Harry Barton Interview 3

GEORGE STONEY: You came back and tell that again about how you got for going to uh, LaGrange and what happened after that.

HARRY BARTON: How much money I collected. Well, as I say, I think I -- I would just have to estimate it. I don't remember that far back, but I estimate I signed up at least 300 and he signed up, I'd say, around 225-30. He wasn't at as busy pace as I was. So I'd say we brought back $550 and all the names of everybody and their address and everything and turned it over to this man that was with the textile union, whatever his name was. I forgot it. Can't remember the name to save my life. But that's what we did with it.

GEORGE STONEY: And what did he pay you?

BARTON: What did they do?

STONEY: Tell about what he paid you.

BARTON: Well, he paid - paid me $3, and I looked at him. I says, "What's this for?" He said, "Well, that's your pay for the three days' work down here." And I said --I asked Barker, I said, "Barker, how much did you -- he paid you?" He said, "He gave me $3." Well, we like to not left LaGrange with him. So on Monday night at the -- the city had let us use a city hall, the upstairs part of the city hall for the meeting. Now let me -- let me -- let me go back a little bit. Everybody in the Hogansville, you didn't have to be a textile employee. They signed up the chief of police, the city councilmen. Anybody in town could 00:02:00join that thing and their vote counted just as much as if they'as down there producing. That was one of the wrongs of the -- of the local to do anything like that. So we had the house packed that night and I was recording secretary. I was elected recording sec -- secretary. And, ah, I -- I told, ah, the president of the local, man that was in charge of opening the thing -- I told him, I said, "I got -- I want to speak first." He said, "Well, go ahead." I said, "I've got something I want to say to people." We was friends. Let me tell you something. We was just like blood brothers and sisters, everybody in there in the whole town. We all went to church together. We all loved one another and we tried to help people out. I says, "I want to tell you folks something and I don't know whether you like it or whether you don't like it. That's -- that's not going to have anything to do with my decision. But," I 00:03:00says, "Luther Barker's setting over there and myself, we just worked three days last week down at Calloway Mills at Chiquita -- place they called Chiquita Flats." And I said, "And we signed up over 500 people down there and worked three 12-hour days down there, 36 hours, and this gentleman setting over here, he paid me $3 and he paid Mr. Barker $3." And I still had mine. Wasn't able to have a billfold back in them days, but I had a little old tobacco sack I put it in and I took it out and I said, "This is that $3." I said, "Now I think the world of ever one of your guys. You're my friends, but," I says, "I'm not going to use any of the words like I done -- I'm sorry I did the other day," but I said, "I'm through with the union. I'm going to fight it just as hard as I can fight it. If this is what the union's going to do for the people of 00:04:00Hogansville, we don't need it!" Now that's what I said and I walked out. Well then, this mill down yonder -- this is '34 now, when they had the textile strike -- Mr. Smith, who was general manager from New York of the U.S. Rubber Company Mill then, which is Weinberg(?) here in Shelbyville, Tennessee, he called all the people together and he said, "We're not going to have a strike. We're just not going to have a strike." And Mr. Kirkland was the superintendent of our plant and he says, "We'd just rather not. We're going to close the mill down and the people can call it what they want to, but we're going to close the mill down because we don't want our people to go on strike." Well, let me tell you, they took over. They took over down there and they, ah -- they got pretty radical. Then they decided they'd go around and stop off some of the other 00:05:00mills. And they called 'em the Flying Squadron. And they cut grain sticks, like a -- about as long and about that big around, a little longer than a baseball bat, and, I tell you, there was people that would march up and down the street and knock on your -- hit right on your porch, wake you up, says, "Get up. We're going off to another -- to a certain town today." I'd open the door and run 'em off and, well, they did for a long -- you'd be surprised how many mills up in this area here that they -- they went out and stopped. But they wouldn't go down to Alabama 'cause they had machine guns setting out there waiting for 'em. Now Hogansville had a -- they took a name. Their name was just drug in the dirt on account of something like this. And so, ah, I spent my time 00:06:00fishing. As I tell you, there's a boy in that picture there that we played in the band together -- he's a little bitty fella -- and we went fishing every day. And we'd walk up the railroad 'cause we wasn't able to have a flashlight. And we'd come home about dark and it was about 2 miles up there where we went fishing. And we was walking up the railroad. Before we got out of the city limits down there and these four trucks -- I believe it was four of 'em -- drove four truckloads of my friends -- had been -- they shook sticks at us and called us ever kind of name they could call us. And I told Tom McCray. I says, "I hope every so-and-so one of 'em gets locked up." Well, we fished all day and we came home and had a pretty nice fish that I brought home. When I come up, my wife said, "Come around to the backdoor, Honey. I got you some water there and you can clean your fish, because I got something I want to tell you." So I went around to the backdoor and she had the water and had the light on, and she said, 00:07:00"Now you won't believe what I'm gonna tell you." I said, "What is it?" She says, "All the flying squadrons is behind barb-wired fence up at Fort MacPherson." I says, "You don't mean it!" She says, "Yeah." Well, I had an uncle, a great uncle, he was my dad's mother's brother, was superintendent of the old mill up there at Newnan and this is where they went. And old man Gene Talmadge was governor during this time. And he got a tip -- Uncle Will Reynolds got a tip that they were gonna come and close that mill down. And he called Gene Talmadge. Gene Talmadge says, "I'll have the -- the Georgia National Guard down there right outta town and we'll have a contact with ye' and when they drive up, y'all drive up, too." But they had busted the gate open and they'd 00:08:00started in when his truck drove up there and, boy, when them guardsmen begin to jump off of those trucks, Uncle Will said, well, he picked up seven pistols that they dropped down out of their britches leg. They picked 'em up, went down the road. Now you mentioned a man's name while ago, he didn't drop his. Homer Welch. He didn't drop his pistol, so he had a pretty rough time of it. Pretty rough time. They took 'em all up yonder and put 'em behind barbed-wire fence and, of course, you mentioned that lady yesterday, Etta Mae. She -- now I had two brother-in-laws in that thing—

