Cynthia Haynes and Blanche Willis Interviews

 GEORGE STONEY: (beep) You don't get all those white little things on the -- again with the tape.

CYNTHIA HAYNES: When you say union, do I think about strike? Yeah.

JUDITH HELFAND: OK.

HAYNES: Well, yeah they make me mad, but I can't be angry except when they doing in. (laughter)

GEORGE STONEY: All right.

HAYNES: The way the company fights the union is through printing material about strikes that happen 50 years ago, 30 years ago. They took 'em in and showed 'em a movie of a strike that the coal miners had in 1959. And the people came out [life?] and they said the -- the people in the movie had on bell-bottom pants and cat-eye glasses. And they were actually laughing at the company for showing that. And they've got a paper posted on the office window now that says, "All the strikes that ACTWU has been in." And they got list of companies and strikes. And the strikes must not of lasted long because I've 00:01:00never even heard of the companies and it tickled me to know that that many companies has a union. That's how I looked at it, but some of the people don't look at it like that. When they see strike, they think about starvation, not being able to pay their bills, and that's why it goes against the union and the company knows it and that's what they use it for. And [yous?] is next. Anytime we'd get a letter from the company, it will have strikes and dues in it three or four times and have it underlined.

GEORGE STONEY: Why do you think the company is fighting the union so hard?

HAYNES: Oh, I know why they fight the union so hard. If the union couldn't help us, they would not be fighting it that hard. They know the union can help up and the big executives is gonna have to empty out some of their pockets and that's what hurts 'em so bad. And that's why I couldn't go to the meetings because I asked 'em that. I said, "if the union can't help us, 00:02:00why does the company fight it so hard?" And he stuttered and told me that, "It drives a wedge between management and employees. And they spend more time negotiating than they do running the company." And I didn't get to go to another meeting. And I'm proud of it, too.

GEORGE STONEY: Well, now, how did they bar you from those meetings?

HAYNES: Well, when it come time for the next meeting, the supervisor would come around and tell each employee, "Go to a meeting." And they'd bypass us. Well, after that, I went to the meeting and my supervisor walked over to me and my coworkers and said, "How y'all doing ladies?" (laughs) We said, "Fine." He s-- I said, "Don't we get to go to the meeting?" He said, "No." I said, "Why?" And he said, "Well, we know you're all for the union. We can't change your mind." And I said, "You got that right. You can't change mine." I said, "You'd have to kidnap my mama to change my mind." And he said, "Well, we ain't gonna do that." So, that's -- 00:03:00that's how it happened. From then on, about 15 of us couldn't go to a meeting. But we was proud. (laughter) It tickled us. The only reason I wanted to go to meetings, though, was so, when they start telling their lies, I could embarrass 'em and ask 'em questions that would make 'em tell the truth. And that's why they didn't want me in there.

JAMIE STOENY: Sure. I'm just going to grab a couple while all you are asking questions.

HELFAND: OK. Do you want to show us any of things that --

HAYNES: Yeah.

HELFAND: -- they were giving out at -- you might want to say, "I've been collecting this." And go into why you've been collecting this and show us how they using, you know, images of history to make people frightened.

HAYNES: OK. I've been collecting material from the campaign. I've collected things I got from the union and, then, the letters the company gives us. And you can see right here, (reading) "If you're on strike, there may be lots of time to think about how you voted on election day. Keep busy. Vote 00:04:00no." And it shows people here idling -- not doing nothing. And that works on the minds of poor people 'cause people here just live from hand to mouth. And when they see strike and see people not working, the first thing they think about it starvation and not being able to pay their bills. And the night we voted -- me and my, one of my co-workers, were union observers and we had to leave at 8:20 to go to the polls. And at 8:30, she was passing out literature about strikes -- my supervisor. And they're not suppose to pass out literature after 24 hours before the election. They have to give the union time to respond. And they didn't that night. They violated every regulation that they're not supposed to. They even had to post a notice about the things they 00:05:00violated in '85. They had to post it in 60 days. And they've come right back and violated the same regulations again.

