Charles M. Ward and St. Helen's Interviews.

Special Collections and Archives, Georgia State University Library
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 CHARLES M. WARD: (beep) Yeah, in my day, I don’t know whether it was -- [it’s way?] I guess it was. He came in there; he’d never worked anywhere. He came out of the mountains. And he might have worked at some little plant or something up there, but he came out of the mountains and came into, uh, Gastonia and got his job there. It was either Loray or Manville Jenkes, I’m not sure which one it was [name?], but I’ve heard the Manville Jenkes a part. And he went to work there and they -- they -- they’re the ones that gave him all his training and everything he had there. Um, they -- I don’t know if he started out -- probably as a sweeper or one of the, you know -- it had to be some kind of labor like that. And I know at one time, he was fixing the looms. And know 1:00he doffed the looms. He had fixed them; he had spinned them; he had everything in that spinning room. Now at that time, see, that room -- that mill is five stories high and when -- when my daddy -- uh, the fifth floor of that mill all the way across was spinning. The third floor, half of it was spinning. And he had taken that -- he was over those. And then he left when he -- right before he retired, um, they started sending these, college people and so forth take over. And of course, they were switching, uh, machineries. And my dad went into quality, uh, control, was supervisor of quality control.

GEORGE STONEY: How much education does he have?

WARD: My daddy didn’t have -- that’s -- that’s what I was, uh, [going at?], my dad didn’t have any education. My daddy had a third grade education. 2:00Uh, he had, uh, taught his-self to school. My daddy could write and read better than I can. Uh, how, I don’t know. Um, I know right up to 1957, which I’ll show you some of the papers, uh, he had always taken course year to [course there?] that we -- nobody didn’t know about. My mother didn’t know he was taking them courses. Um, I -- he was taking a correspondence course in, uh, language, reading, and stuff in -- in the ’50s. You know, this is after he done been through all this mill. My daddy’s, uh, 50-something years old and here he is still taking, uh, schooling. And uh, but as far as, uh, foremen going too to school, three years. Uh, that’s what he -- he told me. But I don’t know how he -- he learned to write. I’d never known him to misspell anything.

3:00

GEORGE STONEY: Now in some places, the mills, when they’ve got an ambitious perpon-- person like that, they send them to school.

WARD: All right, then, one time my dad did go off to school. They built the school, North Carolina Vocational School. It’s between here and Belmont, or -- no -- well, it’s on --

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah, yeah.

WARD: -- uh, Wilson Boulevard. Um, when that was first built, my daddy went down there -- they sent him for just a few weeks or something when they just opened up, uh, and some -- you know, I don’t know what they were teaching him but I know that they sent him there for, uh, in and out. They’s taking him back and forth. They took him back and forth. And uh, that happened, uh -- that was in the ’40s.

GEORGE STONEY: Sounds to me like they probably took him down there to show them how to teach.

4:00

WARD: Well in my -- I don’t know; I don’t -- they take -- I know they took my dad --

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah.

WARD: -- uh, down there then. I remember, uh, in 19, uh, ’44 or ’45 these, uh, generals and these, uh, people from ACRIN, Firestone people, came down and, uh, they -- it was a gentlemen, a colonel, and another -- couple of them. Anyway, then my daddy got an award there and he was showing them, um -- he had a -- had some spinning [rod?], [rope?] and that’s the cotton on the -- uh -- the [tube?] roller.

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah.

WARD: And then he had a -- uh -- where it comes out on the spinner and the bobbin. He’s showing them how. It went from this -- they laid up they call it, laying up the row and had somebody do that. That led up on his frames back then. I’ve seen him do it many times. They’d let up on the frame. And then that piece of cotton would come off, a little round piece of cotton about 5:00like this, and he’d go down through the spinning frame and then the tie in would tie in to the thread and then it’d curl down to the bottom, but travellers. I -- and he told me about putting travellers on those things and how -- and he’s showing them how -- how that worked when he got the award there.

GEORGE STONEY: Now, I wonder what he would think if, uh, he came back now and saw that, uh, Firestone was building a new plant and they had an Indian, East Indian manager, superintendent, and Japanese owners.

WARD: Uh, I think he would think -- I’m going to tell you the truth, I don’t know what he’d think so much about the Indian manager. He’d say if the man’s qualified, you know, that’s one thing. First of all, the man to be qualified at a mill should have been in the m-- he shouldn’t be -- got it out of a textbook. He should have went to the mill. Uh, Mr. [McCavin?] was at the 6:00mill. He went through the mill. He worked through the mill. Now there’s a man in Gastonia that I write today that you -- you might want to see. His name is -- oh, Haw-- Mr. Hoe -- Mr. Hoe -- It’s Hoe or Hall. I know he’s 90 years old. He came from Akron, Ohio in ’57, 1957, ’58, right in there. And he took over the mill. But he had worked in -- Mr. Hall, his name -- he had worked in the mill -- mills all his life.

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.

WARD: He came from Akron down. Now, he had been there in the mill and what -- he knows what mill people went through. Mr. McCavin, knew what mill people went through. He lived down in the mill hill with them. He went through what the mill people went through. He might have had just a little bit more money, but 7:00he’s seen what they had to do to -- with their -- that is the difference in the management today. Uh, they bring the management in from a textbook, he don’t know -- he wants to be the boss. He don’t know what the people are doing down here. He don’t have any idea how they’re doing that job and what it takes from them to do that job. He thinks he knows everything ’cause he got the book, but he don’t. He didn’t do that job. A doctor can’t tell me how I feel. How can he tell me how I feel when he hadn’t felt?

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.

WARD: That’s what I told my doctor. Don’t tell me how I feel, because you don’t know what I’m -- how sick I am.

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah. Judy.

HELFAND: How -- I wonder how your father would feel that there’s a union in Firestone.

WARD: That’s -- in fact, I don’t -- I don’t think my -- I think my dad would say this on the union, if management let down and didn’t do their job, there should be a union. I think he would definitely say that and he would say 8:00that there are no breaking the strike if it happened. But he would say that onl-- if -- if management broke down, because he was a -- he believed that you could do -- if management knew what went on, you could do it through negotiating. If management knew what the people were talking -- see, your management know -- in most of your businesses today, your management doesn’t have any idea what this worker down here is doing. You go to RD Reynolds, or RJ or what it is in Winston-Salem where you’re from, that woman that’s out there making cigarettes, let’s say, or rolling them or whatever you do in the plant, he’s never done that job. He don’t have any idea of what -- what her fingers feels like if he’s doing it -- if she’s doing [it right?]. And yet he come -- he studied in college how to manage a business, and he’s managing a 9:00business by the book, but he don’t know what they’re doing down there. That is the problem. If -- if -- if the, uh, companies knew what was going on with the workers, it would -- they wouldn’t have a lot of problems. But they don’t know what’s going on in their own plant. Now like I said, if he thought -- he wouldn’t care who that person that was running Firestone. He would -- he would say that’s -- it didn’t matter what race or anything that, as long as he knows his job. He’s been through it; he can talk -- he can identify with what the people that -- that make -- and you’re nothing without the people. It’s nobody with -- without the people. The president don’t get elected without the people.

GEORGE STONEY: Judy?

HELFAND: I think whatever else I have to ask really relates to the --

GEORGE STONEY: OK.

HELFAND: -- book, so we can just --

GEORGE STONEY: All right. Now, what we’d like to do now is to have you pull 10:00out those books, but uh, let’s see how we’re going to be doing this, Judy.

HELFAND: OK, I think we should take it --

WARD: It’s over there in my -- where it is, is my television. When we moved rooms, I -- I moved -- I moved in from another room into that one where I could have a little closer quarters --

GEORGE STONEY: So it’s in -- it’s your --

WARD: It’s in my room, but it’s at the foot of my bed --

GEORGE STONEY: OK --

WARD: -- under my television.

HELFAND: Let me ask --

GEORGE STONEY: Jamie, let’s look in there and see how we’re going to light it then.

WARD: Oh, you can go look and -- look under, you’ll see it. It’s uh -- it’s a wooden box.

GEORGE STONEY: OK. Jamie?

WARD: Now I’ll have to help somebody to get it.

GEORGE STONEY: Come here, Jamie. (break in audio) -- you were telling me about your -- your father and the Golden Rule club.

WARD: Yeah, um, OK, the Golden Rule -- like I said, it started in about -- we’ll know exactly in a minute whenever you tell me you’re ready.

GEORGE STONEY: OK, right. We’re ready.

WARD: Oh, we’re ready to start?

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah.

WARD: OK, the -- the Golden Rule Association, it started in ’36, ’37 -- I’m not exactly sure which date, but we’ll know in just a minute because I’m going to -- I’ll send -- I’ll go in the other room and get the minutes 11:00of those meetings that -- my dad had minutes of those meetings that were handwritten, uh, back then. So, Michael? Come here. I want you -- come here a minute, son. I want you to go get your great-granddaddy’s, uh, box under the -- look here, under the bed that -- under the television.

MICHAEL: Under the television.

WARD: Yeah, and bring it to me. Be careful. Uh, so anyway, I don’t know exactly what that date is, but it -- it shows how they -- the minutes of the meeting are -- are handwritten, yeah. And uh, they tell some of the -- who’s there. OK. Sit it right here. All right now. Get over on this side. We’re going to snatch my dad’s glasses. Now, that’s his -- that’s the first -- 12:00that’s the first glasses my dad ever -- ever had. So let’s get this [this started out?]. He kept some stuff of mine here. Uh, and that’s the reason he left this. I have some Korean money... That’s my heater for --

MICHAEL: What’s that?

WARD: That’s a pipe from Korea. Well, it’s supposed to be in here... Now I d-- he’s -- that’s my daddy’s -- I don’t think it’s down under there. We’ll look in a minute. I believe that’s his, uh... (shuffling papers) 13:00that’s [on his car?], [come on to?] school in some. Let me see; where is it? I’m trying to see what some of this stuff is. Well my --

GEORGE STONEY: This is the Employee’s Mutual Aid Association of Firestone Cotton Mills, Gastonia, North Carolina. Constitution of Employee’s Mutual Aid Association. This is it. This is the --

WARD: No, that’s a -- OK, that’s, uh, the first printing after that. That should be in -- look and see if you can find a date down there.

