Etta Mae Zimmerman Interview

 JUDITH HELFAND: -- and says you can.

GEORGE STONEY: We're not quite ready.

HELFAND: OK.

JAMIE STONEY: Rolling.

GEORGE STONEY: OK.

HELFAND: OK. I'm going to wait until you finish scratching. OK. So tell me how strict the mill village was and counter that image of the parties.

ETTA MAE ZIMMERMAN: I start now?

HELFAND: Yeah.

ZIMMERMAN: Mr. D.M. Wood was superintendent and if he had to lay off one of a family he laid them all off. When we lived there in 1913 most of the Bearden's family had the measles and so did the Ingrams and so did the Zimmermans and they were out -- they were had the measles and they were all home. But sometime after they were getting all the measles, Mr. Bearden got 00:01:00drunk. Mr. Woods heard about it. So he give him notice to move and they didn't. Papa was over at Nix's store and Mr. Woods telling that they was going to put the Beardens out. Papa said, "Well, you might get yourself into it if you do." Put people out here never -- Papa carried him by the house and showed him the law book he showed him the law and in about three weeks one of the Bearden -- one of the Woods' girls married the Bearden boy. That was about the cutest story I know because he was going to get rid of the whole family but Madeline Woods married Clarence Bearden about three weeks after they 00:02:00were going to put them out.

GEORGE STONEY: Now compare Newnan and Hogansville.

HELFAND: East Newnan and Hogansville.

GEORGE STONEY: East Newnan.

ZIMMERMAN: Well, I was homesick.

GEORGE STONEY: Just say --

HELFAND: Can you tell us after we moved --

ZIMMERMAN: Made all the difference in the world --

HELFAND: OK, OK, OK. You gotta tell us -- well we don't know that you moved yet, so tell us why you moved or when you moved and then describe how you got homesick.

ZIMMERMAN: I didn't want to tell that but that was because I was moving.

GEORGE STONEY: Just say, OK, we moved from -- we lived in Newnan for so long and --

ZIMMERMAN: Nine years.

HELFAND: OK, start we lived in Newnan for nine years and I was the cause of us having to move to Hogansville, OK? Go.

ZIMMERMAN: We lived in Newnan nine years and moved down here in 1924.

HELFAND: OK, we're going to start again. Please --

ZIMMERMAN: Moved to Hogan.

HELFAND: OK, that's beautiful the way you said it, but when you touch the 00:03:00table I hear it so try not -- don't touch the table and start again, OK?

ZIMMERMAN: We lived in East Newnan for nine years. That was the longest we lived anywhere for a long time. And we moved to Hogansville in nine -- October the 24th in 1934 -- I mean 24.

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah, start again.

HELFAND: OK, let's start again. You moved in '24, right? OK, let's start from the top, OK?

ZIMMERMAN: We lived in East Newnan for nine years. Longest we've lived anywhere for a long time. But we moved to Hogansville in 1924 and there's all the difference in the world in the two working -- I went to work -- me and Leona both worked in the spinning room. Me and Leona both, but I didn't make friends too good in Hogansville. They were not friendly and I got homesick. So 00:04:00I'd go back to East Newnan on weekends for a pretty good while. We knew some people down here, Cranstons and Rogers, several families. But they just wasn't as friendly down here. East Newnan people, if we didn't know who come to work, we'd go ask them their names.

HELFAND: Now you were just telling me that you were the cause of having to move to Hogansville. So, start with, "I was the cause of us having to move to Hogansville," if you would and tell me why.

