Susan Plyler and Blanton Smith Interviews

 JUDITH HELFAND: You know, in a lot of the communities that we've went to, people have been really afraid to talk. They've been afraid to talk about the 1934 strike, they've been afraid to talk about their involvement with unions, some of them have gone on to live in big houses and have a lot of money, and they don't want to be associated with it. But, I'd say even people that are still living in the villages have a tough time talking about what happened 57 years ago. And I want to know why is it so hard? Could you -- I mean, why is it so hard for textile workers still living in the textile village, in the community, to talk about the union movement, to talk about things that are going to be tough to talk about?

SUSAN PLYLER: I think it's hard for people that have lived their whole life in a mill village to talk about issues that um, for instance, like the -- the strike back in 1934, um, my dad was just a boy, and he remembers some things 00:01:00about it, but he -- he doesn't talk very much about it. He -- he -- he just -- he's told me just real basic things about that, like he remembers following along when they had a parade, the organizers of the union then, they -- they had a parade up Seventh Street where he lived in Kannapolis. But when I ask him for details, because I'm hungry to learn that, I really want to know what it was like for him, but he doesn't tell me, he -- you know, he says well, I don't remember, you know, that's all I remember about it. And I guess to me, maybe it's hard for folks who um, were involved in that time, because it was a painful experience for people, I would think. And I've tried to imagine what it would be like if I lived in that time. Um, I think some folks might have believed that it was OK that the mill called out the National Guards to put down the strike. They might have thought that was just a good thing to do, you know, 00:02:00that jobs were being protected, it was a good thing. Some people might have a feeling that it was just a wrong thing that happened, and it's hard to talk about things that are painful like that, I don't know. Uh, I've tried to understand that so much, and it's made me really wonder too about why is it so hard for people, for the -- the system somehow to let us know what our history is? I don't understand what it is that -- that makes it hard for um, the mill, you know, why don't they want people to know what happened in 1934? That's a question that I have, why didn't -- why don't they make that available for people to know? But I've lived in this town my whole life, and I never found out about the strike until a year ago, and it's only been through reading and um, you know, people who -- talking to people who -- who know what happened, but those folks are from other places, they're not from Kannapolis. People here aren't talking about it. And I -- I think that's hard.

HELFAND: Yeah. Could -- you know, we were just before talking about the fin-- the responsibility you have towards your community, and you want to show what you -- you care about it, and you live here and you stay here, and you work towards making it better, and at the same time, you see things that you do want to speak out about. And that puts you in a funny position, I guess.

PLYLER: Yeah.

HELFAND: And it puts everyone who we've spoken to in a funny position. But yet, there's a group of you, not a large group, who've decided to talk. Could you talk about that responsibility? You could even talk about writing your stories, and what your teacher has said to you, or what you've said back to him?

JAMIE STONEY: Excuse me.

GEORGE STONEY: OK?

JAMIE STONEY: We're OK.

PLYLER: Oh, since I've lived here my whole life, I've -- I've thought a lot about how hard it is to speak out. Um, there's a part of me that feels a real responsibility to only talk about the good things, and -- and there have been a lot of good things about living in this town, and I love it, it's my home. And I -- I value it, but I think it's really important for us to 00:04:00understand the things that haven't been so good, too. Um, like I think it's important for us to understand about the 1934 strike, I just feel like it's -- it's good for people to know our history. Um, and I guess I've wondered a lot of times what makes it so hard for us to speak out, and I think it's because people worry about their friends getting angry about them, about them doing that, you know, if you -- they'll worry about if they say something bad about living here, then people won't care for them anymore, or they -- they won't fit in. And --

GEORGE STONEY: Now, this may be putting words in your mouth, and if you object to it, please don't. But, we made an original assumption that people would be proud of what happened in '34 because at least some people had the courage to stand up.

PLYLER: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE STONEY: We haven't necessarily found that. Could you speak about that?

