Homer Logsdon and Foots Weaver Interviews

 M1: [What's?] your question?

M2: Finished? We got speed.

JUDITH HELFAND: OK. We were talking about, um, the -- the threat at the time -- the climate was so difficult -- about keeping -- about having a job. And that the threat of, uh -- do you want to stop?

(break in video)

GEORGE STONEY: All over the South at that time, people were terribly worried about losing their jobs, particularly in textiles, so they didn't want to do anything that would rile up the boss. Could you talk about that? And then including my question in your answer?

HOMER LOGSDON: Well, you know what, back in those days, when we got a job, we appreciated it, and we done our work, because the boss would tell you what your job was, and he didn't bother you, as long as you done your job. And I know 00:01:00we had what we called chain [boys?] that built patterned chains (laughs) I know they'd sit there and built patterned chains, you could see 'em nodding and going to sleep. But, uh, we were lucky, the [Fillem?] boys, the --the other guys that done all the work. That's back when we were kids. Uh, we done our job because if we didn't do it, there would be a dozen people outside the gate waiting for the boss to come out and hire 'em. And if you didn't do your job, if you laid out, if you wasn't on your job -- if you were supposed to be there at 10 o'clock, you'd better be there at 10 o'clock, because your boss would look to see if everybody was on their job, and then he was through for the night, because he knew his help would do their job, and he didn't have any worries. But, if one laid out, if he didn't, uh, let the boss know what 00:02:00was happening, or if he had goofed up on his job, he was gone. But we didn't have any problem with that, because, uh, we all wanted a job, and knew what our jobs was, and we done it. As I said, the boss, after he checked us in to see if everybody was there, he didn't have any more worries, because everybody done their job.

GEORGE STONEY: Now, I understand that there was a lot of, uh, hiring of kinfolk, the section hand would hire people who were in his family, and all of that.

LOGSDON: Well, uh, we had a -- a foreman in the spinning room. He was from up in Sevier County, I guess. And (laughs) he'd hire anybody that comes from Sevier County. He'd put 'em in -- of course they were in the spinning room. And, if they looked back -- if you looked back at the history, you'd find 00:03:00more of his kin people in the spinning room. Now, in the weave room, uh, our bosses most of the time from New England states, and they didn't have people here. But, we had, uh, our boss we were on the first shift, uh, his brother was a boss weaver on the third shift. But they came from the New England states, so they did -- it just wasn't -- now, there was a lot of families that worked because, uh, daddy bring his son in, or daddy bring his wife in, and they all worked -- they -- lot of 'em was farmers. They'd come work eight hours, and then go back and work on the farm eight hours, and -- and -- of course they had an advantage of us over city folk because they raised everything they need, 00:04:00about. But, uh, I think that's one thing that made it more like a family of -- of people working. Now, I'm speaking of the weave shop especially the third shift, the one I worked on, because we all -- we were all buddies.

GEORGE STONEY: Did you have a baseball team there?

LOGSDON: Yes, later years we had a baseball team, had a good one. And officials took a great interest in it, because our head designer, I know Mr. -- his name's Mr. [Deaver?] I believe he's gone now. But, uh, I know he used to be a big supporter of our ball club -- baseball. Of course they called it sandlot baseball, but as entertainment we had a big time, we would do much of the -- especially the other people would go out to -- to the baseball games on the 00:05:00weekends -- on Saturdays.

GEORGE STONEY: Now, did you -- did they give you picnics and barbecues, and all that kind of thing?

LOGSDON: Nope.

GEORGE STONEY: OK.

HELFAND: Um, you know, could you talk a little bit about all those folks, along with yourself, who couldn't get a job? I don't know if it would be helpful to look at that list, but someone like Fred Turner, he traveled around, and traveled around and wound up at Cramerton. And then you met them up later when you went to Cramerton.

LOGSDON: When, we -- we spread out.

HELFAND: Could you say when -- when the strike was over, we didn't have a job, maybe...

GEORGE STONEY: We spread out.

LOGSDON: When -- when the job -- when the strike was over, uh, we thought it was over, there was several fellas, uh, I don't know if they went back to apply for their job, but anyhow, they knew they were out of a job. And I knew I was out of the job. But, I didn't know the company had run me off, but they just 00:06:00said somebody else had my job. So, I figured somebody had took my job. But, some of them went to Michigan, and some of them went to California, and they just spread out everyplace.

