Walter Montgomery Jr. Interview 2

00:00:00

HELFAND: -- [attempting to assess?]...

M1: -- uh, media.

HELFAND: The media changes? A media, uh...

M1: OK. It's possible, here...

HELFAND: Uh, well, uh, yeah. I guess one o -- uh, one thing that, uh, we -- we've been trying to understand a little bit is just, (clears throat) uh, a little bit... Uh, [you could?], uh...?

M1: No. This...

HELFAND: OK.

M1: Slower.

HELFAND: OK. In terms of, uh, the -- the textile industry at the time, in 1934, uh, and their relationship to the governors and the pol -- and the politics, when the strike happened, I know that they were very, very upset that all these workers were going out on strike. And I know that, in N -- in South Carolina, they called out the National Guard, and really used the Guard. Could you talk about the -- you know, the relationship between the mill industry and, you know, 00:01:00local government or state government and how they worked with each other?

MONTGOMERY: Well, I don't ever recall having any problems with our governor or any o' the congressman, of any kind, uh, any --

HELFAND: Uh...

MONTGOMERY: -- any problems.

HELFAND: So I if there had been a -- a problem with, uh -- with all these workers, uh, you know, starting a strike like they did, would you -- would it be easy for the textile industry to be able to call up the governor and say, "Help us, you gotta deal with this"?

MONTGOMERY: I never did call the governor to ask for any help, myself. So I don't know, uh, about that. I know that I talked to the sheriff, about furnishing deputies to come over here. I never paid anything extra, at all. But 00:02:00he would always, uh, have a few deputies over here, durin' the strike. And I think it kept order. And I remember Sheriff Henry was a very dynamic person. And he wouldn't hesitate to say, "Arrest that man." He wouldn't hesitate to do that. But he -- they'd have to be doing something. He just didn't go and pick somebody out.

HELFAND: And what happened in your mill village, during the time of the (clears her throat) strike? What happened to the workers who were striking who lived in the houses?

MONTGOMERY: Well, that's where -- that's where we felt like people should be protected, you see. We didn't want somebody who was working in the mills, living in our houses here, going to work -- and having somebody who live in one of our houses or not live in one of our house coming throwing rocks at 'em and th -- and, uh, knocking out a window or something of that kind. We had -- uh, so I had some people tell me about being threatened, you know, and s -- doing 00:03:00something to their automobile or puncturing the car's, uh, tires, things of that kind. But they were all minor things.

HELFAND: Did you ever have to ask...? Did any of your employees who were living in the houses also join the union?

MONTGOMERY: Oh, yes. We had some join the un -- some of our employees.

HELFAND: And were any of those who didn't get to go back work -- live in the houses?

MONTGOMERY: Yes. Uh, yeah. And I don't know that we'd sold our houses -- that -- we hadn't sold our houses, at that time. I -- I don't remember this, when we sold the house -- But I'd be glad to get this information for you, when it was. But I think it was many years later, in the 1950s, say. And the strike you're talkin' about was 1930s.

00:04:00

HELFAND: So did they have to leave the village? If the -- if they lived in the houses and they'd been working in the mill and they joined the union in 1934, what woulda happened to them in the village?

MONTGOMERY: We never put anybody out of a house. I'm sure o' that. It's, uh... I'd -- I just -- I'd like to check this but I can't recall anybody ever being put out of a house, who lives in one of our houses, because he's a member o' the union. I'm sure we had people living in our houses that were members o' the union. I'm sure o' that. I don't think we ever put anybody out of a house. I know that we had some people that were very prejudiced against the union, also. [It's?] like they were prejudiced, uh, both ways, for the union and against the union. But, uh, I -- trying to be fair. That's all that I can say, that, uh... But this is hindsight on my part now, I guess.

00:05:00

M2: You mentioned, of the 40 or 50 people, uh, that were -- uh, that were fired, you had to take 14 of them back? Uh, with the other, uh -- other, uh, 26 or 36 workers, were they living in S -- houses in Spartan Mills? And did they have to leave because of that?

