STONEY: - the machinery could only, uh, operate 80 hours a week. And,
uh, the most significant thing for us is a section called 7A, which said they had the right to form a union. 01:43:00WETZELL: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
GEORGE STONEY: Now, you notice here - you see, Mr. Moore -
WETZELL: Right here?
GEORGE STONEY: Yes.
WETZELL: Yeah. You think that's him? Did he say it was?
GEORGE STONEY: That's right. Yes, he recognized that, yes.
WETZELL: Yeah. And that [while?] he was working at Groves then, you know.
GEORGE STONEY: That's right.
WETZELL: Yeah.
GEORGE STONEY: So that's the - that's the tie-up there.
WETZELL: Yeah.
GEORGE STONEY: There are a hundred and -
WETZELL: He's [Robey?]. I guess that's the RW.
GEORGE STONEY: Yeah, uh-huh.
HELFAND: That's his father.
WETZELL: (overlapping dialogue; inaudible)
GEORGE STONEY: That was his father.
WETZELL: Father.
GEORGE STONEY: His father was -
WETZELL: Oh, OK.
GEORGE STONEY: - his father was head of the union, you see.
WETZELL: I see.
GEORGE STONEY: And he was a member.
WETZELL: Yeah.
GEORGE STONEY: So, uh, there were 108 of these people -
WETZELL: Mm-hmm.
GEORGE STONEY: - and we've gone over there. What we hope to do -
WETZELL: Fish was a, uh - one of the overseers' name was fish.
GEORGE STONEY: What we hope to do is to get these big shift pictures and circle
the people who signed, you see.WETZELL: Hmm. Hmm.
GEORGE STONEY: So that it gives the audience some feeling that these people were
real people.WETZELL: Yeah, yeah.
01:44:00HELFAND: Mr. Wetzell, you seem surprised that there was legislation that said
that they could organize into unions.WETZELL: Yes. I don't know that, uh, I ever thought there was any legislation
against it, I was just surprised that, uh, anybody wanted to unionize down here. We thought, you know, things were going along so great, (laughter) why would they want to unionize?GEORGE STONEY: (laughter)
WETZELL: You know, here's, uh, daddy here running the mills and looking after
you so good - I'm being facetious. Now I realize that was not true. But, uh, no, I'm sure I was aware that they, uh, legally they could organize themselves. We knew that was legally true. I don't think anybody ever questioned the illegality of it. It's just - why do it? What do you expect to gain by this?GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.
WETZELL: When you're treating you so nice -
GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.
01:45:00WETZELL: - by making your little girls work all day in the - hmm.
GEORGE STONEY: Yup, yup.
WETZELL: Now, I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth, now. I -
GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.
WETZELL: - I'm very disturbed about what went on back then. Obviously I was
too young to know the impact of it. I was just concerned more I reckon, with what was going to happen to me that day.GEORGE STONEY: (laughter) Yeah.
WETZELL: If I don't get that nickel for that ice cream cone. And I probably did.
GEORGE STONEY: Now, here's, uh, something -
WETZELL: Groves Thread, yes? (inaudible), 24 - what does that mean?
GEORGE STONEY: That was -
WETZELL: This this pay?
GEORGE STONEY: - the pay, yes. Now, one of the - one of the, uh -
WETZELL: For a week.
GEORGE STONEY: - yeah. One of the interesting things -
WETZELL: Two dollars and forty cents.
GEORGE STONEY: Yeah. One of the interesting things that we're finding in
these letters is that the workers, listening to Roosevelt and listening to Hugh Johnson, who ran the NRA on the radio, who appeal to them, "If things aren't working, you just write us." So thousands of people wrote letters. And in 01:46:00addition to saying that sometimes the manufacturers weren't living up to the agreement, they were protesting to Washington that they were getting short time, and many of them were convinced that Washington could do something about that.WETZELL: Mm-hmm.
GEORGE STONEY: And of course, you would know as a manufacturer that -
WETZELL: Right.