GEORGE STONEY: Great, that's -- that's just what we needed.

HELFAND: Now, what about Fred Turner and the Turner boys?

LOGSDON: Well, some of the boys that I grew up with, uh, three of 'em -- three of the -- three brothers that we grew up together -- there was a block between our houses as we grew up. But, uh, their daddy was a railroad man. And, of course they were put on the list, too. But, I don't know if they knew it, or (inaudible) I didn't know it. But, they knew they were out of a job. So, 00:07:00they, uh, said more of our fellas -- several of them went to North Carolina, and went to work. And in later years, oh, in about '40, I guess, around '40, I decided that I would move, because I was always afraid that if I quit my job I couldn't find another job. But this was later years, and you could find a job about every place. So, I went to North Carolina, where these brothers were, and one of them asked me, said, "Are you visiting, or are you looking for a job?" And I said, "Well, I thought I'd see if I could find a job." So, he took me down to the -- the boss, secondhand, and he said, "Are you from Cherokee Mills?" And I said "Yeah" and he said, "Do you run Compton & Knowles Looms?" and I said, "Yeah." He said, "I'll hire anybody that 00:08:00comes from Cherokee Mills." So, that's the reason -- there's several of the fellas that, when they left Cherokee, they write their friends a letter -- they didn't call them back then because it's too expensive -- they'd write 'em, and they'd end up over there. And there were several -- I don't know how many, went back to Cramerton, NC and went to work. And I worked there for maybe a couple years, 'til I went in the service.

GEORGE STONEY: Good. Excellent.

HELFAND: Thank you. You know, 'cause we spoke to, um...

(break in video)

LOGSDON: Uh, say, I don't like to call people's names because, you know, I think most of 'em are gone, because they were older, and as I say they -- I don't know -- these three brothers I've been talking about. They'd never been out of Knoxville, I don't think. I don't think they had never been out 00:09:00of Knoxville. But, anyhow, somebody had told 'em. So, they went to North Carolina. But, these older guys had went first, and, uh, they originated from North Carolina to start with, and they knew because they were like me, they'd never been out to -- the territory, we put it -- out of Tennessee. And that was their -- I'd say that was -- one of them, the younger one, he didn't go into textile mill. But one -- two of them went in, one of 'em was a loom fixer, the other was a weaver. Two of 'em died over there.

HELFAND: I mean, you had this whole community of people that were working together, you were in a union for a while, and it broke up. What happened?

LOGSDON: Well, what -- we all -- I think we all had ambition. I know I did, because I wanted to -- as I said, I've never been satisfied with what I had, I always wanted more. I think that's why we separate, to get out of the textile mills. Now, some stayed in the textile mills and retired in the textile mill, and I've talked to my wife several times. We just did the other day -- maybe when she came back from over at Charlotte -- that if I had stayed at the textile mills, I might still be living in that little village. I look at that. But I -- as I say, I never was satisfied, I wanted something a little better. And, I feel like I -- in later years, I have a good life, and, uh, we have what we 00:11:00want, we're not rich, but we have want we want. And, uh -- and I think several of 'em is in the same shape.

GEORGE STONEY: Now, what did you go into when you got out of textiles that enabled you to live like that.

LOGSDON: I've been in several businesses, uh, because I'm -- I'm a trader, and I'm a jockeyer, or whatever you want to call it. If I see where I can make a dollar, I'll do it. But, when I first left Oak Ridge -- after -- when I come out of the service, I went to Oak Ridge, and I worked there until they said -- we bought a swing (inaudible). And I said, "No, I quit." So, I did, I quit -- I went -- we both worked at -- at there. And, I went to service station, then I bought another service station, then I bought another one, and then I got into the school bus business, and I leased busses to Knox County for 00:12:00about 20 -- 22 years. And I bought a boat dock -- they call 'em marinas now -- but back then we called 'em boat docks, and in my later years, I began to check up, and I told my wife, I said, "It looks like I'm working for somebody else. I'm gonna quit." And she said, "You won't quit." I said, "Watch me." And I began to sell the service stations and the -- and the boat dock, and my school buses, and -- and I just do what I want to do now.

GEORGE STONEY: Good. OK.

HELFAND: What do you think about that?

