M1: What position do you play?
F1: Uh, my all-star third base with Kim.
M1: All right! All right! (clapping) Did any of the other ladies, uh, play?
Or... Do you remember going to, uh, games for women? Where women were playing?F1: I think I looked –
(break in video)
M2: Uh, Miss Polly Ann, you said Polly. Please come up (inaudible) and they
would come around and you said, had your name on it. And that was perfect. And they would give each kid -- everybody would stand up down the streets, you know.M1: Mm-hmm.
M2: And that [country?].
M1: And again, sponsored by the mill.
M2: By the mill. We'd -- we'd run on behind the truck. And we got about
half and then puked it. (laughter)M1: And now what would be in -- what would be in that package?
M2: All big fruit, all right. My mom would -- grapes and -- I mean-
CROWD: Candy. Yes.
M2: Grapes, nuts.
CROWD: Candy.
M1: Something to eat, generally.
M2: Always was a lolly.
M1: Was always.
M2: Fruit.
F2: They always a one dollar bill.
00:01:00M2: Yeah, I forgot about that.
M3: They -- they -- they used to, at one time, they started putting [silver?] in
all of them.(break in video)
M1: That's coal. OK.
F3: And way of candy and a book -- book mule and booze. A man that would come
through with his mule and his buggy. He'd have a time gettin' through because the boys would always want to swing on his buggy and ride. (laughter)M2: Everybody with a name had a ride to it then. (laughter) Learned out his
name, we'd call he'd learn how to run.M1: So, when he would come by your house, he would call out the name?
M2: Yeah -- yeah. He pumped us.
F3: He made us run.
M1: What's the name again?
M2: John Doyster
M1: John Doyster?
M2: Yeah.
F3: Yeah and he'd tell you he'd care if (inaudible) come. It's just like.
F4: He -- he got in the crowd and he couldn't get by, he'd say, "Come on.
Get at (inaudible?). (laughter)M1: Oh, that's wonderful.
F3: He had a horse that Mr. Doyster would say, "Get up, Anux. Stick, stack,
stealer. Pea-legged, tall-legged, four-logged, ain't none." (laughter) 00:02:00And the old horse would go, you know.M1: So -- and he would rhyme things like that, I assume, then, for each house?
M2: Yeah.
F2: He did.
M2: But he'd go claim the [rain?], raining for about four, five, six miles,
and if he found a letter come back to East Newnan, turn 'round, come back and bring it. He would. He'd bring it. Come in the mail room.F2: The mail.
M2: He'd come in the mill and bring the mail over up to you.
M1: Oh.
F2: He used to -- He used to coal in the winter time (break in video) and horse
is in places on this side. Um, so he had a one horse wagon and he would peddle them apples. And he'd holler, "Children, children, run as fast you can. Tell your mommy there's the apple man." (laughter)M2: That was a few years ago, I bet. Wasn't it? Just a few years ago, yeah.
M3: Get this way, these mailboxes wasn't to individual houses. And the end of
the street, there was a row of them. (laughter)M1: OK.
M3: Maybe 20 or something on the top, and he'd just come street to street.
