R.J. Terrell Interview

CREW: Call it any time, George.

GEORGE STONEY: Go. All right sir, come along.

(pause)

R.J. TERRELL: You want me to go inside?

GEORGE STONEY: That's fine.

CREW: That's very --

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CREW: Yes, yes, (inaudible).

GEORGE STONEY: All right sir, come on.

TERRELL: All right.

(pause)

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(overlapping dialogue; inaudible)

JAMIE STONEY: Any time, George.

TERRELL: All right.

GEORGE STONEY: (inaudible)?

M2: Yes, sir.

GEORGE STONEY: All right sir, tell us about how you got started in the mill, and what you did.

TERRELL: Well, I first got started at night, sweeping. In the -- up in the card room, in the old mill. I started sweeping at night. And from there, they put me to running pickers, in the picking room. I run them a while, and then they changed me down, and had me at the open room, opening up cotton. From there, I -- they put me out on the yard. You know, on a truck with another guy, way (inaudible). From that day, [wake me up?] so long, and so they -- they got a truck over there to the [U?] mill, they wanted me to come over there and drive a truck over there with them. The superintendent, he didn't -- he didn't want me 00:03:00to go, he wanted me to stay on, you know, Mr. Reed. They finally got -- got -- let me come over there, and I started driving the truck over there at the U mill. That's the first truck they had, you know. And uh, I was driving there one day, when I stopped the truck, I saw the (inaudible). And (inaudible). The first driving license ever I had, they bought -- the company bought. Yeah. What they did, they furnished my driver's license, clean to (inaudible) otherwise, I was there. Until I -- until I retired. And (inaudible) yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: Now did they pay you? What did they pay you?

TERRELL: Oh, I would have told you what I -- what they paid me when I first -- did you want to hear that?

GEORGE STONEY: Yes, sir.

TERRELL: When I started at the mill, well I was just getting 10 cents an hour. And we worked from 6:00 to 6:00. (laughter) Ten cents an hour. Now I haven't forgotten that, about what we made an hour. When I retired, it's -- I don't know what. I'll tell you, I -- I got some little stubs here somewhere with -- we wasn't making too much. I don't exactly know what -- what we were making when I retired.

GEORGE STONEY: Now, when you first started working in the mills, uh, tell me again what you had -- what they had you doing, just repeat it, what they had you doing, and then what they paid you for, whether they paid you for doing all those specialized work, or whether they just paid you like a sweeper.

TERRELL: When I first started?

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah.

TERRELL: Well we'd make a -- when I first started, we'd -- we'd make from -- make from -- we would start at 6:00, work all night long, and then we'd get a -- just 10 cents an hour. Uh-huh. I was just sweeping then, but they never did raise -- well, well, they didn't raise my wages until afterwards, I, you know, I started working on the truck they raised it, you know, back over there, (inaudible). Yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: But you were telling us yesterday that they had you doing all these different things, but they still paid you like a sweeper.

TERRELL: Oh yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: And I want you to repeat that.

TERRELL: Yeah. Yeah, the old mill, that's right. (inaudible) before I left that they was paying more. Mm-hmm, before I left the old mill, they was paying 00:06:00more. I'll tell you, it went up to about 25 cents an hour, so almost, you know, 20.

GEORGE STONEY: Now back to, again, back when you were -- first started working in there, do you remember when that was?

TERRELL: What year that was? Well uh, I think I was about 20 years old. Where you can just (inaudible). About 20 years old, I think I -- I was starting to (inaudible) back then. Uh-huh, yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: Now I want you to say that you were about 20 years old when you started working there, and how old are you now? OK, start that again.

TERRELL: How old (inaudible) now? Eighty.

GEORGE STONEY: All right. Could you go back and -- see, we want all this just like I wasn't here.

TERRELL: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE STONEY: So you're just telling somebody for the first time about it.

TERRELL: Yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: So could you start off and say, I started working when I was 20, I'm 88 now --

TERRELL: Yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: -- and I was sweeping, and then I did all these other things that paid me 10 cents an hour, and all of that. Just like you never talked to me before.