GEORGE STONEY: Have you ever been in a strike?

HAYNES: Uh-uh. My aunt has. She worked for AT&T and she belonged to [CWU]. And she's walked a picket line.

GEORGE STONEY: But you've never done that?

HAYNES: Uh-uh. I want to. (laughter) Was I supposed to say that?

GEORGE STONEY: Well, now, another things we've noticed with the people up there is that there's so much spirit in the group. And where do you think that comes from?

HAYNES: The union people? The union supports? Well, they know if they get a union that things are going to be so much better. They got sense enough to know that, whereas the antis -- I don't know if it's fear or ignorance. And 00:06:00it's like they say, "Ignorance is bliss." But it's not in this case.

GEORGE STONEY: Now --

HAYNES: And the people are so excited because we (telephone ringing) knew we were going to win. We'll just let that ring. Ask me what the -- some of the antis say about the union?

HELFAND: What do the antis say about the union?

HAYNES: Well, this one lady, in particular, was against the union and she went around the mill telling everybody that when they was going so hard about union dues and trying to make people not vote for it on that, she said, "You know what they do with those union dues? They just lay up in motels and party and drink." Ain't that something? She really did. She told that.

GEORGE STONEY: Well, now, one of the things I have noticed and I have remarked on it is that, through this whole campaign, it's been so peaceful. And I didn't even see a beer down there. Did you make a great effort to keep from having anything like that around?

HAYNES: No. I've nev-- I've never seen any alcoholic beverages at union meetings. Never. And that's the honest truth. I have never seen it. The 00:07:00people are decent. And people around here think that union people are low-class people, but they're not. They're decent people just like us. And I've never seen alcoholic beverages there. We had decent -- we had prayers at all our meetings. We had ministers at our meetings. and I just don't understand people thinking that they're low-class people.

JAMIE STONEY: I mean, I've been to a few (coughing in background; inaudible) where they're [leafleting?] and I've seen people drive by screaming, you know, seven and ten-letter words out of the cars.

HAYNES: Mm-hmm.

JAMIE STONEY: I didn't see any of that.

HAYNES: Uh-uh.

JAMIE STONEY: I mean, I've heard a lot of horn honking and a lot of people solidarity fist, but is that just through respect or is it just a better --

HAYNES: Most of the people around here are church-going people. And even the ones that don't go to church, they believe in God and Jesus Christ and all that. And they're fairly decent people. And the company used this for -- to 00:08:00try to make people vote against the union. They said the union would be violent. But when we were having our election and we were voting, we challenged this girl that's a fill-in supervisor and she's on the company's side. And she called one of the union supports that challenged her a bitch. Now, who's violent? The company or the union? And I'm -- I told h-- I told my supervisor about her doing it. I told the labor board about her saying that and he told me she -- he couldn't do nothing about it. But what if they had gotten in a fight? What would he have done? But that was the company being violent instead of the -- and this boy -- we were standing on at the gate handing out leaflets and this boy came by that was against the union. And he had on a "just say no" shirt. And I said, "Just say yes." And he let out a four-letter word and said, "Just say no." Now, who's violent the company or the union?

HELFAND: Now, before, you were telling-- we were talking about fear. And you 00:09:00said, "Judy, I don't know why they're afraid."

HAYNES: I don't.

HELFAND: And I said, "Well, let's think about it." Why are they frightened, [Cynthia?]?

HAYNES: I don't know why the people are afraid, unless they are afraid of a strike. And, plus, it's been handed down from generation to generation. Anything bad people know about a union, they pass it on to their descendants. It goes down -- like my grandpa, "You'll never do it." Now, he -- he -- he can't pass it onto me. I take after his brother, I guess. (laughs)

GEORGE STONEY: How long ago was it that you discovered your uncle was a union organizer?

HAYNES: Just this past June or July.