But there wasn't each in the house. 00:03:00M1: So it wasn't through the streets, it was like down the main street? (break
in video) These were things which were written at the time we're talking about. These aren't just memories of what it was like and one of them is very close to us all. In fact, it was written by Etta Mae and the other Zimmermans' dad and was written in the 1930s. But I've got another one, and of course I'm reminded of what you said about Hogansville. 'Cause, of course, just up the road a few miles. Eighteen, I think you said. There's another, um, d -- mill area. And I have here a letter that was written in 1933. Now, of course, that was a big year. Uh, that was year, of course, of the depths of the Great Depression. Uh... When banks were closing. Uh, we talked already about the boll weevil. Uh, we talked about the mills being in trouble. 00:04:00Um... But a new sign of hope came on the scene in 1933. It had been Herbert Hoover, uh, and things kept getting worse and worse and worse throughout his term. But, beginning in 1933 a new president came into office. Franklin Roosevelt. And, of course, Roosevelt had a Georgia connection as you remember. Uh, he would come down and spend a lot of time down, uh, little bit South of here. As you all know, it's a Little White House, Warm Springs, Georgia. To, of course, deal with his paralysis that he had a few years before. But... (break in video)well, did any of you actually see him when he came through Newnan?CROWD: Yes, I – (break in video)
M3: Hope to river where we had no hope. He, to me, he was a great president
because he give us something to look forward to by telling us that fear was only fear itself. And what we had to do was look beyond that and at what could be done, what would be done, but could be done. And he gave us courage. He 00:05:00didn't do it to [sad?] but he just give us courage to look forward to that.ETTA MAE ZIMMERMAN: Brought us to work, come WPA.
CROWD: Yeah. Yeah WPA and CCC and, uh, football.
M1: Were any of you -- I guess this was male, although there were some WPA
workers that were female?F2: Yes, sir.
M1: But, all the C -- What?
M3: All the WPA, yes.
M1: WPA or CCC, where there any of -- any of the rest of you that...?
M2: Yes, I worked on WPA. And we have built some bridges here.
M1: Uh-huh.
M2: Yeah, you can.
M1: Uh-huh.
F2: (inaudible)
M1: Oh, really? One of the cars that he went around it?
F2: It Mr. Lindsey's the one that fixed it where he could drive by hand rather than-
M1: And that was in Hogansville?
F2: Hogansville.
M1: Oh my goodness, how wonderful!
M2: One thing I can remember so much about him, when he went in you know we was
working 11 hours a day. And, uh, he said he's going put us on eight hours a day. And he gon' raise wages up by $10 a week, which we weren't making that 00:06:00much. And, uh, some of the people around the milll said, "Newnan cotton mill, will shut down and close the door before they go on eight hours and paid 10 or 12 dollars a week." But they did.M1: They eventually did, yeah. I know you had your hand up.
M3: Some of the facilities that we constructed during the WPA days are still in
existence today in our State Park system scattered over the state. And other -- not only in this state, but in other states too.M1: That's true.
M3: Some of 'em are national parks. And I've the privilege to enjoy the
beauty of some of 'em and they're in good condition today.M1: That's right. They were built -- well built, right?
M3: Yes, they were.
M1: Very well built.
F2: Theater and [Hommein's Point?] was built by some of the WPA or whatever.
M1: Oh.
M3: You know, the State Department built those high school boys and I was one of
'em that helped build it. (laughter)F2: I'm not lying, he's a pretty boy. (laughter)
M3: Where's the -- where's the letter?
M1: Uh -- uh... Part of it. "This sad day finds me a-dropping you a line to
let you know of my troubles. And of many and many others treated the same way 00:07:00by the cotton mill in here. And some few months back, I have heard over the radio" -- and, of course, this was one of the fireside chats that I was talking about, -- "that anyone that is discharged or laid off from a job is to report this to you. And that is why I am dropping you this few lines, to report my troubles to you. Back before 1928, I've worked in the cotton mill at LaGrange, Georgia." So this person, even though they lived in Hogansville, actually worked in LaGrange. All right. Fourteen miles from where they are writing this. "My job being a spinner, as I know some of you worked in the spinning room. And they were well pleased with my work. But after 1928, the work got real bad. And af-- And only one or two days a week. And I could not 00:08:00make my board, so I gave up my job and went back home to my parents on the farm." And that is actually something that happened. Many families had moved into