Foots Weaver Interview



JUDITH HELFAND: Foots do you remember when we were inside and I said to you I want to know I want you to start out saying, "When I go into someone's house, this is how I talk it."

FOOTS WEAVER: "Well, let's talk about why you don't want in the union. Why don't you want in the union? That's what I would like to know. I'm not a-gonna ask you to join the union. I'm just asking you to help me out. Would you help a neighbor? Now if you're gonna help me out just a little bit, then I'll be in a position to where I can help you." "How can you help me?" I says, "Well, if I'm making a little bit more money, you're helping me, ain't 'che? And if I make a little bit more money, then you can probably get a-hold of some of my money, huh? If I've got a little extra there, wouldn't you like to have a little extra money? Well, if all of us stick together there, we got a big crowd. It's like the Army, the union is. And we get out there, we got something to fight with. A union's got something to fight with if we got enough 00:01:00-- enough backing there. Ammunition's what we want and tongue is the best ammunition in the world if you use it right, now. But you've got to use it right. You've got to use that tongue exactly right. Always right. And if you use it right, you're all right, but if you use it wrong you make enemies. And so I'm going in there and talk to them people about more money for you and me. That's what I'm going to talk about. How -- how am I going to get more money? You going to help me. (inaudible) Don't you want more money for what you do? And if you want more work for less money, we've got that."

GEORGE STONEY: Ok, hold on.

HELFAND: Stop for a second.

[break in video]

HELFAND: -- quick.

JAMIE STONEY: Gotta give the DEA boys something to do.

HELFAND: Wait tell me when.

M1: Yeah, I will.

JUDITH HELFAND: Talk to me about surveillance. Were there spies in the plant when you were trying to organize?

WEAVER: Well, the -- they was what you called spies. They was people that was ratting on us, and, ah, when -- I guess that's the reason why they thought I was the black sheep. They called me the black sheep down there. I guess that's the reason they called me the black sheep. I had quite a few that didn't like me. But I couldn't help it because they didn't like me. That's the way I was born, but if ye' got people that don't like you, they going to try to knock you some way. So a friend or an enemy, either one. Don't never try to explain to an enemy. A friend understands. An enemy wouldn't believe ye' (inaudible). Don't never do it. So a friend understands ye', but an enemy does not understand. He wouldn't believe ye', and that's the reason why ye' had rats on the job. You got somebody that'll pike on you. It don't matter what it is, they jealous of you.

GEORGE STONEY: Well, we know that when the NRA came in and you got 8 hours instead of 11 or 12 hours, you got more money. It also said you had the right to form a union. How did the straw bosses and the employers feel about your forming a union?

WEAVER: Well, they --

GEORGE STONEY: No, start--

HELFAND: You remember you need to mention the straw bosses in the process.

WEAVER: They had their own ideas --

GEORGE STONEY: No, start off –

WEAVER: Yeah

GEORGE STONEY: -- the straw bosses

WEAVER: They had their own ideas about what -- what they liked about the NRA. Well, they's some things I didn't like because they'd cut your wages down there to 12 bucks a hour -- 12 bucks a week, $2.40 a day. That was the limit then, that $2.40 a day. They took advantage of that. Any kinda law that was passed, 00:04:00they'as taking advantage of it and they knew how to do it. So they -- they'd guarantee you $2.40 a day, two dollars and forty cents a day, was $12 a week.

GEORGE STONEY: Now that was for everybody?

WEAVER: That was for everybody.

GEORGE STONEY: No, ok, let's start over and say that again, that when the NRA came in –

HELFAND: The company.

GEORGE STONEY: -- the company took that 12 dollars a day and made it the same for everybody.

WEAVER: Everybody.

GEORGE STONEY: Start again and say that.

WEAVER: (inaudible)

GEORGE STONEY: I'm sorry, I'm sorry--

WEAVER:(inaudible) 2 dollars more a week.

[break in video]

WEAVER: -- the company, you had to be extra good, you had to show (inaudible) job there--

HELFAND: Oh, ok, so I'm going to ask you now Foots--

WEAVER: Yeah.

HELFAND: When the NRA came in how did the-- what did the company do with the new codes from the NRA? And please mention the company when you explain the wage.

WEAVER: Well, on that NRA, they -- they, ah -- they come -- they come along there and found it unconstitutional. I don't know why they found it unconstitutional.

GEORGE STONEY: That was two years later.

WEAVER: Yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: That was two years later. So we want to start back and say the company when the NRA came –

[break in video]

HELFAND: Ok, start again.