GEORGE STONEY: Just tell me -- tell that again to me.

HAYNES: OK. When I found out my uncle was a union organizer was when we started this campaign. And Judy came to see me and she wanted to talk to my people about Cannon mill textile workers and unions and all that. And I was calling my 00:10:00aunt and talking to her about it. And she said, "You know Uncle Red was a union organizer?" I said, "No, I didn't." And that tickled me to death. I said, "It must be running in my veins, then."

GEORGE STONEY: Why do you think that it was hidden from you all this time.

HAYNES: I don't know why they never did tell me about it. They told me about him killing a sheriff or a policeman. And somebody sneaked him off to Russia for seven years. And when he came back, I don't know what he did, but I never did know him to work or anything. I don't know what he did. But, see, he was -- I wasn't born 'til '42. And that all happened in that late twenties and early thirties, so I don't really know anything about it, but what they tell me. And my daddy and his sister, they were young kids and they don't remember all that much. But I'm going to try to find out what happened to him after he came back from Russia.

HELFAND: Now, before you tell me my -- you know, you tell -- can you stop it for a sec? (break in video) What is real important for us to know -- the generations and Cannon Mills in there, too.

HAYNES: OK.

HELFAND: Go.

HAYNES: My -- all my ancestors, just about, worked for Cannon Mill on my father's and my mother's side. My mother and her sister worked at Danville at Dan River. My mother's sister was nine and she went to work and learned to spin. Back then, y'all are gonna -- this is gonna get you. Back then, when you learned a job, you didn't get paid. And say if it hasn't been for unions, we'd still be doing that. And my mother went in the mill to learn to spin and her sister taught her and they would get in fights in the mill 'cause they were just kids. And my -- like I said -- my grandpa worked at Dan River, too. And he moved to Kannapolis. I don't know what year it was, but he moved here from Danville when my daddy was six years old. So, that must have been in 1927. And he moved here and went to work at Plant Four. He could walk to work. And that's where they had the strike. And that's where my grandpa crossed 00:12:00the picket line and his brother was trying to get him to join the union, but they didn't hate each other because of that. You don't have to hate people they don't believe what you believe. People around here's got the wrong idea. Everybody's got a right to their own belief. But I wish they'd believe in a union. (laughter)

HELFAND: Now, Cynthia, I think you -- it's been -- could you (coughing) stop it for a sec? There are some people that have been afraid to go in with a t-shirt on. Some people have been afraid to go in with a button. Some people have been afraid to talk to you. And you've gone on TV. Now everybody knows what you believe. Some people were afraid to sign because someone would know --

HAYNES: Yeah.

HELFAND: -- that they [want it?]. They'll say, "The only -- no one's gonna know how I vote. I'm going to do it in private." Can you talk about everybody being afraid to come out public and, then, why you've chosen to do that. And why are you not afraid?

HAYNES: I know why. I'll tell you why. It's 'cause --

HELFAND: But talk about them. Or talk about yourself and counter it to that 00:13:00because coming out in public is really a big deal.

HAYNES: OK. Now, the peop-- a lot of the people I work with are afraid to let anybody know how they feel, but I -- the reason I come out in public, mainly, is to show people that they don't have to be afraid 'cause, see, they watch me. Like yesterday, when we went in, they just knew I'd -- they'd have my pink slip ready. But I didn't get fired and everybody f-- just calmed down and everything really got boring yesterday. And I can't understand fear. I'm glad I can't. I'm not afraid of anything really. And the people that are afraid. I just wish they could see that you don't have to be afraid. But they are afraid they'll get fired when the un-- if the union don't go in, they're afraid they'll get fired. They -- if it would go in, the people that are afraid to speak out -- I feel like, then, they wouldn't be afraid 00:14:00anymore. But they just wait to see if it will go on and say they're not sure. And they feel like, if it don't go in -- I even had people to tell me, "If this union don't go in, you better have me a job somewhere." And I try to tell 'em that, "If you stand up for the union that the government protects you. Not only the union stands behind you, the government protects you." But they just -- they don't believe it or something.

