Dee Neely and Kathy Lamb Interviews

JUDITH HELFAND: That there was one guy who probably typed it -- maybe his wife typed it, one guy had a typewriter --

M1: I'm sorry, you know what? I'm going to change the tape.

HELFAND: Um, you said that -- just tell me a little bit again that the men who wrote this letter were the precursor to the black local union. They were the precursor to the NAACP or something so that we understand a little bit [who they were?] They were a loose group, they didn't have an affiliation, but, you know, they were doing civil rights. That's what they were doing. And explain about the typewriter.

DEE NEELY: OK. In the time of this letter to about Irving Mills situation, the 00:01:0050 employees at that time were perhaps involved with a cooperative endeavor to write a letter. I would suppose that Lonnie Peoples, who along with his sister, had SS or had typewriters at home. And I would think that Lonnie Peoples in all probability was able to type this letter along with words being supplied by some of the other people. They were the forerunners of union workers and activists. They were not NAACP, they were not organized, they were a group as such, but they did commune and talk with each other about their concerns. And I'm sure that if we had to point to one person who was capable of typing this letter it would have been Lonnie Peoples and maybe his sister, Prudence Johnson, might 00:02:00have helped him, but he could type and she could type and I'm sure that with the help of other people getting together and composing the words of the letter to Mr. Johnson, were perhaps typed by Lonnie Peoples.

HELFAND: OK. And, um, could you explain to me at the time here in Cooleemee maybe how many black workers -- how many, you know, the relationship between the black workers here -- the black workers where their jobs that they did in the mills and um, or what the black women did for the mill families. And, uh -- I mean, just say, like -- Now Cooleemee was, you know, a mill town. We had one mill and that was a business, and just sort of go on from there.

NEELY: (sighs)

HELFAND: Do you need a drink of water?

NEELY: No, no. At the time that we're talking about --

HELFAND: Say in the 1930s. Don't say at the time. Why don't you wipe off your face?

M1: Has -- has your -- what happened in that car accident?

NEELY: In 1934 when this action was going on, Cooleemee at that time was a mill town, the only industry here. The workers, especially colored workers, they worked in primarily the cloth room, the dye house, the dust room, and the platform of the cotton house. They unloaded cotton, hauled out the trash, did 00:04:00the dust work for the old materials that could not be used, were filtered and baled up to be sent off. They also worked in the part that generated heat for the plant. They also worked in what they called the outside, which maintained the houses that the company owned at that time. And outside department also unloaded the coal that came in in the box cars. They also had a stable at that time where they had horses that delivered and picked up trash in the town. These men took care of the horses and they delivered certain items. At that time trucks were not really available. Not that many trucks available, so the 00:05:00mill depended upon the horses. Now, as far as the colored women, none of them worked in the factory at that time. Most of them either washed clothes or ironed clothes for the white workers. It was quite a few executives who lived in at that time a hotel that was operated by the company. My mother washed and ironed for three of those fellas. We would pick the clothes up on Monday and take the back on Wednesday. Other people worked in their homes. Believe it or not, they would work from anywhere from a dollar and a half per week to sometimes two dollars if they were fortunate. The banker had people to work with him. So the women worked primarily in the people's homes. Some of them worked during the farm, some of them worked at the plant -- not the plants but the workers for the plant.

HELFAND: Could you -- could you elaborate just a little bit on the women? I hear, you know, the white women would go -- the white women could work inside the mill, so who was taking care of their children? So, the black women were taking care of their children while the white women were in there and they'd cook for them and then they'd go home and then they'd have to cook and clean for themselves. Could you do that?

