Annie Griggs and Angie Rossner Interviews

ANNIE GRIGGS: You know, I married shortly. Not too long after that anyway. I left home and I got married. We all got along pretty good. It was a big family. Papa was boss.

JUDITH HELFAND: So, you didn't, um, so your father -- when you were real little, your father was actually a farmer. He wasn't working in the weave room then.

GRIGGS: That's right. He was a farmer then, yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: How old were you when you got married?

GRIGGS: Seventeen. Me and my husband both were 17. We was working at the Eagle Mill. He worked [only?] in the spinning room and I worked on the [other one?]. When we got married my mama didn't know who I was, who I married, (laughs) and 00:01:00never seen him. Oh, it was hot. Of course they was mad. You weren't allowed to do things like that.

GEORGE STONEY: But it worked out.

GRIGGS: It did, yeah. My boss and my dad was raised up together. He said, "You won't [give?] that boy six months." And I said he wasn't much of a judge. We lived together 60 years and four months. (laughs) We had some ups and downs all right since we were both (inaudible). We had plenty of those. I guess we growed up together.

GEORGE STONEY: Maybe it helped because you both had the same kind of background.

GRIGGS: That's right. Uh-huh, yep. That's the reason it lasted.

HELFAND: Did you have friends that worked at the -- did you know people and have friends that didn't work in the mills?

GRIGGS: Oh, yeah. Didn't work in the mills.

HELFAND: Yes.

GRIGGS: Yeah, I knowed a few but not very many. I didn't -- 'cause everybody worked in the mill was old enough and if there was get a job, you know, people --that's the way they worked then. They didn't work in the stores too much.

GEORGE STONEY: What did you do when you got laid off because I know there's a -- particularly with the Eagle and the Phenix. There were long periods of time when they just shut down.

GRIGGS: Did you know I [opened?] the shut down? We just had to do without. They didn't pay us nothing. No. And we go a short time. That was all the tough luck. We had -- sometimes we'd work three days a week and sometimes two. But you learned to stretch them nickels and dimes.

GEORGE STONEY: Let's go back to the strike because I'm curious to know why you joined the union when you did.

GRIGGS: I joined because I thought I was going to make more money, have better working conditions. It was going to do all these things for us.

GEORGE STONEY: Could you -- do you remember the people who told you that?

GRIGGS: No, I don't remember. I don't remember their names because they wasn't -- didn't live here. You know, they come from out of town and they had the meetings down at the union hall on First Avenue and they made us think 00:03:00we're just going to live high on the hog. They got all the money and we got nothing.

GEORGE STONEY: Do you remember how much you gave them?

GRIGGS: No, I don't. I did know at the time 'cause, you know, they had records of it, but I didn't keep up with it.

GEORGE STONEY: Could you guess?

GRIGGS: No, I have no idea. Because I know I wasn't going to get none. Wasn't no need to be thinking about it.

GEORGE STONEY: And, uh, you mentioned that you got penalized for striking. Could you talk about that?

GRIGGS: Yeah, they laid us off, wouldn't work us at all until finally we kept going back down there. They put us back to work. They served (inaudible) on us and (inaudible) the sheriff came out there and put my furniture out. Me and him -- I had a big fuss with him, but he set it out in the road anyway. But the people came back and, you know, got our house and they moved us back in another 00:04:00one. But that [wasn't?] the thing of it. We was throwed out anyway. That was the first time and the last time. (laughs) Yeah, it was rough. I wouldn't never be on there another strike because they don't do nothing for people that I know of.

GEORGE STONEY: Could you talk about that -- getting put out of your house?

GRIGGS: Oh, I didn't pay my [house rent?] they come out. I had the [little?] doors locked. I didn't think he's coming that late in the afternoon. I was setting on the porch and he called me outside. (laughs) One-armed sheriff. Never will forget him. He put every bit of it out there. That's the first time and the last time. I told my husband I'd never be in another strike. They all wanted to quit. I was going to work on. 'Cause the mill company 00:05:00didn't do nothing for you and the union didn't either, so you didn't have nothing. And you couldn't go get food stamps back then.

