Eula McGill Interview 2

 EULA MCGILL: -- (inaudible)

GEORGE STONEY: Then they do music, and they --

MCGILL: Oh, I've --

GEORGE STONEY: -- do, yeah.

JUDITH HELFAND: Yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: And the -- the food --

MCGILL: The (inaudible), she's --

HELFAND: We're ready, George.

JAMIE STONEY: We're rolling.

MCGILL: -- French descent.

GEORGE STONEY: OK, uh, Eula, tell us about your -- your father, and why he influenced you to be a union person.

MCGILL: Well, uh, I guess the -- the first time I had any, uh, conversation with my father about the union was, uh, during World War I, uh, my mother, who never worked outside the home, she liked any kind of public speaking, and she, uh, anytime anybody was going to speak -- [they used?] -- back then, they was going to have a speaker, and they'd pass the word around, there going to be a speaker up on the square, or the street. And yeah, Mama always went. And, uh, so this was a Labor Day celebration, they had a big Labor Day parade in Gadsden, 00:01:00and then they ended always at the end of Broad St, down by the river, and that's where they had the picnic, and the barbecue, and the speaking, down on the riverbank, under the trees. And, uh, I, uh, guess that's the first time I really paid attention to what they were talking about. So, we were eating supper that night, and Papa -- of course, he, -- he had to work Labor Day, the -- he worked at the steel plant then -- didn't celebrate Labor Day, only people that got off on Labor Day was people who had union, mainly craft unions, very few, uh, manufacturing plants were organized. So I asked my dad, I says, "What is a union? Papa, what is a union?" He says, "Well, it's an organization of workers, uh, banded together for their, uh, for the better of their working conditions. He said, just like any other group, he said, "Everything's organized just about except labor," said that "doctors 00:02:00have their Medical Association, and the, uh, merchants have their Merchants Association, the Chamber of Commerce," and he says, "that's what they're organized for," and he says "workers should do the same thing." He said, uh, "Always remember that, uh, your -- if you live in this world, and you don't try to make it a better place to live in," says, "you ain't living, you're just taking up space."

JAMIE STONEY: Let's stop for a minute -- OK, I got s--(break in audio)

GEORGE STONEY: -- you say your father.

MCGILL: He said, uh --

GEORGE STONEY: Oh, and you want to be looking at me, OK?

MCGILL: He said, uh, "if you live -- if you live in this world, don't try to make" --

GEORGE STONEY: No, start it at "my father said."

MCGILL: Oh, my father said -- at the whole beginning?

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah.

MCGILL: My father said that the union was a group of workers organized for the -- to be-- to better the working conditions. And he said, uh, "you know, uh, if you g-- go out to work, you're in business the same as he is. He's 00:03:00furnishing the place to work, and the money, but you're furnishing the labor. So you're in business too. And he said "as long as you live in this world, you're going to try to make it a better place to live, you're not living, you're just taking up space." And, uh, he said "just remember, as long as anybody in this world got more than you, try to get some of it." And he'd be a little facetious there, I think. But that impressed me, and I remembered that, uh, later on, when I become -- with the work in the -- in the factory.

GEORGE STONEY: So, just want to say, and you repeat this after me, so, union was not a dirty word in my house.

MCGILL: No, Papa told me that -- that then. He said "I carry a union card." He said "a carpenters' union card." He said "but don't tell anyone, because they don't recognize the union where I work, and I'd be fired." And I never told anyone that he, uh, was a member of the carpenters' union.

GEORGE STONEY: But, how did your mother feel about it?