NEELY: No problem. The colored women would always work in the homes of the white women who were working in the weave room and the cutting room where the white women worked. And they would have black women taking care of their children while they worked and it was only a small amount of money that they could make even then. I believe around a dollar and a half a week, sometimes two dollars. They thought they were rich when they started making three dollars a week. But that was the going rate for the colored women in those days was to 00:07:00work in the kitchen and they didn't have what they call babysitters and all that in those days. They was the nanny and they kept the white people's kids. They'd go home and cook, but a lot of times in those days of cooking you had an old wood stove, coal stove, and they put the beans on before they went to work in the white folk's kitchen, and there beans would be simmering most of the day, and they'd come home when they finish up their dinner. And this was when they just had one shift at the plant. That was before they started having two and three shifts. So, people who got off from work early enough, they'd come home and do their garden work and grow that garden. They grew a lot of their food in those days and there was no freezer. They canned almost everything. Most of them raised hogs or some kind of meat to go along with their vegetables.

HELFAND: Now, you were telling me about Roosevelt last time and this and that. "And I was only nine, but we had -- we were the only people who had a radio," was that right? And everyone came to our house and, yeah, we listened to Roosevelt on the radio and maybe you could go on from there. Because see, they wrote this letter after Roosevelt was coming on the radio.

NEELY: 'Cause he came on, what, '33?

HELFAND: Why don't you take a glass -- a drink of water real quick.

NEELY: When Franklin D. Roosevelt --

HELFAND: Wait.

M1: OK.

NEELY: So, I'm looking at you.

HELFAND: Yes, sir.

NEELY: I can remember when we felt like Franklin Roosevelt was going to lead us out of the dark days and we had a radio. Many people did not have radios, but other people would come to sit around that one radio and listen to the chats that Franklin Roosevelt would give on the radio. And we were happy to know he came out with several supposed to be programs. The WPA was one of them. The CC 00:09:00-- conservation act was another one. And we were happy to see something being done. So many people were able to go to work and they had programs that would help people to work instead of having to wonder how they were gonna live.

HELFAND: Now, the one -- the thing that we're interested in is the NRA. Now, do you as a nine year old remember the blue eagle? Do you remember -- do you remember "Happy days are here again"? Do you remember any of that stuff or do you just remember seeing all the black people in your commun-- you know, all the people in your community coming and sit. Were they outside your window, were they in your living room, where were they?

NEELY: When the weather was nice you could have them sitting almost everywhere on the porch because most houses in those days had a porch and people would sit out on the porch because we didn't have many fans if any. And they would be sitting on the porch in anywhere that they could find a place to sit. And the 00:10:00NRA was one of those things that you saw the emblem, and as far as remembering about it at this point, I don't know all the details, but I do know we could hear people talking about what is was supposed to do. And it was interesting just to be sitting there listening even though you couldn't remember everything that was being said.

HELFAND: OK. One more time I want you say, you know, "We had -- we were the only" -- were you the only family that had a radio or was there one other?

NEELY: We were one of --

HELFAND: I'm going to talk over this answer with you and then we're going to let you do it. Were you the only people or was there one more?

NEELY: It was probably two or three other people in the whole town, whole black community -- colored community that had radios.

HELFAND: Did you say you were the only one?

NEELY: No, we were probably perhaps one of the three people.

HELFAND: So, if you could say maybe there were one or -- maybe -- at tops there were three people in the black community who had radios and I remember people coming to our house and listening to Roosevelt do his fireside chats.

NEELY: OK, ready?

HELFAND: I'm ready.

NEELY: I can remember that we were one of three people or so in the community who had radios at this time and people would come to visit us and listen to Roosevelt give his fireside chat as the president of the United States and this was one of the things that seemimgly brought people closer to each other.

HELFAND: And you think this is having listened to the fireside chats, reading the newspapers, this is what propelled these guys to think, OK, Roosevelt's on our side or, I mean, from what we spoke about last time, it seemed like, I mean, Roosevelt wasn't something you all believed in or then -- I mean, what --

NEELY: It's not because -- I believe that at this point a lot of people were disappointed with the administration that was going out and I don't have to name them, but we were into that and trying to get over the Depression, the big fall in '29 and Roosevelt was our gleam of hope with what he called the New 00:12:00Deal. And people said we've got to do better than we have done. And it was the lack of hope. A lot of people who had not voted for the party that Roosevelt represented ended up voting for Roosevelt and that is a point that I think turned some of the cities into a two-party system. At one point it was just only one party.

