Grady Kilgro Interview

JANET IRONS: I wanted to finish up on what happened when the union came in in '42 and after and you mentioned a guy named Robert Hill.

GRADY KILGO: Yeah, he was one of the head men in that there and he helped straighten it out. He was one of the -- let's see -- he was an officer.

IRONS: What did he do? How did he straighten out those --

KILGO: What he'd done, he would go different places and talk to overseers and things and tell 'em what they had to do and what they hadn't -- didn't do. He kept them straightened up. I mean, he got 'em to where they -- they go around and like people and talk to 'em like a human that's it. See? They'd just [do anything?] to ya and same thing, but he'd take 'em in the office and talk to 'em, and he'd get pretty rough with 'em. Some of 'em said, "Well, you ain't coming back to my office." He'd say, "I come back to your office I get you straightened out." He'd come back, too. He was a determined feller and a stubborn feller. He was a good officer.

IRONS: OK, so you went in and worked as a spinner and then, you remember when the NRA came in and you went on to eight hours. Tell me about that.

KILGO: Well, they went -- we had to make in -- well they went to giving us 40 cents an hour. NRA went in, President Roosevelt took over, and that's when this started 40 cents an hour. Well, people, boy they really got up there and got to working real good then 'cause -- and he stood behind us then. And the union, they stood behind us and we really got it straightened out and made a good mill out of it. We come out of there we had a good mill there.

IRONS: Do you remember the Dixie Federation of Labor?

KILGO: Part of it, yeah.

IRONS: What do you remember about it?

KILGO: Well, that's one part I don't know too much about because that was -- we was under that and the head man is above it. There was the one, like Robert Hill and them, they was -- you know, [Clyde Wear?] and all of them, they was -- 00:02:00they was over us and they'd just tell us what was going on after that. They'd come have meetings and say, "I think we're doing a little good," or "I don't think we're doing any good," stuff like that and that's about the situation up there.

IRONS: Tell me the first time you heard about a union and how did you hear about it?

KILGO: Well, that was in '34 when they come in there and tried to start that. I mean, they come in, brought a bunch of papers, stood at the gates and handed us pamphlets and of course that all come in with it there. We --

IRONS: Did you join?

KILGO: I joined the union when they -- yeah, I joined the union in '34. Most everybody else did there -- they could get in but -- See, they had election and the company won it and that's what messed us all up was that election they had there. Thirty-four they had the election -- I mean, in '42 they had the election and the union won it.

IRONS: When you say the company won it, what does that mean?

KILGO: It means they just had more -- just had more influence over the people that was working there and stopped 'em from joining a union. They wouldn't let 'em join the union. Tell 'em they was going to fire 'em and everything else, which they did fire a lot of people. But they'd just go to 'em and tell 'em -- well, if you want to join the union, we'll just fire you right now and that's it. That's the situation of it.

IRONS: I'm going to try to keep you focused back on when you were 19 - 20 years old and try to keep you back in '34 and try to force you not to think about '42, which is going to be hard. I understand that, OK? So, think about 1934 and think about going to a union meeting back then whoever it was. If the Ballards were there or Clyde Wear was there or whoever. Or Burns -- Burns Cox was involved in all of that. Walter [Peterson?] maybe, I don't know if you remember him.

KILGO: Yeah, Burns and Clyde and two fellers that came in here, I can't think of their name. They was the one that done the talking to the people at the union meetings. Tell 'em how me and explain to them why they was wanting a union. That's for the, you know, try to stop some views [in?] and stuff like that in the mills and things. Of course, I'd call it [musing?] when they come around and cuss you out and everything else. I'd call it musing myself. I don't know what y'all call it. That's the way I'd look at it.

IRONS: Can you remember anything else they said at those meetings?

