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GEORGE STONEY: [06:23] -- going to start, I'm going to ask you to just say who
you are, where you live, and then tell us about that lamp. You ready, Jamie?CREW: We're rolling.
STONEY: Go, OK.
BALLARD: I am Melton Ballard. I live at 724 [Nafalooma?] Drive, Gadsden, Alabama.
STONEY: Could you tell us about that lamp?
00:07:00BALLARD: That lamp has been around our home since I was about eight year old.
Me and my sister would --STONEY: I'm going to stop you. Could you start off again saying that lamp has
been around since I was eight years old and I'm -- how old are you now? You see?BALLARD: Seventy-eight.
STONEY: All right, then start when I just drop my hand, that lamp, OK?
BALLARD: That lamp has been around the home since I was eight years old and
I'm now 78.STONEY: What happened to that lamp?
BALLARD: Well, the only -- that's the only light we had until 1924.
00:08:00STONEY: OK, we're going to start again, and I want you to tell me -- you were
telling me with a lot of life that -- about your sister and your gathering around and you're doing your homework and so forth. So just tell me all about that.BALLARD: Yes, we had a bench behind the table that -- and when mother would get
through with the dishes, cleaning the dishes, me and my sister would get our books and get our homework, sit on that bench, and the light from this lamp is the only light we had to get our homework, which is -- was kind of rough but that's all we had. And we did it, and made fairly good grades.STONEY: Could you tell me about Mr. Carson?
00:09:00BALLARD: Carson?
JUDITH HELFAND: I think you mean [Cousins?].
STONEY: Cousins, I'm sorry.
BALLARD: Mr. Cousin was what they call a stretch out man. In other words,
whatever job you had why they'd put more on you. And he had, for instance, in the weave shop the old man had 16 looms as a job, and he stretched them out to where a man would have to run 35 or 40 looms. And the company would furnish him a person to fill the batteries and take off the cloth, and that man that had the 00:10:0040 looms, it kept him busy going up and down those aisles keeping those looms running.CREW: I'm sorry, George, we need to stop for a moment. I need to check...
BALLARD: Cousins was known as a stretch out man and he -- for instance, my
father had 16 looms in the weave shop. So they stretched him out to where he had about 40 looms. They did furnish him with a battery filler and a cloth doffer. But the job, he had about 40 looms to go up and down the aisles to keep the looms running. For instance, if a thread broke one some looms going (inaudible) he'd work on that and when, of course, and he got through then maybe some in the other house done. Kept him pretty busy running 40 looms. And 00:11:00somebody would ask my dad how much -- how many looms have you got? Well, he said, "I've got about a acre." And which he didn't like much being an acre. But it was pretty rough. This was due to Mr. Cousins' stretch out system.STONEY: Tell us about the story about Mr. Cousins and the dream.
BALLARD: Well, a man -- I don't recall the man's name. He was going in the
plant and this man told him --STONEY: Sorry, start again and say Mr. Cousins was going in the...
BALLARD: Mr. Cousins was going into the plant and he spoke to the man -- I
don't recall the man's name. The man said, "By the way, Mr. Cousins, I had a dream about you last night." And he said, "Yes, what was that?" He 00:12:00said, "Well, I dreamt that you died." And he said, "You were carrying -- there were six pallbearers carrying your body and you looked up and you said how many pallbearers have I got? And he said you've got six. You said, well, cut two of 'em off and cut the other four's wages." So he didn't -- Mr. Cousins didn't have too much to say. He just turned and went on into the plant.STONEY: How did you get fired after the strike?
BALLARD: Well, I re--
STONEY: Just say after the strike.
00:13:00BALLARD: After the strike, I was working 11:00 to 7:00 at night. I reached up
to get in my card and my card was not there. And I asked the supervisor about my card and he said, "Well, Mr. Ballard, you don't have a card. Your time was rolled out this morning about 15 after 7:00." And then I asked, "Was I discharged on account of joining the union?" "Sir, we can't tell you that, this is all we can tell you, your time was ready and we fixed it up for you this morning at 15 after 7:00." So I -- they still didn't tell me why they discharged me. However, I did ask 'em, "Was my work satisfactory?" 00:14:00"Oh, yes, we had nothing against your work. But all we can tell you is your time was ready."STONEY: How long after the strike was that?
BALLARD: Well, I don't know exactly. I don't know exactly.
STONEY: Could you tell 'em -- tell us about what it was like on the picket line?
BALLARD: Well, it was -- they had people that would change shifts and stay with
it --STONEY: Just say on the picket line.
BALLARD: -- on the picket line and we never did have any trouble of any kind on
the picket line. Everybody seemed to cooperate. I don't recall how many 00:15:00people we had on the picket line. However, we had enough to take care of it.STONEY: Was there any opposition?