GEORGE STONEY: You mentioned that you were getting some relief.

GRIGGS: Oh, they give us $2.40 a check, you know, to go buy $2.40 worth of groceries. You know how far $2.40 go for five. And that's how many there was -- three kids and me and my husband.

GEORGE STONEY: Now, who gave you the $2.40?

GRIGGS: They got it through the welfare. Yep. And my husband, he went to work for the WPA. He made $9. I believe it was $9 a week. But -- we lived -- we lived until we both got back to work.

GEORGE STONEY: The WPA -- that's right, the WPA came along --

GRIGGS: Yeah, they did, uh-huh. Yeah. And they give meat -- beef away. You 00:06:00know that ground beef? They give that to the workers and all. It helped. I don't care to buy beef yet. (laughs)

HELFAND: You said before that you didn't go back to the Eagle and Phenix. You went to work at the Bibb.

GRIGGS: Yeah, I did, uh-huh.

HELFAND: Did you try to reapply at the Eagle and Phenix? Can you tell me about that?

GRIGGS: Do what?

HELFAND: Did you go back to the Eagle and Phenix --

GRIGGS: Oh, yeah, I went back and I worked up at the Bibb awhile and went back down there and they put me back to work.

GEORGE STONEY: What did you have to do to convince them to take you?

GRIGGS: I didn't do anything. [I'm coming on down?] I had to go to work and I guess they needed spinners.

GEORGE STONEY: How long was that afterwards?

GRIGGS: Oh, it must have been about two months after the strike. Yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: Mister [Tidwell?] said that they kept him waiting at least a month.

GRIGGS: Yeah, mm-hmm, yeah. I tell you, a lot of them was glad to get back down 00:07:00there. Sure was. Yeah, they was bad.

GEORGE STONEY: Uh, what did you hear about strikes in other places then?

GRIGGS: Oh, I would hear, you know, they done got big money and got wages and all. That was what they -- the union people told us, you know. Well, they had just finished up one in North Carolina, I believe it was. [What?] they got for working conditions and we didn't get nothing. That's (inaudible) nobody knows it was gone until it was gone.

GEORGE STONEY: Could you talk about the, uh, what kind of news you were getting during that time about the strike in other places because it was happening all over the country.

GRIGGS: Oh, yeah. They wasn't going to have it too good, no. Mm-mm. I don't know what the union men that was running it -- they bragged about it and of course mill people didn't have no better sense that to believe them. They thought theys was going to make more money -- it's all right.

GEORGE STONEY: Were you reading the local newspapers?

GRIGGS: Huh?

GEORGE STONEY: Were you reading the local --

GRIGGS: Oh, yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I don't remember what they said, though. There was plenty they never said about it, you know.

GEORGE STONEY: We've looked at the local newspapers and they have big headlines every day about it. I just wondered.

GRIGGS: Yeah, mm-hmm. Yeah, they had them in all right.

GEORGE STONEY: [Do you remember?] they were talking about a fellow named Gorman who was a leader, and uh, George Googe from Atlanta and all of this.

GRIGGS: Yeah, mm-hmm. Yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: I know, what does the name Talmadge mean to you?

GRIGGS: Well, he's all right. He suited me all right. He didn't bother me at all. He's about as good as the rest of them was.

GEORGE STONEY: Gene Talmadge?

GRIGGS: Yeah, uh-huh. I remember him, yep.

GEORGE STONEY: When did you start voting?

GRIGGS: Oh, I didn't start voting until -- I guess it was in the '50s. 00:09:00Yeah, so I gotta start voting.

GEORGE STONEY: Why'd you wait so long?

GRIGGS: I don't know. I just didn't fool with it. I reckon I didn't have time. Yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: Was that true of most of the women in the mills?

GRIGGS: I think it was, yeah. I think it was. They just didn't ever take time. They said, well I don't care who [they put?] it don't matter. That was about the size of it.

GEORGE STONEY: Now, one of things -- we've got a lot of newsreels of the times in the early '30s with mill workers. And the women look very different from how they did in the late '20s.

