GEORGE STONEY: We were just (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) --
JANET IRONS: There you go.
STONEY: OK, let's go. We're rolling. OK.
IRONS: OK, Mr. Cox, tell me a little bit more about what your father did, when
he was a farmer?BURNS COX: He raised a crop of corn --
STONEY: Start off by saying, "my father."
COX: Oh, my father was a one farmer crop man. He had his mule, and his --
STONEY: Start off again, your father was a one-mule man.
COX: One-mule man.
STONEY: Start it now.
COX: My father was a one-mule farmer. He raised corn, cotton, potatoes for the
family feed, and mama and them made their gardens, and that's what they lived off of.IRONS: Did they make a good living for themselves?
COX: They made an eating living, yeah, but they didn't -- they didn't make
no money. They made -- they made their living, of course. They raised their own hogs, their chickens, cows, they had everything. 00:01:00IRONS: OK. Next thing we want to do was talk a little bit about some of the
things that happened during the strike. Uh, you told us a story about going and sitting on the railroad tracks during the '34. Can you remember that story?COX: Yeah.
IRONS: OK.
COX: The company was wanting to get some [cart?] out, and we decided it wasn't
coming on. So, some of the men, even some of the Goodyear workers come over, and sat down on railroad track, and the train wouldn't run over them. They went, backed out. They didn't pull in. We stopped them.IRONS: Stopped the material from coming out of the mill?
COX: That's right, right.
IRONS: All right, good. Um, what about, uh -- you said that the pickets would
line up with baseball bats, but no guns.COX: Everybody on the picket line -- I said "everybody," not everybody.
They had sticks, and stuff like that. As (inaudible) said, I didn't see a gun down there. He -- maybe there was some, but I didn't see 'em. But all the 00:02:00picket was designated at five or six different places to picket. I never stayed at one particular place -- a while, you know. Sometimes I'd go up just to gate, some over this gate, some (inaudible) the other. But I moved around on the picket line, all. And our object around the picket line is to see that nobody didn't go in, and nobody didn't come out.IRONS: And what about the bosses?
COX: The bosses was allowed to go in.
IRONS: Did they carry any guns?
COX: I don't know what they did on the -- on the strike in '34, but I do
know in the strike of '50, every one of 'em was armed with a pistol bought for 'em by the company. Of course, my brother-in-lawn was a darn boss up there. And they bought him a brand new pistol.IRONS: But now, you don't know about '34. As far you know --
COX: As far as I know, I don't know whether they was armed, or unarmed, or what.
IRONS: But you never really had any trouble with them trying to get in?
00:03:00COX: No, no.
IRONS: OK. OK.
COX: Now, on the other strike (inaudible), while we're on the subject, we only
have a few picket at each gate. Nobody didn't want to go out there and go out. The company didn't want to move anything in and move anything out. Now they did have a shipment of cloth hey wanted to get out. And they negotiate through the International Union to let the train go in there and two or three carloads of cloth into designated [unover?] stuff, and army stuff, and we let them do that.IRONS: OK, OK. Let's go back to '34, and let's think about when the
strike was over. And what I want to do was call out some names, and if they're people that you can remember, and happened to them, uh, at the end of the strike, that would great, OK? You ready?COX: Yeah.
IRONS: Uh, Joe [Hale?].
COX: Joe Hale was blackballed. Completely blackballed.
IRONS: Why?
00:04:00COX: Because (inaudible), they called -- the company called him "loudmouth."
"Little Joe Blackball."IRONS: Why did they call him a loudmouth?
COX: (inaudible) a little bit of a short fellow, and he carried a baseball bat.
IRONS: Was he a member of the union?
COX: He was a member of the union.
IRONS: Uh-huh. Was that why he was blackballed?
COX: I don't know, what (inaudible) to him, but he just, he couldn't get a
job. He was blackballed everywhere.IRONS: What about JP Hollins?
COX: JP Hollins, that's Clarence's brother.
IRONS: Jim Hollins, I think --
COX: Jim Hollins. During the strike, he was one of the officers of the union.
IRONS: That's right.
COX: He didn't have no trouble going back to work.
IRONS: OK. EE Ballard?
00:05:00COX: That was the old man, Ballard. Best of my remembrance, he, at that time
was running his mill with a [ropes?], you know, big-end steam engines, and the old man Ballard run one number one machine, -- number one machine and a filter, (inaudible) run the other one. It's two, two of the mechanics (inaudible). Now the boy that you talked to, that's his daddy.IRONS: Says here that we worked at the Dwight plant for 20 years when the strike
took place.COX: That was the old man Ballard, yeah.