GEORGE STONEY: What about all this (coughing) -- the union keeps having the -- the company keeps saying that, "If they union gets in, they gonna have to close down and move away."

HAYNES: Every time we have a union election, the company will tell they gonna close down. And [Bruce Riner?] told us last time -- and Bruce is a very intelligent man. He told us the last time that before a company can put that many people out of work, they've gotta open up their boots and show the government that they can't operate anymore. But anything the union tells some 00:15:00people, they just don't believe it. They think the union just sits around making up stories. And they won't check into it to find out if it's true. They're afraid to come to meetings because they're afraid we'll be on television and their supervisor will see 'em. That's -- we would have more people than we do at meetings if it weren't for that.

GEORGE STONEY: Now, do you still get -- did you ever get any satisfaction out of your job working (coughing) in the factories?

HAYNES: Yeah. I like my job. I really do -- I've been working 21 years and I like my job and I like my supervisors. But I know the company could do better for us. I told my supervisor that the first day. I said, "Diana, I'm for the union." I said, "It ain't nothing between me and you or me and [Don?]" -- which is over her. I said, "It's this company. They could do better by us." And she said, "That's exactly right." But she would not 00:16:00admit, now, that she said that. I know she wouldn't. But she said that.

HELFAND: Do you want to talk about the media little more -- having been on television with the media has been for -- how the other day you tried to counter what they were looking for?

HAYNES: Well, I've been on television so much now I'm getting tired of it. (laughter) I was on Good Morning America about the pension fund. But the union got us all this publicity. If they hadn't, those people wouldn't have got their pension fund back. David Murdock was shamed into coming here. But he's -- he's gonna get his money back 'cause it was in the paper. And like I said, if Cannon Mills still owned Cannon that none of that would have been in the paper.

GEORGE STONEY: Now, you have -- you -- we've (coughing) met some other people the other day who said that, "You people have learned to use the media." Could you talk about that because that's pretty sig--

HAYNES: We've learned to use the media. In other words, they think the union's tricking 'em?

GEORGE STONEY: No, no. But they -- these are some people in the union who said that, "We've got that. We've got television now. We know what to do with it." Could you talk about that? 'Cause before it was just the reporters would come and you never had a hand on it.

HAYNES: Well, before, like I said -- before, we never have got the good coverage that we have this time. I don't know what the difference is this time. But always before, they would come and talk with us, but, when we saw it on TV it would -- it wouldn't be exactly like we wanted it. And, now, I don't know how we're doing it now, but they're giving us better coverage. I don't know if they realize that we are gonna unite or what, but they realize something. They're giving us better coverage.

HELFAND: I want to try again and have you think about the people that you've seen who have been afraid to do stuff and if they've been able to counter that 00:18:00fear and join you.

HAYNES: Yeah.

HELFAND: Think about that.

HAYNES: OK.

HELFAND: And really tell a c-- a strong story about that and how you're seeing people change, maybe.

HAYNES: Well, in '85 -- when we ran this campaign in '85, me and a few more people were the only ones that would stand up and let the company know that we were for the union. And they watched us through that whole campaign -- it was a year and half, I think. And they watched the whole time just waiting for us to get fired. Well, we didn't get fired then. We didn't get fired afterwards. In fact, we were treated better than the antis sometimes. And, so, when this campaign came and they had been cut and stretched out so bad, they realized that maybe they wouldn't get fired, so they joined us. We had -- like before in '85, we had this little, old room down at [Clover Leaf Plaza?]. And it was 00:19:00about a half as big as that room we got now. And we'd filled it up maybe twice in '85 -- about 25 to 30 people. And we've had as many as 1,000 at these meetings. So, you can see. So, maybe that's why the media's coming over to our side. They realize that we are gonna be strong and we are -- I feel like we're gonna win this election when it's all said and done. I feel like we'll be the winners.

