Cynthia Haynes and Mill Workers Interview 2

 BONNIE: -- in '34.

BOB: The only thing I know my mother was working here and she honored the picket line. She would not cross it. And they was off on strike a good while. I do know this for a fact, as a young boy, two of the fellows crawled over the fence cause (inaudible) locked the gate. When the strike started two of the fellows crawled over the fence and went in the plant. He sent in the plant put back out the fence.

BONNIE: They crawled over to go to work?

BOB: Yeah.

BONNIE: That's unbelievable.

LEWIS: And did he --

BOB: I knowed that happened.

LEWIS: Do you know the purpose and the reason why he locked the so people couldn't get in?

BOB: No I do not know. All I know is that he did lock the gate and a man crawled over the fence and went in and told me he did. And said they come in and put him back out.

LEWIS: In –-

BOB: (inaudible)

LEWIS: In the 1934 strike can you remember how things was in the household? You 00:01:00was a kid and how things was? Did things get pretty tough? As far as meeting the needs of groceries and etcetera?

BOB: Well no not really. Uh I admire Claude Morris, for he was a good man. And I know for a fact that when had controlling stock in Salisbury Mill, if a family, in fact it happened to my family, was out sick he would send groceries from the company store to your house and never say a word about it. I've seen that happen and know it happened. He was a good man.

LEWIS: What about -- do you know what initiated or why the purpose and the reason people went out on strike in '34? Do you know?

BOB: No.

LEWIS: You can't remember that?

BOB: No.

LEWIS: Okay.

BOB: I had an aunt and uncle -- my aunt and mother both worked there when it was going on.

LEWIS: But you can't remember the reasons --

BOB: No.

LEWIS: -- of what really pushed people to the point of striking?

BOB: No.

GEORGE STONEY: Were they in the union?

BOB: No I don't think my mother and aunt was in the union. But they honored the picket line and would not cross it. And uh --

GEOGRE STONEY: I wonder if each of you could just go around start with you and tell us when you first started hearing about unions, whether you heard it in the schools, what's your history about unions?

BOB: Well I don't even remember when I first heard about a union? I guess it was back then, I really didn't know what it was or what was going on. I knew my mother and them was on strike and they didn't go to work.

LEWIS: Mary? Your knowledge of a union your first knowledge?

MARY: Well I think it was um probably back in the early '60s. You know, school days and stuff like that. I probably hear about it on the radio or TV. And no I was not familiar with it or what the purpose was not really? I just wasn't 00:03:00into that…

F1: Well I say about '65 when I first hear about a strike. I didn't know what a strike was. I just thought they was striking at something, you know? But now I really understand what it's all about.

F2: You can guess.

F3: When I started work, I started hearing stuff about unions, strikes and stuff.

LEWIS: when you first started work here or somewhere else?

F3: Somewhere else, (inaudible) mill.

LEWIS: Okay.

F3: I heard about unions, strikes and all that, but what it were I didn't know.

LEWIS: Okay

GEORGE STONEY: Did you have any reason to be afraid of it?

F3: Afraid of unions? No I wasn't afraid, I just didn't know what it was.

F4: When I worked at Cannon I heard about some mill strike but I didn't know what it was (inaudible)

LEWIS: Your knowledge-- Were you there when they tried to organize Cannon in the early '70s, in '70 and '85?

F4: I was here.

LEWIS: You was here then.

F4: Mmm-hmm

LEWIS: Okay.

F4: (inaudible)

BONNIE: I was. The first time I heard about unions I guess, I heard my dad talk about them. And then I went to work at Cannon Mills.

(coughing)

GEORGE STONEY: Lets go back and tell me what your dad said about unions.

BONNIE: Uh, well I don't really remember exactly what he would say about 'em. He would say something like, uh --

GEORGE STONEY: Start again and say your daddy.

BONNIE: Okay. I remember my daddy talking about unions and I don't really remember exactly what he'd say. I know he would come in and say you know certain unions are on strike or whatever. I didn't understand it. And then when I went to work in Cannon Mills in '73 they were running an organizing campaign. And I was into it and wanted to find out what it was all about so I 00:05:00got interested in and stayed with it. They—the union wasn't voted in and I was threatened for being active in it and all. My supervisor called me into the office, and told me, "You're gonna be fired." I said "Well fire me. Fire me now." And then when I come to work here, first thing I did was sign a card. And I really didn't get active until I had to file a grievance. And then I really got active then. I'm a shop steward, and last year I run for vice president. And I won that and I believe in it.

GEORGE STONEY: What gave you the courage to tell you shop—your boss that?

