[Silence]
JOYCE BROOKSHIRE: So what happened? How did Cabbagetown get its name?
00:01:00LEROY MCCOY: Well, a man was coming down the hill here, going pretty fast with
his truck, he had truck load of cabbage. (inaudible)make a turn and the cabbage went everywhere. All along Boulevard and up Carroll Street. And uh people got to looking around at it and (inaudible) said "Pick up and take them where you want to." He says, "I'm not gonna pick them up." Says, "You can have all the cabbage you want." Everybody in the community come, and that night you couldn't smell anything but cabbage cooking all around here. (inaudible)[break in video]
JAMIE STONEY: Rolling.
GEORGE STONEY: Get him to tell the story again.
JAMIE STONEY: Yeah.
GEORGE STONEY: Okay could you just tell the story again?
MCCOY: (inaudible)and he went that way, and cabbage went that way. And people
got to gathering around, said "Pick 'em up and take 'em." (inaudible;) gonna pick 'em up. And that night you couldn't smell nothing but cabbage 00:02:00cooking in the whole community. So (inaudible) they call this Cabbagetown, and it's had this name for years and years.JAMIE STONEY: So the truck turned over right here?
MCCOY: It turned over right here as it was coming around this curve.
GEORGE STONEY: Did you resent the place being called Cabbagetown as a child?
MCCOY: No. It didn't bother me. And I don't think it bothered anybody else.
BROOKSHIRE: Well it bothered Effie Grey.
MCCOY: Well that's Effie.
BROOKSHIRE: Yeah.
MCCOY: A lot of things bothered Effie Grey.
GEORGE STONEY: Who was Effie Grey?
BROOKSHIRE: Effie Grey was a lady who used to live in this house back here.
MCCOY: Lived right there.
BROOKSHIRE: She's real strong lady, she worked in the mill at the time of the
strike. She was against the strike, and on day there were some of the organizers 00:03:00sitting on her porch. And she was scrubbing the kitchen with real hot water, so she went out there and throwed the hot water on them and went, "Oh excuse me I didn't know you were sitting here." They got away real fast.MCCOY: (inaudible) good place to live all these years. Everybody got along.
BROOKSHIRE: It was a real community.
MCCOY: It was a community,
BROOKSHRIE: I mean everybody knew everybody else.
MCCOY: That's right.
BROOKSHIRE: You know at night everybody would gather on the porch and do music,
and the kids would play. You knew your next door neighbor. Now folks hardly know who they live next to. You knew who lived next door to you and up the street.MCCOY: I lived over on Pullman Terrace, on down this street for 50 years. And
00:04:00I've never had nobody bother me yet.GEORGE STONEY: Did they have better houses for your supervisors?
MCCOY: Well maybe some of us had better houses our own selves (inaudible) . But
lived in a stucco house on the corner of Pearl Street and Fulton Terrace. And they uh, up Pearl Street, several of the supervisors lived up Pearl Street. They were, they were pretty good houses. A church on the corner. The preacher lived in a brick house next to the church.GEOGRE STONEY: Did those belong to the Elsas?
MCCOY: All that property belonged to the Elsas. From here to all the way to
about a mile back that way.GEORGE STONEY: When did they start selling off the village?
BROOKSHIRE: Well it was about '57 wasn't it?
00:05:00MCCOY: Something like that. This company started in 18 and 68. By Jacob Elsas.
Him and (inaudible) to start with. They had one little building up there. And that little building is still there, in the center of that company up there. And they sold, I think in '57 they sold to company in Carolina. And uh another company bought it and it become Fabric and (inaudible) , uh Allied Products bought all of it. And when they closed it down the moved most of it to (inaudible) Alabama. And I think some of it went to, let's see, a town up here in north, northwest Georgia. But they didn't stay in (inaudible) Alabama too 00:06:00long cause they didn't do too good down there. They couldn't teach the people how to run the machinery. They never could get it started up right. Asked me to go and I wouldn't go.BROOKSHIRE: You wouldn't go to Alabama?
MCCOY: That's right, I wouldn't go, wouldn't go to (inaudible) Alabama.