PLYLER: Well, I've -- I've thought a lot about what it would have been like if I had had a family member who was involved in the strike. And I would feel really proud, and I would want to speak out about it. Um, but that hasn't happened to me, so I don't really have that experience, you know? Um, I guess maybe some people are afraid this -- to talk about it, because it -- it just draws back from their history that they've never really had a chance, they've never felt like it was a comfortable, safe place to talk about it.

GEORGE STONEY: Do you think that if more people from the -- the group, your Piedmont Peace Project you're working with, knew about the fact that 250,000 textile workers had the courage in '34 to stand up for their rights for at least three week, that it would -- that it would be an image that they could associate with, and maybe gain strength from?

PLYLER: One of the reasons that I feel like it's so important for working people now to have a history -- do I need to stop?

GEORGE STONEY: Yes, you've got to.

PLYLER: Because I think --

HELFAND: Talk to George.

PLYLER: OK.

JAMIE STONEY: Rolling, speeding. OK.

PLYLER: One of the reasons that I think it's so important for working class people to understand our history is that it -- it -- it gives you a sense of power from the past. No, it -- it helps me to know that -- that there were -- there was a union in Cannon Mills, that there were union members. I never knew that when I was growing up. And I think that's a powerful thing to understand. Um...

GEORGE STONEY: Uh, what about the business of that -- there was a time when 250,000 textile workers who were pretty well regarded at that time as -- as helpless victims or uh, too weak to do anything, did have a skillful 00:07:00organization and did get all these people out? Could you talk about that?

PLYLER: I can talk about this thing that I've thought about in that -- in that sense. Since I've lived here all my life and not had a sense about labor history in our area, I've -- I never knew that textile mill workers back in the '30s were even organized. I didn't know that. And I think it helps me, uh, I just feel a real strength from the past in knowing that. And I feel like if more people -- if more workers knew that now, I think it would break through the barriers that keep people from speaking out. You know, I -- I've always assumed, up until now, that textile workers in the South didn't have a history of speaking out, that they just didn't like unions, they didn't want the union in, and I never realized that we've had that, we do have that heritage 00:08:00here, and you know, when I was working in the mill I never knew that, and I've never known it until just the last year or so. And I think -- I think that would give people a -- a real sense of um, sort of a legacy in a way that they didn't know they had before. And I think it would help people that are -- that are on their jobs now speaking out for the union in this drive now, I think that it would make them even stronger to have known that um, maybe some of their parents, or maybe some of their grandparents were out there fighting back in 1934, and if I was a worker in the mill now, and had that -- if I knew that, I would feel really proud and strong about it, and I'm really happy for the ones that do have that.

GEORGE STONEY: Beautiful. That's lovely.

(break in video)

PLYLER: OK. Well I would like to see, in Kannapolis, some museum or something, uh, that would -- that would tell the real story, and I've gone up to the museum that's in -- in the Cannon Village several times, but it never really 00:09:00dawned on me how it could be different until I made a trip up to Massachusetts and visited Lowell, Massachusetts, and I went into a museum there, and they tell the whole story. You know, they -- they really -- they tell everything that happened in a very truthful way, and the mills aren't still running in Lowell like they are here, and I -- in my mind, that's -- that's why they're not -- why they are so honest about it. Um, they tell their whole -- the whole history, um, whereas in this -- I'm not doing this very well, but in the -- in the museum that we have in Kannapolis for the mill, we -- you don't get the -- the pictures, there's nothing about the 1934 strike there, there's nothing about that, um, they have different towels that they've made through the years, and different advertising uh, layouts and -- and things, and that's important, I mean it's -- it's good to know that. But I guess I would be 00:10:00hungry to know about more of the real history, I'd like to hear about what's happened to the workers over the years, and I'd -- I'd just like to have a stronger sense of -- of the real history.

HELFAND: Do you want to -- could you be specific and in a short way, say this is what has been preserved, even talk about the Cannon Mill Village, or the houses, or anything, or even Loop Road and the streets, or that kind of thing, in regards to --

PLYLER: I don't know what I could say about that. I mean, I don't really know what to say.