GEORGE STONEY: When the NRA came in.

WEAVER: When the NRA come in, the company absolutely didn't like it because they was trying to tell them what they wanted to do. Okay. Sometimes nobody can't stand being bossed, because that is American belief. The pursuit of happiness is the way you and me live, under the pursuit of happiness. You got your way. I've got my ways. You got your thoughts, you got your belief. I've got my beliefs. You make your money, you got a right to spend it the way you 00:06:00want to. If I make my money, if I make it honest, I want to spend it the way I want to. It's nobody's business what you do as long as you're in the law, as you can provide --

HELFAND: (inaudible) money?

WEAVER: They didn't like to give me any more money. They didn't want to. You know, I's was the first 'un in the neighborhood to pay a dollar a hour here? I was the first 'un in the neighborhood to pay a dollar an hour, for labor. They'd come to me and told me that I was ruining labor here, but I had 'em on my side. I had 'em on my side. And I got the work out of 'em, too. And if I went out on a job and I had a hundred foot of ditch to dig, I had two men there, said, "Boys, when we get that done, I want it 8 inches deep or 10 inches deep or 12 inches deep, we can go home. If it's in 6 hours, you get 8 hours for it. If 00:07:00it's 5 hours or 2 hours, you get 8 hours for it. Don't worry about it." They got a couple of hours every time. We always left at two o'clock. That's the kind -- that's the kinds of guys that I like to work, somebody that'll work. I always like a guy would work. If he don't work, he don't eat. That's business.

[break in video]

WEAVER: I know -- I know in the fact that I had a cut coming there because I's making a little bit more than $12 a week in North Carolina. And when I went to work over there, they had me down there at $12 flat across the board. That was the cotton mill over there in North Carolina. Twelve dollars. I don't know why they didn't like it, but I didn't like it as much as they did. I didn't like 00:08:00it. I wanted to -- if you know something or other, sell it for all you can get out of it. If you got a college education, take two months there to take a salesman's education to sell that what you've learned.

GEORGE STONEY: Okay. Now after the strike, what happened to you? Just say after the strike and then tell me what happened.

WEAVER: Well, after the strike there, I went out on my own. I had to make jobs. Sometimes I -- I had plenty of time now to learn what I learned. I was a concrete finisher. I was a patcher on plasters. I was a roofer and I was a sheet metal man. I was a brick mason. Here's my brick around here to prove it, on this house to prove it. Finishing the concrete there on the porch to prove it. And I had plenty of time to learn on the other person because I wasn't eating 'em down in a dog's trough there and taking their money for nothing. I'd give 'em a dollar's worth for a dollar.

GEORGE STONEY: Okay. Now do you know why you had to leave the job? Explain that.

WEAVER: Why I had to leave down there? Well, Gorman called a nationwide strike and we come out there. I don't know what we was striking for. I never did find out what we was striking for and to this day I don't know what we struck for. But he called a nationwide strike there. Roosevelt said, "Put 'em back to work without discrimination." They didn't do it. There wasn't a one of 'em helped us back. They didn't send to the house (inaudible), "Your job's waiting on ye'." I wound up in North Carolina and when I come back here, I went out on my own. I made jobs for myself.

GEORGE STONEY: Now where did other people go who got blacklisted like you?

WEAVER: Well, some of 'em went to North Carolina --

GEORGE STONEY: Start--other people who got black listed.

WEAVER: Yeah, went to North Carolina--

GEORGE STONEY: No--start other people who got black listed.

WEAVER: That got blacklisted? Some of 'em went to Virginia, up in Virginia. I had one brother that went into Virginia. He stayed up there are -- out from Newport News there for 30-something years away from Knoxville. He was working for the Masons. He was looking after hospitals. Ever veteran that was in the Masons that had to go to the hospital, he seen whether that there (inaudible).

GEORGE STONEY: That's very important for us, so I want you to go back now and say, "After the strike all these people who got black listed went," and tell me the different places they went, don't go into detail about what happened to (inaudible)--

WEAVER: Well some of them went to work--

GEORGE STONEY: Uh, uh, uh

WEAVER:-- went to work with TVA.

GEORGE STONEY: Uh, sorry. After the strike

WEAVER: After the strike, after the nationwide strike, they went to work, some of 'em, for the TVA.

GEORGE STONEY: No we want to say after the nationwide strike lots of people got blacklisted and then tell what happened to them.

WEAVER: Well they had to--

GEORGE STONEY: No, no, "After the strike."

