Clyde Ware Interview 2

 GEORGE STONEY: -- down in the woods before.

CREW: Yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: And now they had the courage to come out in Town Hall, in places like the -- uh --

CREW: Rolling.

GEORGE STONEY: OK. Tell us about what happened in terms of unions when the NRA came in?

CLYDE WARE: Well, uh, Dwight was already pretty well organized. And, uh, in the meantime, after NRA, uh, Dwight got somebody to start a popsicle union. And I think it was Mr. Watson, it was head of that. And, uh, I can't think of what they called that, but it was popsicle union. That's what they -- everybody else called a popsicle union. And, uh, but, uh, it never did get off the ground. But, uh, there -- Dwight threatened everybody that had a union card. 00:01:00And I know because, uh, who all had one, because i-- deducted their dues out of the payroll. And, uh --

CREW: Just wait a sec.

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GEORGE STONEY: We've understood in many other places that the, uh, manufacturers, the employers had a lot of spies around. Could you talk about that?

WARE: Uh, I've been told that.

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah.

WARE: I've been told that. Uh, I -- I wouldn't say for sure, and I wouldn't say that they didn't. But I -- eh, where there's a little bit of smoke, there's a little bit of fire. And I -- I presume they did it. And, uh, but anyhow, uh, when we first started to organize, we would have a little 00:02:00meeting, say, down at Jim Holland's house, or (inaudible)house. And next week, the company knew about it, knew who all was there. So there's a rat there somewhere. (laughter) And, uh, but, uh --

CREW: Just wait, we need to --

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GEORGE STONEY: All right and say "We would have a meeting," and then what happened?

WARE: Uh, the union, when it was first starting to try and organize black, the organizers that, uh, pick out somebody's home, and had it, and by the next Monday night, the company know who all was there, and who spoke. And that -- and that immediately starts making arrangements to replace them. And that's how come 90 blackball.

GEORGE STONEY: Now, we know that early on, two different presidents of the union got fired.

WARE: Yeah. [Andy Sewell?] and [JP Hart?].

GEORGE STONEY: Why did they keep -- keep going if they know they going to get fired?

WARE: Just in hopes, just living on hopes, I guess. Uh, you -- you've lived on hopes, I know. And things get better. Can't get no worse, uh, got to get better. And, uh, I just presume -- back then, textile workers had been done through a lot, and all over the United States, and including garment workers in New Jersey, New York, and, uh, maybe there wouldn't be -- but they'd [attend them?], but they was treated awful. And, uh, but if you belonged to the union back then, you was mud. Just -- just -- just r-- rather the bunch. But, uh, the company knows who all was there [to them?] union meetings. And if you was 00:04:00there, and you happened to have a job, you wouldn't have it long. They'd put you on the road.

GEORGE STONEY: Now, uh, some people have told us that textile workers, most textile workers, really weren't interested in the union, but they got into it by some Yankees.

WARE: (laughter) Well, uh -- uh, (laughter) uh, Molly Dowd, she was from Atlanta, Georgia. John Dean's from Atlanta, Georgia. Uh, Cox was from Columbus, Georgia. Uh, McGill, she was from Birmingham. And, uh, uh, Fred [Adcock?], he was from -- there's two Adcocks. They was from Huntsville. And, uh, let's see. There's some other organizers here one time. And I can't think of his name. But, uh, he done most his organizing over in 00:05:00Georgia. There's a young feller and a big, tall feller. And a real good talker. Uh, about 6'1" or 2", real nice dressed all the time, well spoken. And I might know his name if I heard it talked. He was from around Rockmart, Georgia.

JUDTIH HELFAND: Homer Welch?

WARE: Who?

HELFAND: Homer Welch?

WARE: No. Homer Welch was from Hogansville when -- you didn't know I'd remember that, did you? Uh, Rockmart and Hogansville a long ways apart. (laughter)

GEORGE STONEY: Tell us about, uh, Homer Welch.