[break in video]

BARTON: --in hot lightning(?).

(laughter)

M1: (inaudible)

STONEY: Alright sir, you were saying. You were telling me about uh, what was 00:09:00happening with, when Gene Talmadge got in touch with your—with the fellow in uh Newnan.

BARTON: What happened to him?

STONEY: Yes

BARTON: Well, I suppose -- my best recollection is they stayed up there about 8 --

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STONEY: Ok, now sir. Uh, what happened to them at Fort McPherson?

BARTON: What happened to what?

STONEY: What happened to them at Fort McPherson?

BARTON: Well, (laughs) I guess they was just prisoners a while, a bad situation that happened among friends. That's what I'd say and they's a lot of people was good people in there. They would never done a thing like that, you know? You get your emotions stirred up in any kind of a thing and you can get your emotions up too high for the situation, and I'm sure that a lot of the people up there -- but it was some of 'em that was pretty die-hards. They stayed that away and they -- they never did work anymore down at the plant. Homer Welch was 00:10:00one of 'em.

STONEY: Now you say that your -- the plant -- your second hand and the manager encouraged you to be in the union. Why do you think he did that?

BARTON: The second hand did, not the overseer now. Well, I often wondered myself and I asked him later on about it. I said, "Why did you" --

STONEY: Just start over and say "Well the second hand—"

