Brooks Pollard and John Pollard Jr. Interview 2



BROOKS POLLARD: (inaudible) at ten a.m., United Textile Workers of America local number 1936 Lloyd E. Braider [Brader?], secretary meets first and third Fridays at 8 p.m. Do you want me to turn the page? (laughs)

JUDITH HELFAND: That's fine.

BROOKS POLLARD: 2119 Murphy Cooper, secretary of each Saturday at ten a.m., [Art?] Wright's Mills, United Textile Worker's of America local 2145 –- Frank Dewberry, secretary, meets Saturday's at ten a.m. on south Liberty. United Waste Company…

HELFAND: You know what? They are just alphabetical that is like something else, United Waste Company that is not a union.

[break in video]

HELFAND You know that is what it must mean because there is a "c". So if you could say everywhere else in the book there is a "c", which means "colored", so this means it was a colored local.

BROOKS POLLARD: United Textile Workers of America local number #2145 "c", which means colored, Frank Dewberry secretary meets at ten a.m. at 511 and ½ South Liberty at the United Waste Company. There it is.

HELFAND: So in the city directory at that time can you tell me what a "c" meant?

BROOKS POLLARD: I would think it meant "colored".

HELFAND: Could you say that, could you say that a "c"? --

BROOKS POLLARD: The "c" in Frank Dewberry -- a "c" before Frank Dewberry's secretary meets –- See.

HELFAND: You can put the book down, you can look at me. Yeah.

BROOKS POLLARD: The "c" means "colored" I would think.

HELFAND: That's how they used to mark things back in those days.

BROOKS POLLARD: I guess so.

HELFAND: I am just floored that they would list themselves in the book. Because that means that they meant stay around.

BROOKS POLLARD: (nods) I liked the textile union, the only thing I did not like was that it kept my husband away too long. (laughs)

HELFAND: Now what happened after the strike? With your husband?

BROOKS POLLARD: After the strike he had no job so he got on with the W.P.A. –- making fifteen dollars a week which was pretty good money back then I guess. We could get two or three more coca-colas.

HELFAND: And then what happened, was he hired?

BROOKS POLLARD: And Frank Garmond hired him because of his activity in the union. He was an organizer.

HELFAND: You can give me that book back. I'm going to ask one more question and we're done.

M1: (inaudible)

[break in video]

HELFAND: We just need to be able to edit that's all. So if you could just look at the very last one and then turn the page that would be great. Do it just like 00:04:00before When you were reading --

M1: With the finger.

HELFAND: You read it with your finger, you read it a little bit slowly.

M1: And then turn the page.

HELFAND: Just, just lie before.

BROOKS POLLARD: United Textile Worker's of America local number #1936 Lloyd E. Braider secretary meets first and third Friday's at eight p.m. on East Main Street route four. United Textile Worker's of America local number #2919 Murphy Cooper secretary meets Saturday's at ten a.m. Arkwright School. United Textile Worker's of America local 2145 Frank Dewberry -- secretary 00:05:00meets Saturday's at ten a.m. at south Liberty Street.

HELFAND: That's great! (off-camera voice heard)

M1: That's good thanks.

[break in video]

HELFAND: Made him believe in the union?

BROOKS POLLARD: Well he had to quit school in the seventh grade –- and he went to work in a bakery for about a year I guess he was 13 or 14. Then he got a job over in Spartan Mills and I guess the labor and all over there just didn't satisfy his –- want it to better.

HELFAND: George Waltrip told me a story I guess about was John's father who had some lung problems, brown lung?

BROOKS POLLARD: Say what?

HELFAND: Is this right? George Waltrip was telling me about I guess it was your 00:06:00father-in-law, he worked at Spartan Mills.

BROOKS POLLARD: He worked at Spartan Mill, and lost a finger

HELFAND: And did they, did he? Turn the camera off for a sec –- is this true? You told me on the telephone when we spoke that the people here, that they not only had their own local union, but they seem to be connected, all of the local unions. I think your husband was involved in that wasn't he? In helping all of the local unions to get organized?