MCGILL: Well, Mama, uh, at that particular time, I don't remember Mama saying anything about it, was later on, that's when I actually worked in a plant, and started to, uh, in union work, that Mama was very, uh, vocal. Of course, she had, uh, when the, uh, textile workers struck during w-- later on, during World War I, at the Dwight Mill there in Gadsden, our next door neighbor was, um, worked in there and was on strike, and we went up the picket line with her. In fact, that was the first picket line that I was ever on. I went up there, uh, and was on the picket, my mother had grew up there. But I never remember Mama saying anything one way or the other, I -- well, I guess she was in sympathy, because she was a good friend of Miss Tillery, understood that Mama never worked 00:05:00out anywhere, so she wouldn't -- had -- had no chance to be a member of the union herself.

GEORGE STONEY: I want you to go back now, and say that "the first time I went on a picket line, I was, uh, five -- six years old, and."

MCGILL: Eight.

GEORGE STONEY: OK, "the first time I was a picket line, I was eight years old, my Mama took me up there," and tell us how it felt, OK? Start again.

MCGILL: Well, uh, of course, uh, uh, Mama went up there like she's --

GEORGE STONEY: No, no, say "The first time I came on up here.

MCGILL: Oh, the first -- first -- the picket line I was ever on was when I was eight years old, and, uh, when it was my mother, who -- who was a friend of a lady who was on strike, and, uh -- well, they was just very, everybody was very, uh, friendly, and they felt a -- a brotherhood among them, they felt, uh, it was all about one for one, there's an old saying that it's one -- one -- one for 00:06:00all, and all for one.

GEORGE STONEY: OK, now, you've got to do that all over again.

MCGILL: I never f-- re-- I remember the first union hall I could remember being in, uh, and it's just came to my mind, a -- a -- there was a big, it impressed me, there was a big, uh, picture up there, with a bunch of bananas. And under there, it says "stick together, or we'll all get skinned."

GEORGE STONEY: Now, I want you to start again, and say, uh, "the first picket line I was on, it was in the year," and so forth.

MCGILL: I don't know what year it was.

GEORGE STONEY: Well, uh, say "during the -- World War I."

MCGILL: 8 years, '11, '12, '13, '14, '15, '16, '17, '18, '19 -- eight -- 1919.

JAMIE STONEY: (inaudible)

GEORGE STONEY: OK, yep. You say the reason is because we can only get a little bit more, I'm going to cut out my voice.

MCGILL: Yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: OK, again.

MCGILL: OK. The first picket line I was on was in -- uh, I was eight years old, during World War I in 1919. And I went to the picket line with my mother, who had a friend that was on strike at the Dwight Mills. And, uh, it impressed me 00:07:00very much there. Everybody seemed to be friendly, and all for one, and one for all.

GEORGE STONEY: Good.

MCGILL: Is that all right?

GEORGE STONEY: OK, sure, that's fine. OK, the next thing, uh, and you never lived in a mill village?

MCGILL: No.

GEORGE STONEY: So, uh, what was your -- since you never lived in a mill village, what was your impression of cotton mill workers? The reason I'm asking that is that in so many places, they called them "lintheads," they were separate from anybody else --

MCGILL: W-- well, I never -- I really never heard the word "textile worker" until I joined the union in 1933. All I'd ever heard was "cotton mill workers" and "lintheads." That was what people were called that worked in the cotton mill.

GEORGE STONEY: And what did people think of them?

MCGILL: Well, they, uh -- mostly, they worked in the cotton mill, and they thought they was kind of lower-class people, uneducated, and, uh, not as good 00:08:00as, uh, other people.

GEORGE STONEY: How did you feel?

