Woodrow Wright Interview 1

 (beep)

CREW: (inaudible)

GEORGE STONEY: OK, then. All right. I'm gonna show you some low scenes, then.

(film clip playing in background)

WOODROW WRIGHT: I can't recognize that plant now. It's a part-build plant 'cause it's only two stories -- Firestone and two stories, which was the Loray at that time. But that is the Parkdale Plant on up the street from the [Firestone?].

STONEY: Now, what does he mean when he said that, "We're gonna take the weight off the rollers."

WRIGHT: When they take the weight off the roller of a spinning frame or a roping frame?

STONEY: Don't know.

WRIGHT: All right. If you're using a roping frame, those rollers has to be gauged to the certain weight. If they don't, they'll make slubs in the yarn and they don't want that. They want the yarn to be as smooth as they can produce it. In other words, if the roller is too tight coming across the bottom roller, which is steel rollers running diagonal across each other, and that -- that toe is coming through those rollers. And if you set those rollers too heavy, you're slubbing the yarn. You're putting lumps in it. They don't want that. So, you have to take weight off or add weight on -- whichever way. They test the yarn, actually, comes through to see what breaking strength in has. And, oh, if they get the roller set too heavy, they slubbing the yarn -- 00:02:00making lumps in it. And that's why the weight has to be taken off of the roller to keep it from making lumps in the yarn. Those are rollers are tightened down too tight, it will mess the yarn up. If they get the right weight on the rollers, then they get a better braided yarn. In other words, it's more --

STONEY: Would it have damaged the machinery if they hadn't taken the weight off the rollers?

WRIGHT: Only the rollers. It would flatten the rollers if they ran them too tight. It would flatten the rubber cots on the top roller, which is rubber or, now, some of them's using synthetic plastic. But the time I worked in the plants -- and the plants all used rubber rollers for the top roller. The bottom two rollers were steel, but you could flatten -- that's the water tank in Gastonia. And -- but --

STONEY: Just watch this now.

WRIGHT: If they didn't use the right weight on the rollers, they could slub the yarn, which the customers didn't want yarn with slubbers in it. That's still the Parkdale Plant in Gastonia and Franklin. (long pause) Parkdale has increased its plant ownership from about eight plants to eighteen plants now. They bought six plants in Belmont in the last two years. So, Parkdale is the biggest company in Gaston County at this time, which has changed from a Burlington-operated county to Gaston County. Parkdale is the biggest manufacturer now of textiles in Gaston County.

STONEY: Tell me if you recognize this.

(film clip playing in background)

WRIGHT: That particular scene looks like the scene on [Wilton?] Boulevard coming out of Gastonia. That does look like the Wilton Boulevard on -- before it runs into the Wilkes -- New Franklin. And that looks like scenes on the Franklin Boulevard.

STONEY: Let me go back on this because I think this is at Loray Mill. Look at that building -- that building in the front. See what you think. Nope, nope, nope. I'm sorry. Go ahead. Where do you think this is?

WRIGHT: I think that particular place there is a residential home on that 00:05:00street. And that particular building there is a church steeple.

STONEY: Do you recognize this?

WRIGHT: This is the end of the parade that took place up there at that particular time. See that's when the crowd begin to break up and stand in groups and talk it over and there's where they were listening to one of the speakers at the end. That was before the parade broke there. That particular scene is whenever the speaker was still making a lot of noise.

STONEY: What did they say? Did you -- one of the speakers -- do you remember anything?

WRIGHT: When the speaker -- he was talking particular about the conditions in the plant and, you know, he was telling the people to stick together and they wouldn't be oppressed so on their job. And, mostly, he was -- or the speaker 00:06:00that I heard was hollering about -- the day that he was speaking when I was up in Gastonia -- he was wanting the union to come in 'cause he -- the management at that time had begun to press for help and that's what brought the union representatives into this area, but employees begin to complain about the condition that the plant owners was putting -- they was putting -- they was persecuting employees more than they had been in the past. In other words, that -- most of the time when there were plant owners and plant managers presses the help, it invites a union in. And, at that time, the south didn't know too much about unions and was against it. Personally, they was against unions. But 00:07:00they was needing help. So, they invited the union to come in and try to organize some of the local mills, which stirred up a lot of problems and a lot of trouble. A few people lost their lives over, uh, inviting the union in. But these -- but the unions were invited to Gastonia by different people. And, at the time that they came to Gastonia, didn't brew nothing, but trouble because they started killings up there at the plant. And Beale got involved and he was communist and that turned a lot of people ag--

STONEY: That was in '29.

WRIGHT: Yeah.

STONEY: We're talking about '34.

