Jerry's Discount Pharmacy and Burns Cox Interviews

JANET IRONS: You saved, and talking about why you saved them, and what they mean to you, and --

M1: OK. Because I came down to here and did it for one of the news channels, like ABC or NBC, somebody like that, and they came by and interviewed everybody.

IRONS: So now, we're doing just the same thing with textile workers.

M1: Mm-hmm. No problem, I know the textile workers, because my father worked in the cotton mill before uh, long before it went down, and found out that he needed to do something else and left it, and then his father and mother, and a bunch of them had grew up in textile mills. And when this one shut down, they went to Atlanta to a textile mill. So, you know, that's -- and they worked there until they retired, so you know, it's all textile workers.

IRONS: Mm-hmm. They worked at Dwight here?

M1: They worked at the Dwight, uh-huh, and it's been called Dwight Mills, Cone Mills, matter of fact we've got an old bucket from Cone Mills, uh, their fire bucket. It's really shaped like a cone, and that's how they done it just, you know, most people have the regular bucket for a fire bucket. When Cone 00:01:00Mills bought it, they changed it to a cone-shaped bucket, so, you know, stuff like that you just hang onto. And I got it when they were tearing down the mill.

IRONS: I see. Why don't you just take us on a tour of these photographs?

M1: OK, this photograph here was made before 1925. Uh, I'm not sure you can see it too good, there's a little glare on it, but uh, the reason we know it was taken before 1925, this building here was the old Dwight Inn, a big hotel-type thing, and it burned down in 1925, so we know it was made before then, and it is an aerial photograph. And my father got this picture, and this is an original picture that was made, or the original picture that was made, and the reason I like to keep it, because it shows all them cities that originally existed, and besides in this one, two, three, fourth house, that's where I grew up, no, third house, third house, I can't even count no more, it's been so long, but there's car lots all around it now, but my father still lives in 00:02:00that house there. So, and that's one reason I like to keep it, and you know, a lot of folks don't remember how Alabama City looked, or how it looked after -- or before they tore the cotton mill down.

IRONS: Now, how much of this is still standing?

M1: All of it, except for the cotton mill there. They tore down the cotton mill, brought in dirt to fill in the lakes and whatnot. And virtually every house is still standing, unless it was, you know, had burned down, but virtually every house is still standing. Except in this area here, this area here is a Jackson car lot now, but that's -- you know, that's progress, I guess you could say. But as far as everything else, it stands as it did then. Nothing's gone, and I don't know if that's good or not, but we're trying to get this area, a fellow that lives in this area, grew up in this area, he's a lawyer here in Gadsden now, he's trying to have this whole area changed to a historic area. And I'm trying to take our area here on Wall Street, which is 00:03:00to the little left of this picture right here, and have Wall Street changed to -- or North 27th Street changed to a historic area, too.

IRONS: OK. What is it that you want people to remember about this place?

M1: Uh, the best thing I want them to remember is that it was um, a close-knit neighborhood. Even though it was a textile mill or a mill village, as you'd call it, or as we grew up calling it, but everybody knew everybody, nobody was better than the other person, they all were virtually on an equal basis, and that you could walk out of your house and leave the door open, come back a week later, and nothing would be gone, not a thing. And it was a close-knit neighborhood, and I don't think we're going to have those neighborhoods ever again. That's what I like about it.

IRONS: (inaudible) What did your dad and mom do in the mill?

M1: I really don't know. I really don't know. I heard Daddy talk about being a slubber hand. Now that, I didn't want any part of the cotton mill, because I remember taking lunch across the street to a fence that they had 00:04:00there, and sliding it under there, and I didn't want any part of it. And matter of fact, I never seen inside the cotton mill outside of the dispensary, and the dispensary was in this area right in here. And I never seen the first bit of it until they were tearing it down. I had no intentions of working in a cotton mill. Just from listening to them talk, you know, but they didn't -- my grandmother and grandfather loved it, they loved the cotton mill, and like I say, when it was shut down, they followed it to Atlanta, and I just had no intentions. None whatsoever.

JAMIE STONEY: (inaudible).

IRONS: Yeah, we got to um, just keep on with your tour.