IRONS: And, he applied for his job twice when the strike was called off, and was
not reinstated.COX: Right.
IRONS: Does that sound right to you?
COX: Well, did his boy verify the story for you?
IRONS: Ah, we're going to find out, we haven't, uh --
COX: Well, his boy can verify it.
IRONS: OK, OK. Um, now Carl Ballard, that is his son? That's related to the Ballards.
00:06:00COX: It was a bunch of the Ballards, up there I don't know where. I talked to
him up here in the store here, two weeks ago, the Ballard boy. Not his daddy, but the Ballard boy. Now he's about as old as I am now.IRONS: OK, OK. What about Buck Brewster?
COX: What do you want?
IRONS: Well now, he was listed here as a person who didn't get his job back
after the strike, and I'm wondering if you can remember anything about what happened to him --COX: No --
IRONS: -- after the strike was over?
COX: -- I don't know, Buck -- I don't know what -- what's become of Buck
to tell ya that -- see, these people they didn't -- couldn't get a job back. They left town trying to find work and all.IRONS: OK.
COX: And I don't know where he left town or what, but --
IRONS: It says here, uh, he was re-employed for a few days since the strike was
called off, but his overseer came to him, and said that, "Mr. Moody has voted against you, and so you're cut out of a job." 00:07:00COX: Yeah.
IRONS: Who was Mr. Moody?
COX: Charles Moody was superintendent of the plant here.
IRONS: Said his work was then stretched out among the other workers, and he was
let go.COX: Yeah. I believe Buck worked in a [slasher room?], that's my remembrance.
IRONS: How about Andy Sewell?
COX: Andy Sewell? He was a -- he was [all through?] the union. I knew him.
IRONS: Do you know anything about what happened to him after the strike was over?
COX: No, I sure don't.
IRONS: Says, uh, he was discharged in, uh, October; the strike ended in
September, and uh, said that he was -- the, uh, overseer was, uh, Arnold Rogers? You remember him?COX: Arnold Rogers.
IRONS: A-- Arnold Rogers was the overseer, said that he was going to lay Sewell
off and bust the union up.COX: Arnold Rogers. You talked about a supervisor, huh?
00:08:00IRONS: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
COX: I was trying to think where Sewell worked at, was weave shop or what.
IRONS: Yeah, it doesn't say here where he worked. OK, um, how about JH Cornet?
COX: Cornet? Cornet?
IRONS: Cornet.
COX: Cornet. Which one?
IRONS: JH.
COX: There was a bunch of them Cornets, and I don't want to get 'em mixed up.
IRONS: Well now, let's see. Says he had been working for 30 years for Dwight
in 1934.COX: That was the old man Cornet.
IRONS: That was the old man.
COX: Old man Cornet, yeah.
IRONS: Yeah. What can you tell me about what happened to him after the strike?
COX: I don't know, he used to live right around the corner up here. I don't
know what -- what -- what he done.IRONS: OK. Says, uh, "Shortly before the strike, Mr. Cornet served on a
committee that called on the management trying to establish collective bargaining, and to get them to cease their discrimination against their employees, who were members of the union. Mr. Cornet was soon discharged soon 00:09:00after he served on this committee, and this was one of the reasons for the strike." So according to this, uh, "Before Mr. Cornet was discharged, Mr. Rogers, the overseer, told him, 'I have something to tell you.' He told Mr. Cornet that 'Mr. Little, the agent in charge of the plant says he isn't going to recognize the union, and so you're going to lose your job.' After the strike was called off, Mr. Cornet applied for his job back, and has never been reinstated." Does that sound right?COX: It sounds right.
IRONS: OK. How about Clyde Ware? He's still alive, is he?
COX: Yeah, he's still alive.
IRONS: Have you --
COX: They talked to him.
IRONS: Tell me, what happened to him after the strike was over?
COX: Well, as I say, I don't remember what everybody done, honey.
IRONS: We're trying to just jog your memory as best we can.
00:10:00COX: Well you see, everybody went their own way. Now Clyde hung around here, he
was running -- running different kinds of jobs; he'd done differently, (inaudible) in and out of the state and everything, on the go most of the time.IRONS: Is that right?