MONTGOMERY: Uh, that's what I don't know, you see. I just don't. I don't know how to answer that question

HELFAND: Uh, I think you answered that question.

MONTGOMERY: Uh...

HELFAND: (laughs)

MONTGOMERY: Yes, uh.

HELFAND: I think you did. Uh, do you have anything else -- do you have any other vivid memories during the strike? Do you remember driving through South Carolina or visiting with other mill owners or checking out the -- you know, other mills in other parts o' the state or just...

MONTGOMERY: No. No, I don't. Uh... What I'd like to do is get these -- 00:06:00the pictures out to show you. And if y -- th -- anything that comes up --

HELFAND: I'd love that.

M2: Mm-hmm.

MONTGOMERY: -- that you might, uh, ask me to come back and ask me more questions -- you see.

M1: Can you just try to tell us about your -- more about your feelings about the New Deal and how you really felt about that?

MONTGOMERY: About what, now?

M1: The New Deal?

MONTGOMERY: About the -- uh, about the New Deal.

M1: The New Deal. And what -- New Deal --

HELFAND: Roosevelt and the New Deal.

M1: -- and how it felt to you?

MONTGOMERY: Uh, see... Well, I just don't feel that I... I just remember that Mr. Roosevelt -- and hearing my parents and other people talk about the New Deal. I got the impression that Mr. Roosevelt was for -- uh, he believed in -- in spreading the wealth, perhaps, more. I don't -- I don't, uh --

HELFAND: Uh...

00:07:00

MONTGOMERY: -- know how to say just what's in my mind, uh, wh -- or how to express. But, uh, I looked upon him as somebody who, uh, if a person worked hard -- and he have a right to his opinion -- and that, uh, Mr. -- Mr. Roosevelt wanted to be sure that the person who didn't have a education was properly treated -- which I would understand. But, uh, I -- I think he wanted to be sure that the -- that everybody had an equal opportunity. And he was determined to see that was done, you see. And I just think that he was -- was a wonderful president, myself, personally, up to the time that he got sick, when it was, uh... It -- it -- I always thought he made a big mistake in, uh, settling the -- the war period. I was, uh, over myself, makin' a survey, and 00:08:00got a telegram from Jimmy Burns. We went over there to distribute 110,000 bales of cotton. And while I was over there doing that, we were told not to be too efficient about it, that they hadn't had any cotton in several years, they'd been runnin' [Fibran?], which is artificial fiber. And so we would go to mills in Belgium and France and parts of Germany...

HELFAND: How did you, um -- how did? When -- when he started to -- to tell the, uh, working people, particularly uneducated working people, that he was going to try to spread the wealth and give them more rights and he put that in place...

MONTGOMERY: Uh...

HELFAND: Uh, he gave them the National Recovery Act.

MONTGOMERY: Yes.

HELFAND: How did you feel about that, when he really started to put the -- those -- those ideas in place and gave working people more rights, like that?

MONTGOMERY: Well, I guess I thought that I was trying to my best by furnishing employment. I do -- I don't know. I tried to furnish jobs. I think that's 00:09:00pretty important, to do that. Uh, I don't... I tried to do a part about education, uh, and scholarships and civic responsibilities. I th -- always thought we were f -- good citizens, you see. But, uh, there again, none of us do, perhaps, all we should do.

HELFAND: Did you put a blue eagle in the windows of your mill? Do you remember putting the blue eagle up? During the New Deal. They asked all mill owners, people in business to put a blue eagle up.

MONTGOMERY: No, I don't understand what you're asking. I really don't. I don't --

HELFAND: Can we stop a se --

MONTGOMERY: -- I cannot remember wha --

HELFAND: OK.

(break in tape)

HELFAND: And I found a -- uh, I had seen an old letter that someone wrote, that, uh, I think mentioned that your mill had a blue eagle in it.

00:10:00

MONTGOMERY: Yes. We got five Army/Navy [E's?] at Beaumont, I mean, for -- durin' World War II.