GRIGGS: Oh, yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: Bobbed hair and --

GRIGGS: Yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: -- and short skirts.

GRIGGS: Yeah, they wore [long ones?] and long hair.

GEORGE STONEY: So, it must have been a big change --

GRIGGS: It was.

GEORGE STONEY: -- at the time. Could you describe that?

GRIGGS: Yes, when they begin to cut their hair they didn't look like their own selves. I had mine cut before then. When I got married I had my hair cut because mama couldn't keep me from it, you know, and I was just 17. And everybody in the mill liked it first thing. I know they was copying [off?] They was getting theirs cut, too. And now it's been cut ever since.

GEORGE STONEY: What about -- how'd you dress in the mill?

GRIGGS: Just wore old gingham dresses -- what's called ginghams then, you know. We didn't wear pants. I guess they'd have killed us if we wore a pair of pants. And now I live in them.

GEORGE STONEY: I noticed in some of the old photographs the women -- some of the women seem to be having something like a uniform?

GRIGGS: Yes, some of them did wear them uniforms. I hated them things. I didn't wear them. In fact, I wore them one time a little while. And they didn't make us wear them. At the (inaudible) we could wear what we wanted to over there. The Bibb was bad about it. I didn't like them.

GEORGE STONEY: Do you know why they wanted you to do that?

GRIGGS: No. So we look alike, I guess.

GEORGE STONEY: It wasn't for safety reasons.

GRIGGS: No, no, no. It wouldn't have been safety. Just like wearing your own dress. But we were all dressed alike like convicts, you know. They all wear their clothes alike. (laughs)

GEORGE STONEY: You're talking about having fun. This film's going to be seen by a lot of young people --

GRIGGS: Yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: -- and they can't imagine people of your and my age having fun. So could you describe what kind of fun you had?

GRIGGS: Yeah, 'cause we was all friendly. We'd all help one another and we'd catch our jobs up and we'd go out and sit down, you know, and talk and have a lot of fun. And men folks go with us, we -- and none of us -- real pleasure. And one got sick and find us all right there with you. And so I enjoyed it.

GEORGE STONEY: Well, after the machines got speeded up, could you still do that?

GRIGGS: Yeah, but you couldn't do it as often. You had to stay right in with them then. They'd run over and tear up (inaudible). Yeah. The mills folks, you know, they all friendly towards one another anyway.

HELFAND: At the time of the strike what was the work like in the mill? What were the machines like? Were they going fast or what?

GRIGGS: Yeah, they run fast, uh-huh. They, you know, fast as they could run them anyway because it they cut them down slower, you didn't make as much money. And if the fixer come along and cut the speed on them or the doffers would go around and speed them back up or they'd make more hanks, make more money. And, so they got in a lot of trouble about that, too.

GEORGE STONEY: Now how -- when you first went into the mills you got paid by the hour.

GRIGGS: Yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: And later you got paid by the piece.

GRIGGS: That's right, yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: Could you describe the difference?

GRIGGS: Oh, yeah. You made more by the piece. Yeah, you made more because you kept your job running more. If a doffer let it stand you go hunt him up. Get him on the job. Yeah, I enjoyed working in the mill. That's all I knew and I guess I had a right to.

GEORGE STONEY: Did you ever have any injuries?

GRIGGS: Insurance?

GEORGE STONEY: Hurt yourself.

GRIGGS: Oh, no, no. Never did hurt myself in the mill, no. I was careful about that. I've seen people get hurt over there, though.

GEORGE STONEY: Do you remember the doctor?

GRIGGS: Yeah, let's see what his name was. We used to call him the horse doctor. Oh, I can't remember his name now. I had -- I [had been in?] the 00:14:00hospital with a woman by him and that was her doctor. And I said, "He's a horse doctor." She didn't like that at all. What was his name? Somebody else -- somebody talk to him -- he's dead now, I think.

GEORGE STONEY: Do you remember Dr. Winn?

GRIGGS: No I don't. Uh-uh.

GEORGE STONEY: OK.

HELFAND: You talked before about -- mentioned that the girls -- the women went out on line. Is that the first time you ever did anything --

GRIGGS: Yeah, the first and the last time.