LOGSDON: Uh, you know we fussed about that years and years ago, because that was what was wrong with the textile industries back in our days. They could get it 00:13:00from Japan or someplace much cheaper than we could make it, because we had like, our shirt company (inaudible) and we had the customers Cherokee Mill had were good customers, I call it. And, uh, now, the textile industry, they're all losing their shirt because China, Taiwan, Mexico, you just name it, and that boy and run those looms for -- looms like we run now, back in the '30s. I seen it on television, I seen those old Draper looms just goin' up a storm, you know. And, uh, they can make the cloth so much cheaper than American people will work for. And they just -- and the textile mills are going down the drain. You can get a shirt now and have uh =- I won't say our shirt, but I've got a 00:14:00Vanderbilt shirt, and you know, that's supposed to be an American made, but come out and find out it was made in Taiwan.

HELFAND: You know, right now in Kannapolis, North Carolina, there are 7,000 textile workers who are trying to organize a union in the Fieldcrest Cannon Mills.

LOGSDON: Well, they -- they -- they'll go -- they'll put 'em out of business, because I'd say, just like the old man over at Kannapolis the other day that lost all of his money, that he's paying his employees -- their pension out of his own pocket, because he invested in their pension fund and this, uh, junk bonds. And of course, he feels for his employees, you know, that 00:15:00it was his fault and he's trying to make -- they said he'd give 'em $1 million his own money. But, uh, if they -- 'course I don't -- as I say, I don't know nothing 'bout the union, but if they've got a job, and they're satisfied with it, 'course it's everybody to their own. I'm not saying anything 'bout the union, but textile mills -- the foreign countries are smothering 'em. And what they gonna do is, as I said, it's everybody's own, but it looks bad, because the mill over at Cramerton -- it looks awful over there -- to where the factories were. The little Cramerton town was still there, but the old man that owned it, you know, over at Cramer, when he died, his sons -- just like most peo -- old fella's sons, they get rid of all this stuff, they'd rather have the money than to have the business. 00:16:00And they sold out to Burlington, and Burlington closed it. They couldn't make it. So, I don't know what's going to happen to the textile mill.

GEORGE STONEY: Judy, I think --

HELFAND: OK.

GEORGE STONEY: --you've gotta call it.

HELFAND: Yep.

LOGSDON: They don't have any i--

(break in video)

LOGSDON: -- dollars a day. (Inaudible, multiple conversations).

JAMIE STONEY: We just had to have that cutaway because I missed another question.

GEORGE STONEY: Let me show you something here, Jamie.

JAMIE STONEY: Let me just power down for a moment.

(break in video)

GEORGE STONEY: OK, Jamie?

JAMIE STONEY: Yeah, you -- you want this shot?

GEORGE STONEY: No, no, I want, uh, (inaudible).

M1: We're in Knoxville, Tennessee, don't you know that Elvis Presley walked through this yard one time. Thank you.

(pause)

JAMIE STONEY: Roll it.

GEORGE STONEY: My first question is -- remember you want to put my question in your answer -- why do they call you Foots?

FOOTS WEAVER: Well, when God was giving out feet, I was right at the head of the line. And I said, "Here I am, God" and that was it.

GEORGE STONEY: OK, now you didn't do that right. You said, "They call me Foots, becau--"

(break in audio)

WEAVER: -- was collecting feets. So, like in the yard --

GEORGE STONEY: OK, sorry, sorry.

WEAVER: -- instead of feets.

GEORGE STONEY: One more time, it wasn't right.

WEAVER: You didn't follow it up that well.

GEORGE STONEY: OK, now try it again. All right?

WEAVER: OK. Now, the reason they call me Foots, I think, God was giving 'em out there, and I was right at the head of the line.

GEORGE STONEY: Now, could you tell us about your first experience in the cotton mill -- how old you were, and what it was like, and what you did?

WEAVER: Well, my first experience in the cotton mill was Brookside cotton mill, 1921. It was on a Monday morning after the fifth day of the month, on February the fifth. I was 14 years old. My experience was to work a half a day and go to school a half a day. So, we learned to work and got an education at the same time. When I went into the school it was -- schoolteacher had everything from the first to the high school. There was about 35 children there. It was hard on her, but she knew how to handle the job -- she was trained to handle the job 00:19:00back then, and she done a good job. She had first grade -- she had some of them in there that were 14 years old, was in the first grade. Never had went to school before. Well, I happened to be one of the lucky ones, I got up there to the fifth grade before I was 14.