KILGO: Well, they'd just ask us to think about it and talk to the people, get 'em to join the union, things like that. But -- see, right then they had -- the company had too much hold on the help. See, they'd had 'em here for 00:05:00years, they'd run this mill for years like they wanted to run it. And that was about the situation of it. They'd tell us how -- how it would be if we had a union, control our part of it and not let them control their part.

IRONS: I would like to show you a letter. I don't have any letters, just one? Maybe we need to stop it for just a second.

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KILGO: Now this right here was what I was talking about.

IRONS: Can you read it starting with date?

KILGO: "This is certified that GD [Spinks?] has been employed by the Dwight Manufacturing Company for a period of three years as a carpenter. AJ Rogers. I know who this guy is. He was the head of the carpenters there and my boss I was talking to the other day asked me if I was a member of the union and I told him 00:06:00I was and that I was attending period Labor Day. From that day he showed a difference until he let me clean. He wrote to cut the force after giving Dwight Manufacturing three years (inaudible) satisfaction work. They let me go and kept me men in my place who had only been there three or four months." That's the situation of the thing. That's what I was telling you about. If they didn't like you they fired you and put somebody in their place. If they had to go get their brother, or uncle, or somebody, they'd take 'em, put 'em in your place, and let you go. (inaudible) how long you'd been there.

IRONS: This letter says something about a parade on Labor Day. Do you remember anything about that?

KILGO: Yeah, we had a parade. Marched right down Broad Street here.

IRONS: Were you in it?

KILGO: Yeah. We started down yonder where the city hall is now. Came back and marched to Alabama City.

IRONS: How did it feel to be in the parade?

KILGO: Oh, it was nice. We had one more time. See, we had a lot of young people in that that (inaudible) learners and we had a lot of old people in it that some of them wasn't able to march (inaudible) but they went along and rode cars, but the biggest part of us marched. We really had a time marching in that parade that day. And then we went down to the -- we had a picnic ground. I believe it was -- it was a -- no we went down in this park down here and had a picnic there that day. We had a nice meal and everything. We got through marching and then we came back here and had our picnic that day.

IRONS: What was the message -- the public message you were trying to send when you all marched in that Labor Day parade?

KILGO: We were just trying to get help best we could and that's about the way of it. Just help the best we could.

GEORGE STONEY: Could you tell us what it was like on the picket line?

KILGO: Well, ain't nobody bother you on the picket line. You were just out there on your own. Nobody didn't bother you. There wasn't nobody out there saying anything to you -- anything on the picket line. You just out there on your own. Just like I say, if you want to sit there all night you could. We had several bunches -- some came down from [Guntersville?], some from Huntsville. Sat on the picket line with us. And I believe we had one bunch from Talladega. That was a rough place, Talladega was.

IRONS: When you said they didn't bother you -- who didn't bother you?

KILGO: Nobody didn't bother us. The union -- I mean, the company men or nobody didn't come out and say anything to us.

IRONS: All during that time?

KILGO: Yeah, there's lots of times in a strike like that where these company men would come out and jump on ya, but they didn't say a word to us. They just let us have our picket and that was it. Sometimes the bosses come out by and speak to you and sometimes they just look like they could bite your head off and that's about the situation of it.

IRONS: Did the mill close down completely?

KILGO: Oh, yeah, they closed it down. They didn't lock the gate. That's one thing they couldn't do is lock the gate. They locked it up there one time when a little strike up there -- about 30 minutes they had it opened back up, too, because they called international and they told 'em to open that gate and keep it open.

IRONS: Now, I'm sorry --

KILGO: [Able?] the watchman there thought he had to lock it, so they found out he didn't have to lock it.

IRONS: Who was on the picket line? Old people, young people, men, women?

KILGO: Everybody was on the picket line. Let's see, at that time there was about 2,500 hands working there and everybody was on the picket line. We had 00:10:00three gates, everybody was on the picket line. We stayed all day and all night. I stayed there day and night for three different times. Didn't have nothing else to do.

IRONS: What did you talk about? Did you sing?

