Thom Malcom, Ollie Sharpe, R.A. and Ethel Atkin Interviews

 CREW: OK, rolling.

JUDITH HELFAND: OK. Next question, was when you saw -- when you saw these people coming up here, were they walking, were they in cars? Tell me about that?

THOM MALCOLM: When you see these people coming, how did they get there? Did -- were they walking, cars, horseback? How -- how did they get here?

HELFAND: OK. Let me try that one more time. Just say, "Tell me about those people, what did it look like? You were 14 coming up that hill."

MALCOLM: Mr. Sharpe, when you seen all these people, what did it look like? How -- how were they -- how were they coming? Were they walking, riding? What did you think about it?

HELFAND: OK. Ask him about, did you -- "Have you ever heard of the expression, "lint-heads"?

MALCOLM: Have you ever heard the expression, "lint-head"? And how did it make you feel? And what did you think about it when you heard it?

HELFAND: Now say it again, and really mean it. I know you hate that term.

MALCOLM: Yeah, cause you don't hear it no more, so. Mr. Sharpe, have you heard the expression "lint-head"? And if you did, how did it make you feel when you heard the expression "lint-head," and what did you think about people saying that?

HELFAND: Now just ask, "Did you ever hear the expression 'lint-head'?"

MALCOLM: Did you ever hear the expression "lint-head"?

HELFAND: OK, no --

GEORGE STONEY: Just -- "You ever heard the expression, 'lint-head'?"

MALCOLM: Did you ever hear the expression "lint-heads"?

STONEY: Good.

HELFAND: OK, now you responded to him before about lint-heads, and when you heard it, and how that made you feel. Could you do that?

MALCOLM: I don't remember what I said. (laughter)

HELFAND: Well just, I'll ask you now. I mean, what do you -- what comes up for you when you hear the expression "lint-heads"?

MALCOLM: I think that, uh -- people really don't even know what a lint-head is, you know. There's really no such thing as a lint-head. There's textille workers, and most of these people that are calling me lint-heads, I've got more, making more, and have more then they'll ever think about 00:02:00having, you know. But, I still don't like the expression. You know, it's -- you're not a "lint-head." I'm a loom technician; I'm not a "lint-head."

HELFAND: Um when you --

M: Well you know what (overlapping dialogue; inaudible).

CREW: [Churches let down?].

F: Yeah, Judy?

HELFAND: Yeah?

F: Can I say something?

MALCOLM: I can't talk now, can I?

STONEY: No, let's go ahead and finish this.

HELFAND: No we're going to finish, OK, OK, OK. When you were growing up, did you associate with the boss's kids?

MALCOLM: When you were growing up, Mr. Sharpe, did you -- did you play with the boss's kids? Did you go to school with 'em? Did, uh -- did they live next door to you?

HELFAND: OK, all right. Now, in regards to the expression "lint-head," you know, he was walking about happened when -- why people called him "lint-heads." I just want you to ask him why you think that was, OK?

MALCOLM: About the lint-heads?

HELFAND: Yeah. He gave you, he said, you know, this is what happened, "Yeah, people called me lint-heads," and he told you about it. And I want you just ask him, "Well why do you think that was?

MALCOLM: Just say, "Why do you think that was?" or --

HELFAND: Yeah.

MALCOLM: Why do you think that was? I don't really I understand what you want me to ask.

STONEY: That's fine.

HELFAND: Is that fine, George?

STONEY: Yeah.

HELFAND: OK. Now, he -- he basically said -- you know, he told you what the "lint-head" story was all about, and how angry it made him feel. So, now you're asking why was all this class -- problem? Want to ask one more time, now you understand? OK.

MALCOLM: Why do you think that was?

STONEY: Much better.

HELFAND: OK, good. And, OK. And the last one is, what did you think about Roosevelt? OK?

MALCOLM: Mr. Sharpe, what did you think about President Roosevelt?

STONEY: A little more --

HELFAND: OK.

STONEY: -- uh, "What'd you think about President Roosevelt?"

MALCOLM: Mr. Sharpe, what'd you think about President Roosevelt?

HELFAND: OK.

STONEY: Fine

CREW: Bars.

STONEY: Good.

CREW: Tone -- I need everybody to be very, very quiet; very, very still, and don't breathe for about a minute. OK.

[Silence]

STONEY: OK.

SHARPE: It's nice to breathe.

HELFAND: Now, you know not to block us next time, and we won't have that problem.

CREW: I'll try --

CREW: We're rolling.

STONEY: OK, Ms. Sharpe, tell me when you first got to know Roosevelt.

OLLIE SHARPE: It was the year 1945, when I was about 14 years old. He came to our school --

STONEY: Now start again. You're talking about Roosevelt -- not "he," but "Roosevelt," and I want you to be as enthusiastic as you told me before you said --

CREW: You had it.

STONEY: "I knew Roosevelt! Ugh."

F_: He died in '45.

STONEY: Yeah.

SHARPE: He came to our school the year --

STONEY: Not "he," "Roosevelt."

