Lloyd Gossett Interview 2

TONE

GEORGE STONEY: Ready?

JAMIE STONEY: Yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: Action!

GEORGE STONEY: Cut, just move quickly over to the other place.

[break in video]

GEORGE STONEY: Alright sir, when we say go just examine your dahlia and (inaudible).

LLOYD GOSSET: Ok.

GEORGE STONEY: Action! Examine your dahlia here . Look at your dahlia.

GOSSET: Oh, I'm going to pull it.

GEORGE STONEY: OK

(Traffic sounds, door slamming)

GEORGE STONEY: Action. Just open the door.

(Doors opening and closing and birdsong)

JAMIE STONEY: Can we do once more?

GEORGE STONEY: Ok one more, and after you close the door go on back into the house.

GOSSET: Ok.

JAMIE STONEY: Ok any time.

GEORGE STONEY: Ok.

(wildsound)

[break in video]

GEORGE STONEY: -- when you first started in the mills.

GOSSET: I believe it was around September of 1933. It might have been in August, but I believe in was in September, first part of September in '33, I went to work in the textile mill. Ah, my brother went to work there before I did. He's dead now. My other brother, younger than me --

GEORGE STONEY: Stop it just a moment. I want you to start over again—

[break in video]

JAMIE STONEY: One second, ok.

GOSSET: I went to work, I believe it was, in the early part of September of '33. It could have been the last part of August. And my brother asked me to come over there, that they had an opening, and I went over there and got a job.

GEORGE STONEY: What was it like in the mills?

GOSSET: Hot, like -- like on the desert.

GEORGE STONEY: Just start, you gotta get my question in your answer. The mills were hot.

GOSSET: The mill was hot as it could be. There was no air condition or nothing like that, lint flying all over, and you couldn't hardly breathe and get your breath. And, ah, as things went along, the company added more work to us and I, being one of the best educated persons in my department, they elected me shop steward, and then shop committeeman, and then we had an election. We lost it because we didn't take in the colored people. The company told colored people, "See? They won't let you sign a union card. If the union comes in, all you colored people are going to lose your jobs." We had the election and lost it. There's 120-25 colored people solid votes against us. So we lost the election. 00:05:00That was the UGW (inaudible) -- ETWAFL. And, ah, ah, Joe Jacobs was our representative. He wasn't the state director. He just worked part-time. He was an attorney, too, going to law school or just getting his law degree.

GEOGRE STONEY: Now what did the colored do in the mills at that time?

GOSSET: They did all the nasty hard labor work -- unloading the trucks, cleaning out the restrooms, sweeping the floors, blowing off. Everything that was nasty and dirty that the white people wouldn't want or didn't want, they gave it to the colored people and it was the lowest paying jobs there was.

GEORGE STONEY: What was the pay?

GOSSET: 15 cents an hour.

GEORGE STONEY: No, no, you want to say the pay was 15 cents an hour, ok.

GOSSET: The -- the pay was 15 cents an hour. For 40% of the jobs in the plant it was 15 cents an hour. The doffers got more than that. The weavers got more 00:06:00than than. The boom fixers got more than that. The skilled labor they took the -- but people out of the street sweeping floors, blowing off and hauling and so forth got fifteen cents an hour. Dollar-and-twenty cents a day, 6 dollars for 5 days' work, 40 hours. No time and half time, no double time, no benefits whatsoever. And they wanted to -- you had to come to work every day and if they work you, they work you and they sent you home and you got no reporting pay.

GEORGE STONEY: When did you first start forming a union?

GOSSET: They was already forming a union when I went there in '33. Joe Jacobs was already contacted and some of 'em had done signed cards when I went to work there in '33, but they hadn't had an election. They had -- a foreman organizing committee to see if they'd get enough people to sign cards to get an election. And they didn't give any of the colored people cards at all. And so you had a director of the company come out and said, "See? They don't even ask you to 00:07:00sign, so we're going to have to fire you if the union comes in."

GEORGE STONEY: Now what happened when the NRA came in?

GOSSET: When the NRA come in, the company says, "We going to have to close up. We going to have to abolish half your jobs. You're going to do twice as much work because went from 15 cents an hour to 33-and-a-third cents an hour." They called it the Blue Eagle, the NRA under Roosevelt. And, ah, they'd fine a little later on, a year or so later it was ruled that it was illegal, but we got paid for it and we sure appreciated going from $6 to $13.20.