BROOKS POLLARD: Yeah. That's why he is gone all of the time.

HELFAND: Well, yeah --It seems to me that your husband gave a great deal of himself to the community.

BROOKS POLLARD: He did, he really did.

HELFAND: Too much huh?

BROOKS POLLARD: Well I -- really appreciate what he did.

HELFAND: Well I think everyone will appreciate what he did also.

BROOKS POLLARD: Say what?

HELFAND: I think that everyone will appreciate what he did also.

BROOKS POLLARD: Oh, I'm sure they did.

HELFAND: So after the strike he couldn't get his job back?

BROOKS POLLARD: I don't know whether he just quit or they fired him. Seem like he quit but I'm not sure.

HELFAND: But he couldn't get a job back at Spartan Mills?

BROOKS POLLARD: He didn't get it back – he never did go back rather.

HELFAND: Could you tell me that in one sentence? Could you say, "After the strike my husband didn't go back to work at Spartan Mills".

BROOKS POLLARD: I could be wrong but I don't think I am. After the strike my husband didn't go back to the mill. He got a job on the W.P.A. (inaudible)

HELFAND: And then, did he, but he didn't lose his feeling about unionism though?

BROOKS POLLARD: Oh, No. He still had the textile, the union was his life. No, that's when Gormand hired him when he worked on the W.P.A. He jumped at the chance -- We were sent to Richmond.

HELFAND: And did he do that for his life's work?

BROOKS POLLARD: No, he stayed with the union until the head of the United 00:09:00Textile Worker's until –- the head of United Text Workers (inaudible) were President and Vice-President. They got -- getting money out of the till and doing personal things with it. They had a big trial over that and he quit John did said it was getting to what it not ought to be run. And his last job was at the post office.

HELFAND: But he never, did he, so how long did he stay in the Spartanburg area trying to keep these local unions going? Do you know?

BROOKS POLLARD: Um, that was before my children were born. In '47 I forgot 00:10:00what he did. He had several jobs afterwards, but people found out who he was a lot of times and wouldn't hire him -- because he's an organizer.

HELFAND: So did the -- so did what happened to him? I mean did -- did the 1934 strike sort of stay with him all those years?

BROOKS POLLARD: Oh yeah, it did. That whole background of textiles –- he thought he still talked it.

HELFAND: Well you really, really helped us out a great deal with that book because when you, when you –- what does it make you think about?

BROOKS POLLARD: Those listings in there?

HELFAND: When you saw that listing yeah.

BROOKS POLLARD: I really didn't know it was in there -- until you showed it to me. But they must have been awfully open with it they didn't –- they wouldn't let them put that in a book would they?

M1: When you looked through the list did it bring back memories?

BROOKS POLLARD: Oh sure.

M1: Can you talk about that with us?

BROOKS POLLARD: I just remembered --

M1: Look at Judy.

BROOKS POLLARD: Oh, it brought back memories of the different unions, I mean it, uh –- the locals, John was affiliated with a lot of them I imagine –- after that.

HELFAND: Did um, that one thing, here again, here in Spartanburg, I guess that 00:12:00didn't have to be frightened at first? They could be public.

BROOKS POLLARD: With the textile locals listed in the directory I guess that means Spartanburg was pretty open about strikes and the unions.

HELFAND: You know at the time when they first put this in this book there was a new law that was set up, you know the NRA and the UDL and the (inaudible) legal. This came right after all of that and those laws said that people had the right to organize and to collective bargaining. So they were doing something the country they thought was supporting. Well so, is there anything else you might want to add?

BROOKS POLLARD: I wish I had some material that he, if I ever find any of it I 00:13:00would certainly let you know -- that you might be interested in.

HELFAND: Well I would sure appreciate that.

[break in video]

HELFAND: You were starting to tell me about your father and your father's activity and what he's told you.