BONNIE: When out back in in '73? Bob Freemen, one of the organizers, he told us what our rights were. You know, if he – I believed him and if he tells me this is your right to do this, the man didn't have a reason to lie to me, you know. And it's something I believed in so. I don't know what I've done if they fired me, go crying to Bob I guess. "They fired me." But they 00:06:00didn't. They just told us you can't hand out this literature, and then I told him when I could. You know, I can on break time, in the restrooms and things like that. He just kinds shut up. But they watched me. I mean they looked for me to make mistakes, but I made sure I didn't.

GEORGE STONEY: Okay, you sir?

LEWIS: Yes, my first knowledge of the union was in my early teens. My father was always a supporter of organized labor and this was in the late '60s. From then I didn't know anything—I never heard a lot about it in school. They didn't teach a lot about it schools in the southern –- uh schools which was predominantly black at that time before segregation. Then after I got up to a teen I started to working, started to hearing about unions. And somewhat got involved with through the media and radio somewhat to that nature. And when I went to work and left North Carolina and went to work in Alexandria Virginia, I 00:07:00stayed in Washington DC and I joined the Teamsters there, and I was nineteen at that time. And I got familiar with the union at that point in time. And when I moved back South in '72, I started being involved with the union very little bits and pieces of it about Cone. And then in '79 I become very active in and have been very active since. And that was my knowledge of the unions at this point.

GEORGE STONEY: Now, a lot of the white people who've been in unions have heard from their parents and grandparents that a lot of people got in trouble in the '30s and don't want to have anything to do with it. Your people didn't have a chance to be in the union, in textiles until the '60s. Do you think that's made a difference in the response of Blacks against Whites in the union?

LEWIS: Um if, if I follow your question correctly, yes I think that has an impact on it because –-

GEORGE STONEY: Explain what you're talking about.

LEWIS: What I'm talking about is the difference between the black per say, more or less movement toward the union movement versus the whites. And in the early 19th century, what I'm saying is 1938, and '40s and '50s, blacks were not allowed to work in certain particular parts of the mills, in certain jobs definitely which we're aware of. And I believe now, since the '60s and the '70s blacks have had an opportunity to come and, you know, seek other opportunities, other jobs and that has made a difference. And possibly have some degree of effect on the black/white racial balance in the unions. Yes I do believe that.

CYNTHIA HAYNES: Well I never heard of a union until I came to work at Cone Mills. And when I came to work here I knew there was a union here, but you didn't see any union activity. You didn't have anybody go to if you had a 00:09:00problem, but we did work under a contract. And the union started activity around 1979, I think it was. And I got involved in the union then. I got involved in it but I really didn't understand it then. You know I'd get mad and say well "I'm getting out of that union. They're not doing anything for me." You know, so I'd get out of the union, a little while later I'd get back in. About two years ago Brenda's husband, came to me and asked me to run for an office cause they'd had a vacancy. And so I got active then. And now, you know, I've been going to negotiations and a lot of different things, and I really see what a union's doing. And I'm in here to stay. You know, it's a good thing.

GEORGE STONEY: Alright just, okay.

F5: Well I didn't hear that much about a union when I was small except I 00:10:00did know that my daddy did work at (inaudible) Company, which was a union. And I'm like Bonnie, I come to work here at Cone Mills. I didn't—I joined the union, but I didn't get involved until I had a grievance. That's when I started getting active. And that's when I started learning, you know, our rights and what we could do. And you know, like the rest of y'all I believe in it and I'm gonna stick to it, and that's it. I just, something you know that's in me.

GEORGE STONEY: Okay.

[break in video]

(Sound of newsreel)

GEORGE STONEY: Okay, could you tell us -- start telling them what they're gonna see and then will start it.

HAYNES: Okay, this film is about the strike, strikes in Georgia in 1934.

GEORGE STONEY: This is all over the country in 1934, and this happens to be scene from Gastonia on Labor Day.

HAYNES: Oh, okay.

GEORGE STONEY: Start again.

HAYNES: Tell them about this first?

GEORGE STONEY: Just tell them about the strike, the '34 strike all over the country, and go see some scenes from the South and this is Labor Day in Gastonia.

LEWIS: North Carolina right?

F: (inaudible)

HAYNES: We're gonna see some footage, it was taken from the 1934 strike, all over the South. But first we're gonna see a film of the Labor Day parade in Gastonia.

(Sound of the newsreel)

VOICE ON NEWSREEL: Ladies and gentlemen and Fellow Workers! (inaudible) the Parkdale Mill. We come over here this morning to help you get a better 00:13:00condition (inaudible) Manufacturing Company, which is one of the same chain of mills as this. Parkdale, there's a few of you people here that belongs to this organization, and we want you to join and set you up a union local here. I know you can have a good union local. We just talked to the superintendent, he first told us to wait till two o'clock (inaudible). And the people voted one hundred percent to (inaudible) (cheering) I went back --

JAMIE STONEY : I can't hear a word they're saying.

