Eula McGill Interview

 EULA MCGILL: (inaudible) would be wonderful this time, yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: Oh, OK. Well -- (inaudible) yeah, it had been in the last couple of days.

MCGILL: After we came back, after the Women's Trade Union League convention in um, in Washington, I'd say about a year later, Eleanor Roosevelt came here under the auspices of the Women's -- Professional Women's Club, Birmingham Business Professional Women's Club, to speak, and they were charging, it was a money making affair, and they were charging for admission, she was going to speak at Bell Auditorium. And uh, to my surprise, in the afternoon, along the middle of the afternoon, Melvina Thompson, who was her secretary, called me, and told me that they were giving a reception for Mrs. Roosevelt at the [Tuntweiler?] Hotel, beginning at six o'clock, and Mrs. Roosevelt would like 00:01:00for me to come down and attend it. And uh, I put on my best dress, and went down there, and when I walked in, it was held on the mezzanine floor of the Tuntweiler, and I walked in, uh, Mrs. Roosevelt saw me as I went in the door, she walked over to me and shook my hand and welcomed me in. And nobody would have ever thought, you know, she remembered me from being up there. And uh, gave me -- Melvina Thompson gave me a ticket to her uh, affair. And uh, we got in the cab, the uh, Business Professional Women's Club was furnishing cabs for everybody to ride up to the auditorium from the hotel, and I got in the cab with these women, now I wasn't working at the time, I had no job, and uh, they said, "You knew Mrs. Roosevelt before?" And I said, "Yes, and uh, I've 00:02:00been active with the Women's Trade Union League, and she's a member and been active for years in the Women's Trade Union League in New York State." And uh, they said, "Where do you work?" I said, "Out here at the cotton mill?" And they didn't say anything else to me, they just clammed up. I don't know if they thought I was lying or what. They thought I was (inaudible) some kind of a dignitary, I don't know what they thought, because of the attention Mrs. Roosevelt gave me. And we got up to the uh, um, Bell Auditorium, it's across from the courthouse, and the huge Woodrow Wilson Park, which they've named now Lynn Park, which I think they shouldn't have changed the name of it, but it's called Lynn Park now, but that street was filled with people, and that park was filled with people. The hall was -- the auditorium was full. The seats were paid for. Out -- there was more people outside than there were inside. And I had a pretty good seat myself, right up front, when 00:03:00Mrs. Roosevelt got up to speak, when she was introduced, she came on the stage. She said, "Ladies and gentlemen, I understand there's a lot of people outside who can't get in the building. And uh, I don't believe you would mind if I take a few minutes and go out there and speak to them first." And she did, and that's the type of person that Eleanor Roosevelt was. And that's how, whatever they say about her, I've heard people criticize her, called her a nigger lover and everything else, but the people loved Eleanor Roosevelt. And she said in my presence one time, "The longer I live, the less I care about what people says about me."

GEORGE STONEY: That's beautiful.

JUDITH HELFAND: Did she -- did she ever tell you anything about the -- the letters that she was getting from other cotton mill workers? I'm just wondering. Could you tell us about, when we -- you know, one of the things, one 00:04:00of the legacies, it seems, of this early organizing was that some real leaders came out of this campaign.

MCGILL: Well we was all leaders. We didn't have nobody else. We had to lead ourselves. Everybody was a leader, really. And the local people who uh, local officers, were recognized as -- as the leaders. And uh, if you didn't lead, you got put down and somebody else got in your place. The rank and file people in the textile industry in those days did the organizing, and did the running of the union, and did the handling of the strike, because as I say, the union didn't have enough paid representatives to commence to direct, like we later on, I learned how to do an amalgamated, when we'd have a strike, we would have an organizer on the picket line constantly, we'd picket them day and night, it 00:05:00was always an organizer on the picket line with the pickets to help and to revise, and to see what went on. You know, the -- all that had to be done by the rank and filers. And --

GEORGE STONEY: That's (inaudible) two leaders.

HELFAND: Tell us about Homer Welch.

MCGILL: Oh, Homer Welch came here from Hogansville, Georgia, after the '34 strike, he was active in Georgia. And he came over here after the strike, was assigned to Alabama to work. And I went with Homer to some places, he and his wife, they rented a house not far -- far from where we lived, in (inaudible) Highlands. And I went with him a lot of times on organizing, uh, situations, and uh, was quite a -- a good friend of Homer and his family. And because like I said, they didn't live too far from us, he'd come by and pick me up, and I 00:06:00-- I'd go with him on organizing. They went to Talladega -- I went to Talladega a time or two with -- with Homer.

GEORGE STONEY: Tell us what kind of a man he was.