GEORGE STONEY: Well, then if you went from $6 to $13.20, why the big strike of '34?

GOSSET: Well, ah, ah, the NRA was ruled illegal and the company -- we struck in '34 because of the -- not because of the NRA, but because a lot of the companies would double up your work and you had to do two jobs with one, and you didn't 00:08:00get regular work. They'd work you Monday and lay you off Tuesday and make you report three days a week and only get -- six days a week and get three days' work, and you couldn't make a decent living just working three days a week. And sometimes you didn't even get but two days or one day a week.

GEORGE STONEY: Could you describe the stretch out, using that term, "the stretch out"?

GOSSET: Well, they'd come -- I'll use the weave room for one instance, where you was running two hand looms, ah, looms and throwing it back and forth, they put you on four hand looms. Well, you had to walk out here and then run them two over there and these two and you's running four instead of two. In other words, they doubled your workload. You had no time to rest, to go to the restroom, eat, get a drink of water, nothing. And you couldn't even keep three going, less four.

GEORGE STONEY: In a previous tape you described the restrooms. Could you do that again?

GOSSET: Well, the restrooms, the men's was here and the ladies' was right next to it. And they had a awful odor and they was filthy and always wet where somebody urinated on the floor or something. And they'd mop 'em up and if you didn't watch careful, you'd slip and break your neck. If the floor was slick and you had rubber shoes on or something, kind of concrete floor, slick concrete floor, and it get wet it was real slippery. And it stunk, oh, just like a dead cat or dog.

GEORGE STONEY: Ah, now could you tell us about the strike of '34?

GOSSET: Well, the strike of '34 was called -- I forgot what day. It's been so long ago. But, anyhow, it was called and we had what we call had runners out to tell 'em when to shut down at different times because we didn't have time at one time. And we sat down like in Newnan, Georgia and Atlanta trying to head down at the same time. And then we went to Columbus, Georgia, West Point, 00:10:00Georgia and Egan Cotton Mills and Fulton Bag Cotton Mills and Exposition Cotton Mills, Hampton Mills in Hampton, Georgia, and we had to pass word around. Very few of us had automobiles back in those days.

GEORGE STONEY: Now you're talking about the flying squadrons, are you?

GOSSET: Yes, sir.

GEORGE STONEY: Using that term "the flying squadrons," what do you think about him?

GOSSET: Well, the flying squadron was one that carried the message and give support where it's needed. The flying squadron was the person who had a car and -- and, ah, he would carry -- where the picket line was weak or would need some help, he'd carry a load of men there to help support the picket line, help the ladies where they had ladies fill in on the picket line, and -- and pass the word on in different mills. The flying squadron was called "flying squadron" 00:11:00because it stayed on the go 24 hours a day.

GEORGE STONEY: Could you talk about the role of women in the strike?

GOSSET: Well, the women was just as good as the men. Ah, ah, the women was solid as the men were because the company had mistreated the ladies worse than they had the men, because they made some of the ladies quit nursing the children and come back to work early or they'd lose their job or have to move out of mill village.

GEORGE STONEY: Could you talk about the mill village and evictions?

GOSSET: Well, the mill village was right at work. If you lived in the mill village, you got cheap rent. The mill rented houses cheaper and kept the best help -- they'd give the best help to the people that lived in the mill village because they wanted them to stay there. And it was cheaper rent and the lights, water -- some of 'em had lights, some had water, and some of 'em had a well out in the back and 8 houses would use the same well. Ah, and some of 'em had a running faucet on the back porch and when it froze it'd freeze up and they 00:12:00didn't have any running water and it'd break. And it was just awful -- no inside plumbing, no inside water. Nobody had water in the house. The water was out the well and the well was behind four houses on one street and four the other, one well for 8 houses. They had -- some of 'em had running water in a water faucet like you put a hose on in the back porch and they had to go out on the back porch when they got -- wanted a drink of water or wanted water to boil or something.

GEORGE STONEY: Now when people stuck, did the company evict them from the houses? Could you talk about that?