GEORGE STONEY: OK.

WARD: On that. That should be way up in ’40s, I believe.

GEORGE STONEY: Application, blank. No, this is a blank thing. A [carded?] 14:00Mutual Aid Association. And this is what they must have given out to each of the members, and it’s got all the constitution and everything in here --

WARD: No, let’s see --

GEORGE STONEY: But it doesn’t have a date.

WARD: Let me see this.

GEORGE STONEY: OK.

WARD: Uh, this -- what I’m saying though, this is a -- this association kept going for a long time. Now this, uh... this was, uh -- I hadn’t -- tell you the truth, I hadn’t looked, but I know this is, uh -- uh, this is the articles that developed from the Golden Rule. This is not the original --

GEORGE STONEY: OK, that’s --

WARD: -- Golden Rule.

GEORGE STONEY: That was a form --

WARD: This is a copy had had to get [Mr. Davis?]. I know Royal Lee Davis.

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah.

WARD: My daddy had meant to give that -- that one to him. But let’s go up to, uh, this. This is -- here, OK. Here we go.

GEORGE STONEY: OK.

WARD: Nineteen-thirty-six.

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah.

WARD: All right, just open that. It says general -- I hope that --

15:00

GEORGE STONEY: General election returns, yeah.

WARD: I don’t think you want the election returns.

GEORGE STONEY: OK, well let’s see what it is.

WARD: OK, let’s see what he’s got.

GEORGE STONEY: OK.

WARD: Going here. I believe he’s got some of them --

GEORGE STONEY: That’s the official ballot, Employees Mutual Association. So this is -- these are the --

WARD: That’s ’38 now.

GEORGE STONEY: That’s ’38, OK.

WARD: No, is that ’38 or ’36?

GEORGE STONEY: Let’s see. Uh, it doesn’t say.

WARD: OK.

GEORGE STONEY: But this is -- this is, uh -- oh, now here we go.

WARD: OK, now this is the --

GEORGE STONEY: Elected -- election returns from March the fourth, 19--

WARD: That’s ’36.

GEORGE STONEY: -- thirty-six. Carding. Uh, carding, uh, twisting, uh -- oh, these are the people for --

WARD: That’s uh -- that’s different people, the officers and the --

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah, uh-huh. Yeah.

WARD: And it tells what they -- what they were elected by. All right, let’s -- let’s go. Here’s the rules. Here’s the meetings.

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah. Uh-huh. OK.

16:00

WARD: Let’s go here to the meetings now. I believe that’s -- I don’t know what that is. That’s -- let’s see that.

GEORGE STONEY: It says, uh, a commendation.

WARD: That’s the 16th. All right, let’s see. That’s the one -- let’s go back here. That’s, uh, May 12th, ’45. Uh, that was the -- this is the one where the, uh -- the army and people came in and gave him a --

GEORGE STONEY: Oh, and gave him a commendation.

WARD: Uh, yeah. And OK, now here’s what -- here’s what you’re interested in, right?

GEORGE STONEY: OK, let’s see what --

WARD: These things here. Let’s get the one.

GEORGE STONEY: [Cool?]. But this -- this is the election. It shows that it was going in ’36. Uh, here we are. Uh --

WARD: No, I’ve got some --

GEORGE STONEY: Uh --

WARD: There’s something missing.

GEORGE STONEY: This is -- again, it’s election and here it’s for February the 26th, 1936. The different carding and who -- who ran for office, results of 17:00the primary elections, uh, the voting data.

WARD: Well there’s still something missing.

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah, mm-hmm. Employees eligible to vote and all of that.

WARD: OK.

GEORGE STONEY: Oh now, here is, uh, standard hours of work. We have agreed to pay 25% additional for all overtime work, beginning Monday morning, July the 26th, 1937. So this is almost like a contract, isn’t it?

WARD: Yeah, uh, but still, I’m missing something here. Uh, let me -- I want the handwritten notes of the... They’re not... OK...

18:00

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah, this isn’t -- this is a -- this is almost like a contract. It’s interesting.

WARD: Yeah, that is. But this is not...

GEORGE STONEY: It says, this has been posted on the bulletin board. The Golden Rule Association. This has been posted on the bulletin board. Standard hours of work.

WARD: OK, yeah. All right, let’s go back here now to some of these. I had some handwritten; I don’t know where they are right now, but let’s get to these. This was the ninth. My daddy was secretary treasurer then. This jut 19:00tells -- and Mr. Jenkins was there then. I remember Mr. Jenkins was the boss -- was the boss [at our?]. No, that’s not... Says the meeting in the general council was held in room two, men’s dormitory, Monday, March 16, 1936 at -- at 7:30. Present was Mr. Jenkins, and Warden, Austin, Howe, Taylor, and it tells all of them’s names. Uh, tells who was absent. Now this is all the members it was. Now this tells -- this will tell you who was there and who was the members of that. It says committee -- general committee meeting. This don’t say -- my other one says, handwritten, says the Golden Rule Association. I’ve 20:00got to find those. Um, this says, uh... [Lawrence Skinner?] of the committee and messengers Mr. [Castle Crap to?] and Spencer. Of the supervision, Mr. Davis, Auger, and West were absent. Now these were meetings of -- the can’t -- was after the Golden Rule would meet.

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.

WARD: These thing-- whatever you’ve got that out -- that might be --

GEORGE STONEY: Uh, these are meetings of the, um --

WARD: Does that hand say the meeting’s called to order.

GEORGE STONEY: A special meeting, May seventh, 1937, minutes of the Mutual Aid Association. Made it was called to order, etc. Ten a.m. And then here’s another one with --

WARD: Where’s that [reflex?] --

GEORGE STONEY: -- financial report for the quarter ending May the third, 1937. 21:00And you have the -- the deposits in the bank, uh, total was $226.41 and expense were 96--

WARD: Now -- let’s go back to the Mutual Aid Society. Now I can remember something that I didn’t -- didn’t remember. I told you there was another strike in there, right?

GEORGE STONEY: No -- I didn’t -- another strike?

WARD: I’m -- I’m thinking now. I might be wrong, so this would be --

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah.

WARD: All right I’m going to say it. Let’s go. April sixth, 1937, I’m going to start here at mutual aid.

GEORGE STONEY: OK.

WARD: Meeting was called to order, Monday, April fifth, 1937. Uh, assembly hall by the president. President was Mr. H.D. Whiton. Uh, Norton and Mr. Ward, John Davis, Taylor Bullard, Howe, Jenkins, Austin, Hall. Roy Davis and Jones of the committee. Mr. [Gissel and Crabtee?] and Spencer are [supervised by the?] old 22:00business a savings plan that were now saving deductions for employee’s being made weekly. Because of this, Mr. [Keys?] was stated that the management did not believe in advisement to inaugurate a savings plan. That means a wage deductions. Officials of the t-- local banks state that the banks cannot accept deposits by sending, uh, receiving [tellers’?] to the mill, because that would constitute a violation of the banking laws. If any employee so desires, the company will accept savings deposit at the main office, and so. It says person named Mr. Spencer stated that Mr. Nix was planning to go a farm. However, if she does not go to live in farm, Mr. Spence said that he would give Miss Nix employment. Uh, a card room personnel Mr. [Piper?] said that James Field had requested him to -- to find out why Mr. Fields could not obtain employment at the Mill. Mr. Spencer stated that prior to her marriage, Miss Fields worked as a spinner for the Mansfield Jenkins Company, which was Firestone, some time ago. 23:00She tried after a lapse of about two years to spin. Mr. [Airmans?], which was spinning supervisor then, room and supervisor, reported that Mr. Spencer -- to Mr. Spencer that Miss Fields could not run a spinning job and after a few days, Miss Fields was laid off. Mr. Ward said he believed an overseer should tell a hand who was to be laid off the reason for the layoff. Mr. [Kingston?] said he would see to that if this was done in the future. Uh, now I’m going to go all on. I’m going to skip. It says --

GEORGE STONEY: So this is working almost exactly like --

WARD: Like a union.

GEORGE STONEY: -- like a union, sure.

WARD: And so it says, [here oh?] of a committee vacation -- vacancies. Committee vacancies. Now what -- here’s what it says, Mr. Ward was [that?] -- I remember, I said -- well it is page two. Now page three says -- uh, which I -- the reason I said what it says -- committee vacancies. Mr. Newton and Joe 24:00Davis have left the employ of the company. Mr. Ward stated that Mr. [Ort?] -- Morton and James Bates are eligible to fill the vacancies. OK. Mr. Morton was present and the secretary. Mr. Roy Davis was instructed to, uh, ins-- inform the Bates to attend the next meeting. Now, uh, what I -- only thing I’m saying is, these meetings -- this is after it was drawn up. What I’m trying to find is where we got to get to these meetings.

GEORGE STONEY: Uh-huh.

WARD: These is the meetings -- this is the name -- this is not what -- the original name was the Golden Rule Association. Uh, we got to that, uh, name when the -- when the meetings -- the meetings I had them in... uh, little 25:00folders, uh... that would tell the names... that are supposed to tell the names of those meetings and where they were held... See, this is ’37... That’s election -- I don’t know what election committee did. I guess they’re the 26:00ones -- the committee elected -- what, the committee elected the people?

GEORGE STONEY: Yes, I guess that was it.

WARD: What are these?

GEORGE STONEY: Uh, these are reports of the meetings, minutes of the meetings.

WARD: OK, now that’s some of the -- some of the things that I’m talking about there.

GEORGE STONEY: Yes, mm-hmm.

WARD: I’ve had -- I thought I got these -- look -- like I said, I only looked at them once.