WARE: Homer Welch, uh, he was from Hogansville, Georgia. He had a big truck, [a 00:06:00ton and a half?] truck. And he, uh, went around, all over North Georgia and Central Georgia. He'd have a truckload of people, and they'd go into a place, and they'd make them strike. They didn't ask them to strike, they just made them strike. And, uh, uh, absent [a law order?] to go back to work, I don't know what become of Homer Welsh. But he was from LaGrange, Georgia, and he did have a ton and a half truck, with a big old [stake buy on it?], and he'd haul anywhere from about to 25 to 50 people around [these?] cotton mills, and --

CREW: Just a sec. OK.

HELFAND: Now, when you went to Ho-- when you were on your organizing trip, you went to Hogansville, is that right?

WARE: Uh, one time.

HELFAND: One time.

WARE: Yeah.

HELFAND: Did you talk in Hogansville?

WARE: No.

HELFAND: Did you -- you didn't talk.

WARE: No.

HELFAND: Could you tell us?

WARE: Uh, I forget where Albert had -- had to go down there. Albert had to go down there for some reason. Uh, uh, we was in Columbus at his house, and he had to go to Hogansville to see somebody. And I forget who it was, but it wasn't real important. But, uh, some business Albert Cox had to take care of.

GEORGE STONEY: Did you remember wha--

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WARE: Uh, well, now, I wasn't in that bunch. Uh, at that time, I was in, uh, um, Aragon, Georgia. But, uh, they -- uh, they got a bunch of sheriff's department, city, got a bunch, uh, non-union people. Armed them, and arrested all them people. See, in Newnan, they didn't have enough police force or 00:08:00sheriff's department to arrest all them people. And, uh, see, there was usually around 40, 50 people went with, uh, that truck. But, uh, I'd take them over to Fort McPherson there in Columbus. And, uh, I can't think how long you kept them over there. Uh, and what the results was. They had to let them out, though. They -- they had to let them out. And, uh, uh, and joining --

GEORGE STONEY: OK. Now, we won't start that again, and then say that you had a right to join any organization, but they discouraged it.

WARE: Yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: So let's start again.

HELFAND: And could you mention those organizations?

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah, yeah. OK. OK, Jamie.

WARE: Uh, the textiles industry, uh, tried to discourage all employees from 00:09:00joining any union, regardless of what kind of union it was.

CREW: (inaudible)

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WARE: See, it's always been a free -- free world. You -- you have been -- you have been free to join any organization you wanted to. Always has been that way. And it always will be that way. But, uh, companies didn't see it that way. And if you even thought union, and you was an employee, I guarantee you, the next week, you'd be fired. You wouldn't be there next week, because the -- or two dozen of you met, somebody told who all was there. That next week, you got s-- might take two or three weeks to get some of them, but they'd finally get all of them. But, uh, it's always been that you're allowed to join a union, if you wanted to. But they've always been discriminated against 00:10:00until Roosevelt got elected. And, uh, and he let textile workers down. But, uh, it so happened that employees Dwight Manufacturing Company, in Gadsden was the only one that was left holding the bag. The rest of them went -- they was on strike, went back to work, like to come out. Yeah, all of them did, except the employees of Dwight Manufacturing Company, which is located in Gadsden. And, uh, there's about 90 left out, somewhere in that neighborhood. Out of them, all of them was blackballed, and some never did go back and ask for a job. Some did, and some got reemployed, but immediately got fired in the next few weeks. Mr. Addison was one of them. And, uh, former [nascan?] said, "You 00:11:00belong to that damn union?" I told him, yep. "Then, well, you done." I think that was FM Addison, or one of the Addison.

GEORGE STONEY: What about you?

WARE: Me? I -- I didn't go ask for a job. And, uh, my wife didn't either. I had one, until they called them out on strike. It wasn't my place to go back up there and ask for a job. It was John Dean's and Albert Cox's and Molly Dowd's, and Gorman's job to see that they hire them people back. It was their duty to see that, but they didn't do it. Theref-- uh, th-- therefore, uh, the employees were stus-- refused employment back at Dwight, and blackballed -- uh, was di-- discriminated against. And I went before the NRLB 00:12:00about it. Well, that, uh, list, and, uh, never did hear from it.

GEORGE STONEY: OK. OK. (overlapping dialogue; inaudible)

HELFAND: Can I -- can I continue?

GEORGE STONEY: Sure.

HELFAND: Um, well, a question that I had –

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GEORGE STONEY: They stayed out for 13 weeks.