GEORGE STONEY: What did...

WEAVER: It was cotton mill -- cotton mill down there at Brookside was an old spinning room. Number three spinning room, by the name of [Chad Riggs?] was a secondhand fixer on it. We had four sides to doff, there was two doffers on four spinning frames, had eight sides and it was 116 spindles to each side. We had about 45 minutes there to take them off and put 'em back, but on empty bobbins. And I worked there for $3.97 a week, till I learnt, and then I went to $6.18 a week. And then from there on, when I got to working 55 hours a week, I 00:20:00made $10.44 a week then, for 55 hours. That was a lot of money, wasn't it? Nineteen cents an hour, I figured. It wasn't too hard to figure out, there. And I went to work down at Cherokee cotton mill, and then while I was working down there I got married in 1928. I thought I wanted a family. Well, I got a family. I had two boys. That's pretty good to start off there with. So, the oldest one was a little less than four years old, and the other one was a baby -- his name was Kyle, we named him after the doctor, because the doctor had delivered another boy, there. The doctor done a good job there of giving me 00:21:00another son. Well, 1933 -- went to work down there one morning at Cherokee. About two months or three months before that they give us a nice little cut down of 40%. They're gonna have to cut 40% here to keep this thing open, to give you a job. I figured there's a little money (inaudible) there on that job, too, but I just wondering. You know, he was selling cloth there to [Hewitt] Peabody. Man hats and shirts made from mighty fine clothes, there, shirts out of it, and other goods. And our shirt company. Now, that was first class work down there, first class -- I mean material. It was high standard material, fine comb material. And I went in that morning, on Monday morning, and it was awful hot. And they call 'em sweatshops back then, I don't know why they call 'em sweatshops. Some days it'd rain off my head, I'd take a big bunch of salt and wipe the sweat down there. But they call 'em sweatshops anyway, I 00:22:00didn't like it. So, I told Bob Williams, a friend of mine, I said, "Did you hear anything about 'em pulling a strike here up at 20% at 10 o'clock this mornin' we're gonna close it down and walk outta here." Said, "I hadn't heard anything about it." I said, "Well," I said to pass it on. And he passed it on, and I went the other way passin' on. And you know, I run across Mr. James, a big, tall, guy there -- Sam James. I'll never forget Sam. Sam says, "I'm not ready, Foots --" he said, "I'm right with you." He says, "whole soul and body."

GEORGE STONEY: (laughs)

WEAVER: And I'll never forget Sam James. Sam's gone, gone to the happy hunting ground. And then Bob comes back and he says, "You know, people's agreeing with us," I says, "They are?" I said, "Well, they'll realize it's a fact, we need a little bit of money to go over this here cotton they're bringing in here." And we finally settled with 'em at 10% there. 00:23:00And I talked them into that 10%. I talked 'em into that 10% because we gotta pay more -- we got 21% there waiting two weeks for the other dime. Well, they give us 21% there, 20 and a half percent, to make it specific, and a nationwide strike was the next strike we was on there. And they locked us out down there -- I guess I got a little rough in that -- I don't know -- I got mad about something, I don't know what I was mad about, but I got mad about something over there. And they said I was a radical. Well, I got straight in there, and I had something to be radical about. I'd been doin' all this stuff, and somebody chose $200,000 over the company down there. And he said, "I'll give it all back to you," he says, "When we get 'em." And he didn't set no specified time. You know, I could have been dead before I ever got that 00:24:00by the state down there? But I couldn't stay there, I had to get out and make a living somewhere. And I headed to North Carolina.

GEORGE STONEY: Well, now just a moment. Let's go back. When you were organizing, tell us about how you organized? How you went to people's --

WEAVER: Well, I --

GEORGE STONEY: --houses?

WEAVER: --had to go to the houses after night.

GEORGE STONEY: Just say, "When we started organizing."

WEAVER: Yeah. We...

GEORGE STONEY: Just a moment. Say, "When we started organizing."

