Jack Cope Interview

JACK L. COPE: I was called to Cooleemee in 1933-4--

GEORGE STONEY: Just to start out, I was called to Cooleemee in 1934.

COPE: I was called to Cooleemee in the 1934 on strike duty with the National Guard from Salisbury.

GEORGE STONEY: And? Tell us what happened.

COPE: And we were here several days and kept the mills running while other mills were closed down.

GEORGE STONEY: Could you tell us what your duties were?

COPE: Ah, ah, we were deployed around the mill and at all gates and throughout the village. And we were only called out once when the convoy came in and we escorted it over the county line.

GEORGE STONEY: Uh, now I want you to start again and tell us all of that just together. And explain what the convoy was. Just start it , "I came to Cooleemee--"

JUDITH HELFAND: Um could you tell us which--that you're from company c and your commanding officer and how many troops there were.

COPE: I forgot all that.

GEORGE STONEY: So you can start again.

COPE: I was called to the Cooleemee on strike duty with the Company C of the 105th Engineers of Salisbury, North Carolina, in 1934. We were deployed around the mill company and at all gates throughout the village. We were --

GEORGE STONEY: What was you duty?

COPE: We were here to keep the mills running when all the other mills, cotton mills, were closed down. And we were only called out one time when the -- a convoy of workers from other cities came through and we had to escort them out over the county line.

GEORGE STONEY: How did that -- tell us about that convoy coming in, just what it looked like, who was in it and how you felt about doing it.

COPE: Well, they were mill workers from other -- other cities and villages from other mills and here to get so our mill was closed down.

GEORGE STONEY: How did you feel about doing that?

COPE: We had to do it. (laughs) The National Guard had -- we had to do what we was told.

GEORGE STONEY: Now how were those people armed?

COPE: I didn't know that they was armed. We didn't let 'em get out of their vehicles. Just turned 'em around and headed back to the county line.

GEORGE STONEY: Was there any resistance on their part?

COPE: No resistance at all.

GEORGE STONEY: Now we were told that a lot of them were armed with picker sticks.

COPE: They could have had 'em in their automobiles, but we never did let 'em get out of the automobile.

GEORGE STONEY: Could you start off and say, "Well they may have been armed--"

COPE: They may have been armed, but they were -- didn't get out of their automobiles and we didn't have a chance to see.

GEORGE STONEY: What size was your unit?

COPE: I'll say 165 men.

GEORGE STONEY: And what was your duty?

COPE: I was a machine gunner on the main gate.

GEORGE STONEY: Could you describe where the gun was and what you did?

COPE: We had a machine gun on each side of the main gate and, ah, regular infantrymen on the other gates.

GEORGE STONEY: And how long were you here?

COPE: We were here several days up -- I don't remember. It was maybe two or three weeks.

GEORGE STONEY: And did you -- did you get to know any of the people here?

COPE: Oh, yes. I was -- I was raised in 7 or 8 miles of here.

GEORGE STONEY: Sorry could you start off again and say, " I was raised within in 7 or miles of here."

COPE: You mean start the whole thing over again?

GEORGE STONEY: Yup, yup.

COPE: (inaudible)

GEORGE STONEY: Go ahead, just that. Just start, "I was raised--"

HELFAND: I regards to knowing people.

COPE: I was -- I was raised within 15 miles of Cooleemee and knew many of the people here. In fact I had relatives here living, working in the mill.

GEORGE STONEY: How did they feel about your being here and working on the National Guard? Were they on strike?

COPE: Yeah. Well, they -- they appreciated it. They were for us. They wanted to work.

GEORGE STONEY: Now could you tell about meeting your wife here?

COPE: I -- I met my wife here a few months after, ah, the strike was over. I was working at that time in a restaurant and running a lunchwagon through the mill after the strike was over.

GEORGE STONEY: And?

COPE: And I have been living here just about ever since.

GEORGE STONEY: Now was there -- what was the feeling about the union when you were here?

COPE: Everybody was for the union, I reckon. (laughs)

GEORGE STONEY: But how did they feel about your coming in? If they were all for the union --

COPE: Oh, I really don't know.

GEORGE STONEY: Now --

COPE: Might have been they got the union after -- I -- I remember where the union hall was, but I don't remember much about it 'cause it really didn't interest me.

GEORGE STONEY: Now did you get any special training for this work?

COPE: No. Just -- just regular military -- just military training is all.

GEORGE STONEY: Now we've seen a lot of newsreels, you know, of the National Guardsmen on different places and we notice that a lot of them had the bayonets 00:08:00on the ends of the rifles. Could you just describe what kind of bayonet training you had and why that might be --

COPE: We had hand-to-hand combat training with bayonets, regular infantry training, along with bridge building and mine laying. That's about it.

GEORGE STONEY: Were you ever called out on any other strike duty?

COPE: No.

GEORGE STONEY: This was the only time?

COPE: Yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: Ok Judy, any other?

JUDITH HELFAND: Could you tell us where you slept during that time that you were doing your strike duty?

COPE: We had our barracks set up over the second story of the company store. 00:09:00And we had a guard tent down between the company store and the mill for any prisoners we picked up.