GEORGE STONEY: Got you. Mr. W.B. Ward -- uh, Wards --

WARD: That’s my daddy. That’s Willy Ward.

GEORGE STONEY: Uh-huh. Uh... it’s interesting here. This meeting was called by the president in order that members of the committee might decide what to do 27:00about the matter which has been, uh -- aroused by the management -- by the management due to the Wagner Act. The Wagner Labor Act. All the members of the committee signed the paper. A Mr. [McCessik, is it?]?

WARD: McKelvick.

GEORGE STONEY: McKelvick, who was he?

WARD: He was superintendent of the mill.

GEORGE STONEY: Uh, has a -- had and agreed not to affiliate themselves with the company under the name of the Firestone Mutual Aid and not to hold any meetings on the premises.

WARD: Yeah, that was agreed to with Akron the way I understood.

GEORGE STONEY: OK, now --

WARD: Now that was agreed -- see, Akron was thinking it was going into a union. And, uh, McKelvick knew it wasn’t.

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.

WARD: According to my mother now.

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.

WARD: And my daddy knew it wasn’t.

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.

28:00

HELFAND: Excuse me. Could you start that sentence again? I just had a --

GEORGE STONEY: OK --

WARD: OK, uh --

GEORGE STONEY: Well let me start this again. I’m reading from the minutes of May the seventh, 1937. It says, this meeting was called by the president -- that’s your father --

WARD: It looks like my daddy’s handwriting now that -- what we’re talking about I think there.

GEORGE STONEY: OK. -- in order that the matter of the committees might -- the members of the committee might decide what to do about the matter which had been aroused by the management due to the Wagner Labor A-- Bill. All members of the committee signed the pave-- the paper that Mr. McCessick?

WARD: [McKelvey?].

GEORGE STONEY: McKelvey, who was he?

WARD: He was overseer of the mi-- mi-- mill.

GEORGE STONEY: OK -- uh, had and agreed not to affiliate themselves with the company under the name of the Firestone Mutual Aid and not to hold any meetings 29:00on the premises. I think this is because according to the Wagner Act, you weren’t supposed to have a company union.

WARD: That’s right. You’re not -- I think the Wi-- Wagner Act -- now I’m not sure; I think it [states?] that the company can’t interfere with union things and the union can’t interfere with company things. It’s some way -- that’s what the Wagner Act has to do with it.

GEORGE STONEY: That’s right.

WARD: Uh, so I think that was to go to McKelvey and, uh, tell him -- I think -- or McKelvey told -- had told him or something.

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm. So Mr. Ward led the discussion as to what -- just what steps, eh, to take towards keeping the organization going. And he told, um, uh 30:00-- and told what it it had accomplished. So that means that your father was trying to keep the organization going --

WARD: That’s right. He was keeping that organization.

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah.

WARD: That’s right -- I think that’s how it got -- it kept into, uh -- to the, uh, Golden Rule, or -- or what have you. I had even... some of these notes where they paid out monies to certain people, you know, for health.

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.

WARD: They had let them have, uh, monies for health. Now I don’t know --

GEORGE STONEY: I think that some -- some accounts there.

WARD: Uh, this is May the third. This is a financial of ’37. Uh --

GEORGE STONEY: OK.

WARD: A hundred and thirty-three sixty-one in the bank, um, they get -- it made 31:00$17 dollars at the square dance. And it made 21, 25, and then 27.50. It had a variety show that made $26. Their expenses were tickets for it, was two dollars. Membership cards at $26, to Lofton [Freighting?] Company, they paid this as pay outs and the first quarter, that cost them 18.50, second one 17, so forth. They spent 96 and they had total -- end of April, they had $129.66. Uh, these are some of these financial records back then. Uh, he had a financial report from May the third to June the second. It said the County Citizen National Bank had 129.66 and amount paid to Major Dolly was $50. Now Major Dolly, uh, that’s where that thing should -- Major Dolly is a lawyer -- was a 32:00lawyer in [charge?] in Gastonia. And Major Dolly would be the one that drew up, uh, the little booklet.

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm, I see.

WARD: Is what he’s saying.

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah, mm-hmm.

WARD: So that would be Major Dolly’s, because that’s the only legal expense they could have was drawing up -- uh, that do-- this is a -- amount paid to Mr. Ward to pay boys for use of gas in their cans when [camera’s in?] and to pay for receipt books was six dollars, totaling the bank of 76-- $73.66.

GEORGE STONEY: Well it seems to me that it’s pretty clear this was an association --

WARD: This was an association --

GEORGE STONEY: -- that the -- grew out of a kind of goodwill thing.

33:00

WARD: It grew out of a -- the way I understood it, in order to keep a union, uh, from coming back in, this association grew and my mother and -- which I told her, and I told her again today, which I kind of -- she says, “Your daddy was a first one to call the meeting and start it.” Uh... and I had some meetings of that. But, uh, she says -- said that she told me that Mr. McKelvey --

GEORGE STONEY: The superintendent.

WARD: -- the superintendent of the whole mill. Now, he was a friend of our family’s. Uh, my daddy was a real respected man in the mill. And she’s told me -- my daddy didn’t tell me that -- she told me that Mr. McKelvey had 34:00my daddy -- now he was -- he was manager -- that he had my daddy to call that first meeting and call these people together that had influence in the mill, workers, to call them in there and they started the Golden Rule Association. She said she -- it was not at the clubhouses, that she gave them their, uh, iced tea and coffee there at the house. And they met in my house on Liberty Street, 216 South Liberty Street. And she said that, uh -- uh, they started the Golden Rule and said Mr. McKelvey wasn’t there, but he had asked my daddy to do that to help get things for the workers, but it also would keep the union at bay. 35:00Said McKelvey said if we could put together a team that could get along with management and bring your grievances in, we can take care of -- and she told me everything that my dad took to McKelvey. McKelvey didn’t give him the answer right that minute. He’d say, I’d give you the answer, Willy, in the next day or two. And said he would and he would contact Akron and get an OK.

GEORGE STONEY: That’s very helpful.

WARD: Now that’s what they said happened in this. I didn’t believe it because that sounded to me like maybe management used my dad. I don’t -- I don’t really believe that. Uh, because I don’t think he could -- he could be -- if he hadn’t had thought he was helping, he would have never been -- 36:00I’m not saying that he thought up the Golden Rule, what I’m saying, I knowed it had to be other people, you know, involved in it. But what I’m saying is I don’t think that management -- I know there was no monies or anything, uh, paid for. I do know that my daddy had respect at the plant. I know that, uh, my family was always, uh, taken care of at the mill, but not with monies or monetary --

GEORGE STONEY: Now back to the -- to the Hundred Club.

WARD: OK.

GEORGE STONEY: Uh, what do you know about that Hundred Club?

WARD: I don’t know other than -- know anything other than what my daddy and my mother mentioned to me. And they told me about -- they were at a tent meeting. They were at a tent meeting -- a gospel, Christian tent meeting, told me where it was and, uh, they were there and somebody come in the tent meeting, which was 37:00-- and told them that chief of police had been shot. And she said, well that’s right at our house, see? Told where it happened, at Firestone. She said, well that’s all going on at our house and said they went home. And they told me that the Hundred Club was on the -- uh -- management in the Hundred Club was over in the mill. And the chief of police was trying to protect the management. In other words, as security. Uh, way I understand it, the security was out there.

GEORGE STONEY: Do you know how they were armed?

WARD: Guns. Uh, they had guns because they couldn’t have -- couldn’t have shot each other.

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah.

WARD: See, the police shot -- the -- the -- they called them strikers, but they -- the strikers, so if you call them a bunch of strikers, but the communists and strikers came into the mill. Well that was -- see I lived -- well I didn’t 38:00live there then but in front of the mill there, that’s where the gates is one and -- one in there -- one – just at each end into the mill there. So they came in to go into the plant. Now, let me go back. I don’t think the gate was even there then. But they came to go into them two entrances -- just two entrances on Second Street it was then. Uh, so they came to go in there. Now I’m under the impression it was one of the mill here where the park is. And ’cause she said she -- uh, when they got home there’s still the gravels -- everybody was out there and that’s where they were, at the park. Now that told me that, uh, apparently they came down from Firestone Boulevard, from Franklin Avenue, and tried to go into the plant.

GEORGE STONEY: It wasn’t called Firestone at that time.

WARD: No, it was Loray.

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah.

WARD: Loray Mill and, uh, Loray Cotton. They tried to go in Loray and, uh -- 39:00and they tried to win Loray. The guard -- the Hundred Club was there protecting and the management and the police department.

GEORGE STONEY: Now, do you have any pictures of your father and those hundred men?

WARD: Huh-uh. No, my father wasn’t there.

GEORGE STONEY: I see.

WARD: He wasn’t in the Hundred Club. Uh, my father was -- was not a physical, uh, man. He -- he wasn’t a -- if a man said, don’t cross the picket line, he wouldn’t have crossed it. Uh, but he was in support of the Hundred Club and the chief of police. Uh, and I think he went to the chief’s funeral. And he told me and my mother told me also that the way they -- or, they way they know of it, that the truckloads -- they come in trucks -- come up and fired 40:00shots over into the mill side, to the Hundred Club and the, uh, police. Said he was in a car, that police chief was. And so they shot him. The officers and some of the people fired back. And they killed the Wiggins -- uh, woman was killed. She was sent in with the strikers, see. She was from Bessemer City. She was a woman with, uh -- I don’t, he said four, five children or something like that. Uh, but she was from Bessemer City. She wasn’t from Gastonia. And uh, so I don’t know where -- there was a Wiggins family in Gastonia; I remember the Wiggins working there in the mill. But I don’t remember any Wiggins from Bessemer City, uh, coming in there and doing it. But now that’s 41:00all I can tell you about the Hundred Club. My momma, uh, could -- might could tell you who was in the Hundred Club, somebody. I’ll ask her this weekend if you want to call me back, I’ll --

GEORGE STONEY: OK, good.

