F1: He said you're a [sweetheart?] for taking your time. So, I said, well,
I'll take my time. (break in video) Don't you get that on camera, it's the truth, but, I told him I wanted to see -- see [Ed?] Cannon. And, he -- Harry Cannon talked to me, he said, "I'm sorry," he said, "he's out on a polio drive." I said, "I knew you was going to tell me that." He said, "Well, I tell you what, I'll give you his telephone number." I said, "I know his telephone number," he said, "I'll give him your telephone number." I said, "I don't have a telephone, but a little grocery store across the street from me does, but this'll be the last of it." I turned around and walked out, and, you know, three days later, Charlie Cannon called me and told me to come up to the office because at two o'clock he wanted to talk to me. I got to go in the office and sit down and talk to him. Now, I didn't help myself, I don't think, but I really helped the others, because boss men then would walk by you -- they didn't have nothing to say to you, sh-- hers would walk right past her and never speak, and I know other people that did the same thing, not even a good morning or a hello. But, they called all the boss 00:01:00men, two by two, in the office, and Mr. C. A. Cannon went over all of them, then when they go down the aisle, see their he-- "How are you this morning, good morning, how are you?" I said, "Well, at least I broke the ice for somebody." I really enjoyed talking to the man, I think he's one of the greatest men that ever walked the streets of Kannapolis.JUDITH HELFAND: What did it feel like -- what has -- what does it feel like to
be a leader and to do what you've done in the last nine weeks; any -- talk about it, be specific.M1: I don't mind being a leader, uh, it's -- to me, to me it's not really
an honor, it's sort of an honor, to be a leader, but I'm not trying to put myself on a pedestal, that's not what I'm trying to do. What I'm trying to do is -- somebody has got to have a voice, somebody has got to come out and speak. There's a lot of people in there that feel the same way I do, but they're afraid. They're afraid of their jobs, they're afraid of losing 00:02:00their jobs, they got -- they're single parents, they're afraid of losing their houses, you know, they're just afraid, and the more people I feel like I talk to about organizing, the better I feel, you know. I get their opinion, they get my opinion, I can tell them the truth. When the company goes in there, when they put them in those meetings and they tell them all those lies, there's -- they got boucoup lies, bunches. As they tell them, I -- get to tell them the truth. And, the thing about it is, the difference is, they'll flip this stuff on the screen and tell them about it, and then they take it off and they flip it and they tell them about -- take it off, they won't even show it to them after the meeting, you know, they flip it so fast, and it's lies, but those people holding the meetings are not the ones that's doing the lying, you see. It's the people telling them what to say who's doing the lying. That's the way they feel. And, uh, I just feel like I -- I'm telling them the truth and everything I tell 'em, I've got it in black and white. I can 00:03:00show it to them, you know, in case they don't believe me, I can show it to 'em, everything I say.HELFAND: And, how does it feel to watch all the -- your fellow workers come
together in the last nine weeks?M1: Oh, it's -- it's been great, it's really been great, I --
HELFAND: Can you start out by saying -- watching the -- my, you know, the people
in the -- in my mill, come together and do this -- and be specific, talk about what you've seen and how people have pushed through, let's say, [pierre?], and what that means.M1: OK, uh, in my mill, everybody's come together; it's been great. We had
so many people that were afraid to come out, and everything, and -- and talk about the union. There were several people that -- that came up to me and said, "Listen, I want to talk to you, but let's get together after work, you know." I said, "OK, we'll go over to the Union Hall and talk." You 00:04:00know, that's neutral ground, you know. I said, "We'll just go over there and talk." And they came over and talked and uh, after they heard, after they heard the truth, they signed cards, you know? Saying, "I support you, I signed up for the union, we're going to be an organization." And, before, like when the campaign first started, they were bunches and bunches of people, who right now stand beside me, who wouldn't even talk to me, you know. I mean, they were actually scared to talk to me, afraid of boss man, or the supervisors would see them talking to me. Even outside the fence on the gates, when I was leafleting, they would d-- you know, they wouldn't talk to me 'cause afraid of the supervisor might be sitting in the parking lot taking picture or something, have some camera crew. Which they did have a camera crew, we know that. And, they -- they were afraid that they would be seen on camera, pictures or something, talking to me, you know? 