HELFAND: Oh, no, no, no, no, no.

MONTGOMERY: Uh...

HELFAND: I meant, uh, during Roosevelt's administration, when he started the New Deal. Roosevelt's -- uh, the National Recovery Act, they handed out blue eagles --

MONTGOMERY: Yeah.

HELFAND: -- to, um, industry, for them to put in the windows --

MONTGOMERY: Yes.

HELFAND: -- to say, "Yes, we are members of the New Deal. We're part of the blue eagle."

MONTGOMERY: Yes. I just don't remember about that.

M2: Well, uh, Mr. Montgomery, you said that -- earlier that you had voted against, uh, Roosevelt. Um, I guess you voted for Hoover, in '32. Did you, uh...?

MONTGOMERY: I don't believe I voted against him. I just don't bel -- I heard that he was a -- he was a... What --? Uh, I heard, always, he was very liberal, on the liberal side -- New Deal. And, uh, I can't -- I don't know as I ever voted against him, myself. I just don't know -- I don't recall that.

00:11:00

M2: Did you not support...?

MONTGOMERY: Who -- who ran against him? I couldn't te --

M2: Hoover.

MONTGOMERY: Who?

M2: Uh, it was, uh, Herbert Hoover and --

MONTGOMERY: W -- No, I never vo --

M2: -- uh, Franklin Roosevelt.

MONTGOMERY: Uh...

M2: Did you support Hoover or Roosevelt, in '32?

MONTGOMERY: Who? The...

HELFAND: Uh...

MONTGOMERY: Roosevelt or -- or who?

HELFAND: I have one last question. And then we really want to see your pictures. Could you -- could you describe growing up in...? You di -- Did you grow up near the mill village or did you grow up...? Was your home near the mill village? Or was your home near the mill -- when you were growing up, as a kid? As a child. Could -- could you talk about, you know, be -- growing up as a child, maybe going to work with your father? Did he take you into the mill, when you were a little boy?

MONTGOMERY: I don't remember. I just don't remember anything about the... I just never did... (laughs) That's going back a long time, ya see. And I just d -- frankly... I wish I could answer your question. But I don't 00:12:00remember anything about it.

HELFAND: OK. Uh, do -- so di -- did you help set up a mill village in your community, when you got older? I'm sure your father h -- bought houses and put the mill village together, uh, when he started the mill. Is that right?

(pause)

MONTGOMERY: I just don't know how to -- how to reply.

HELFAND: OK.

MONTGOMERY: I really don't.

HELFAND: Uh...

MONTGOMERY: Because I don't remember about it, you see.

HELFAND: OK.

MONTGOMERY: I used to hear my father talk about -- and, uh, when they'd have their Sunday... It's -- I was outta college then. I can remember how they used to talk about the textile industry and how we needed help in Washington and, uh, we needed something to be done to cont -- But this was -- this... Uh, 00:13:00I didn't get active in that, at all, until many years later, you see. And, uh, that's what I got the letter from Mr. [Engel?] telling me he looked up himself. And he gave me the percentage that the tariffs were in 1913 and what -- the money that we could get now from tariffs. And I've wondered why our government didn't do more --

(break in tape)

(background activity throughout; pause)

MONTGOMERY: Uh, tha --

HELFAND: Did you say this was your son's idea?

MONTGOMERY: Ya see this, uh -- what... Yeah. Uh... Uh, you want to... You see?

00:14:00

(pause)

MONTGOMERY: This is my son.

HELFAND: Oh, that's your s --

MONTGOMERY: Uh, this is the -- my... That, uh... So.

M1: I...

MONTGOMERY: Right here. Uh... This is my s -- this is my secretary, Pat [Tavia?]. She has...

M1: Is, uh...

MONTGOMERY: Uh...

HELFAND: Hi, uh.

F2: Hi!

HELFAND: (inaudible) [or, uh?]...