KILGO: Oh, we -- I just -- a little bit of everything. (laughs) Go somewhere and get us a bottle of home brew or something and drink a little home brew while we was there. (laughs) Yeah, we had two or three fellers there that knowed where they sell home brew. A little bit of huckleberry wine. We'd get a little bit of that stuff. We had a good time out there. It was just a darn picnic is what it was. Real nice. I enjoyed myself.

STONEY: But at the same time you were out for 74 days. How did your families eat?

KILGO: Well, the union fed us. They give us food. See the international fixed it where we could have food. We got food once a week. We'd go there and they'd have canned stuff and meal and flour.

IRONS: Where would you go?

KILGO: They had a building fixed for it.

IRONS: Where was the building?

KILGO: It was up on Tuscaloosa Avenue in Alabama City. They had a big -- had a big old (inaudible) building up there. So we'd go there and the union representative would issue you so much food.

IRONS: I'm going to ask you a question about when this happened? Was that in '42 or was that in '34?

KILGO: Yeah, '34.

IRONS: Was it?

KILGO: Yeah. And another time we had a wild cat strike or whatever they called it, I don't know, they furnished us food then, too. But they give us enough to live on and I worked one day a week with the city. Paid my water bill and my 00:12:00Uncle [Nate?] helped me out some with the rent 'course the rent wasn't $3 a month, though it was -- the water bill was 75 cents.

STONEY: Now, we have heard that during that strike some people got evicted.

KILGO: Yeah, they did.

STONEY: Could you tell us about that?

KILGO: They just, uh, the landlord just move 'em out. That was it. They just said, well, you can't pay. We'll have to get somebody else to put in your place. They'll pay. We'll get a steel plant hand or maybe a some kind of social worker or something or other, you get them in there, give 'em that and make them move out and they'd have to go to the country or somewhere else to get 'em a job or get a place to go where they can get something to eat. Yeah, they had a lot of people that got evicted during their houses and things and sent out of there and the water bills, they cut them off. Light bills they had, 00:13:00of course most of the time most of them had lamps. We didn't get any lights there until 1937. We got lights in the village in the homes there. We didn't live it then. We lived up on the hill there in a big old four room house in which we used lamps and we did have city water and I worked the wood yard over here one day a week. Paid that water bill.

STONEY: What about toilet facilities?

KILGO: Oh, we had outside toilet -- pit toilets. Yeah, when we moved in the village that's all we had, pit toilets. In 1937 they put water toilets in the house.

STONEY: Could you tell us about how the company kept people straight in the village?

KILGO: Well, they didn't -- they didn't bother the people. They had an old police up there. Somebody got into trouble or something down there, they sent that old police down there to see him. Never did arrest nobody, he'd just go down and talk to 'em. Tell 'em, yeah, you got to straighten this out now. 00:14:00I mean, maybe you take -- some of them there would get a little -- drink too many and get into a fuss or fight out there. This old police he'd go out there and jump on them and tell them they'd have to quit there --

STONEY: Now, the reason I'm asking is that in some other places we've been told that the owners of the village, the mill village, wouldn't let people drink or they'd fire people if somebody got in the family way. That kind of thing.

KILGO: No, they didn't -- in the family way they didn't, but if they got to drinking up there they would fire 'em. They'd send 'em right out of there in a hurry because a feller drinking can't run their job. I didn't do much drinking myself. I wasn't no feller to drink. Just like they say, man, these fellers sit there on a picket line at night and we'd know where some place was to get a bottle of home brew or some huckleberry wine or something like that. We'd go -- none of us didn't have no money. One guy he worked -- he was a 00:15:00roofer in the day time and he was the only feller that drawed a penny of money because he goes takes over that there -- one of those Ballards there. He was a -- they was brother-in-laws. Well, they go here back this far cemetery and there's some colored people over there and white people sold home brew and we'd give 'em a dime a bottle for some home brew, a quarter for a pint of huckleberry wine. (laughs) That's something, that's something, I'm telling you.