HELFAND: What did it feel like to do it?

GRIGGS: Well, you felt good, didn't ya? You thought you was doing something, but when you got -- didn't have no job to go to you wish you hadn't of went. (laughs) That's right.

GEORGE STONEY: Did you carry signs?

GRIGGS: Oh, yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: Tell me what the signs said.

GRIGGS: It said we're on strike for more money.

GEORGE STONEY: Do you remember what organization it was?

GRIGGS: No, I don't. I really don't. We had more fun on the picket line 00:15:00than we did working down there. (laughs) They worked shifts. We worked eight hours in the day time and then they'd go out and, you know, and work -- they worked three shifts around a picket (inaudible). But it was all a lot of loss, too.

HELFAND: Did people say anything to you on the street when you were picketing?

GRIGGS: Oh, no, no. No, they didn't bother us. They was afraid to I guess because they had police and all them there, you see. Now there was a big fight up at the Bibb Mill. They had a fight and man was shot up there. But I didn't go back up there no more when that happened. I didn't see it and I heard it, but I left and I didn't go back. They were too rough. But down at the Eagle there wasn't anybody hurt, no fights at all that I knowed of.

GEORGE STONEY: Now we've seen in down in Macon, we've got a lot of newsreel 00:16:00about the strike down in Macon and they had -- they had coffee on the picket line and sandwiches and that kind of thing. Could you talk about that.

GRIGGS: Oh, yeah, they had it down there. The people would bring it, you know, the working people would. They'd bring it down there. They'd stop and eat the sandwich and drink them some coffee. Yeah, they did that, too.

GEORGE STONEY: How long were you out?

GRIGGS: I don't remember but I think it was around two months. I think it was. I'm sure it was because everybody was out of everything I'll tell you that. I ain't never want to be in another one. They've talked it around the mill since then, but they didn't talk to me. I tell them quit get -- don't have nothing to do with it. I ain't never go there and (inaudible) no way.

GEORGE STONEY: Have any of your children joined the union since?

GRIGGS: No. No, they -- 'cause they didn't work in the mills they worked -- 00:17:00my son -- one of my sons was a barber and the other one he was a meat cutter and the girls they didn't work, they got married. And so they wasn't working. The baby was still at home but she's working in the mill.

GEORGE STONEY: When did you have your first car?

GRIGGS: Oh, I think -- we had three kids when we bought a Model A Ford. We were in South Carolina. First my husband was living in South Carolina. We bought a Model A Ford, we give $8 for it. My husband paid $12 for a [battery?]. (laughs) I told him that was crazy. But you know, that old Ford run a long time. It -- we kept it a long time. We went to Columbus and back up to Anderson several times. But he give $8 for it.

GEORGE STONEY: When was that year?

GRIGGS: Oh, it must have been in 1935, something like that. Way back yonder. 00:18:00Probably was in '34 or '35, I think. I liked South Carolina. I liked it pretty good. We had pretty good working conditions, too, there.

GEORGE STONEY: So you worked here and then went up to South Carolina?

GRIGGS: Uh-huh, worked there awhile and then come back. Been back every since.

GEORGE STONEY: What brought you back?

GRIGGS: Well, my mother's health was getting bad and my husband wanted to come home. I didn't really want to move back. His folks was -- his mother and dad both was dead. But we moved back. So, been back ever since.

GEORGE STONEY: What part of South Carolina was that?

GRIGGS: Anderson.

GEORGE STONEY: Oh, yes. Lots of cotton mills around Anderson. We've been talking to some people around there?

GRIGGS: You have?

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah.

GRIGGS: My husband's sister and her husband worked in them all the time up there. She married a man from up there and so that's where they moved to out there after they got married.

GEORGE STONEY: Are you in touch with anybody else who worked in the mill with you at that time?

