L. Boyd Deal Interview

STONEY: -- that people understand that mu--

F1: -- and they'd think that you'd be a radical.

STONEY: -- that the lower levels of management have the same problems, for example, we were talking with a Catholic priest the other day whose father was in his middle-50s, and a textile engineer in New England.

HELFAND: Utica, New York.

STONEY: And he was -- he helped prepare that factory to move South, got the machinery ready, helped organize the -- the, you know, the operation and everything else, and the last day before they moved, he was called in and told, "You have no future here."

DEAL: I've seen it time and time again here.

STONEY: In the '50s, and he was in his 50s.

DEAL: Yeah, mostly between the area of 55 and 66.

STONEY: OK, now let's see if you can talk about that, OK?

DEAL: OK --

STONEY: Just say, as a former supervisor.

DEAL: As a formal supervisor of Fieldcrest Cannon, or --

STONEY: Nope, you don't have to even identify the plant, just as a former supervisor.

DEAL: OK, OK, as a former supervisor in a textile plant, I found that what was really hurtful to my conscience and all, was that the same management team that carried out orders to get rid of me, or anybody else that wasn't doing exactly the way they wanted things run or maybe wasn't dressing right to suit 'em or whatever, the same people that would carry out the tactics of running off, the sweepers, the weavers, the hammers, were being misused themselves, they were -- when they reached the age of 55, they were found [falled?] in some way or another to run 'em off, so they could -- I -- I don't know what the real reason was, except it looked like to me, uh, they had done used this person to the best of their advantage, and they needed a younger man that could fight a 00:02:00little harder, this man already had his home paid for, his family through college, so now weed him out. So a supervisor, in most of these textile plants, is no more taken care of than I am through my union, the Act Two, which I'm really proud of, that they ain't got no security at all. I've seen 'em leave out the gate, 88 of 'em in my 30 years, in my end of the mill, 88 of 'em I kept the list of that didn't make it till they were 65, and it broke my heart just as much to see a man that had give that much time to a company, live in dis-- leave in disgrace and dishonor after he had given the factory owner so much of his life, and so much of his energy and time.

JAMIE STONEY: What was the salary difference between a 55-year-old and 24-year-old?

DEAL: Well, the salary different -- difference wouldn't be that much, uh, the thing that they didn't like is these people were getting four weeks, five 00:03:00weeks paid -- four weeks paid vacation, they could take a new man then, right out of college, put him on a training program, he only gets one week, and then he -- it takes him years and years, five years down the road, to start even getting two or three weeks, and then it takes him 25 years to get the things that demand they just run off, can't get no more, and the saddest part that I seen is that supervisors had no government agency to go to and say, "I'm discriminated against," he had no, uh, EEOC officer, nothin', no union to go to, (laughter) he didn't have nobody down at the union hall, he sure -- sure didn't have no love down there, so I pr-- I thank God for Act Two.

F1: Well didn't you see the same thing in the workers, L. Boyd, so where they bring 'em in and tell 'em they've got a certain amount of time to qualify for the jobs, and maybe that was a good worker, but they just couldn't get the production up to that level in that amount of time, then maybe they just needed 00:04:00another week, or another 10 days, or something, but they would weed those out the same --

DEAL: Yeah, the same way.

F1: -- in order to hire a new one because they -- they had kept that person on a training rate for, say 13 weeks, and then all of a sudden, that 13 weeks is, well you've almost got production out of that person for 13 weeks, then fine, kick them out the door because they can't do it, hire somebody new, put them on that rate, that means you're not paying them the base rate of the actual hammer, whoever.

STONEY: When did that happen?

F1: That happens a lot at plant six.

DEAL: They call 'em the 90-day wonders.

F1: Absolutely.

DEAL: Like they call an officer in the army, it comes out NCO, they call him the 90-day wonder. Well in the plants, in 90 days they can fire you for any reason, they don't have to really give you a reason, but they analyze you so much, during those 90 days, if they say, "Oh, he's accident prone, she's accident prone, oh she's a handicap because, uh, she's got this medical problem, uh," and maybe I am getting too deep, but, I -- you know --

F1: But these things go on.

DEAL: -- the right's right and wrong's wrong, and I've seen it, and I want to get it off my conscience, and off my heart, and tell the truth.

F1: Well, because the supervisors are the ones that have to get rid of these people, it's not Fitzgibbons that's getting rid of 'em, but it's Fitzgibbons that is originally giving the order to do it, and keep these people in there, you're making money off of them. The ones that are making production and over, you're not making any money off of them, 'cause you're having to pay them.

