Melton Ballard, James Ballard, and Robert Scarboro Interviews

JUDITH HELFAND: We've been surprised that in Gadsden, people have been very open about ta--

(break in audio)

JAMES BALLARD: -- (inaudible) because the labor problems, am I wrong, that that's why the plant went down? They closed the plant, moved --

MELTON BALLARD: Yeah.

JAMES BALLARD: -- everything out.

MELTON BALLARD: Yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: Let's go back down to you. Ready James?

JAMIE STONEY: Yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: OK, then. Uh, start, uh, asking your father about why he left the --

JAMES BALLARD: OK.

GEORGE STONEY: -- the, uh, plant, and then what he was up against, OK?

JAMES BALLARD: OK. GEORGE STONEY: The union was up against.

JAMES BALLARD: Wha-- now, dad, I don't understand how -- I know you worked at, uh, yo-- you know, worked at the mill, or wherever with papaw, but. You know? Uh, why don't you work there anymore? And why -- why did you leave there?

MELTON BALLARD: I just worked three years. Uh --

JAMES BALLARD: Were you working there when they had the labor problems?

MELTON BALLARD: Yes.

JAMES BALLARD: What, did they try to organize a union, or what?

MELTON BALLARD: Yeah, they tried to do it.

JAMES BALLARD: Was that when they closed it? Or is that why you left?

MELTON BALLARD: No, no. That's why the du-- uh, they done started to or-- organize it. I [really stepped?] to get my card one night. And it wasn't there.

JAMES BALLARD: The company had taken your card, you say?

MELTON BALLARD: Yeah.

JAMES BALLARD: What did -- do they takes the cards of the ones that are trying to organize?

MELTON BALLARD: Yeah. And my --

JAMES BALLARD: Did they split the employees for doing that? Was that (inaudible) --

MELTON BALLARD: Yeah, yeah.

JAMES BALLARD: -- (inaudible) who wanted to organize the others that didn't?

MELTON BALLARD: Yeah. They s-- discharged 64 in one week.

JAMES BALLARD: Well, so is that why you left?

MELTON BALLARD: Well, the reason I left, because they j-- they just had done it -- in other words, told me I was through.

JAMES BALLARD: What about papaw? Did he lose his card at the same time?

MELTON BALLARD: Yeah.

JAMES BALLARD: Or -- or he had -- had he already retired?

MELTON BALLARD: No, he was still there. Th-- they --

JAMES BALLARD: Both of you were -- were, uh, in the group then that tried to or-- get organized, whatever.

MELTON BALLARD: Yeah. That's right.

JAMES BALLARD: And papaw was one of the l-- leaders of (inaudible)?

MELTON BALLARD: Yeah, he was -- he was one of the leaders.

JAMES BALLARD: So he's fired. He's probably one of the first ones that -- that got his card picked up.

MELTON BALLARD: Yeah.

JAMES BALLARD: Well, did they -- that wasn't when they closed it though.

MELTON BALLARD: Was it?

JAMES BALLARD: Did they -- did they reopen under another name that --

MELTON BALLARD: Well, they --

JAMES BALLARD: -- without the union?

MELTON BALLARD: They striked. They had a strike. Had the strike because they couldn't get the company to do it. Recognize them. And the strike lasted 72 days.

JAMES BALLARD: Well, of course, there wasn't any kind of benefits back then like unions have now, where they could draw out of a sub-pay, or something like that.

MELTON BALLARD: No. Uh-uh.

JAMES BALLARD: What did, uh. Now, I don't understand. What did -- eh, did he -- did -- did papaw lose his job there f-- not to ever go back? Did they re-- they reopen the plant?

MELTON BALLARD: Well, after the strike, he asked for his job. But they -- they 00:03:00wouldn't give him his job back.

JAMES BALLARD: How old was he then?

MELTON BALLARD: I don't know. He was -- he was st-- in his 60s, but I don't remember exactly.

JAMES BALLARD: But he never went back in a mill after that?

MELTON BALLARD: Uh-uh.

JAMES BALLARD: What -- how did you all get by? I mean, what -- what'd you do? Live on what you made, or?

MELTON BALLARD: Well, we did. They just picked up little job here and yonder. Different things. Uh. Only there wasn't no such thing as drawing social security.