HELFAND: So, OK. And what did Roosevelt -- do you think -- what did Roosevelt represent to the colored community? I'm putting that in quotes.

NEELY: I think this was the first time being young enough to understand. This 00:13:00was the first time that we could see a hope that somebody was going to try to do something to make things better for the colored people at that time. It was a ray of hope that we had not envisioned before from other administrations. I could hear people talking about this man has a grip on what is needed to help our country.

HELFAND: And could -- do you -- that's great. That's great. And, um, is there anything that you might want -- I mean, none of these folks are alive who wrote this letter, right?

NEELY: No.

HELFAND: Could you -- could you say something to the effect about none of them are alive, but what is -- and did you know about this letter before I brought it to you?

NEELY: No.

HELFAND: Could you share that?

NEELY: Uh, the letter of 1934 was written by a group of people and I had no knowledge of this letter until recently. I was advised that there was a letter and it's been authenticated that it is real, and it was from Cooleemee. And I really believe that the people who wrote this letter, even though they're all deceased now, that they had a major part in this letter being written and forwarded to Washington.

HELFAND: Yeah, that's great. All right, I think you did it. I basically, um, now you --

(break in audio)

NEELY: At this particular time you are thinking in terms of people who even though they wanted something to be done about it, they always had to wonder what was their next move without cutting their own throat. So, I'm sure that word got around and was filtered down to people. Uh, I was telling my daughter today about this 1934 letter, she saw it. And I was telling her that her grandfather was a part of this and also there were people coming in proud to a union being formed. You'd be surprised if you had a way of tracking it down how many outsiders from perhaps as far away as Massachusetts and Connecticut and places like that, and that's what was making it a hot bed around here in the South 00:16:00because so many outsiders was coming in as a forerunner to a union. That's what they were afraid of.

HELFAND: Who's "they"? Who are you talking about?

NEELY: The officials of the textile industry, they were afraid of a union.

M1: We need to change (inaudible).

NEELY: They were afr-- all --

HELFAND: OK, one second.

M1: Can you tell her who "they" were again?

HELFAND: Yeah, OK, when you say "outsiders," I know that these local unions were organized by Southerners, not just by outsiders.

NEELY: Judy, you know your research and I know my life. I know people who came here. I know a brother-in-law of my brother's who came here from New York to help try to organize people even in RJ Reynolds, right in the '30s or late -- or early '40s, and this was a movement and I'm not trying to refute what you've researched, I'm trying to tell you what I know, too. See, I left 00:17:00home in '44 to go see the Big Apple. But I know also what was going on prior to that and unions was hard and there was people who were not anywhere near North Carolina. Sure, the late Harold Carter helped organize the black union because he was one of the whites in Cooleemee who helped organize the union. But he had organized the colored workers union also. So, but these guys became paid people and they were called traitors by the people who didn't want a union and the people I'm talking about were the executives and the people from headquarters for Irving Mills. Irving Mills had a branch plant here in Cooleemee. They were from down about Durham in a little town called Irving, North Carolina. And the big stockholders didn't want a union. And when I say 00:18:00"they" I'm talking about the executives, the wheels, the people who had -- they thought a lot to lose by letting the union in.

HELFAND: But by 1939, there was -- there was a union here that was organized and the black workers joined, is that right?

NEELY: And they had their own separate union.

HELFAND: Could you say that?

NEELY: By the time a union was able to be organized in Irving Mills, which was around 1939, they had a union formed and they had separate unions for the white workers and a separate union for the colored workers. And the colored workers union operated at the old school, Cooleemee school building at what was called at that time the North Cooleemee School building, and they met regular just like the white union met. And occasionally the representative for the union would 00:19:00come to sit in on the colored union meetings.

HELFAND: And how long did the union last here in Cooleemee?

NEELY: I really don't know how many years it lasted because finally Burlington Mills bought Irving Mills out and by that time I had migrated to New York and (inaudible).

HELFAND: Last question. Um, they wrote this in private. No one until today really knew who wrote this letter. What does it mean to name the names of the people who wrote this letter back in 1934? Wait, one second. Could you, um, talk about that? Could you talk about secrets and history being passed down or not passed down and what it means to name names of people participating?