HELFAND: OK.

GEORGE STONEY: OK.

HELFAND: That's great.

GEORGE STONEY: OK, now Jamie --

JAMIE STONEY: Hmm?

GEORGE STONEY: -- uh, we'll unhook you, we want to get a shot of the house.

JAMIE STONEY: Well while we've got her here, let's get tone.

(break in the video)

GEORGE STONEY: OK.

PLYLER: I'd really to say is that I'm really proud of working class people, you know? I really take a great amount of pride in saying that I'm a working class person, and I've worked in the mills, and I -- I just feel like, you 00:11:00know, I want our story to be told, I want people to understand what has really happened.

GEORGE STONEY: You might tell Ed that, say that again, and say how you are helping that, because you're writing short stories.

PLYLER: Oh.

JAMIE STONEY: OK.

HELFAND: And even the work that you're doing --

(break in video)

GEORGE STONEY: So you talk to uh --

HELFAND: Me.

PLYLER: I'm sorry, I get sidetracked.

JAMIE STONEY: No, that [statement?] should be (inaudible).

PLYLER: Well, I just -- as a working class person, I really have a strong sense of pride in being able to call myself working class. I like it that I've worked in the cotton mill in Kannapolis, and I feel really proud of that. And I like living in the mill village, you know, we have our problems but we -- we are working in organizations like Piedmont Peace Project to change things, and I'm -- I'm really proud of being able to -- to have a part in that. But I guess that one of the things that I've enjoyed so much too is knowing that there is a way to keep our heritage, I guess, and -- and one of the things that I'm enjoying doing is writing stories about being a working class person, and -- and 00:12:00being um, a mill worker. And I love to write short stories, and that's one place that I feel like I can write as a working class woman, and I'm -- I feel really good about that.

GEORGE STONEY: Good. Very good.

JAMIE STONEY: OK. (inaudible)

GEORGE STONEY: OK. Now, let's -- let's --

JAMIE STONEY: (inaudible)

GEORGE STONEY: OK, everybody quiet. (pause)

HELFAND: That's 30 seconds.

GEORGE STONEY: OK.

(break in video)

(pause)

(inaudible)

JAMIE STONEY: Hang on, hang on, hang on. Don't, don't, don't. Damn.

GEORGE STONEY: OK, one more time please, for safety.

M: [Come on?].

(pause)

JAMIE STONEY: (inaudible) OK, we'll [start?]. Um --

(break in video)

BLANTON SMITH: Yeah. Blanton Smith.

JAMIE STONEY: OK.

GEORGE STONEY: OK, that's about the tone. OK Jamie, you ready?

JAMIE STONEY: Yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: Rolling?

JAMIE STONEY: Yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: All right sir, could you tell me how your family got to Kannapolis?

SMITH: We moved from uh, Anderson, South Carolina, to Kannapolis in 1924. My 00:15:00father was a -- he learned to weave down in Anderson, and they didn't have no weavers job, and so he came to Kannapolis and went in Cannon Mill, and they asked him how many children he had to go to work, and he -- he told them that he had five, so Mr. Cannon says, "Well, we got house for you, and you come -- come to work the next day." So they moved this family out that had less than children than we did, and we got the five room house, and the ones with the small family, they had to go in a four room house.

GEORGE STONEY: Could you tell us what your -- various members of your family did, and how old you were, and when you went into the mills?

SMITH: Well I uh, when we came here, you had to be 14 years old to go to work, so Papa had -- we had 14 -- I mean five children to go to work then, then we had some children coming back up, you know, 10 and 11 years old, well when I went to 00:16:00-- into the mill, I -- I was 14. But I just couldn't work in the mill, I mean the mill wasn't cut out for me, and I just -- I'd go in, and get on the mill -- go to work, and I'd -- he'd give me a job, and freight train come through town, and I'd get on that freight train and leave. I just couldn't work in the mill. But Mr. Cannon was good to -- good to all of us, and I don't know what we would have did if it hadn't been for Mr. Cannon, for we -- there we were with this big family, and we didn't have no education, we'd -- none of the children had no education or anything, and he gave us all a job, and we worked hard, and now all of my children -- all of my sister's children and everybody's got a college education, so he was good to us.