ZIMMERMAN: Well, I was the cause of us having to move. When Claude Boggs -- when this mill, the old mill in Hogan was on short time, there was a good many families moved to East Newnan. But Claude Boggs got an overseer's job and 00:05:00that was spinning and spooling and every time he could get anything on a kid he'd go bless them out about it. And I was a kid when he first went to work there. But when Leona went to work I was determined that he wasn't going to treat Leona like he did me. So I went over there -- I don't remember what I went to Leona's job for but she was crying. I said, "What's the matter?" She said Claude Boggs accused her and two other little girls trying to get up a union. I mean, she didn't even know what a union was except what Papa would read in the paper about coal miners and railroads. So I went to look 00:06:00for her. Went all the way across one spinning room, couldn't find them. Started across the other spinning room and I saw them crossing out that spooler and I went up there and told him. I mean, I told him he better not -- I said, "Leona don't even know what getting up a strike is." I told him he better not go down there fussing on Leona no more. And Eugene, my brother's working in the twister room, so he saw us out there and he come on out there. About that before we got very far in the argument, Mr. Woods walked up and he said, "Claude, what's this all about?" He said, "Well, I went and had a talk with Leona and Etta Mae come and took the big end of it." Mr. Wood told me to 00:07:00go to my job. I said, "I will when he owns up that he told a lie." Eugene just took me by the arm, pushed me towards my job, and it was after I left that he told Claude if there's any more of it, well, just lay the whole family off. We went home at 12 o'clock and told part of it. Eugene always -- I mean Eugene went to the barbershop. No, it was at night. It was 12 o'clock the next day. Eugene told Papa what Mr. Woods said and he said all of you go to the mill and just tell him you're leaving. But when I got up there he was writing 00:08:00-- writing out our time. When he brought it to me he just handed it like this. I said, "Thank you a lot, but if you'll go down to the house and see Papa he'll thank you more than I do." But Papa went to see both of them. Mr. Woods said, well, we could just go back to work but we didn't want to go back to work. So Mr. Harris told him a week or more after that, says, "Well, you lost a good family of employees." He said, "They'll be back asking for their jobs back in six months." But I never did want to go back. Nothing except I liked the people. I went back up there -- I went to church up there about three times, but I went back up there for parties at least a year after I left.

GEORGE STONEY: Well, when they fired you like that did you have trouble getting 00:09:00a job in Hogansville? Tell, uh --

HELFAND: Judy.

GEORGE STONEY: -- Judy about that.

ZIMMERMAN: No.

HELFAND: OK. Start with --

ZIMMERMAN: Tom Hughes was working --

HELFAND: Can you start --

ZIMMERMAN: -- here.

HELFAND: Can you start, "We didn't have trouble getting a job in Hogansville," start with that, please.

ZIMMERMAN: Well, I don't know whether Papa -- I don't think Papa even come to Hogansville. Tom Hughes was my brother-in-law.

JAMIE STONEY: We need to stop.

HELFAND: OK.

JAMIE STONEY: I'm hearing a rumble.

HELFAND: George, you don't want me to have her tell the story and why, do you?

GEORGE STONEY: What?

HELFAND: You don't me to have her tell that beautiful story with a -- with another angle, do you?

JAMIE STONEY: Let's go.

HELFAND: OK.

ZIMMERMAN: If I talk too much tell me.

HELFAND: OK. OK. That was an incredible story. It really, really was. OK. George -- could you tell me how -- what Homer Welch did here in terms of being a mill worker and then how he came to join the union and become a leader and try 00:10:00to make it as compact as possible.

ZIMMERMAN: Well, now I listen -- when Leona was talking she said he was organizing here. Them two men organized.

HELFAND: OK, OK. Now you tell the story the way you want to tell the story.

ZIMMERMAN: Electing officers.

HELFAND: OK, start from the top. I want to know how Homer -- what Homer did here in the mill and how he became an active union person, OK? And you describe it any way you want to.

ZIMMERMAN: Well, he was --

HELFAND: Start with, "Homer Welch". Homer.

ZIMMERMAN: Homer Welch run the dope wagon was what we called the dope wagon. They had Coca Colas, different drinks and sandwiches, cookies and candy. He come through twice a day. But when he joined the union and we met up there for 00:11:00the first time, they elected officers and Homer was elected to be president of our group. Now Homer might have got a few to join after -- after the officers was elected, but as far as I know he was just our president. But after Hogansville he did organize places. At least if I'm not bad mistaken, he went -- I don't say he organized that group in LaGrange, but he went down there and helped them out, I know that. And I don't know whether he organized in Alabama or not, but that's the place he almost got killed.

HELFAND: OK. Let's go after the strike what Homer -- I know that Homer went to LaGrange after the strike and he was working to help out those folks. So 00:12:00could you describe what you understand was to be going on in LaGrange and Homer leaving here and also tell us that Homer's family stayed with you.

ZIMMERMAN: Well, first of all they made a case against him about being in a union. I don't know where Homer was when we got home. But they said he had a gun -- had a pistol in his pocket when he got out up there but he didn't and we had to go to court about Homer having a gun. And I don't know just how long was after that strike that they began putting them out in LaGrange, but now Homer did -- I think he did help to organize part of them people. I mean, I 00:13:00think he took an organizer's place but he went down there every day and (inaudible) and Leona stayed with us. That's the reason the neighbors told that we was having union meetings long time after the strike. Grandpa and Grandma Johnson thought we was having union meetings and so did the Curry's, but now we lived next door to Mr. and Mrs. Baker and they were -- they didn't join the union but they were always good friends of ours.

HELFAND: OK.