MCGILL: A fine -- Homer Welch was one of the finest men I ever think uh, somebody told me uh, several years later, I had never seen Homer take a drink. I had a -- a -- a theory, uh, when I was an organizer -- working in the shop, that I did not think that organizers ought to drink on the job. I don't think anybody should drink on the job. And I let it be known to any organizer coming around to work with me, if you come to a union meeting drunk, you might as well -- you're going to catch some flak from me. Because that's the quickest way to lose respect. And we had organizers who did drink, I think some of it was 00:07:00frustration, but none of them ever come to my union meetings drunk, because I -- I would have thrown them out the door. But Homer came up here, and I made the statement one time that I did not ever -- had ever seen Homer take a drink, and I've been around him a lot of social occasions and everything. But somebody told me years later that he did take some drinks, but since I had made that statement, he would never take a drink where I'd find it out. Because I did not ever -- and I -- but he had, and he did -- he wasn't perfect. But he was a -- a good family man, and honest and sincere, and a hard worker. It was just sad what happened to him.

HELFAND: Could you talk about what happened to him?

MCGILL: Well during the 1934 textile strike, the mills at Talladega promised the workers that if they wouldn't come out on strike, that they would never go back to 12 hours a day or cut their wages. And I understand they bought guns, and every time they'd see or think that -- hear that the flying squadron was coming, they'd shut the mill down and people would get on top of the mills with their guns. I didn't see this, but I heard it. I believe it. But uh, right after, uh, the NRA was declared unconstitutional by the Supreme Court, the Talladega Cotton Factory went back on 12 hours, and cut wages. And the people walked out on strike. There was no union activity there, nothing, but Homer immediately went down there and did a magnificent job setting it up and putting it together. And uh, the people were pretty -- pretty mad, they'd been 00:09:00hoodwinked by the company, and after sticking with them through the strike, and listening to them, they do this to them, they were very -- in a very bad mood. And it was pretty evident that some of them were carrying guns. And um, it -- uh, Bibb Graves, who was governor, who had sent people up here to talk to Homer about it, and one afternoon late, Captain Potter Smith, captain of the Highway Patrol, came up to talk to Homer, and uh, he was down near the picket line, and Homer -- as Homer drove towards the picket line, Potter Smith stopped him, and he parked his car, and was standing and talking to Potter Smith. And while they 00:10:00were talking, there was some cars, they was just dark -- the car lights had just been turned on, and they -- these several cars was coming down the -- the road to come down in front of the mill, and down by where Potter Smith and Homer was talking. And Homer remarked to Potter Smith, now this is testimony Potter Smith gave in the trial, he said, Homer said, "I better go move my car a little further up the road." So before Homer got to the car, he said he heard the shots, the first shot he heard came from the top of the tree down to the picket line. And he said right after that, uh, for about 15 minutes, it was like the fronts -- fronts of France. And uh, of course, later Homer and Red Thornton were accused -- there was a deputy sheriff killed, and uh, they were accused of uh, arrested on warrants, took out for murder, and uh, Red was put in 00:11:00jail, which he was found hung in jail, and they claimed he hung himself, but there was bruises on his head and other things, which a lot of people thought that he did not kill himself. But Homer told me that when the shooting stopped, started, he told me this later, that he dropped to the ground and crawled under his car, over into a ditch beyond. And he crawled out into a field with some weeds, and laid there until he recognized Ted Williams' voice. Ted Williams was -- ran the labor newspaper here in Birmingham. And he was down there. And uh, he was looking for Homer. And when he didn't -- he laid there and wouldn't answer until he recognized Ted's voice, and Ted got him and brought him to Birmingham, and put him in jail, which the uh, Talladega authorities tried to get him moved, and he stayed in the Jefferson County jail, they wouldn't release him to Talladega. And he stayed six months up in jail. And 00:12:00uh, was only taken back down there for trial. And uh, of course, Red Thornton had already gotten -- was -- was dead. And Homer was finally convicted for manslaughter, and was sentenced to 10 years in penitentiary. He served I think a little over a year, and was paroled at the end of that. But --

GEORGE STONEY: OK now --

MCGILL: -- he had nothing to do with the -- now Potter, if you believe what -- I have to believe what Potter Smith, he was the police officer who was there, and that was his testimony. But at the trial, Roger [Meadow?] was a noted criminal attorney here who was hired to um, represent Homer, and uh, he was trying to 00:13:00show fraud in the jury because there was -- the jury, he called names of people that have been dead for years, and the judge finally told him, he said, "Look, you're wasting your time. If you're trying to show fraud in the jury, you're wasting your time, because I'm not going to rule in your favor." And he was convicted of manslaughter, not murder, but they had had a run-in, the deputy sheriff, and uh, Homer uptown before during the day, and had some words.

GEORGE STONEY: Now ask him about Paul Christopher.

HELFAND: Can you tell us about Paul Christopher?