'Cause I was a leader, I am a leader. And, uh, but when -- when it all boiled down here for the last about 00:05:00four weeks, everybody's saying they kept showing all these -- all this propaganda on the screen and then these meetings and everything, and people -- even anti-union people walked up to me and said, "You know, that -- that meeting was all lies," they say, "I'm still going to vote no, because I don't feel like we need a union." And I said, "Well, you'll be sorry." But, "Those were all lies. And we knew it, we knew -- we knew what they said in that meeting was lies." And I said, "Well, don't that give you the reason to vote yes?" And they would say, "Well, we're afraid that they'll fire us. We're afraid that we'll lose our benefits." And, I assured them that where you are, is where it stops, it can't do nothing but get better, and a lot of 'em were afraid that I was lying to them.GEORGE STONEY: Now, where -- why weren't you afraid that you were going to
lose your job? I mean, after all, you're not wealthy.M2: Well, the reason I -- reason I'm not afraid I'm going to lose my job is
00:06:00because I got a -- I got a career. I'm a truck driver, I'm a professional truck driver, you know, if they -- if they -- if they get rid of me, you know, they gonna have to have a real good reason to get rid of me, and if they do get rid of me, I don't have anything to lose, I don't have no benefits. Ten years from now if it stands as it is, I'm not going to have any benefits. All the chance I got is investing some of the money I make on my own, because they're not going to invest it for me, I can't trust 'em to. My dad couldn't trust 'em and he didn't realize it, but, uh, he invested his money with the company and lost it, you know. I'm not going to invest with them because I don't want to lose what I got.HELFAND: Are you going to get a union?
M2: I'm going to get a union. I'm going to get a union; I guarantee you,
we're going to get a union. Uh, if they -- if they ever turn this election, which, uh, Mr. Fitzgibbons would -- would probably -- I'm thinking Mr. Fitzgibbons will overturn the election, because, if we go into those 538 votes, 00:07:00the 538 challenges, all that court time, and all those legal fees, is really going to cost him a lot of money. And money is all he's after, that's the whole thing in a nutshell, and if -- if we go into those 538 vote -- uh, challenges, he's going to lose a bunch of money. But, if he overturns the election, and does it again, just has another election right behind this one, and says, OK we'll play fair, he's out to lose less money with a union.HELFAND: OK, all right, yeah. Um, could you just -- what is it -- I mean, I
don't know, I'm just -- I'm just wondering if you could tie it together; your grandmother's experience and your parents' experience into yours, and what -- yeah -- and what it feels like when you're fighting for this union. Are you fighting for all of you? 00:08:00M2: That's right.
HELFAND: Can you talk about that?
GEORGE STONEY: That -- sorry, I got -- just tell what your father did, your
mother did, your grandmother did, and you did; that is, your mother leafleted at the gate, your father supported you, your grandmother gave you the tradition, and now what you're doing, so that we -- the audience gets an idea that, you know, here's the line of influence.M2: OK, all right, all right. My grandmother, my grandmother started the
tradition, back in the '20s when she went to work in the mill, cotton mill workers. My dad, he supported me through the whole union drive, he's -- he's been behind me 100%, and he sees how the union could do some good. Mom, she's -- she supported me in the union drive too, she stood right behind me, and she's been out -- she's got out and leafleted gates, you know, been out 00:09:00with the -- with us workers out leafleting on the gate, she'd go to the gate and support, too. And, uh, what I've done it's just virtually just been a, you know, it's just been downhill, and I'm at the bottom down here, you know? They're -- they've done done their dues, you know, they done put in their time, and here I am, I'm just still in there chugging at it, you know?GEORGE STONEY: OK, hold it, I want you to do that one more time, and Jamie, this --
JAMIE STONEY: Yeah, (inaudible) this hand with it.
GEORGE STONEY: Yeah, that's right. And go for each one. OK, let's try it again.
HELFAND: You're doing a lot more than that, man.
(break in video)
GEORGE STONEY: It's -- with the same kind of enthusiasm, but we're -- we
just need it for our purposes. You did fine, we just want you to do it again so we could hold on each individual as you talk about them.HELFAND: And look at us.
GEORGE STONEY: Yeah.
M2: Well, Grandma --
GEORGE STONEY: Yes.
M2: Grandmother started the tradition in the cotton mill back in the '20s.