NEELY: At this time '34 wasn't [open?] to the union organization. They had 00:20:00their way of having supposedly little social clubs and organizations where they would have bingo parties and that was a social outlet, but they discussed their business in private among those people who would come. That's the way they did that work behind the scenes. At one point prior to the formation of the union they had what they called the Young Men's Social Club of North Cooleemee. The colored people were the only people who volunteered. They would meet at different houses and they would discuss what was going on in their world of work along with other interests in the community.

HELFAND: What's it like to name names and add names to this letter 60 years after it was written?

NEELY: I feel like this is the time for people to know and realize that had not these people taken these steps, we probably would not have gained as much as fast we did. So, to name them I would like to feel like we're giving credit to the people who started an active movement for the colored people.

HELFAND: Was it just for colored people or was it -- were they part of the labor movement at that time? Were they doing something -- were they joining forces with the white people in a sense, because it was a period of liberation for everybody.

NEELY: In a -- in a --

HELFAND: One second, one second.

NEELY: At this particular time --

HELFAND: When? What time are you talking about?

NEELY: In 1934 and up until the time union reform, these people had to do their 00:22:00work for themselves. They felt like, sure, this is a labor movement, but this is our movement now because they felt like they were being left out. And so to actually organize themselves was their way of getting attention for them even though it ended up being a joint effort finally. But at first it was them going for themselves. They had to be part -- to let people know our voices need to be heard. So inadvertently, it turned out to be that they had to join forces with the labor movement. It was became a part of it. But at first they were actually trying to call attention to the colored workers needs.

HELFAND: And what was it like for you to grow up in the mill village? Can you say, "I grew up in Cooleemee, it was a mill village, ta da. Explain that to me just a little bit.

NEELY: It's easy for me to say growing up in this small mill village I had very little discrimination as such except knowing that I had to go to a school that sat on one hill for colored people and the other school sat on another hill for white people. I also know that they had a high school right here in Cooleemee for the white high school kids, but we either had to go to a school in Mocksville, pass by a white school to get to a black high school. And my daddy sent us to Salisbury, which was 13 miles away. So that was the educational part of it. But as far as growing up, we played ball against each other. If we had a fight it wasn't black/white, it was just two boys deciding to fight.

HELFAND: OK, but I want you talk about growing up in a mill town, in a mill 00:24:00village. Segregation somewhat understood. The control of the mill village, what was the presence of the mill? I mean, what does that mean?

NEELY: (sighs) The people when -- when Irving Mills was blooming, the economy was nice. But I can remember also when they went on three days, two days, and people had to do a lot of shifting to get along. So, yes, growing up in case -- some cases it was hard to get along. Segregation, it was there but it was a written -- unwritten thing that you go your way and I go my way. I didn't have a whole lot of white, black or what have you arguments. We went to the post office, we got our mail. No mail was delivered at that time. My daddy was 00:25:00one of the few blacks who had a postal box as long as I can remember at the post office. So, sure some of the things and some people who were colored endured I didn't.

HELFAND: OK, I want -- one last question.

M1: Starting to have problems with the laviler.

HELFAND: Really, like what?

M1: (inaudible)

HELFAND: Sure. Stop it, stop it. Listen, could you describe -- your daddy worked in the mill. Just be nine years old and describe for me what the mill village looked like or what, you know, did you go in and work with your daddy? Did you go in and see him working? I just need something mill village-y from you.

NEELY: Basically, when I think about what we did with my daddy working and a lot of times working from eight to five, we carried his lunch to him. We were not allowed inside the gate, but we carried a lunch right to the gate and he would 00:26:00come out and get that lunch. And usually mama would fix lunch in what they call a lunch bucket and it was usually a large bucket that they had emptied lard out of, a three-pound bucket or whatever, and that would be his lunch. And to actually get inside the mill, we were not allowed inside the gate but we could stand out and see them unloading trucks, see 'em walking backwards and forward across what they call "the race." That's where they dump some of the -- the debris from the plant. But as far as going into the plant, we didn't. The company owned a company store at that time. So that's where we young people would go buy a cookie or a soda, but hang out there sometime because some of the workers would come up there and eat lunch right near what they call the company store. Also in the mill town there was one drug store and one 00:27:00combination cafe and market -- city market. City cafe.