STONEY: How did you feel when the strike got called off?

KILGO: Well, I felt good about it because I went back to work.

STONEY: Sorry, just say, well, when the strike got called off.

KILGO: Well, most of us felt good when we went back to work. I mean, we got back in there and then we -- it got rough on us again there and that's when they started again on the union. It, uh, most people liked to work. I mean, 00:16:00they had families. Of course we had doctors up there. They didn't stop the doctors. They kept the doctors there and people'd go there see the doctors. They let us go and see the doctors. They didn't charge us anything for a doctor. They had four doc -- three doctors there and if you got -- needed a doctor, well, you went to see him. If you needed him to call you, he'd come to the house just like he always did, but it was real nice about that. They kept that up.

IRONS: Now, you said earlier that after the '34 strike ended, people went back to work. It was worse than before.

KILGO: Oh, yeah. It was a whole lot worse then because -- see the company had the advantage of us then. They'd won all they wanted to win and we lost everything we lost. Well, they'd just come back in there and they just made it rough on us just like you out there driving a bunch of cattle and that's it. Just --

STONEY: Now, the day the strike was called off the Gadsden papers said that Gorman called it a great victory for the union. Did you believe him?

KILGO: No, nobody else didn't because he hadn't won no victory.

STONEY: Just start off and say, well, when I read that I didn't --

KILGO: Yeah, it's -- people got the paper, read it, and laughed about it. They'd say where's their victory? We didn't get what we wanted. We didn't get what we asked fer. The company got theirs and we right back in the same ol' rut we's in except a little bit worse. The road got rockier as it went on and that's the situation of it.

IRONS: Can you describe how you heard that the strike was over?

KILGO: Oh, they went out there and made a big announcement of it. Clyde, this guy from the Federation of Labor. What's his name? What -- have you got his name?

IRONS: Was it John Dean?

KILGO: I guess that's him. I didn't ever know it, but he called us all up there and told us that there wasn't anything we could do. We'd just have to 00:18:00go back to work. So we went back to work, that's all we could do. They opened the gates, swung it wide, said come on in on your jobs. I was out four weeks, the strike was over. Well, they was calling them back as fast as they could using their time card they called them back. I lost four weeks getting my -- getting called back. Lots of us was because overseer (inaudible) Shrum, he called back what he wanted. Rest of 'em he didn't want, he said beat it. Like a feller told him up there during the war he told people out there before the war he said, "You can either work or I go out here at the gate and get a bare-footed boy to put on your job." So, I don't know -- crazy guy there. 00:19:00So the Army called all these men up and got 'em in. This old guy went up to him and said, "Well, Shrum, that it's like this." He said, "Uncle Sam picked all them boys up and put shoes on them and now there ain't no bare-foot boys. (laughs) Really [tickled?] you. That's what happened to them. That's a tale they'd tell you -- had a bare-footed boy out there waiting. This old guy tells you, you got no bare-footed boy --

IRONS: When you heard the strike was over, you went back and what did you do? How did you try to -- you tried to get your job back?

KILGO: Well, what it was, he was a calling 'em back. He'd pick so many names a day to call back.

IRONS: How would you know if he called you?

KILGO: He'd call you at home.

IRONS: On the telephone?

KILGO: Yeah. He'd call you or send you word. Send somebody up after you. They had people that they were sending around to the people that they called back. And there's about six or seven of us, about four weeks to getting back because, see this -- going by their time cards and -- he's checking out what 00:20:00he wanted. I never had any trouble with the -- with them after they got the union there. I worked -- at Shrum, me and him worked like a top together because he would -- if he liked you, he liked you. If he didn't like you, he didn't like you. That was the way the situation was and I reckon he always liked me pretty good. I've always run my job.