BALLARD: Yes, now they -- there was times that they tried to stop somebody from
going in but in the end it was quieting down pretty quick. And, of course, we did allow the supervisors and management to go in and out but we didn't allow 00:16:00anybody else to go in.STONEY: Now you mentioned when we were out on the porch about some people --
some people who were strike breakers. Could you tell us that story about the strike breakers?BALLARD: I can't recall exactly who it was but there was some that tried to
force their way into the plant to go in and work some jobs. And, of course, these people were not union people, and they never did make it into the plant. 00:17:00They were stopped at the gate. Like I says, it's been some time and I don't recall their names or how many there was.STONEY: But out on the porch you were telling us about some strikers who got
waylaid by people who were non-strikers and beaten up. Could you tell that story?BALLARD: Yeah. That was -- that man was a head of the boys that was beating up
these union people. They'd just catch a man out by hisself and they'd be three or four people would grab him and they'd give him a good whipping, and 00:18:00they would, of course, he probably didn't even know who they were. But they -- that happened several times, they would catch people out like that, union people, and beat 'em up and try to discourage 'em, try to keep 'em from staying in the union and on strike and all.STONEY: Why did you think that Gadsden people here were so eager to strike
because they struck earlier than anybody else in Alabama?BALLARD: Well, that is true. The only thing --
STONEY: Just say Gadsden did strike early.
BALLARD: Yes, they did strike early, that's true.
STONEY: Why?
00:19:00BALLARD: Well, they were going by the law that was signed to give the working
men the rights to organize, and -- which was the law that was signed by the late President Roosevelt and they believed that so strong, that's why they stayed with it and come out on strike to get the company to recognize 'em and they wanted the 8-hour shifts instead of 12. Of course, the company wouldn't agree to it.STONEY: Now, tell us about your first job in the mill. How old were you and
what happened? 00:20:00BALLARD: Well, my first job -- I don't recall my age at that time but the
first job I had was sweeping. Eight dollars and 10 cents a week for 64 hours. That was my first job was sweeping. But I don't -- like I said I don't recall my age. I don't remember what it was.STONEY: Now, do you remember when the NRA came in?
BALLARD: Yes, I remember when it come in. It must have been --
STONEY: Just say I remember when the NRA came in.
BALLARD: Yes, I do remember when it come in.
STONEY: No, sorry. Start again and say I remember when the NRA came in, OK?
00:21:00BALLARD: I remember when the NRA came in.
STONEY: What happened?
BALLARD: Well, that's another thing. The people were enthused about it and
really stayed there and -- on the picket lines and everything because the NRA was another thing that was backing the people. I do remember that.STONEY: Did you go to any of the union meetings before the strike?
BALLARD: Not very many, not very many.
STONEY: Could you talk about those meetings and just say, well, I didn't go to
many meetings but.BALLARD: I didn't go to very many meetings.
00:22:00STONEY: Could you describe any that you did go to?
BALLARD: Well, the memories were -- on the wages raised, they wanted the hours
cut, and that was the main thing they was wanting to be recognized by the company in which the company didn't agree to it.STONEY: Now, we have been told in other places that the mill villages when the
workers were pretty well split up, the company would do favors for some of the people who said they wouldn't go into the union and then they'd get to the 00:23:00people in the union and there was a lot of bad feeling. Could you talk about that?BALLARD: What I would have to say would be more that's hearsay as I can't
put my finger right on who it was and exactly when it happened. So it would be hearsay as to why they did that. I didn't hear a good bit about it.STONEY: Were there company spies around?
BALLARD: Oh, yeah, they sure was.
STONEY: Talk about that.
BALLARD: In other words, they -- these people would be -- would slip in to those
meetings because they didn't have to wear a badge or nothing and they would get in there and they'd find out a lot of things that the union was wanting to 00:24:00do, and they'd take it back to the company. I don't know for sure how many it was but that did happen. So I would call 'em spies. Yeah, we had lots of that going on.STONEY: Did you ever hear your father talk about that?
BALLARD: No, he never did -- he never did talk too much about it. However, he
did talk some about it 'cause he was displeased about it. 00:25:00STONEY: Now, what role did your father play in the union?
BALLARD: Well, I -- the best I remember he was --
STONEY: Just the best I remember, my father.
BALLARD: Yeah, the best I remember my father was just a leader. I don't know
as he had a name but he was a leader in the union.STONEY: Where did he get his ideas from?
BALLARD: What?
STONEY: Where did he get his ideas about the union from?
BALLARD: Well, by listening to the radio --
STONEY: Just to say, well, my father got his ideas about unions by, OK?
BALLARD: Oh, union spies?
STONEY: No, no. Just start, my father learned about the unions by listening to
the radio or whatever.BALLARD: Oh, yeah, my father learned about the union by listening to the radio
00:26:00and reading the paper. That's about all I know about that. He did keep a close check on it.STONEY: Now, Hunts- Gadsden was a very tough town at that time. Could you talk
about that? The newspapers were against you, the mayor was against you, all of this. Could you just tell -- just recite all the people that were against you? Say it was a tough town.BALLARD: Yeah, that's true. It seemed that even the sheriff and all was
against the union. And, well, the leaders of Gadsden were against the union. But the people determined to hold down because they knew there was a law that 00:27:00was supposed to back 'em, but they did have a lot of people against it.STONEY: Who got fired?
BALLARD: Who got fired? Well, my father for one. It was like 64 people in one
week. They didn't tell any of 'em what they was firing them for but they just told them their time was ready. That was one of the big reasons was the strike. Letting people go, discharge 'em without a reason. 00:28:00STONEY: OK. Now...