Bill Irby Interview 2

GEORGE STONEY: Don't have any glitches on the top.

BILL IRBY: All right.

GEORGE STONEY: You've got a VCR, haven't you, at home?

IRBY: Yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: It's great a great.

IRBY: That's the truth, yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: OK, now I want you to go back to talking about Mr. Cannon and the deputizing those people with the guns -- because we had trucks going by. Could you talk about that again?

IRBY: I may -- that was a man who is on the payroll up there -- on the payroll --

GEORGE STONEY: That's all right. When you do -- say not he, but Mr. Cannon.

IRBY: Mr. Cannon, yeah, had put them on the payroll up there -- already on the payroll, so he just told them what to do and they did that.

GEORGE STONEY: Sorry, we don't know what you're talking about because you say -- they told him what to do -- but we don't know the -- let's start again.

IRBY: Well, Mr. Cannon, he got people to go ahead and he got the guns and everything, put the guards on top of the pl -- on top of the mill -- all around, and had guards surrounding the mill -- went to protect the people that was going 00:01:00in -- going to work. So that maybe might need it sometime. I don't think we ever did need it, so... More -- they parade right down through the town, that was it.

GEORGE STONEY: Did you see that parade?

IRBY: Yeah, I saw -- I saw -- I saw part of them, yessir, I didn't see all of them because -- like I told you, I was in -- wasn't in there when they were having such an uproar about it -- I had the picture.

GEORGE STONEY: Can you tell us what those people from -- where they came from --

IRBY: I don't know which mill from in Mooresville.

GEORGE STONEY: But just say that they came from the mills in Mooresville.

IRBY: Off the mills in Mooresville.

GEORGE STONEY: Were they on foot, were they in cars? Just what?

IRBY: They were on foot -- and I had to -- (inaudible).

GEORGE STONEY: How did they travel from Mooresville?

IRBY: I really don't know.

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm. Did they have flags? Did they make noise? Did they sing?

IRBY: They sang, beat drums, and everything else.

GEORGE STONEY: OK. Now, let's start again and just tell the whole thing as though I were just looking at that parade, OK?

IRBY: Yeah, I was -- I was looking at the parade as they come right straight through town. On it -- they said it going to be there, so I looked at it -- it's coming right through town and, and they -- they was beating the drums and the cans and everything else. But you see -- they didn't get off the road, they stayed right on the right. They kept going.

GEORGE STONEY: Did they have signs?

IRBY: Yeah, they all had si-- yeah, they had signs, yeah. (inaudible) "Vote Union."

JUDITH HELFAND: We can tell the story, start with people with signs who (inaudible) union (inaudible).

GEORGE STONEY: OK. OK. OK let's -- let's just try that end because we want it all in about, you know, two or three sentences.

IRBY: Yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: Just like you're lo-- watching this parade come down, just say, "These people from Mooresville, these textile..."

IRBY: People from Moorseville...

GEORGE STONEY: People from Mooresville. And then they had the signs, and there was singing -- or whatever they were doing -- walking down -- but they didn't get off the road --

IRBY: No.

GEORGE STONEY: -- and all that. So let's try it again, OK?

IRBY: Th-- those people were from Mooresville, and they parade and come right down through the main street. They di-- they didn't get off the street, they stayed right on the road. Parade right down beating drums, and cans, and everything else -- ran right straight through town beating those drums and everything -- cans in their hand.

GEORGE STONEY: What did the signs say?

IRBY: Oh, it just said something like said, "Vote Union." That's all -- about the unions, all it was. "Join the union." Something like that.

GEORGE STONEY: Did you know what unions were at that time?

IRBY: No, I didn't know what unions were. We didn't have no union. All I did -- everyone in Kannapolis was afraid of unions on account of what happened in '21. Which I told you what happened in '21 -- they sort of had that union and they -- they -- they were union legal people, I don't guess. You 00:04:00know, they got money and left -- we got nothing. (laughter)

GEORGE STONEY: OK, good. OK. I wonder if you could -- could tell us about -- way back yonder -- about there being blacks in the mills or the fact that there weren't any blacks in the mills and when they came in, OK?