WARE: Thirteen weeks.

HELFAND: I w-- are you proud of them for doing that?

WARE: Well, I'm not proud of the way they was told to come out. First place i--

GEORGE STONEY: Oh.

CREW: (inaudible)

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CREW: OK. We're rolling.

WARE: Uh, you -- you take, uh -- let's see, what it's talking about. Uh --

HELFAND: And what I asked you was what gave all those people all that gumption?

WARE: Just living in hopes that Roosevelt would do something about it. See, he had done issued the ultimatum, and they figured that Roosevelt would get an injunction against the companies, which it didn't ever do. Roosevelt sold out 00:13:00textile workers in Gadsden. So did the NRLB sell the workers out, because I went personally before the NRLB, in regards to them people blackballed. Never did hear one thing from them. Uh, the union didn't either.

GEORGE STONEY: OK.

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WARE: Well, uh, all the -- all the locals here -- steel plant, Goodyear, Sequoia, uh, Coosa-Thatcher, Dwight, uh, uh, bakery employees.

CREW: Let's wait a minute.

GEORGE STONEY: Oh, dear.

JAMIE STONEY: Everybody's going [after lunch?].

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah.

WARE: Well, uh, e-- every local union in Gadsden, had a float in it. And if it didn't have a float in it, they had a bunch of [markers in it?]. And i-- it was a real success. And, uh, but, uh, seemed to me like a lot of people lost 00:14:00their job on account of that parade. But, uh, I -- I forget just where [the little?] was working at. I think something was out of my foundry, some foundry here.

GEORGE STONEY: OK.

WARE: There's a lot -- and back at that time, several families, uh, in operation in Etowah County.

GEORGE STONEY: Now, let's go -- do that again, and just say -- mention it's a labor day parade, and what it was like, and then that some of the people lost their jobs because of it, because we got evidence of that.

WARE: Yeah.

HELFAND: And you -- you -- before you –

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WARE: The Etowah Labor Council is one that, uh, organized this, uh, parade, that come -- uh --

GEORGE STONEY: Start again, and mention Labor Day parade.

WARE: Uh, uh, central labor union was -- consisted of all labor unions in Etowah County. Uh, the -- they wanted to have a Labor Day parade, so they contacted 00:15:00all the locals, and all the locals agreed to, uh, go into Labor Day Parade. And, uh, it was a success, but there's some -- several people lost their jobs on account of it, because, uh, some of the companies didn't like for the word "union" to be mentioned in there, and, uh, present. And, uh, but some of them lost their jobs on account of the companies really didn't have many employees. And what they did, they had a real [minority?] of them that belonged to the union. But, uh, if you belong to a union --

HELFAND: (whispers) What is that?

WARE: -- company's supposed to recognize you, whether it's 100 or 10. If you belong to the minority, they're supposed to recognize you, just as much as they're supposed to recognize that majority. But, uh, textile never got to that, and if there was still around, they wouldn't never get to it. Well, it's working now, they just got a car. They d-- not getting any benefits. Show me a textile union that's helped the employee get any better working condition. All it kept them from doing is losing their job. They haven't got them any more money. Have they? Have they got them any more money?

HELFAND: I think in some cases, they might have.

WARE: Yeah, might have gotten a nickel or something like that. But you'd have got that anyway. You'd have got that anyway.

GEORGE STONEY: OK. (inaudible)

WARE: All right.

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GEORGE STONEY: All right. We're going to ask you about –

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HELFAND: (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) one of the people that have been real active on that picket line.

WARE: She was a lady, worked in the spinning room.

GEORGE STONEY: Uh, mention Laura Hull.

WARE: Laura Hull was -- worked in the spinning room, and she was ver-- very active in the union. And she was outspoken, but she [run her job?]. But she got on the blackball list, because she was outspoken. Everybody talked, uh, in favor of the union. If the company got a hold of you, they'd tell you goodbye.

GEORGE STONEY: OK.

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CREW: Rolling.

HELFAND: Laura Hull. Laura Hull Beard.

GEORGE STONEY: OK.

WARE: Uh, she was --

GEORGE STONEY: Uh, see who -- say Laura.