MCGILL: I, uh, got acquainted with Paul right after the general textile strike, he was assigned to Alabama, and worked here in Birmingham for a while. And -- but I left here, and I didn't know -- see Paul again until he showed up, he left the staff of the textile workers union, and I was on the uh, executive 00:14:00board of the Tennessee Labor Council, and uh, William Turnblazer, who was the district president of the mine workers, was president.

HELFAND: Excuse me, you uh -- we're not going to be able -- we don't know a lot of these folks, but we just know -- we know who Paul was --

MCGILL: Oh. All right.

HELFAND: -- and we know that he emerged as a real --

MCGILL: Well Paul --

HELFAND: -- very strong person. So if you could talk about Paul Christopher in a compact, strong way, like that.

MCGILL: Well I'm getting to what I know about him.

HELFAND: OK.

MCGILL: Uh, Paul, uh, I was on the council, so uh, Paul had applied for a job as secretary of the uh, Tennessee Labor Council. William Turnblazer didn't know him, and William asked me if I knew him, and I said yes, and I recommended Paul for the job. And he went to work as secretary of the Tennessee Labor Council, and later on was legislative representative for the Tennessee Labor Council. 00:15:00And uh, he had an office, in fact, back in the days, we paid for his office, Amalgamated, and the mine workers paid his salary while he worked as secretary, and his office was right next to mine, and I worked very close with Paul in Knoxville while he had that position. And then I went to West Tennessee, and um, Paul of course still -- then they moved the office to Nashville. And Paul died in -- but I worked with him there in Knoxville for a while, yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: Now, was there any other questions?

HELFAND: Well, yeah. You -- last time, uh, and you mentioned it a little bit before, you were talking about um, how important it is to not um, to not uh, 00:16:00organize a union in secret, that it's critical to come public.

MCGILL: No, I'm not --

HELFAND: That that was something that -- that I imagine that you learned --

MCGILL: Well once you go --

HELFAND: -- from the strike.

MCGILL: No, there were the days we had a -- a much fairer law that would uh, they would take into consideration actions, it wasn't -- in other words, you didn't have to first prove that the company knew, you was -- prove definitely the company knew that you had a union, I'm talking about people who were working in the shop as in-plant organizers. Or active on the part of the union inside the shop. There are certain things you can and can't do under the law. Today it's more restrictive than it was back in the early days. But, uh, it's one of the hardest -- the company can find always something to fire somebody for, if they want to. Although it might be for labor activity, you have to have a pretty strong case in order to protect somebody. I never used 00:17:00the law in organizing. Because uh, you had to have more than that to organize a shop. That just gave you some rights to protect you, but actually the company still could do all the same things they wanted to do, and it was up to you to prove it, you see.

HELFAND: OK.

GEORGE STONEY: OK, I think we should break.

(break in audio)

MCGILL: I'd give her some of the time, it takes so long, I said hell, I can [tie it?] better than that, (inaudible) and get [him out faster?] (inaudible). Waited all day for her to type one letter.

GEORGE STONEY: Mm.

MCGILL: She wasn't no typist. She was a --

GEORGE STONEY: Jamie, just try sweeping from there to her, see what would happen.

MCGILL: (inaudible).

JAMIE STONEY: Uh, real -- I -- I wouldn't be --

(break in audio)

MCGILL: I don't know their address.

JAMIE STONEY: Let me know when she's ready to type it. Watch your boom shadow up on the boom, please.

GEORGE STONEY: Oh, you can start any time, Eula.

MCGILL: Well I'm looking for (inaudible). Oh, here's Shelby's. I'll tell you, I write them about once a month.

GEORGE STONEY: Keep going there, Jamie. Go --

MCGILL: Thank you for contacting me. Didn't used to say (inaudible) and noted, going to keep that in mind, and so on, and so forth. Got a space there.

JAMIE STONEY: Watch the boom. Right there is fine.

MCGILL: What's the date, the 6th? Let's see, where is she at? (inaudible)

GEORGE STONEY: Go up to the newsletter sign again, and then come back down to her. Hold it longer -- a little longer than that before you go down. Now go. Let's try that again, we had a big shadow (inaudible). (pause) OK, up to -- 00:20:00that's it. OK.

(break in video)

MCGILL: Did they find it's easier to work in -- in a union shop?

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.

MCGILL: (inaudible) for uh, that you don't, uh, have to be uh, listening to everybody coming in? And with every little thing, you know, telling them, you know, every little thing, you know? Well they can't -- if they listen to people's complaints all day long, how come they won't find no (inaudible)? 00:21:00Because they -- if they say my door is open, come in and talk to me any time, you know they couldn't do it. They wouldn't have no time to carry on their business, would they? They'd be sitting all day long, listening to workers come in, if the workers really felt free to do that. Oh my zoo, have you seen my monkeys? They took my gorillas away.