VOICE ON NEWSREEL: I went back from another conference with the superintendent, 00:14:00and he asked me how long we'd get him to (inaudible). Which we replied if we have to give up (inaudible). Because we want to work again. But we want better conditions when we work again. (cheering) I told him we'd get him time to take the weight off of his rollers (inaudible), and he's asked me if we can give him till ten o'clock. That's what he did. He said he'd stop off at ten o'clock. (cheering)

GEORGE STONEY: Some more scenes around the mill here. (inaudible conversation)

(Cheering on newsreel)

GEORGE STONEY: This in front of what's now the Firestone plant.

BONNIE: In Gastonia?

GEORGE STONEY: I've got stop it just a moment. Trying to get it to stop. Now just a moment let me get something on the screen. Uh, this is not working at a 00:17:00distance. Sorry. Okay now.

HAYNES: Ok what we're about to see is about what's called the flying squadrons. I want everybody to understand at this time people were so afraid of management in the plant, that they were afraid to do anything on their own. So they got a bunch of people together and went around to other plants and got people out of the other plants so they could all join together. And that's how they formed the flying squadrons.

GEORGE STONEY: Let me see if I can get this thing moving again. (inaudible) long range.

(Sound of newsreel)

VOICE ON NEWSREEL: (inaudible). And he was willing to stand—willing to sit down (inaudible).

GEORGE STONEY: Going ahead just a moment.

(Sound on newsreel)

LEWIS: Did they walk?

(Sound on newsreel)

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah they walked a long time.

VOICE ON NEWSREEL: The great textile strike spreads. Here are typically scenes in Gastonia North Carolina. (cheering on newsreel) With the total on strike nearing half a million over 200,000 are out in the Southern states, where already lives have been lost and many wounded. At first accounts of bloodshed in the Carolinas and Georgia, President Roosevelt appointed a special mediation board in an effort to end growing disorder. Mass meetings and strike orators 00:21:00help to fan the flame. (inaudible) A (inaudible) of mills lie idle in lower Massachusetts with the workers crowding the streets. Police stand guard in dozens of cities throughout New England –

[break in video]

VOICE ON NEWSREEL: -- The crisis is growing graver as these films were issued, Federal intervention brought hope of restoring peace.

GEORGE STONEY: You notice that the newsreels were very much (inaudible) notice that?

BONNIE: I did.

GEORGE STONEY: Talk about that.

BONNIE: They make it look like the unions are the bad guys and we're in there 00:22:00causing problems. Like there are not problems there to start with, but we're looking for problems.

HAYNES: Yeah there not showing what it was like for all these people to work at these textile mills.

BONNIE: That's it.

GEORGE STONEY: That's what those people faced then, do you face anything like that now?

HAYNES: Well we face something to that extent. Not what they were facing as far as the company being the ruler, but we face problems like that now with management. Of course we have a procedure to go through with the grievance procedure.

LEWIS: But the difference now versus then, is that it was more, back then I think it was more or less physical and hostile type atmosphere. But the company now has become more I would say, I would say professional in dealing with these problems. They keep it more suppressed and they only show— they give you a, I would say the oh, you know the (inaudible) approach where they 00:23:00come in and play up to you and yet there still doing the same things in a different more complicated I would say more sophisticated manner than they did back then. That's the difference. Primary the same things is going on. But it's more or less undercover or as publicized as it was then.

GEORGE STONEY: What kind of –- what kind of coverage do you get in the newspapers and magazines and television?

HAYNES: Now? We don't get any coverage hardly now. You know we kind of feel like as far Cone Mills is concerned they have the media bought off. Cause it more or less goes, it all goes their way.

LEWIS: But --

HAYNES: Go ahead.

LEWIS: We have had some pretty positive reports coming out of Charlotte and Greensboro. We have some pretty liberal or straight forward approaches in dealing with the things we are dealing with now. Such as the struggle that we have here in dealing with insurance fights and pension (inaudible) and employee 00:24:00stock ownership plans. The media has now begun to show some changes in their ways of not totally anti-union, and more or less becoming more mutual. Some reporters but not all of them. We still, we feel like get the short end of the stick but some liberalization to it.

HAYNES: We did have, what was that professor or somebody wrote an article? You remember that, Lewis?

LEWIS: No I can't remember the guy's name, but we have had some positive ones where you know, we have had some positive ones about –-

HAYNES: It might have been Duke University or something like that.

LEWIS: Yeah.

HAYNES: We have had an article about the union.