WRIGHT: Before -- yeah. Whenever the union was invited in, it would view the conditions in the plant and the people got dissatisfied because the conditions begin to get harder. The mill man at that time was reaching out for more profit and he was pressing his employees to the point that they started hollering. You 00:08:00know, the help can only take so much. But the management and the owners, they was wanting a bigger profit over their yarn and they -- their particular working conditions invited the unions in because people got to hollering for some kind of relief because they felt like they had -- doing an honest days work for the wages they was paying. But the mill man wanted more. He began to stretch out. The stretch out system started happening along in the 30's and some of the plants never did stretch out, but most of them did. They cut out help, loaded the next man up with his job. And it began to be where you was running three jobs for the price of one. And the more that happened, the more they was invited the unions to the south which, at that time, the union -- the south 00:09:00didn't know anything about unions. They didn't know whether to accept the union or be against it. They was only a few of the plants in Gaston County that did accept it because they was scared of the union. They said, "Oh, if the unions gets in, they'll fire half of us. They'll stretch out more than the owners do." But people didn't really know what a union stood for. I think a union stands, now, for more to help employees than it does the owners. In other words, a union will stand up for an employee and try to get him better working conditions, a better pay scale, and, so, the unions is not looked on now like it was in the 30's.

STONEY: I'm gonna -- (overlapping dialogue; inaudible)

WRIGHT: It was only last year another union got in Gaston County at Freightliner. They elected a union at a vote and they voted them in. Freightliner has on been over in Mount Holly for a couple of three years.

STONEY: I'm gonna show you some more footage here.

(film clip playing in background)

WRIGHT: That's still from scenes at Firestone -- scenes at Firestone Mill during that labor dispute. That was from the dispute between owners and the labor. It boiled down to being just a moral war between the labor and management. And when I say management, I mean owners. They had some terrible times up there at Parkdale and Firestone during the '34. In other words, they got down to killing. There was a few lost their lives over the work and -- over the strike situation and over the people congregating in big crowds like that. It caused a lot of friction 'cause some of the employees was for the union, some of them was against it. And, naturally, that caused a lot of tension and a lot of fights between the ones that was for the union and the ones that was 00:11:00against it.

STONEY: Now, did that happen in the mill village between --

WRIGHT: That happened in front of the mill -- in front of the plant itself -- not particular out in the village, but at the front of the mill. That's where the labor dispute originated mostly is in front of the plant itself. In other words, they used the mill parking lots of congregate and fight and fuss over the unions. In other words, they was divided. The people was divided. They didn't know whether they wanted unions or whether they was against it. Some would vote for it, some would vote against it.

STONEY: Now, we have been told that, when you had union and non-union people in -- on the same street -- that they created a lot of trouble between families.

WRIGHT: Well, what I saw happen at Belmont -- now, this is not at Parkdale. In Belmont, it got so bad between the people that was for it and the people against 00:12:00it. On the sidewalk, in the streets, of Belmont, they threw rocks at the people -- they called them scabs if they went on in the plant and worked during the strike. And person that disregarded the picket line -- if you was a picket and I wanted to work and I went on in there and done my job and you out there in front of the plant trying to keep people out and I ignored you and went on it, that caused hard feelings between what they call -- now, this was the people that was on the picket lines -- was against the employees that was inside working, which was, you know, the minority was working. And the majority was in the streets fighting 'cause they felt like that they'd never get better working conditions if they didn't picket against that particular plant. And 00:13:00they call every employee that worked during that time a scab. That was what they named the people that did -- ignored the picket line.

STONEY: Now, was you ever a member of the union?

WRIGHT: No, sir.

STONEY: Could you just say, "I was never a member" --

WRIGHT: I was never a member of the union 'cause when I started employment with the textiles, the union never was mentioned again at the plant I worked in -- never mentioned again after that strike. In other words, I never had an opportunity to join a union because after I grew into manhood and older and a lot of years experience in the textile plant, I would have joined the union. That was after they changed superintendent because the new superintendents stretched out on us, they put more work on us for the same pay. And I would have, later, joined a union, but at the time that union was trying to organize 00:14:00the south, I didn't never have an opportunity to join. I was never approached with a plea to join and a plea not to. I didn't have an opportunity to ever belong to a union.

STONEY: Now, was there -- do you recall any propaganda against the unions?

WRIGHT: Sure I do.

STONEY: Tell us about that.

WRIGHT: The propaganda that was going mostly was, if a union got elected and got control of the plant, that the help -- the employees theirselves -- wouldn't have any privileges at all. They would have to work eight hours without a break and they was just all kind of lies told on the union -- that they would take all their privileges away from 'em, make 'em stay at the machines eight hours, they wouldn't get to take 15 minute or 10 minute breaks or whatever the company originally allowed. There was propaganda going around that the union didn't allow nothing, you know, that they was so hard-balled, that they made you work eight hours because they felt like you was going eight-hours pay. And 00:15:00you didn't get breaks according to the propaganda, but that wasn't the way it was.