M1: OK. This right here is the old Dwight school. This was built by the cotton mill people, and it was tore down in 1946 or '36, 1936. And it was built for the education of the kids. And there's one interesting thing about this picture right here, I don't know if you can see it, but there's a little 00:05:00white building right here. This little white building was the first school that they had in this area, for just the cotton mill workers' children. And then it was later turned into a bowling alley before it was torn down, so that was the first school, and then this was the second school they built here. And then some of these other pictures here are just like, this is the Wall Street area, and the Wall Street area existed, it was the major hub of Alabama City. And at this time, Alabama City was much bigger than the Gadsden area, because we had the cotton mill over here, and then we had a steel plant not far from over here, about three or four blocks, and we were the major manufacturing hub, or industrial hub, of the Gadsden Etowah county area. And that's the reason, uh, we had such a thriving economy, until the Depression, you know? And so, this is a picture of Wall Street, and this is just some old pictures we have of the cotton mill here, and these are some -- uh, a picture of a store here in Alabama City, this was in the mill village. And this is a 1940s picture of Wall Street 00:06:00here when the cotton mill was still going. And this is a picture of old Dr. Higgins, who was an eye doctor, if I'm not mistaken, here on Wall Street. And then, uh, I got some more pictures in the back if you'd -- you know, if you'd like to see them.

IRONS: Oh, absolutely.

GEORGE STONEY: Let's move right around to the back (inaudible).

M1: OK. (inaudible). Oh, I'm sorry, (overlapping dialogue; inaudible).

GEOGRE STONEY: If you want to take a break and take five --

M1: Yeah, let me get his right there.

(break in video)

IRONS: (inaudible). Thank you.

GEORGE STONEY: (inaudible).

M1: (inaudible). See if somebody put the wrong one.

JAMIE STONEY: Rolling.

GEORGE STONEY: OK, OK go ahead then.

M1: I keep a few things from the old cotton mill that I uh, like to keep around, and uh, some of the pictures here are -- are really very interesting, and one of them I kept, and uh, I've got some of the folks' names on here, because this picture was made uh, July the 23rd, 1926. And an interesting thing I like to keep about this, first thing, this is my grandfather's picture right here, right there. And then, what makes it more interesting too about this picture, if you'll notice all the young kids working in here. I mean, back then, uh, it wasn't nothing for 10, 11, 12-year-olds to be working in a cotton mill, not even going to school at all, just working, you know? And that -- that amazes me to this day, you know, that uh, and then when some folks tell you they grew up 00:08:00in a cotton mill, by golly, they grew up in the cotton mill. But I -- I love that old picture there. And then I got some uh, other stuff of uh, Alabama City and the cotton mill. This is um, well this was a cotton mill paper, or one of them, the Alabama City News. This is from September the 9th, 1909.

IRONS: Who put that paper in?

M1: I'm not sure, but it was printed in [Itala?] of all places, they didn't even a printing place here, so they printed it in [Itala?]. But that's a goldie oldie right there. And then, uh, let's see, these uh, are some of the folks, these were cotton mill outings. They -- they used to have uh, barbeques, and I remember going to several of them myself, they had an area where you could go and uh, um, had a lake and whatnot, and then here's a little better picture 00:09:00you can see, these were all cotton mill workers. And these were made, these were back in the '30s -- late '30s, early '40s. And you know, this was in the paper, where Cone Mills aided the United Givers Fund. And I don't know the year on this, but the -- the photo was made by Harold Lockridge, who is a customer of mine, and he's a retired deputy sheriff. So uh, it's been a long time since that one was made. And then they even had -- this is cute, uh, these are postcards, this is a postcard of the cotton mill that they used to send out. I had a nice little booklet I -- that I've been looking for, but I got so much of this stuff packed up, but it had -- it was real neat, and then in 1929, they sent out little pamphlets to people up north, and it told all about the Alabama City area, the cotton mill area, and how much income, schools, and whatnot, trying to entice workers to come to Gadsden, or Alabama City, Alabama, 00:10:00to work. And it worked, a lot of them came. A lot of them came and never went back. Now that's an interior picture, I don't know if you can see it real good, I made this when they were tearing the cotton mill down. This is uh, my father told me, but I really can't remember, I want to say it's a weave room or something like that, you know? But uh, when -- when you -- when you don't work for cotton mills, and don't care to work the cotton mill, you don't really worry about what it is. See now, I've got some more pictures (inaudible) somewhere. And that's where -- I've got a color picture here somewhere I was wanting to show you.

IRONS: When did you start collecting these?

M1: Um, about 1970. I started about 1970, really some of this stuff, uh, here's a good color picture, right before they tore it down, right there, that's the way the backside of the cotton mill looked right there. And uh, 00:11:00I've got a brick from one of these stacks, not sure which one it is, because when they tore them down, they came down that quick, you know? And uh, I'll show that to you here shortly. And then here's another cotton mill picture of some of the folks that worked there, this was made on August 4th, 1926. This is employees of the cloth room. And these look a little bit older than the ones in the other picture, so this must have been the easiest job, is what I can figure, you know, because they done a lot by seniority.