GEORGE STONEY: Could you tell us what happened uh, you remember what happened here in 1934?

SMITH: Yes, I was -- I don't -- yeah. They uh, tried to form -- the union came in, and -- and they were --

GEORGE STONEY: (inaudible) 1934.

JAMIE STONEY: (inaudible).

(break in video)

JAMIE STONEY: And we're clear.

GEORGE STONEY: All right sir, 1934.

SMITH: Well in 1934, they -- they came down here and tried to organize. And uh, it -- it got pretty rough back in them days, they told -- said what all they was going to do, and everything, and it just didn't -- they had these flying wedges and all that stuff to go in, and scared us all to death down here, but it -- it -- and it just didn't get in. They never did get it voted in or nothing else.

GEORGE STONEY: Did you see any of that yourself?

SMITH: Oh yes. Yes.

GEORGE STONEY: Describe it.

SMITH: Well, back in them days, there weren't much going in here. And every -- anything like that, especially when you're 13, 14 years old, you want to see everything going on. So they brought the National Guards in, and -- and 00:18:00everything, put them around the gates and everything like that, and they formed squads in town that was going to keep them out and all stuff like that. It was -- that was all we had to do was just watch them going on, seeing what was happening.

GEORGE STONEY: Now we have pictures of a National Guard -- we have newsreels of the National Guards coming in, in what look like furniture trucks, and unloading in front of the -- the headquarters, you know, the old -- the mill headquarters.

SMITH: Yeah. I think it was -- can I go?

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah. Yeah.

SMITH: Are you going to --

(break in video)

JAMIE STONEY: OK, we're clean.

GEORGE STONEY: All right, sir.

SMITH: They would come in and uh, back in them days, we had the YMCA, and the [Mariella Hall?] was right up there where you were taking those pictures of the church there. And uh, that's where they -- everything would take place up there, that was the main gate and everything, and that's -- they could let 00:19:00them in so far, and that was all they -- what happened there.

GEORGE STONEY: Did you talk with any of the National Guard, anything like that?

SMITH: Oh yeah, well -- you know, as kids do, you ask them, especially you figure you might go and join the Army or something like that, and you ask them how it was and stuff like that, you want to find out, for you didn't think that you wanted to work in the cotton mill, so you're figuring yourself, maybe you'll get you a career in the Army.

GEORGE STONEY: How did your family feel about all of this?

SMITH: Well, it tore everybody up. For see, the way my family was, my family was you give the people that you work for a day's work if they gave you a day's pay. And Mr. Cannon back in them days, he would -- he would -- he would take your -- I mean, we were paying 4 and $5 a week rent for a five room house --

GEORGE STONEY: (inaudible)

(break in video)

SMITH: Let's see, where were we?

GEORGE STONEY: You were uh, how did your family feel?

SMITH: Well, my family -- my family, they -- they didn't know nothing about the union. I mean, they had heard of it, they'd heard that you come in, and you -- the union would come in and take the money and leave town, and they were scared to death. They were scared to death that they -- they would get in, and people would start fighting and stuff like that, and that's -- that's what they were scared of. They were actually scared of a union.

GEORGE STONEY: And you mentioned their attitude towards Cannon giving you a day's wage.

SMITH: Well Mr. Cannon, the way my people felt, like if you gave a pay -- if a man gave you -- if you gave a man a day's work, he would give you a day's pay. And Mr. Cannon would do that. He'd work you hard, now he would work you, but he'd give you a day's pay.

GEORGE STONEY: Did you -- how did your family uh, feel about working in the cotton mill, and living in the cotton mill village?