HELFAND: What is Fitzgibbons telling the supervisors to do in terms of looking out for people who are interested in the union, or that kind of thing?

F1: Well, in terms of people that are interested in the union, I think he's telling them to look for anything they can find to get rid of 'em. Whether it be a slow down in their job -- because now they've increased the rates to 120%, that's ridiculous here, yes. And that's ridiculous for anybody, 100% is a great amount, but now when you got to go -- say, we did -- we had to do 1,400 pillowcases to make production, OK, now we have to do at least 1,700 to 00:06:00make base-rate, OK, then after 1,700 you've got to go on to, say, like 2,000, 2,400 to make any money. So that cuts you back down to $48 a day.

HELFAND: Do people walk out of there?

F1: No, not really.

F2: No.

HELFAND: What do they -- what do they look like?

F1: They'll sit right there.

F2: All they do is just sit there --

F1: -- and complain.

F2: They complain --

F1: -- to each other.

F2: They won't even go to the bathroom, you know, and things like this. They will work eight hours because they -- people tell you, "I need my job."

F1: It's the fear of losin' that job --

F2: That's right.

F1: -- it's fear. Fear is the biggest, you know, thing out there.

HELFAND: When I said walk out, I didn't mean like walk out with your fist raised, I meant, they must be exhausted.

F1: Absolutely.

HELFAND: That's what I mean, I mean fatigue.

F1: That's right. Because by the time you get up and you pick up a 35-pound bundle of pillowcases, 24 times a day, that means 48 times you've got to handle that bundle, because you've got to pick it up, put it on your table, 00:07:00hem it, spread it, and put it on another truck. So that's four operations you've already done. There's not time in there to go to the bathroom or go to the canteen and get you something to drink.

F2: So basically, it's what I'm saying, you're going back to the conditions of the '30s --

F1: Absolutely.

F2: -- we're not progressing, we're regressing. We're goin' back to exactly the conditions of why the people in the '30s formed unions and walked off of their jobs.

F1: That's right.

HELFAND: Now, one other thing, at the end of that strike in 1934, right here, plant six as a matter of fact, waged a big case against the mill. And they stuck it out for four years. It was a small group, it was 31 people, it was really something and I'll show you those papers, but I just wondered, the union hall looks a little empty right now, what's happening here? And what's going to happen in terms of the idea of a union in Kannapolis?

F1: The people, basically, like I told you -- said a while back, the people -- you had people to go in there and vote against the union because of fear, you know, fear of strikes, fear of, uh, plant closing and everything, you know, the people still want a union here, but right now we're going through the court cases, we're going through the federal courts, you know, and we've been in court since March the 31st, and, uh, slow process, and all the companies tried to drag it out because the company has been, basically what they're doing is buying time for them so that they can get in there and make more changes, get rid of a few more people, you know, put more fear into people, you know, like, "Well, if you speak up for the union, you know, you'll lose your job and everything," and so we're goin' and we feel like we'll get a good ruling from the court, which the company has already said, "We will appeal," you know, you're talking about in the '30s it takin' four years --

DEAL: Unbelievable we're out there.

F1: -- this could take four, five years here, the same thing, you know, so, uh, you know, like I say, you're still, since '34, things hadn't changed very much. But, you know, uh, we're here for the people whenever they decide they want the union, you know, we'll be glad, we could go now and have another election, but, uh, they've got to get over a little bit of that fear. And, um, but if the people here want another election --

DEAL: Well I'd like to say this to what Marie has said, that fear is the bottom line. My wife -- I thank God for her, she wears her union badge to work at plant one every day, and you wouldn't believe the threats that get back, dwindle down to me about what it takes for somebody to do that, so they L. Boyd, "the only thing that's saving your wife's job right now is they think she is a government informer." That since she testified, that they think that the 00:10:00United States government wants to really know what's going on inside the mill, and this is second-hand information that gets back to me, the only thing that's saving her job is that they think she is a government informant.

STONEY: You're not disabusing them, are you? You're not telling them that she isn't?

F1: Absolutely. I think there's got to be a gray --

DEAL: As I said, that goes down to the bottom line, fear, and I hate that we're involved in it so deeply, in fear, and I do fear for tomorrow, I do hope and pray they don't fire my wife, but if they do, I know why. She's a good worker, I'd give 30 years, she'd give 21, that's 51 years, all we ask for is a few crumbs off the rich man's table serve.

STONEY: OK, thank you very much.

DEAL: I hope that don't get me into --

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