GEORGE STONEY: - you got short time because -
WETZELL: Oh, sure. We sure did. But I - when I went to work in the mills in
'45, you know, there was still - they weren't making 35, 40 cents an hour. And that was pitiful. So they finally raised the minimum wage to 40 cents and then maybe to 50, but -GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.
WETZELL: - it was still low.
GEORGE STONEY: Well, now -
WETZELL: And I've never worked any mill that was unionized.
GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.
WETZELL: Take it back - I went to Dan River Mills in Danville, and I only worked
about six years. They were unionized, and they had had a pretty bad strike just before I got there. Must have been the early '60s, maybe, or late '50s. 01:47:00Dan River, Danville. Well, this is interesting. And you got this from whom?GEORGE STONEY: The National Archives.
WETZELL: National Archives.
GEORGE STONEY: Uh, the WPA. And there are, as I say, just dozens - thousands of
letters stimulated -WETZELL: Have you seen the, uh - been out the library to see the videotapes of
local people that they have out there leaving the shifts on the mill - from the mill?GEORGE STONEY: I haven't, no.
WETZELL: You go ask for the, uh, I forget the photographer's name, now, but
the ones in the '30s, there were two of them. The one that - Mr. Kathy, Lewis Kathy, [took?] would not appeal to you so much, because his are just individuals right downtown. But this other guy, seemed that he would go out to the Loray 01:48:00Mill, or Firestone, as it was, and take pictures of them coming off of the shift -GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.
HELFAND: H. Lee Waters.
WETZELL: Waters, correct.
GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
WETZELL: Good memory.
GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm. Now those are -
WETZELL: That video is available at the library.
GEORGE STONEY: Now, those - those were in the - Waters started about 1938.
WETZELL: So you think that's too late to be of any interest to you.
GEORGE STONEY: It's probably too late for us.
WETZELL: You're right, you're right.
GEORGE STONEY: So - but it's -
HELFAND: But it could be useful.
GEORGE STONEY: It might be, though, yes.
WETZELL: Yeah, I just happened to think of that.
GEORGE STONEY: So -
JAMIE STONEY: Because he was, he was a freelancer for Fox as well.
GEORGE STONEY: I think he was, yeah.
JAMIE STONEY: He freelanced for the news rooms. Because I've seen the names.
WETZELL: Yes. He did.
GEORGE STONEY: I think -
WETZELL: He would come around here and then he would, uh, take those to the
theaters and they'd charge 10 cents to come see yourself in the movies, you know. (laughter) That's what he'd -GEORGE STONEY: I was, uh, during the 1940, '41, early '42, I worked for the
Farm Security Administration - that was part of the Department of Agriculture. Out of Montgomery, I was a press officer for the Southeast. So I did a lot of 01:49:00traveling in that area. And I used to run up against those guys in the small towns.WETZELL: Oh, sure, sure.
GEORGE STONEY: They'd come to town, they'd make a deal with the theatre
owner -WETZELL: Yeah.
GEORGE STONEY: Wouldn't charge him anything.
WETZELL: I don't know.
GEORGE STONEY: But - and then they'd make a deal with the merchants.
WETZELL: Oh, it was right. They got a lot of -
GEORGE STONEY: And got the - they got the merchants, uh, to, to, to put up some money.
WETZELL: - out of the merchants. How would they get their advertisements with
the merchants? I don't remember that.GEORGE STONEY: Well, they'd photograph their customers in front of the shop.
That's right.WETZELL: Front of the store or something, I guess that was it.
GEORGE STONEY: And sometimes - sometimes they did all kinds of silly tricks.
WETZELL: (laughter) Yeah.
GEORGE STONEY: I know one from Durham, North Carolina, for example, where they
had, uh, a Ford car - one, uh, one fellow drove up with it, and then people started coming out, and so they must have had 20 in the car -WETZELL: Oh, yes.
GEORGE STONEY: - and then it drove off and (laughter) that kind of thing.