JOHN POLLARD JR.: The only impact I think his activity in the union had on me is something he told me when I first went into the workforce he says since I had the same name as him. Don't let them know I'm related to him because of the paranoia he had about getting hired or not hired based on his history in the union. So he said, "Don't tell them that you're related to me because they won't hire you." –- That's basically it. He didn't really get into any stories about any of his union activities with me at all. But that one story 00:14:00about just don't tell them you're related to me in any way, you remember something like that. You just -- You look back at it like today coming in here and talking about it you realize why. Even though it was real open here in Spartanburg obviously he had some paranoia about it.

M1: He never mentioned it?

JOHN POLLARD JR: What?

M1: You never mentioned that you were his son?

JOHN POLLARD JR.: No I never did, not for that reason. Well maybe so, maybe it was that reason. But I never had the opportunity to not mention it.

HELFAND: Could you mention who your daddy -– you don't mind telling me the story one more time do you?

M1: Sorry one second.

HELFAND: Is that not sitting in? Could you say, my father John Pollard he was an organizer, could you tell me about that and then tell me what you did know or didn't know.

M1: Could we just check tone?

HELFAND: As long as you just refer, tell me that story again but refer to your father and then when your dad speaks, talk to me as if he's talking to you.

JOHN POLLARD JR.: My father John Pollard was a union organizer and one of the stories he told me when I entered the workforce here in Spartanburg was, "Don't mention that you're related to John Pollard even though I have the same name because you will not be hired", he said. He was just paranoid about that. And he mentioned it several times be sure you don't mention you're 00:16:00related to John Pollard you won't be hired he said it will get you in trouble. So even though it never really caused me any problems getting hired anywhere, it is something you put back in your mind you know. You have to take it out and look at it. Basically the only impact is –- affiliation with labor organizing had any effect on me at all. That's the one thing I remember.

HELFAND: So what do you do now?

JOHN POLLARD JR.: I work in textiles, so it's in the blood –- I guess.

HELFAND: So what about the union part?

JOHN POLLARD JR.: Well the union part has kind of fizzled away in this area. You don't hear any talk about it at all, at least where I go you don't. It is to satisfy the workers.

BROOKS POLLARD: They're raised it a lot. They make better money, a lot better.

JOHN POLLARD JR.: You don't want them to have the union.

HELFAND: Now did you ever hear

M1: I'm sorry could you, I wasn't on her, could you say that again?

HELFAND: You were telling that, did you know why your husband warned John the way he did?

BROOKS POLLARD: Because he knew the manufacturers knew him by his activity in the union, he was afraid that they wouldn't hire him.

HELFAND: What did you think about that?

BROOKS POLLARD: I agreed that he ought not to tell them.

HELFAND: What about, but what did you and your husband tell your children and your son John about the union or about his activity in the 1930s?

BROOKS POLLARD: Just the basic things like he was president of the union and he had a big part in the general strike.

HELFAND: Could you, you could even talk back and forth with each other a little bit. So and could you say, "the things I told my children" and then follow up like that.

BROOKS POLLARD: Are you talking to him?

HELFAND: I'm talking to you, but you could even ask her, "what did you tell us"? or something.

BROOKS POLLARD: What did he tell you that stuck in your mind?

JOHN POLLARD JR.: Just basically that one story about don't mentioning my name, to beware. I remember one thing, a phone call that came in about 1954. Do you remember one day answering the phone? And it was somebody to do with, he was working for the labor organization at the time and then he terminated his 00:19:00relationship with them. Someone called him and said something. I was just four or five years old. I remember you coming in and saying well John's not working for the union organizers anymore. Do you remember anything?

BROOKS POLLARD: Well it's been a long time ago.

JOHN POLLARD JR.: Yeah. I remember it like it was yesterday the phone ringing. Who was it? Do you remember?

BROOKS POLLARD: Umm, I sure don't.

HELFAND: So the only thing, so did you -- did you know that your daddy, did you know that your father was so active?