IRBY: I -- I -- I -- I wasn't working in the mill when they came in. But years ago, only mill they had (inaudible) had a few colored people in that one that carried the -- carried the bags. Carried the bags to the offices like, and another -- and another cleaned the bathrooms. And some of the overseers of making colored people go down and clean the house up. (laughter) It didn't cost them nothing.

GEORGE STONEY: Where did they live?

IRBY: The colored people? Oh, they had a little section right in Kannapolis outside of -- about half a mile from there -- right up -- behind -- behind where the high school is now was it.

GEORGE STONEY: What did that -- what'd they call that section?

IRBY: [Tancap?] Tancap. (laughter) Tancap. We called it Tancap. And those -- see one of them -- they was Cen-- Centerview over there, some of them go to Centerview and -- that was Tancap too, they called it Tancap. I don't know where they got that name.

GEORGE STONEY: Now, what were -- what were the conditions like when you first went in the mill? How did you feel? Was it hot?

IRBY: Yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: Was it rough?

IRBY: Yeah, it was awful hot in there and I slipped and raise a window and then some -- other woman was "Close, that window! I'll freeze to death in here." She had two or three pair of hose on and her coat on. It still be hot in there. Yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: Was the work hard?

IRBY: Yeah they worked hard, all of them worked hard. Except boss man -- boss man didn't have to work hard, they had it made.

GEORGE STONEY: What about you?

IRBY: I worked hard. I cut towels and that was the hardest -- that's the hardest job we gets in the mill. I cut towels. That's what I went when I worked in the Mill. And then the sample boy -- our sample boy -- I liked that job too. But I never got a promotion. One of the (inaudible) he says (inaudible) he always took the boss man to the beach and everything like that, and they opened up a job up there to give him the boss man's job, and give him the boss man's job -- he come to me and say, "Bill, I don't know a thing about this blame thing." He says, "You have to tell me something about it." And so I said, "I'll tell you all I know about this." I was a tattle or something. And so I did, and so -- but uh -- I never got a promotion. I got -- then his -- then his boss man, he ran out and he -- he gives one of 00:07:00his relatives my job and he give my job -- that's when I quit. He was going to put me back to cutting towels and (inaudible). I said, now don't you -- you're not going to average me? He said, "No, I ain't going to average you, you're going to get -- you're going to buy the piece. He said, "You're an expensive cutter." Said, "It would cost Cannon Mills $100 to teach another fella to cut tiles." And took me off my job and gave one of (inaudible) the same name. It was my job. But then I didn't work for three days and I quit, and he said, "Well, you'll be back." That's '51 -- fortunately I haven't been back yet. But Mr. Cannon was always good to me -- he always was. He tell me about this road going to be built over here, and oh, we're selling these houses, and I (inaudible) the sale, everything like that. I didn't have money to buy stuff, and I haven't bought -- and when I'd go to buy anything, people said I'd be crazy to buy. But I -- but I'd go ahead and buy it, first little thing of doing. You went and did. (laughter) I had a 00:08:00hard time borrowing money too.

GEORGE STONEY: Why have you been so successful since you left the mills?

IRBY: I've saved my money all the time. Saved my money, worked day and nights -- some nights three or four days in a row. I worked day and night. And I got my father to help me work -- my father -- my father didn't have no job. And then -- so that's one reason why -- and I opened up a restaurant and put him to work. My brothers had to -- my brothers were an awful -- younger brothers, they had a lot of -- lot of friends, and they brought them in there. And we had so much -- we had tremendous business in the café. We had tremendous business in the café. I built another building, so... I just kept building -- I just kept building one after another and I thought, "Yeah." And so I -- very, been very fortunate -- and the Lord's been good to me, and I (inaudible). The churches has too. First Baptist Church -- the was the only church, only Baptist 00:09:00church in Kannapolis when I start, Baptist church.