WETZELL: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
GEORGE STONEY: And they'd put it - they'd have it developed, and they ran
silent, you see.WETZELL: Sure.
GEORGE STONEY: No cuts, no editing, nothing, just - just like that. Well,
here's some other letters from - from the, uh, I think these are all from, um -WETZELL: Let me show you something -
GEORGE STONEY: OK.
01:50:00WETZELL: - that ties right in with that era, the '30s. You know, you say,
"Well, what did people do for - to entertain themselves back in those grim days?" Well, we had an American Legion Junior Baseball team in 1935 that won the national championship. Beat everybody. Beat a team from California. And there's a picture of the team, taken right in front of this building, as a matter of fact -GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Oh, yeah.
WETZELL: - because this was the headquarters for the legion. Now, that was just
- oh, the folks supported that team. We followed them wherever they played. But they played the final two games right here in Gastonia up against Sacramento.GEORGE STONEY: You - you must have had big, uh, mill leagues too, didn't you?
WETZELL: Yes. We did.
GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.
WETZELL: Yeah, mills would furnish a lot of players. Yes. And then the first
football team, (laughter) that was 19, uh, what? - '10. Happened that my uncle Fred Wetzell was the first coach, so one reason I had that picture. But 01:51:00that's the house that I was born in, down on York Street in 1920 - it's been torn down since then. I wish I'd saved something out of that house -GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.
WETZELL: - but I didn't. Not a thing.
GEORGE STONEY: That's a (overlapping dialogue; inaudible).
WETZELL: That's just a parking lot now.
GEORGE STONEY: Uh-huh. Yeah.
WETZELL: The courthouse sits right back behind here -
GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.
WETZELL: - and it's just a big parking lot now.
GEORGE STONEY: I know how you feel, because the house where I was born in
Winston-Salem -WETZELL: Mm-hmm.
GEORGE STONEY: - it was torn down, and it's a parking lot.
WETZELL: Yeah. (laughter)
GEORGE STONEY: Yeah.
WETZELL: But I can remember sitting on that porch for - every time a circus
would come to town they'd have the parade down Main Street, and they had to go right down in front of our house.GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.
WETZELL: I could sit up there on the porch and wave to the clowns and all.
GEORGE STONEY: (laughter) Well, speaking of parades, let me show you a couple
of pictures, ask if you remember them.WETZELL: Well, you see, hundreds of parades around the walls here.
GEORGE STONEY: Yeah.
WETZELL: Got Eisenhower's first inaugural parade that we were in -
GEORGE STONEY: Where'd I put my briefcase?
01:52:00WETZELL: - is one of the -
[audio break]
WETZELL: - and over the 40 years we were in (inaudible) -
GEORGE STONEY: Mostly military, right?
WETZELL: Oh, yes. (laughter) Yeah, yes, yes.
GEORGE STONEY: So the military history here is pretty strong.
WETZELL: Yes, correct.
GEORGE STONEY: OK. Well, let you show me this -
WETZELL: Yeah, but our Drum and Bugle Corps, so - we marched, American Legion, mostly.
GEORGE STONEY: Well, here's a parade that -
WETZELL: Mm-hmm.
GEORGE STONEY: - ah, people have been surprised to see pictures of. This was a -
WETZELL: Mm-hmm.
GEORGE STONEY: - it was a big Labor Day celebration, ah, September the 3rd, 1934.
WETZELL: 'Thirty-four. OK. Yeah, (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) -
GEORGE STONEY: Just at the beginning of the, the big, uh -
WETZELL: (overlapping dialogue; inaudible)
GEORGE STONEY: - general strike.
WETZELL: Mm-hmm.
GEORGE STONEY: And here's another view of the same thing with the - the Ranlo local.
WETZELL: Yes.
GEORGE STONEY: Now, we have -
WETZELL: Hmm.
GEORGE STONEY: - we have motion pictures of this same parade.
WETZELL: Yes.
GEORGE STONEY: And Ernest Moore recognized his father -
WETZELL: Mm-hmm.