the mill villages and then moved back out of the mill villages when the work stopped. Uh, let me hasten on here. Um. "My Dear Mr. Roosevelt, if you can any way help us that had been treated like myself by the stark mills of Hogansville, Georgia, my home town, I will be thankful to you a thousand times. And I know many others will be also. I am sending you one of my payrolls." Uh, this is in also 1933. Uh, Miss -- Miss -- I guess this is Mr. Julian, the husband of the woman that's writing this letter. She -- He made $7 that week that she's sending him this -- um, this payroll slip that I have a copy right 00:09:00-- I r-- literally reading from a Xeroxed copy of the letter that is handwritten. Um, let me, uh, go on here, "Only for the last six weeks..." (break in video) Did this letter or anything else we talked about, um, and of course, what happened -- M-- Maybe it's time I bring this up explicitly. What happened a few months after this was that there was a big strike in the textile industry. Uh, a big textile strike and it was not just here in Newnan or in Hogansville, but it was all over the country. Um, and of course it caused some hard feelings. And I think that's the reality of it. But what, if any, memories do you have this period? And then I'd like to read to a little bit of, uh, Mr. Zimmerman's letter that was written just -- just after this strike. Are there any, uh, thoughts or memories or -- or reactions whatever that you have? Yes.M3: A lot people was laid off during that time because they participated in the
00:10:00union and was in the strikes. Companies laying 'em off and there never was allowed work no more. And they never did get any compensation or any -- just went down in the [drawer?]. But later on, then, you know they passed laws under direction of our President Roosevelt that they couldn't lay you off for things like that. But at that time they could --M1: That's right
M3: And did. And got by with it.
M1: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
M2: Uh, I don't know how many of you were there in 1934, but I was there
(laughter) and then this poor brother had a store up there. They still need filler flour and (inaudible) and one week to them sometimes gots so hard they -- he just got (inaudible) couldn't pay all the bills all the weeks. We -- we all had the checks one week and we went up again and he said he's going out cash. And would not sell to no credit. And we could take our check and pay fo' it and then pay the down 'fore we go. Where the old, you know, just we could (belong?). That's it, they could shop 'cause more people need (laughter) than I ever seen. 00:11:00M1: So, when the strike occurred, they no longer had credit at the store? Is
that right?M2: Now, he went off credit to-
M1: To cash.
M2: We was buying on credit one week to the other, you know. And you know and
he went, "Cash in." Right.M1: Uh-huh.
M4: I doubt, very seriously, 'les this is, uh, my brother that he was talking
'bout. I doubt very seriously at that time that Howard had enough money to finance without, you know, finance it out. (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) Additional sales without collecting 'cause he had children.M1: Sure. Sure. It was tough times! It was tough times, ridin' measure.
M3: Men just like it wasn't helpin'.
M4: This was a very smart business that we're talking 'bout.
M1: Sure.
M4: This wasn't no supermarket days.
M1: Sure. (laughter)
M3: These businessmen did a great deal of (inaudible) the other people with most
everyone in here can relate.M1: Sure. Sure.
M2: I doubt if he could -- I doubt if he could, uh, finance another, you know...
M1: For weeks or weeks or months or whatever, yeah.
M2: Yeah.
M1: OK. Other -- So, it was really sort of hand-to-mouth, um, operation anyways?
00:12:00M3: For a long time. I think of how it was then, we can tell you just like my
husband, but you want get you a good job, get out of the grocery store. (laughter) My husband used to say everybody ought to run well twelve months? (laughter) (overlapping dialogue; inaudible)M5: Asking the group a question which I think will mean a whole lot to you. How
many of you people were opposed to Roosevelt and what Roosevelt were doing at that particular time? Was Roosevelt on your side? Those people that said, please raise your hand. Roosevelt meant everything to all of the working class of people then as much as he does today, in our memories. He was -- he was a great president and he followed the man that let our country go into a severe depression, the worst that we have ever experienced.M4: I, uh, I thank God for him. Duncan, uh, described it more than anything
00:13:00else. Uh, it -- I think hope was what he gave us more than anything else.CROWD: Right.
M4: Right, just at that particular time. You needed something kinda look
forward and I think that's where he gave us more than anything.M1: Mm-hmm.