STONEY: What about dues? What about union dues?

WRIGHT: Well, at the time that they was trying to organize Gaston County, the union dues wasn't all that high. But, you know, the better paying job you got, the higher your union dues are. But, at the time they was organizing the local plants, the union dues, I believe, was around six or seven dollars. But, later, I heard they got up as high as 15 dollars and 16 dollars a week. But they claim, to start off with, the union -- you know, the union to join the union was small considering what they are now if you belong to a union.

STONEY: OK. (inaudible)

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STONEY: Where is -- sorry -- where -- cut it just a moment, Jamie. Where is the --

(break in video)

STONEY: Uh, we -- we've heard from some of the textile workers that they came and organized the union and, then, the guys who organized ran off with the dues and they never heard any more about it. Do you recall hearing that?

WRIGHT: Well, I've heard that some of the office workers did take some of the union dues and skip. But the rumors that was printed in our local paper said they caught 'em, you know, and they had to replace as much of the union money as they could. But some of them went to prison because they called it embezzling or defrauding the company and the union. And there was a few local people went to prison over trying to steal union funds. But they was some of 00:17:00them that completely never -- never repaid the union for money they taken out of the office, you know, where the money was -- you know, where they accumulated the money when they deducted it from your pay roll. But there was a lot of people fled Gaston County to keep from getting prosecuted from the fraud and embezzling the union.

STONEY: Now, when people who are in the union and they went on strike and they were living in mill houses, what happened to them?

WRIGHT: Well, if the union didn't win the elections, after they took an active part in trying to get a union in -- at that particular time, they didn't have laws to prevent it. And a lot of times they would lose their jobs by owners. In other words, the owners would give management orders to replace that 00:18:00particular employee if they took too active a part in the union. And that's why a lot of employees was scared to join a union. They was scared the plant owner would fire 'em or have 'em fired. And a lot of people wouldn't join for that simple reason. And that made it hard for a union to get in these plants. The south has never accepted a union wholeheartedly. Even today, as many plants as the textile industry has in the south, 95% of them will not accept a union. I'd say in Gastonia, North Carolina there's only 5% of the plants organized and have -- work under union rules. You take in Belmont alone, there's 28 textile plants. And there's only two of them union. That's a small percentage in Belmont.

STONEY: I'm gonna show you a little more of this footage. It's all silent stuff. See if you recognize anything. If you do, just turn and tell me about it.

WRIGHT: Well, that congregation of employees and people is still at the Loray plant in Gastonia. In other words, that particular group of people are still milling around in front of the Parkdale Plant on Franklin. And that is one of the water tanks at one of the Parkdale Plants out at the end of the plants. You can see 'em when you ride Franklin Boulevard. You can see all the water tanks and most of them as their names engraved in big letters on the water tanks so you'll know what particular company that owns that particular plant because there's so many plants in Gastonia that every one of them tries to put their names on the water tanks so that visitors and travelers can recognize who owns each individual plant.

STONEY: Now, watch this again and see if you can recognize anybody. I'll stop -- tell me if you want me to stop any time.

WRIGHT: I still don't recognize the people because they was older people and I was only a young boy. So, people at -- the age those people was in that parade, I just don't recognize 'cause I was a kid. I wasn't interested in that parade. I was watching those troops around that plant because I didn't know when they was gonna use those guns. So, I was curious 'cause I was just -- I was young boy. But I didn't recognize any of the people who was taking active part in the parade. I wish I could help you some more identifying some of the 00:21:00paraders, but I -- you know, it's like I said, I -- I just knowed it was a crowd.

JUDITH HELFAND: Can you turn the sound on.

STONEY: No. It's --

WRIGHT: Back to the Parkdale.

STONEY: Do you remember the big Labor Day meetings here.

WRIGHT: Yes, sir.

STONEY: That's a big Labor -- Labor Day right there. There's the Parkdale Mill again.

WRIGHT: Yeah. And, at the time that they was having those textile building, those crowds would get huge.

STONEY: Yeah.

WRIGHT: In other words, they -- people would go from everywhere to see what was taking place 'cause most people realized it was dangerous because there could 00:22:00always be trouble. Because there was two factions: the pro and the cons -- the people for the union and the people against the union and they was all milling together in those congregation.

STONEY: This is -- I think this is [New England?]. Yeah. That's New England. So, I'm gonna just race ahead.

HELFAND: Woody, did they have -- they had Labor Day -- they had Labor Day celebrations each year?

WRIGHT: Yeah.

HELFAND: They did observe Labor Day? (sneezing)

WRIGHT: Pharr Yarns put in on bigger than most of the companies. They -- they have a big, uh, fire display and they have a dinner where, you know, they -- if you buy tickets for about a quarter, well, you can attend their big Labor Day celebration stuff. It goes on eight hours or ten hours a day when they have big Labor Day celebrations.