SHARPE: Roose-- President Roosevelt came to our school the year of 1945. It was in the summer, and there was a -- they was riding in, looked like convertibles with running boards, and bodyguards down the cars, and they came over to the school, and we all pitched in, the cotton mill hands and everybody, and we had what you called a "big feast." And he was sitting over there under the tree, and we was just going to play baseball. And we ask him, said, "You want to play baseball?" And he said, "No. But I will throw out the first 00:06:00ball." So we girls played the boys, and we beat 'em.

STONEY: OK, I want you do that again, and instead of saying "he," I want you say "Roosevelt." OK? Each time, OK?

SHARPE: OK. President Roosevelt came to our school the year 1945 in the summer. All of the mill hands, we all got together, and we had a big feast. Everything you could eat was on the tables. He would -- President Roosevelt was sitting under the tree. And we asked him, did he want to play baseball? And he said no. But President Roosevelt, he throwed the first ball out. So the girls played the boys, and we won the game.

STONEY: Did you know he was crippled?

SHARPE: Sure. He walked on two canes. He had polio.

STONEY: Did you see him walking?

SHARPE: Sure.

STONEY: Could you tell about how you felt when you watched him walking, and what kind of a man he was, and what kind of a man he was, and what he looked like -- 00:07:00always say "Roosevelt."

SHARPE: President Roosevelt was the most wonderful president in the world. He was kind of a medium-tall man with gray hair. And he was just a pleasant man -- President Roosevelt was just a pleasant man to be around. He loved children, grown folks and all.

STONEY: How did you happen to know him?

SHARPE: Well, I didn't really know the president until I seen him when he came to our school. And they told me who President Roosevelt was, and I wanted to meet him. So, I got to meet President Roosevelt.

STONEY: And what happened then?

SHARPE: It was a wonderful experience.

STONEY: Great, OK. Now, I'm going to say a word, and I want you to explode. Ready, Dan?

DAN: Yeah.

STONEY: Lint-head.

SHARPE: "Lint-heads"? That's an insult to the textile workers and their 00:08:00families, because it's not right to call honest people that works for a living them names.

STONEY: Why do you think people do it?

SHARPE: I think it's because that they don't realize the textile workers has a hard job, and a lot of them thinks that, you know, they're better than anybody else. But I'll tell you, if that's what we are, a "lint-head," I'm proud to be one of them.

STONEY: Cut. Beautiful.

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CREW: Uh, why don't we do one with it and one without it.

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CREW: This is a desolate background shot in Honea Path, South Carolina. The previous shot was the graveyard in Honea Path, South Carolina.

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(break in audio) CREW: This is another desolate shot in Honea Path, South Carolina.

CREW: (inaudible) right over there.

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CREW: Hope that was long enough, Judy.

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CREW: Give me one second here.

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STONEY: OK, Mr. Atkin, could you tell me about -- just tell me your name, and where you were born, and how you grew up on the farm.

R.A. ATKIN: I was born in 1904, June the 25th, in [Wildhog?] community. It's on the other side of Sandy Spring, next to Portman Dam. Stayed there 15 years, moved to Honea Path, two miles below Honea Path, stayed there a year, and moved to Honea Path up here at this brick house. Stayed there till 23, and I got married, and I've been here on [Mill Hill?] ever since.

STONEY: When did you start working in the mill, and how old were you when you did?

R.A. ATKIN: I went to work in the mill when I was, uh, 22. Got married at 23.

STONEY: And what did you do?

R.A. ATKIN: Worked the spinning room, [dull floor?], fix, supervise --

ETHEL ATKIN: Y'all gonna make a book and sell it?

R.A. ATKIN: -- spinning, spooling, 21 years.

STONEY: Could you say that again, sir?

R.A. ATKIN: I worked in the spinning room. I supervised the spinning and spooling 21 years, and I overhauled the rest of the time till I quit.

STONEY: Do you remember how much you made when you first started working?

R.A. ATKIN: Ten dollars and seventy cents, for 55 hours.

ETHEL ATKIN: Well they ought to give you a bonus for all of this.

R.A. ATKIN: Sit down, (inaudible) they're going to let you talk in a minute.

STONEY: Mrs. -- Mrs. Atkin --

ETHEL ATKIN: I don't talk -- they look at me and get all they want out to me.

STONEY: Mrs. Atkin, can you tell us, uh, how old you are, and when you started working in mill?

R.A. ATKIN: Tell 'em how old you are now.

ETHEL ATKIN: I'm 84 years old.

STONEY: When did you start working in the mills?

ETHEL ATKIN: When I was 14 years old, I worked eight hours a day till I was 16. And my daddy died when I was a year and two months old. I was raised just one parent.

STONEY: OK, could you tell us that again, because we didn't hear it on the microphone tell us, about -- uh, just -- want to adjust --

CREW: (inaudible)

STONEY: OK.

CREW: Yeah, it sounds fine.

STONEY: OK, tell us that again, because we didn't hear it, you -- the microphone. Could you say that again?

ETHEL ATKIN: How old I am now?

STONEY: Yes, that's right.