M5: And most of these memories we have today are bittersweet.
CROWD: Right.
M1: Yeah.
M5: Bitter at the time and they're sweet -- they're sweet to us now because
we survived and had a better life later on.M1: But -- Tell me a little about that bittersweet. I mean, h -- are you
talking the bitter part as sort of the tough times or...?M5: Sure.
M1: I mean?
M5: In the middle of depression's when you didn't have a job, you didn't
have, as some of the people stated a few minutes ago, had one day or two days or maybe three days a week. Some worked one week but didn't work another week. It was a, more or less, hand-to-mouth situation. It was not only our family, but the majority the thing --M1: Like most people, yeah.
M5: we said that are present here, today. And, uh, how when you said that was a
little a bit bitter and at the same time sweet, you did survive.M1: That's right.
00:14:00M5: And most of us survived to get better jobs later on, which all of us appreciated.
M1: Mm-hmm.
M5: Did that answer your question?
M1: Oh, I did -- I understand, I understand. (laughter) I just wanted -- I
understand as best I can. Yes?M6: I wonder if you're familiar with what President Roosevelt done in Pine
Mountain Valley, Georgia.M1: I've been there but, I mean, you may -- you probably know more about it
than I do.M6: This came along shortly after we're talking about now. And some of the
people that was, uh, thrown out as far union could turn -- couldn't get a job nowhere in the South, in a cotton mill, nowhere. They were blackballed.M1: Uh-huh.
M6: And a lot of them wound up in Pine Mountain Valley, Georgia. That was --
President Roosevelt had a great, uh, thought when he put out [a group of nots?] with rotation that looked down to this fertile valley and they went back and helped this valley. They started a project down there that had farms (break in video) to the working people that couldn't do anything else except go down there.M3: And let me add this to what he just said. That was a personal project, too.
That was not of the government. He done that out of his own money and set them 00:15:00farm re-cooks. So many acres in each and let people move in there and pay them as they could. And that was a great -- that was a great boost to this part of the country.M1: Mm-hmm.
F2: Assisting the [rebel ones?] that moved down there.
M1: Mm-hmm.
M6: Those people -- those people was not used to inside bathrooms or running
water. And he had bathrooms in these houses and he had running water in them. I -- I'm familiar with it because I had some people that went down there. And I was down there and saw what ha -- what was going on. I worked on a truck down there for six weeks one time at ten something hours. And we delivered, uh, eggs. We delivered chicken feed. We went to pick cotton out of the fields and carry it down to them. We would take the hay out of the field, put in the barn. We would go to the saw mill, get slabs, and bring 'em up for them to work. But they did have a good living down there after then. And some of 'em had better living they ever had. And they got a start in life right there at Pine Mountain Valley. 00:16:00M2: And they brought the chicken -- [break in video]
F2: Then he started bedrooms pinch. That was the first time any of 'em had,
from World War One that had drawn anything.M1: Mm-hmm.
F2: 'Cause that's where my brother got the money to bring us groceries with.
M3: That will do. (laughter)
M1: I have a problem with this -- (inaudible)
M2: Pull it needs a raise-up leader. And he said he used to go by there anytime
of night he wants to and get out a gallon of butter milk to have some. Have butter milk all he wanted and close the lid and go home. I said, you couldn't that now. Somebody kill you. (laughter) Yeah.F5: Maybe some people could tell -- [break in vdioe]
ETTA MAE ZIMMERMAN: One -- one thing, huh? He was a boy.
M1: Any -- (overlapping dialogue; inaudible)
ETTA MAE ZIMMERMAN: Arthur—- Arthur Rainwater
M4: Hey, hey!
F2: I mean, Willy damn!
M4: Etta May?
F3: He knew rain going do anything.