TERRELL: Yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: OK? Start again.

TERRELL: That's right. You want me to tell you about the sweeping? I started out sweeping, cleaning the card room. From that, uh, they put me running pickers up in the mill there, I was running the picker room. Laps, you know, the (inaudible). And from that, to the [opening?] room, (inaudible) all that was at night, though. We'd make 12 hours. From that, they put me out on the yard. With the strike on the truck with Roy Wade. Yeah, so, well I worked there a long time, and he -- well I had to learn how to drive already. So they 00:08:00-- they knowed I could drive. So this -- they wanted me to (inaudible) U mill, drive a truck over there. So they finally got me over there, and that's when I started work over there.

GEORGE STONEY: Tell us about how you got paid.

TERRELL: Well, we'd get paid every week, I believe, on the -- after I got over there, I believe I got paid on through the Friday, somewhere like that. Once a week, you know.

GEORGE STONEY: Now, how much did you get paid when you first came there?

TERRELL: First came to the U mill?

GEORGE STONEY: No, the old -- when you first -- when you first came -- you came off the farm, didn't you?

TERRELL: No.

GEORGE STONEY: What -- where did you -- where did you grow up?

TERRELL: I growed up in Hogansville, around Hogansville here. With a -- I was born and raised right up here, (inaudible) up on what you call Granite Street, that's where I was born and raised. My daddy and them, he farmed, you know, we moved out in a little town. You know, (inaudible) kid. (inaudible) you seen Mr. Herschel (inaudible) pictures? Me and him -- me and him would play -- play together. He was a little bit -- somewhat older than I was. You might remember him.

GEORGE STONEY: And what brought you to the mill?

TERRELL: What brought me to the mill? Uh, I believe a man named Mr. Henry Cohen went down and talked with uh, Mr. Martin, I believe, Mr. John Martin. And they 00:10:00finally gave me a job. You know, every night, sweeping. That's what, really I got to be able to work in the mill.

GEORGE STONEY: And what did they pay you?

TERRELL: Ten cents an hour. (laughter) It'd be 12 hours, from 6:00 to 6:00. Mm-hmm.

GEORGE STONEY: What happened after that?

TERRELL: After? After I left, left the mill over there?

GEORGE STONEY: No, after -- after they paid you 10 cents an hour.

TERRELL: Mm-hmm. Well they finally went up, before I left there, I think about 25 cents an hour. I -- I don't know exactly what we was getting when I left the mill, per hour. But I transferred over to the U mill, you know? Of course, I know we got a little more, you know what I've got over there.

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah, we're going to have to hold it while the train passes.

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TERRELL: Oh, I don't remember so much of what I did, sure. But I know it -- I know we had a lot of folks, you know, had -- didn't have jobs though, couldn't get jobs. I know he put a lot of them -- gave a lot of them jobs. You know, I know that. Uh...

GEORGE STONEY: Did anybody ever talk to you about a union?

TERRELL: No. Didn't ever talk to me about it.

GEORGE STONEY: Just say no, they didn't talk to me about a union.

TERRELL: No, they never talked to me about the union.

GEORGE STONEY: Was there much talk about a union around?

TERRELL: Well I heard there was a lot of talk about it, but you're not -- they didn't talk to me about it, because the -- I reckon they figured I wasn't going to fool with it, no how. (laughter) Ah, so I know when they -- because I told 00:12:00you about when they closed down, they closed down, and my boss told me, he said, "Now you -- you won't have no job, I mean, you won't be working when you join them." He fixed a way for me to get food up at the store, up there in Hogansville, Mr. (inaudible). So (inaudible) so long when we went back to work, when I went back to work, I don't know. Yeah, but I knew they had nothing -- but some of them I know said they'd do it, lost their jobs. When I -- when I don't -- you know, (inaudible) but I didn't -- they never said nothing to me about it, because I always (inaudible) boss tell me to do, you know, or at least that's what I would do. And so, I was talking out, you know, I didn't have nothing to do with that kind of stuff. Uh-uh, what they did. Uh...