JAMIE STONEY: From the zoo?

MCGILL: Yeah, they had to move them, because they had to -- Saturday, they -- we went out and had a big cake, and did a farewell.

GEORGE STONEY: Oh, I'll be darned.

MCGILL: And uh, there's two of them.

GEORGE STONEY: That's a wonderful picture.

MCGILL: I belong to the Friends of the Birmingham Zoo. And uh --

GEORGE STONEY: But you're getting the cheetahs here, aren't you?

MCGILL: Uh-huh. But they got to take them away, (inaudible). And to learn how to reproduce, and carry on sex activities from another adult.

JAMIE STONEY: Huh. That would be rather interesting, because this is a state that uh, shut down half a dozen adult satellites and here they are showing -- 00:22:00showing adult movies to animals.

(laughter)

MCGILL: Uh-huh.

(break in video)

GEORGE STONEY: (inaudible)

JAMIE STONEY: I'm going in close. (pause)

GEORGE STONEY: (inaudible)

MCGILL: I don't know where my (inaudible) or where it may be. Mary gave me it on my birthday, and it's (inaudible) got it. Norma. (inaudible)

GEORGE STONEY: I never did (inaudible).

MCGILL: (inaudible) she can stand by you, it wasn't that (inaudible).

GEORGE STONEY: We never did ask you what you thought (overlapping dialogue; inaudible).

(break in video)

MCGILL: (laughter). Well, somebody knows -- they asked (inaudible) of course, I'm -- I wouldn't give him credit or nothing, just I occasionally (inaudible). I agree with him though. (inaudible) He was such a dud to me, 00:24:00they was not interested, because --

GEORGE STONEY: Well --

MCGILL: He's not -- he's not sincere.

GEORGE STONEY: Do you want to look right into my camera?

MCGILL: And that Nancy looks like a spider. Her daughter -- them daughters writing them books, (overlapping dialogue; inaudible).

HELFAND: -- so nice.

MCGILL: If one come into my hands some way, then I might read it, but I ain't paying no money for it.

GEORGE STONEY: (inaudible).

JAMIE STONEY: Count 30 seconds, then I'll go in and hold for 30.

HELFAND: (inaudible).

MCGILL: (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) read the Sunday paper, talking about (inaudible) [tarnish?] people, and (inaudible) name Richard Nixon.

GEORGE STONEY: As what?

MCGILL: As a smart man. And he may be smart, but he's a crook.

GEORGE STONEY: I know he's smart. Absolutely. But he's a crook.

MCGILL: He's a crook. He always has been.

HELFAND: (inaudible).

MCGILL: And (inaudible) over the years, they knew exactly what he was then.

GEORGE STONEY: No question.

MCGILL: This is all ego. And they knew exactly, he -- he didn't have to tell them, they knew exactly what he did. I said (inaudible) my hair, they was talking about it, Regan, or that he did know it or not, about the Iran Contra thing, so far, (inaudible) lady at the beauty shop said, what do you think Eula? She said, "Do you think that uh, that he knew anything about it?" I said, he didn't know about none of this, why would he know about that? (laughter) That ended the conversation. Yeah, I said he didn't know about nothing else in the world, why would he know about that?

HELFAND: (inaudible).

MCGILL: (inaudible).

(break in video)

MCGILL: -- something that important, the president ought to have somebody working for him that could have let him know about it. Huh?

GEORGE STONEY: I mean, absolutely.

JAMIE STONEY: (inaudible).

MCGILL: I was trying to think, well the owners is going around about that bank, BCCI, I was trying to remember something I -- I read so damn much, something a long time ago, about the bank (inaudible).

(break in video)

JAMIE STONEY: Enough of a hold?

HELFAND: Yeah.

JAMIE STONEY: Read that first line?

HELFAND: Yeah, Ms. Eula McGill worked with the Amalgamated Clothing and Textile, we cut off Workers union for 22 years--

JAMIE STONEY: Forty-two years.

HELFAND: And she has been a worker and labor organizer, a business agent, residing and working in Kentucky, Tennessee, and North and South Carolina, returning to Alabama in 1976 where she grew up, to become a joint manager for the North Alabama Board --

JAMIE STONEY: If you go any slower, it'll take forever (inaudible).

HELFAND: And Ms. McGill started her first job at age 14 at Dwight Mill, working 12 shifts, five days a week, (inaudible).

M1: Twelve shifts, 12 hour shifts, not 12 shifts.

HELFAND: OK, (inaudible) however the seventh week she made three (inaudible) dime being taken from her pay for the company doctor. She finished school in 1930, and took a job at (inaudible). She strongly believes in a union, and tending to take strong leadership in unions to make -- to bring people where they won't make mistakes that will hurt them in the long run. (inaudible)

M1: (inaudible) I think (inaudible).