GRIGGS: No, I really don't seen none of them now. It's been so long since I retired. A lot of them's died over there. Now this lady lives on the corner down here and she worked in the cotton mill, Sally [Rags?]. She worked at the [Jirden?]. Yes, she worked like I did every since she was a little girl. All the mill hands lived in all these houses, but all of them's moved out. They bought homes outside, you know, so they're all moved out and they sold just about all of them. I think I'm the oldest one on this block, up this way. I know I am. They still got their house. All of them been sold, re-sold. So this is big enough for me.

GEORGE STONEY: It's a very nice house.

GRIGGS: Yes, a little shotgun house but it's big enough for me.

GEORGE STONEY: Goodness. OK, Jamie? OK. Thank you very much. It's great.

GRIGGS: You're welcome.

JAMIE STONEY: Why do they call it a shotgun house?

GRIGGS: Well, there's three straight rooms in the back. It's like this and they call these shotgun houses.

JAMIE STONEY: So, if you fire a gun in the front, go right through, wouldn't hit anybody, go right --

GRIGGS: That's right. You know, there used to be a lot of them in Columbus. I think they're torn down a lot of them now.

HELFAND: What was it like having so many people that all worked in the mill live all next to each other in one neighborhood?

GRIGGS: Yeah. Most of --

HELFAND: Tell me about that.

GRIGGS: Well, they -- who lived in this neighborhood?

HELFAND: Yeah.

GRIGGS: They were real nice. Yeah. The (inaudible) lived here. They was raised here. But Mister and (inaudible) dead and they moved now out yonder to --oh, Fort Mitchell, I believe, somewhere out that way. They live, you know, out in the country. And all around here was all the cotton mill folks lived 00:21:00here. Lot of them -- the (inaudible) lived there and he's dead. They lived up the street. The [Rags?] they all worked in the mill. There's a bunch of them. And the [Pauls?] they lived down there. Becky Paul's mother. Of course she's married now, she's not a Paul now. Her mother's dead. And her family, they were raised down -- there was houses below on this side of the boys' club? They tore them all down. And they was all raised down there. That's all they know. In the last few years they moved away.

GEORGE STONEY: Did your children all marry in this community?

GRIGGS: No, they married different people and one of them married one in Alabama. Leon, he married a girl in Oklahoma when he went in the Army. Of 00:22:00course they didn't [last?], but he's married to a Columbus girl now and they live in (inaudible) Beach, Florida. They work for Hardee's. He runs the Hardee's and she runs one. So they're doing pretty good. He was a meat cutter at -- but he got tired of that. So, and my daughter, Shirley, works at Little Swiss up on Second Avenue.

GEORGE STONEY: So she's still in the mills?

GRIGGS: Oh, yeah, she likes the cotton mill. Yeah. She works double just like I did. I was getting after her today about working. She said, "Mother, you worked them, too." I said I was tireder than you was.

GEORGE STONEY: Now, people who see this film are not going to know what you mean by working double, so just say, "Well, working double is..."

GRIGGS: Working 16 hours straight through.

GEORGE STONEY: Just start again and say, "Well, working double is..."

GRIGGS: Working double is 16 hours a week -- a day.

GEORGE STONEY: Do it once again.

GRIGGS: Sixteen hours a day is working two shifts all day.

GEORGE STONEY: And you're standing all that time?

GRIGGS: Yeah, yeah, sure you do. You don't sit down.

JAMIE STONEY: That's five days a week?

GRIGGS: Yeah, (inaudible) didn't work. You just worked that (inaudible) on your own. They want you to work you know you can volunteer and work, but they always want you to work because they're short of help.

JAMIE STONEY: That's 80 hours a week.

GRIGGS: Yeah. They used to let you work that long.

JAMIE STONEY: If you wanted to work 16 every day --

GRIGGS: No, I didn't work 16 every day. Just, you know, two or three times a week.

JAMIE STONEY: Three days a week?

GRIGGS: Yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: Even so, just still --

JAMIE STONEY: Sixty hours.

GEORGE STONEY: Sixteen hours iks.

GRIGGS: But see, we could get 60 hours a week to start with for a long time. I don't know how many's [the line?] now, but I know my daughter still works overtime.

HELFAND: When did your daughter start working in the mill?

GRIGGS: Oh, she started working in -- about 20 years ago.

