Cleveland Walton and Richard Allen Interview

 GEORGE STONEY: The unions and the strikes and so forth, could you talk about that?

CLEVELAND WALTON: Well, um, the Union they – the lady leader she come in there, she'll go in the snack bar and sit down and then when somebody get a chance – would want to sign it she'd go in there, you know, and write 'em up. But that wasn't too many, though, -- every now and then she'd get one and she's done that for about a couple, two or three weeks, you know. And I'll bet you out of the whole mill, I bet she didn't get over twenty people want to sign with her. Sure didn't. They wouldn't, they were scared, I reckon. That what it was.

GEORGE STONEY: Now there was a big strike in '34. Could you talk about that?

WALTON: Well, uh, uh. They march around there awhile – they like to got in that time, they like to made it. They got a bunch of them. And then and after they got started back to work, all them what the boss man knowed, had found out had signed the papers, fired, I bet you over 50 or more lost their jobs. And the next time Union come back to try to get in bet nobody, they were scared they would be fired. They fired about 50 to my knowing. Down in there.

GEORGE STONEY: Now, did the Union ever talk with you about joining?

WALTON: They did, they did.

GEORGE STONEY: In '34?

WALTON: They did. I signed. We went and – and if somebody went and told it, 00:02:00you know what I mean, you lost your job. I didn't get fired or nothing -- but he fired about 50 of them.

GEORGE STONEY: Why do you think you did not get fired?

WALTON: Well, uh -- I was, you know, kinda – low plunky boy around there – do, would do anything, you know -- try to hold on to me (laughs). Somebody lay out, something like that, they'd put me on the job. I'd do most anything in there, you know – run drawings, put up the ends, thread them [quills?] and things. If somebody lay out, well they had me. That's the reason I, you know, I got by pretty good, not like I should, though (laughs)

GEORGE STONEY: How'd you get along with the white people in the mill?

WALTON: Well, I never did have too much messing around with them because I know how they was and I didn't mess with them. When they'd tell to do something 00:03:00I'd try to do it.

GEORGE STONEY: Now I want you to start again and say, "I didn't have much to do with the white people."

WALTON: I didn't have nothing to do with them at all, I told you.

GEORGE STONEY: No, I'm sorry, again, just say, "I didn't have much to do with the white people." Okay?

WALTON: I didn't have much to do with white people, I sure didn't, cause I know they didn't like me and I'd treat them just like the wanted to be treated.

GEORGE STONEY: What about you, sir?

RICHARD ALLEN: Same thing, same thing, same way, didn't have much to do with them. Like he said, what they tell me to do, if I can do it, it gonna be done. I was a young man them days, you couldn't hurt me then. Now I can't hardly walk. (laughter) Pretty hard to get about now.

WALTON: Yea, they call it kick the devil.

ALLEN: Everything he said, (inaudible).

GEOGRE STONEY: Do you miss being in the mills?

ALLEN: Oh, yea. When I got sick I had to, you know, quit. The job was working me to death. Like I told you a while ago, I had a hard way to go but I couldn't read and write. They had to give me something I did know so I'd know what I could do. But I appreciate that and thankful for that. But looked like the more I done the more they would put on me. Cause I was a good worker. If I'd done this, -- taking up the quills on the mill, that whole big mill. Well I had a hateful boss man, I'll be fair to tell the truth on him. They fired him, I was glad of it. "Now you take Richard there, he now (inaudible), now you take Richard there and he got his hands full." And God knows I had 00:05:00all my hands full. Okay -- those two shifts done run since I went in at 3 and come out at 11 at night and go back at 3 and come out at 11 at night. There's a third shift and there's a first shift done run. That needle done run fast and it go over it twice. My bossman come and tell "Richard don't change clothes till it get Ron there" and "I'm um Ron there and sod off." Okay, yeah, he'd come there, "Hey Richard, and I'd "Yes, Sir." "What them there hands (inaudible) done running there on their own (inaudible). And I'd say, "What you asking me that for, man? You know two shifts" "You can't do this, go down there and tell him." And I'd say, "Hell, I will go down there and tell him." I was just as mad as he was then. He made me mad, good and mad, fighting mad, what I'm talking about.