GEORGE STONEY: Why not?

TERRELL: Well, I just didn't take up with -- take up with everything folks told me to do. I mean, my -- I just didn't have nothing to do with things like that. Yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: Was it dangerous to do that?

TERRELL: Well, it might -- might have cost my job. (laughter) No, that -- I just didn't have nothing to do with things like that. Uh-uh.

GEORGE STONEY: Were there any other black people who did get involved in the union?

TERRELL: Well that's something I heard then.

GEORGE STONEY: Just say, well that's -- I heard some black -- some black people did.

TERRELL: Yeah, I heard some black people did. Mm-hmm.

GEORGE STONEY: Sorry, could you say, "Well I heard some black people did get involved in the union."

TERRELL: Yeah. Uh, some black people did get involved in the union. Yeah, 00:14:00mm-hmm, well, that's all I know. That's all I heard that. I don't know if it's true.

GEORGE STONEY: Do you remember a man named Homer Welch?

TERRELL: Yes sir.

GEORGE STONEY: Talk about Homer Welch.

TERRELL: Well, like me, he was working post over there, I believe --

GEORGE STONEY: Just -- just mention Homer Welch's name.

TERRELL: Oh, Mr. Homer Welch, yeah. Yeah, I -- I remember Mr. Homer Welch, that's all, mm-hmm.

GEORGE STONEY: Tell us about him.

TERRELL: Well, all I know is, (inaudible) what I know about him, all I know. I never knowed nothing, you know, no more than he just a nice man is all I know.

GEORGE STONEY: Do you remember when he was running the dope wagon in the factory?

TERRELL: Yeah, I believe I do. Yeah, I believe I do remember that. Mm-hmm.

GEORGE STONEY: What do you remember about it?

TERRLL: Oh, I remember he was running the dope wagon, you know, when I was in the mill, I might have bought something off the wagon, like that, you know, to -- see I was in and out all the time, because I was driving the truck, you see, I was in and out, I didn't -- didn't really work inside the mill much. Of course I had transferred stuff, you know, from one mill to the other. Yarn, cotton, still like that, (inaudible) transferred. So, (inaudible) transfer yarn to Granville, to be dyed, (inaudible) to be dyed, yarn, you know. Mm-hmm.

GEORGE STONEY: Could you tell me about, um, moving people in and out of the houses?

TERRELL: Well, we used to transfer some of them, you know, they would move in, over there in [Mexico?], then they -- and we'd had -- we'd move them over in the big village, you know, in them -- you know, in the big village. You know, Mexico is right across the creek there from [the office?]. You know where the office is now, down there. And so, that's when they had a man driving from (inaudible) I did, he couldn't -- he use to haul them logs, when he had that furniture on the truck, he just jumped up (inaudible) so that's what the guy said to him. And they got me, see? I'd been moving -- help moving stuff, you know? And I understood moving people, you know? And so that's -- that's what happened when (inaudible) man, because he -- he used to haul them logs out. (laughter)

GEORGE STONEY: How much education did you have?

TERRELL: Hmm?

GEORGE STONEY: Talk about your education.

TERRELL: Well I just didn't get none, that's all.

GEORGE STONEY: Just say I didn't get any education.

TERRELL: No, no.

GEORGE STONEY: Start again.

TERRELL: No.

GEORGE STONEY: (inaudible).

TERRELL: Well I'll -- I didn't have no education, but I could mostly do anything they asked me to do, more -- except an education, I didn't have that.

GEORGE STONEY: How'd they get you a driver's license, then?

TERRELL: How'd they get it? Oh, the company got it. Well.

GEORGE STONEY: Did you have to read and write to get a driver's license?

TERRELL: Well, not then. Not -- not (inaudible). I could write my name pretty -- pretty good, yeah, so (inaudible). I didn't have no education, but I -- 00:18:00well, finally made it through though, so far.