WEAVER: After the strike, they had to get out of town someplace where they wasn't known 'fore they could get a job -- after the strike. Now I -- I got outta town. Sometimes I was over in Virginia. I was over in North Carolina. I was up around (inaudible) Ridge, Virginia. I was on the road trying to sell some stuff. (inaudible) color your (inaudible), color you hair (inaudible) just like they'as a-living. I worked for a picture company enlarging pictures. That's what I was a-doing.

GEORGE STONEY: What did other people do?

WEAVER: Well, some of 'em went to work, just anything they could get their 00:12:00hands on, anything they could do.

GEORGE STONEY: Where did they go?

WEAVER: Some of 'em went to Georgia and some of 'em -- I know some of 'em went down to Canton, Georgia. Some of 'em went there and they couldn't find work in Canton on account of some of the cotton mill people there heard about 'em and they was blacklisted out -- I went to, oh, I don't know how many places. They'd just say, "They call you Foots?" "Yeah, they call me Foots." And I'd go. I'd turn around and walk out. I knowed what they was going to shoot at me, but I got -- I got gone. I didn't want to listen to it.

GEORGE STONEY: Now we've been told that Southern cotton mill people won't organize, they won't stick together. What do you say about that?

WEAVER: Oh, if you'll convince them, just convince 'em --

GEORGE STONEY: Just--

WEAVER: Just convince them

GEORGE STONEY: No, sorry--

WEAVER: Yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: You can't say them. "Just convince Southern cotton mill workers."

WEAVER: That, I don't believe. I'll believe they'll stick together.

GEORGE STONEY: No, no, sorry--

WEAVER: Yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: we don't know who they is you see.

WEAVER: Yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: So--

WEAVER: They say, you said to say that Southern cotton mill workers won't stick. I'll say they will. I'll say they will stick. They've got to stick if they get anything out of it, and that's the reason why they will stick. They've learnt -- they've learnt and they learn that everyday. People's learning everyday. They getting wiser. They getting to find out there and -- if you go in some of the places now and see what kind of prices they got. They got triples and doubles there. I know I can see it jumping. Every time I turn around, I can see the prices jump. And the know how to do it, too.

GEORGE STONEY: Now could you tell us about the attitude of the newspapers and the other people in Knoxville towards the strike and the textile workers?

WEAVER: Well, the newspapers is a good thing. I like the newspapers. You get a lot of opinions out of the newspapers. Sometimes you can read a letter to the editor and it makes a lot of sense there. Some of 'em -- I can read some of 'em and I get a laugh out of it, telling me about so-and-so and telling you about so-and-so. They got as much sense as a blind monkey at a horse race. He don't know whether he's running or banking up or trying to hang on his tail. But the newspaper, the newspaper is a good thing.

GEORGE STONEY: Now could you talk about Roosevelt?

WEAVER: Well, I can't say too much about Roosevelt, the first four years in there. He tried and he was working on theories. He tried and he done his best, but a theory don't work. The last four-six-eight years he was in there the last six years he was a sick man. Stalin over there took the country over there. He took the whole country. He took Europe. Whatever Stalin wanted, he got. We've been drawed into war after war by England. Mr. Churchill got us into that. Said, "Naw, they ain't nothing up there where them ships are going and where them turrets are going." They got blowed out of the water over there. Blowed out of the water, but he was sick --

GEORGE STONEY: Ok, now I want to talk about the end of the strike. Gorman called off the end of the strike and called it a great victory. What do you say to that?

WEAVER: He lost -- he lost everything there was.

GEORGE STONEY: Okay just say Gorman lost.

WEAVER: Gorman lost everything. Everything that we fought for, he lost it right there by calling that strike. He had no business calling that strike, because we'as working there smoothly along and increasing. Every day we lived, we'as increasing the membership there. We was taking 'em in. And the first thing you know, we'd have been 100% down there. Well, we stopped off and he called it about 80%, had about 80%.

GEORGE STONEY: Could you have continued? Could people afford to eat? WEAVER: Well, yes. Down there, it was man and wife working. One of 'em died last week. Both of 'em working down there (inaudible) Walker, one of the big grocerymen, his sister died last week. She worked down there, Sally and him. But they had 00:17:00a big farm down there below Calico Plains-- or this side of Calico Plains. And they moved down there after that strike. They had to go back to the farm.

GEORGE STONEY: Now the -- Gorman called off the strike on the 21st and people said, "He called it a great victory and yet people got blacklisted." Did you feel cheated?