WALTON: That was him, yeah.

ALLEN: Because I know I worked, and this boy he know what's going on, had to get on. I go on down there and tell the boss man. First boss man come in there and he said that man just didn't like me some kind of way. The first shift boss man come in there. He won't let you talk in front of him, you go out a way, he ain't going to let you talk to him. He sees me standing out there away and he beckon for me to come on in and I went on in there. "What's the matter up there, boy." I went on and tell him. I'm man enough to tell him. That's what I thought about it. I went on to tell him and there here come the first shift boss come in. He made me wait outside. He wouldn't let me hear what he told him. Because I was going to tell him how that man was. Yeah, I was going to tell him all of that. But I had to wait, okay. And when he got through talking he come back, beckon for me to come back. I went back in there and he 00:07:00said, "Richard", and I said "Sir". "He tell me you ain't running your job like you should.", and I was doing a whole lot of (inaudible). But I'll tell you what, he said this quietly. He said, "If you want to, if you want to now, go on back up there and get on your job and go to work." That man know this fellow was wrong. See he know this man was wrong and I was going to tell him. And then I come on out, here he come up behind me and I was around there changing my clothes, down on the quill over there and he go, "Let's go. Let's go," and I go "GRRR", I could have grabbed that man, I'm telling you the truth, and throwed him down in that quilt. He didn't know, I didn't lack much for grabbing him. I was livid, I know I got a tight tongue. But I live before I come in here, I ain't got to stay here to live. Fire me if 00:08:00you want. But the head man know he was wrong. Yea, he was good, he was pretty good. If you want to, go on back up there and go to work (inaudible) (Loud noise in background) What are you man, you going crazy? Better straighten up boy, gonna run over somebody like that.

GEORGE STONEY: Now, when you didn't have a union in the shop, who handles grievances like that?

ALLEN: Tell him, Walton, I don't know nothing all about that.

WALTON: They had an overseer and then they had a supervisor. The overseer took care of everything, the head overseer. And then the supervisor, he was the, he was our boss.

GEORGE STONEY: Did you know any of the big guys, the fellows that owned the 00:09:00mills, coming through every once in a while?

WALTON: Uhhh, what, what -- Bolton. I know him pretty well, I did. He kept coming in there about every 4 or 5 months. Talking -- Talking nice, he seemed to be a nice guy, Bolton, he sure was. He come in there about every six months and tells us what gonna take place, what he gonna do or whatever, you know. We didn't know if he was telling the truth or not but we couldn't ever know the difference. (laughter) He's say do this and do that and I could never tell the difference anyway. He just gives some good talks, yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: What happened at Christmas time?

WALTON: Well, uh, sometime we worked up until Christmas Eve day, and sometime they give us a turkey or a little ham or whatever as we was going out. They changed that about 4 or 5 years later they started giving us a Christmas bonus, a little old check about as big as your pay check as our Christmas present. (laughter) He'd be standing there at the gate, you know, as we'd be going out he's hand it to us.

GEORGE STONEY: Now where did you get your pay? WALTON: We'd knock off, we'd get paid on a Friday (inaudible) when I quit working we was getting paid on stubs. The bossman would come around, mmmm, about 2 o'clock. Got off at 3, I was on first shift. And he come round to everyone, you know and pay them 00:11:00off on the job. He, he had a stack of checks in his hands about that tall.

GEORGE STONEY: Now would they pay you in cash, uh, in the early days when you first went in the mills.

WALTON: No they'd pay us in checks. I ain't never got no cash, (inaudible) checks.

GEORGE STONEY: It was always checks right from the beginning.

WALTON: That's right. That's right.

GEORGE STONEY: Uh, was there a company store connected with your mill?

WALTON: No there wasn't. They had (inaudible) right in front of it, right in front of the front gate they had a little room about I think about as big as that house there. The had 3 cooks on the, on the first shift, second and third --

(airplane noise)

GEORGE STONEY: Hold it, hold it --

[break in video]

GEORGE STONEY: -- about what was at the gate.