WARD: -- I’d be glad to tell you if she can tell me anybody that was in the Hundred Club. And I’m sure that, uh -- that most of the, uh, men that’s in these things, uh -- I’m still missing some paper where they approve the minutes and, uh, the meetings.

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.

WARD: And I put them somewhere and I thought I put them right back here, but I had them out when I -- the only time I talked to them -- when I talked to her, I don’t know where I put them.

GEORGE STONEY: OK. Well I think we got -- we’ve got [20 miles?] the story. Yeah?

HELFAND: You know, you used some words that are pretty -- that people have been using with us again and again and again. You said, uh, went outside agitators 42:00came in, there was problems.

WARD: Yeah, that’s what -- that’s what -- that’s what I just got through and I didn’t use it in that terms. I said when the outsiders came in, they caused problems, just like they did with the -- the strike. Anytime you got an outsider comes into something and does something, you’ve got a problem. Uh, if he comes in and uh, the communists wanted in that plan. And uh, I don’t know why they picked on these, uh, textile workers union. They were making a -- uh -- the Communist Party back then, as far as history that I can tell, was making a bid then to become a party in this country. And uh, I imagine they thought by getting through these people they could say, well here’s people that’s not as educated as us. And I mean, this is my thoughts. Here’re 43:00people that’s not as educated as other. We can go through them and show them what government and management and capitalism is doing to them. We can get a stronghold in this country. And I think, uh -- I don’t know where this had worked before. I don’t have any idea where it had been before. I don’t even know that it’s the communists that -- I’m going with what I’m told, what the papers said. Uh, they -- they said it was a communist-led textile workers union, outsider agitators that came in and did this.

GEORGE STONEY: One of the things that I as a fellow Southern never understood is why, if it’s outside labor people, they’re bad. If it’s outside capital, it’s good.

WARD: That’s right.

GEORGE STONEY: (laughs) Why is that?

44:00

WARD: I don’t understand it either, but uh -- I don’t understand it. The only thing I don’t understand -- now I di-- I didn’t -- like I told you a while ago, uh, labor is good. Labor unions is good. I believe in them; I belong to them. Uh, so I’ve got -- I organized the, uh, first office teamsters union. See? So I’m not telling you -- or I helped to organize it myself or Associated Transport. I don’t know what you remember, Associate Transport. Uh, we’re running through the garment districts of New York a lot. But what I’m saying is, uh, labor unions are not all bad now. There is a lot of bad. There’s been a lot of, uh, crooks, mafia and stuff in it. But -- and back then, we did -- I really think they needed, uh, unions. But if this is what they said a communist union -- labor union wasn’t bad, but the communist 45:00part was bad if he was in here to get a stronghold on people that he thought that he could, uh, outmaneuver and take over and become members of the Communist Party. That’s what -- I’m under the impression that that strike was all about, uh, a communist getting into the minds of people that they thought they could get to, working people that wasn’t as educated as others.

GEORGE STONEY: Now, but ’34 was very different kind of thing.

WARD: That was a complete walk out. All of -- that was a shut out.

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.

WARD: The way I understand that. And I believe management had something to do with -- with -- management closed the plants. If we -- if you remember -- I don’t remember that much about it.

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.

46:00

WARD: Uh, but I was just a couple years old. But what I’m saying, I think management closed the door, shut out. All right, well some people-- management didn’t shut down. And so that’s where my daddy went to Kannapolis because Kannapolis didn’t shut it down. Dan River didn’t shut out, but this was a nationwide, uh, thing. It was nothing wrong with the, uh -- uh, labor union, if they -- if that was labor union that called that strike. I don’t even know how that strike was called. Uh, but what I’m saying is, uh, my daddy didn’t, uh --uh, he didn’t ever say nothing to me about much that. Only thing now -- they said -- he told me about the Golden Rule Association. They formed -- they still had no union. They had no insurance. They had nothing. So they had problems.

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.

47:00

WARD: So he was -- all he was doing -- all those people that’s on these minutes of the meeting, uh, president [and had?] a little bit of money that he’s raising there, that was going to help get benefits within the mill for their people in the mill.

GEORGE STONEY: Now, they -- the money, I know it mattered -- it was a lot more valuable then than it is now. At the same time, uh --

HELFAND: George, keep talking, it’s OK.

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah, OK. I know the money back then was a lot more valuable than it is now so that you say -- you see $230 and it doesn’t seem like much. It was a lot more then.

WARD: That’s right.

GEORGE STONEY: Even so, this was one of the biggest mills in the South and you’re talking about an association that seems to have had so little -- so few 48:00members, or it really wasn’t covering anything like the -- all the Loray employees.

WARD: Well, no. That’s where everybody’s got the wrong idea about Loray Cotton Mill. Um, the Golden Rule was Firestone.

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.

WARD: Uh, you had spoken -- spokesman. Women back in those -- I’m going to tell-- this is the truth; women didn’t say much in politics. Women didn’t say much in their jobs. Women worked. You don’t see any m-- women’s names in those meetings. So you got over half the women there working at Firestone, but you don’t see any women’s names there. Women took care of the work, their paycheck, their husband’s paycheck, and the kids and the house. They didn’t attend these meetings. Now, you said so few. I could name you, uh, 25 49:00people -- I could go that went down the [block?] as a kid that tell you they had nothing to do with that, but they believed that my daddy would get something, uh that would benefit them. If he says, OK, let’s, uh, do this, they would say OK. If my daddy said, well let’s vote union, Firestone knows how many people would have went union. If uh, Roy Davis had have said, uh, let’s go union, had about 10 of those men -- just 10 of them that you’re talking about in that association. And we’re talking about about 2,000 people I think in the mill about that time, 16, 17, 100, something were in there. Uh, if you get 10 men in 50:00there that are truly respected people in that plant. And you -- I don’t know whether -- you know, respect that the cotton mill had back then for -- for the people, each other had respect for each other. Now if you had 10 of those men in there that told the workers to go vote for the union, them workers would have marked their ballot today. They would have been a unanimous vote almost in that cotton mill. There’s just 10 of them. See that’s what I’m saying. You don’t know the power of a cotton mill village. Why do you think they, uh -- the hundred people fought these other strikers and the others sat on the side? These strikers said they were going to blow up their plant. The ones that said they were communists that they were going to blow up this plant. That’s what they were charged with. If I remember correctly, they were charged with 51:00planning to blow up the mill. They were going to blow it up. So -- in self-defense, they killed that woman. And if I got to protect my family over here and feed them, I’m going to blow her up. And I’m not going to hide to do it. And if -- if I had as much respect and pull as -- as maybe 10 of those men had, and I thought I couldn’t get it from the union, from the management, I’d tell my un-- my association, OK, let’s go to the union. Let’s call the union in. OK there, let’s -- let’s say, well, that has happened. It happened, uh, numerous times after that. Uh, I believe that was a CI -- a... C...

52:00

GEORGE STONEY: CIO.

WARD: CIO come -- come -- and different place. I remember every so often they tried to organize. Organizers were standing out there in front of my house passing out bills. They tried -- they couldn’t get it to first base. All during that time because these same people told them to -- not because the mill -- and had they not insurance, had they not had these plants, had they not had wages, had they not had housing, they didn’t have -- you go to another mill -- mill in Gastonia back then; they lived in slums. Their mill people -- we call it slums. You should have seen some of their house that they lived in. Now, they didn’t want no union because they had those things. I don’t believe there was -- uh, textile plant there could have ever had help and stuff like that before Firestone there. And I don’t think it’s any treated them like 53:00Firestone did. Now, when did -- when did -- why did Firestone go all those years to 1988 before they elected the union? Not any of them old people there now. It took them till 1988 to get a union in. I mean, if that doesn’t answer the question, I don’t know what -- what else will.

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah.

WARD: Because it was trust that you knew these people would get what you needed. And they did. They went and got -- like I said, my daddy, my mother retired there with pensions, with health insurance, and with these things. They’ve got them now; they comes in; it pays my mother’s bills. It was no union. She 54:00retired in -- well, she’s 62 and so she --

GEORGE STONEY: That --

WARD: -- she wasn’t around no union.

GEORGE STONEY: That’s very helpful. Uh, Judy?

HELFAND: Uh, I think -- I think we have it. I may just want to show him these letters.

GEORGE STONEY: I would -- you see, that was before his time I think.

HELFAND: Yeah, this is around the same time that they organized their Golden Rule Association.

GEORGE STONEY: Oh, ’35?

HELFAND: Uh-huh. July, ’35.

GEORGE STONEY: OK. This is a letter from -- these -- we have -- you see, there were just a lot of, uh -- of letters to Washington, uh, between ’33 and ’35.

WARD: Thirty-five, yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: Uh, President Roosevelt got on the air and he said, we’re going to do these things and if things are not right in your community, you just write 55:00us a letter. So this is from July the 19th, 1935. “Honorable Franklin D. Roosevelt, President, USA. Dear sir, I’m writing to you as I do -- as I do not know anywhere else to appeal to. I’ve been ordered to move out of the house at the Loray Plant now. Uh -- uh, now, awarded by Firestone and for no other reason, only I was a member of the United Textile of America. I was out while the mills were on strike. The mills are starting up and are hiring help from everywhere else. And there are about 100 families they are ordering to move. We have no work to pay -- we have no work to pay rent with and cannot get houses to move into, even if we could pay rent. I’m an ex-solider, was in the 56:00firing line in France for 12 months and have an excellent discharge. My health is not as good as it used to be. Will appreciate anything you can do to help me, to keep myself and family from being thrown out on the street. Yours truly, S.C. Hardy.”

WARD: Well, I knew a Hardy family there. And I remember when -- and I don’t believe it was ’35, I think he didn’t leave until later on after that. Uh, and I can tell you where they lived just about. I think he lived up on the top end of Liberty Street, or (inaudible), I’m not sure. But anyway --

GEORGE STONEY: What was the trouble here?

57:00

WARD: I don’t know. You see, this was a closed down, nationwide, ’34 was.