M4: Tell 'em 'bout how you -- [break]
00:17:00ETTA MAE ZIMMERMAN: The work, couldn't see too good. My papa's always a
caring, strong. He bought, um, Ford car when Leander went into service, First World War. And, um, about I don't guess he had it over six months. My mom would tell one day and she said, "Lord, goodness, tell me somebody swapped that car and bought a car without a top." (laughter) But he didn't run into [Sand Vid?], however, and he tore the top off. (laughter)M2: What I've done, her Daddy, is he -- he run an ice wagon on the village.
And w -- I was just small, then. We saw that ice wagon all over the village, gettin' ice, where'd cut off 25 pound, 50 pound, there'd be some chips. We eated that just like eatin' candy.M1: Oh, that's, yeah --
M3: We loved that!
M1: On a hot day, that could be wonderful!
ETTA MAE ZIMMERMAN: Well, that day, it wasn't just Poppa that was free with
00:18:00the children it was our Mother, too. We used to take powder sugar and run with us and she put out two cakes on the table. And we'd break up to crumbs. We'd be enough children that eat two cakes.JUDITH HELFAND: Mildred, you once told me that you was a real politician.
(break in video)F3: Bed time and reading's when Tom Watson's paper. (laughter)
M1: Yeah.
F3: And sometimes Mom and Daddy'd get tired of listening to it so they'd go
to bed right in the room where he was and he would never notice. (laughter) And, um, so our Tom he'd realize there's no one in the room but him, you know. He'd get up and go home. (laughter)M1: Now, that's a real newspaper reader!
ETTA MAE ZIMMERMAN: It is. Good Lord! It's tough, it's a depot one. You
know. But we didn't have too much entertainment but this. Sometimes to walked to Raymond. Sometimes we'd go down to Pearl Spring Lake. But all of 'em went to meet the Duke, now. That was a train. And there's a crowd of 00:19:00boys of ten. Plus one of (inaudible) going to Raymond, sat down to read his newspaper, just put it down to the side. A-reading his newspaper and the train come, let the people off, from Newnan. Like (Berlin?). One (king?) said, "Well, they blowed and then they stopped. And then people got up and they blowed again." But papa won't get up, put his newspaper in his pocket and smiled. I guess it's just about time for the train. (laughter)F2: He wore two pair of glasses 'cause he couldn't see very well and they
were had -- He had two screws hanging behind the back. They didn't have any sides on. And he had a string with the screws hanging behind his ears. (laughter)M4: I didn't know any of that, I asked for that once.
M1: Do you want to read the letter, or do you want us to listen to the video?
(break in video) 00:20:00M1: Then, we're gonna see a little video portion which will show some of the
things that actually occurred during this time. But Zimmerman writes, "I am writing a -- a few lines in order to tell you a few things. I am a poor man. I have worked all my life for a livelihood. I have always believed in the brotherhood of man. I was reared on a farm. My father was uneducated. He cannot read nor write, but was honest and a successful farmer. My mother was also uneducated. The first school I attended, she attended with me. They taught me that honesty was the best policy and I have endeavored to live honestly in the site of all men and, as much as possible, live peaceably with all men. I believe in the principles of Christianity, but I do not believe in every brand of religion or sect called Christianity. But, 'As ye would that 00:21:00men should do unto you, do ye even unto them,' the Golden Rule. I was never under arrest under my life until during the textile strike when Talmadge sent troops to Newnan and had men and women, including my daughter and myself, placed in a detention camp." And that was, of course, at Fort McPherson just south of Atlanta, which had been a World War One prisoner of war camp for German prisoners during the period. (break in video) "It's a shame to know that our mothers of this land are forced to go into the mills and other places of employment in order to help the husbands support their families." Does that sound familiar? (laughter) Um, (inaudible) today, that sounds very familiar. "Because the workers have never had a fair deal. Mothers are forced to leave their children, many times, um, um, with others who they would not. But they must help their husbands when they cannot get work in order to get by. I'm 00:22:00not so well educated by it, but I have common sense. Sincere-- Sincerely Yours, J.M. Zimmerman." All right. Fascinating insight into the conditions of that day and very reminiscent of some of the problems we deal with today. But, again, are there uh, w -- were any of you -- I guess, Etta Mae, you were in the internment camp, right?F3: Yes.