IRONS: Yeah, now do you know people in this?

M1: Now these folks I don't know. I don't know any of these folks.

IRONS: Do you suppose they were out on a picnic here, or?

M1: Uh, from the looks of it, it was made somewhere behind the cotton mill, because um, I want to say the lake area, that's right behind the cotton mill, this was made in the lake area, because part of the lake was like, for fishing, another part swimming and picnicking. And that's the way they worked it. Now this is real interesting, this was uh, made during uh, World War II, I believe, 00:12:00about through the mill. Where they uh, were showing that the, you know, it's kind of forward, the gate's open, and that it's more than just brick and steel. And uh, then you start here with uh, you know, different places like the uh, first operation where they're bringing it in, the picker house. The card room. That's where it was at, card room. There's the same uh, things as -- that I showed you, the old -- or recent picture of. And uh, then we go in here, this is the drawing room, and then the schlubber room.

IRONS: You think that's where your dad worked?

M1: I think that's where my dad worked there, and I know my uh, dad was a schlubber, and uh, he left the mill about the time they was trying to unionize it, because he was for the union at the time, you know, and they had a lot of trouble then, and that's when he found out he needed to leave the cotton mill.

IRONS: So you --

M1: Because they would not unionize, you know, the company fought it, the company definitely fought the union. I can't -- I can't say the word unionization, of the uh, cotton mill. So, that's the reason he left, but this, I -- I know he did work there, because they told me he had to really work fast. And then uh, this gentleman trades with me now, his name is Dorsey Simmons. And uh, that's -- I think that's doffing? They had to work pretty fast too, they had to have good hands is what I understand.

IRONS: You got those stories from your dad about how fast they had to work?

M1: Yes, ma'am. Dad and Granddad, Grandma, like I said, they all worked there. And uh, this was an aerial view of the cotton mill also, but this is much later than the picture I showed you up here, because uh, the big Dwight Inn is already gone, this is the library that's up here on the corner, and now that's -- that's got a lot of Alabama City cotton mill history in it, too.

IRONS: Mm-hmm. We're going to be going there later.

M1: Because -- uh-huh, because it was a library to start -- I mean, a post 00:14:00office, United States post office first, then they added the library to it, just a one room library. And uh, let's see, let me just go through to here. And this just shows you all the operations of the cotton mill. Like I said, this was made up here. These were all pictures of the mill at the time, and when it operated, it was state of the art, really and truly. I mean, everybody's always told me that. And then uh, this fellow here trades with me. His name is Noble Payne, he's still alive, he's uh, uh, I don't know much about this, like I say, this is a drawing room, and then you've got your inspection. And uh, you know, final test, and then off to market. And then it shows uh, Dwight Village. This was one of the things they gave out to folks too, and then this is the nursery school, this is uh, already a historic building, I don't know if they've took you to it up there yet or not, but uh, I only stayed in there a day or two, but uh, I've had cousins, uncles, and whatnot that spent a lot 00:15:00of days in there, you know? And uh --

IRONS: You mean it was operating when you were a child?

M1: Oh yes, ma'am. Definitely, definitely, they -- that's where the workers took their kids, that was their way of uh, taking care of -- you know, they took care of everything, really, almost. Uh, they had a doctor up there with a dispensary, and then they had the nursery behind it. And uh, the only thing they really didn't have was a company store, you know, that a lot of other folks had. And uh, and these were things that showed what uh, cloth was used for. And this is George Nichols, and uh, the library's named after him or his brother, I'm not sure. One of the Nichols it was named after, they call it the Nichols library. And uh --

JAMIE STONEY: (inaudible) that stuff together.

(break in video)

(indistinct voices in background, inaudible)

JAMIE STONEY: So you were a dinner [toter?] for your dad?

M1: Yes sir, definitely. I'll never forget those plastic jars -- or not jars but um, you know, with the lids on them, I forget what you called them back then, they'd just come out with them, you know, and you could take hot food across and that was my job, cutting across over there to get him, to make sure he ate. You know, he'd come meet me at the fence, he'd eat it, I'd take 00:17:00it back. But this right here, it came out of the smokestack when they knocked the smokestacks down. And this right here, you know, like I said, I always hang onto this one, I know where it's at, I know which one it is, it can't get mixed up with any of the others. And if you look at it, that thing stood, they built that mill in the 1890s, I can't even remember the exact date, but that brick's been around a long time, it's been outside, it's been fired, it was a fire brick, it was used on, you know, on a smokestack, and they don't make them that good no more. (laughter)

IRONS: How did you get that brick?