WALTON: Well, that, that was where the kitchens were, right at the front gate. And you had a little old – wide door in the front, and right around the corner is where you come in, you know, to go up outside the mill to our (inaudible)—a 00:12:00little door I think about that wide. It was wide enough where you could get in it and it had a little shelf and you handed out food to the outside. All the white people they went right in that gate then they go in there and sit down they had tables, they'd go on and sit down and eat it. They wanted it fixed ahead of time (inaudible) eat it. We, we didn't get no (inaudible) reach out (inaudible)in that big old place. You had a sandwich back there or nothing, later they wait on you. But I'd go in there. (laughter) That is true. Sure did. Better not go the other way. No (inaudible).

GEORGE STONEY: According to Clara, uh, you didn't make very much but you had 00:13:00cows and chickens and so forth. Could you talk about how you fed your family.

WALTON: Well I raised hog, I used to kill somtimes 3 and 4 at a time (inaudible) fatten them up real good. Weigh 2 or 300 pounds some of them did. I would kill 'em you know and pack 'em down in salt. I had – was milking 2 cows, always had one come in most all the time. I had when we moved down here I (inaudible) 13 head of cow I raised. I killed them, had them ground up in sausage, hamburger meat, kill a hog grind the hog and cow together. I took care of them. (laughter)

GEORGE STONEY: And I notice right behind you, you're still growing something, tell us about that.

WALTON: I, I had to do that, I like to (inaudible) around me. (laughter)

GEORGE STONEY: Tell me about your garden, behind you.

WALTON: Well, uh, I get out there in the morning time go my (inaudible) I got to hose, I turn it on and let it run till come back, you know. It's a sprinkler you know. When I come back before I go in the house, I cut it off. I went along and dug it up the other day. I like to do something like that, I love it. (laughter)I just love it.

GEORGE STONEY: Was there much music around the mills?

WALTON: Mmmm, no. Didn't have nothing like that. The bossman sometime he'd have a little radio in the office. You know he'd play those (inaudible) be in there and shut the door. I reckon he had it on then, when you can't go in there. I know he played it. (laughter) But you never heard nothing like that in there.

GEORGE STONEY: Did the mill have anything to do with your churches?

WALTON: Church?

GEORGE STONEY: Yes.

WALTON: Sure didn't that I know. Sure didn't. (inaudible)

GEORGE STONEY: I know in some places that in the mill villages they paid the preachers and all of that.

WALTON: Well they didn't the one thing, one thing they would do was like, if like, uh if I'm working there, like anybody, if someone, if someone in the family die, they'll give you three days off with pay. Funeral pay that's the only thing they (inaudible). Well you can take of or you can still work, but still you're going to get your pay for three days. You would get paid but that's all you got.

GEORGE STONEY: And you worked in the same mill all the time?

WALTON: From when I was first hired up until I retired. (laughter) Two years after I retired, part time. Sure did

GEORGE STONEY: So how many years did you put in?

WALTON: Mmmmm uh, uh, 20, 26 years straight. I worked -- worked off and on, quit and come home and farm often they'd let me farm. When I go get them in 00:16:00trouble, I can go back to my job. And, and I put 26 years straight in there. About 35 years all along. Sure did.

GEORGE STONEY: You didn't have to go to the Army?

WALTON: No, uh, I , I registered for the Army and my stomach turned me down. Yup, sure did.

JUDITH HELFAND: (inaudible)

STONEY: Ok.

JAMIE STONEY: Rolling.

GEORGE STONEY: Ok. Could you tell me about the difference in the bathrooms in the factory?

WALTON: Well yeah, uh, uh, we had our bathroom on the bottom floor. On the ground, you know, in concrete, on the ground, like you know out there, under, 00:17:00under the floor. And the white people had theirs in about every part they are working in. And the pipe come down in ours. That where we were in the bathroom at the bottom of the huge (inaudible). Couldn't just wait till you had to go, cause you couldn't make it, you had to go so far. (laughter) Sure did, that's true. Well after then they tore that down and had—when they were making a change (inaudible). Yes that was better. Truman got in there then.

GEORGE STONEY: What happened if you wanted a drink of water?