MONTGOMERY: Uh, there's my... Uh, you know, I just hate for you to see my desk. Uh, this is... (laughs) You see how torn up my papers are, to -- now. I 00:15:00think you -- I think they're gonna jump on me, by all (laughs) this picture-taking, you see, that's go -- But, uh, I j -- just have seen enough now.

HELFAND: Where are your pictures? You go --

MONTGOMERY: Uh...

HELFAND: -- do you have your photographs?

MONTGOMERY: I wa -- I want to get the pictures and bring 'em to you and show you, you see. That's what I was going to do.

HELFAND: You could show 'em to us here.

MONTGOMERY: Yeah. Well, uh... I don't... I had rather show ya these pictures in another place, really. Uh...

HELFAND: OK.

MONTGOMERY: I'd rather show 'em to ya back there. You understand?

HELFAND: OK.

MONTGOMERY: Uh, I'd rather do that. But I wanted to show ya... I don't see what... I really...

M: Uh...

00:16:00

MONTGOMERY: Uh, this picture here -- this picture... Ya see? This picture here. Uh...

HELFAND: Are you in it?

MONTGOMERY: Now, I got other pictures.

HELFAND: And that's a pic -- that's a picture, uh...

MONTGOMERY: Now, I wanted to really show you some other pictures, you see.

HELFAND: OK.

MONTGOMERY: And I -- I just really don't want to do it here.

HELFAND: OK. Let's take them in the other room.

MONTGOMERY: So if you don't mind.

HELFAND: Not at all. But let's not bend, uh...

(pause)

00:17:00

MONTGOMERY: This is what I really... This is a picture, here -- this is a picture, here, that, uh, was taken in 1906. This is the picture I was tryin' to explain to you. And I... This was -- this is my Uncle Victor Montgomery. This is Leroy Springs, Elliot Springs's father. Yeah. And this is Captain Smythe. I don't whether you heard o' Captain Smythe. This is my father, right here. And I tried to put these down.

HELFAND: Uh, they asked you to write names on it, for -- f -- they asked you to identify everybody?

MONTGOMERY: Uh, see, this picture here is, uh, taken of this. Now, the -- I can't identify... You see, these written here, the names, I've been trying 00:18:00to identify 'em here. And I cou --

HELFAND: Uh, who are all these --

MONTGOMERY: Uh...

HELFAND: -- who -- who...? What is this is a picture of?

MONTGOMERY: This is a picture of South Caroline Manufacturers Association meeting, in 1928 -- or 1906 -- Manufacturer -- Association. But [the -- was?] -- when I thought it was organized 1926. You understand? So this was an Association meeting -- but the first meeting that I ever saw was organized. And all these people are dead now, see? This is Mr. McKissick. This is Bubba McKissick, from Greenville, his father. But... Now, I'm trying -- as I tried to explain to you here -- trying to...

00:19:00

HELFAND: Why don't we take these, uh...? Uh...

MONTGOMERY: So this...

M1: Uh, that's OK. You can just... Uh, we'll...

MONTGOMERY: Oh, uh...

M1: You keep goin'.

MONTGOMERY: OK. Sh --

00:20:00

(pause; machine noise; pause)

(break in tape)

MONTGOMERY: But I haven't been able to do that. And all these other people --

M1: Yeah, all the...

MONTGOMERY: -- some of 'em, I've heard my father --

HELFAND: Yeah.

M1: Why don't you show us...?

MONTGOMERY: -- talk about some o' these people, Mr. Orr, Mr. Co --

HELFAND: Could you -- could you tell me again who this whole organization is and maybe...?

MONTGOMERY: Uh...

HELFAND: Could you tell me again how -- you know, that these were all textile, you know...?

M1: OK!

MONTGOMERY: Now, what I've been trying to do is to find out and know just where they -- uh, who they were, to put on a sheet here, so I could identify. Uh, this was done by somebody here, who thinks that they know 'em. But I'm not positive, uh, myself. And I'm trying to get somebody else to tell me that 00:21:00this man's name is -- is Coleman, here, if that's case, you see.