BARTON: Well, the second hand encouraged me -- he knew that they had asked us to go down there and I told 'em no and he came to me, says, "Now if you want to go, go. I'll let you off." I said, "Well, who's going to pay my money?" He says, "They'll pay you." I says, "I -- I need what I make here ever day to help carry my -- what I need to run my house on, you know." And he says, "Well, they'll -- they'll pay you. I don't know where he -- why he thought that." So I told him, okay, we'd go up. And so that's -- we went down there. They -- 00:11:00they furnished the transportation. They hauled us down there, had somebody to come and get us ever night, and that was it as far as that was concerned. And when he asked me why did I left the union like I did. I said, "Well, what would you have done?" I said, "You told me they was paying me. They gave me postage stamp money." But, ah, I didn't like that. And I -- I ought not to say this. I shouldn't say this. I know the labor union -- labor unions have done a lot for people. I'll say it very sincerely. But you go into a town and something new come up, which this was -- now this was back in the days of the old John L. 00:12:00Lewis coal miner union people? They'd close the mines down, you know? And they were tough, too. And back in the days of hard times and -- but I do know -- I'll say this. Organized labor, handled in the right way, and the people handle themselves in the right way, gained a lot for the working man in this country. I say that sincerely.

STONEY: Have you ever been in a union?

BARTON: Ever been in one? Naw, I wouldn't know what it would be. Now if that thing was a union, that's the only thing I was ever in. I never would join another one. I never did work anywhere else to join another one.

STONEY: Did you ever talk with anybody, any --

BARTON: I showed you a picture of my son over there a while ago. He was general sales manager for J.P. Stevens Company. They had 96 plants, next to Burlington. Burlington had 120-something. J.P. Stevens had 96 textile plants. Of course, he -- he was in toweling, sheeting, they made many different products. But he was the sales manager for that division. Oh, he called me from New York, said, "Dad, I'm coming down and I'm gonna fly into Atlanta and pick me up a car and come by and spend the night and I want you to go with me over to Milledgeville(?), Georgia." This was close to where my wife had this home over there on Sinclair Lake. And, ah, says, "We gonna go through some mills and I'd like for you go to through some and see the mills. We're going through three of them today." Well, that -- that plant at Milledgeville was one of the nicest plants that I have ever been in. I've never seen a plant that was 00:14:00as nice as it was. Clean. Everybody was clean that worked in the there, and people seemed to have a good attitude. I just stood around and observed 'em. Well, I'll tell you what, I'd say from the distance from that corner to the corner over there at that door, on that wall, that big, J.P. Stevens had up there, in letters, "No Extry Activity and Communications about Things Outside of Your Job in Mill or You'll Be Discharged." That was up there and it was up in three of the mills that I went in that day.

STONEY: Well now, back to the '34, you told us the other day that you talked with the supervisor in the mill about being in the union. Do you recall that?

BARTON: Oh, yeah, the same guy -- yeah, and he was for it. He was for it.

STONEY: The second hand?

BARTON: Yeah, but the overseer definitely was not. I don't know how they -- how they got by with it thataway, but he did.

STONEY: Did the overseer know that you had gone to LaGrange?

BARTON: (coughs) Yes. He knew that I went down there, but the second hand, he let me go.

STONEY: What did the overseer say?

BARTON: He didn't ever say anything to me. Never did say anything to me. But he had to go to -- the second hand had to go to Mr. Kirkland's office. He sat across the desk from him and what was said there, I don't know. But, I tell you, he didn't cooperate with 'em any more.

STONEY: How did Mr. Kirkland know that people were members of the union?

BARTON: Well, (laughs), ah, in the position he was in, the people would, ah – he had ask people. And they'd tell him. And he'd write the names down. And a lot of those people that turned out to be as good a mill people as they ever had, loyal to the company, after that thing was over with made some of the best people we ever had down there. I run some supervisor's jobs myself. I worked for some of the people that wanted to whup me back in them days. They's a lot of 'em learned a lesson. We had one guy that held onto the lot that the union bought to build a hall on, and he paid the taxes on it for a long time. And, ah, I don't know. They -- they kept him there. He was a good -- good worker and finally he -- they gave -- he worked at somewhere where they could give it to some church organizer in the place, the building. They gave it to them. 00:17:00Gave them that property. And now we had -- since then, we had other labor unions to come in here, lots of 'em, and we had votes and it got pretty hot and heavy, but they always won out, about 3 to 1, the company did. The company was good to people. They were paying 'em good money and, ah, they had good working conditions and it wasn't like it was back in the beginning of that thing. I'm talking 'bout 10 years later they came in here. They tried hard to organize this place. They wanted to organize everything U.S. Rubber Company had. And, of course, their tire cord plants, which I had gone through one of 'em out in Los Angeles, everybody was organized in everything but the textiles as far as 00:18:00U.S. Rubber. They had many operations, different -- different things that they did, but the textiles never did organize anymore. They did up at -- up at, ah, Shelbyville and Shelbyville was losing money and they just closed the mill down. As far as I know, it's still closed down.