M1: Uh, I went up there and got it when they -- (laughter) when they knocked it down. I really felt bad going up there and getting some of the things I got. I -- I got to thinking well, you know, some of this stuff it's not right, going up there and getting it, but they were doing nothing -- all they were doing was hauling it off to the dump. Except for the bricks, now they did sell the bricks. They sold bricks, these bricks are in houses, buildings, walls, you name it, all over Alabama right now, because they had so many bricks in that building, and they just -- they went like hotcakes, people were up here getting 00:18:00them, because you cannot get this type of brick anymore, anywhere. And so when they knocked it down, I just made my traipse across there, because like I said, my father lived directly across from it, and I just walked over there like everybody else and picked me up one.

IRONS: How many people in uh, Alabama City do you think saved a brick just like you?

M1: Very few, very few, because uh, after I asked them, nobody thought about it. Nobody thought about it. Like I said, I went in there before they knocked it down and got one of their old fire extinguishers, old fire buckets, stuff like that, you know, just for my own use, nothing else, you know? Uh, because well, that's history to me. I mean, it was my life up until then, and I just said, well I'm going to get something out of it. And like I said, I felt guilty, but then like I say, they loaded everything up on dump trucks and hauled it off for landfills, and -- and then I didn't feel guilty anymore.

IRONS: Well thank you for showing us this stuff.

M1: Oh, you're mighty welcome. Just glad I could help you.

IRONS: OK.

M1: Just glad I could show them to you.

IRONS: OK. OK. Well, we appreciate it, we'll be back again.

M1: OK. And if you need to talk to any more folks, I'll be glad to line up anybody you want, because we -- you wouldn't believe some of the old folks that still live in this area that, that's the only job they ever had, the only -- only job they've ever known.

GEORGE STONEY: Yes. Thank you very much.

M1: You're mighty welcome. I hope that was some help.

IRONS: It was great. It was great.

GEORGE STONEY: It was beautiful. And what we'd like to do is come back with our copy stand and copy those photographs.

M1: Oh, yes sir. If you want to do that, I'll -- if you let me know about a week ahead of time before you get here, I'll get you some stuff. I mean some stuff to look at.

GEORGE STONEY: Well what we'd like to do is later on this week, just to come back, we've got a little copy stand, we won't have to take them out of the building.

M1: Right. All right, I'll round you up some more pictures. What day do you think you'll be coming?

GEORGE STONEY: Probably Thursday or Friday.

(break in video)

[Silence]

JAMIE STONEY: We have speed.

GEORGE STONEY: OK, yes.

IRONS: So tell me about how your father and his family came to this mill.

BURNS COX: Well, back in them days, my father and brother was farmers up in Jackson County. And it was a judge, Judge [McCoy?], come up there in a buggy, riding the countryside, trying to find help for this mill. So he talked to him and told him if he come down, moved down there, they'd pay all the transportation, set him up, give him a house to live in, and they could pay the bills back whenever they got able. So, my father and mother, what clothes they could take, no furniture, went to Huntsville and got on the boat, come up to [Gonerville?] and got off this boat in Gonerville, onto a train, and the train brought them down here to (inaudible) station, and they got off, and they were 00:22:00carried up here to what's called the old Dwight Mill Inn, the old Dwight Square Mill Inn. It was a rooming house. They put them up there for two or three days, they found a house, and then they moved them out of there into the house. They went up there at the old company store, picked out what they wanted, a stove, wood and everything like that, and the company financed it, where they had to pay it back in the long run, so much a week every once in a while. (inaudible) coming up there, my father furnished himself, three brothers, two sisters, three sisters, to the mill, all of them went to work for the mill. At that time I wasn't born. I didn't come along until 1912. But now, that's the way that my folks were enticed by Judge McCoy to come to the 00:23:00city of Gadsden, or Alabama City, rather, and put his people to work.

IRONS: And you -- you think Judge McCoy did that with lots of families (overlapping dialogue; inaudible)?

COX: Oh yes, that was his job, he was circuit court here, circuit judge, that was his job to get out and solicit help for the mill. Now, I don't know the complete history on the mill, but my best knowledge to the mill is from the old people that I talked to, and when they opened this mill up in 1985, it was opened up uh --

GEORGE STONEY: Sorry, start again, 19-- 1895.

COX: Eighteen ninety-five.

IRONS: Yeah, that --

GEORGE STONEY: Start -- start again.

IRONS: When they opened this mill?