HELFAND: And did you grow up thinking you were going to work in the mill? Was that something that was assumed?

NEELY: Most of us thought that we would end up working there and for a short period I did, but my daddy had visions. He wanted us to have what he called enough education to get out where we perhaps could make what he called a decent living without having to work so hard for it. So he sent us away to school.

HELFAND: I think we did it. Thank you very much.

M1: Anything that you feel you left out that needs to be said?

NEELY: I would like to say that this is an opportunity to pay tribute to the people who made progress possible in a town like Cooleemee.

M1: Room tone.

(break in audio 00:28:04 - 00:28:49)

M1: End tone. OK.

NEELY: Cooleemee, North Carolina, March 9, 1934. Honorable Hugh Johnson. Dear 00:29:00Sir, as an employee of the Irving Cotton Mill Company, Cooleemee, North Carolina. I feel disposed to inform you of the following. Around 50 colored people worked for the above mentioned company, some in outside work and some working the cloth room department and some in the cotton house and draw for their labor $9 per week for 40 hours. We are under the impression that we should draw $12 a week under the code as practically all these men have been working for this company for a long time. It is not our desire to cause any trouble in this matter, but if we are entitled to more wages under the code, then we desire you to have your representative to check up on the above company and see that we get our rights. This is an anonymous letter and it's signed 00:30:00by employees of the cotton mill company, Cooleemee, North Carolina.

HELFAND: What about the X?

NEELY: And it's signed with an X indicating that it is an anonymous letter. No personal signature.

HELFAND: Tell me what you think an X, you know, what -- people signed with X's back then a lot. You know, this is even a tentative X.

M1: So just read the last couple lines and talk about that.

NEELY: It is our desire not to cause any trouble in this matter, but if we are entitled to more wages under the code, then we desire you to have your representative to check up on the above company and see that we get our rights. And this is signed in the usual way in those days with an X denoting it is an anonymous letter.

M1: Whenever you're ready.

NEELY: Cooleemee is considered to be in the piedmont area of North Carolina. It is bounded on both sides by the Yadkin River. It is -- the closest town of any size is Salisbury, which is approximately 13 miles south of Cooleemee. Mocksville is the town seat --

HELFAND: OK. You're getting too specific. I just need it like, Cooleemee was a little mill town and it was all by itself, you know. Just something -- you don't have to get too specific with all the -- just, you know, it was a mill town in the middle of the -- I don't know. Maybe there's no other way to do either specific or general, but I don't need every little town, but I just need to know it was a mill town, it was shut off by --

NEELY: Cooleemee is a mill town and it is approximately 13 miles from Salisbury. The only store in Cooleemee at that time was the company store -- [G and F?] the company store to buy clothes and anything the G and F didn't have. Salisbury was the closest town if you needed a pair of shoes, a suit of clothes, or anything in dress wear, people usually ended up in Salisbury. And that was the closest people to do your shopping.

HELFAND: All right -- so it was a tiny -- it was just a mill town. That's all that was -- that was the only show in town, right? OK, and that's like -- that's all. I just need to sort of understand --

NEELY: At that time they only had one theater also. They had a theater all right in the same block as the store was. Cooleemee was a small town with one theater.

HELFAND: So we're just going to get an over the shoulder shot of the shot of you holding this letter and then we're totally done.

NEELY: "Cooleemee, North Carolina, March 9,1934. Honorable Hugh Johnson, Dear Sir, As an employee of the Irving Cotton Mill Company, Cooleemee, North Carolina. I feel disposed to inform you of the following. Around 50 colored people worked for the above mentioned company, some in outside work and some working the cloth room department and some in the cotton house and draw for their labor $9 per week for 40 hours. We are under the impression that we should draw $12 per week under the code as practically all these men have worked for this company for a long time. It is not our desire to cause any trouble in this matter, but if we are entitled to more wages under the code, then we desire 00:34:00you to have your representative to check up on the above company and see that we get our rights." Signed employee of the Irving Cotton Mill Company with an X. Cooleemee, North Carolina, anonymous letter.