GEORGE STONEY: Did you pick any -- did you arrest any people?

COPE: I think, yeah, but I know it was a few.

GEORGE STONEY: Just say I know there was a few arrested

COPE: I know there was a few arrested, but I don't know what they were arrested for.

GEORGE STONEY: And did you work with the company guards?

COPE: Well, the company didn't have any guards.

GEORGE STONEY: Were there -- were there fences around the mills at that time?

COPE: Oh, yeah, yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: Could you just say there were fences around, but no guard--

COPE: Yeah, there were high fences around the mill, but no guards except the National Guard.

GEORGE STONEY: What about the foremen? Did the supervisors or the foremen work with you?

COPE: No. They were all in the mill. We were on the outside.

GEORGE STONEY: Were you on mill company property?

COPE: Yeah, mill company property.

GEORGE STONEY: Do you recall the supervisors coming out and talking with you?

COPE: No. They might have talked with the officers. They didn't talk with us.

HELFAND: I wonder if you recall -- if you were right up on top of the mill. That's where you had your gun?

COPE: No. At the mill gate where the people go into the gate to work.

GEORGE STONEY: What did people say to you, the strikers?

COPE: They didn't get close enough to talk to us. There wasn't no strikes in Cooleemee. They's all wanting to work.

HELFAND: I just wonder if you could describe to me what it was like to come here with the whole Company C and the orders that they gave you.

GEORGE STONEY: Also mention how old you were.

COPE: I was probably 32 or 33 years old.

GEORGE STONEY: How old are you now?

COPE: Let's see. I'm 76. I probably messed up on that!

GEORGE STONEY: Now let's see--

COPE: (laughs) No. That's right, because I wasn't even married. I was probably in the early 20s. Yeah. I had to have been finished school. I finished school in '32.

GEORGE STONEY: So it was just after you finished school.

COPE: Yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: Just start off and say, "Well I was just out of school--"

COPE: I was just out of school and when I was called up for guard duty.

GEORGE STONEY: Just one more thing. How much did you get paid and why did you join the Guard?

COPE: Oh, I joined the Guard because they wasn't any jobs and, ah, it did pay, let's see -- I -- I think about, if I remember correctly, it was about $20-- $20 to $25 ever three months. I got a check ever three months. I told you one day out here every month, but it was every three months, ever quarter.

GEORGE STONEY: And uh just say that again and just day and say how much that money meant to you at that time. Cause right now it's not gonna sound like much.

COPE: At that time everything was cheap and that money meant a lot to us then when we wasn't working. And after the strike was over, I got a job with the restaurant and started running the lunchwagon through the mill.

GEORGE STONEY: And how long did you stay with the Guards?

COPE: I was in it up till they went into World War II. Probably five or six years, I guess.

GEORGE STONEY: Did you stay with the same unit?

COPE: Yeah. Uh huh.

GEORGE STONEY: So were you in the Guard with any people who were in the mill?

COPE: No. I don't think so. No. No. I's from Spencer and I was with the Salisbury National Guard. I don't remember anybody from Cooleemee being in the Guard at that time.

GEORGE STONEY: Okay. A final question. What do you remember about -- what's your clearest memory about that time and being in the Guards and being on the strike?

COPE: You've lost me.

GEORGE STONEY: Do you have uh--just flash in your mind pictures of that time what would there be?

COPE: Well, we was all very busy. The mill was running fulltime and everything was running smooth.

GEORGE STONEY: Did people from the town come out and talk with you and fraternize with you and so on?

COPE: Oh, yeah. And when we were off-duty, they'd talk with us.

GEORGE STONEY: Well I know when I was in the Army, say I was in Montgomery people would have you out to dinner--they'd come by and bring you things to show that they were glad to have you ther. Did that kind of thing happen?

COPE: No. We were on duty all the time right -- right around the mill there.

GEORGE STONEY: Did you have maneuvers around the mill?

COPE: Yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: Judy I think we're through.

[break in video]

JAMIE STONEY: Ok.

HELFAND: The other one Jamie.

GEORGE STONEY: It's the other--

JAMIE STONEY: Excuse me can I finish a shot in a specific way? Thank you.

GEORGE STONEY: We need a long hold on that when you come back. Ok uh, Ron?

COPE: Hmm?

GEORGE STONEY: Sir if you could just say, "Well now this is the picture of us when we first got married and then below is of – when we were having our 50th anniversary." And I don't want to see anything on the left Jamie. None of the picture on the left. Alright sir?

COPE: Ok. This is pictures of when we were married and the lower picture is of our 50th anniversary.

GEORGE STONEY: Jamie, once again I want to see the two and then down to the smaller picture. That hold it. And go down to the lower picture and hold that. Ok. Can we come any closer to that? Huh we can cut to that shot.

HELFAND: When your wife meet you – she met you when you were on the guard wearing your uniform at all?

COPE: No, I don't think. She probably saw me when I was on the Guard, but she didn't know me. I didn't either till after it was over.

HELFAND: Did she work in the mill too?

COPE: She worked in the mill, yeah.

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GEORGE STONEY: Ok.

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