GEORGE STONEY: Tell us about your children, and their education.

TERRELL: Well, all them went to school, they got --

GEORGE STONEY: Say all of my children went to school.

TERRELL: Yeah, my -- my children, all of them went to school, they got educated (inaudible). When I think about my children, all of them got an -- mm-hmm.

GEORGE STONEY: OK.

TERRELL: Yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: Uh, Judy, what else do you think?

JUDITH HELFAND: (inaudible). Um, I'm interested to know about the picker room, the conditions, and picking up those bales.

GEORGE STONEY: OK now, uh, Judy doesn't know much -- as much about this as I do.

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TERRELL: Do in the mill?

HELFAND: Black men and women, what did they do for work in the mill?

TERRELL: Well most of them there, well back then, they -- they would scrub, you 00:19:00know, clean up, you know? And uh, they didn't run no machines back when I was there. But after I retired, a year or two after I retired, they put black women running machines. You know, you know. But black women, back in them days, when I was there, mostly was cleanup, you know? Yeah. And sweep. And mop, clean, you know what I'm saying, like that.

HELFAND: Now, you worked in the opening and the picking room, right?

TERRELL: Yeah.

HELFAND: Could -- I'm wanna to ask you about that, and I want you to describe to me what it was like. And what I need is for you to start my sentence again, and say, "Well when I worked in the opening and the picking room," and I'm asking 00:20:00you to do that so that someone will know what I asked you. OK?

TERRELL: Mm-hmm.

HELFAND: So, don't mention -- just mention the opening and the picking room when you're talking about it, and call it that, so I always remember what you're talking about, OK?

TERRELL: Mm-hmm. Do you want me to tell you what I did when I started working in the picking room? Uh, I mean, I told you about how I run uh, laps, you know, in the picking room, you know, and uh, you know, you know, cotton, you know, with cotton and (inaudible). And they moved me from there down to the -- to the opening room, setting up the cotton. And from that, back down out on the yard, you know, that's what I did. And...

HELFAND: Tell me, I've seen pictures of men pushing on those little -- on the wheelbarrows, big bales of cotton.

TERRELL: Oh.

HELFAND: Yeah.

TERRELL: Trucking cotton? Yeah. I used to haul cotton on my truck when I would transfer from one mill to the other. I'd have to -- I'd -- I'd unload, and go and put it up on the platform, I-- I've used a truck, dump truck, too. Well, in fact, at that time, I didn't have nobody on the truck but me. You know, and -- and (inaudible) I'd haul that cotton.

HELFAND: Could you tell me how heavy it was, and how many -- how much it weighed. Tell me, describe to me how much those bales weighed, and how hard it was, if it was, for a man to do that. And talk to me when you -- focus on me.

TERRELL: Well, it was -- that cotton weighed, I reckon, around about sometimes 5 and 600. They had some stuff that weighed nearly 1,200 pounds, different stuff, 00:22:00you know. But it wouldn't all be cotton. It'd be waste, some of it weighed more. With cotton, it weighed around, you know, 5 or 600 pounds, you know. You could truck it -- you know, truck it alright. Wasn't no trucking.

GEORGE STONEY: Was it hot in there? Did you get tired?

TERRELL: Well, sometimes it'd get a little hot (inaudible). Back in them days, I was young, I -- I didn't get tired much. Oh, I used to -- I used to (inaudible) I'll be on the outside, inside, outside too. I used to work out in the hot sun, you know, (inaudible) used to be hot, well after I got older, you know, I come -- can't stand it now. I could then, yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: How about the breathing? Did you -- did you have any mask or anything like that?

TERRELL: No. I didn't use (inaudible).

GEORGE STONEY: Just say I didn't use any mask.

TERRELL: No, I didn't use them. I didn't work in the mill much, you know, (inaudible) just going through, breathing the stuff in the mill would -- well that's -- I didn't use no mask.