STONEY: Here's some more. Here's some more people. Yup. Sorry. I'm gonna go back on that. Sorry, Jamie. I didn't do a thing.

WRIGHT: Well, it -- most of the people who attend that parade are wearing cotton-made clothes. In other words, their shirts and their pants -- people couldn't afford dress clothes under the wages they were making back then. They had to wear cotton. Cotton was the cheapest material that was made and it was good material.

STONEY: But you notice these girls are all dressed up.

WRIGHT: You call it dressed up, but they was still got cotton garments. They would allow those men in overalls -- some of them pants and shirts. But 90% of the people couldn't afford a suit of clothes, not on cotton-mill wages. And there's where they begin to carry the signs, uh, you know, telling which side 00:24:00they was on and whether they was pro or con for the union. But later, after all the trouble died down, then the textile people got back together and began to get along better because they didn't hold the union against the pros or the cons. In other words, people began to live, then, again like a big family like they did before the union was ever invited to the south. And working conditions alone caused this -- the union to try to organize the southern textile plants.

STONEY: See if you recognize any of this. Now, that's back again to the ladies. So, we can do ahead on this.

WRIGHT: That was a Labor Day celebration was people was more happy. See how they throwing up their hands and waving and, you know, they wasn't -- of 00:25:00course, they still had police protection directing them to keep moving -- to keep 'em blocking the traffic. And the first was banging another. But that was, more or less, a Labor Day celebration there than it was a union meeting.

STONEY: Uh, cut it, Jamie. I want to get out to another.

(break in video)

WRIGHT: Now that the people got so involved -- well, they begin to holler they wanted peace between the workers and the union because the thing had got out of hand. A lot of --

STONEY: Can you start and say that again? Because we want to be close on you when you say that. So, just look at me and say that -- the same thing again?

WRIGHT: The textile workers and the union -- it got so ripped up. It got dangerous. So, the people got to hollering they wanted peace between the pros and the cons. In other words, the people that was for the union and the people 00:26:00that was against the union, they got to hollering they wanted peace between each faction because they was scared there would be a civilized war in Gastonia at that time because it done got dangerous up there. Because, you know, people were each other with their fist and using clubs and the people got so fed up with it over a period of weeks, they begin to holler peace and they went to printing it on big signs -- hold 'em up over their heads, "We want peace! We want peace!" Well, it was peace between the pros and the cons that wanted unions and didn't want unions. The people that rejected the union was the ones that hollered first that they wanted peace because they were getting the bad end of it. In other words, the cons on it were -- at that time, they was kind of like -- the pros was a little bit stronger at that particular point of 00:27:00textiles life than it was later, which they had to come back together and work as a family -- you know, work as one, big family whether they wanted to or not. The textile workers did get back to where they could get along with their fellow workers and not be mad at him 'cause he was pro-union or against the union and -- but I think the employees brought the trouble no theirself by the way they acted at the meetings. You know, because some of them just went wild. In other words, they didn't go for peace, they went for trouble. They went to stir up trouble to keep the union from establishing.

STONEY: Now, how did they stir up trouble? Did they have spies in the middle or did...

WRIGHT: Well, I think each side did. I think both sides tried to work undercover against the other side just to find out just exactly when the meetings was gonna be held and when they was gonna meet again. And they would 00:28:00try to disrupt those meetings to keep people afraid to attend -- attend they would get badly hurt. I think you got a point. I think both sides had people working undercover to try to disclose each side's future plans at the next meeting. And they would have their meetings every several days apart. You know, they would -- they would tell the crowd when the next meeting would be, but some of them would try to get inside information that they was gonna try to find out even where the second meeting was gonna be after this one that's coming up. And I think it was a lot of undercover stuff took place on both sides.

STONEY: Now, how did they --

WRIGHT: And they turned a lot of people against the union by the way that they acted up there in Gastonia. A lot of people got scared of the union for that simple reason.

STONEY: Now, could you tell me -- you were a young -- you were 15, 16 year-- or 17 years -- 16 years old.

WRIGHT: Right.

STONEY: You were reading the newspapers and you were calling, I think, on the radio about all this.

WRIGHT: Well, not too much the radio because, at that particular time, we didn't have a radio. We couldn't afford one. And we later got one, but we didn't have a radio. So, we had to go for the daily newspaper and, mostly, gossip of the public. You know, you could hear all kind of rumors concerning the unions and the textile employees and what this one said and what that one said. And it was just an unrestful time. You know, people was -- they was upset 'cause they didn't know what was coming next because the governor called out the troops against 'em and the people didn't know what was gonna happen, whether it was gonna be a shooting war or whether they was gonna have a 00:30:00job after it was all over. But they survived it -- the people.

STONEY: Did you have -- did you have family --