GEORGE STONEY: How does it feel to have a -- have a shopping center named after you?

IRBY: Oh, feels ni-- I feel good about everything. Don't anybody (inaudible). Everybody says that -- there's a lady up here the other day, she says I was very fortunate. She brought a letter up here the other day, I be laying over there and I put on her -- and I looked it -- hey -- let her that thing right there. (inaudible) Pull that out of there.

HELFAND: Here you do it.

IRBY: It was my birthday last Thursday.

GEORGE STONEY: Hold it up so we can see it. Oh, that's nice -- where did that come from?

IRBY: This lady, she brought it to me for birthday card.

GEORGE STONEY: What birthday is that for you?

IRBY: Oh, was 15th, last Thursday. August 15--

GEORGE STONEY: And you are?

IRBY: I was 77 years old last Thursday, August 15th.

GEORGE STONEY: OK, thank you. OK, we'll take that. One -- one other thing that you were talking about a little while ago, and that is about why people remember some things and stick in their minds and others they don't. What do you think about -- why do you think -- what makes things special for people, why do they remember?

IRBY: Well you remember everything better when you're old than you do when you're young. Thing happened a year ago when you're young, (inaudible) when you was old -- you just don't remember (inaudible). They don't remember the 00:11:00new things, they remember the old things. And the few friends you have left now is a rare fortune to me.

GEORGE STONEY: What's your favorite memory?

IRBY: Which favorite?

GEORGE STONEY: What's your favorite memory?

IRBY: Well -- I'm fortunate I'm living and I'm fortunate -- you see -- I was very injured when I played football at Kannapolis and we didn't have enough -- we didn't have enough material that we -- we wear. You know, we didn't have -- we didn't have straps going on our football helmet. (inaudible) But I recovered too then -- I'm thanking the lord there. And I -- just busted a blood vessel right there, and that -- doctor give (inaudible) -- 00:12:00Doctor Hart. I'm fortunate for that.

GEORGE STONEY: If you had your life to live over again in Kannapolis -- would you have stayed here? Would you have done the same things you did before?

IRBY: I guess I would've. (inaudible) people would've. But I -- I -- I guess I should've -- yeah -- would. But I thought someday -- I've often thought someday Kannapolis is going to pick up. I thought every day because we've had so many chances of putting things here -- [Springs?] Mill want to build here -- and they couldn't get the water. And Borden Ice Cream's gonna wanna build -- but it can't work. And a Westinghouse was going to build somewhere -- there's always an emerging amount of people -- but we got none of it, we don't get anything.

GEORGE STONEY: Why?

IRBY: I don't know. But right now -- right now -- we're in better shape now because we got 8,000 people. 8,000 people lives in Salisbury -- they're 00:13:00working in Charlotte. We got 6,000 people in Kannapolis that's working in Charlotte -- and that's -- that's speaks -- that makes 14,000 people goes back to (inaudible) every day to work at Charlotte. And it going to be still more -- Charlotte just keeps growing. And we're not too far from Charlotte, you see. And a lot of people from Charlotte -- they come up here to buy things, to do things because they think they won't be crowded.

GEORGE STONEY: Now, you told me before that you thought Mr. Cannon and -- had something to do with keeping those industries out. The --

IRBY: Yeah, oh yeah. I know --

GEORGE STONEY: Tell us -- tell us about that. And mention Mr. Cannon.

IRBY: Well he -- well Mr. Cannon (inaudible). They don't want -- they don't want other industries here. Competition. That's just the way business is -- they don't -- nobody want competition cause it -- you have to make it for yourself, you've got to make the money for yourself. And he wants to -- and you say -- at the first they built the -- the first time they built the -- 00:14:00(inaudible) -- Eckerd's though -- Eckerd's drug store. [Cooks?] was in there, A&P was in there now. And they opened that up and Mr. Cannon wouldn't give them no water. It's (inaudible) they had to put artisan wells there, they wouldn't let -- the police would come down and direct traffic. He had to go ahead and -- they had to -- he had to get his own policemen from another town to come down and direct traffic for him, (inaudible) when he had to open. But when K Mart started to come here, Mr. Cannon gave in to everything.