ETHEL ATKIN: I'm 84 years old, was the second day of September, will be.

R.A. ATKIN: Tell 'em how old you was when you went to work.

ETHEL ATKIN: I was 14 when I went to work, eight hours, till I was 16, and I went to work 10 hours a day.

R.A. ATKIN: Then you got married when you were 16.

STONEY: How much did they pay you?

ETHEL ATKIN: I can't tell you that, but it wasn't nothing much.

R.A. ATKIN: Two dollars a week you said.

ETHEL ATKIN: It wasn't -- it was less than a dollar a day.

STONEY: Was it hard work?

ETHEL ATKIN: It's just regular; just had to keep at it.

STONEY: What did you do?

ETHEL ATKIN: Spin in Chiquola mill.

STONEY: All right, Mr. Atkin, can you remember what happened when Roosevelt got elected, and your hours suddenly got cut?

R.A. ATKIN: When Roosevelt was elected? I remember when he was elected; I don't remember what year. But we were making 11 dollars a week, and was going on 40, as 55 hours, instead you're going on 8 hours a day, 40 hours a week, for 12 dollars a week. And I told a friend of mine all that, says, "Aw, 00:24:00(inaudible) believe that," says that, we're working 55 hours, and ain't getting but, uh, 12 dollars. And now I tell him I was going on 40 hours and pay you 12 dollars a week. (laughter)

STONEY: Did it happen?

R.A. ATKIN: Yeah, that happened, (inaudible) so.

STONEY: How did that make you feel?

R.A. ATKIN: Well, we'd just go to work, there was no time, (inaudible) you'd be ready to go home, just eight hours wasn't nothing then, when you'd been working eleven.

STONEY: Uh, Mrs. Atkin, do you remember when you switched from 12 hours -- 11 hours to eight hours?

ETHEL ATKIN: I don't remember the date of it; I remember working eight hours.

STONEY: How'd it make you feel, that change?

ETHEL ATKIN: Well that's too hard a question. (laughter)

R.A. ATKIN: It made you feel like you hadn't done no work when you worked eight hours, and was working 11.

STONEY: Now, when -- when that happened, did the mills do any of the speeding up, or stretching out?

R.A. ATKIN: Not right then, they didn't, but later on they went to speeding up, and stretching out, all that stuff.

STONEY: Could you tell about that?

R.A. ATKIN: Well see, before they went to stretching out, why, you could run two jobs easy. We got to stretching out and speeding up, couldn't hardly run one, when they got through with it. And it's been that way ever since. I haven't -- when I was supervising, I had 11 sides on (inaudible) job. But now, everybody -- everyone had 49 hours, 49 sides. And they do better on them 00:26:00then they did on 11. And the run -- and the run from, the speed on work with 132, now it's 178, turned (inaudible).

ETHEL ATKIN: If he ain't never worked in the mill, he don't know nothing about all that.

STONEY: But I talked to a lot of people who did work in the mill, and they've been telling me about that. Can you tell us that -- could you tell us now what -- when the union started coming in?

R.A. ATKIN: Thirty -- about '36.

STONEY: Could you say -- know that, the union started coming in before the big strike in '34.

R.A. ATKIN: Yeah.

STONEY: Could you say -- just tell us when -- tell us when the union started coming it.

R.A. ATKIN: They started trying to organize around '33, and then in '34, they struck. They struck two weeks. And non-union, they killed six people over 00:27:00there that morning. And uh, two weeks, they all went back to work. They've been working ever since. There ain't never been no more union (inaudible).

STONEY: Now you are one of the few people still living who saw that happen.

R.A. ATKIN: Yeah.

STONEY: Could you just start right from the beginning and tell us what happened?

R.A. ATKIN: I don't -- I go walking around over there on the yard, before they'd start shooting. And they was inside the mill, and they started shooting on the outside. And, uh, I walked right there on the sidewalk, it was all over with. About, didn't last about two minutes. And they done killed five, and another one died in the hospital.

STONEY: Now, you knew a lot of those people.

R.A. ATKIN: Yeah, I worked with 'em.

STONEY: Could you tell us about them?

R.A. ATKIN: Well, we was working all together in the spinning room, when they said they're going to shut down, and unweight all the rollers, and everybody unweighed the rollers and everything, and they went home, and the next day, they come back over there. That's when all that killing took place. It's done before you could -- less than two minutes, it's all over with.

STONEY: Now you saw some of that happen. Could you describe it?

R.A. ATKIN: Dr. Donald come down there, and went around with him to [mount?] some dead. There was two laying over there on the yard, and one out down on the sidewalk, and one down into the mill, in a fellow's yard, and one right below that, and on the sidewalk. And one or two shot in the leg, and in the arm.

STONEY: Now, who was inside the mill at the time shooting?

R.A. ATKIN: The non-union people. They said them, that they didn't belong to the union. A lot of them on the outside didn't belong to the union. They were just over there. They told 'em, says, more people over there, that don't belong to the union, they was union, we'll start the mill back up. And then they started shooting, and that's what happened.

STONEY: Where did the guns --