SMITH: Well, they liked it, for that's all we knew, we didn't have no -- we were -- we were people from the farm, and we didn't have no education. We couldn't go nowhere else. We're the luckiest people around that or-- ordinarily, we should have been on welfare. But it was our foundation for -- I mean, the way we lived, and -- and no more than we had, we should have been on welfare, but we had the foundation with our mother and father gave us our foundation, and Mr. Cannon gave us a job to work, and that's what way we come through it.

GEORGE STONEY: Now, what happened to you after? Why did you have to leave town?

SMITH: Well, I -- why I left town, my -- I used to run away all the time. I just -- he'd give me a job, and I -- I just couldn't -- I'd go to the mill, and I'd work two or three days, and I just -- I just couldn't work in the mill, I was just -- I was a roamer, I'd start -- I left home when I was -- 00:22:00I guess I was 14 -- before I was 14. And I just -- I'd go anywhere, the freight train would come through and I'd get on that freight train, and I'd go anywhere that freight train went. I went to the -- in Washington, when the um, World War I veterans went -- went to Washington for their pension, I was in town, and that freight train came through -- we called it then a bean train, and that thing was just loaded down, you couldn't hardly have a seat on it. Well I got on that thing and I went to Washington, I stayed up there, and I sold newspapers in Washington about six months, stayed, come back home. And that's what -- that was my life, I was just a roamer.

GEORGE STONEY: I want you to tell that again, because I think you went up there with the bonus marchers, didn't you?

SMITH: Yeah, the -- yeah, that is -- they were World War I --

GEORGE STONEY: OK, would you explain this? Because we know in history that -- and call them the bonus marchers, because -- so could you use that?

SMITH: Well that -- the way --

GEORGE STONEY: This was in 1932, wasn't it?

SMITH: Was it -- well in '32 or '34, I don't remember.

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah, it was '32.

SMITH: I'll -- I'll get the years messed up.

GEORGE STONEY: OK. Yeah, just say the bonus marchers.

SMITH: The bonus marchers, they went up there to get their World War I bonuses. And they were going there, and I didn't know where they was going, I know there was an awful lot of them on it, so I just got on it, and we ended up in Washington, D.C.

GEORGE STONEY: I'm sorry, could you tell that again and say you got on the train? You said it.

SMITH: I got -- I got on the train.

GEORGE STONEY: I'm sorry, you have to start over again, (inaudible) the train comes along.

(break in video)

SMITH: Well the train came through and it was loaded down with bonus marchers -- marchers, and I got on the train, and I went to Washington, that's where they were going. I didn't know where we were all going, but we all ended up in Washington, so I stayed in Washington, and I got started selling newspapers up there, and I stayed up there about six months, came back home.

GEORGE STONEY: What was it like in uh, Kannapolis during the Depression?

SMITH: Well it was -- Kannapolis was a -- a real good place to bring up children. It was a hard working people, you worked 10 hours a day, and everybody, when they come down, get off of work, and come down through the mill hill, everybody -- if you lived first, they'd stop and talk to you a while, then we'd go on down the street, and they'd talk to somebody else, and everybody had time back in them days just to spend a few minutes with you, and talk with you and everything, and I think it was a wonderful place to live.

GEORGE STONEY: Now you told me a few minutes ago, I want to make sure we get it, that Mr. Cannon, if you had so many people in a household, he'd give you so many days work, or so many others, he didn't have so many, so that it was an indication of what -- how he spread the work around. Could you tell us about that?

SMITH: Well yeah, like in the -- in the Depression, they didn't have too much work in -- too much work in the mill, so what he would do, well --

GEORGE STONEY: I'm sorry, Mr. Cannon. Let's start again. Always mention Mr. Cannon.

SMITH: OK. Mr. Cannon, in -- back in the Depression, would uh, give you a -- if you had three or four children in your family, he'd give you two days of work, and if you just had -- if you didn't have any in the family, he would give you one. So, he would take care of the family, for back in them days, what we did, everybody bought their groceries at what they called a store, grocery store, and -- and he'd come by every day and take your order, the grocery man would, and -- and they'd carry you in the -- when you're in -- in hard times, they'd carry you, if you couldn't pay so much on the bill, they'd let you keep on buying groceries to -- you know, for they knew they was going to get their money.