GEORGE STONEY: Why the difference?

IRBY: Oh, Mr. Cannon was the biggest buyer. He didn't have no -- he didn't have no other say so.

GEORGE STONEY: So Mr. Cannon pretty well determined what happened here?

IRBY: Oh yeah, yeah, oh -- oh, by far. Oh yeah, by far. He well he owned it -- he owned it all.

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah, just say -- say all that and say Mr. Cannon, OK?

IRBY: Mr. Cannon owned it all, you see. And it was sold in the -- more it was -- less it was worth. It was three times what it sold for -- or more than he sold it for, it was sold. But he didn't have nobody to run it. But it was worth lots more. I told several people, and I said, "We should all get up. Make him $100,000 a piece and buy it." And he said, he said -- "Then who would you get to run it?" And that's what killed my point. Who would you get to run it? Unless I'd get Joe Ryan out to the run it -- and I wouldn't -- I'd get Joe Ryan out to run it, but I ain't going to hire somebody. See Mr. Cannon, what he did -- like -- they were -- they were young. If you two -- you two were young -- they'd send you off to college. You going to get your college education, you'd come back, and you'd be the boss man. You'd be the big shot. You see what I'm ta-- he put one over the welding shop down there, one over the plumbing shop, one over the welding shop -- then he got 00:16:00another -- and -- then he get another to work in the big office. And little Joe Ryan now was one of the smartest men I've ever seen -- he was one that went off to college. He one of the smartest men there was -- he helped everybody.

GEORGE STONEY: Now, were those men --

IRBY: But he would move -- he didn't move to Concord. He stayed in Kannapolis.

GEORGE STONEY: Now were those men you mentioned -- were they originally out of the mill village?

IRBY: Originally? Yes, yes sir.

GEORGE STONEY: Just say that.

IRBY: They originally out of the mill village because -- Mr. [Inez?] thought (inaudible) was a preacher, a Lutheran preacher.

GEORGE STONEY: Just -- say again that Mr. -- we want to get this all kind of tight now.

IRBY: Yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: Say that Mr. Cannon selected people -- likely people -- out of the mill village, young fellows, send them to college and made them department head, OK?

IRBY: Yeah. Yeah, that's correct.

GEORGE STONEY: Start, "Mr. Cannon."

IRBY: Mr. -- Mr. Cannon sent several of them co-- to college, paid their way to college. They'd come back and he'd give them a big job -- kind of like a big boss man job, super -- job. Like super (inaudible) over the buildings. And so that's the way it was. He sent them to --

GEORGE STONEY: Did you know any of those young men?

IRBY: Oh yeah. One of my best friend was -- got -- got a job, yes sir. One of my best friends.

GEORGE STONEY: How did he make that selection of those young men?

IRBY: Well he'd do it -- they were smart. It -- it --it -- they knew them at the -- at the churches. They knew they were smart -- they were smart too. He'd pick out the smartest one out of -- out of schools, you see. High school. And he didn't have money to go to college, but --

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah, start now. Say Mr. Cannon.

IRBY: Mr. Cannon -- and he didn't have money to go to college, so he going to help him.

GEORGE STONEY: I'm sorry, let's start again. Say, "Mr. Cannon went to the high schools and the churches and picked out the smartest ones." OK? Mr. Cannon.

IRBY: Well, Mr. Cannon -- that's -- he always picked out the real nice and smart ones, he noticed them real good ones, and good (inaudible) and sent them to college, yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: I'm sorry, I want you to say that he went to the village, and he went to the high schools, and he went to the churches.

IRBY: Yeah, yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: And we need all that together, OK?

IRBY: Oh, he went to the churches --

GEORGE STONEY: Sorry, Mr. Cannon.