WEAVER: We went out after night. We had to go after night to get the -- the people at home and talk to 'em, where we could talk to 'em in private. And we -- we'd get in the house there, and when we got in the house there, sometimes we'd stay a little late, but we had a reason why we were stayin' a little late, because we liked the people we was talking to. And we liked for 'em to agree with us, and they agreed with us -- part of 'em did. We had 75 or 80% there on that nationwide strike. Well, I thought that was pretty doggone 00:25:00good. But, I guess they -- they -- a little something there to happen. Money problems. And...

GEORGE STONEY: Let's -- let's go back to that organizing, though. I want you to start again on that, and say, "When we went out to the houses to -- to organize." Tell why you had to go to the houses, 'cause you couldn't work in the -- couldn't speak around the plants.

WEAVER: Well, we didn't go -- we didn't flip 'em around, we couldn't -- there wasn't no way in the world we could hold our jobs back then. They could fire you back then for nothing at all. And you just had to like it. And the more work they've done, the more they expected out of you. So, I always thought a union was a darn good thing, and they do a little bit more work, and a little bit better work in a union. And you get a label on -- on your stuff. I like -- like that union label. I don't know why I liked it, but I liked it. I liked the feel of that union label. You know, I liked -- when I'd buy 00:26:00clothes -- back when I was able to buy clothes, I'd look for union labels every time.

GEORGE STONEY: Now, we have pictures of you and, uh, Lucille Thornburgh on the front page of the papers. Could you talk about that, and talk about how the strike went?

WEAVER: Well, down there that day, the new Sentinel would come -- come out there, and was takin' pictures. And I guess that, the boy -- that the boy -- he's gone now -- and I guess they got a picture of that boy that -- I -- told a cop, I said, "He come out [calmly?]" I said, "He fell out on me," I said, "I just opened the door, I didn't know he was that close against the door." But, the boy -- the boy is gone now. And -- and I thought a lot of his daddy and his brothers, and I put in a couple of bathrooms for him after that, since I've been up here. I put in a couple bathrooms for him, and two (inaudible).

GEORGE STONEY: Well, now let's go back to the -- when you were having the strike -- tell us about what it was like on the picket line, and mention the people who were there.

WEAVER: Well, the people was there. I had three brothers there, and it was...

GEORGE STONEY: Just say, "On the picket line."

WEAVER: Yeah. There was three brothers there...

GEORGE STONEY: No, sorry. Start off by saying --

WEAVER: On the picket line.

GEORGE STONEY: "On the picket line."

WEAVER: Where we was at down there, we'd get out there and walk around that mill down there, and the girls they got to signing down there, and you couldn't keep 'em quiet. They'd seem happy about something, I don't know what it was. But anyway, they'd -- they'd sing, "Shall Not Be Moved," -- "I Shall Not Be Moved." Wasn't there nobody trying to move them, I didn't think, but anyway, that was a song -- that was their march over there, they would not be -- they was just like a tree over there. And I didn't see a darn one looked like a tree, to tell you the truth about it. But they still argued down there, just like a tree that's planted by the waters. 00:28:00Well, didn't nobody plant 'em by the waters, because they were walking around by that (inaudible) mill and when -- when --when, uh, you got to -- you see what I mean, you get that music goin' there, and you can't hardly get it stopped. Some of 'em was -- some of 'em was dancing around down there, and the other one was looking around, they say, "What are you so happy about? You ain't got nothing that's -- you ain't got no job." Well, she doesn't care anything about a job as long as you're happy on the outside, there. But, when you get back home it's a different tune. You get to studying about back on that picket line. I'm going back down on that picket line and work again. I'm going try and get that other dime again.

GEORGE STONEY: Now, on that picket line, there was somebody with a flag. Tell us about that guy, who came and walked down there with a flag.

WEAVER: Oh, that's -- that's walked down there. I didn't get to see all of that, but he comes down there with a -- a flag, and he -- he...

GEORGE STONEY: Now, start off and tell us who it was.

WEAVER: Yeah. Well, uh, I can't recall his name right now. But, anyway, he come in over that flag that morning and, uh, he was gonna walk around too, with that flag. And, I don't know what -- what -- what happened there, to tell you the truth about it. I just figured he's movin' the United States in there ahead of me, and when I should have been (inaudible), but I didn't -- I didn't bother him. I know better. But what he was tryin' to do was prove something that wasn't on the books, was not on the books.

GEORGE STONEY: Now, did you -- did you...