MCGILL: At that time, I went to school. The children that sat around me in school, most of them came from textile families. And the -- I didn't feel that way, because I knew these children, and they was just like everybody else. I remember the boy -- a boy said, w-- Whitey Adams, we called him -- his father worked in the mill, and, uh, all of ev-- it was just about all everybody out, and in fact, the school I went to was called Dwight School, it was the only school in town, and it was -- we had to walk by the mill to go -- and through the village to go to the mill -- to the school. And, uh, I associated mainly 00:09:00with most of the -- uh, ch-- children in my class were from, uh, from textile families. And I lived, at one time, on the edge of the -- uh, of a street that's right on the edge of the, uh, of the mill village. And, uh, they kept nice places, and then, uh, there was one section of the mill village there in Dwight that, uh, was kind of a run-down, they kinda--people who didn't keep their house up, s -- you see, the -- the cotton mill villagers back then, they would -- the mill would tell you how many rooms you could have, and where you could live, and, they'd inspect your houses, if you didn't keep them up, they'd move you to this part of the -- of the village, they called it Bailey's Hill, up on Bailey's Hill, and it was pretty (laughs) -- the yards had no grass in them, no flowers, and -- and they didn't keep nice, like the -- it was a small section. But the rest of the village was kept up, it was the -- you -- 00:10:00your whole life was pretty well run by the -- by the mill.

GEORGE STONEY: OK, that's good. OK, now tell us about your first job in the mill, when it was, and how old were you, and what it was like?

MCGILL: Well, one summer, uh, school was, uh, lot of -- lot of part of school, I -- a friend of mine, who was in my class, Dorothy Stringer, she was an orphan, and she lived with her sister, or, it was a half-sister, and, uh, there was a big family of them, and I think Dorothy felt she should contribute something to the household. So she said to me, "Let's go out and get us a job in the cotton mill during summer." And we were just 14, I think Dorothy was a little older than me, she might have been 15, but I was only 14. And, uh, I said, "We can't get a job in the mill, we're not old enough, you have to be 16 to work in the mill." Well, she said, "If we tell them we're 17, we 00:11:00won't have to prove that we're -- if you tell them you're 16, you have to prove it, your school papers. But if you sell them you're 17, you don't have to prove it." And I don't imagine the mill was too, uh, careful about obeying the law, anyway. We got to work in there, and, uh, we were working 56 hours a week, uh, we stopped off a t noon on Saturdays, at 12:00 -- 11:30. And I made, uh, f-- oh, for six weeks, we -- they put you on the payroll when they thought you had trained sufficiently, that they would make money, so I -- and in my case, I worked six weeks without pay, and my first pay day, for the 56 hours, was three dollars and 19 cents, and they took a dime out to -- for ice. Now, we paid for ice to go in the cooler. I never had any ice water, but we paid a dime every week out of our salary for ice, year-round, and a dollar -- a penny out of 00:12:00every dollar for the company doctor. Whether you used him, or not, you paid for this company doctor. So, I had, uh, three dollars and a dime left out of my paycheck, and, uh, I remember, I went and bought me a first pair of silk stockings, and my silk stockings, full fashion stockings, cost me a dollar 95 cents out of that three dollars and ten cents that I drew. And, uh --

GEORGE STONEY: OK, yeah, sorry.

MCGILL: I think I just made four or five dollars a week that -- for the rest of the time, I don't remember whether I ever got any more than that or not during that vacation period.

GEORGE STONEY: That's beautiful. OK, let's stop just a moment, Jamie. A-- (break in audio)

HELFAND: This image of this little kid standing there, at that line, looking around, saying "wow, this is neat, I got to figure out what this is all about!"

MCGILL: Well, we had, uh -- during World War I, there's a -- everything, just about, uh, became organized in Gadsden, uh, are you on, or not?

JAMIE STONEY: Yeah, no, I'm good.

MCGILL: Um, it's -- there's a lot of pipe shops and smaller places --

GEORGE STONEY: Let's start during World War I.