M1: I assume none of the rest of you were rounded up during that period?
LEONA PARHAM: I wasn't.
M1: You were also -- You were not there. I mean, you were here, obviously, but
your sister was the one -- your sister and your dad?ETTA MAE ZIMMERMAN: I've been worked for them before but I was not far -- I
was sick then.M1: You were sick that day or you would've been rounded up, too?
ETTA MAE ZIMMERMAN: Well, at first she's coming to the mail and once she got
her breakfast. Leona has to have her breakfast, but... (laughter) 00:23:00M1: Well, what are memories of that time -- of that -- I think it was about
Labor Day, September of 1934 if I remember correctly? What memories do people have of that period, uh...?ETTA MAE ZIMMERMAN: Well, now, they wasn't just people from Hogan.
M1: Oh, of course not.
ETTA MAE ZIMMERMAN: It was people from LaGrange.
M3: Both mills at Newnan.
ETTA MAE ZIMMERMAN: Yeah.
M4: Well, if you was in your hometown, they didn't care. But if it was a town
next door [and every other?] town, they would get ya.ETTA MAE ZIMMERMAN: I didn't know -- I didn't what the woman from Sargent
Georgia was there. But there's from Sargent and Hogansville and LaGrange and Newnan. I mean, the women.M1: Oh, OK. Of course, something that was happening at all this time, I'm
representing that either of you want to add... Ahead of what was happening at this time was that, uh, there was a primary for governor occurring at this time with Gene Talmadge, uh, Herman's dad running. Um, and he basically promised 00:24:00that he would not, uh -- uh, intervene in this strike. That, basically, he would let it occur and, uh, so he promised during that campaign leading up to the primary which he was running for governor, that he wouldn't do anything. Uh, Etta Mae, was it you that told me that--?ETTA MAE ZIMMERMAN: That he would not send out no troops.
M1: That -- that -- uh-
ETTA MAE ZIMMERMAN: He wouldn't try to break the strike.
M1: Uh, she had talked to a, uh, guardsman that had, uh, of course had rounded
her and her father up. And that-(break in the video)
ETTA MAE ZIMMERMAN: Got government shift. They called them out at two o'clock
in the morning. And this little fella wasn't nothin' but a teenage boy.M1: So --
ETTA MAE ZIMMERMAN: But they hadn't had anything to eat.
M3: He gave me a crew of two hours, though. (laughter) Two hours is how long he
gave his promise.ETTA MAE ZIMMERMAN: Yeah, two hours left he's licked.
M3: Yep.
00:25:00M1: So, obviously, he reversed course and did break up the strike -- uh -- uh
-- immediately after promising during the whole campaign that he would not do that.CROWD: Yes. Yes.
M1: Other memories or reactions that people have?
F3: My husband was with the strikers but he came home and they did not lock him
up 'cause he didn't go back that night. He heard about 'em going lock 'em up. But I have a picture of some of the men that was on the truck.M1: Oh.
F3: And, um... And of the men, that's all I know 'bout -- 'bout the
strike. (laughter)M1: Thoughts, or...? We do have a little -- I'm sorry. Someone start to say something?
00:26:00ETTA MAE ZIMMERMAN: We were still having union meetings. (laughter) You
didn't have union meetings in the homes. But, um, this elderly man we called 'em Grandpapa and Grandma Johnson told Mr. Bridget. One time, he said, "You know them (inaudible) are still having meetings? Union meetings, I tell ya." And he swore, I got to live (inaudible). They can do it if they want to. I shouldn't 've said that but that's what the -- preacher, what's his name?F2: Stanley.
F3: Huh?
F2: Name was Stanley.
F3: He hasn't left the [man too?].
M3: I'd like to --