JOHN POLLARD JR.: No, I didn't know that.

HELFAND: Could you tell me that part?

JOHN POLLARD JR.: Well I guess growing up you get into the playing all the time you just don't get into the adult of things, I guess I didn't. I didn't realize he was a union organizer up until that phone call probably. And I just barely realized it at that point.

HELFAND: Now that -- What did you think about, you need to pick up this book, what did you think about seeing, this is the city phone book?

JOHN POLLARD JR.: This is the city phonebook directory for Spartanburg County in 1934. It's amazing how open it is, publishing times and all. It is amazing.

HELFAND: If you open it to "U" for United, that's what your momma was looking at before.

JOHN POLLARD JR.: To a "u". Can't do it until I have my glasses on.

BROOKS POLLARD: You don't mind if I take my shoes off, do you?

HELFAND: No.

BROOKS POLLARD: Squeezing my foot.

JOHN POLLARD JR.: To a "u", here we go, United Textile Workers, yeah. It's amazing; it's like clubs meeting at a certain time of day. So this is a rare 00:21:00thing I understand then.

BROOKS POLLARD: I bet you don't see a one of it in a directory now? Not that they're not open about it, but I don't think there's that many.

JOHN POLLARD JR.: There's not that much activity I guess.

HELFAND: What do you think, what does that, could you take your glasses off? What do you think the impact is, of your father just warning you like that and not telling you other stories?

JOHN POLLARD JR.: I think he was protecting me maybe, you know maybe that was what he was doing, protecting me from that side, I don't know. It had a 00:22:00certain impact on me, it makes you curious about it, umm. And to this day I guess I have not mentioned that I have been related to him. The opportunity has not come up to say, "I'm John Pollard's son, he was a union organizer." I guess I have been wary of that, beware.

HELFAND: Is it, is this the first time you have ever said that publically?

JOHN POLLARD JR.: I don't know, is this public? (all laugh)

HELFAND: Yeah, kind of.

JOHN POLLARD JR.: Let's hope so. Yeah I guess so this is the first time I've talked about it aloud. Just beware, when your father says beware you beware I guess.

HELFAND: Do you think you have to be beware?

JOHN POLLARD JR.: No, I don't think so.

M1: (inaudible)

HELFAND: Do you think you have to be frightened?

JOHN POLLARD JR.: No, I don't have to be frightened at all. Not now, you shouldn't be frightened at all. It was something he told me to and I guess I did it.

BROOKS POLLARD: You have to be over there at one, or two?

JOHN POLLARD JR.: We have fifteen minutes.

HELFAND: Then where do you have you go?

JOHN POLLARD JR.: Work. To see the nurse.

HELFAND: Wow. I just can't believe your father who had such a big presence here in Spartanburg never told you about that part.

JOHN POLLARD JR.: Yeah well, interesting.

HELFAND: Could you include my question in your answer?

JOHN POLLARD JR.: Repeat it?

HELFAND: Yeah, in a way.

JOHN POLLARD JR.: Repeat it for me please.

HELFAND: Oh, I'm saying, I'm trying to understand, I guess you answered it for me, you know. Here my father was real active, helped organize all of these 00:24:00locals, his locals at Spartan Mills, all over Spartanburg?

JOHN POLLARD JR.: I find it interesting --

M1: (inaudible)

JOHN POLLARD JR.: Sure.

HELFAND: Put it in your own words.

JOHN POLLARD JR.: I find it very interesting that as active as my father was, and unions, are organizing in the county and wherever. He did not mention this to me, he only mention to me he made was, "do not mention my name" because of the certain problems you'll have in the workforce here. And that's basically the way I look back and see it. He didn't tell me any stories, may be so I wouldn't repeat them. But beware, you have my name, but I don't think in this day and time I have to worry about stuff like that. But I work in the mill today.

HELFAND: What do you think is the impact of our parents not telling us the stories?