(break in video)

GEORGE STONEY: You're ready? Sound (inaudible). OK. Just show us what it sounded like in the mill and explain.

ROSSNER: All right, do something. You can turn it off. I think it's all rewound. I'm going to have to rewind it all the way back.

(break in video)

GEORGE STONEY: (inaudible) got in that car and drove up there. And so we were talking with this Hollywood star, you know, and she was telling these women how hard her life was. She says we have to get up at seven in the morning and I'm in makeup for two hours and we work all day and at 5:00 I go home and just die. (laughs) (inaudible) and then after 4:00 that's when they got back (inaudible) working until 10:00 that night, you know. And they were nodding and they said, 00:25:00"Isn't she a brave girl? Doesn't she work hard?" Just -- (inaudible) the whole thing was fascinating. I was standing behind and I thought, surely they're going to just start booing when she said that.

ROSSNER: Egg her.

GEORGE STONEY: Not a bit. They just thought she was wonderful.

ROSSNER: She just lived up the road from us. We had -- we lived --

(break in video)

GEORGE STONEY: Tell me why you like to work on the magazine.

ROSSNER: The newsletter?

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm.

ROSSNER: Mainly the -- where should I look when I'm talking to you? OK. Well, mainly the reason that I like doing, especially the union member on the go, is because it brings the person into the limelight probably where they've never really been in the limelight before and just write an article about them and just seeing how much it means to them. It makes every word that I come up with worthwhile. I've seen -- I mean, they've never had anything like that done for them before, and it just tickles them to death. I wish I had a camera 00:26:00to get their expression whenever they get to read it. I've had them come up and hug me and everything else and that makes it personal, it makes it worthwhile.

GEORGE STONEY: Tell me about writing.

ROSSNER: How you mean?

GEORGE STONEY: I know you said at one time that you love to write.

ROSSNER: I've always loved to write. I keep journals, personal journals, I've -- I've always loved to sketch and writing. I wrote poetry when I was real small and I guess it's a way of expressing myself besides just talking, because I like to talk, too. (laughs) But I know people get tired of hearing me. I think I get that from my mother. My mother used to write little poems. I've got some of the things that she wrote and I like to put down what I feel on paper.

GEORGE STONEY: Beautiful, beautiful. Now, is it back there yet?

ROSSNER: Yeah, yeah. (inaudible)

GEORGE STONEY: Now tell us about the mill.

HELFAND: She lived at the Cannon Mills.

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah. Just explain it though, since y'all couldn't get in the mill, to show me at my work I'm going to show you what it sounds like.

ROSSNER: OK. Now? Well, since I couldn't get into the mill --

GEORGE STONEY: No, since you people couldn't get (inaudible)

ROSSNER: Well, OK. Since I couldn't take you into the mill with me so you could show everybody what the mill was like, I brought the cassette in. I've got the sounds of the mill on cassette.

(plays tape)

GEORGE STONEY: You talked about the rhythm of it.

ROSSNER: Yes, it definitely has a rhythm. It's (inaudible) it's the big looms and it has a -- as a matter of fact sometimes it feels like on the floor as [rocking?]. I guess it is rocking, really, and it's such a rhythm. So, it could put you to sleep. Of course it's real loud. We wear earplugs. You get 00:28:00used to it. You get used to the sound. It's definitely got a rhythm. You could almost make up a song to it.

GEORGE STONEY: Did you ever try to make up a song to it?

ROSSNER: No, but you can.

GEORGE STONEY: Good. That's it. Beautiful.

HELFAND: Do you think we could just get a still of just Angie listening to that a little bit?

GEORGE STONEY: You mean like this?

HELFAND: Um, just a -- you know, maybe it in front of her. Just a little -- just extend it.

GEORGE STONEY: A still?

HELFAND: No, (inaudible) move it with a video camera.

JAMIE STONEY: Just act like you're -- just --

HELFAND: Put it back on.

JAMIE STONEY: Turn it on --

HELFAND: And let's just listen to it.

(factory sounds on cassette)

GEORGE STONEY: (inaudible)

ROSSNER: You can almost see the shuttle flying --