JAMES BALLARD: Wasn't any kind of state funds, or anything -- nothing available --

MELTON BALLARD: No, no.

JAMES BALLARD: -- to call. What, uh -- did, did he -- did most of the people get to keep their jobs if they -- if they weren't in with the ones trying to organize the union?

MELTON BALLARD: Yes, right.

JAMES BALLARD: So they pretty well knew who was and who was --

MELTON BALLARD: Yes, yes, yes.

JAMES BALLARD: -- and who was not trying to organize a union.

MELTON BALLARD: That's right.

JAMES BALLARD: Because I know when they closed the plant eventually, I was -- I 00:04:00was in high school. Remember when they fi-- closed it under another name. It was not Dwight Mills. It was W--

MELTON BALLARD: No.

JAMES BALLARD: Something else.

MELTON BALLARD: Um, Combe.

JAMES BALLARD: But -- Combe. They wer no-- they weren't union either, were they?

MELTON BALLARD: Uh-uh.

JAMES BALLARD: So after th-- this attempt to organize, the -- the -- that -- that particular plant never was a union plant. They never got -- they never go-- got an organization in there. What were they asking for? Just more money, or some type of benefits? Did they have any benefits?

MELTON BALLARD: Well, they was asking for eight hours a day. And they'd been working 12. And they wanted, uh, uh, regular wages. In other words, they wanted, uh --

JAMES BALLARD: Keep the same wages, but shorten their hours?

MELTON BALLARD: No, the wages was -- was supposed to been -- the NRA was supposed to have a $12 a week. And, uh --

JAMES BALLARD: When it figured on an hourly basis?

MELTON BALLARD: Well. You're supposed to work eight hour-- wh-- a-- asking for eight hours of the day.

JAMES BALLARD: Is that all they were asking for? Just shorter hours?

MELTON BALLARD: Shorter ho--

JAMES BALLARD: Money?

MELTON BALLARD: -- and, and, more pay.

JAMES BALLARD: Did any of the -- they -- were any of the -- were there any union plants in the south --

MELTON BALLARD: Hardly.

JAMES BALLARD: -- that you knew of? Cotton mills that were union?

MELTON BALLARD: No, I do--

JAMES BALLARD: Say, over in Macon, Georgina. Some of the (inaudible) --

MELTON BALLARD: (inaudible)

JAMES BALLARD: -- had big mills.

MELTON BALLARD: I didn't know about (inaudible).

JAMES BALLARD: I, I never knew he was -- uh, you know, I've heard you talk about -- about the problem they had, but I never knew that my -- that my grandfather was, you know, on the, uh, whatever. Committee or whatever they got up to, to try to organize. This thing's dated 1935, isn't it?

MELTON BALLARD: Yes.

JAMES BALLARD: United Textile Workers of America.

MELTON BALLARD: And he was one of the leaders.

JAMES BALLARD: That wasn't part of Gadsden, then, was Alabama City? Was a separate city?

MELTON BALLARD: I don't think they called it Gadsden. Not then.

JAMES BALLARD: Well this says, "Lo-- Local Number 187. Alabama, City, Alabama."

MELTON BALLARD: Yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: Well, what -- ask him what they were up against. Why it was so hard to organize.

JAMES BALLARD: OK. Wh-- wh-- why, what was the problem trying to organize? What, what, what, uh, what kind of problems did they have, trying to organize? What were they up against trying to get -- get it organized?

MELTON BALLARD: Well, they just, uh -- they felt that the people was trying to run something over on them, and, uh, they --

JAMES BALLARD: What, the company officials felt they were?

MELTON BALLARD: The company, they didn't like the idea of, uh, having to, um, pay them different wages, and hours different. They didn't like that idea. So they were --

JAMES BALLARD: What was it? Was there enough people unemployed that they wouldn't have any problem hiring other people?

MELTON BALLARD: (inaudible)

JAMES BALLARD: Well, I mean, did the, the people trying to organize, did they have anything to really give them any strength or any power, uh, as far as trying to organize, or ha-- to sit down at a negotiation table with the company? They have any bargaining power at all to -- were th-- they, they, did they just ask and they were turned down? Is that all that happened? Did they ever meet with them?

MELTON BALLARD: Yeah, they tried to meet with them. They tried to meet with them, but the company wouldn't, wouldn't meet.

