Marion "Peanut" Brown



GEORGE STONEY: Look to your father just a moment, that's it. Good.

MARION "PEANUT" BROWN: (inaudible)

(inaudible conversation off-camera)

BROWN: Yeah I remember when the Depression started, like I said it started in 1929, in October I think it was. And well, we just had gotten married, me and my wife (laughs), and we, we thought later on maybe we cause the Depression by [starting market falling?]. But then it, it got a little worse and worse, '29, '30, '31, '32. Long about then I was working on the WPA, Work Progress Administa-- we called that big railroad the W P and A (laughs). I wrote a song 00:01:00back then. I called it "Streamline Talking Blues." I'll play you a verse or two of it, let's see. (Singing) Now, married life is all right if you don't drink liquor and stay out at night. Work hard all the week, give your wife the pay, keep your good works going till Judgment Day. Marry young, raise children, and die slappy -- I mean happy. Now the other night I went to bed, I pulled the cover up over my head. I woke up with a mighty pain, I was lying on the baby's toy train. The baby was bawling, wife howling, home sweet home. Now listen boys, if you want to get rich, get a pick and shovel and dig you a ditch. You'll learn 00:02:00the art in a couple of days, and get you a job on the WPA. Push buggies, shovel mountains. Now there's nothing like a happy home, work hard all day and then go home. Set right down to read the news, kids hanging on your coat and untying your shoes. Rubbing syrup in your eyes. They love Papa. I was down in the hen house the other night. The hens had out the electric lights. I scrambled around, not young as I used to, grabbed at a hen but I got a rooster. The feathers flying, hens cackling, that stole sweet Papa. (Speaking) But I tell you though, the songs that they like best though, that which songs back then. Here's a 00:03:00couple of them that they really liked and we had to sing these at every meeting we had. (Singing) When it's springtime in the Rockies, I'll be coming back to you. Little sweetheart of the mountains, with your bonny eyes so blue. Once again I'll say I love you while the birds sing all the day. When it's springtime 00:04:00in the Rockies, in the Rockies far away. My wild Irish rose, the sweetest flower that grows. You may search everywhere, but there's none can compare, with my wild Irish rose. My wild Irish rose, the sweetest flower that grows. And someday for my sake, she may let me take a bloom from my wild Irish rose.

STONEY: You were talking about the son of Fiddlin' John Carson's who--Horace--who was a leader of the strike. Could you talk about him, just mention him.

BROWN: Yeah, yeah, Horace. He was, Horace Carson, I remember him very much. He was--he was well liked around there in Cabbagetown. They nicknamed him the Mayor of Cabbagetown, because everything that went on, he was right behind it, behind Cabbagetown, boy, I don't care what it was. But uh, old Horace, he was right in there with every meeting, and he, he'd (laughing), Horace stuttered, you know, and couldn't talk very much, but he'd stutter. Well his daddy did too, but. He would get up there you know and start t-t-t-telling about it, you know, and he'd get them all to laugh and he'd say "I w-w-w-worked in the mill down the b-b-b-b-boss named s-s-s-s-so-and-so and this a fellow, and he'd get them all 00:06:00tickled. Old Horace, but--he backed them right on up. In, during all this strike.

STONEY: How did they eat during the strike?

BROWN: Very little. We, well I tell you, there was soup lines and bread lines around, see, and you'd get in one of them, they shared the food, people had it, you know, they shared it. And you could get, you could go to different places and get food, get soup and bread and things of that nature. And they'd give out, I think, government'd give out beef, canned beef, you know. Man, I ate that canned beef fried, boiled, stewed, you name it. That there canned beef that they had. They got telling a joke (laughs) about that canned beef, said the reason 00:07:00they'd got so many, that out west there were so many cows dying, so they canned it (laughing). That wasn't true but they did get that tale out.

STONEY: You were telling us before, I just want you to repeat it, about the mill preferring people from the mountains rather than hiring people from the city.

BROWN: Yeah. Yeah, you could go in Fulton Bag, say a city man go in there, been working somewhere else, and ask for a job, maybe he wouldn't get it. But a man come right behind him, say "Where you from sir?" "Come from up in the Blue Ridge Mountains area," okay, he'd start writing him up. He'd write up them mountain people because they found out one thing about them, they'd been used to working from sunup to sundown, you know, in the country with no wages like they was getting now. That was good wages for the farmers, for the mountain people. They never had made no money like that. Some of them learned to weave and spin and 00:08:00they did make pretty good, some of them 25, 30 dollars a week. And so they, they didn't want to, actually they didn't want to strike because it was, they was doing well, had bought their stuff, you know, furniture to pay on, and during that time people that owed debts, that's one good thing about it, they waited on them until they went back to work before they got after them about paying, you know, the bills on -- excuse me -- furniture and so forth. It was, I've had a lot of -- I've missed a lot of meals. Used to back then when you went to the doctor, you know, it wasn't "What have you eaten that made you sick?" it was "When did you eat?" (laughs) And that says right there what you've got, you've 00:09:00got the missed-meal colic. We didn't eat much, but the -- no, go ahead.