WARE: Laura Hull was a real good union member. She was real outspoken, she run her jaw. But when she was asked to go back through the employment office, and if she was on that blackball list, you had to sign agreement she would never cause the company no trouble or join no union or join nothing. And, uh, she refused to join that, so that's the reason she's on the blackball then.

GEORGE STONEY: Tell us more about her. Do you remember what she looked like, how she -- what she said?

WARE: I can't remember. But I do know she wasn't a real tall woman. She was kindly on the stocky side. Not too stocky, but she was a little on the stocky side. I guess, uh, she was, uh, somewhere in the neighborhood of, uh, 00:19:005'6", and maybe weigh 140, 45 pounds. She was a little on the stocky side. But, uh, she did run her job. She worked in the spinning room. She was real outspoken, and, uh, she's -- said what she believed in. She didn't pull no bones, didn't care who she talked to. She believed in something, she believed [entirely?].

GEORGE STONEY: Do you remember being on the picket line?

WARE: Uh, me? Uh, several times.

GEORGE STONEY: Tell us about it.

WARE: Well, uh --

GEORGE STONEY: What --

WARE: -- I never was there too much on the picket line, but, uh, I never did see anybody threaten anybody, or going in or out. The union employees had guns sitting up against the car. They had clubs sitting up against the car. But [they'd be?] sitting around in chairs, that are on the [bench something?]. 00:20:00But I've never seen a union employee threaten anybody.

GEORGE STONEY: OK, that's very good.

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WARE: -- wasn't no agitator. She was real outspoken, I'll say that.

GEORGE STONEY: But you know [she's still there?].

WARE: I don't know where she is.

GEORGE STONEY: Oh, yes. We've got -- we've d-- we've done the same thing with her.

WARE: Yeah. Well, uh, she was real outspoken, I'll tell you that. But she wasn't no agitator. But, uh, she didn't try to talk things up. Uh, but she'll tell you what she thought. If she thought something, she -- she'd tell it, just like she thought it was. I don't know whether she was still living or not. I don't even know where she lives now, if she's still living. She used to live in town down here on the corner of Christopher and 10th Street.

GEORGE STONEY: Now, did you ever live in a mill village?

WARE: Yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: Tell us about it.

WARE: I was living there when they struck.

GEORGE STONEY: Tell us about living in the mill village.

WARE: Uh, the mill -- I forget -- [Cone mill?] at that time was called Dwight Manufacturing Company. They own a bunch of houses, rental houses. They got a dollar a month per room. If you had a three-room house, it was $3 a month. Five-room house, it was $5. And, uh, the only water you had then was between two houses, one -- one hydrant between two houses. And then, uh, I forget what year it was they come through and built bathrooms and put water in the houses and all of it. But, uh, and then, uh, before they liquidated the mill, the company sold all the houses to anybody that was -- they first give that one that 00:22:00was in it. Uh, first option was just to buy it. And then if the one -- if [then they?] didn't want it, that anybody could buy it, had the money or wanted it. And, uh, then most of them sold them to employee.

GEORGE STONEY: Now, what was it like to live in the mill village? Was it just like living anywhere else?

WARE: Yeah. Yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: We've heard that they had curfews, had to be in at a certain time.

WARE: No. (laughter)

GEORGE STONEY: Nothing like that?

WARE: No.

GEORGE STONEY: Then that we know over in Georgia, that if you -- if you, uh, say a girl got in a family way, that they -- both families leave the mill village, was no -- nothing like that?

WARE: No, no.

GEORGE STONEY: That wasn't what.

WARE: No.

HELFAND: You -- you said you were living in the Dwight Mill Village during the strike.

WARE: Yeah, on Tuscaloosa Avenue.

HELFAND: OK. Can you start with explaining what it was like to be living in the mill village, what the atmosphere was like when all this organizing was going on?

GEORGE STONEY: And everybody was home instead of working.

WARE: Well, uh, I was up on Tuscaloosa. See, I was out of the main part of the village. See, Tuscaloosa Avenue is, uh, on this end of Tuscaloosa is Tuscaloosa Avenue is the outer edge of the mill village. And, uh, the first is, uh, locked her down there, roll plate in the mill yard. And then, uh, plate in the coal yard. And the next block is where I lived, the second -- second house on the left. Uh, I went in to Jones on the store across the street. But, uh, that single row of houses, it stopped over at, uh, uh, Cabot Avenue. And that -- uh, Cabot Avenue has, some like to call it the bosses' houses, right, big, old houses. And, uh, they sold them to people that was in them, if they wanted 00:24:00them. Well, they sold all the houses they had to the people they -- the people who was in it got the first choice, there.