GEORGE STONEY: Was that a company store?

SMITH: No, it wasn't a company store, it was a private owner stores, but they would come by, I mean, they'd come by, you'd pay them every two weeks, when 00:26:00you got your check, you'd pay -- pay what you could on your grocery bill, then uh, if you couldn't pay, they'd keep letting you have it, for they knew you was going to pay them once that mill started working, they knew they was going to get their money, and they'd just stay with you until you got running full-time.

GEORGE STONEY: What happened if -- if people misbehaved in the village, did they get evicted, or what happened about that?

SMITH: Well back in them days, if uh, if you -- say you got drunk and locked up, well back in them days, if you got drunk and locked up in the mill, I mean in town, and you went to work in the mill, they'd fire you for it. And you didn't have no -- you couldn't work nowhere else, so you had to leave town. And that's the way it -- they'd [want?] it, and then that's -- that's just the way that the rules were back in them days, which were pretty good then.

GEORGE STONEY: How did you feel about it?

SMITH: Well me, it didn't bother me for -- I didn't -- I'd leave town. I'd get out and get on the freight train and go somewhere else. So it didn't bother me.

GEORGE STONEY: At that time, did you think about settling down, and eventually, and getting married in the mill town, and go to work in the factory?

SMITH: No, I tell you, me, the way I was, we used to have a place up there, what we called Mariella Hall. It was owned by the mill, and you could get room, they had one place for single girls, they had one department for married people, and they had one department for single men. Well you could get your room and board there back in them days for $5 a week, that was all you paid for your board and room. And I used to think, back in them days, I said now gee, if I could get me a job in the Army, for -- I still saw them -- when they were in here, them Army boys was in here with the strike, I said, now if I can get a job and retire at 00:28:00$100 a month, and come back to Mariella Hall and live and pay $80 -- I mean $20 a -- a week for room and board, I got $80 a month there to -- and I -- I figured that was pretty good, so I --

GEORGE STONEY: Let's tell that again, because you got a little mixed up with your figures. You had uh, you paid 20 -- you'd have paid $20 a month, rather than $20 a week for your board.

SMITH: Yeah, $20 a month.

GEORGE STONEY: OK, let's start again, OK?

SMITH: The whole thing?

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah.

SMITH: Well, back then, we had a place we called Mariella Hall, the YMCA was all right there, that was the -- the function of the city, everything went on at the YMCA. Well they had a place there that single girls lived in, and they had to be in by 11 o'clock at night, they locked the doors on them, then they had a married people, they could come in any time, then they had single men, and we 00:29:00could come in any time. Well, you paid for -- to live there, for room and board, you paid $5 a week. So, that gave -- I figured then if I could get me a job and retire at $100 a month, and stay at the Mariella Hall and pay $20 a month for room and board, I was -- I was looking pretty good, and I talked to them boys in the Army, and they told me, you know, that it was a pretty good job, and I think they were getting about $21 a month then, and so I figured well, if I stayed in there 20 years, I could get it maybe up to $100 a month. So that was the way I figured it out.

GEORGE STONEY: Well now you went north and you eventually joined a union, I believe you told us. Could you tell us about that?

SMITH: Yeah, well I went -- see I went in the service. I went in the service. I stayed -- I went in, in '35, and I did two hitches in the Army, and I came 00:30:00out of the Army, then I got married in -- in New Hamp-- uh, in Portland, Maine. Well then I started joining unions, and working for the unions, and I -- I worked for unions up there all my life.

GEORGE STONEY: Could you tell that again, and tell us what you did? You just -- you weren't working as a union organizer, were you?

SMITH: No.

GEORGE STONEY: OK. Then, so you say --

SMITH: All right. Now I'm going to start off -- I'm going to tell that --

GEORGE STONEY: OK, just --