(break in audio 00:34:23 - 00:35:02)

HELFAND: Say about my daddy. Remember you said, the only thing I knew was that he (inaudible).

KATHY LAMB: Yeah, OK. I'm going to have to ad lib this, huh? OK, ready? OK. The (inaudible) when my dad was eight in 1934. I knew it was after his birthday and so I started September 1st since his birthday was the day after. Um, there's a lot in here about the strike starting, walk outs.

HELFAND: You know what? If you don't want to say anything you don't have to. Just let it come naturally. I'm just going to -- basically we're just going to let [Mikey?] take pictures of you looking at things, OK?

LAMB: OK. Sometimes I have to stop and move this thing up and down. There is an ad in the paper. And the merchants congratulating all of them for sticking to their jobs instead of going out on strike. And this got all of the merchants who paid for the ad at the bottom of the page.

(pause 00:36:30 - 00:40:12)

[Silence]

[Silence]

[Silence]

[Silence]

LAMB: Wow, within three to four minutes there was six dead. Nobody knowed whofired the first shot. And the police say the firing was off of both sides.

(pause 00:41:00 - 00:41:30).

HELFAND: If you want to read some out loud.

LAMB: "The Sherrif W.A.[Clamp?] was in the midst of the short-lived fight, he quotes while standing in the middle of the crowd. There were 250 or 300 all told, I guess, he said. Workers and strikers had been arguing for about an hour. We were watching the situation and doing all we could to quiet it. I was holding one of the workers to keep him from getting at some of the strikers who had come up to stop the mill from running. There were lots of words passed. Suddenly, the first bit of fighting I saw was a man knocked down. I think he 00:42:00was an officer, I don't know who hit him. Then the firing started. I don't know who shot first. I don't know all the men out there and know only a few women. In a minute it seemed everybody was shooting. Bullets kicked up around my feet. They were shooting pistols, rifles and shotguns. From what I could learn all the men killed were strikers. Many of the wounded were strikers. Maybe one or two workers were hurt, but we haven't been able to check up. So there were many hurt, only a little bit left after the shooting. The firing lasted just a couple of minutes. There really wasn't time to do much of anything because it stopped almost as quickly as it started. I was lucky to get out of it alive. People all around and shooting and bullets [sang?] up around my body. One woman, I don't know her name, got a flesh wound in the arm. Several other strikers were pretty badly hurt. Then when the shooting stopped the strikers started running away. In a minute or so all the strikers had 00:43:00disappeared and only some of the workers were left. They walked around while we picked up the dead and some of the wounded. To show you how fast things happened, when the shooting stopped I still had hold of the man I was holding when the thing started. It wasn't more than a minute or so, I guess. The sheriff said the inquest would be conducted Monday afternoon that in the meantime the situation was quiet." Here's an eye witness thing here. This is from the guy who first got hit. Yeah, I can't see that. There.

(pause 00:43:49 - 00:44:45)

M1: Can you move the screen around a little?

LAMB: [Move?] it back and forth?

M1: Whatever you were doing down there.

LAMB: OK.

(pause 00:44:57 - 00:45:17)

LAMB: Here's the union side of it. Here it says, "Union men didn't have a chance. They were shot down like a dog. They fled from the armed mob which attacked them without just cause. The unionists went to the mill on a peaceful mission and unarmed they were met with a burst of gunfire, which killed six and 00:46:00wounded scores." They're arming them after they got inside.

HELFAND: Mikey, come over here. Are you ready (inaudible)?

LAMB: OK? Look at this here. It says, "The people snuck in the mill. It started at 5:45."

M1: Sorry.