STONEY: OK, now, let's try to -- the story we get from the papers here is that when the strike was called off on Friday night, Saturday, uh, you people had this big meeting, and you voted that you weren't going to go back in. And then you got --

KILGO: No, we didn't vote. If we didn't vote we wouldn't go back in. They just told us that we'd have to go back in. Said that's it. The union said it's over with us, we can't do any more. Said y'all'd just have to go back on your job till we can find -- do something better and do something -- 00:21:00get more equipped and get more members and things. So, that's the way we worked it out.

STONEY: Now, do you remember anything about an injunction?

KILGO: Well, there's some of 'em -- there's was an injunction filing again 'em because but they, uh -- it was in the union they didn't like 'em. They just fired [soup?] out of 'em right there and that was it. I had several good friends there that's dead now. They wouldn't even talk to 'em. They'd go up to the gate and they'd tell 'em get off of the property. They didn't want 'em there because --

STONEY: Where did they go?

KILGO: They went to different places, went to work. The biggest -- the majority of the people went to LaGrange, Georgia. That's where they went work. The -- see, LaGrange, Georgia, they never had a union I don't reckon. I never knowed LaGrange, Georgia having a union. But they, uh, they'd take people in. 00:22:00Dwight had the best help there was. They worked and any -- of course, this is a little ahead of time there after the mill shut down. Dwight Cotton Mill man could get a job anywhere, it didn't make no difference. They could get a job anywhere. They didn't have to make no job. Oh, I don't know -- the people went to Talladega and went to work. I went down to Talladega, but I didn't work any there. I went to (inaudible) and worked three days. But I only worked three days and that was the end of my cotton mill right there. I said, if I can't beat this I'd go dig a ditch and that's what I done. I went and dug a ditch.

STONEY: Now, could you tell –

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KILGO: That's one thing I'd do is plenty of that, sweating. I'm telling ya, I picked up a tire the other morning I thought I'd pass out.

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IRONS: Grady, I'd like to read you some names of people who claim that they lost their jobs when the strike was over and then sent a complaint up to Washington or to the federal authorities to try and get their jobs back.

KILGO: Well, if I can remember, my -- it's like I say, a lot of 'em I don't remember.

IRONS: OK. JE [Barfield?]?

KILGO: Yeah, he lost his job.

IRONS: Do you remember why?

KILGO: Uh, I think him and overseer had a little spat, best I remember and he just fired him.

IRONS: WF Howard?

KILGO: I don't remember him.

IRONS: Jesse Smith?

KILGO: I remember him. He lost his job, too, on account of a little argument, I think. They didn't like what he said.

IRONS: Lola [Right?]?

KILGO: I don't know them.

IRONS: [Isa?] Sprinkle?

KILGO: Mmmm --

IRONS: JS Stanfield?

KILGO: Oh, yeah. They fired him, too, because he went in there and he'd had him a couple of drinks or two -- he liked to go over and serenade us. Let him go right fast.

IRONS: JC Wilson?

KILGO: I don't know him.

IRONS: Paul Moon?

KILGO: I don't him.

IRONS: [Patton?] Turner? Andy Smith?

KILGO: Andy Smith -- yeah, they fired him. He was on a -- well, he worked out on the yard for a while and somehow or another I don't know what happened to him, but anyhow, they fired him out there. Years back they got him back.

IRONS: [Floyd England?]? Edna Cannon?

KILGO: Edna Cannon -- yeah, I know her. She was one of the union workers, too. She passed away about two years ago. She was my neighbor.

IRONS: Really?

KILGO: Yeah, she was a good worker in the union. She really worked hard as she could and they let her go, but they hired her back later on, too. She worked 00:25:00for (inaudible).

IRONS: WP Harrison?

KILGO: I don't know him.

IRONS: JS Sudberry? Lloyd Cook? Molly Harper? Evelyn Jet? George --

KILGO: Evelyn Jet, let's see if I remember that? No, I can't remember that.

IRONS: George [Seals?]? JT Walden?