COX: Yeah. And he -- well, he talked to 'em. You know what he did.
IRONS: Now, according to, uh, what they say in the papers here, uh, says that
Clyde went to New York. Was that be the convention that the union had in New York?COX: We never had no convention. New York only -- [after?] we got organized?
IRONS: Yeah, yeah.
COX: Yeah.
IRONS: Right before the -- uh, right during the strike, as the strike was going on.
COX: Thirty-four?
IRONS: The general strike.
COX: If he went to New York, I don't know nothing about it.
IRONS: OK. Says here that he had been to New York, and therefore he hadn't
done the company any good, and so he couldn't work anymore. Sounds like he was blackballed.COX: Yeah.
IRONS: Yeah, OK.
COX: Well Clyde can give you his story.
IRONS: OK, well I think one -- one of the things we're doing is, uh, naming
00:11:00people to you that we're also going to go see. Um, [Emory?] Smith?COX: Emory Smith, he's dead and gone, and -- oh, I knew Emory.
IRONS: What do you remember about him?
COX: He was a good worker. Good union man.
IRONS: Was -- was he discharged after the '34 strike?
COX: Honey, I -- I couldn't tell you positive; I don't know.
IRONS: OK. Um --
STONEY: Go to the last --
IRONS: Sure. OK, what we want to do now is go back, uh, after the NRA came in,
and, uh, after the union was organized, some workers at the mill wrote complaints, letters of complaint to the federal government about how they were being treated, and we found copies of those letters, and some of them are folks that you knew. So, I wonder if you would like to try to read -- this is a letter from, uh, Andy Sewell. 00:12:00COX: You want me to read it out loud?
IRONS: Uh, that'd be great. As loud as you can.
COX: "This is to certify that I, A. Sewell, have been an employee with Dwight
Manufacturing Company for a period of three and a half year, as a carpenter shop man, and there was never complaint about my work. About July the 1st -- July the 8th, I joined the [local?] Union Textile Workers, and was elected president of the local --" that's right. "From then on, I could tell there was a difference in my foreman, A. Rogers," that was the boss of the mill, in the carpenter shop boss, Rogers was, and we talked about him a while ago, and I couldn't think it.IRONS: That's right.
COX: Rogers was his boss.
IRONS: OK, go ahead.
COX: "At this time I was working outside when I moved back to the shop, I took
the place of a man who my boss said could not do the work in the shop. At this 00:13:00time, there was 22 men in the gang, only three that had been longer than service than himself. My foreman, A. Rogers, told me three or four, that before I was the head of the union, I would be the first to be laid off About the 12th of October, I was laid off and ordered out of the company house, and they kept men in the shop that was only had been there about five months, and none of the union men, [brother-in-law?] of the foreman Rogers."IRONS: And what's the date on that letter?
COX: November the 22nd, 1933. Right.
IRONS: So that's real interesting. Sounds like, uh, he was discharged -- what
does that letter say to you?COX: Well he was trying to uphold for the people. Sewell was a good man.
00:14:00IRONS: And what happened to him?
COX: Now I don't know what went with Sewell. That's something I can't answer.
IRONS: OK. Want to try to read the next one? That was excellent. That was a
great reading.STONEY: I -- just do it, ask him again, and don't say, "Try to read," but
just ask to read.IRONS: Thank you. OK, um, I think the next one is going to be Suzy Reed. Read
that one. Start with the date.COX: "November 20th, 1933. This is to certify that I, Suzy Smith -- Suzy
Reed, have been an employee for Dwight Manufacturing Company a period of 22 years as a grader -- as a folder. Paul Perkin, my boss, had worked, checked for two days after, finding a mistake, he laid me off for good -- he laid me off for 00:15:00good when he only had been laying off some of the people for one week. Some of the offenses Mr. Roster stated that he was -- saw me in a Labor Day parade." She was in a cloth room. Paul Perkin was her boss, and I remember that.IRONS: OK. Let's read, uh, maybe, one or two more.
STONEY: Just, do you -- could you tell us about the Labor Day parade?
COX: Well we held it -- walked down [Wall Street?], [Kennybury?], just around.
STONEY: Did you have parades every Labor Day?
COX: No, not every Labor Day.
IRONS: Maybe that one was kind of special then.
COX: It was.
IRONS: Yeah. Were you in it?
COX: I don't remember whether I was or not.
IRONS: Well you were just married. You could think about it that way.