MCGILL: I said, during World War I, there's a lot of unions, uh, in Gadsden, oh, already are organized and had contracts. There was an overall factory there, there was a hosiery mill that, uh, was working under contract with the union. And a lot of pipe shops, and small, uh, [cedar?] plants, small places. And there was a place there called Agricola Car Works, where they made, uh, freight cars for the railroad, and it was organized. And, out of that, they had 00:14:00a lot of union parades, and union rallies, and, uh -- and, as my mother always liked to go to them, and I -- I went with her. And, uh, I could remember, usually, they have all day, and it -- they had a big barbecue and picnic, and that night, they'd have a dance. And, uh, it -- it was very, uh, it was a time when -- when the whole town was union minded. Now, the big places, like the steel plant, and the textile mill did not-- did not make it. The mill, the textile mill organizing came out on strike, but they lost the strike. But they didn't make any headway in the, uh, Gulf States Steel at the time. Uh, of course, later on, this Depression came along, and a lot of things closed down, and it -- and it went down for a while. And, uh -- but Gadsden was, uh, was 00:15:00always -- the people in Gadsden was pretty much union sympathizers.

GEORGE STONEY: That's very important for us to get. OK, now tell us about coming to Birmingham, and working out at this -- getting this other m-- mill where you are.

MCGILL: Well, my father, uh, got discharged from the -- from the, uh, plant there in a layoff. And he took a job with the -- they were building, uh, dams, up and down the Coosa River, Alabama Power Company, and he got a job, uh, there. And, uh, my mother went with him, and, uh, oh, I guess that -- that Dorothy did me a favor in getting me in the mill, because later on, when I really needed a job, I don't imagine I could have gotten it if I hadn't had that experience. And, uh, about 19 and 27, uh, after I was -- a brief marriage, and a child, I, uh, went back to work in the Dwight Mill, and stayed with my 00:16:00aunt, who lived there, and worked in the mill, for about a year. And then, um, we came to Birmingham, the -- the jobs that my father was working on, they were completed. And my sister was living here in Birmingham, so we came here, and, uh, Papa (break in audio) -- had never been nowhere.

HELFAND: (laughs)

MCGILL: You didn't go "oh, no" -- (break in audio) -- go somewhere. They used to run railroad excurs-- excursions, they called them. And we went to Chattanooga, I remember, we were going to Chattanooga, and -- but whenever you come to Atlanta, for some reason, none of it. But we did go quite often to Chattanooga, and go up on Lookout Mountain. I was in Chattanooga before I was ever in Birmingham.

GEORGE STONEY: Great, tell us about coming to Birmingham.

MCGILL: Well, uh, I -- I stayed with my sister, and my mother and father, uh, um, moved out on the farm with some friends of theirs, and later, uh, Papa bought a place, he come -- sell, sold it for his taxes, he bought, uh, 80 acres, and built a little house on it, up there, on the mountain. And they lived up there most of the time, until my father got, uh, sick, and had to move back to Birmingham, because -- to be near a doctor, because he was isolated up there on that mountain. But I stayed in Birmingham with my sister, who worked in the mill. And, uh, I worked, uh, I was there when, uh, I borrowed a dollar and half to pay my poll tax to vote for Roosevelt, and I turned 21 in 1932. And, uh, I couldn't wait to vote. I had always been -- I'd really been politically active before I was ever ab-- able to vote. My, uh, sixth grade schoolteacher 00:18:00got me interested in politics, and also, made a Democrat out of me. She was a great lover of Woodrow Wilson. And, uh, I became very active, uh, in-- interested in politics, when I was, uh, in -- in -- in grammar school. So, uh, I couldn't wait until I got old enough to vote, and I had to borrow a dollar and a half. Now, I don't know if they ever paid them back or not, I bought it from a government worker, and he paid -- he ga-- loaned me the dollar and a half, I don't know if I ever paid him back, or not. But then I -- I was registered to vote. And, uh, that was the -- one of the highlights, when I registered to vote, and shortly after that, I joined the union, and as I have asked and told people, I said "I was working in the cotton mill, 60 hours a week, for five dollars and ten cents a week, when I voted for Roosevelt." And 00:19:00I joined the Democratic Party and the labor union, and I ain't went nowhere but up since.

GEORGE STONEY: (laughs) Now, uh, tell us about, uh, riding the streetcar into the factory --

GEORGE STONEY: -- and why they were suspicious of you, and -- and -- and, uh, put both feet on the ground so we -- you won't swivel.