BROOKSHIRE: Um I forgot what I (inaudible). What about Ira Stevens? He lived in
that house?MCCOY: He lived in that house and I've seen water a foot deep in his living
room. And that store right there (inaudible) there wasn't enough sewage around here to take the water, Every time it rained, this place had it up to your belt.BROOKSHRIE: Yeah that's where we kids used to swim.
00:07:00MCCOY: Uh-huh.
BROOKSHIRE: How about when, how did Cabbagetown get its name?
MCCOY: Well Cabbagetown got its name from a truck coming down the hill there too
fast loaded with Cabbage and it turned over right here at this corner and they went all over Boulevard and all over Carrol Street. Everybody go to standing around looking and the man said, "Pick it up and take what you want." He says, "I'm not gonna pick it up." And that night you could smell cabbage cooking all over the country around here. And that from till today years ago this is Cabbagetown.M1: Did you eat cabbage that day
MCCOY: I didn't. I never did eat cabbage, I don't like it.
BROOKSHIRE: Still don't --
MCCOY: Still don't.
GEORGE STONEY: Do you still in live in that house up there?
MCCOY: No I live on (inaudible) close to Grant Park.
BROOKSHIRE: A lot of the folks moved out. The mill sold their houses. The
00:08:00houses started going down after they sold to absentee landlords.MCCOY: I know that's right. They sold all the property to the around here. I
bought my mother and father a house over on Fulton Terrace. That house (inaudible).GEORGE STONEY: Okay, thank you.
[break in video]
GEORGE STONEY: Okay, sorry, when you're ready.
MCCOY: (inaudible).
LUCY CALLAHAN: You remember giving them books out.
MCCOY: Yeah. Sure do.
CALLAHAN: This has got your picture in it.
MCCOY: I'll bet it has. It will tell you how many years I was there.
ETHEL BARBER: I'll say it sure does.
MCCOY: Yup that's old [Norman Gunn?] and [Lester?] (inaudible). Let's see,
how many years did I have in this – I was there 34 years when this picture was 00:09:00made. Warp prepartion, yup. That was our spool room.BARBER: That's right. That's right.
GEORGE STONEY: Could you tell about how you felt working under this gentleman?
BARBER: You don't want me to tell on you, do you Leroy?
MCCOY: Go ahead and tell them whatever you want to tell them.
BARBER: No he was a good foreman, there's no question about it. He was real
good. I did never have no trouble with him. If I ever went to his job he always told me what to do, and I worked on that job for as long as I worked for Leroy McCoy. I worked every day.MCCOY: As long as you run your job I didn't bother nothing.
BARBER: He never said a word, never come around and said a word.
00:10:00MCCOY: Except, hey.
BARBER: Yeah and good morning.
MCCOY: When I spoke to everybody else and I spoke to you cause I didn't want
nobody pointing the finger and saying he's going with that woman.BARBER: That's right. That's the truth Leroy. He treated everybody alike.
MCCOY: I tried my best.
BARBER: And he was one good foreman.
MCCOY: I appreciate that.
BARBER: He treated everybody good, and they enjoyed working for him.
MCCOY: IF you ever asked me a question and I didn't know I went and found out
about it.BARBER: That's right you sure did.
MCCOY: And I'd come back and told you.
BARBER: Yup it wasn't delayed either.
MCCOY: That's right.
BARBER: We got the message straight out. He was one good --
CALLAHAN: Who y'all gonna show these pictures to?
MCCOY: Huh?
GEORGE STONEY: Well I hope people like you.
BARBER: They better not tell them who we are Leroy.
MCCOY: No, I remember one time I was at a girl's house and look up, saw Lucy
00:11:00looking out the window at me. Do you remember who that was?CALLAHAN: No nuh-uh.
MCCOY: They lived on the corner of Wylie and Carrol.
BARBER: No Tennielle Leroy.
MCCOY: Was it Tennielle?
BARBER: Well you Tennielle come right around the mill there and across Carrol
Street and straight --MCCOY: (inaudible)
BARBER: Yeah.
CALLAHAN: I don't remember that.
MCCOY: That's been a lot of years back.