GOSSET: The company did everything it could. It give notice to people that struck. Majority of them that struck did not live in company houses. They lived outside the company houses and a few of 'em, not over 50% of 'em that lived in the company's houses, we called them "scabs." And they got -- went and got their brothers and sisters that lived out on the farm and brought 'em in to 00:13:00make like they're producing. They wasn't producing a damned thing. They didn't know a -- a warp from, ah, ah, ah, a loom or, ah, ah, ah -- I forget the name -- jacquard loom or draper loom or carding machine, ah, ah, or anything like that. They just come in and stood around and watched what men -- he had two or three helpers that was hired to come in to scab to make people think they was producing. And they wasn't making any production at all.

GEORGE STONEY: Now could you talk about what it was like during the first years of the Depression?

GOSSET: You talking about '29?

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah, '29 and all that, '29-'30-'31.

GOSSET: Well, when the Depression hit, was had a boom. Everything was booming and everybody was working until we had the Depression in '29. And the bottom 00:14:00fell out in Florida and then it spread all over the United States. And when it spread, everybody -- had men, grown men, women and children on the streets selling pencils and apples and you could see the apples, them Red Delicious apples and them Yellow Delicious apples -- you could hold it up like a mirror, it shined so, and see yourself, picture in that apple. And they selled them. And nobody had a job. And the farmers, I think, was only paying $5 a month for a month's wages and board. Five dollars a month to a farmer.

GEORGE STONEY: Could you talk about the Klan. And I want to make sure you look right in the camera now. I want you to talk about the Klan and the union and the strike.

GOSSET: Well, the Klan was supported by the company because nearly all the bosses and second hands belonged to the Klu Klux Klan and did what the company 00:15:00wanted 'em to. And the Klan was for the company and against the union. And they threatened a lot of the union people and scab -- the union people and protected the scabs and and took up for 'em. And the Klan, when we -- and later on we had the Black Shirts.

GEOGRE STONEY: What were the Black Shirts?

GOSSET: The Communists?

GEORGE STONEY: The Black Shirts. What were the Black Shirts?

GOSSET: The Communists. That was the Communists. We was fixing to have a rebellion here in the United States. In other words, they -- they was kind of -- they was more for the union. The Black Shirts was for the union and the Klan was against the union. The Black Shirts was against the company and more for the union. They wanted to help themselves. In other words, they believe that a man should be equal and have an equal day's pay and equal day living.

GEORGE STONEY: Okay. When -- could you describe the -- the way the National Guard worked around the strike?

GOSSET: Well, the National Guard -- I had two brothers that worked in the mill, one older than me and one younger than me, and they went to work in the mill before I did, and they was in the National Guard. And I wasn't in the National Guard because I had paper routes and I was delivering newspapers when I went to work there and I kept delivering newspapers. I was on the first shift, went to work at 7 till 3 and got off and delivered newspapers from 3:30 till 6:30. And I wore out four bicycles and four automobiles delivering newspapers. And so I wasn't in the, ah, National Guard, but my brothers was and they was out on strike and the National Guard -- Herman Talmadge -- I mean Gene Talmadge called out the National Guards, took my two brothers off the picket line, sent one down to West Point and one down to LaGrange, Georgia. And one of 'em was in the outfit down there where they had a fellah got scared and they all had their bayonets on their rifles. And they had their rifles loaded with bayonets on 00:17:00'em. And one of 'em stabbed one of the scabs down there because he couldn't bulldoze him around and make him do what he wanted to, and so he stabbed him with the bayonet and cut him and killed him.

GEORGE STONEY: Ah, why was it -- why was it so bad to have the National Guard out during the strike?

GOSSET: Well, because the National Guards is, ah, like a militia like the Army and like the police, military police. In other words, you had better obey 'em or they could put you in jail or put you in a concentration camp. Out here at Fort McPherson they had a concentration camp out there at the old target range. And they had barbed wire fence and pup tents and they had men, women and children living in pup tents on the ground and fed 'em rations. In other words, hard tack and stuff and World War I rations.

GEORGE STONEY: Did you see any of that yourself at Fort McPherson?

GOSSET: I sure did.

GEORGE STONEY: Could you tell us about it?

GOSSET: Well, I just got through telling ya' that they had hard tack that was in a brown tin can, sealed, and you had to (inaudible), like opening up a can of sardines or a can of viennas. And you opened it up and it wasn't nothing but a soda cracker made of water, flour and water. They it "hard tack" and it was left over from World War I. And this was in '34 and some of it had bugs in it.

GEORGE STONEY: What did the women think of being out there in the camp?