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm. But this was after that. You see, this is July --

WARD: That’s right

GEORGE STONEY: -- the 19th, 1935.

WARD: All right --

GEORGE STONEY: And this is when they’ve -- they -- Loray had been closed down --

WARD: Loray had been closed --

GEORGE STONEY: And Firestone was coming in --

WARD: Firestone bought it, OK. Firestone bought it. Firestone cut back. Let’s -- let’s face it, they cut down everyb-- they closed down for a while, everything, when they took -- when they took over.

GEORGE STONEY: That’s right, yeah. That’s right.

WARD: Uh, now I -- I do know that. Now that’s when my daddy went, you see?

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah.

WARD: OK, they started calling people back.

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.

WARD: My moth-- my daddy’s sisters worked there. They didn’t get called back; my mother got called back before them, because they weren’t going to call everybody back. They were reorganizing the plant.

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.

WARD: They were going to cut. They said that they couldn’t operate under 58:00Loray’s thing. Now the -- you remember now, the whole plant had been closed. Uh, so when they start up, there was a startup call. They called it a startup call. Certain people -- my daddy wasn’t on the startup call; he was in Kannapolis.

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.

WARD: My mother was on the startup call. Um, my daddy -- no wait a minute, my daddy was on the startup before the startup call, because my dad was there because it was a -- the startup call didn’t come till -- I believe it -- uh, they -- from what they told me, it should have been between, uh, April and June. April and July and what he’s saying now, isn’t July?

GEORGE STONEY: July the 19th.

WARD: OK. I think that the startup call, uh, started, uh, back in April when Firestone opened the door, that’s when the deal was finally made. They opened the doors, only it was just a few people that came back. My mother called back. 59:00My aunt -- two aunts, an uncle, were not called back then. They had to wait till the mill got to going. Now it might have been one in the family and one not one called. It would have been made -- provisions had been made for. But if a family was not called back and they said they were going to lose -- jobs were going to be lost, I think what myself -- I think what it’d done, they’d said with so many jobs then spending is lost. Or so many jobs in the weaving is lost. So many jobs in twisting and so forth. OK, you -- they took those overseers and they told them, which one of your employees -- it was no -- they didn’t go all together with seniority back then, because there was no seniority because the [met?] was new.

60:00

GEORGE STONEY: So the overseers then would select the people to be brought back?

WARD: They told which ones --

GEORGE STONEY: I see.

WARD: -- that -- we’ve got to have -- so -- he’s -- if Firestone said you can’t bring but so many workers, if I’m going to open up a plant and I say I don’t want but 20 workers here, you can’t make me take 30.

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm. But -- and then the overseers would make the selection.

WARD: I’m sure the overseers made the selection of the men. And uh, they called uh -- a -- they -- uh -- they called the workers back as he -- as Firestone said, start so many jobs. If we’re going to start 10 spinning jobs, the overseer was told to bring 10 spinners.

GEORGE STONEY: Do you think that it’s possible that -- that --

WARD: That had nothing to do with it.

GEORGE STONEY: You think that the --

WARD: I -- I think that Mr. Hardy, the Hardy’s I knew there, that one boy, I can remember I was a teenager, a bum, um, riding a motorcycle. Uh -- uh -- it 61:00-- and that was -- I mean, I’m just saying what I thought. Uh, but I don’t think that had anything to do with it, what Mr. Hardy wrote there. Uh, he -- he felt like that. I mean, I -- and I’m going to respect his pain, but I don’t, uh -- I don’t believe that. And I don’t believe that, uh, unless that overseer just knowed him personally that he would say, this man ’cause I was on strike. He wasn’t on strike.

GEORGE STONEY: Sure.

WARD: He was on layoff.

GEORGE STONEY: That’s right, yeah.

WARD: And he couldn’t have been on strike. He was on a layoff.

GEORGE STONEY: Now there were -- there were a lot of letters like this because there were -- they -- they were cutting down a lot on -- on the people in the houses.

62:00

WARD: It -- yeah, they had to cut the housing. They had -- we had, uh -- I know there’s people that didn’t have housing, waiting on housing. And I know that they’re -- they had to wait when they’d opened the job. And I’m -- they opened different departments that these people didn’t have. And so they had to have the housing. Like I say, when -- when they sold the house a few years later, uh, my daddy didn’t get the house. He won’t -- because somebody else -- and somebody else took it. He said no, but it was other people waiting on the list, so they got first. They put -- when they put the house out, they put a list of the houses that went out [a time?], and they said, this many houses on sale. You put which one you want. And they had a first, second, and third -- well if the first man didn’t take it, the second got the chance. See, that’s the way that moved up.

GEORGE STONEY: I see.

63:00

WARD: And uh, so I don’t think that that had -- I don’t think he had a good leg there on that particular case because, uh, the whole plant was changed over. If you remember -- uh, [elmer my?] -- my daddy’s watch, I believe I was talking about today is -- you’ll get my daddy’s watch and --

GEORGE STONEY: We’d like to see that.

WARD: -- and bring that. I want to sh--

GEORGE STONEY: All right.

WARD: It’s one date I want to be sure on and, uh... but I -- I do -- I -- now, I don’t doubt that many some of them owners -- I do know this, it was said of my daddy at Firestone when he retired, they’ve never seen a man that -- that took care of each and every employee without showing any reason to be impartial to one and the other.

GEORGE STONEY: Now that’s a hard thing to do.

WARD: And uh, they -- the people got up in that, uh, place and told that, uh, workers and -- and everybody else told those, uh, things. And I know -- 64:00that’s what I said, I don’t -- I don’t know if it’s true. I don’t know what -- if some -- if some people did those things, uh, I don’t know. My uncle -- I had an uncle that was head of the cloth room and, uh, weaving room there too at the same time my daddy was there. And now, let me go -- you talking about one p-- Uncle Russell, for instance. He was an overseer there long before my dad. And uh, Uncle Russell run the weaving room, the uh, cloth room. His children were working there for him. Now, Uncle Russell never attended a meeting. He never was involved in one thing with that mill. I never even heard him speak of [other than?] anything, come home and want to cook a meal. Uh, I’ve never seen him -- uh, he didn’t go to no meetings. Uh, he 65:00-- they said he’d run his job strict as a devil in the mill. He didn’t associate with nobody. He attended nothing. He contributed nothing to the -- to the se-- the union within the company, within Firestone.

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.

WARD: No contributions whatsoever. Nobody said anything other than -- I never heard any real -- never heard any bad things about him; never heard anything real good about him.

GEORGE STONEY: (laughs) Yeah.

WARD: So you see that, uh -- that’s what I’m saying. He couldn’t influence nobody to do nothing. This is my daddy’s watch, uh, Firestone, uh -- that’s the box it came in. And I kept the box and I’m glad I did because just this year when my wife picked it up from the jewelers, it was sent off, they said if I had the box, uh, with it, the watch was worth, uh, a lot more 66:00money. But I had both box. That’s the case it -- it came in. And uh, that is -- that’s a -- that is a Lord Elgin; it’s made -- that -- that company is no longer an American company. That’s a Japanese company. Um, now, it was made in -- uh, I believe it was Massachusetts. Uh, the company was taken over by Jap-- Japanese and they don’t make mechanical watches, you know?

GEORGE STONEY: Can I take it out?

WARD: Yeah, take it out. And, uh -- uh, it’s -- it’s wound. I keep it wound. And uh, it’s, uh -- uh -- [that one’s?] the original, I believe this one might be down there. But, uh --

GEORGE STONEY: Can you read the inscription?

WARD: Oh yeah, the inscription’s in here.

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.

WARD: You --

GEORGE STONEY: What is that? Read it.

WARD: OK, the -- I had -- uh, let’s see. Uh, then you tell us -- that’s not a -- that’s not a [serial?], that’s a good watch.

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah, that’s right.

WARD: And that’s [free and I was tenured?], I can tell you what this watch is. It says WT Ward -- WB Ward, um... it’s got some little writing on it; I 67:00can’t see what it says. 20 years, service Firestone Textiles, April 23rd, 1955. Now, that means -- I can tell you what that means. Uh, in 1955, that means Firestone completed that deal April the 23rd -- or --

GEORGE STONEY: Thirty-five, that’s right?

WARD: Of ’35. Because my daddy had been there the 20 years.

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah.

WARD: And yet he had been there even into the 20, you know, when he went to work there. But I do know that that -- that is a gold watch. It’s got the gold hands and all and I got the appraisal -- value to prove what the golden watch is. I mean, the man -- they told me it was actually [what it was?]. But uh, 68:00like I’m saying, when Firestone gave him that watch and that -- that wasn’t a dinner they gave my daddy when he retired. My dad had a banquet dinner at a hotel restaurant and all these people were there at it. But we still go to that one point why out of all these people, was there so few here. Now, a lot of them paid dues after that. This was just the starting to this thing. You see, you were in the ’30s.

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah.

WARD: This thing goes on with no union and then when things start going, all these things quit, you know? We quit having -- they quit having the problems. The company -- the company did take care of the people. The company provided. And uh, so there was no need. If there ever was a company that was not in need 69:00of a union, Firestone was one of them. Now, I’ve seen a lot of companies that needed unions bad, but Firestone didn’t need the union. Now, uh, I don’t know how Firestone is now. I know they talk about 400 jobs -- losing 400 jobs over there now. And I’m just saying, if they talk about losing 400 jobs now, uh, I -- I just -- I don’t understand it. Here’s a man -- here’s a plant that’s cut down so much and I don’t think, uh -- uh automation and all that cut that many jobs out. Uh, not as many as they said. And I don’t think the Japanese -- I don’t care how much good the Japanese are, they’re not, uh -- they’re not that good. I -- I’m still the -- the Japanese said that we were ignorant, illiterate. That’s what the Japs called us. Well, I’m just like 70:00[Sister Hollins?] said about that. Uh, we might be ignorant, illiterate, and don’t want to work, but we make the best. The first H bomb I remember he said was made in America, made in -- made by Americans, illiterate or not, tested in Japan. So but he can say -- they can say what they want to.