JAMES BALLARD: They wouldn't sit down officially at a negotiation --

MELTON BALLARD: No, no.

JAMES BALLARD: -- table and try to talk it?

GEORGE STONEY: Ask him if they just thought they were a bunch of lint heads?

JAMES BALLARD: You know, it -- you know, they still refer to the term lo-- (inaudible) of the people from Alabama City that were into cotton as "lint heads." That -- they would just consider them lint heads, or illiterate, or just somebody they could just run in and out as they wanted to, or what?

MELTON BALLARD: Well, they --

JAMES BALLARD: They weren't educated very well, were they?

MELTON BALLARD: Now that's why -- a lot of the problems come up because some of them were -- were uneducated about the (inaudible). In other words, they were -- they didn't, uh, really know, uh, didn't really know about organized, uh, uh, labor. They didn't know about it. A lot of them were dumb about it.

JAMES BALLARD: Well who started it? Who got on the idea of organized labor on the -- locally, I mean? Just, did they -- you know, they see this happening in other plants, or somebody here just take it upon themselves to try to -- to get it organized, or?

MELTON BALLARD: Well, our -- our president of the local, at that time, fellow of the name Mulholland. He started talking about it, and got people interested. To tell him that [prior to that road?], we all had signed this -- signed this, uh, bill to -- where working men had the right to organize. And he started talking. I guess that's one of the reasons they made him 00:09:00president of the local. And from that (inaudible), he got it -- started talking. He got other people coming his way. And trying to -- and did explain to them what they would be getting if they were organized.

JAMES BALLARD: Well there was already a, a l-- a local union, then.

MELTON BALLARD: Yeah.

JAMES BALLARD: But, Dwight Mill was not a part of it.

MELTON BALLARD: No.

JAMES BALLARD: What -- what mill? Was there a mill in the town, and were they -- were they union? Was there a union mi-- was there a mill over there then?

MELTON BALLARD: There was a mill over there, but --

JAMES BALLARD: Back across from the hi-- an old high school. The old, uh --

MELTON BALLARD: That was, uh, that was -- Combe Mill.

JAMES BALLARD: Combe Mill. Were they union?

MELTON BALLARD: No. Combe. I don't believe they were union. I don't believe they were.

JAMES BALLARD: This local 187 was here, but you all just never became a part of it.

MELTON BALLARD: That's right.

JUDITH HELFAND: Actually, it was 1787. It's not written there. They were part of it. They had a charter. But they were never recognized.

JAMES BALLARD: OK.

HELFAND: So that was the problem.

JAMES BALLARD: This --

HELFAND: Everybody just tried it for a while.

JAMES BALLARD: It was just on paper. They didn't have any real power or any kind of bargaining power.

GEORGE STONEY: So they were out fa--

JAMES BALLARD: Yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: -- they were out for a lot of months.

JAMES BALLARD: Yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: A lot of weeks.

JAMIE STONEY: How long were they out?

MELTON BALLARD: Seventy-two days.

JAMES BALLARD: That's a lot of -- lot of days without a payday.

MELTON BALLARD: Yeah.

JAMES BALLARD: I'm sure there's a lot of folks hurting being out that long. I know I wouldn't want to be out of work that long.

MELTON BALLARD: See, they didn't have no strike benefits.

JAMES BALLARD: Well, what did people -- what, did they charge their groceries at a local store, or what?

MELTON BALLARD: Yeah. Now some of the merchants were good enough to let them have groceries. And a lot of them would just flat-footed refuse. They wouldn't let them [have?].

JAMES BALLARD: Well, I guess during this time, they -- when they saw this, this was not going to work, what [lobby?] would leave town, go somewhere else looking for work?

MELTON BALLARD: Yup. There's -- North Summit last year went to Columbus, Georgia.

JAMES BALLARD: Well, if most of the people were like -- like, like our family was, then you said, b-- papaw never owned a car. You all didn't own a car. How d-- (inaudible) drive buses, or what? What --

MELTON BALLARD: Yeah.

JAMES BALLARD: -- how do you get to these other towns? Just pack up what they -- personal things -- and just get on the bus and leave --

MELTON BALLARD: Yeah.

JAMES BALLARD: -- I guess.

MELTON BALLARD: That's right.

HELFAND: And there's one document there that says it's an injunction against violence. Yeah, the one in your hand?