STONEY: Now there seems to have been a lot of activity in favor of the union. You said you got 500 down at LaGrange and there was a lot of people here and so forth. What was the basis of that? Why did people take the risks? They knew the boss was against 'em.

BARTON: Well, I'd say that I didn't know many of the people. I knew some. I knew a few of them that I'd signed up down there, but I'd say people was reaching out to do something that would better their home life and give them a better living and that would be more income. And I think that was the whole 00:19:00story behind that thing. They didn't mind the work, but then it got -- it got pretty nasty. I mean they got to doing things. They got to damaging property. They did some things in the plants at Calloway; they didn't here. And, ah, he had a wholesale -- they moved the people out of the houses, set their furniture out in the street. Just lots of 'em. Calloway was a mighty big man in textiles. I don't -- I hated to see that happen because I felt like I was partly responsible for it because I love people. I love people. I love my -- I could have a fight with a guy and be a friend with 'im in 10 minutes, but, ah, I 00:20:00really -- that hurt me worse than anything to know that some of those people -- their furniture was set out there and it rained on it. And they didn't even have money to have it moved. They didn't have anywhere to move it. Now I don't know whether you've ever heard this or not, but that's a fact.

STONEY: I've seen some pictures of that.

BARTON: Yeah. And it was lots of 'em down there, and I felt so badly about it because I felt like that, well, the little part that I did was -- wasn't much, but it was enough to make me feel bad.

STONEY: Did that happen in Hogansville?

BARTON: No, it didn't happen in Hogansville. Nobody was thrown out of their house. They tried -- the Hogansville -- management of the Hogansville plant did everything they could humanly possible to get everybody back together again. And they did a terrific job on it.

STONEY: What was the big -- the most effective thing they did?

BARTON: Well, I don't know how to approach that. What do you mean "effective"?

STONEY: Well, was it giving more money? Was it having parties? Was it –-

BARTON: No, didn't have any parties. They had -- I'll tell you what they did. They organized in the plant a council, employees' council. Have you heard of that before? Well, I served on that. I served as president of that council for a long time. And some of the toughest guys that was in the union did, too. All the problems, you go tell your representative of your department what complaints you had of anything. And they'd discuss it and if it was nature enough to bring it up in that meeting, they'd bring it up and discuss it out there right before 00:22:00management. The management wanted it that away. And management done a lot of things for those people that they wanted to do. And it turned out to be all right. Hogansville healed their wounds. It took a long time to do it, but they healed the wounds of the community. And, I'll tell you, it busted up families, busted up the churches, the town. It was awful, but it -- I'd say in five years' time, it was -- it took about five years to -- and, ah, and at the end of that five years we had a horrible depression. My first child was born in '27. My next 'un was born August the 29 -- the 27th day of August, my daughter right there, that picture there. And she, ah -- in two weeks' time the banks began to 00:23:00fail. Well, they failed so fast, Mr. Roosevelt just closed 'em all up. You remember that? And they -- the mills shut down. The mills shut completely down and, ah, we had -- we had it tough. But as quick as they could, they began to -- and then the W-- let's see, public works. Let's see, they had the WPA and they had the CCC camps and had two of them public -- PWA and WPA, wasn't it? Yeah. Well, everybody that could, they gave 'em jobs. They cleaned up swamps and they did a lot of things and went over to Pine Mountain, where President Roosevelt liked -- where he lived over there, cleaned up lots of that area over 00:24:00there. And the CC camp boys, they -- they got out and did different things and they all lived like they was in a -- in a barracks, you know, in the military. And that's been so long, it's kind of hard for me to -- but they -- this -- this help bringed people through the Depression, the hard part of that Depression. They also had trucks to come up and I went to that truck and took my list and got what I wanted for me (money?). I wasn't ashamed to go get it. It -- it, ah -- my children was hungry and I was, too. Ah, I wasn't ashamed to go get it. I wasn't going to steal. I stole one chicken. I put a grain of corn on a fish hook and he come by and grabbed it and I took him in the window and we ate that chicken. I felt bad about that, but it was hard times. But the company, they 00:25:00did everything they could down there, I believe, because about 15 years after the strike till I got up into management, top management, down there. And, ah, I found out that they were always for the employees.