LEWIS: So it's improved somewhat but we still got along ways to go.

BONNIE: What do you think Bob?

BOB: What's that? (inaudible)

BONNIE: About the differences you know—

GEORGE STONEY: Just hold it just a moment. We have to shift the camera a little bit.

LEWIS: The media coverage versus—media coverage now versus media coverage --

BONNIE: I feel that it was all just about negative. In other words the unions are the bad guys. Do you –- what do think is different now?

BOB: Well now the media does sometimes come along and help the unions at times. I mean in their fights and in like you said some reporters are altogether different. They don't go with you.

LEWIS: Do you look at that Bob, in your overall experience in working in textile do you see that as a change from then till now? What's the difference?

BOB: Well I can't tell whether there is any difference, really.

LEWIS: Okay. Anybody else? Nothing?

JUDITH HELFAND: I wonder if Joanne, Cindy and Bonnie, could you all ask Bob, since he's lived here all these years, if the union has always been so visible? Because right now your plum right across the street from the mills. 00:26:00I'm wondering if you could talk about where you are situated, and visibility with Bob?

LEWIS: And Bob also touched on earlier in our conversation that this place burnt down once right?

BOB: Yes.

LEWIS: And maybe you could tell us about that?

BOB: This was a company store at one time and it burnt down one time. It holl -- it hollowed out, it didn't completely burn down and they rebuilt it. A long time ago, probably, she was gonna ask me, about '54, I was in the union. Now I cannot be union, I am non-bargaining.

LEWIS: Mmm-hmm

BOB: But you'll find I'm as fair and honest as they come, and I was in union. And I was in a strike in '54. I did stand at the gate and show the people how I felt. Some of my friends was hollering and calling people names, scabs and things like that, and I didn't agree with that. I told them, "We 00:27:00gotta work with them, we gotta win them in our way. You'll do more standing here letting them know you're dissatisfied with the conditions, just standing here silently seeing them doing thing they shouldn't, than to call them names." I said, "You're gonna make enemies. You'll win them quicker if you're silent and let them know how you feel."

BONNIE: Did it work? Did you have more people on the picket lines?

BOB: We had more people that joined the union back then. But our union wasn't very strong. We didn't have a meeting place really and it wasn't very strong. Pete, I forgot the boy's name was the representative of the union. Pete somebody.

BRENDA: Brandon.

LEWIS: Brandon

BOB: Brandon it was.

LEWIS: Pete Brandon?

BOB: Yup.

BRENDA: Can I ask a question?

BOB: Sure.

BRENDA: Well okay, Bob at that time what was your union dues at that time?

BOB: Um, I don't even remember Brenda, honestly. I paid union dues but I don't even remember. And they would not take them out of your pay, you had to 00:28:00take them out yourself.

BRENDA: Mmm.

LEWIS: So like a (inaudible) system, where you come around? A hand due system, collection. That's what it was?

BOB: Yes.

BRENDA: Did you like the union at that time Bob?

BOB: Well I believed in it, I was rank and file. I sit down and talk to Mr. Cone just like I'd talk to you.

HAYNES: We feel like we're pretty active right now, do you –- Bob do you think the union has ever been this active?

BOB: No.

HAYNES: Even in the '50s when you had the strike?

BOB: No, we wasn't strong back then. But I see you're active now. See I'm kind of biased, I'm non bargaining, I cannot belong to the union, but I think you'll see I do believe in union. I did tell you that my wages started raising when the union came.

F4: (clears throat) Excuse me. Since y'all didn't have a place to meet, what did y'all do? Meet in each other's' homes? Different homes?

BOB: Well we met in different places yes.

LEWIS: Was that design or just because you didn't have a place to meet? Were you afraid of, -- we're talking of earlier the union is now more visible -- were you afraid to meet publically or?

BOB: No, now I don't know about the others but you'll find out I've been afraid of no body or nothing. I was in World War II. Come out of World War II work in a bakery. Quit the bakery job come to work at Cone Mills. And I have talked to supervisors, I've talked to Clarence Cone, and expressed my views. I've never been afraid of nobody and right now I'm not afraid of nobody. You see I've worked all my life and I'm old enough to retire, should've done retired.

F: (inaudible)

BOB: But I haven't.

LEWIS: What about your co-workers back then versus now? Does it—in your opinion is there more fear when you mention union or in the South predominantly there has you know unions have been more or less not able to come out and people the tendency of being fearful of the union. Due to the company and the bad publicity and the bad things that they hear. Do you think people are more open now than they were back in those --

BOB: Yes.

LEWIS: -- days.

BOB: They're more open. They're standing up for their rights.

LEWIS: Okay. So back --