ZIMMERMAN: All I'm saying is he's just a good leader. But he was always present at the meetings and they did have to -- they did have to get another -- somebody -- if I'm not mistaken Harry Barton was -- I don't know what Harry 00:14:00was, but he had some kind of office and so did Ed Lester. They had to get somebody in their places. I think Charles Frank Green took one of them's place. I don't remember who took the other. But we didn't have lots of meetings after we come back -- after Eugene tell me to call.

HELFAND: OK. Let's -- tell us what Harry Barton did in the union. How -- what his job was. OK?

ZIMMERMAN: As far as I know he was elected an officer.

GEORGE STONEY: Harry Barton.

HELFAND: Yeah, I know. Start -- can you start with Harry Barton and then tell us what he did and then what he went on to do in the union, OK? Start from the top.

GEORGE STONEY: And then what happened to him after.

HELFAND: And what happened to him afterwards.

ZIMMERMAN: I really don't know, Judy, what he did.

HELFAND: OK, OK. He was an officer, though, right?

ZIMMERMAN: Yeah.

HELFAND: OK. So, could you say --

ZIMMERMAN: But he went down to the picket line --

HELFAND: OK, start from the top -- start --

GEORGE STONEY: Never say "he." Say always Harry --

ZIMMERMAN: Barton --

HELFAND: Start again.

ZIMMERMAN: -- was elected --

HELFAND: Please, I cut you off, Etta Mae. Can you start with Harry Barton?

ZIMMERMAN: I said Harry Barton.

HELFAND: OK, I'm sorry --

ZIMMERMAN: -- was elected as some kind of an officer, but during the strike he went down to the picket line to break it up and we were told he had a gun. I don't know whether he did or not. But he got an office job. If Harry ever read that he'd call me up and bless me out, too, I guess.

HELFAND: OK. Um, after the strike -- talking about how the community reacted and you were telling me --

ZIMMERMAN: Well, I guess --

HELFAND: Start with after the strike.

ZIMMERMAN: Well, after the strike was when Mr. McCurry and Mr. Johnson watched our house because Homer Welch was going -- Leona was at our house. I don't mean she stayed there the whole time, but she stayed there at night most of the time and both of them thought we was having union meetings at our house and this is a long time after the strike. But we did pay union dues until they put the people out in LaGrange. And when they did we quit.

HELFAND: OK, this is very important so I want to start with "After the strike the union stayed to --" Can you tell me how your union stayed together? I know it was just 12 members paying dues, but tell me that in one full story and 00:17:00then explain to me why you decided not to pay any more because I didn't get -- I don't quite understand it --

ZIMMERMAN: They put the people out in LaGrange. I don't know why, though. I don't know just exactly who the 12 members were but there's three of us; me and (inaudible) and Leona.

HELFAND: OK. Etta Mae, you can't touch your microphone like that. OK, now what I'm going to ask you to do is to say OK, I'll tell you when -- OK, start now.

ZIMMERMAN: When we first got back to Fort McPherson, I think there's a good many of them still together, but when this conflict happened in LaGrange there wasn't but 12 of us paying our union dues. And I told Papa if they put them people out in LaGrange I'm not going to pay anymore union dues. So they did 00:18:00put them out and that's when me and (inaudible) and Leona all quit paying union dues and Papa, too. See, there's four of us.

GEORGE STONEY: Now, ask her and after that how much longer did you work in the mill?

HELFAND: Yeah, OK. And --

ZIMMERMAN: I worked until I was --

HELFAND: OK, after you came back from Fort McPherson tell me -- I know that you went back into Stark Mills. Explain to me that you went back into your job and how long you stayed and if there was ever any conflict because you were still believing in the union. OK, start with, "When I came back from Fort McPherson."

ZIMMERMAN: Well, when we came back we just worked on here. I worked until I was 63 years old. (Inaudible) come out when she was 65. Leona married Boots Palmer 00:19:00and when Charles, her oldest boy, was born she quit work because she couldn't keep nobody to get her -- keep her baby. (Inaudible) worked -- she was 65 and I worked until I was 63. I come out when I was 63.

GEORGE STONEY: Now, we have heard from a great many people that you and --

ZIMMERMAN: They always said I was first out and the last and to leave the mill. But I would never leave my job behind and I always tried to be the first --

HELFAND: OK, um --

JAMIE STONEY: OK, rolling.

HELFAND: OK, start with "I was the last one to leave the mill."

ZIMMERMAN: Different ones teased me about being the last one to leave the mill. After they put a fence around the mill they locked it after we all come out and 00:20:00see the was running night line -- they called it a night line, day line, too -- and we were in a six-room house when we left here but we had to go down to five because they started a night line and they worked people night as same as day. But they -- a lot of them teased me even after they quit working at night. Said I was always slow getting up there and I was slow going home. I never would leave my job behind.