STONEY: Now last night we were having a discussion about East Newnan. There was Bud Neil and his wife, who worked in the mills over there and had lived in the town all their lives. It was their son and their daughter, a son-in-law and grandson. And they were telling about the strike and then they were telling about all the things the mills did, but they kept saying that the mills did all these wonderful things, but if you tried to organize, they'd fire you. Well, 00:26:00the grandson said, "It sounds to me like it's like a happy prison."

BARTON: It did. That didn't happen here. It might have happened in Newnan mills. That didn't happen here. They didn't fire anybody -- I don't know of a soul they fired. My brother was in industrial relations. He was the first 'un ever -- I mean he hired (inaudible) employment management. And I don't think I know of anybody that they fired because of their union activities. This was after the first go-round, you know. We had some pretty hot-headed people, but I don't know of anybody they ever fired down there. And I think I would have known, because I knew -- I say I worked on quality control for a long time. And when the war started, I had a code. Out in the mill they had bells to rings, horns to blow. And I had a number and if I heard it blow four times and then 00:27:00twice, that was 42, that was me. Well, I'd go to somebody's phone and call down to the office and ask the girl that was the receptionist and run the switchboard, I'd say, "Well, what do you want?" And she's say, "Well, so-and-so wants you." And it happened that the plant manager wanted me this day. And this wasn't during the strike, had nothing to do with the strike whatsoever. But, ah, this was when the war started. They was interested in nobody getting into the plants that would do anything to disrupt production. Tire cord was a very, very important thing and the product that we was making at the asbestos plant was very, very important. And the weaving over at the other mill, the heavy duck, they'd make long conveyor belts out of 'em. They all were. Well, I -- I went down there and she said, "Go in Mr. Link's office." He was the plant 00:28:00manager, A.C. Link was. And I walked into his secretary's office. She said, "Go on in there. They're waiting for you." So I had to go through another door. And she said, "They waiting for you." I said, "Well, who are 'they'?" I get in there and it was three men in there setting across from Mr. Link's desk, and so they all got up and he introduced me to these gentlemen and walked out. He said, "You talk take my seat here." I said, "Good. I've been wanting to sit behind your desk for a long time." I didn't know what he was doing. But they were FBI people. I was an FBI informer for 'em. I knew everybody. I was on quality control and everybody they hired, I'd go down to the employment office every day and get the names of these people, where they was from, and I worked on all three shifts, any way I wanted to work. That was a -- I didn't have to 00:29:00worry about production. I didn't have to worry about quality or anything like that. It was my job to -- to -- to look at people, watch 'em and observe 'em the very best I could without them knowing it. And if there was anything went wrong there, that they could have done anything, they called me. Fifth Columnists or something like that. Would get into plants and you could do something to one location and it'd close the whole thing down. And this is what they didn't want. And that's what -- and I'll tell you what they told me. He says, "It's three of you and you'll never know who the other two are and they'll never know who you are." And I never did not to this day.