GEORGE STONEY: Now, that -- the -- the mill has just been torn down, and everything gone. How do you feel about that whole thing being gone?

WARE: Well, uh, Ceasar Cone come down here, they're negotiating a contract. And he is, uh, I think he is vice president at that time of Cone's Mills out of Greensboro, North Carolina. And Ford Spinks was on the negotiating committee for employers of Dwight Manufacturing Company. And, uh, [they all get tires?] at that time was [Rich Hotel?]. They was meeting up on the seventh floor of the Rich Hotel. Ford Spinks called Ceasar Cone a damn liar. Ceasar got up his 00:25:00little satchel, put his papers in it, went back to Greensboro, and about three weeks later, liquidated the mill. And, uh, uh, you'll find that most of the places you go, there are all officers high ranked in a textile union is radical. Whether it's in the North or South. They elect the most radical people to run the business. Am I right? And, uh, that's what happened to Dwight. That's how come it liquidated.

GEORGE STONEY: But how did you feel now that that's all gone? Do you feel that something's gone out of your life, or are you glad to see it there?

WARE: Well, uh, I -- I -- I'll just, uh, say that they was in the process of liquidating anyway. But not at that time. Uh, we had a big company at that time, had a big government contract on the piece of cloth they call [Captain Twill?]. That was used by the Navy and the Army. And, uh, they fulfilled that contract, and so they didn't have another, and didn't have no more Captain Twill. And, uh, had about 250 looms on it. And, uh, so when Ford Spinks called Ceasar Cone a damn liar, uh, that just hurried it up a little bit. But, uh, when, uh, they put up a notice for liquidation, people, "No, they won't shut that mill down." I said, "Don't kid yourself." Oh, they done spent two months [running it?]. (inaudible) It says there -- there are still new slicers 00:27:00sitting out there on the dock. I said, "I don't care if they had 10 new slicers. That won't keep them liquidating it." And, uh, about a week later, they started, uh, [told motors?], bring them looms out there on the dock, turn the steam on. They got to believing me then. Uh, they -- they didn't, uh -- they just hooked to it and pull electrical wires and all out of the floor. Uh, and people finally got to believing they would liquidate it. But the -- uh, there's a week or two I have -- when I started pulling looms out, they believe they'll just run the bluff. But, uh, uh, y-- you take i-- if you own 00:28:00a company, you employ me. If I can't make what you're paying me plus you some profit, you ain't got no business with me. And -- but majority of textile worker ain't got that attitude. They will find that everywhere you go. Uh, a majority of them has got their -- a negative attitude. They think the company owes them a living, and they don't have to work for it, just go in and do what they want to do.

GEORGE STONEY: Do you miss the old mill?

WARE: Well, in a way.

GEORGE STONEY: Just explain, "I miss the old mill."

WARE: Uh, well, uh, I miss it. But at the time it was liquidated, I wasn't working. But a lot of people lost their jobs that needed it. But, uh, most of them has got settled in other places, and other jobs. And some of them is 00:29:00better off now than they was when they was working at the cotton mill. But, uh, when they asked me and my wife to go back and apply for the job when the boss refused. And --

GEORGE STONEY: Well, we found a lot of people around here who have pictures, or, uh, pieces of bricks, so that kind of thing from the old mill. How do you feel about that?

WARE: Well, I -- I -- I don't see where that'd make you feel any better, have them (inaudible) old bricks, or -- or anything. But, uh, at one time, that place worked about 3,200 people. And when it liquidated, now, I b-- I worked in all -- all over the United States. I know what kind of condition this mill was. That was the best mill in the United States. Had the best machinery, best 00:30:00upkept machinery was in the United States. When they liquidated, they had two new slicers out on the dock. But, uh, if Ford Spinks hadn't have called Ceasar Cone a damn liar, uh, the mill might have run a year or two more [or something?]. I don't know if --