STONEY: Could you talk about, uh, race in the mills?

BROWN: Well, I'll tell you, there wasn't much race down there. Back then you know, there was very much hatred for the, for the blacks and Jews and Catholic people. And that's one thing that was really bad. But there was Jews who'd run, I know of three Jews who'd run stores right up and down Carroll Street. They got as much trade as the Gentile people trading. One reason the, them Jews started giving them credit, you know, give them credit from one week to the next, sometimes they'd leave, wouldn't pay the debt, but when they come back and went 00:10:00to work they'd give them more credit. They wanted, most of them did have to have credit because they couldn't pay from one, one meal to the next. But they was some rough times, when you didn't eat for a good while. I know I had some of them. I tell you what we done there, during the worst part of the strike I started peddling. It was hard to sell stuff too see, during the Depression. And we would go up to the what's called the produce row, and buy a big sack of butter beans. We call them lima beans, you know, you probably know them as. And we'd come home, take them home, me and my brother, his wife, my wife, and shell those butter beans up until about two or three o'clock in the morning. And them me and him would put them in the baskets, go out and sell them that day, go out and get another big sack, come home, repeat the same thing over and over. I 00:11:00never got so tired of shelling beans, boy, my hands got sore. But had to do it, it was just one of the hardships of it. And we could, the beans sold pretty good shelled.

STONEY: Could you go back and talk about black and white relations?

BROWN: Yeah, well I tell you, they wasn't good at all. They -- the colored women lived on the other side of the mill across Decatur Street. They would come over there and get the washing, clothes for people that worked in the mill, you know? And they'd tote them home in big sacks, carry them in big sacks, they would wash them and dry them and iron them and bring them back on Saturday, a big load like that for a dollar. But they didn't, they was a bunch of mean boys and all, 00:12:00teenagers, whites, in Cabbagetown, they didn't allow no blacks down there. Every time they'd catch them down there, they'd rock them, rock them in, you know, throw rocks at them, just run them until they got back across the railroad. But they got it back on us. We had to, when we went to school we had to go past right through their place, see, where they was going to school, and man they would rock us (laughs). It was a rock and roll. They'd rock you down, you'd roll over. It worked pretty well both ways but we had some terrible knives -- we had what they call flips, slingshots, some of them had pistols. They'd come through what we called Reynoldstown then, and it was rough, it was really rough.

STONEY: Were there any blacks working in the mills?

BROWN: Sweepers. Few sweepers. Very few sweepers. Just menial job, you know, a job that nobody else wanted. They had, yeah they didn't have none -- that was a, really a shame that they couldn't -- later on they got jobs in there and done just as well as the white people did.

STONEY: Could you talk about religion and the mill village?

BROWN: Well, all -- country music, Cabbagetown, and the mill, religion was all mixed in with it, see. All country musicians, we play sacred songs, you know, gospel songs and all. They do. But it was, it played a great part in the, of the people lived there. And they'd come from, one of them had come from up in the mountains, see, was either -- where I lived up in the mountain there, there wasn't but two churches, see, up there. And the -- that's why most of them that 00:14:00come down was either Methodist or Baptist. And -- I, this little story fits in with it. And I remember, go down a country road, there was a Baptist church sitting here on this side of the little road, and a Methodist church sitting here. And sometimes a Methodist you know they'd get -- they'd fall out with the Methodists and they'd come over and join the Baptists, sometime a Baptist would get out with them, he'd join the Methodists. But I noticed, I was in the Baptist church, and I noticed if they come over they had to be baptized, you know, the Methodists did, to join the Baptists. But I noticed something strange about our preacher. When he baptized them Methodists, he held them under the water longer than he did us (laughs). But -- but anyhow, they'd start singing, Baptist church on this side and Methodist on this side. Every night they'd start singing about 00:15:00the same time. And the Methodists start singing "Will there be any stars in my crown?" and the Baptists singing "No, not one." (laughter) But anyhow, they come on down and most of them was either Baptist or Methodist, you know. They was, it was good people, and -- but they was hard workers. And --

STONEY: Did they take any -- the church take any interest in the strike, in the working conditions?