KILGO: That George Fields? I don't know why he was fired from there, but he was. But I never did know why he was fired.

IRONS: Do you think they were trying to weed out people that were strong for the union?

KILGO: Oh, yeah. They done that -- they come around and talk to you after you (inaudible) want to know why that you wanted the union and asked if -- do you think you've been treated right? Well, you'd be working, you'd have to say yes or no and most of 'em said yes because that's all they could do. 00:26:00They had a job and had to run it. They had a family there. And lots of them just -- people there got fired. They just -- they want somebody to replace 'em like that feller over there said he'd worked there so many years and they put a man on there that worked two years and so that's the situation. They didn't care about you.

IRONS: OK, [Cally?] Mount?

KILGO: I don't know them.

IRONS: Daniel Musket?

KILGO: Don't remember him.

IRONS: Cynthia Barry? Laura Hall? James Boyd? Lewis Roberts? Charles Nelson? Ruby Ware? Is that Clyde's wife?

KILGO: No, I don't remember them people.

IRONS: FM Addison?

KILGO: Oh, yeah. FM Addison -- yeah, I know him. He was a union worker, too.

IRONS: Was he? You think he was fired because he was involved in the union?

KILGO: Yeah. He was fired because he was in with the union. Because they 00:27:00didn't like him, they told him they didn't need him.

IRONS: EJ Moon? Homer Atkins? Henry Bagett?

KILGO: Homer Atkins, yeah, I know him. They fired him on account of the union, too. But I don't know what for. See, a lot of them people -- most of the people that I worked with was in the spinning room. A lot of -- other people I didn't know too much about. Weave shop, card room, places like that I didn't know too much about.

IRONS: All right. It's a big mill.

STONEY: Ok, Jamie in a few minutes I want to get a cut a way to her re--

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KILGO: Yeah, they wanted to know why I wanted a union. Well, I just plainly told 'em --

STONEY: OK, start saying when I went back in.

KILGO: Went back in -- they called me back in and put me on a job. Of course it was more job than I could run, but I done the best I could do with it and I told 'em I had to work. I had my mother and 'em to keep up and I couldn't go 00:28:00much longer and so he let me go back to work and he kept me and I never was fired, laid off nor nothing. Since then I stayed right on in there. Everything come up I was right in with it, but I was shop steward for a while after, you know, they got the union guys straightened out there.

STONEY: Go back again. Uh, just say, when I went back in they asked me why I wanted to -- the union -- OK?

KILGO: Yeah. Well, I told 'em I -- just like I say --

STONEY: Sorry, just start over saying when I went back in.

KILGO: Yeah, when I went back in, I went back in and told 'em I had -- I needed a job and they said we'll give your job back. So, they give me a job back more work on it, less pay, I guess. (laughs) I never did get the pay. So, that's the situation of the thing. That's about all I can tell you about it.

STONEY: But, no, you said that they asked you about why you wanted to be in the union.

KILGO: Yeah.

STONEY: So, tell us about that.

KILGO: Well, I told 'em I thought the union would be good for the place and of course they didn't agree with me, but I did tell 'em I thought it'd be good for the place. It'd be a help for the people and everything else. And that's about all the rest of them told 'em, too, when they went back in and asked 'em.

STONEY: Did -- was there any attempt to make you to sign something saying you wouldn't join the union?

KILGO: No, they never did ask us to do that. They just come and asked us what we -- why we wanted the union. That was it because they didn't ask us to sign nothing. They got a little company union up there and they asked us to come up and meeting. Well, they'd ask us why we wanted a union in the mill, if we wasn't treated right, and things like that. Of course they had -- a big crowd went up there to the meeting and it was strictly company, though, 'cause company men was running it and we went up and had these meetings and they'd 00:30:00tell us. Finally about the last meeting we had with them, we just told 'em we wasn't satisfied with their meeting and we just continued their meetings up there and let it go with that.