MCGILL: Oh. Well, I -- I lived, uh, uh, my, uh, sister's husband, uh, they lived in their old home place that his father had built years before, and, uh, in Ensley Highlands, which is the western part of Jefferson County. And, of course, the mill's located in the eastern part of town, uh, and you had to ride the streetcar into town, and transfer to another streetcar to get to that section of town, then you had to walk about four blocks there to the -- where the streetcar track turned to go back to town. And, I'd have to leave home at 00:20:00about four o'clock in the afternoon, uh, to get to work. I liked to get to work -- I never really liked to run in at the last minute. I liked to get there a little while, and change clothes, and talk, and -- before I had to go to work. So, I left the house at -- at four o'clock, and rode the streetcar to town, transferred, by the time I go to the plant, I'd say it was, uh, around 5:30. And, uh, I went to work at six o'clock, and worked until six the next morning. Now, it took me longer the next morning to get back, because the streetcars that early didn't run as close together, so I wouldn't get home until about eight o'clock from work. It took me a little longer to get home in the morning, because the streetcar, that time of day, the streetcars didn't run as regular, as close together, they'd run about 30 minutes apart. If you missed one, you'd have to wait 30 minutes before the other one came, to make your connection. And I remember, uh, I bought a book of tickets, and it cost me, um, 00:21:00nine cents each way, seven cents, and two cents for the transfer, 18 cents a day. And, uh, you can imagine what I had left out of five dollars and ten cents. I was working. But, later on, uh, the boss had some frames up, and I -- I wasn't a good, I'll just admit, I wasn't a good spinner. In fact, I've always thought I was not, uh, I was too tall, and I'd beg, I'd just plead with him, to g-- let me work in some other section, but it -- you just got hired in on the job, they didn't think about suitability to a job, and how it would help the company to have people better suited for a job. And I didn't know that argument then, either. But I knew that I just was not cut out to be a spinner. Well, I had a good friend that helped me. She did all my cleaning for me. She was good, she was fast, and good, and she took a liking to me, she was 00:22:00an older woman, and she helped me. But, Joe comes on down, said he had some frames to break, couldn't keep anybody on, he said "I'll tell you what I'll do, I'll give you two dollars a week more if you go up there and run them?]. I guess it was bad (laughs), I couldn't do nothing to -- didn't hurt him, so, I took him up, so, he gave me two dollars a week, uh, more, to -- to run those frames. The first week, I didn't get my two dollars, so I went and asked him, "Uh, where's my two dollars?" And he's, "What are you talking about?" I said, "You promised me if I'd change, and run those frames up there, you'd give me two dollars more a week." "Well, I don't know how I'm going to do it." I said, "Well, you promised it." So, he did, he -- he -- he gave me the two dollars a week. I had no way of knowing, thinking back now, I had no way of knowing he might have paid somebody else in there more than me, I don't know, no one knew what other-- others made. We, uh, weren't supposed to tell back then what we made. I remember when we started organizing the union, I used that two dollars. I had a bet with the 00:23:00boss, he came down one day, he was talking to me after we started organizing, he said, "I understand you're on this organizing committee," and I said, "Yes." And he said, uh, "Well, why?" He said, "Haven't I always been good to you?" And I said, "Yeah, but I'll tell you something, Joe, my daddy always told me if I want a drink of water, go to the head of the spring." And I said, "I've got to get some way to get over your head, and get to the boss over you." And he just, uh, turned, and walked off. But he'd always come back down, and talk with me. One day, he said, "Well, how you getting along?" "I'm doing fine." He said, "You see that girl over there? Three or four alleys away, and, uh, so I'll bet you didn't want to get her to join the union." I said, "Well, that's a bet." Well, he began to go over there, and butter her up, and he'd take her Coke Cola, he was doing everything he could, you know, to butter up to her. And we'd get in the 00:24:00-- in the toilet, but, I'd talk to her about joining the union, and I couldn't get nowhere with her. So, one day, we was sitting in there on a box at quitting time, changing shoes, and I said, "Are you ever going to join the union?" "Oh, they've been good to me," she said. "I can't afford to join the union, they have been so good to me, they gave me a job when I needed it. I said, "Well, they've been better to me than they have to you." And I said, uh, "I'm not only join the union, I'm trying my best to get a union established here," and I said -- she said, "Why, how -- what do you mean, they've been better?" I said , "I make more money than you do." She said, "I don't believe it." I said, "If I can prove that I make more money than you do, would you join?" And she said, "Yes, because you can't prove it." And they paid us in money, and in an envelope, and I 00:25:00pulled out of my apron pocket, I pulled my envelope out, and showed it to her, where I was making seven dollars and ten cents, and she was making five dollars, ten cents. And she signed the union card. So I went out there and told Joe, I said, "OK, old buddy, pay off." I said "I've got you, I've got" -- he said "how did you do it?" I said, "You was doing playing dirty, you was doing everything you could, and I used everything, and I finally had to use that extra two dollars you gave me." (laughs) But he was a fair, and I didn't -- don't think he actually tried to fight the union. I -- I never known of h-- of him just mistreating anybody for union activity. Now, he showed partiality, he liked some people better than the others, I mean, that -- I think that goes on anywhere. Eh, but -- he never -- I never -- we never -- didn't anybody in my department never lost their job, because of union activities.