BARBER: I know it-
(crosstalk inaudible)
BARBER: She was working on the third floor Leroy.
MCCOY: Yup in the spinning room.
BARBER: That's right.
MCCOY: Filling
BARBER: But they mostly kept her on warp all the time.
MCCOY: Ethel Davis was a spooler hand.
BARBER: Yeah.
GEORGE STONEY: Was a lot of romance in the factory?
BARBER: No there was not.
MCCOY: No. (inaudible)
BARBER: In the spooler room there was, lot of confusion. I guarantee you on that.
MCCOY: There's old Dan Turner that used to fix spoolers.
00:12:00BARBER: I was a spooling and the doffers would get around they'd come out
there and help me spool, and [Marvin Sargent?] didn't like it. And he told me he was going to come down here and tell my momma on me. And I told him when I got off for him to come home with me. And he wouldn't do it. He said "I'm gonna write her a note." And I said " Don't you give it to me, cause I won't give it to her." And I said, "Now if them doffers want to help me spool this yarn up it ain't none of your business." He said, "Well I'm gonna tell you momma on you." But they helped me whether he liked it or not. They'd come out there -- he'd watch my spooling room every time he'd run them doffers out of there and make them go back to the spinning room. We aggravated old Marvin, I'm telling you right now. We aggravated Marvin Sargent.MCCOY: You had 39 years when this picture was made.
GEORGE STONEY: What kind of music did you have?
00:13:00BARBER: Spool room lord have mercy, spinning was -- things a running wasn't it Leroy?
MCCOY: We didn't have no music, had noise.
BARBER: No, that's right. Them warpers and spoolers was humming.
(inaudible crosstalk)
CALLAHAN:-- ain't you ever been in a cotton mill?
BARBER: You've missed a lot. You have missed a whole lot by not going through --
MCCOY: I go the ones that has (inaudible) pictures.
BARBER: The cotton mill and hearing the noise of the weaving, and the card room,
and the spooler room. The humming of them machines in the spooler room. That's all you could hear. And the warpers are running, it was just a hum out of all that machinery.MCCOY: (inaudible)
BARBER: It was good music.
MCCOY: That was the old man right there that started it all in 18 and 68.
That's what it says 1868. 00:14:00BARBER: Yeah. And that was right up here next to the railroad at [Powell?]
Street, with the little old mill there.MCCOY: Call that the (inaudible) building.
BARBER: Yes sir. And they tore that down when the built--
MCCOY: No the mill was built around it.
BARBER: Well, no --
MCCOY: It's you know where the little blec – the bleachery part is?
BARBER: Yeah.
MCCOY: Well part of that was that building.
BARBER: Back then, Leroy, back when the built that old mill there was not no
building there where that bleachery is at. They was houses there. Let me tell you where Carroll Street goes across Tenneille, and goes up to the railroad, they was four little house along there.MCCOY: Oh yeah on Tennielle.
BARBER: And here on Tennielle --
MCCOY: I'm talking about up in the mill yard, where the machine shop is, part
of that was the old building because it has 1868 on it.BARBER: Back right against the railroad.
MCCOY: Right at the railroad.
00:15:00BARBER: Yeah. But later on the tore them houses down. Well the didn't tear
'em down they moved 'em somewhere . And then built that bleachery there.MCCOY: These is the last two men that ran most of the mill.
BARBER: Norman?
MCCOY: Norman and Clarence.
BARBER: Yeah.
MCCOY: And really.
GEORGE STONEY: Did you, did you know any of the big bosses?
BARBER: Yeah I – his, their grandchildren, we let them operate that machinery
there in that mill. We learned them to spool, we learned them to creel warps, we learned them to spin, we learned them to doff, he told them they had to go in there and learn it, just like he learned it. And us children learned 'em how to do it.MCCOY: That man, that man, and that man were my big bosses, at different times.
[Hankins?] Watson was the last big man there, that's when it shut down.BARBER: Yeah he was the last one there.
00:16:00GEORGE STONEY: Did you travel much outside of Cabbagetown?