IRBY: Mr. Cannon went to the churches, the colleges -- not the colleges -- the churches all around town here.

GEORGE STONEY: Let's start again, sorry.

IRBY: What did you say the three --

GEORGE STONEY: Mr. Cannon went to the village, he went to the high schools, and he went to the churches --

IRBY: Yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: All of it.

IRBY: Mr. Cannon went to the churches, the coll-- high school and all of that.

GEORGE STONEY: Let's start again.

IRBY: Now I better --

GEORGE STONEY: OK. Mr. -- Mr. Cannon.

IRBY: Mr. Cannon -- Mr. Cannon he always -- checked the -- he checked the schools first, he found good recommendation from the schools. He found good -- 00:19:00what was in the colleges -- in the -- and the -- churches. In the churches. He got good educated people there, and the smart people -- and he knew that.

GEORGE STONEY: I'm sorry, we -- let's just -- hold it just a moment.

(break in video)

IRBY: He first to the schools --

GEORGE STONEY: Mr. Cannon.

IRBY: Mr. Cannon -- he checked the schools, checked the churches -- the churches. He checked the locations around here -- the homes -- checked their homes. Everything like -- then -- he had a (inaudible) in the mills have check them, and boys that were really good at education. Then he sent them off to college and they come and be boss man. He got eight or ten coming in from, uh, from wa-- state college, state college. He got a bunch from state college come in as boss man. And so all good men too, he got, too.

GEORGE STONEY: They were all people you knew?

IRBY: Yeah. All -- I didn't know all the guys at the state college, but I knew all around here. Yeah. I Knew -- I knew Joe Ryan now well, I knew Joe Ryan, all his brothers, and his daddy, his sister -- everybody.

GEORGE STONEY: When these fellows came back and became the bosses, was there any difference between you and them?

IRBY: No, no. No.

GEORGE STONEY: Talk about that.

IRBY: No, there wasn't no difference between me and them. No, they was all good to me. They're all good to me.

GEORGE STONEY: Well, now, we've heard -- I was just reading the local paper --

IRBY: Go ahead.

GEORGE STONEY: I was reading the local paper this morning. It said if the union comes in, there's going to be a split in this town -- people against people. Talk about that.

IRBY: I -- I don't really think of being a split between no people like that because we're not -- we don't have too many people that works in this mill is from Kannapolis. The people -- they work at other towns. Kannapolis people, I told you they're working in Charlotte -- they go on to work in Charlotte. They're getting bigger jobs -- [my friends?] that's where they are. And the 00:21:00stores is not making the money because the people are not here buying the money -- they go into Charlotte. We need another thing here.

GEORGE STONEY: What do you think would happen if this place goes union?

IRBY: I don't think it -- I know one thing that would happen, but I can't tell you -- you would tell everybody because it -- I know one thing, the best thing could happen. I know (inaudible). The best thing that would happen, and it should happen.

GEORGE STONEY: Why?

IRBY: I don't want to say that. I would not say that, but you'd know it too. Because it would -- well, I can say without telling about it -- well, it would make the people more alike. Put them out -- the unions would put them -- more ali-- equality, equality. There may be more equality. And they wouldn't 00:22:00like Tom, Dick, and Harry come in and boss to everything -- tell them what to do. Unions wouldn't let them do that -- make things more equal.

GEORGE STONEY: Now, we've heard from some people that they're afraid of the union because they say it's going to increase the position of the blacks.

IRBY: It'll lower it. Don't put that in --

GEORGE STONEY: OK.

IRBY: (inaudible) It'll lower it. Unions are (inaudible) colored people. I told you to put equality on it.

GEORGE STONEY: Mm-hmm. Now they -- they're pretty strong for the union, I noticed.

IRBY: They are. They're going to vote -- I read it -- they vote now, today and tomorrow. And I -- I just a lot people don't want to spend their dime for nothing. A lot of people against it. But the reason they are against is because, well, I'll tell you what happened years ago. And then -- I don't 00:23:00know. There's a lot of people just don't want to spend a time for nothing. A lot of people think they'll raise the charges. They think a lot of the people that's in the union is loafers. I try. They -- they -- they got the wrong opinion of it. But they aren't realizing all places got unions.