BROWN: Not to the best of my knowledge. Only the people who was, belonged to the church. The leaders, I don't think did. Not to my knowledge. They didn't take much part in the strike. But all the -- everyone who worked in the mill though belonged to some church. It was three churches down there. One was Baptist, then 00:16:00they had a Methodist and Pentecostal, and -- that's about what they was made of.

STONEY: Talk about Klu [sic] Klux.

BROWN: Oh, Ku Klux. That there -- I remember they used to march up and down there, and they had, they showed that picture over there one time at the theater, Fairview Theater, not far from Cabbagetown on Memorial Drive. And they showed that Birth of a Nation, and I never seen the like of bedsheets in all of my life. With holes in them. But up and down Carroll Street, lot of them -- most of them store owners, you know, and all belonged to the Ku Klux. And not only that but there was lawyers, judges, polices, and all that belonged to the Ku Klux. And I remember they had a word back then, that I called, I was just a kid, but they'd meet one another with a code, you know, and one of the words was 00:17:00"Ayak1." And the other one was "Akia2." And I said, now that can't be, that's got to be something, that ain't my language (laughs). But those -- there was one old man that run a furniture store down there, he was some of them said you know thought he was a Ku Klux, so they was going to have a march that day over at that theater you know, and I said "I'm going to see if he's, I'm going to find out if he's a Ku Klux." And I looked at the shoes he was wearing, see, they was all different from anybody else's. I went over there that day and as they marched down by the theater, you know, I was looking at every one of them's feet, just a boy you know. There he come, them shoes, yep, that's Jonas Pittman. I went back down Carroll Street telling every one of them Jonas Pittman was a Ku Klux. But they'd march out Stone Mountain and build a fiery cross, you know, and 00:18:00scare black children and -- I didn't like that, I was just a boy but I seen there was something definitely wrong with that. But they'd have that big meeting there on Stone Mountain. But boy, later on they start fanning out, everybody'd start falling out, especially the upper class people, you know, but -- I said "No." Later on they wanted me to join and I said no.

STONEY: Well now the Elsas were Jews.

BROWN: Yeah.

STONEY: Could you talk about that in relation to what people thought of them?

BROWN: Well, naturally they had to speak, talk pretty good of them, that was their bosses you know, Jake Elsas. Jake Elsas, he seemed to be a pretty good man, but he just wouldn't, I don't know, he just didn't treat the people right 00:19:00as far as, they made a lot of money, that cotton mill, and he didn't -- he didn't pay them right. But they did have a ball team down there, though. He didn't allow them to fence the ball team in until he died, long as he lived he wouldn't let them fence it in. Quick as he fenced it in -- quick as he died they fenced it in, started charging to get in. But they had ballplayers, they'd hire -- anybody could play ball, somebody else -- if he couldn't run his job somebody else had to run it. Yeah, they said, I know my brother-in-law said "Listen, I'm keeping up this fellow's job here." He'd say, "Well I know he's a ballplayer," but says, "We've got to keep him, you've just got to keep his job up if you want to work." He had to keep that ballplayer's job up. But the Elsas, they kept [putting quiet?] they wasn't much into the strike. You didn't see none of them 00:20:00around. Just the bosses from the superintendent on down.

STONEY: Now could you talk about the women and the mills, and the strike?

BROWN: The women?

STONEY: Yeah.

BROWN: Well, they was -- the women was for it. They was the one, most of the women, boy, was the ones that kept it really going, because they talked it up more than the men did. Because you get a woman (laughs) excuse me, y'all -- you get a woman riled up you know and they'll really tell you what they think about it. And they would, they'd get up in the meetings and tell how hard it was in the mill and what all they made them do, and all of that. And point them out even, they'd say "And there stands the old boss right over there, make them do so and so." They'd speak out, but men was a little more shy about that, you 00:21:00know. But they was in there, the women was in the strike. Hadn't have been --

STONEY: Now you told us that the people who led the strike had to leave. Could you just start telling about that whole story? I didn't know that.

BROWN: Yeah. Yeah, you mean had to leave the mill. Yeah the ones that was in the strike, especially the leaders you know, they did have to leave. When they started hiring them back, they come up, they come up to the office desk you know, and they'd give them their name, they'd look on the list, if you was on the list it was goodbye Charlie, see. He wouldn't hire you back. They had on there whatever you'd done, all the things you'd said. And they kept it down. I remember when you left Fulton Bag Mill you had to give a reason for leaving, see. And it was this one man left, he quit you know, and he went down to the 00:22:00office to sign out and Mr. Florence, he had the palsy, you know, and he had to write, never look up, just write and ask you questions. And he asked him, says "Why are you leaving?" He said, "Well I'll tell you, Mr. Florence," says "the mill's on the wrong side of the street." He said okay, and he wrote it down. Twenty years later that man come back, went into the office and asked Mr. Florence for a job. Mr. Florence looked up and said, "I'm sorry," says "The mill's still on the same side of the street it was on when you left." (laughter) They kept stuff. That old man had a memory like an elephant. They was good times and bad times. It was something else, though.