HELFAND: Um, could I ask you to squish your I-- your thought together, real -- start it, you said if there was ever a company that didn’t need a union it was Firestone, and just in a short sentence, just explain that one more time.

WARD: No, I (laughs) -- it’s -- all I said was if it’s ever a company that didn’t need a union in any time was Firestone because they had their benefits; they had all those things. So they didn’t need -- they didn’t need these 71:00people handing out these [books?]. Uh, they didn’t need these things stirring up people because these people had more than the union could give them. The only thing the union could have given these people was holes in their shoes because Akron would have closed that plant. You think Akron would have kept that plant all these years and textiles and things went the way they did if it hadn’t have been for non-union? I mean, let’s -- eh, you can -- you can only be -- people can only be so stupid. Uh, you can’t be completely ignorant. You’ve got to realize that -- they’ve got to realize that you can only give so much. It’s got to be give and take; I don’t care whether -- what union it is. And what management it is. But management is treating the 72:00people right, you don’t need unions. Of course, all these other plants that’s closed, why wouldn’t it been -- look at Firestone’s other plants. They went by the wayside. They’re not there. How many textile jobs have been lost in the last 20 years? And where were -- where was the [jack shop?], a lot of them lost? The ones in the North. I don’t know may textile jobs in the North. Do you know of many?

GEORGE STONEY: No.

WARD: I -- I can’t name them. They used to tell me about the big one up in -- oh, Akron. I don’t know of it. I know they’ve got a rubber factory up there, rubber tires. This was somebody as now, but I don’t know of all these textile jobs that’s lost. So that -- that’s the only thing I see and I just don’t see how they take it and needed the union to get holes in their shoes, because they would have sure been out of work. Now the people that went through that misery in the ’30s, they went through the Depression; they worked hard; 73:00they were, uh -- these were really God-fearing people, Christians. I know because my mother and daddy put the fear of God in me. And, uh, they worked hard -- uh, how many of -- uh, how many other textile plants over in Gastonia? Those people sitting there over on retirement now. How many is doing it? How many -- the -- what we call the rich workers, the rich people, the blue collar, is sitting over there drawing their pension, got paid up insurance, right now sitting on the can and drawing the pension.

GEORGE STONEY: Now there’s one other thing that I’d like to ask you that I can’t figure out. Uh, we’ve been talking to textile workers all over the South and a lot of them were angry at their second hands, or angry at the foremen --

74:00

WARD: Yes, OK.

GEORGE STONEY: -- but almost every single one of them respected the big boss and I have found almost none of them who resented the fact that those big bosses were making a lot of money of their backs and building big mansions.

WARD: No, no, no. Let’s go to -- that’s ridiculous. See, now I don’t know about what a second hand is in another plant. A second hand might be just a stick boss that, uh, just knocks the crap out of anybody and sees them as slaves, like you see a prison guard on a movie beating a prisoner and doing things. Now, a second hand in the Firestone mill was the overseer of that shift. He assigned the loads. He done the stuff. And the overseer for the 75:00three shifts, he didn’t build no homes. I don’t know where anybody can tell you -- I don’t know of a damn overseer --

GEORGE STONEY: No, you, uh -- I’m sorry; you misunderstood me. What I mean is that they were resentful sometimes of the second hand because it didn’t do what they wanted it to, played favorites or whatever.

WARD: Well that’s what some say --

GEORGE STONEY: But I don’t ever find any -- I’ve found almost no textile worker who’s saying, look at that big mansion. They made it on our backs.

WARD: What big mansion are we talking -- I’m trying to find the mansion.

GEORGE STONEY: We’re talking about the -- we’re talking about the big mansions of the Stowe’s and the Lineburger’s and those people.

WARD: OK, that isn’t the management.

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.

WARD: See, you’re talking about Stowe’s and Lineburger’s, they were over in Gastonia. You’re talking about somebody now that owned the plant.

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm, yeah.

WARD: That ain’t management.

GEORGE STONEY: OK, I see.

WARD: Man-- that’s, uh -- that’s ownership. He’s dragging in the money. Uh, Firestone didn’t have their -- any owners down here running this plant. 76:00Firestone had an overseer, a superintendent. And his name when I was a kid was McKelvey. A Mr. Hall took over in ’56, ’57. And I don’t know when he retired. He’s 90 years old now. About 90. Uh, now that’s only two --

GEORGE STONEY: So that -- there was no local ownership?

WARD: There’s no even -- no, uh -- no connection with what -- see, you’ve been up -- you’ve talked to people at Parkdale, uh --

GEORGE STONEY: Grove.

WARD: You’re talking about the [me?], Parkdale and Grovesneck. Shoot. You’re talking about Parkdale and Gr-- that was to me -- that was to us the slums of textiles.

GEORGE STONEY: I see.

77:00

WARD: Parkdale, Groves, all that little wheels all over the place down through there. You seen them everywhere. They -- that -- those is jobs that good workers couldn’t get at the Firestone.

GEORGE STONEY: I see.

WARD: I mean, uh, when you couldn’t get a job at Firestone, you had to go to some of them jobs.

GEORGE STONEY: I see.

WARD: Uh, that’s what that is. And you’ve seen the people up there. That’s a whole -- let me tell you, you can put -- you can have, oh, one person, put him in a job. He couldn’t run that j-- he’d run it in one plant, good. You put him over in another plant, in a plant like Firestone, he couldn’t handle the job. He wouldn’t be the man for the job. That was a whole diff-- Firestone was the cream of the crop. Uh, I don’t know of, uh -- like I said, them jobs down at Parkdale -- I mean, Modina, Parkdale, all them mills down through there. Uh, Firestone people looked down at that. I mean, 78:00they looked down; they said, Lord, look at their house.

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah.

WARD: Look at our house. Look at Parkdale’s house. Look at their house. See, I mean, you could see it everywhere.

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah.

WARD: You didn’t have to go -- go anywhere to see it. You could see it. That’s the difference.

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah, OK.

HELFAND: Thank you so much.

WARD: Oh, you’ve been doing great.

WARD: Get my spray right there. I’m about --

GEORGE STONEY: Oh, absolutely. Good gosh. Jamie.

(No audio, [01:18:30 - 01:19:54])

79:00

[Silence]

80:00

JAMIE STONEY: What I was able to find, there was the one and I asked about that other film (inaudible) … no I thought it would be interesting (inaudible)

MELVILLE GARDENER: What would you like to know? What -- just what about it that --

JAMIE STONEY: Why don’t you slide around this way so I can get it in the background here. Just give us a little. When was it built?

MELVILLE GARDENER: Well I don’t know the exact date when it was built or even close to the date, but I would -- I would say that the church is at least 100 years old, or older because it -- it’s been here a long time. I -- I just 81:00wish I did know how old it is. But I don’t -- I mean, I never have --

HELFAND: Why don’t you tell me how -- tell me how long, you know, your family’s been coming here. And you know, you could point around to the cemetery a little bit.

MELVILLE GARDENER: The cemetery? The uh -- as you see the cemetery there, that’s -- that’s all family. This is the whole -- there’s only one person here that’s buried that doesn’t belong to the family. And uh, you see the marking out there, the big cross, it’s a little grave over there. This is a 13-year-old girl. She’s a white girl. This -- this used to be nominally white, you know, church. And, uh, it was integrated. I forget what year it was. And then whenever it was integrated, the whites pulled out and left -- and left it here for us, you know. Now I just can’t go into that deep enough because I don’t know the real details of it. But, uh, the church is -- it’s 82:00-- it’s been -- it’s been here for at least 100 years or more.

HELFAND: There’s your family.

MELVILLE GARDENER: Yeah.

HELFAND: And you’re related to most of the people here, huh?

MELVILLE GARDENER: Yes, this -- the whole -- the whole congregation in this is -- they’re related to me. There is some white families that still come once in a while, but then they don’t come often, you know. But everybody here, as you see, will be related.

JAMIE STONEY: Who’s this fellow right here?

MELVILLE GARDENER: Oh, this is my son. This is my baby, uh, Brian. (laughs) And the lady in -- can you get that -- the lady in the orange skirt, that’s my sister-in-law. That’s my brother’s wife. He’s deceased. And the girl in there with the white pocketbook, that’s my daughter. And the little girl in the pink, that’s my granddaughter. And the lady in the blue is my wife. And 83:00this man -- this boy that came out of the church is Travis Garden. That’s my cousin’s son. Here come some more of the family here now. (Laughter)

MARY ROSELL: Morning.

MELVILLE GARDENER: Let me kind of introduce you, y’all meet last week?

ROSELL: Yeah, we sure did.

MELVILLE GARDENER: This is my cousin Mary.

ROSELL: Hi.

MELVILLE GARDENER: Last name?

ROSELL: [Rosell?].

MELVILLE GARDENER: Cindy.

CINDY: Cindy [Amee?]

MELVILLE GARDENER: And that’s my—they’re brothers and sisters. That’s Wayne [Garden?].

CINDY: This is my sister’s daughter Dawn.

MELVILLE GARDENER: Yeah, she’s here from Germany. This is my Aunt Clara.

CINDY: She the oldest—

MELVILLE GARDENER: She’s the oldest member of the church. And this is her grandson, and her son—

CINDY: No that’s his son.

MELVILLE GARDENER: His son. Okay (laughter) you two look alike (laughter) what’s your name now?

FRED: Fred.

84:00

MELVILLE GARDENER: Fred, okay

ROSELL: And that’s Travis, you saw him coming out of—

MELVILLE GARDENER: Travis. And this is?

ROSELL, CINDY, and DAWN: Travis.

MELVILLE GARDENER: And this is your son?

CINDY: Yes.

MELVILLE GARDENER: Okay that’s her son, Travis.

ROSELL: Oh you know we go so may, we don’t who’s who. (laughter)

MELVILLE GARDENER: I was explaining to them at home I don’t even know my own name. (laughter)(inaudible) and this is my sister Grace y’all met.