Grandmother was a cotton mill worker, and -- and she started it. Uh, Dad went to work in the -- in the cotton mill and it just -- it just came right down the 00:10:00line to me. He supported me 100% through the whole drive, even before the drive started he was all for it, you know, and it just kind of flowed down to me. And Mother, she just -- she uh, well she got out and she leafleted the gates and uh, stood right beside me through it all and supported me and uh, they just -- they just encouraged me and gave me the uh, the drive that I've got to get out and -- and talk to these people, go to houses and go one on one with them, you know, and just tell them like it is. And I'm not going to stop, I'm going to always be union.GEORGE STONEY: Great, now, [you'll hold it all together?] still picture of
this textile traditions.M2: OK.
GEORGE STONEY: Judy?
HELFAND: Yeah?
GEORGE STONEY: (inaudible).
HELFAND: Yeah, yeah.
F1: I'm going to get me another drink (inaudible).
M2: (inaudible). Sit down Mother, he's doing it.
JAMIE STONEY: I'm just grabbing close-ups.
00:11:00F1: (inaudible) he's focusing.
JAMIE STONEY: [Maybe?] that kind of a --
(break in audio)
F1: That's what I'd like to d--
(break in video)
JAMIE STONEY: This is the Cannon Mansion, uh, on Union Street, in Concord, North
00:12:00Carolina. (pause; background noise) This is another shot of the Concord Mansion on Union Street in Conne-- Concord, North Carolina. Hope this is long enough 00:13:00for you Judy, I'm counting. 00:14:00(pause; background noise)
(break in video)
GEORGE STONEY: OK sir, Mr. Rouse, could you tell us how you got to this town?
00:15:00J.K. ROUSE: Well, yes. Uh, I came here in 1921 from Davy County. We were right
near Mocksville, North Carolina, in fact there, I worked a farm, across from the old Joppa Presbyterian Church, and we lived in a foster home up there, the home of [Pierre de Studernay?], the celebrated Frenchman taught school, lived -- and taught school -- he had an academy there. As you know, Pierre de Studernay was due to be reporting to uh, a general of Napoleon, so I came from the same, from Mocksville, went to school in Mocksville and the academies, and came down here when I only had about a seventh grade education. So, uh, I met Mr. [Winged?] -- 00:16:00not Winged, Mr. Williams, uh, met this preacher -- to be a Methodist preacher, Clarence Williams, and he taught -- told me I'd be good to go with him back to school, and I left here and went to the Southern Industrial Institute in Charlotte, North Carolina; and stayed three years and a half, until, uh, the school closed down in December. Then I transferred for three or four -- for four months down to [Louis Creed Academy?], which is now [Carmel?] College, and uh, next year I went to [Wingate?] College, and spent two years, then went on to Wake Forest, and were due? to graduate in 1930. My name appears in a yearbook from 1930, but, uh, Dr. [Pascal Woodner?] was the head of the Greek department, wouldn't approve a course I had taken at Wingate, and I had to go back in 1931 and graduate in the summer school. 00:17:00GEORGE STONEY: Would you tell us what happened when you first came to this town,
you was telling us some things.ROUSE: Yes, when I first came to this town we -- we -- we lived at, uh, for two
weeks until our family here, at the old Kannapolis Inn, which was run by Mr. Funderberg and, uh, when we entered there, they told us the next day, we had a -- we were due to meet a man by the name of Nieson Coggins, and took care of us into our work, and they told us that their union was throwing rocks at us and what probably hit us was rock, but we didn't have any trouble, the union had been completely destroyed or broke up. So, we went to work and I went to work in 1921, in September 1921. And, we all had doing -- I only worked here until the next, uh, next spring, and I went to this school, yeah. 00:18:00GEORGE STONEY: Now, when you came back, you were, uh, working at the YMCA,
could you tell us the way that was?ROUSE: Well, well, I tell ya, the YMCA was right here across from the Cannon
Mill, Fieldcrest on the corner there, very large. One time we had over 12,000 members, one of the largest in America.GEORGE STONEY: Now, when you were there, in 1933, do you remember what happened
when the -- the NRA came in, could you describe that?ROUSE: The NRA? Well, the NRA improved conditions, I first -- when I first came
here, I worked $2 a day, and later on I made $2 and a half, but, uh, when, uh, when I didn't come here to, uh, to work at the Y until I graduated college, and had taught a year down in high school at Concord.GEORGE STONEY: When did you come here to work at the Y?