GEORGE STONEY: Now, Mr. Freeman told me something. When he first brought me over here, he said, "This is a man who gave us a place to meet when nobody else would grant to us."

IRBY: Yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: Tell us about that and tell us why you did it.

IRBY: Well, why I did it -- I had the money and the building, and I had the building there so -- I talked to -- I talked to one official. Man, I know, he said, "Well, Bill," he says, "you can't hold it back on (inaudible)." Says he don't get there, they're going to get it somebody else -- and so you need the money more than anybody, as much as anybody else -- and that's what 00:24:00this official told me. (inaudible) And so -- but I had not rent to him somewhere he got it somewhere -- I don't know where he got it, though, but he -- I rent it to him.

GEORGE STONEY: He told me he couldn't get anyplace anywhere else if it hadn't been for you.

IRBY: No. I wasn't -- well, I tell you, I -- I tell you, I sold a lot of towels. I sold a lot of Cannon towels in that building. But you see, they put a -- put the out of town people going around town -- change highway. When they changed the highway, that left me out -- left me out. For the people -- the Kannapolis people don't need no towels. You don't -- you can't sell towels to those people. They don't need them. But to out of town people -- they want to buy just for -- they're (inaudible) buying and buy the case, pay me for it -- just have to send it to some place in Florida. That's where people buy them, yeah, and I just go up to the (inaudible) and yeah. Yeah, you 00:25:00used to couldn't buy towels from Cannon, nobody could. You had to buy from a broker. A lot of people don't know where -- but you had to buy towels from a broker. There you go.

HELFAND: (inaudible)

IRBY: They knew what happened in 1920 -- they knew what happened then and they never get over that.

HEFLAND: Could you -- you know, could you start again and say, "In 1921 this is what happened and then every time they tried to bring the union in it didn't work." And tell me why it didn't work and what happened.

IRBY: Why it didn't work -- there's a crooked bunch gone in and took it over like they was the, you know, union -- and they wasn't a real union, they were just two fellows -- we don't know who they were. They just come in an started themselves and made up their money -- they got the money, they left. They didn't -- they had nothing to give us.

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HELAND: In 1921 -- this happened. Tell me the same story, but preface it with, 00:26:00"In 1921..." And then go on to say all the other times when the union came in what happened.

IRBY: I won't -- it might be '22.

HELFAND: OK, the '20s.

IRBY: In the first of the '20s, they had a union here -- they didn't have no union here -- they had a group come in here and they got them to strike. They went on a strike, and the strike for approximately three or four months. And the people didn't have anything -- and the people -- going to get -- get everything. But they didn't get anything. Had a big meeting there, and had a big -- big meal there, and out in the field out there, and on the table, and everything like that. And when a -- first thing I knew, there was men had a meeting here, had the un-- the one the union -- the one that called the strike here and everything, they left town. And the Kannapolis people got nothing. The people had to go back to go to work the mill. And they want back to work, I think, less money than they was making -- cause I wasn't old enough to work in 00:27:00the mill, and I was just seven years old. Or eight.

HELFAND: And what happened years later? Like in '34, later on?

IRBY: In '34? Well, in '34 they come down here wanting to dr-- they wanting to a draw a union, and they wanting to draw -- but the Kannapolis people still wouldn't have nothing to do with it because they still thinking about -- they're still thinking about that '21. 1920. That's they're still thinking about that. I don't know whether they think about it now or not, but they still -- they was still thinking about it. That's the reason.

HELFAND: Thank you.

GEORGE STONEY: That's beautiful.

IRBY: I don't think I -- tell you what -- see here, when you tell -- when you tell something, you got to practice what you're going to tell. I don't -- I'm just telling –

GEORGE STONEY: I know…

JAMIE STONEY: This is room tone for the previous interview.