WALTON: We if you didn't have no cup up there you couldn't drink none. They, they, they had a pipe, that pipe you had to bend over, till it right down in the sink. And if you didn't have no cup you couldn't drink none. A sweeper 00:18:00would get a cup to bring in there (inaudible). And so after Truman took over they took that pipe off, then you could go there anytime you want. You got your water. Sure did. (laughter) They had a long tube on like your finger and you bent it like that, you couldn't drink. Nothing (inaudible).

GEORGE STONEY: Now there was a time I gather, you got interviewed. Clara mentioned that.

F1: (inaudible)

GEORGE STONEY: Yup.

F1: You said something about when you went into get interviewed, uh they would say "All the niggers go home.", and the white people stayed there to get interviewed for the job. Do you remember anything about that?

WALTON: Yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah, uh-huh. Uh, uh, uh, you had the -- go round, let 00:19:00them go on in you know, and you wait you'd be the last going in to talk to them. Had to wait on them first.

F1: So in other words the white people got interviewed first.

WALTON: First, yeah oh, yeah.

GEORGE STONEY: Could you start again and tell me about that as though I never, I didn't know anything about this.

WALTON: Well (inaudible) a big old office there it was (inaudible) in there. You go by the lady and she would – do a little writing on paper, the application. You carry that on to the man and he filled you up. And then when you get through you had to carry it back to the main office. Turn it over to the office it up there.

F1: So did you go through the interview process or did someone recommend you for the job? Uh same with you Mr. (inaudible). Did you go to the mill to get interviewed or did somebody tell you that there was a job available and you just walked in and were handed a job?

WALTON: uh, uh, uh, uh, (inaudible) Bank, he, he recommended me. He had been working there a long time, yeah he dead.

F1: Now was he black or white?

WALTON: He was a black person. He had been at that mill I think about 25 years, before I went there. He died 7 or 8 years afterwards. But he's the one you know that talked to his bossman about me, you know, and he recommend me in, in he come, he come to my house and told me about -- the man said come in and he's going to give me a job right then (inaudible). Yeah sure did. If hadn't been for that fellow I wouldn't have been in there today. He know, told the bossman about me, recommend, sure did.

GEORGE STONEY: How did you get your job?

ALLEN: Well, uh a fellow working there, I owed him $20 and he got me a job in there and he done it. But he wouldn't take no money he got me the job. And that's the way I got in there. In the mill. I didn't know how they started, 00:21:00he'd been working there a good while I said, "Give me a job and I'll give you $20. When I make a payday." He took me up on it, well. Went right on in there. He got the job, pay day come and eh said, "I won't charge you." I appreciated that too. (laughter)

WALTON: That's the only way you go in at that time.

ALLEN: (inaudible) man you know (inaudible) man?

WALTON: Yeah I know (inaudible) man. That's the only way you got in there.

GEORGE STONEY: Uhhh anything that…

HELFAND: (inaudible)

GEORGE STONEY: Ok.

HELFAND: (inaudible)

GEORGE STONEY: Ok, now your daughter works for the union could you talk about 00:22:00uhhh, your ideas uh, about the union and all of that?

WALTON: Well I love it. I really love it, that's true. If I could have been a member of the union I'd have done it years ago. I, I, I, couldn't get in. (laughter) I do love it, that's true, I'm crazy about it.

GEORGE STONEY: Why did you think you couldn't get in?

WALTON: On account of (inaudible) my job. If I had got in there I would have had no job. I sure – I, I had to hold to my job, that's the reason I didn't get in there.

GEORGE STONEY: You thought you'd get fired if you – if they found out?

WALTON: That very – I thought I would get fired so I decided to just forget about it. That was big as (inaudible). A few of them you pulled for it, but they got fired. The next time they come they didn't get no body. (laughter)

GEORGE STONEY: But Mr. Roosevelt said that the law said you had to be—you had a right to be a member of the union.

WALTON: That's what he said, but I'd just been a member that's all. I wouldn't have had no job unless they give me a job. I had—I was just hold on to – I didn't know no better I thought I was (inaudible) holding on.

GEORGE STONEY: So Mr. Roosevelt couldn't have gotten you a job?

WALTON: Well unless he had one of his own, I could of worked, worked for him. But see there weren't none. (laughter) That didn't belong to him. See what I mean there? He, he, he all the help though he would. He looked out for you. He sure did.