HELFAND: When you -- when you were walking into the mill, carrying stuff, and you saw the guys in the opening room dumping out those -- opening up the bales of cotton and putting the cotton up --

TERRELL: Mm-hmm.

HELFAND: -- well, there must have been a lot of lint around, huh?

TERRELL: Oh yeah, (inaudible).

HELFAND: Could you describe that to me?

TERRELL: Oh yeah, there'd be a lot of lint flying, but I didn't pay no attention then, you know?

HELFAND: How was it --

TERRELL: Yeah, the biggest thing I -- my -- I used to haul asbestos, too. I would go (inaudible) you want me to tell you about that?

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah.

TERRELL: I used to haul it when I first started running asbestos at the mill. They had a little place on the upper end of the warehouse, we didn't have no big 00:24:00building now, like they have now. Uh, I used to unload it off of freight cars, I didn't know, you know, what -- freight boxes out on the track out there, from the mill. Well they come (inaudible) finally let me come on inside, and they had a railroad track come on inside by the mill, between the mill there, they unloaded it there. Yeah I used to haul the stuff when it first come out. And uh, yeah. I remember once, we uh, come from high water, got all up in the (inaudible) place where they had an asbestos plant down there. A lot of that stuff they had to throw away. It got wet, I'd have to haul it off. We had to haul it off and throw it away over in some big ditches, and (inaudible) asbestos stuff. Yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: Now, some people have told us about the big Fourth of July, uh, barbeques and that kind of thing that the company used to put on. (overlapping dialogue; inaudible)?

TERRELL: Yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: Describe them. Tell us about them.

TERRELL: Yeah, we used to have barbeques, and we, you know, like on -- in July, yes. We used to be up here this here, school house Cook School, up on the hill here, used to have them up there. Yeah, they used to --

GEORGE STONEY: Was that something put on by the company?

TERRELL: Yes sir.

JAMIE STONEY: (inaudible).

GEORGE STONEY: Now, when -- when you -- they had those barbeques, did you go to the -- to the main one, or did they have a separate one for you?

TERRELL: Oh no, we went to the -- the same one where, you know, uh, all us 00:26:00coloreds would be in one place, maybe whites be (inaudible). Just all of us were there. (laughter) Yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: I just want you to start again, tell Judy, see, Judy's come from the up north, she doesn't know anything about barbeques.

TERRELL: Yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: So just describe what the barbeques were like, and where you were, and all of --

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TERRELL: Yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: Tell her what a barbeque is.

TERRELL: Yeah, they had barbeque pits, you know, you know what, barbeque that meat, you know? And so, they had a table and everything out, you know, (inaudible) then we was -- we'd barbeque some place -- back at a place called -- the creek over there, there's a place that barbeques, yeah. And then, they -- they'd bring the meat and everything up to the schoolhouse, a lot of times we'd have it up there, you know, where we'd all (inaudible) serve, you know, serve ourselves (inaudible).

HELFAND: And you said that -- that at these barbeques, you all didn't eat together, is that right?

TERRELL: Huh?

HELFAND: At these barbeques, you -- all the black employees came to these barbeques, but you didn't all sit at the same table, is that right?

TERRELL: No. Uh-uh.

HELFAND: So could you describe that? That part of that to me, too?

TERRELL: Well, I know about it we just, all of us were there, (inaudible). Mm-hmm.

GEORGE STONEY: What about at the baseball games? Did --

TERRELL: Yeah. I used to haul them fellows, too. Ballplayers. Different places. And they'd be -- they had a ball club here then, the whites did. I used to haul them different places. Down in Alabama, down in Thomason, Macon, 00:28:00Atlanta, Newnan, (inaudible) used to carry them out to them places. They had a ball club here then, white people did. It -- finally they had a bus here. What I mean, it's like a bus, (inaudible) had to hook the truck onto it. (laughter) And is that they finally sent it to, I believe in North Carolina somewhere, we stopped (inaudible) the club went down there. The ball club. I used to haul them ballplayers.

GEORGE STONEY: (inaudible). OK.