HELFAND: Tell me about how hard a worker you were in the mill. I know you're modest but --

ZIMMERMAN: Well, see they changed frames three times. When we first come here I 00:21:00worked downstairs with some frames -- on some frames I never -- I didn't know there were such frames in the world because I had a big steel roller at the back. The only one upstairs. Now the frames upstairs were about like -- well, they was a little bit bigger than they were at East Newman, but they's something on the same order. Well, when the mill went short for 18 months they didn't start up the spinning room downstairs and the rollers rusted, but they finally moved it upstairs. And then after that they had real tall frames, you had to stand on tip toe and put the roller up like this and before I quit the 00:22:00mill they had some magnetic frames and they were still harder to reach and harder to work on then the ones we was working on. But I went -- I never have been back down there but one time. And you wasn't even know that you was in the same place I worked in all that time. They got -- they have clean floors. They don't h ave a bobbin -- a wood bobbin in the whole place. All the bobbins are pretty colored plastic -- even the spinning roving bobbin are kind of like jack-o-lanterns. You wouldn't know -- I wouldn't know how I ever 00:23:00worked in it because it's rayon and it's clean and it's pretty.

GEORGE STONEY: Oh, that's --

HELFAND: OK, well don't worry about how long it lasted but tell me about --

ZIMMERMAN: But it wore off.

HELFAND: OK, start with the friction and describe it to me.

ZIMMERMAN: Well, you can just tell that they didn't want to have anything much to do with you. And when my sister, Velma, married she was on (inaudible) but --

HELFAND: Can you start again? Can you -- I don't really -- I need for you to say -- I'll tell you when. OK, now.

ZIMMERMAN: When the strike was over the neighbors and friends that you had before, you could tell that there's friction between us because they didn't 00:24:00want to have too much to do with us. And when my sister, Velma, was on the student board the preacher that left here and another one coming, he went around and asked overseers and supervisors and people that made more money than we did to go to town. He really wanted them to move from Saint James from our church and go to town. And that's the reason I couldn't have as much respect for Harvey Holland as I always had because up until the strike he visited us and he 00:25:00sent Velma to Camp Viola, you know, to a youth group camp -- well, the church sent her but he selected her and the same way with the neighbors. But it just finally wore off. We were real close to the family next to us, but they just quit -- hmpff -- they'd turn their heads if we went by their store. There's Ruby and Maddie McCurry and Miss McCurry was in bad health and they had brought her up hom e a few times when she'd be sick, especially when her house caught fire. They brought her up there and put her to bed and she stayed up there that night, but they reported everything that went on up there.

HELFAND: You mean in your house?

ZIMMERMAN: They reported to the mill office.

HELFAND: OK. Start that again. They reported everything that went on in my house to the mill office.

ZIMMERMAN: As far as --

HELFAND: Start again.

ZIMMERMAN: Everything that they know that was going on in our house they reported it. I don't know whether it was him or one of the girls.

GEORGE STONEY: Sorry, we have to do that -- they reported to the mill.

HELFAND: Yeah. Start again and explain that they reported it to the mill and how that made --

ZIMMERMAN: Well, I just know, I said after the strike the family that lived next to us and had been good neighbors reported everything they know to report to the mill -- sup -- at the mill office -- the big office not to where we worked. They sent for me to come down there one day and I didn't know what it's all about. I go down there and they said, "Well, it was reported to us that 00:27:00there's a man stealing your coal last night." I said, "Well, I didn't see it but my niece did." But I said I didn't see it. The man that lives up on the corner come down and got two coal scuttles full of coal. But now that happened at East Newman all the time, too.

HELFAND: OK. Now --

ZIMMERMAN: Well, you may not know it, but we got better wages because it was organized at Winnsburg. See, they had a US Rubber at Winnsburg North Carolina and several years after the strike W.L. Martin was our overseer. He said they 00:28:00was going to vote on it at the mill whether to try to organize a union or not. W.L. sent J.C. Thomas down there to talk to me and J.C. didn't say much. He just said, "Well, there's no need in talking to you." He went back and told W.L., well, no needing him talking to me about a strike or Eugene Talmadge either. So W.L. comes down and I told him, I said, "Now, Mr. Martin, you know that I know that you live in North Carolina on account of the strike. And I know you don't like them but you will have to admit that the reason we got -- 00:29:00get the little raises that we get they're organized in North Carolina. They's all the same company. All of it was US Rubber. They had a mill in Winnsburg North Carolina and another place in North Carolina. But now there was US rubber mills in a lot of different places and some of them were organized --