COX: When they started the mill up in 1895, they imported a boatload of Italians from Italy over here and started this mill up with Italian labor. Now I do remember my young days, a bunch of the old Italians still here that helped start this mill up. There wasn't enough people around. That was the reason Judge McCoy was out soliciting for help.

IRONS: You remember uh, what the terms were when the mill got started? That uh, somebody gave them some land, or?

COX: The land, the -- the Dwight, I mean, I believe it was [Kyle?], best that I remember now, my apologies, Kyle Real Estate donated them the land over here, providing they build houses and all. And the mill was original from Chicopee, Massachusetts. That's the origination of the old Dwight Mill, Chicopee, Massachusetts. So they sent all their help down here, and the (inaudible). But when this town was formed in here, I did not see it myself, I wasn't old enough, but I've talked to people around here in my house, they said they saw the lumber cut and stacked up to make this house, they had a sawmill, they dragged it from one pile to another, cutting all this pine timber down. And that's what these houses built of, out of all of this pine thicket in here. Of course, uh, they improved a little later on by adding additional houses here, 00:25:00and all. But the old original houses was built out of the wood that was cut off the land here, and the best that I remember, it was a forest, it came from the land.

IRONS: OK. Tell me about when you first started working in the mill, what year that was, and what your job was.

COX: I went to work in Dwight Mill up here in 1900 -- September, 1926. And at that time, there was a law that said a person can't work over eight hours a day if he's under 16. Well I forget the child labor law. So, I got on what they called the nine o'clock crew. I come in at nine o'clock, and if a sweeper wanted off, I'd go in there and let him off at 9:00, and I worked that job until I reached 16. And when I reached 16, then I went to work on the 00:26:00night shift, which we were working 12 hours a night. Eleven hours and 45 minutes a night. And things was pretty fair back in them days, in the '20s, especially before the crash. Because I was making more money up here in Dwight than the Goodyear workers were making over at Goodyear.

IRONS: You're talking about the Goodyear rubber plant?

COX: Plant. See, when they started up over there at 25 cents an hour, that was it. I was making more than that, I'd make $15 a week up here. I didn't quit and go over there.

IRONS: So people didn't complain about the money at the Dwight Mills?

COX: (inaudible) back then. Back then in them days, $15 was $15. At all.

IRONS: And how were the working conditions?

COX: The working conditions was fair, until the stretch out system come into effect. That was put in in the '30s.

IRONS: Tell me about that.

COX: Well, they changed the machinery up here in the mill. They brought some 00:27:00old machinery down here, from one the mills up in Massachusetts. Different machines, see we started up on (inaudible) and Mason frames, that's spinning in there. And old looms. They finally got the (inaudible) they had some frames in, and they brought them some other different machinery in here with it. And when they did, they said that then, they -- we could take on more labor. And they eased the stretch out on, as they called it. Made us double up. Sometimes it could work solid five hours, and never stop. Just one, one, one, like that. Only when you had to go to the bathroom.

IRONS: So when people use the term stretch out, what do they mean?

COX: That means that you've got more now, see they couldn't keep up hardly. And (inaudible). Now Grady Kilgore, he talked to, when he started working up there, he was spinning on three sides.

IRONS: OK.

COX: A spinner, when his mill went down, was spinning 18 sides.

IRONS: Oh my goodness.

COX: He was learning.

IRONS: What does that do to a person who's working that many sides?

COX: He did -- the -- the manual labor is not too much on him, but it's continuing all the time. Continuing all the time.

IRONS: Well now, when the crash came, the Depression came, and the NRA came in, you remember those years.

COX: Yeah.

IRONS: Yeah. And uh, you got married right around that time.

COX: I married in -- in uh, December, I mean uh, November of '32.

IRONS: OK. OK. And then the next year, uh, the Dixie Federation of Labor was formed.

COX: We -- we (inaudible) formed, we was formed when I -- before I married.

IRONS: Oh, you were?

COX: We were trying to get together, you know.

IRONS: Well now tell me about that.

COX: Well, there's a bunch of the old people (inaudible) Calloway, and uh, 00:29:00Walter Pearson, my -- Mr. [Lawson?], and there's a bunch of them, old Rufus Garrett, and all, we got together and decided we wanted a union, and we had to go into the woods up here to make our meetings. (inaudible). But then the NRA went into effect, and we got brave. And we came out of hiding, and we started up then working on a union of our own. The company didn't bother us too much, they just had spies down there, of course they kept up with it. We had our meeting down here at Canterbury Station, over in the old cargo building there. We formed our own president, we wrote our own bylaws, constitution, and made it legal by -- by putting it in writing at the courthouse. And uh...

IRONS: Can you go back --