JOHN POLLARD JR.: There's a stop gap in there. Storytelling is a very important thing, I think to pass the lineage on you've got to tell stories. This documentary will probably help fill the gap that was left. It's a very important thing to do. Storytelling is very important.

HELFAND: What about history?

JOHN POLLARD JR.: History itself is a story. What's the old saying, "the country that does not know its history is doomed to repeat it." I guess that goes for people, countries, towns, all kind of different levels. So storytelling is very important.

HELFAND: Just here, you have more access to this history than almost anyone I've ever met.

JOHN POLLARD JR.: This is true but however the interest doesn't seem to be there for me.

HELFAND: Well, someone told you not to be interested.

JOHN POLLARD JR.: Yeah, probably so. Don't be interested in this.

HELFAND: Could you, a part of the sentence I said before, that I had more access to most, I don't know. Repeat that, you know. In some way.

JOHN POLLARD JR.: Here I am in a place that has more access to history in textiles than most areas and maybe based on what my father told me, or didn't tell me, the interest for me is not in the history of the textiles it's in other things. It's stay away from this, beware, of dog, "I don't know."(laughs)

HELFAND: Thank you so much. Is there anything before we turn everything off that you –- Are you surprised that we came here?

JOHN POLLARD JR.: Well if you knew my father, no. He had a lot of charisma, you expect things like this. You're just a little bit late. You missed him by like two years. How long has he been dead?

BROOKS POLLARD: Three years.

JOHN POLLARD JR.: Very interesting guy, very interesting guy. A fun guy to be around.

HELFAND: Would he, your father have talked to us?

JOHN POLLARD JR.: You could not have shut him up. He was a very talkative person, a very open person. He would really talk to you.

HELFAND: If your father had talked to us then maybe, then the mills would have known who your dad was.

JOHN POLLARD JR.: Well that's okay at this point in time I don't think it's important.

HELFAND: So how, when was it that your father told you?

JOHN POLLARD JR.: When I was about eighteen or nineteen I went to work out of high school and at that point I went to work for a big mill in town so, for Roger Milliken, and he was very specific about me not mentioning his name or me 00:28:00not being kin to him at that time. Roger Milliken is a big, powerful organization here in town, worldwide I believe. He said, "beware", so I did and I was.

HELFAND: Are you still?

JOHN POLLARD JR.: I guess I am, I guess I am. Maybe I won't be after today.

HELFAND: I'm going to ask you this on camera, we really are going to try to put this on television. (Pollard Jr. thumbs nose) So everybody is gonna to know who your daddy was.

JOHN POLLARD JR.: That's fine.

M1: (inaudible) audiotape.

HELFAND: Let's go for the last minute. Why is today different?

JOHN POLLARD JR.: To make you look at it, to face your past, look at it. Look at yourself in the mirror.

HELFAND: Do you mean recording with us?

JOHN POLLARD JR.: It just brings it out, bringing it up, talking about it.

HELFAND: Could you say that?

JOHN POLLARD JR.: The presence of you here today makes me look at things that happened in the past in particular my father mentioning to me not to mention his name. And –- I've always wondered why but today maybe I can say, "why not"? I have nothing to fear. It's just his, he had so much that I'm not aware of to be "beware of" that I do not need to be "beware of".

HELFAND: Did he have things that you could have been proud of?

JOHN POLLARD JR.: I'm sure, but a lot of things he did not share with me.

BROOKS POLLARD: He went to work at the post office in I guess in his fifties, but he looked all over town for a job and couldn't find one.

HELFAND: Why not?

BROOKS POLLARD: Why not did he not couldn't find one I don't know if the 00:30:00union had anything to do with it or not.

HELFAND: Do you have anything you want to ask your mama?

JOHN POLLARD JR.: No. Not that I haven't asked her a thousand times I guess.

HELFAND: Do you have anything to ask your daddy?

JOHN POLLARD JR.: No, I ask him every day, stuff -- you know.