HELFAND: Uh, where's your dad? Who are the people that you do know?

MONTGOMERY: Uh...

HELFAND: Where's your father?

MONTGOMERY: Here's my father, right here. Right here. Uh, you see, now, this name, Mon -- Montgomery, right here, Walter Montgomery. That's him, right there. And here are these other people. And Parker, he was a big leader. Uh...

HELFAND: Uh...

MONTGOMERY: Now which one is he down here? I don't know which one o' these...

HELFAND: Now, s -- now, d -- ?

MONTGOMERY: But I know Parker was a big man, here, in -- in the textile industry.

HELFAND: So which...?

MONTGOMERY: And Mr. -- Mr. Gossett was another one. Mr. Lucas. He was the -- ran -- man that ran the Laurens Cotton Mills. Mr. Alf Moore. He was a Spartanburg man. And, uh, I knew him. But I didn't know him at all to 00:22:00recognize him in any o' these pictures. When I knew him, he was much older, you see. So I -- (laughs) trying to take on something that I don't know as I can do anything with.

M: (laughs)

MONTGOMERY: You understa -- ?

HELFAND: Uh, you might one of the only people who can do it, though. Uh, huh? Now which mills did some o' these folks run, you think?

MONTGOMERY: Well... But there's -- fine looking group of people. See? This picture here, so I'm told, was taken in -- see, this is, uh -- that's -- in Richmond, in Richmond, Virginia, this picture here, this... American Cotton Manufacturer -- This is American Cotton Manufacturers, a national association.

00:23:00

HELFAND: Is your dad in there?

MONTGOMERY: I haven't been able to find him. I just... I... So I haven't been able to recognize anybody in this picture here. This was taken in 1911. You understand? See that, May the 12th -- May the 18th, 1911.

HELFAND: And these men represented cotton mills from all over the country?

MONTGOMERY: Yes, that's right. This was their fifteenth annual convention -- fifteenth. So that meant that, according to this, they were -- uh, they organized in 1896 -- when... Uh, you see? So i -- it's sad, to me, that, uh 00:24:00-- that no information is about, uh... Mr. Jacobs, I've been in touch with him. He is a friend o' mine. He had a publishing company. He wrote books. Uh, so I've been trying to get picture -- (break in tape) one or two other pictures here that I...

HELFAND: How many mills do you think that whole association, you know, was running at the time? How many mill workers do you think they employed, when you look at this picture?

MONTGOMERY: Uh, there was... But, uh, I've got some figures to... I think there were over four hundred -- over 450 mill. Uh... Northern and Southern... Most o' the business, you know, was -- had been in the North. This textile 00:25:00industry started in the South, in 19 -- 1880 -- 1880. Packard was built in 1885, Spartan Mills in 1990. So.

HELFAND: Belg --

MONTGOMERY: This is, uh, pictures, uh, with the [Stebelinks?], in Belgium. The Stebelinks make the Picanol looms. And this, uh -- this is pictures that I took myself and put 'em together.

HELFAND: Uh...

MONTGOMERY: This is Mr. Roy Crabtree. He was head of mills. This is on fishin' trips. Uh, this is Joe Lanier, here. He was head o' West Point. And this man here is George Lanier, his brother. He was head of Mount Vernon Mills. Uh, this is Bud [Bureen?]. He was president -- mill down in Moultrie, Georgia. This is Joe Lanier. That's me. This is Bubba McKissick. This is 00:26:00Mr. Stebelink. He's the -- he's a big loom builder, Picanol looms.

M1: Ca -- can you point to yourself, again?

MONTGOMERY: Hm?

M1: Can you show us yours-yourself again?

HELFAND: That's, uh... Who are you?

MONTGOMERY: Uh, let's see. That's me right here. Uh... This is Joe Lanier. And this -- this is Mr. Stebelink. He was the president of Picanol loom company. This is George Lanier, Mount Vernon, Joe Lanier.