WEAVER: Well, yes, I -- I was cheated there. I was cheated, awful bad cheated because a little guy setting up there a-drawing big wages a-telling us to come out on a strike to lose our jobs, and us had a family. He was still drawing his big fat check and us out there trying to fight trying to organize. And he was 00:18:00still drawing.

GEORGE STONEY: Now back to the strike just a minute, did you have any people from away who came in and helped you organize?

WEAVER: Well, yes, we had people to come in and help us out. They come in there and helped us out. But they was strangers in town. They couldn't help too much, but they helped what they could. We got a lot of sympathy, we did, but sympathy didn't put no bread on the table. It don't never put anything in a kid's mouth, sympathy don't.

GEORGE STONEY: Now I understand that in a lot of places in Tennessee the organizers got beat up and there was a lot of intimidation. Could you talk about that?

WEAVER: Well, I went over in Appalachia, Virginia and they was trying to 00:19:00organize up there, some miners was. That was 1935. I was picturing around at that time. I couldn't take a talking picture, but I almost made it talk. We was trying to organize that mining place up there over in Harlan, Kentucky, over across the mountain. Well, they finally organized and they finally got some of 'em over there, and some of 'em went in over there and joined the union in Appalachia, Virginia. And they got the charter over that at Harlan. And Harlan's a little rough, too. Harlan, Kentucky's a rough town.

GEORGE STONEY: Was there any rough stuff around here?

WEAVER: Well, yes, a little bit, not too much. Just a little bit. Sometimes you'd come face to face and hand to hand with 'em. I had one guy to come out to 00:20:00my house and he asked me, said did I call him a bad name. And I said, "Naw. I just called you what you was, a scab." And that was it. And he turned around and walked off. I said, "That's all I said now. You're just a scab." I didn't put no great big long name to it.

GEORGE STONEY: What about clubs and guns?

WEAVER: Well, we had -- we had one -- one law down there and I worked for him. He's the first person I ever worked for, and a constable. He was a constable. I took him up and down the colored people down there. We called 'em "colored folks" back then. They want to be called "black people" now. And, ah, we had some good friends in the colored neighborhood down there and I got him elected. And that's one of the first guys went inside there to guard Cherokee Cotton Mill.

GEORGE STONEY: Okay. Talk about Lucille Thornburgh.

WEAVER: Lucille -- Lucille Thornburgh is one of the finest persons I ever seen to work with, one of the best. She knows what she's doing and she's been in there where she's had experience and she knows exactly what the people thinks about, because she gets around and she knows how to question anybody to find out what they feel and how they feel about a question or what they're doing.

GEORGE STONEY: Now we know that after you got on the picket line two or three days, they got an injunction out. Could you talk about that injunction?

WEAVER: Well, that injunction was there. It was unconstitutional and we proved it was unconstitutional there. We was crowding a little bit. They cut us down 00:22:00there on line and we didn't have as many people as we did to start with because everybody was interested that come out on the strike to be on the picket line. And it was a little hard to get 'em right back three or four on the picket lines. That made it hard, but when you cut maybe 75 or 100 off of the picket line there and cut 'em down that low, then they get lonesome and they get worried. And that's what that company wanted. The company you work for, that's what they want.

GEORGE STONEY: How do you-- How did you think they got that injunction?

WEAVER: Well, you know, sometimes politics goes a long ways. I've worked both 00:23:00ends against the middle. I guess you know -- don't never believe a politician because he's lying to ye' to start with.

GEORGE STONEY: Ok, alright.

WEAVER: If he can't lie, he can't make a go. He's gonna promise you everything in the world and he's making promises there you know he's lying about it because it takes a whole bunch of 'em down there to pass the laws. And they tried this here milk business in Tennessee and this whiskey business -- [break in video]

GEORGE STONEY: -- about that.

WEAVER: What?

GEORGE STONEY: The company got a bunch of their guards deputized during the strike.

WEAVER: Well, they didn't get but about five of 'em deputized. There was five of 'em.

GEORGE STONEY: Start again and say who got deputized.

WEAVER: Well, you didn't know who they was. You didn't know who they was.

GEORGE STONEY: I'm sorry, let's start again.

WEAVER: Yeah. Well that's what I'm talking about.

GEORGE STONEY: Let's start. I'm sorry I have to interrupt you. Now about the deuputizing.

WEAVER: On the deputizing, I couldn't name 'em. I wouldn't know who to name because they kept it under their shirt.