BARBER: No, no, no, no and definitely no. Cabbagetown was the Fulton county --
Fulton Bag community, and we stayed at Fulton Bag community.MCCOY: I'll tell you a little story about these two smokestacks. There was a
man worked there at one time, and he wanted to quit. So he went down and told Mr. Florence, he said, "Mr. Florence, I'm gonna quit, I want my money." Mr Florence said, "Well what's your trouble?" He said, "Well to tell you the truth those two smokestacks are on the wrong side of the railroad." Well that man was gone about 10 years. And he came back. Walked into Mr. Florence's office, said, "Mr. Florence I'd like to get a job." Mr. Florence looked up and him and went, "Oh I remember you. He said, "Well I'd like to get a job." And he said, "Well we can't use you cause never have moved them two smokestacks, they're still on the wrong side of the railroad tracks."BARBER: That is just about like Mr. Florence. Easy talking somebody.
00:17:00MCCOY: He was the head of the employment.
BARBER: Yeah. He was a good old man, I'll telling you.
MCCOY: He sure was.
GEORGE STONEY: You said you stayed in Cabbagetown.
BARBER: Yeah.
GEORGE STONEY: Why did you stay in Cabbagetown?
BARBER: Well we was young and we didn't have no desire to go nowhere else.
MCCOY: Good place to live.
BARBER: That's right. Everybody knowed each other and we was a good bunch of
people. And we come here from the country, everywhere in the country. And we come here and setup out lives here, and we loved it, and we stayed right here. We had no desire to go and see other places.GEOGRE STONEY: Now, I've heard from some other people that people looked down
on cotton mill people, called them lintheads.BARBER: Well they didn't do it here. Because we was --
MCCOY: They didn't do
it to your face.BARBER: No sir they didn't, the sure did not, I'm telling you. No they did
not. Because everyone knowed one another, and ready to help one another if they 00:18:00was in any kind of situation. And we enjoyed everybody. We knowed them, we had our sidewalk singing here, music.MCCOY: This was one of my departments.
BARBER: People --
MCCOY: This was one of my departments.
GEORGE STONEY: Just talk about that sidewalk singing.
BARBER: Well the churches, we went to these churches and they all went to
church, and on Saturday night or Sunday we'd have open air meetings around in the community. And the churches would gather together, and we'd have services and open air services, and singing all Sunday evening. So we didn't desire to go nowhere else. This was our home and we appreciated it and enjoyed it.GEORGE STONEY: What songs did you sing?
00:19:00BARBER: Church songs. All kind of religious church songs is what we sung.
GEORGE STONEY: Could you sing any of those songs now?
BARBER: No, I ain't able to sing. And another thing, I'll tell you another
thing. Right out there in the middle of that village, they had a bandstand out there. And every year, every year, election year come along for the governor or the mayor, John Carson would make music, and sing, and try to get people to vote for the man that he was working for.CALLAHAN: Who was Eugene Talmadge.
BARBER: Yeah. He come out there and say --You remember him making music for
Gene, Leroy?MCCOY: Sure do.
BARBER: He'd stay out there maybe --
CALLAHAN: Old Moonshine Katie(inaudible)
BARBER: And that where that cabbage come in too.
00:20:00CALLAHAN: You may laugh but it's a dying truth.
BARBER: That's all she'd know to sing. (inaudible)
(inaudible crosstalk)
MCCOY: I was telling them how Cabbagetown got its name, about that truck
breaking down there at Boulevard.CALLAHAN: No that never did happen. They told that and it's a pure lie.
MCCOY: (inaudible)
JAMIE STONEY: What's the other story then if it's not the truck flipping
over, what the other –BARBER: Did you see it Leroy?
MCCOY: Yeas ma'am.
BARBER: Well I didn't know nothing about it.
MCCOY: Sure did.
BARBER: I sure did know nothing about it.
GEORGE STONEY: Could you sing that song? Ballad of Cabbagetown?
BARBER: Leroy do you know it? I don't --
MCCOY: No I don't know it.
BARBER: Moonshine Kate could sing.
CALLAHAN: We got too old to think about singing that.
BARBER: Yes Lord.
MCOY: Yeah I'll be 79, the third day of next month.