JAMES BALLARD: "Permanent injunction for violence. Dwight Manufacturing Company." Yeah. I reckon that Carl Ballard's on there. That there, that's one of your cousins. He's first cousin, isn't he?

MELTON BALLARD: Yeah.

JAMES BALLARD: He did -- he, he left there, went to the steel plant in Public Steel. Rough steel wasn't up then.

MELTON BALLARD: Yeah.

JAMES BALLARD: He leave also because of the labor problems? Is that why he left? They get -- they take up his card, too, and he didn't have a job?

MELTON BALLARD: I don't -- I don't know about that. I just know he was a carpenter. He just left (inaudible). Went to work at the steel plant.

JAMES BALLARD: I asked him long ago. A lot of these names are family names of people that are still over in Alabama City. What about Carl's brothers? He had some brothers. Did any of them work over there?

MELTON BALLARD: Uh-uh. Uh-uh.

JAMES BALLARD: He was the only one? What about [Mont Leary?]? Did he work there during that time?

MELTON BALLARD: Oh, yes.

JAMES BALLARD: He stayed with (inaudible), didn't he?

MELTON BALLARD: Yeah.

JAMES BALLARD: He w-- he was -- he wasn't in on this bunch that lost his card, apparently.

MELTON BALLARD: No. Now, (inaudible) she could tell you more about that than I can.

JAMES BALLARD: (inaudible) they, they closed the mills here, he went to south Georgia to work.

MELTON BALLARD: That's right.

JAMES BALLARD: And then came back (inaudible) to work until he retired.

MELTON BALLARD: Yeah.

JAMES BALLARD: Chicopee Mills.

MELTON BALLARD: Yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: Well, when you were growing up in the mills, in the mill village, did you know -- did you or your friends know anything about all this organization?

JAMES BALLARD: No. See, I was born right here. You know, on the mountain. And, uh, we heard bits and pieces about. You know, mos-- most of what I remember was just the part about the -- the violence, you know. About people trying to come in and take their jobs while they were out on strike. And I -- I have thought about that. I'd probably be pretty much the same way if somebody tried to take my job, you know? I'd want to defend it, too. That-- that's about all I heard about -- I never knew much, anything about these, uh, uh, or about my grandfather even being on any kind of committee that tried to organize a union.

GEORGE STONEY: What did you learn in school about organized labor and Gadsden?

JAMES BALLARD: Well, around Gadsden, uh, when I went to school in the late '50s, and graduated in '61, there was two plants, basically. Or three. There was Goodyear Tire and Rubber Company, Republic Steel, and Allis-Chalmers. And that was the thing, then. If you got out of high school, get a job in any 00:14:00one of these three plants, you were there for life. If you ever got your foot in the door in any one of these plants, you were there. That's not the case anymore. Steel plant's exchanged hands twice. The Allis-Chalmers is out of business. And Goodyear's -- the boat's rocking, so.

GEORGE STONEY: But was there anything in your high school history classes or anything about unions?

JAMES BALLARD: Oh my God. Hmm.

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GEORGE STONEY: I think in my high school (inaudible).

JAMES BALLARD: No, I n-- I never me-- remember hearing anything at all mentioned about labor unions, locally or otherwise, in high school. Sure didn't.

GEORGE STONEY: What about the local papers?

JAMES BALLARD: I guess there was. I just -- I was too involved with something else, you know? I really didn't notice, you know.

GEORGE STONEY: OK. Thank you, very much. That's -- you're a great interviewer.

HELFAND: Really, you are.

GEORGE STONEY: (inaudible) OK.

HELFAND: Yeah. OK.

GEORGE STONEY: OK. [14:57]

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JAMIE STONEY: What was that?

M2: Oh, bag girl. To the bag girl over there?

GEORGE STONEY: Bag girl, could you come over here and stack my groceries?

JAMIE STONEY: Rolling.

(sounds of cars driving down the street)

MELTON BALLARD: (inaudible) inside?

M5: Yes.

HELFAND: (inaudible)

M6: Watch yourself, Whit.

GEORGE STONEY: OK. Let's try it again. OK. Come on.

(sounds of grocery cart being pushed)

F2: (inaudible)

M8: (inaudible)

M9: (inaudible)

M8: Yeah, I am.