GEORGE STONEY: What connection did you people have with what was happening at Alcoa and what did happen at Alcoa?

WEAVER: In Alcoa over there? Well, we didn't have too much going over there. I was steward over there at Alcoa on that north plant. I was field steward. We had 'em over there when they'd come in there on a permit and work, and it was my job to go around and get 10 bucks until they paid out on their initiation fee and then collect their dues if they'as behind with their dues. And they got ever dollar of it over there on the haul on Friday night that I'd collect, 00:25:00because I attended the union hall, Local Number 50, ever Friday night.

GEORGE STONEY: Now we've been told that during that early strike, somebody ran off with -- some union official ran off with some money. Could you talk about that?

WEAVER: Yes. A fella by the name of Bill Bates from Alabama come down there. He was a little short guy. You've heared of Shovel Bill Cats, ain't ye'? Well, they said he caught a catfish that long. That's Bill and all. The bill was that long and the catfish that long. Did you ever fish in one of them Alabama springs down there? That's the boy from Birmingham over there. Where's he at?

(laughter)

GEORGE STONEY: Alright let's go back and talk about that. Just say that during that first--somebody ran off with some of the money.

WEAVER: Yeah. Well, that was Bill Bates. I didn't care to tell you his name.

GEORGE STONEY: Ok. You don't' have to tell me his name. But we've heard a lot of rumors about that. And people say that's why I didn't like the union cause someone ran off with the money.

WEAVER: Well, it was our fault. That was our fault. We elected him. We elected him –

GEORGE STONEY: Sorry--start off and say, "This guy, uh the union official that ran off with the money was our fault.

WEAVER: That union official run off with our money, it wasn't out fault -- it was our fault because we elected him and we didn't check on him. We didn't put him under a bond. So he had a right there to run off with it. He just thought we'd give him that money, I guess. If I'd have run off with it, that's what I'd said, "They give it to me."

GEORGE STONEY: Now how did that happen?

WEAVER: Well, it happened one weekend. He took off one weekend. He had two 00:27:00days there to get lost. It wasn't much there. It was $500, a little better than $500. He wasn't no rich man.

GEORGE STONEY: Now you were saying inside the house that that first strike proved that there was a lot of strength for the union. Could you explain what you meant? And remember you want my question in your answer.

WEAVER: Well, that first strike down there in 19-and-33, we had the weave room closed down. We didn't ask the card room, didn't ask the spinning room, and we didn't ask the winding room to come out with us. We knew the weave room would close the mill down, because when they filled the bobbins they didn't have any more bobbins to put the yarn on. And that's about two days there to fill the bobbin's up there on the roping in the spinning room. So they had to close it 00:28:00down. So we won there on that first 'un.

GEORGE STONEY: How did that make you feel?

WEAVER: Well, we felt good about it. Ever-- the whole -- whole crowd of the weavers felt good about it because we had won 10% there -- well, we won 20 1/2% there. And I talked 'em into going back for 10% until we could get another dime. That give us about 20 1/2% there.

GEORGE STONEY: Now do you think that union means more than just wages and hours?

WEAVER: Well --

GEORGE STONEY: Just remember you want to put my question in your answer.

WEAVER: A union should mean more than just more money. It should mean a pride 00:29:00on your work. It should mean that. They've abused the union so bad that they can get back with anything now. You see, you got discrimination in there. You can't work that. That won't work. If I don't work, I don't need no -- I don't need no job. If I can't work, I ought to go to the hospital. And people ought to have to put me in the hospital that is a-working if I have to go, if I'm not able to pay for it.

GEORGE STONEY: Well now, do you think that people were striking for because of the way they'd been treated by the supervisors?

WEAVER: No. They was starved down there on account of that --

GEORGE STONEY: Just, just say, " I don't think its because of the way treated by the supervisors but--"

WEAVER: I don't think it was the supervisors, no. It was absolutely the 40% that we was cut down there, that they was cut so much that there wasn't no halfway of living there because it took half of the pay away from us. You take 00:30:0040%, well, it'll average half of it.

GEORGE STONEY: Now what was your toughest opposition when you were trying to form the union and, remember, you want to put my question in your answer.

WEAVER: Well, when we was trying to form a union down there, we'd have to explain to 'em what would be the advantage of the union and what they would do to specify to be a union man. It's like the guy that -- the old guy that works all of his life and went in the union and explain to him. He says, "George," says, "you're in the union now." Says, "Everything you do is -- comes under the union"