HELFAND: Some people say textile workers -- southern textile workers can't organize, that they don't have a history of it. They can't do it. They're just a bunch of lintheads. They don't know from it. Well, Cynthia, talking to you, I don't believe that at all.

HAYNES: I don't believe it either.

HELFAND: Well, say -- say -- tell me that in a strong statement about southern textile workers.

HAYNES: I feel like the southern textile workers are gonna win, and we are gonna win this time for sure. When it's all said and done, we will come out on top. 00:20:00That's -- that's how I feel.

GEORGE STONEY: That's nice. OK? OK. I think that's it.

HAYNES: Good.

GEORGE STONEY: Very, very.

HELFAND: Do you -- Do you have anything else you want to say about your family or about --

HAYNES: I had something I was gonna say a while ago and now, I --

(break invideo)

HAYNES: -- OK.

HELFAND: Boy were you excited about your uncle.

HAYNES: I was. See, I just found --

HELFAND: Do you know what? Look, give me that newspaper --

HAYNES: I had just --

HELFAND: -- because I don't want you to play with it.

HAYNES: I had just found out that he was --

(break in video)

HELFAND: -- to you, [Bob?].

HAYNES: Huh? Uncle Red never did talk much. So, I remember him just sitting down in the floor, squatted down. He could sit like that for hours.

GEORGE STONEY: OK. Tell us about the modern version of the Flying Squadron coming here.

HAYNES: Yeah. I would like to tell you about the Fieldcrest workers that belonged to unions that came here to help us with our campaign. They came in on buses and it was such a beautiful sight. And [Don Rogers?] that works at Fieldale Towel Mill in Fieldale, Virginia --

HELFAND: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

HAYNES: No, he works at --

HELFAND: He works at Fieldcrest in [Columbus?], Virginia.

HAYNES: He works at Columbus Towel Mill.

GEORGE STONEY: OK. We'll start -- we'll start again.

HELFAND: OK. We'll get it started again. OK. And you know what?

HAYNES: How did you know that?

HELFAND: Because I know --

(break in audio)

HAYNES: OK. I would like to say something about the Fieldcrest workers that belonged to unions that came here to support us in our campaign from [Eden?], Fieldale Towel Mill, Columbus Towel Mill, Phenix City, Alabama. And Don Rogers from Columbus Towel Mill in Columbus, Georgia presented me with a thousand signatures of union workers that are in support of us. They -- all these people work for Fieldcrest and they belong to unions. So, why can't our people see that, if the union was so bad, all these people wouldn't belong to it!

HELFAND: How did -- how did Fieldale (inaudible)? How did Fieldale have all those folks come here? Describe it. Tell me what it was like to see all those people.

HAYNES: I can't describe how it felt. It was so exhilarating. It made me feel so good and made me want the union more 'cause I saw right then that the union -- union people stick together. They stand by each other. And the 00:22:00company tried to tell us that the only reason they came here was so that, if their jobs got closed down, they would bump us off our job if they belong-- if -- to the union. They told us that. I forgot about that. They sure did. They passed that out in a leaflet, said, "The reason these people came here was so y'all would join the union and, if they lost their job, they would come here and bump you off your job." Why would them people move from other states to come here and bump us off of a job?

GEORGE STONEY: OK.

HELFAND: Can you talk about -- since we're gonna go with you tonight -- I don't -- you don't necessarily have to talk about the pajama party stuff, but (laughter) -- but if you could talk about, you know, working with your -- you know -- working with your organizers and how your core group and how you worked in your own plant and if you'd (break in video) [provide?] that.

HAYNES: OK.

HELFAND: Um, but you know what? I'm gonna ask. [Wonder if you could?] get that? (inaudible) Yeah.