GOSSET: The -- they was ashamed of themselves and didn't think an American citizen would ever be treated like that, and particularly a mother nursing a baby out there sleeping in the cold on the ground and nothing -- no -- sometimes we didn't even have a blanket or a sheet to cover up with.

GEORGE STONEY: Now we have some newsreel footage that shows -- that makes it look like it was a summer camp, with the p-- the girls being treated nicely and 00:19:00being fed by the soldiers and so forth.

GOSSET: Well, I never saw any of that. I don't know where they had that at. They didn't have it here at Fort McPherson or down at LaGrange or down at, ah, ah, Columbus, Georgia. They might have had it at some -- they could have had it at Newnan, that is a textile town and got more millionaires for the size of the town than any other town in the United States -- textile millionaires.

GEORGE STONEY: Now yours -- tell us about where you mill was and, ah, how it -- what happened exactly in your mill during the strike.

GOSSET: Well, my mill is a combination of a woolen mill. Name of it was the Atlanta Woolen Mill, but it was half cotton. It made cotton merchandise in one section and wool in the other. And I worked in the wool division because it paid more than cotton. And I's was out looking out for Lloyd to make a living and feed my wife and kids. And, ah, that's the reason I worked in the mill and 00:20:00carried newspapers. And then when I got married, I gave up my newspaper route and started working in clothing stores and grocery stores on Wednesdays, Thursdays, Friday, Saturday and making extry money.

GEORGE STONEY: Now when you went on strike out at the woolen mill, were there local merchants who helped to feed the strikers?

GOSSET: No! We couldn't even rent a damned empty school building or empty store. We had to meet in the woods, what they call the Purgeson, the big woods. They got a park there at Purgeson Park. Old man Purgeson died and gave that land to the city and it connect up to the Atlanta Woolen Mill, and it's known as the Purgeson Park. And it was given to the city by Mr. Purgeson. And he was friendly to us, but he didn't give us no food or nothing. All the merchants was against us, told us we ought to go back to work and we wouldn't need no food.

GEORGE STONEY: Could you talk about the company commissary?

GOSSET: Well, one week I --

GEORGE STONEY: Just say, "Well the company had a commissary."

GOSSET: The company had a company store, a commissary, and it had a lunch track that went through the mill. And you bought bugeloos, they called it. You signed up and buy a dollar's worth of coins, nickels and little size, about the size of a nickel, and it was alloyed. And you did that in the lunch stand and bought your money and they'd take it out payday. Then you'd go down to the grocery store and buy your groceries and take it home and payday come, you didn't have a payday. You -- and many a times I've seen 'em go down there and they owed money at the end of the week instead of drawing money and they had nothing to buy anything with. And they had to keep -- the company kept 'em in debt when they'd buy there, because Pet milk was 10 cents at A&P and Colonial Stores and it was 20 cents at the commissary. They charged double prices for everything because you charged. And that kept you in debt where you couldn't leave the mill and didn't have money to start on your own.

GEORGE STONEY: Talk about Talmadge, Gene Talmadge.

GOSSET: Well, Gene Talmadge was a great farmer man. He took up for the farmers. And we had the county unit system and these little towns had two units and Fulton County only had six, but we had 600 times the population of the little town and we only had 6 votes. So he -- he lost Fulton County. He never did carry Fulton County, City of Atlanta, Talmadge did. But he won on the county unit vote, 159 county units.

GEORGE STONEY: Now it's said that Gene Talmadge swore he wouldn't call out the National Guard. As soon as he won the primary, he did call it out. Could you tell that story?

GOSSET: Well, I'm not too familiar with that story. I heard the story through mouth, and my daddy told me never believe only half of what you read and nothing you hear. And so I don't know about that.

GEORGE STONEY: Fine. Thank you. Okay. Could you talk about why Gorman called 00:23:00off the strike?

GOSSET: Well, to the best of my knowledge -- I wasn't one of the state directors or international representatives. I was just a volunteer and a -- and a striker. And, ah, the reason I understand he called it out, because the people were starving to death and we wasn't making any money and could get no help. Nobody would give us anything. They was against us because we's strikers.

GEORGE STONEY: Yeah—

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(inaudible)

GEORGE STONEY Okay. Could you tell me a little more about the -- what happened when the strike got called off?