GEORGE STONEY: Yes we did. Hello Grace.

GRACE: Hi

MELVILLE GARDENER: And a, a—

F1: Come on Doree.

MELVILLE GARDENER: Doree. And that’s Grace’s daughter Doree.

DOREE: Hi.

MELVILLE GARDENER: And Grace’s granddaughter.

DOREEN: (inaudible)

MELVILLE GARDENER: (inaudible) gonna have you do some more introductions because you might remember the names more than I do.

GRACE: Come on (inaudible). It’s the picture, you gonna be on TV or what?

DOREE: Here he is. Well they’re’s [Skeeter?] down there.

GRACE: Come on Skeeter. Now these are my, these are my, this is my daughter.

DOREE: Baby daughter, and my daughter.

GRACE: And this is her daughter, baby. And this is my grandson whom I’m raising. I have two children.

85:00

DOREE: Son

GRACE: My son’s children. This is Doree’s baby boy.

HELFAND: Morning.

GRACE, DOREE, etc.: Morning.

DOREE: How you doing?

HELFAND: Good. Good to see you.

DOREE: Is that it?

GEORGE STONEY: That’s it.

HELFAND: But will be talking to you more after.

FATHER: (inaudible) you’re gonna be talking after Mass?

GEORGE STONEY: Yes, yes.

FATHER: And your name again is?

GEORGE STONEY: George Stoney, and Judy Helfand, James Stoney.

FATHER: Good. Good morning.

GEORGE STONEY: Stoney and Helfand. Two Stoneys and one Helfand.

FATHER: Oh well, I’ll mention that you want to speak to them after Mass.

GEORGE STONEY: Yes.

FATHER: And if anyone wants to stay and talk…

GEORGE STONEY: Oh thank you.

FATHER: Oh good.

HELFAND: And maybe meet, maybe Mr. [Garden?] could introduce us cause we all met last week.

FATHER: Okay good.

GEORGE STONEY: Thank you.

MELVILLE GARDENER: This is my oldest son, Thomas Jr. and his wife Barbara.

GEORGE STONEY: Hello

THOMAS AND BARBARA: Hi.

MELVILLE GARDENER: (inaudible)

THOMAS: yeah I met this lady here last week, so…

86:00

BARBARA: Nice seeing you.

MELVILLE GARDENER: Go on by now.

GEORGE STONEY: How do you manage to get everybody on time?

MELVILLE GARDENER: That’s one thing we’ve always been , we’ve always said people used to be late, and this was one of things that the old priest that came here, if you weren’t here the Mass started at 9:30, and very few times it’s been late starting. Most of us are here on time, there are still some that straggle in late. (laughter) Still happens.

GEORGE SONEY: (inaudible) JAMIE STONEY: (inaudible) Couldn’t think of a prettier spot.

MELVILLE GARDENER: We like it here. Do you want to be introduced be for the Mass started, uh…

GEORGE STONEY: No I, the Father came out and he said that he would just announce that we want to speak to them after the Mass.

87:00

HELFAND: But you know what, you might even wanna remind everybody, you know,

MELVILLE GARDENER: After Mass?

HELFAND: You might invite people to stick around and we’ll hang out and talk like we did last time.

MELVILLE GARDENER: Alright, okay.

HELFAND: You probably greet people, can we just film you greeting people? So you don’t have to introduce us.

MELVILLE GARDENER: This is my first cousin Raymond, his wife—

FRANKIE: Frankie.

MELVILLE GARDENER: Frankie, and this is –

FRANKIE: Victoria.

MELVILLE GARDENER: Victoria, now what are you? Are you my cousin?

(laughter)

MELVILLE GARDENER: You, you, your daughter, Frankie’s daughter. And this is—

FRANKIE: Niece Janis.

MELVILLE GARDENER: My niece Janis [Rosell?]. That’s my niece Janis Rosell. You saw her mother, she just went in the church. And this is, you know, we’ve been, we grew up together, Raymond and I. Okay now here comes an organist. The lady there in the red is the organist. That’s Wayne’s wife, and their son. Okay, I think that all out here right now. And here’s somebody coming here. 88:00This is, your name?

RITA: Rita.

MELVILLE GARDENER: This is Rita, my niece and her son. My sister [Corine?], which is deceased.

RITA: Hi, how are y’all doing?

JAMIE STONEY: Doing alright.

HELFAND: You expect more people to come?

MELVILLE GARDENER: Oh sure, there will be more, there will be more.

HELFAND: Okay, we might catch some people driving up.

MELVILLE GARDENER: Right. That’ll be fine.

HELFAND: You probably just say hi to people without introducing them to the camera crew right? So you could say “Good morning” as if we’re not here.

MELVILLE GARDENER: Alright.

HELFAND: What does that feel like, all your relatives?

MELVILLE GARDENER: Well, it just makes me feel good because -- just to see what 89:00a great big family can be and us uniting, you know, to worship, you know, the Lord. I mean, that’s the -- that’s the main thing, the togetherness we have. We -- we’re a united family and this is something that a lot of people can’t enjoy, you know.

HELFAND: Now, could you just tell me the relationship between the sort of the church and Spencer Mountain and the mill, or Spencer Love and the mill?

MELVILLE GARDENER: I don’t know how this little spot became, you know, belonging to the church, but my first cousin owned to the north of here and my aunt owns to the east of here and the mill owns the south of here. And my uncle owned to the west of here. So now how that came about, I don’t know. (laughs) And this little spot right in here just belongs to -- it belonged to 90:00the abbey. And they built the church here years ago. And since then -- since came on the -- up till -- up until the day.

HELFAND: And are most of the folks in the church, are they related to the Spencer Mountain Mill or to one mill or another in one way?

MELVILLE GARDENER: Well, my father and his older brother, Robert, got the thing started. And my uncle Robert was first Catholic, you know, that was down here. And then my father became Catholic. And then all of his 24 children became Catholics and their offsprings. And here comes a -- OK. Hey, how you doing, your name?

CASPER: Casper [Butler?].

MELVILLE GARDENER: Casper Butler He’s a relative by marriage.

JAMIE STONEY: See it’s like, most families I know that are this big are spread out all over the country, but you’ve got everybody here in one church and you 91:00sort of meet every Sunday.

MELVILLE GARDENER: Well not all of them. We’ve still got some that’s not here, you know, as far away as Texas. My -- as a matter of fact, my daughter is in Texas.

HELFAND: We should just get shots of some people coming in without being introduced.

MELVILLE GARDENER: That a way Brian. That’s my son, you know him. (laughter) She’s trying to hide her face with an umbrella. Move that umbrella. Your name [Twanna?]?

CLARISSA: Nope.

MELVILLE GARDENER: Nope. Which one?

CLARISSA: Nope. Clarissa.

MELVILLE GARDENER: How you doing Clarissa.

CLARISSA: Fine.

MELVILLE GARDENER: Good

BRIAN GARDERNER: Are we on TV, Pop pop?

92:00

MELVILLE GARDENER: No. Here come another one of my cousins, Harold Kay and his finance. Its 9:30 so we might start. Good morning Harold.

PAUL: Harold? Paul.

MELVILLE GARDENER: Paul, Paul. Forgive me.

[break in video]

93:00

[Organ playing]

CONGREGATION: What a friend we have in Jesus, All our sins and griefs to bear. What a privilege to carry, Everything to God in prayer.

Oh what peace we often forfeit, Oh what needless pain we bear, All because we do 94:00not carry, Everything to God in prayer.

Have we trials and temptations? Is there trouble anywhere? We should never be discouraged— Take it to the Lord in prayer. Can we find a friend so faithful, 95:00Who will all our sorrows share? Jesus knows our every weakness; Take it to the Lord in prayer.

Are we weak and heavy-laden, Cumbered with a load of care? Precious Savior, still our refuge— Take it to the Lord in prayer. Do thy friends despise, 96:00forsake thee? Take it to the Lord in prayer! In His arms He’ll take and shield thee, Thou wilt find a solace there.

FATHER: Good morning my friends.

CONGREGATION: Good morning.

FATHER: Welcome to St. Helens. In the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

97:00

CONGREATION: Amen.

FATHER: The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.

CONGREGATION: And also with you.

FATHER: Prepare ourselves to celebrate the sacred (inaudible) Eucharist, let us call to mind all of our sins and offences. You were sent to heal the contrite, Lord have mercy.

CONGREGATION: Lord have mercy.

FATHER: You came to call sinners, Christ have mercy.

CONGREGATION: Christ have mercy.

FATHER: You plead for the right hand of the Father, Lord have mercy.

CONGREATION: Lord have mercy.

FATHER: May almighty God have mercy upon us, forgive us our sins, and bring us to everlasting life

CONGREGATION: Amen.

FATHER: Glory to God in the highest.

FATHER and CONGREGATION: (inaudible) Lord God, Heavenly King, Almighty God, Our Father, we worship you, we give thanks, we pray for your (inaudible). Lord Jesus 98:00Christ, (inaudible) Son of the Father, (inaudible), Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world, have mercy on us. You are seated at the right hand of the Father, receive our prayers. You alone are the Holy One, you alone are the Lord, you are the most high, Jesus Christ, In the Holy Spirt, in the glory of God, the Father, Amen.

FATHER: Let us pray that God will make us one in mind and Heart. (pause) Father, help us to seek the values that will bring us lasting joy in this changing world. In our desire for what you prize, make us one in mind and heart. Grant this through our Lord Jesus Christ, your son, who lives and reigns with you and the Holy Spirit. One God forever and ever.

99:00

CONGREGATION: Amen.

FRANKIE: A reading from the book of the prophet Isaiah. “I come to gather nations of every language; the shall come and see my glory. I will set a sign among them; from them I will send fugitives to the nations: to Tarshish, Put, and Lud, Mososch, Tubla and Javan, to the distant coastlands that have never heard of my fame, or seen my glory; and they shall proclaim my glory among the nations. They shall bring all your brethren from all the nations as an offering to the Lord, on horses and in chariots, in carts, upon mules and dromedaries, to 100:00Jerusalem, my holy mountain, says the Lord, just as the Israelites bring their offering to the house of the Lord in clean vessels. Some of these I will take as priests and Levites, says the Lord. This is the word of the Lord.