HAYNES: We got -- we've got about five people that really stand strong in our plant and we support each other. And when we're in the plant, we can't afford to get mad because they already say that union people and union pushers are obnoxious and violent and they'll started fusses and fights. And, so, we have to be cool in the plant. So, at night, we meet at the motel of our organizer and we let off steam and we tell everybody what's happened that day and we argue and fuss and complain. And that lets us let off steam where we can't do it in the plant. We have to be cool. And --

GEORGE STONEY: Now, how do you feel when -- when people talk about "lintheads"?

HAYNES: Lintheads? That makes me mad. Because there ain't nobody around here a linthead. They might get lint in their hair. And textile workers contribute a lot to the whole world. If it weren't for textiles workers, where would we 00:24:00get sheets and towels? And I think it's a shame to call somebody a linthead.

GEORGE STONEY: OK.

HAYNES: If I've ever been called one, it was behind my back. I don't know it.

HELFAND: Have you seen anyone in your immediate area, you know, really transform themselves? They were frightened at the beginning of this and, then, slowly they changed and they came through? Can you talk about what it feels like to see your fellow workers go through that kind of transformation?

HAYNES: You don't know good it feels to see somebody that was afraid and, then, they turned completely around they're one of the main "pushers" -- as they call us. They call us obnoxious pushers, the company does. And you might not believe this, but I was once afraid. When we had our campaign in '74. I didn't say nothing. I went and voted yes. If somebody asked me if I was for the union, I would say, "Yes." But, as for as stand out, I 00:25:00wouldn't do it. And, then, I went to a meeting in '85. And after I went the one meeting, I was hooked. And, then, I was changed forever.

HELFAND: Why?

HAYNES: I don't know. Being with all those people and everybody's standing together it just does somethin' to you. And if the Cannon workers would come to one union meeting, they would be OK from then on. That's how I feel about it.

GEORGE STONEY: (whispers) We have to (inaudible)

HELFAND: Thank you, Cynthia. We'll see you tonight.

HAYNES: OK. We'll see --

(break in video)

JAMIE STONEY: This is 30 seconds of the worst of the lawnmower. (lawnmower in background)

__: (whispers) We're OK?

JAMIE STONEY: And this is 30 seconds of the best of the lawnmower. (lawnmower in background)

(break in video)

GEORGE STONEY: -- how you got to work in the cotton mill, when, and under what circumstances, now? That's when the camera is rolling. But what I want you to do, in each case, is to put my question in your answer. Let me demonstrate when I need -- mean. Jamie? Jamie.

JAMIE STONEY: Yeah, [sir?]?

GEORGE STONEY: What'd you have for breakfast this morning?

JAMIE STONEY: Grits.

GEORGE STONEY: That's the wrong way.

KAY: Mm-hmm.

BLANCHE WILLIS: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE STONEY: Jamie, what'd you have for breakfast this morning?

JAMIE STONEY: This morning, we went to [Shawmy's?] and I had grits, for breakfast.

GEORGE STONEY: OK. Chris? What'd you have for dinner last night?

CHRIS: Pizza.

GEORGE STONEY: That's the wrong way.

KAY: Mm-hmm.

WILLIS: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE STONEY: Chris, what'd you have for dinner last night?

CHRIS: Uh, for dinner yesterday I had pizza at Pizza Hut.

GEORGE STONEY: You see, so --

WILLIS: Make a sentence.

GEORGE STONEY: -- that we could cut out the question and people would know what you're talkin' about.

WILLIS: OK.

GEORGE STONEY: Like, another thing, uh, Chris, what do you know about [Mr. Cannon?]

CHRIS: Nothing.

GEORGE STONEY: That's the wrong way. Chris, what do you know about Mr. Cannon?

CHRIS: I don't really know a whole bunch about Mr. Cannon.

GEORGE STONEY: You see?

WILLIS: Make a sentence with those words?

GEORGE STONEY: That's right. Yeah. And also --

WILLIS: Explain something.

GEORGE STONEY: -- instead of saying, "he," you said, "Mr. Cannon," --

WILLIS: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE STONEY: -- or whatever it is.

WILLIS: OK.

GEORGE STONEY: OK.