GOSSET: Well, we was blacklisted and everyone that was out on strike the company sent their name to every other company. And you could go one and then 00:24:00ask for a job and they'd have ads wanting somebody to work -- "skilled loom fixer", "skilled weaver" or "skilled doffer" or so forth -- you'd go there, "Where're you from?" And you'd tell him, "Atlanta Woolen Mill" or "Egan Cotton Mill" or "Fulton Bag" or "Exposition." And they said, "Well, let me look up." And they'd go look and you came out on strike, "We don't hire strikers." You's blacklisted.

GEORGE STONEY: Now what happened to you personally?

GOSSET: I's blacklisted.

GEORGE STONEY: Just say that--

GOSSET: I was blacklisted and then went back to work and, "We ain't got no work for you, Mr. Gosset." So I's kindly glad of it, because I went downtown, Ladies' Fifth Avenue Shoe Shop and began to sell women's shoes and I'd put up stock on Wednesday and sell women's shoes on Friday evening and all day Saturdays, and made as much that -- doing that as I did at the mill for all week.

GEORGE STONEY: Okay. Did you -- what -- could you talk about Roosevelt's role in all of this?

GOSSET: Well, I tell you, Roosevelt, to me, is one of the best Presidents we've ever had because he was for the -- he was a rich man and his wife was rich and all, but he -- he did more for the working people and the underhealthy, underprivileged people than anybody had ever done up to that time.

GEORGE STONEY: Did you ever write a letter to him?

GOSSET: I wrote many a letters to him and I went swimming --

GEORGE STONEY: I wrote many letters to Roosevelt

GOSSET: I wrote many letters to President Roosevelt and I also went swimming in Warm Springs when he drove that A Model down there and went down there for his infantile paralysis. I went swimming with him.

(sound of phone ringing)

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JAMIE STONEY: Ok, rolling again.

GEORGE STONEY: Just a moment.

JUDITH HELFAND: (inaudible)

GEORGE STONEY: No, no.

JAMIE STONEY: No.

GEORGE STONEY: Uh Jamie, should I, should I have him smoking now.

JAMIE STONEY: Um I don't think so, no. I would think not.

GEORGE STONEY: Could you dock your cigarette? Okay. Now do you remember -- could you tell us about writing Roosevelt and Mrs. Roosevelt?

GOSSET: Well, I didn't write Mrs. Roosevelt. I wrote Mr. Roosevelt, the President.

GEORGE STONEYL Again talk to the camera.

GOSSET: And, ah --

GEORGE STONEY: Start from again I didn't write.

GOSSET: I did not write Mrs. Roosevelt; I wrote Mr. Roosevelt while he was President Roosevelt, not to the Mrs., but President Roosevelt. And, ah, I got a reply from his secretary. And, ah, said, "If there's any further information" -- I forgot what the matter was now -- but to give her further details and she'd be glad to check into it.

GEORGE STONEY: Did you know anybody else who wrote to the Roosevelts?

GOSSET: Oh, yes. There was a lot of us strikers, a lot of the people in the textile mill at that time hadn't gone no further than the second or fourth grade and couldn't write and read. And so a lot of 'em couldn't write, but us crew leaders of the flying squadron and, ah, all, we -- we wrote, but that was only about 10%.

GEORGE STONEY: Do you remember any of the other letters, what did they say?

GOSSET: Well, they requested Roosevelt to pass a wage and hour law, and they asked him to pass a health law and welfare benefits and housing and, ah, the things that we dare need real bad because the company didn't have enough houses to furnish all its employees and the employees had to travel from out on the farms and all to the city, and they had to pay room and board and then at the 00:28:00end of the week they had nothing to take home to their family.

GEORGE STONEY: Could you go back and talk -- did -- talk about Gorman. Did you ever meet him? What did you think of his leadership, and so forth.

GOSSET: Well, I liked Gorman, but I didn't like him at much as Roosevelt. And Gorman was a good man, but he's just a man that -- his personality and mine didn't gee-haw together.

GEORGE STONEY: Did you ever meet him?

GOSSET: Yes. I shook hands with him.

GEORGE STONEY: Just start saying I meet Gorman, I shook hands with him and so forth and so on.

GOSSET: Well, Gorman came to one of the general meetings.

GEORGE STONEY: Uh, sorry, sorry, you just have to wait tilt he bus passes. Sorry to do this to you but it's such a beautiful story, so important for us to get.

JAMIE STONEY: Hold up, let's slap a new tape in.

GOSSET: Gorman—

GEORGE STONEY: uh, uh