00:19:00ROUSE: 1933 --
GEORGE STONEY: Well, in 1934, right out in front of that Y, there was some -- a
lot of troops; could you talk about that?ROUSE: Yeah, well I'd rather leave after Mr. Wingate, he don't know about
that, we -- they come in here when they had trouble. He had a flying squadron, I think he came in here, and so I -- I do know that the NRA did include -- did cut the hours down, we worked ten hours a day, so they cut it to eight and it was a good idea, that. But, I went to work at the Y during the Depression. So, it was low pay, and -- for a college graduate, but it was better than not having a job, and I worked there for 38 years. And, uh --GEORGE STONEY: Now, some of the people who lived in the village then, have told
us that the Y was so good because they had hot water and showers; could you talk about that? 00:20:00ROUSE: Yeah, they did have a hot water for all the time, all the time, hot
water, had a swimming pool, and they had all kind of facilities. And, they had a ho-- like the reading, they had a whole reading room where I went to -- read the newspapers, and I got an interest here by the library. They operated, the YMCA operated a bowling alley, pool room, library, and a ladies' department, and a men's department; we had a broad program, and our early, uh, we had a volleyball team one of the best in America here. We won several national championships, and, so, they had that and they had uh, baseball in the summer, and basketball in the winter, and this volleyball.GEORGE STONEY: Was that all sponsored by Cannon?
00:21:00ROUSE: Cannon Mills sponsored every bit of it, they picked up the tab, more or
less. They only charged $2 a year membership.GEORGE STONEY: That's -- that's impressive.
ROUSE: So he, he was -- he was good on that. All the Cannons, James, William
Cannon, and Mrs. C.E. Cannon, father, son, they all, all -- all the Cannons were interested in the Y. They had religious instructions; they let religious people come in, churches and worship at the Y, things like that.GEORGE STONEY: Well, after all, it was the Young Men's Christian Association.
ROUSE: That's right, it was definitely so. And I worked for Mr. [Festman?]
came here in 1932, and during that time of the Depression is on and I was working downtown working for Belk Department store part time, and Mr. Festman invited me up there to get a job, and I worked for him for 38 years. I worked 00:22:00'til he died, and I worked 'til I retired.GEORGE STONEY: Well now, if the wages had been improved a lot, and the hours
cut, why do you think that they were -- there was that union trying to get in in the '30s, in the -- '34, you have any idea?ROUSE: No, I don't have, Mr. Wingate would probably be able to give you an
opinion on that, I don't know why that -- that conditions did improve, I don't know who, I don't -- I'm not an authority on unions and I don't know anything about the union business, I've never come under a union and never had interest in the possibility. So, that's -- that's about it.F2: Come on in.
GEORGE STONEY: Mr. Wingate?
WINGATE: Hey.
ROUSE: I mean, yeah he want to know why they come in, or something from the
labor point of view, and, uh, I didn't know about that, so I'm glad that you -- you might know a little more about that [the truth?]. 00:23:00WINGATE: Well, I didn't come here 'til '35.
ROUSE: Well, that's pretty close to it, though.
GEORGE STONEY: Do you remember what were peoples' reactions inside the Y when
you were there, to those -- those troops being around?ROUSE: Well, we didn't do -- we -- we just went along with it, we know it was
the Cannon Mill -- I mean, we went along with what Cannon Mills wanted to do, the Y was under the supervision of the Cannon Company and so we went along with what -- what, uh, what the company wanted to do, as the officials, that's what we did, we didn't -- we didn't have no opinion. I didn't have an opinion.GEORGE STONEY: Now, when the -- the troops were hanging out there, did they use
the Y, or?ROUSE: Ah, let's see, now, seem like they camped somewhere.
WINGATE: They stayed at [Marietta Hall?]?
ROUSE: I believe so. I believe so they didn't stay at the --
GEORGE STONEY: OK, I'm going to ask you in just a few minutes, but we'll mic
you then, if you don't mind, but, could you tell about that from your memory? 00:24:00ROUSE: Well, all I remember is we had the troops here, I think it was what they
was calling a flying squadron, he come in here from Gastonia and Charlotte, I think they were going all over the state. So, I don't know -- I didn't have an opinion. Fact is, I was too -- too near the Depression to criticize my job, so I was concerned of keeping my job, I was out of work for a year, I was in part-time work down at the -- downtown to the old Kelly Store, and, uh, Holbrooks and the Belk Department store. I sold bankrupt stock, I mean, people went broke here. The town was in bad shape, and I didn't have an opinion to -- other than that. I -- that's the way I felt.GEORGE STONEY: Now, you were saying that -- could you describe the town at that
time? You were telling me about, uh, the Cannons owning everything, but then, 00:25:00how was it when -- we talked to people now and they're kind of nostalgic for that time, could you ex-- describe the town and ex-- have any idea about that?ROUSE: Well, I don't -- don't know exactly to describe it, for all that day,
I thought we were a little ahead of the -- most of the textile mills in this section; so, we were leader, we -- Cannon Mills was always a leader in the textile business. So, as far as I was concerned, we were the best, the way I looked at it. 'Course, we had problems here, people been laid off and temporarily, but most of them, we got along good.GEORGE STONEY: Were you living in the -- the mill village?