BARBER: Well I'll be 84.
CALLAHAN: I'll be 79 the fourth day of December.
MCCOY: (inaudible)
BARBER: And yours is next month Leroy?
00:21:00MCCOY: Mine is the third day of August.
BARBER: Well I declare. And hers is the 4th of December and mine's the 23rd of
December. She'll be 79 and I'll be 84 and you'll be 79. Well we been here two or three days ain't we. Yeah we've been here together two or three days.CALLAHAN: I'm not ashamed of my age though.
BARBER: Lord no.
MCCOY: I ain't ashamed of it either.
BARBER: I'm so proud the good Lord has been good to me that long.
GEORGE STONEY: Well now one of the things, that amazes me is that you both seem,
all three of you, in such good shape, and you spent all that time in the cotton mill with all this lint around, how did that happen?MCCOY: Well I'll tell you, we used a lot humidity to hold the lint down a
whole lot. Now the card room and the spinning room had an awful lot in it but most of the rest of it didn't have a lot of lint in it.CALLAHAN: Spinning room wasn't too bad.
MCCOY: Wasn't too bad especially on filling. Warp spinning was a little bad.
00:22:00BARBER: And we was just good stout healthy people, working it and the good Lord
took care of us. We were just good strong healthy people. And that's something that never did bother me. Never did bother me.GEORGE STONEY: I want ask you about a story I saw a picture in the Atlanta
Historical Society, showing tear gas being used out here. Do you recall any story about that? About a box car they were trying -- the strikers were trying keep the box car from moving. And somebody threw some tear gas.BARBER: I don't recall that, do you Leroy? Well did that happen when they had
that Exposition strike? You know it was worse there. Their strike was worse than ours. What I mean they was so many more outsiders went there. Well they did try turn over a railroad box car there on Jefferson Street. But they was a lot 00:23:00rougher there, during their strike then ours was. Lots worse. But I never did hear no tell of tear gas, being thrown out, I sure didn't.GEORGE STONEY: Now you've corrected me because it was at Exposition, it
wasn't here.BARBER: That's right because, you see um, Main Street come around off of
Marietta Street and went down around to Jefferson Street and that street was right at the fence, where the mill was fenced off. And the railroad went right straight and they had to open that gate for them cars to go in that building down there and that's where that happened. They tried to turn that railroad box car just inside of that fence. Cause they tore the gate open. And a friend 00:24:00of mine was living there and working there when it happened. And she was living on Jefferson Street. Just over from the mill when they had that strike there. And she said they really tore up things there on that railroad that went on down into the mill yard. But I don't recall here saying that they throwed any tear gas down there. But she said they had to call the National Guards out there. But they wasn't nothing like that here at that time.GEORGE STONEY: Did you have any National Guard around --
BARBER: No, no, not here, no, no, no, no. And just barely a few city polices.
Because they had their guards out here and they took care of all of the employees. Didn't they Leroy?MCCOY: That's right.
BARBER: Our own guards for the mill, took care of that. Because the deputized
my brother and he was a guard.MCCOY: We had a mill police --
BARBER: Yeah we had two mill police.
MCCOY: Two, two of them.
BARBER: Yeah.
00:25:00GEORGE STONEY: Could you talk about your brother getting deputized?
BARBER: No, no because I wouldn't want to say nothing about my brother cause
he lived to be 86 years old. And he was with us when he passed away. And he was a sweet old rascal.MCCOY: When did your brother pass away Lucy?
BARBER: '79.
MCCOY: In '79?
BARBER: My husband died in '78, '87, my husband died I '87. And my mom
died in '88.CALLAHAN: '58.
BARBER: Yeah. '58 and momma died in '59.
CALLAHAN: In '59.
BARBER: And we was still living right down there. Across the street here on
Gaskill Street.GEORGE STONEY: How many of your children worked in the mills?
BARBER: Mine? One.
MCCOY: Do you remember when [Cleve?] fell through the glass?
BARBER: Yeah, yeah a glass door?
MCCOY: I'm the one that stopped the blood.
BARBER: Yeah.
00:26:00MCCOY: Keep him from bleeding to death.