LAMB: OK. It says, "There was no fire arm with the union and the first gun they saw was a shot gun. Then a man named Johnson who was a non-union worker and they -- the unionists took it away from him when he pointed it at the squad of men. The weapon was loaded upon examination with three or four shells and there was some in his pocket. Inside the mill threw [picker?] sticks down on 00:47:00non-unionists who were being kept from entering the mill by the unionists. All of a sudden armed men in front of the mill started shooting. Union members shot down as they fled. They were retreating when the firing started. Lee Cropper was shot a second time as he lay wounded on the ground, I am told he did not -- I did not see this, however. Women and children were not spared by the bullets. Bobby [Balcom?], eight, was wounded in the fleshy part of his lower leg. Mrs. Balcom was shot in the shoulder and Mrs. Lois McClain in the elbow. The Honea Path past police took part in the shooting. I saw Chief George Page and 00:48:00patrolman Charlie Smith and E.T. [Case?] standing in front of the mill with guns. Men stationed on the second story of the mill who took part in the firing. It's a wonder to me that more folks weren't killed in wounding than there was. I suppose most of the shooters were so excited they didn't take careful aim. I came to Anderson to tell you just -- just to clear up some misunderstandings. We union men did not go to the mill this morning looking for trouble. We were not armed. If the non-union workers had just gone off and not tried to enter the mill as we asked them to, there would be six less dead men in Honea Path tonight." That's what really upsets me that people didn't work in there and they got killed. It's useless, senseless. You go shooting children in the street, it's ridiculous. Oh, this way.

M1: Go backwards anyways.

LAMB: OK. You want me to make it bigger?

HELFAND: Let's see what it looks like from here.

LAMB: OK, now what do you want me to do.

HELFAND: Um, I want you to go through it, let it pass by, slowly let us see something, you know, like a headline. Let's start again from the top. Let that play, let that sit for a little while and start to move it and, you know, you can interrupt it a little bit.

LAMB: OK.

(pause 00:50:38 - 00:51:30)

HELFAND: You can read out the headline.

LAMB: "Industry labor dig in for textile strike, September 3rd."

HELFAND: You can read some of those out loud.

LAMB: OK. "Union leaders predict more shutdowns. Anderson textile mills and operations face a strike." This is a National Guardsman in front of a mill.

HELFAND: Can you read strikers in South Carolina?

LAMB: OK. Is you ready? "Strikers in South Carolina are pushing efforts to close plants determined (inaudible) to close mills resuming operations yesterday. Labor leaders claiming many joining them in Greenville." Ready? 00:53:00"September 5th, 1934. Strikers making [drives?] on textile mills now running. More troops called in the state with tension increasing. Strike gaining in force [Sloan] is not alarmed. Union labor leaders are claiming 85 percent will walk out."

(pause 00:53:21 - 00:54:09)

HELFAND: (inaudible)

LAMB: That was a baseball team. They had a baseball team in the sports section.

HELFAND: That's OK. (inaudible)

LAMB: Where back to that?

HELFAND: Yeah.

LAMB: I'm not seeing it.

HELFAND: You just passed it.

LAMB: Yeah.

HELFAND: In the middle of all this they were playing baseball?

LAMB: Mm-hmm.

HELFAND: Can you talk about that just a bit?

LAMB: Let's make sure that was -- let's see. Yeah, it's the Anderson 00:55:00County Textile League. (inaudible) was a [male?]. [One, ten, nine?].

HELFAND: Does it say the date in there?

LAMB: Uh, September 6,1934.

HELFAND: OK, so why don't you say that -- say the date and mention that they're playing baseball in the middle of the strike.

LAMB: Um, Thursday morning, September 6,1934. (inaudible) beat [Chicola?] ten to nine in a baseball game, in the championship. Let's see.

HELFAND: What do you think about this happening at the same time as the strike?

LAMB: It's weird.

HELFAND: Could you say they're having a baseball game while the strike is going on?

LAMB: It's strange that they could even think about playing ball with all this stuff going on. They're probably non-union people. I always found that 00:56:00usually people that play on the company teams are company people. They probably figured the company was going to do something extra special for them for playing ball.

(pause 00:56:19 - 00:57:11)