STONEY: Okay, let's hold it just a moment.

[break in video]

STONEY: Okay, ah -- when we talked with a lot of people in Cabbagetown, they've told us that all of the strikers, the whole business was something dreamed up by outsiders, and it had nothing to do with the people that actually lived in Cabbagetown. Now suppose you heard that, how would you respond?

BROWN: I'd say that's not so. Now there was, what you call it, ones that come along first, you know, and was talking to the people about didn't they want to make better wages, didn't they want to have a better living, and it come down from South -- North Carolina, see. What do you call them? When they come in first, the -- I forget it now, but anyhow, the leaders, they come in, they talked about it, you have to in order to get a strike to going, or why would you strike? And so they'd come in asked them all about it, every one, most everyone said, "Yeah, we'd like to make more money." They said, "Well, you'll never make 00:24:00it unless we unionize. So you've got to come together, everybody unionize, then we'll have the power, force, to force them to pay you good wages that you can live on." And so that, that's how it happened. And they come in.

STONEY: Now, the Roosevelt -- you know, the New Deal had come in. Could you talk about what happened when the New Deal came in and Roosevelt?

BROWN: Well, when it come in President Roosevelt, the first thing he done was got started the, I forget now what you call it, for young men, unmarried men, you know, was living at home. Civilian camp, we called it. And he got them jobs in the civilian camps in different parts of the country working you know, and they could send money home to their mothers that ah, that lived with their 00:25:00mothers. He done that, he started that. Now that was, got things rolling back to progress. Then he started what you mentioned a while ago, the Works Progress Administration for the married men and women, see. And that got them all started back to work. And that was a good thing. I don't see any-- no way they could ever pull out of that, except for them two things that he done. And he froze the money on the banks, and ah -- so that was really good, he started back then the people began to eat better you know and have food, have more.

STONEY: Remember what happened when the hours got cut from twelve to eight?

BROWN: Oh, there was gladness, boy. They was glad because they was working them 00:26:00people to death. Twelve hours a day, from six till six. And man, when they cut it back to eight hours we thought heaven had broke loose. Had a little free time, you know, for, in the evening, afternoon. Then ah, see they'd just had, at that time they just had one shift, from six till six. They started one then from six until six in the morning. Then when they started the eight hours, they started three shifts. And that was pretty good. People'd work eight hours you know and have a little time for recreation. But I don't think it was no goodness of the mill that done that. That probably come through legislation, no doubt.

STONEY: Okay. I think that'll be it for now. Is there anything you have on your 00:27:00mind that you'd like to tell us, about Cabbagetown or the strike?

BROWN: Well, I don't know. If we had it, had to do over again we'd do, it'd be the same way, because I, I agree that they did need a strike, but I don't know really what happened. Somehow or another they pulled some strings, the companies, and [ported?] that strike. And they never did reap no benefits from it. (Clock chimes loudly) But I think --

STONEY: Sorry, umm, we missed the clock, so I'm going to get you to start over and say that same thing again, because that's too good [a statement?] to miss.

F1: Mm hmm. It's got to go twelve times, too.

STONEY: (Inaudible)

BROWN: What was I talking about? (laughs)

F1: He's got to get his train of thought back now.

STONEY: Okay.

BROWN: Have to get back to what I was thinking about. Oh yeah, the strike. Yeah, like I say, if I had it to do over, we'd do the same thing. But it's a sad case though, that after all of that strike and all of the time we was out, all of the hollering and the suffering that went on, it never did pay off. Never did pay off. And I believe, think it's this way: they started opening up, was going to hire them back, see. And they started, a lot of them one by one, who wasn't too much for the strike, started oozing back into the cotton mill, see. They knew they had them when that started. So like sheep, when that started, one would follow another one. Another one would follow another one. Even them, then that was really for the strike would say, "Well, we're going [here to get this 00:29:00line?], we ain't got nowhere -- this way. So we've got to get in the line see so we can go back and get our job back." That was a sad thing. They had to go back in the same conditions.

STONEY: That's exactly what I wanted. We've got a song for that will break your heart. (inaudible) "[Humbly?] Back in the Mills."

BROWN: Huh?

STONEY: Somebody's written a song called -- which we're planning to use called "Gotta Go Humbly Back in the Mills." And your statement is going to tie right in --

1 Also A.Y.A.K.: "Are you a Klansman?" 2 Also A.K.I.A: "A Klansman I am."