F2: (inaudible)

M9: (inaudible)

F2: OK.

M8: OK.

M9: (inaudible)

GEORGE STONEY: That's fine. That's good. We (inaudible) take it any further than that.

JAMIE STONEY: (inaudible) on a close-up.

GEORGE STONEY: OK. One more time going (inaudible).

M10: You OK?

(break in video)

JAMIE STONEY: Speed. OK.

ROBERT SCARBORO: R.B. Kyle, Jr. used to come in and look at our old photographs quite often, and he'd sit around and talk about them. And he once related the story to me that he was on a trip to North Carolina with his grandfather. And he went in a private train car. And when they got to Atlanta, they hooked his train car onto a different train. And everybody on the train was talking about a group of men from Boston that were looking for land to build a cotton mill. And he said that his grandfather went to these men and told them that he would donate the land if they would build a cotton mill here. And that is supposed to be how we got the cotton mill in this area.

GEORGE STONEY: Now we've heard the stories about the -- the agreeing not to close the mill for 30 years. Do you know anything about that?

SCARBORO: No, I don't.

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah. OK. Let's try it one more time, Jamie. I think it's good. But when you -- d-- ri-- just going to fold that up and put it back in the shelf so you can --

SCARBORO: Well, there's always another one there that --

GEORGE STONEY: All right. Uh. Start.

SCARBORO: R.B. Kyle, Jr. used to come in quite often and look at our old photographs. He was the, uh, grandson of the Colonel Kyle, it was. Who was in the Civil War, of course. And he used to look at our photos and talk quite often. And he once told about going to North Carolina with his grandfather in a 00:21:00special train car. And when they got to Atlanta, they hooked this car to another train. And everybody on the train was talking about the men from Boston looking for land to build a cotton mill. So his grandfather went to these men and told him that he would donate the land if they would build a cotton mill here.

GEORGE STONEY: OK. Right. OK. [21:35]

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GEORGE STONEY: Speak. Mr. Scarboro, where did you get all these photos?

SCARBORO: Well, years ago, we had a customer bring in an album of old photos. About 1915 to 1920. And we reproduced them. And the people just seemed to be 00:22:00so interested, that we just started collecting them. And, uh, the collection has just been building. People now will bring them to me, because they know that I'm interested, and interested in preserving them for people on down the road. And it looks like it's going to be one of the few things that I'll have to pass on to my grandchildren. And, I -- we have prints come in every day, just about.

GEORGE STONEY: Tell us about the ones you have of the -- of the Dwight Mill. (inaudible)

SCARBORO: On the Dwight Mill. Oh, g--

GEORGE STONEY: That's all right. T-- tell us about --

SCARBORO: I'm sorry.

GEORGE STONEY: -- what you have of the d-- of the d-- of the, the Dwight Mill Village.

SCARBORO: On Dwight Mill Village, we have a whole album of just the mill and related activities, and another album on Dwight School, which, of course, was involved with the mill. And quite often, someone will come up, maybe with the 00:23:00same photograph, but a little more on it, that tells us more. That was how I learned the location of Dwight Inn. It was on the end of an aerial photograph, that the copy I had, it w-- had been cut off. But this copy that a customer brought in had it on it.

GEORGE STONEY: What about the Dwight Mansion? The Kyle Mansion?

SCARBORO: Uh, the Kyle home was out on Forest Avenue. And R.B. Kyle, Jr. used to come in and look at our photographs quite often, and talk about them. And h-- actually had brought me some of them. And he related a story as to how he was on a s-- special train car with his grandfather on a trip to North Carolina. And when it got to Atlanta, they hooked their car onto another train. And he -- everybody on the train was talking about men from Boston looking for a place to build a cotton mill. And he said his grandfather went to these men and told him that he would donate the land for the mill if they would build it here. So, 00:24:00that supposedly is how Dwight Mill located here.

GEORGE STONEY: Who was that young man?

SCARBORO: Uh, R.B. Kyle, Jr. Grandson of the, uh, Confederate veteran Colonel R.B. Kyle.

HELFAND: Is that a story that everybody in town knows?

SCARBORO: I've just told it to a few people. But I ha-- I have read it, so it is known. Somebody has written it up in the paper.