BARBER: I remember you coming up the street --
MCCOY: Yeah.
BARBER: And you come in the house. And momma was --
MCCOY: She got me a big towel and a stick and I wrapped it around his arm and
stopped the blood from flowing. We took him to the hospital, me and Old Man Jim (inaudible) rook him to the hospital.BARBER: That's right. Joyce was asking me about that corner there. You know
when we moved here, where her building is at now it wasn't there. It was a two story wood building. And it set this way on Carrol Street. And the old man lived in a house on Gaskill and her son lived in the house behind it. And they run a used furniture store right there. And the hand the upstairs, Leroy in the front of it there wasn't no sidewalk there, it was all sand. Just as sandy, and that 00:27:00old man would sit there in front of that door. You just had two steps to go up in there in that store. And they had all kind of old used furniture and grandpa sat there and sold used furniture. And uh, Jim run a ice truck.MCCOY: I enjoyed looking at that Lucy.
BARBER: He, he run a ice truck.
GEORGE STONEY: Okay, I think we've got what we need.
JUDITH HELFAND: Can Lucy show us her apartment?
GEORGE STONEY: Yes. But do we want to move the (inaudible).
M1: Excuse me. My arm's good and tired.
JAMIE STONEY: I can get her where she is.
GEORGE STONEY: Okay.
[break in video]
HELFAND: (inaudible)
JAMIE STONEY: No I just stopped the camera for a second.
GEORGE STONEY: Okay.
JAMIE STONEY: Rolling
GEORGE STONEY: Could you get Lucy to show you those things please?
BARBER: Her pins?
GEORGE STONEY: Yes.
BARBER: Lucy, show Leroy your pins.
CALLAHAN: Excuse me.
00:28:00(inaudible conversation)
[break in video]
GEORGE STONEY: To show the pins.
BARBER: Well when she gets back.
HELFAND: Also --
JAMIE STONEY: I just need a close up of her.
HELFAND:-- if you, maybe you --
CALLAHAN: (inaudible)
MCCOY: Hold it just there, she gonna ask you to show 'em to me.
GEORGE STONEY: Okay.
BARBER: Lucy, show Leroy your pins. Your merits.
MCCOY: And this your 40th year?
CALLAHAN: That's the 40th.
MCCOY: That's what I thought.
CALLAHAN: And this is the 45.
MCCOY: And this is the 45. Three little diamonds. This one has two diamonds
and a sapphire, and this one has three diamonds. 40 years and 45 years of service.BARBER: Well you got them same time Leroy.
MCCOY: I have this one. See the last time that I went there I made 42 years
straight. See I worked 5 years and left, and stayed gone 2 months and then I 00:29:00come back and stayed 42 years.BRARBER: And you got--
MCCOY: I have two diamonds and a sapphire.
BARBER: And she's got.
MCCOY: She has three diamonds cause she was there 45 straight years.
BARBER: Yeah.
GEOGRE STONEY: Could you –
MCCOY: That's real nice Lucy.
GEORGE STONEY: Could you two talk about being sisters in the mill?
BARBER: Well everybody that knows us knows we are sisters. And another thing,
she wasn't old enough to go to work when she wanted to go to work. So she just kept at me to help her get in the mill to work. So her birthday was supposed to be in December, and was it in May? We got the family Bible and we sat down and marked out her regular birthday and moved it up. From December till May and took the Bible out there at the mill office and then they give her a job. She's younger.MCCOY: (inaudible)
00:30:00CALLAHAN: And I'll tell you what, the day when I first went to work, we worked
from 6 in the morning till 6 at night, go home for lunch.BARBER: That's right 12 hours.
CALLAHAN: Go back. Work 5 hours on Saturday morning I made $10.10 a week.
BARBER: And we was working 12 hours too then, wasn't we Leroy.
MCCOY: Well I was working 11 hours at night. You know the stopped off at six
o'clock in the morning and I worked 11 hours, 55 hours a week for $11.20.BARBER: I'm telling you we'd go to work and at 6 and they'd give us --
F3: Maybe a little bit more?
BARBER: They'd give us an hour for dinner