CONGREATION: Praise be to God.

FRANKIE: Response (inaudible) Psalm. Go out to the whole world and tell the good news.

CONGREGATION: Go out to the whole world and tell the good news.

FRANKIE: Praise the Lord, all you nations, glorify him, all you peoples.

CONGREGATION: Go out to the whole world and tell the good news.

FRANKIE: What steadfastness, what kindness toward us, the fidelity of the Lord endures forever.

CONGREGATION: Go out to the whole world and tell the good news.

FRANKIE: A reading from a letter to the Hebrews. You have forgotten the encouraging words addressed to you as sons. My sons do not disdain the 101:00discipline of the Lord. (inaudible) For whom the Lord loves he disciplines. He scourges every (inaudible) he sees. Bear your trials as the discipline of God. He deals with you as sons, for what son is there whom his father does not discipline? At the time it is administered all discipline seems a cause for grief, and not for joy, but later it brings forth the fruit of peace and justice, to those who are train in its school. So strengthen your drooping hands and your weak knees, make straight the paths you walk on (inaudible), may not be dislocated but healed. This is the word of the Lord.

CONGREGATION: Praise be to God.

102:00

[Organ Music]

CONGREGATION: Alleluia, Alleluia, Alleluia.

FRANKIE: I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Light, so says the Lord. No comes (inaudible) himself through me.

CONGREGATION: Alleluia, Alleluia, Alleluia.

FATHER: The Lord be with you.

CONGREGATION: And also with you.

FATHER: Our reading from the Holy Gospel according to Luke.

CONGREGATION: (inaudible)

FATHER: Jesus went through cities and towns teaching all the while making the 103:00way towards Jerusalem. Someone asked him, “Lord are they few in number, they who are to be saved?” He replied, “Try and come in thru the narrow door, many I tell you will try to enter and yet unable, and once the master of the house has risen to lock the door and you stand outside knocking and Saying, ‘Sir open for us.’ He will say reply, ‘I do not know where you come from.’ Then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in your company, you taught in our streets.’ But he will answer, ‘I tell you I do not know where you come from, away from me you evil doers.’ There will be wailing and grinding of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and all the prophets safe 104:00within the kingdom of God. And you yourselves rejected. People will come from the east and the west, from the north and the south, and will take their place at the feet in the kingdom of God. Some who are last will be first, and some who are First will be last.” This is the Gospel of the Lord.

CONGREGATION: Praise be Lord, Jesus Christ.

FATHER: My dear friends in Christ, and Father [Raines?] from the abbey, helping out today. There seems to be a lack of communication prior (inaudible) the Reverend Watson would preach today so I didn’t prepare a formal Sermon, so please bear with me, I’ll try to wing it through the service, okay? So be patient. In the entrance antiphon, we hear the words “Listen Lord and answer me, Savior [servant?] I trust in you, I call to you all day long, have mercy on 105:00me oh, Lord.” So many times in our Christian traditions, we think that our salvation comes from all our efforts. We think that the more we pray, the holier we become. The more we fast, or the more good work we do, we become holier. But all holiness comes from God himself. The saints remind us that we can’t even turn to God, or think of God without first giving up that (inaudible) to turn towards him. And sometimes it is a misconception, we think that our holiness only depends upon me. For what can I do to grow in holiness? How many prayers must I say? How often must I come to Mass? How often must I receive the sacrament? In other words, so many times we put the emphasis on I. 106:00Me, myself. What do I do to gain holiness and goodness of life? But even in the opening antiphon, we ask the Lord to listen and answer me. And we’re living in an age of mass media communications, when hear yak, yak, yak, talk, talk, talk, everything gotta be going on and dialed on constantly. And the Lord reminds us to listen, Holy Father Benedict, in the rule he writes for his monks, in the only words, that “Listen my sons, to the precepts of your master, and open your ears, to my teaching.” And all of us then have to be listeners. My own brother at the abbey, Father Kenneth always upbraids me, “You’re not listening to me.” We may be talking and I may think a couple steps ahead, if I’m trying to give an answer or objection, instead of listening. We all seem 107:00to make that mistake, we want to be the talkers and the actors, and have our ideas put forward. But scripture reminds us, we ask God to listen, how much more must we listen to God in our lives? We all need some primetime for ourselves, where we can be quiet, where we can turn off the TV, the radio, the VCR and all of the [lay?] communication that disturb our peace of mind. And turn to God in silence. We are living in an age of so much rabid noise, even among teenagers, unless the radio and the sterol is blaring your eardrums out or shattering the glassware (inaudible) it has not effected our lives. And therefore we must learn to listen, to be quiet. And listen to God working our lives. Sometimes we think 108:00God will come to us, like he did in the burning bush to Moses, in some great marvelous feat, the burning bush, or the transfiguration on Mt. Tabor, but maybe most of the time, God works through those around us, our brothers and sisters, our mother and father, our relatives and our friends, and we have to learn to listen. And God works in very strange ways, remember once when Moses is wait- waiting for the Lord? He was looking for God in a great big flash of lighting, or a cloud, and God came to him in a very tiny voice, a zephyr, a small gentle breeze. And often times God works in that way in our lives. Instead of being people that think, everything depends on my effort, we must learn to listen more closely to God, speaking to us through one another. And so I put the 109:00[employment?] to not (inaudible) effort, but God is working in us, and all good things and all graces comes from God. And therefore we should be tuned in and on the wavelength of God, and that is not a loud voice, or talking and screaming and shouting and hollering, but is quiet, listening. And God works in us and through us in many ways. Sometime we have to stop and wait for the Lord see how [worthy?] in. And therefore all the tribulations that befall, this past week we buried Father Martin, who had been at the abbey for over 60 years. I’m sure many of you people know Father Martin. He (inaudible) at the abbey for many years, people came and he was very gracious to them, and the good Lord called him home very last Tuesday at the abbey cemetery. And therefore we think back 110:00over the 60 years of service (inaudible). And God worked through Father Martin in very quiet ways. He was a quiet sort of man, and yet God worked in him in wonderful fashion, with all the monks at the abbey, the students, the people he came in contact with. And people came from all over the countryside to attend this funeral. There were 20 priests for (inaudible), he never refused them, when some priest was sick, or unable to be present, the called Father Martin Prior, he’d always send a monk out to help, he never refused anyone who had a need. And so we have to listen to the word of God coming to us in quiet and peace. So by teaching us to have some quiet time in our daily lives, in which we turn off- tune out the world, and tune off everything, and to perhaps sit quietly and listen to God speaking to us. It may be recalling some of the 111:00scripture reading that we hear on Sunday, that (inaudible) those who they are going to be first in the kingdom of Heaven, will often times be last, and the last will be first. And we know that God’s love is for all his people. There is no such thing as an elite in the kingdom of God. We are all his children, boys and girls, men and women, we are all children of the Lord. And therefore we should sit, listen to the Lord speaking to us through the world around us. And it doesn’t mean we tune out the needs of other people, or the compassion we should have for those who are sick and suffering, but God works in very strange ways. And sometimes we have to sit quietly and listen to the word of God, coming into our lives. And so my good people, as we listen today to the Lord, and we call upon Him, Lord answer me, listen, say your servant who trust in you, 112:00I call you all day long, have mercy on me, O Lord. And in the time and quiet of our rooms or wherever we find ourselves, if we just use that Jesus prayer, “Jesus, Son of God, have mercy upon me, a sinner.” Our words go to the heart of God and we listen for his healing words in our daily lives. Let us (inaudible) listen to God, and to listen to one another. Sometimes we are given so much to talking, and correspondence, and yakking and carrying on that we fail to listen to those around us. To hear God speaking to us through one another. 113:00(pause) Let us stand for the profession of our Holy Faith. We believe in one God…

CONGREGATION: the Father, the Almighty, maker of Heaven and Earth, and all that is seen and unseen. We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, one in Being with the Father. Through him all things were made. For us men and for our salvation he came down from heaven, and by the power Holy Spirit he was born of the Virgin Mary, and became man. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate, he suffered, died, and was buried. On the third day he rose again in fulfillment of the Scriptures, he 114:00ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his Kingdom will have no end. We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son. With the Father and the Son he is worship and glorified. He has spoken through the Prophets. We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic church. We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. We look for the resurrection of the dead and the life in the world to come. Amen.

FATHER: As we gather together today as God’s people, let us place our petitions before our Heavenly Father.

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FRANKIE: From all directions we bring our petitions to the Lord, our God, the center of our lives, who always hears and answers us. For our Holy Father, the Pope, and for all natives in the church, may the protect and proclaim the truths of our faith. We pray to the Lord.

CONGREGATION: Lord hear our prayers.

FRANKIE: For the candidates to political office, especially our presidential candidates, that they may campaign fairly and address the issues honestly. We pray to you O Lord.

CONGREGATION: Lord hear our prayer.

FRANKIE: For the people of our community, that we never take our faith for granted, but remain grateful for all God’s blessings. We pray to the Lord.

CONGREGATION: Lord hear our prayers.

FRANKIE: For the homeless, the hungry and the unemployed, that they receive the assistance that they need. We pray to the Lord.

CONGREGATION: Lord hear our prayers.

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FRANKIE: For the ill and the dying, that they may be cared for and comforted in their time of need. We pray to the Lord.

CONGREGATION: Lord hear our prayers.

FRANKIE: For all who have died, especially the brothers and sisters of our community, that they enjoy forever the vision of God’s glory. We pray to the Lord.

CONGREGATION: Lord hear our prayers.

FRANKIE: God of life and love, open our hearts and our minds, help us to a better and deeper understanding of the truth of our faith. We ask this through Christ our Lord.

CONGREGATION: Amen.

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Organ Music