COX: OK, this is [DD Spicks?]. Do you remember him?
00:16:00IRONS: "November 20th, 1933. This is to certify that I, DD Spicks, have been
an employee for Dwight Manufacturing Company for a period of three years, and a carpenter of A. Rogers, my boss, and was talking one day, and he asked me if I was a member of the union. I told him I was, and that I was in the parade, Labor Day. From that date, he showed no difference, until he -- claiming that he wanted to cut force, after giving Dwight Manufacturing Company three years perfect satisfaction work, and he let me go, except -- kept men in my place who had only been there for three or four months." I would say that was a true statement, that's the way they done him.IRONS: Is that right?
COX: Yup.
IRONS: It makes sense to you?
COX: Yeah.
IRONS: OK, good.
00:17:00STONEY: I wonder -- let's do that again, just so that you can, uh, read it a
little more directly, OK? Just start again and read it. Because those letters are very -- the printing is so bad.IRONS: "November the 20th, 1933. This is to certify that I, GD Spicks, have
been an employee for Dwight Manufacturing Company for a period of three years, as a carpenter. A.A. Rogers, my boss, and I was talking about -- talking about the day he asked me if I was a member of the union. I told him I was. And that's what I was in -- that I was in the parade, the Labor Day parade. From that date showed, the difference until he claiming he wanted me out of the force, after giving me, Dwight Manufacturing Company, three years of perfect, 00:18:00satisfactory work, they said they let me go, and kept men in my place that had only been there for three or four months." That's the way -- that's the way they weaned them out.IRONS: Weaned out members of the union, you're saying?
COX: Yeah.
IRONS: Here's the last one.
COX: "November the 20th, 1933. This is to certify that I, Emory Smith, was
employed by Dwight Manufacturing Company for a period of 16 months prior to November 1st, '33. I was employed as a cleaner in the spinning department, spinning frames. I am 21 years old, and am a white man, and American. Gay Harris, my boss, claimed that my work had been insufficient the day before he 00:19:00laid me off. I stated to him at that time I realized I was wasting -- I was using laid off -- usually laid off because of membership and affiliation with the labor union of 1878 Union. About 10 days I was laid off, I was elected vice-president of our local union on Sunday, Saturday afternoon. After the election, I gave a short talk and an address on the square in Alabama (inaudible) in favor of the union. On Monday before I was laid off, (inaudible) Harris began to check my work, to find, and when he did find, I did not do (inaudible), stated that I would be seeing him again. On Tuesday following this 00:20:00Monday, I was told that I wanted to speak to him. He stated that he would see me later that day. After this passed, several times, my work did not stop to talk to him, and as he promised. On arriving at work the next day, he stated to me -- stated to me that my work was insufficient, and for me to go by the office and get my time." [Fred?] Emory, I know (inaudible).IRONS: Yeah great.
COX: Fred Emory, I knew him.
IRONS: I have -- one other thing that I wanted to talk to you about. Um, we
were talking about the end of the strike, and uh, how people had been doing, uh, in terms of getting food and groceries. By the time that, uh, Cox and Dean came and said it was time to go back, uh, how were people doing?COX: We was doing the best we could do, uh, what we could get. Nobody gave us nothing.
00:21:00IRONS: Do you think people could have stayed on strike a lot longer?
COX: I don't personally think it could have taken -- it took much longer. Now
they was willing. But after them meeting with the company and everything like that, they could not tolerate it.IRONS: Now, maybe you could tell us a little bit about the lessons that you feel
that you learned from this strike when you then went to try to organize in '42. Did you do some things different in '42?COX: We used the same phase in the '42 election that we used in the '30 --
'32 election, '31 election. We held (inaudible) members, we knew who they was. One gentleman was fired out and never got back, but we knew who to talk to, and who not to. And we commenced (inaudible) trying to get another union in. And when they got enough force, we knew it was (inaudible). Then we asked 00:22:00for help from the International Union. And they sent Herbie Williams in here to organize us. And that was the beginning of the Local 576.IRONS: Did ya'll go on strike at that time?
COX: Not the first time.
IRONS: You went on strike the second time?
COX: The second time and the third time.
IRONS: I see. Did you win those strikes?
COX: The first one, we won. And the second we won and lost.