ROUSE: Yeah, I had to live with my father down on Rose Avenue in the early days.
GEORGE STONEY: Did he work in the mills?
00:26:00ROUSE: No, he was -- he did work for a short time, but he was employed by Mr.
E.J. Sharp, who was head of the YMCA and also the Kannapolis school board chairman, to take a job over at the high school to look after the property, kind of a custodian, and --GEORGE STONEY: Now, you're onto something that we'd like to clear up. We
are under the impression that you couldn't live in the mill village unless you worked in the factory.ROUSE: No, I --
GEORGE STONEY: Could you explain that?
ROUSE: Well that -- that's not right, you could live -- and it all, most of
them were lived in --GEORGE STONEY: I'm sorry, could you start that sentence over, because we need
it (inaudible; overlapping dialogue).ROUSE: Well, I say, that is not true, there was a few people selected, uh, to
live in it when they were working for the interests of the town. My father was in the mill, and so they transferred to a school, and so, um, there weren't no conflict factors, they gladly gave him a house and gave it right close to the 00:27:00Y-- I mean, the school, and so, uh, there was a -- was a -- an exception to that rule. And most of them, I'd say 99%, may have worked in the mill, but you could, you could get a house if you was working for the Cannon Mill interest, that's my opinion there. At least, my daddy got one, anyhow.GEORGE STONEY: So then, if it was in a larger sense, the Cannon community, it
wasn't just the people who worked in the mills, am I understanding you right?ROUSE: I don't -- well, I -- well, I don't know how to answer that question.
I --GEORGE STONEY: What about the churches here?
ROUSE: Churches are yeah -- Mr. Cannon promoted those, fact is, I got a book
here on -- you got a church book here by [Bill Workman?], would give you a kind 00:28:00of -- where the deed -- original deed for the First Baptist Church was in this book. So --GEORGE STONEY: Now, would you mind telling us about the -- the book you wrote
about the black man who had a cotton mill?ROUSE: Well, I --
GEORGE STONEY: Just, pull it out and show it to us, and then we'll talk about it.
ROUSE: I -- I, uh, I don't know, you can ask some questions.
GEORGE STONEY: Look, I'm sorry, let's try that again, I want you to show it
to the camera.ROUSE: I will say this --
GEORGE STONEY: -- I want you to show it to the camera, you see, like that.
Let's start this at –(break in video)
ROUSE: Uh, this book and all my books I did it more or less under the
supervision -- I mean, uh, got help from a historical soc-- a review in Raleigh, and I also, uh, Department of Archives and History, and they -- when I went over there, they told me this is the best book I'd written.GEORGE STONEY: Tell us about the book, just as though we'd never heard about
it before. 00:29:00ROUSE: Well, it's been a long time since I'd written it, and I forgot all
the details, you would have to take the book itself and you'd get my point of view.GEORGE STONEY: But, for our television audience, could you say, "This is a
book about," name the man, and say he was the one black man that had a cotton mill.ROUSE: Yes. Uh, this book is The Noble Experiment of Warren C. Coleman by J.K.
Rouse. It has a picture on the front of a plot of land over on west Concord. It tells about, uh, Mr. Coleman being a leader in the black community; he owned about 50 houses and real estate in Concord, the only property owner where the JC Penney company owned that, and also several -- and uh, building lawns 00:30:00sectionals, [Home Depot's 3D props?] all over town, he lent money, and he was considered a very, very outstanding businessman. He was a President of the North Carolina State Fair, and he owned one of the original telephones in Concord when the telephone company -- he owned property all over town, and he was a very -- but most of the facts beat around -- would come for anybody reading the book.GEORGE STONEY: Now, could you tell us about him as a textile manufacturer?
ROUSE: Well, uh --