GEORGE STONEY: Now, one of the things that absolutely puzzles us is that we know there was a great big kerfuffle here, strike, labor struggles (inaudible) the '30s. And we haven't found a single picture of any of that. Do you know why?

SCARBORO: No. I couldn't say why. I -- I'd almost think that the mill ownership, being very influential at the newspaper, would stay away from it.

GEORGE STONEY: But that seems -- we don't have any newsreel footage. We 00:25:00don't have any, uh, we see some stories in the Birmingham papers, but again, no pictures. And we've got pictures from almost every other community.

SCARBORO: Yeah, I -- I can't say.

GEORGE STONEY: Would you say that we've made a thorough search?

SCARBORO: Yes, I would.

GEORGE STONEY: Do you get snapshots from people in, in -- from Dwight Mills in the '20s and '30s?

SCARBORO: Yes, we do.

GEORGE STONEY: Could you describe s-- some of the (inaudible) --

HELFAND: Could you show us some?

SCARBORO: Well, we just, uh, more or less assimilate them into our collection. And, uh, it takes a little time to make copies of them, and, uh, bring them up. And we actually have stacks of pictures that we just hadn't even had time to place in our albums yet.

GEORGE STONEY: But these are snapshots taken by amateurs who lived in the mill?

SCARBORO: Uh, yes. Some amateurs, and occasionally a professional shot. When I say professional shot, I'm usually thinking of school groups and things of that nature.

GEORGE STONEY: What's happened to the old, uh, portrait photographer that you used to see in every town?

SCARBORO: Well, we had a good many of them. Once of the most notable was over in Alabama City, P.C. Smith, who really covered this town with photographs. But, uh, he's gone now, and, uh. At one time I heard a rumor that his negative files were in the old building on top of the darkroom. So I went, uh, immediately went tearing over there, and the old darkrooms had been torn out, and there was nothing in the building. So I may have missed a real find there.

GEORGE STONEY: Do you have any other sources of photographs that you sho-- could suggest for us?

SCARBORO: Mmm, no. Uh, other than just locating the individuals who have them.

HELFAND: We -- can we stop for a sec?

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah. OK.

(break in video)

GEORGE STONEY: Tell us about Dwight Mills.

SCARBORO: Well, now, Dwight Mill, we have pretty good coverage of. We have several albums of the mill and related activities. And it's, of course a little hard to talk about that without including a little bit of Alabama City, too. But, we have customers and just the general public that knows we collect these photographs, and from time to time they bring them in to us. And in the c-- we're not interested in all of them. Not so much people, but of activities, and schools, and of course the mill itself.

GEORGE STONEY: What's the -- what are the favorite photographs?

SCARBORO: Uh, the gate out front with all the ivy on it. I'm not sure -- th-- that, that's what Dwight Mill is to a lot of people. When you talk about Dwight Mill, that's the image they think of, is that to-- round tower with the ivory growing all over it.

GEORGE STONEY: We had a lady last night describing it as a -- as, as a castle.

SCARBORO: Well, especially to a child, I can see and understand that the dispensary was in there, and that's where they would go when they had to go see the doctor.

GEORGE STONEY: Have you -- do people come in and talk about, uh, their memories in connection with these photographs?

SCARBORO: Yes, they do. And sometimes we pick up some good information that way. And at other times, they tell us thing that conflict with what other people have said. So we just try to walk down the middle of the road and listen 00:29:00to both opinions, and, uh, try to decide which one is the true one.

GEORGE STONEY: Uh, it must be difficult to date these things, and to identify the people in them.

SCARBORO: W-- uh, yes, it is. Uh, a lot of times you can date them within a few years by the clothing that they wear. But na-- so far as identifying them, uh, that's quite difficult.

GEORGE STONEY: OK. We -- we're interested in people who are preserving local history, and you've done one of the best jobs. Uh, what got you started?

SCARBORO: Well, an album that a lady brought in, made by her father-in-law. Uh, his name was (inaudible) [Lee Bird?]. And he had a motorcycle shop. And I know that he sold photographic supplies, and also took pictures of parades and 00:30:00activities and sold them to the public. And we copied some of these, such as the original Armistice Day Parade. And people were so interested in them, that we just started collecting them. And, uh, we now have over 4,000, and most of them are local. At first, I was only interested in local items. But now, I will latch on to just about anything that I see. [30:27]