IRONS: Tell me about when you went on strike the first time after the new union
came in. That was, uh --COX: The first time when we went on strike, had the new union come in, we had
pickets at the gates, but no -- no rough stuff, and everybody was observing the picket line. We had our own food shop. We had a store rented up here on [Tuscalucy?] We hauled meat, flour, coffee, lard, beans, potatoes, everything up 00:23:00here, and every week, we would give people the groceries that had (inaudible), [tool sack?]. We fed our people that time. Of course, the International Union was doing it. They was the one that was doing it.IRONS: Was that different from '34?
COX: Oh, that was different from '34, sure. We didn't get nothing in '34.
We fed our people in '34. And then going from there, up until this other strike, when we came back in off of this strike, we decided we needed some more help. Then we set up and got the company to deduct a quarter a week out of our payroll, and went into a trust fund, laid back for a strike fund, because we knew it was coming.IRONS: Was that different from '34?
COX: Huh?
IRONS: Was it different from '34 to lay up the strike fund that way?
COX: Yes it was. We prepared ourselves. And when we come out the last time in
'55 -- I believe it was '55 it went down -- we gathered up our money, and we had over $200,000. We called our people together and gave them a check every 00:24:00week. Of course we -- the strike didn't last but about three or four weeks, because it was -- propositioned us this. I don't mind telling this on record. People told us, go up there and get seven cents an hour raise, or else. That's it. And I was one of them on the committee. We went up there and argued with the company, (inaudible) seven cents, give it to. We said, "Our people want seven." "You won't get it." So we kept going back and forth, negotiating, negotiating. So the company finally told us, "That's it." And they said, "I'll tell you what now, if you force us to give you the raise, we're going to shut the damn mill down." They laid that to us. We went down there and called the union meeting at Steel Worker Hall, and we had 00:25:00every member (inaudible) outside (inaudible) picket everything. And me and [Mildred Hall?] and the other committees got up there and told the people just exactly what's going to happen. "Now you force us to go up there and demand that. Now here's what we're going to tell you is coming to you if you [keep?] (inaudible) that demand. The company said they would face -- had to be forced to give the seven cents, they were going to shut the damn mill down and move out of town." We told the people. "Now it's your choice." They took a vote and said, "Shut it down." Well down she went. That was it. When it started up -- started stopping up, they commenced laying it off, they went (inaudible), shutting 'em out, shutting it down. The company done, did exactly what they said they'd do, and the people said they (inaudible). They got what they wanted, but it didn't last.STONEY: How do you feel when you go to that shopping mall now?
00:26:00COX: Where?
IRONS: The shopping mall where they -- where they --
COX: Oh, up here?
IRONS: -- where the mill used to be?
COX: Sit here and looking for all that -- the old mill up here.
IRONS: Yeah. What do you think about all those changes?
COX: Well, it's been a -- it's been a betterment for this community here.
That old mill's been running, (inaudible) it had been organized by -- I don't know, the union has gotten, where now they can't do nothing with these companies. Union making no progress nowhere. They hurting everywhere, to my knowledge.IRONS: So you're -- you like those stores that are up there now?
COX: Oh, yeah, yeah. It's -- it's a beautification for the city, in all.
You've seen what the old mill looked like, didn't you?IRONS: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
COX: You see what that looked like now, paint the picture.
IRONS: Mm-hmm.
STONEY: Judy?
HELFAND: Um, Mr. Cox, you told me that when you back in for your job, management
00:27:00took to you aside and talked to you about -- and warned you that if there was another union, you'd have to go?COX: What's that now, Judy?
HELFAND: Uh, could you tell us about when you went back in to get your job after
the '34 strike, and what the -- the -- what management sat down and talked to you about?COX: He didn't -- they didn't sat down and talk to me, honey, about that at
all. Now the first time I went through, they told me to get my ass out, (inaudible) blame. "Get out there, we don't need you." The second time I went back there, they needed some doffers. So I walked in, and Bill [Ackley?], the man who run me out the first time, who was the overseer here, said, "Get out, Cox." [Ed Strong?] was the spinning room boss, he said, "Wait a minute, Bill," and him and Bill went over to talk, Ed told me, said, "Come on in first shift in the morning." That was it.STONEY: OK. That's fine. Thank you. OK.
CREW: Get some room tone.
CREW: Yes --
COX: You might have to cut that (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) --
00:28:00CREW: Can we just all kind of hold still for about ten seconds?
CREW: Half (inaudible) room tone.
CREW: Real still and real quiet for room tone.