GEORGE STONEY: - in the - in our footage.
WETZELL: Being in there.
GEORGE STONEY: Yeah.
01:53:00HELFAND: What do you think of that parade?
WETZELL: Ah, it surprises me. Ah, I thought as a kid, which I was, what? In
'34 - I was born in '20 - I was 14 years old, that I would have known if anything exciting was happening downtown. Because I used to live two blocks down here.GEORGE STONEY: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
WETZELL: But maybe I was told not to go downtown today and not - didn't even
answer any questions. I don't know. I have no recollections of it at all, but I'm surprised I don't, because I lived two blocks from here, and - and, and I went downtown every day, when I wasn't in school.GEORGE STONEY: Now, here's the climax of that parade.
WETZELL: Mmm.
GEORGE STONEY: Down at, uh -
WETZELL: And where, where the courthouse, probably?
GEORGE STONEY: No, it's Municipal Park.
WETZELL: Oh, OK. Hmm.
GEORGE STONEY: And we were talking with a lady the other day who's, uh,
re-recognized her local number there.WETZELL: In Belmont.
GEORGE STONEY: Yeah.
01:54:00WETZELL: But my guess is, there was very little organizing done after all of
this hoopla.GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.
WETZELL: Am I right? Very little -
GEORGE STONEY: Well, uh, on the contrary -
WETZELL: Very few -
GEORGE STONEY: - on the contrary, the -
WETZELL: - became unionized.
GEORGE STONEY: - as you know, every mill was shut down.
WETZELL: Yes.
GEORGE STONEY: And then the guard came in and people went - the, the Roosevelt,
uh, after three weeks, Roosevelt said that if they'd go back to work, he'd make sure that, uh, they wouldn't get fired, there'd be no - nothing held against them.WETZELL: Yeah.
GEORGE STONEY: But that didn't happen. When they went back in, the officers
did get fired.WETZELL: [True?].
GEORGE STONEY: For example, Ernest Moore's father had to leave town.
WETZELL: Mm.
GEORGE STONEY: Had to go back to the mountains.
WETZELL: Yeah.
GEORGE STONEY: And the -
WETZELL: 'Cause he was one of these instigators, or organizers.
GEORGE STONEY: And, and, uh, Ernest, uh, was out of a job for six months, and
the secretary was out of the job for 11 months.WETZELL: Mm-hmm.
01:55:00GEORGE STONEY: But for two, three, four years later, the remnants of the union
kept writing to Washington, kept trying to get help -WETZELL: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
GEORGE STONEY: - for these people, so that it just didn't collapse.
WETZELL: Mm-hmm.
GEORGE STONEY: But, uh, it - it was very - it was very hard for the unions after
that time.WETZELL: Right, right. Well, I just - was not aware that we had a mill in
Gastonia that was unionized, after -GEORGE STONEY: Hmm.
WETZELL: - Firestone. Uh, for many, many years. Do you have a record of when
the next one was?GEORGE STONEY: Uh, as I say in, in, uh, '29, I mean, in '34 -
WETZELL: - 'Thirty-four?
GEORGE STONEY: - there were a number of mills. By '35, I don't think there
was one left.WETZELL: That actually - no, I don't think so.
GEORGE STONEY: No. Now, Ernest will tell you about his (inaudible).
WETZELL: OK.
GEORGE STONEY: They were - uh, he said that he -
WETZELL: Groves.
GEORGE STONEY: - Groves? Uh -
WETZELL: Mm-hmm.
GEORGE STONEY: - he told that the - he said about 80% of the people had signed
01:56:00cards, but when they went on strike only about 40% of them stuck [in?].WETZELL: Yeah. Yeah.
GEORGE STONEY: And, uh - but they were a- they were able to shut down almost
every mill, or the manufacturers shut down the mills.WETZELL: Mill, yes.
GEORGE STONEY: In anticipation.
WETZELL: Right. Yes. Yes.