GEORGE STONEY: Okay now is there anything that you either of you people would 00:24:00like to tell us that we haven't asked you about?

ALLEN: No sir.

WALTON: Well –

GEORGE STONEY: Just a moment.

WALTON: I, I, I do voting around here, hunting, fishing, and all that.

GEORGE STONEY: Hold on just a moment.

WALTON: Stuff like that.

GEORGE STONEY: Hold on.

JAMIE STONEY: Yeah I got the hat. (inaudible)

GEORGE STONEY: Let's let this car go. Ok tell me what you are about to say.

WALTON: I say I go to fishing. I love to fish. Sometime I go there and sit for about half a day or more. Some days I catch one or two other days I catch half a bucketful. I, I, I don't give them up. And I love to hunt. Sometimes I get my gun back down there and I see a squirrel in this tree. It gets low I can take 'em throw them back in that yard and get back in the house. (laughter) 00:25:00Get a lot to shoot 'em around here ain't no in the city. It come in there, it come in that tree I see him. I'll kill him (inaudible). (laughter) I love that kind of (inaudible). Fishing is what I love, nobody like it no better.

HELFAND: (inaudible)

GEORGE STONEY: Ok, I think we got it.

JAMIE STONEY: Ok, we got like about 6 minutes left.

[break in video]

(laughter)

(inaudible crosstalk)

ALLEN: Chew it for her.

STONEY: Tell her what to do.

ALLEN: Chew it for her.

WALTON: Okay.

ALLEN: And rub it on her arm.

HELFAND: Are you gonna chew it for me?

ALLEN: She don't want to put that in her mouth.

HELFAND: Does it work better if I chew it for me?

WALTON: It's about the same.

HELFAND: I'll try. That's a lot isn't it?

WALTON: That's enough, get it good and wet and rub it on. Good.

(laughter)

HELFAND: It's getting caught in my teeth.

WALTON: And rub it on.

HELFAND: How wet does it have to be?

JAMIE STONEY: Whatever you do don't swallow it.

WALTON: You got it alright.

HELFAND: Ok. Show me, come here.

WALTON: Now.

HELFAND: Yeah.

ALLEN: Show her.

WALTON: That's all to it. (inaudible)

HELFAND: It feels good.

WALTON: That will do it.

HELFAND: Now what's gonna happen?

WALTON: It's gonna go down. It ain't gonna swell. Prince Albert is good for it.

HELFAND: That's good.

WALTON: You want some more?

HELFAND: No. It's enough.

(laughter)

HELFAND: Well it still stings.

WALTON: Now, now he'll go away now. (inaudible)

ALLEN: Was it stung?

HELFAND: Was that an Alabama yellow – that was an Alabama yellow jacket wasn't it. That wasn't from Georgia, was that from over there in Georgia or 00:27:00was that from Phenix City?

WALTON: (inaudible) He get flying he'll just take off.

HELFAND: Alright.

WALTON: Yeah, yeah, you'll be alright now.

HELFAND: Thank you. This is what you grand—this is what your mama would do?

WALTON: Hmmm?

HELFAND: This is what your mother would do? If she got stung?

WALTON: Yeah.

F1: I think he (inaudible)

WALTON: A snake bit my momma one time. In the house. She was cleaning up in the (inaudible) called a rat snake.

HELFAND: A rattle snake?

WALTON: A rat snake.

HELFAND: A rat snake. Rushed her to the doctor and uh, Dr. McCann down here, he treat her. And then we come back and she was still swole. She was told to stop by the store and get some kerosene. Got 2 (inaudible) of kerosene, put it in a tub, kept her leg in there and kept it (inaudible) the only thing that could keep the swelling away. Doctor went down and he give her shots and stuff, it was swelling more and more till she put into that kerosene. (inaudible) like 00:28:00that. That, that morning the swelling was gone. Sure was.

HELFAND: Well thank you.

WALTON: oh yeah, oh yeah. You be alright.

HELFAND: When is it gonna get better?

WALTON: In just a little bit.

HELFAND: In a little while?

WALTON: (inaudible)

HELFAND: Ok.

JAMIE STONEY: We have it on tape for posterity.

HELFAND: Thank you.

WALTON: Alright Judy. Alright.