GEORGE STONEY: Now, tell us about why the people [at?] -- you said that -- they told us the other day that the people were suspicious of you.

MCGILL: Oh, well, I -- I never, uh, I got to work, and I didn't, uh, live in that area of town, most of them come, and, uh, I found out later that they, uh, had, uh, pretty well, the people who were starting the union, not to tell me, because they were a little bit afraid of me, because I lived in another part of town, and dressed a little better. I was able to do that, because my sister made my clothes. And riding the streetcar, I had -- had work clothes at the mill, and I, uh, rode, uh, I wore a hat. Back then, people wore hats, and, uh, there's another lady that lived, uh, in that area that rode the streetcar with me. Uh, I never will -- I have to tell that. She came to work, uh, in the mill, and, uh, Joe came down there, my boss said, "Eula," he said, "I 00:27:00hired a woman tonight," and, uh, he said, "she told me she's experienced, but sh-- if she's ever ex-- has been experienced, she's lost the experience," said, "she just can't do the job," and I went down to lay her off, and she got to crying, telling me how bad she needed to work, and he said "I just thought of you, and Emma, and Lou, would help her, until she can train sufficiently, that I can keep her, if you girls are willing to help her." So we did, and, uh, later on, when we was organizing the union, uh, she rode the streetcar, uh, we rode the streetcar, same streetcar out from town, and she rode another streetcar into town. But when we transferred to go to the plant, she -- she rode the streetcar. And we'd walk together down to the plant. So, they asked me to -- to talk to her about joining the union. And, uh, by that time, NIRA had come in, and the WPA projects, and her husband had 00:28:00gotten a pretty good job on WPA. And they were doing a little better. And, uh, so I asked her, I said, "You know, we're organizing a union." I never will forget she drew herself up, and she said, "Well, you know, I'm thinking about quitting. You know, I really don't have to work." Forgot all about us helping her, and everything, and I didn't say anything about that, I looked at her, and I said, "Well, I don't have to work either, I could starve to death." Because I had two alternatives, to work, or go hungry. Well, I never forget how she was so indignant why she was joining the union, she was going to quit, she didn't really have to work.

GEORGE STONEY: Tell us about the meetings that you had.

JAMIE STONEY: No.

GEORGE STONEY: OK, just a moment --

JAMIE STONEY: (inaudible)

GEORGE STONEY: Hold it.

HELFAND: George --