Reid Roach Interview 2

REED ROACH: Well, ah, at -- at the plant, at the bleachery, there was four people that could arrange for you a job. And, ah, the mayor and the city manager recommended that Lowenstein didn't pay what they started to pay here, and told 'em that 20 cents an hour would be sufficient, that people would be glad to work for that because some of the people around here were working the mills for $6 a week, 60 hour. And the, ah, only way that you -- that you could get a job in a plant was to contact the mayor, Mr. Barney Johnson, city manager 00:01:00Bill Goodman, or Dr. W.G. Stephens, the doctor at the plant that they had hired, and Mr. Ned Marshall is the oil-dealing Rock Hill. And that was about the only way that a person could get a job at the bleachery. And, ah, before -- before we had a union at the plant, it was a buddy-buddy system. If the foreman had a buddy, he's -- he's the one got the privilege of a job. And, ah, if, ah, he was kin to somebody, he'ad see that he got a job. And that way, why, we decided it was unfair till we should have the representation for -- so that we could choose our own jobs whenever they were vacant.

GEORGE STONEY: Now can you tell me why it was that more high paid industry didn't come into Rock Hill?

ROACH: Well, ah, they, ah, thought that Rock Hill Printing & Finishing Company would take -- you know, take up all the slack in this part and they weren't particular about some other company coming in paying more than -- than the bleachery was paying, because they was afraid they'd take the help and that -- that it'd be, ah, rather -- they, ah -- they thought that that was a reasonable thing, according to the economy, for things to be paid like they were paid. And 00:03:00they wasn't too anxious for other high paid industry at that time.

GEORGE STONEY: I want to start tell me that again, you say the chamber of commerce—tell Mr. Lowenstien 20 cents an hour was enough to pay anybody, they didn't want to encourage any high pay industries and why. Could you do that again for me?

ROACH: Ah, well, the, ah -- the people in this area, management, were, ah, afraid if some company'd come in and paid more than they did, why, they would usurp their best help.

TELEPHONE RINGS,

GEORGE STONEY: Uhp, cut it.

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GEORGE STONEY: Well she'd have to come and hang it up you see.

ROACH: Ah, well, at the time that, ah, we were organize, the recommendation of the city fathers -- I say "city fathers" because it had something to do with the, ah, council and everything -- recommended that 25 cents per hour was adequate. It was 9 cotton mills in Rock Hill at the time, and people were working in those mills for $6 a week, 60 cents an hour. So they didn't want to 00:05:00interfere with that, but now, today and up until last year, they'as not a cotton mill in Rock Hill, not a one. Of course, now J.P. Stephens fought the union tooth and nail for, ah, years. We tried to organize 'em and failed, but they were the last plant that closed in Rock Hill. We had the Highland Park, the Victoria, the Arcade, the Helen and, ah, ah, Industrial and Aragon. I know that that's all them that was here -- and another small mill that was here in Rock Hill at that time. And $6 a week was the wage, and they figured if -- if they 00:06:00didn't want to hurt those industries by letting these people pay 35 cents an hour or something like that. They wanted them to kinda keep in line with other manufacturers in this area. And, by the way, Lowenstein, I think they really appreciated that because they were used to paying more where they came from, Rhode Island, and they -- I believe that they would have paid more here if it hadn't been for that. And, ah, during the strike they worked a scab crew. And, by the way, we had three unions in the plant -- four, really. We had a mechanics' union, we had a printers' union, you had a engravers' union. And all of 00:07:00'em didn't support us -- not any of 'em. And so when, ah, the, ah -- the, ah, people in New York that was organized had, ah, the clothing workers, Lowenstein's goods, scab produced, they refused to cut it and sew it. So they got caught with probably a couple of million yards of cloth that they stored in the plant, and it took 'em from three to five years to get rid of that cloth after the strike was over. So it had -- they had a hard time getting rid of 00:08:00the scab cloth and it wasn't up to par to what regular people were producing. So, ah -- but that helped some because they wouldn't. And people that -- the scabs that they worked, I've knowed them to come out of the plant with an armful of cloth and throw it over the fence and -- and come by in their car and pick it up. So they didn't make too much by scab labor, I'll tell you that.

GEORGE STONEY: Now you were a country boy. You came out of the country.

ROACH: Yes, sir.

GEORGE STONEY: You came into Rock Hill. Where did you get the idea about union?

ROACH: Ah, after going to work in the plant and seeing the things that were going on within the -- happening to the people in the plant -- ah, I thought at one time I wouldn't even think about a union, but after I saw what was happening, you know, and I thought about the benefits that could be gained by 00:09:00people being -- working together and standing together for they own rights. So it could be a possibility for it.

GEORGE STONEY: Now I was talking to a man the other day who was the son of an owner, and he said that a lot of textile workers thought it was un-Christian to be -- to join a union.

ROACH: Well, I'm an elder in a church and I don't think it's un-Christian. You can give him that information.

GEORGE STONEY: I want you to say that again "But I don't think its un-Christian to join a union." Say that again.

ROACH: I don't think it is un-Christian to join a union, by no means. I'm in favor of a union and I'd like to see more of it, to tell you the truth.

GEORGE STONEY: I want you to say all that, but start of with, "I'm an elder in a church.

ROACH: Ok. I'm an elder in a church and I can see no way that, ah, it would 00:10:00affect being a Christian being a union member, because you're looking out for your rights and the rights of you fellah man.

GEORGE STONEY: Where would this guy get this idea, because he's a pretty prominent man in Charlotte. Where would he get the idea that the workers thought it was un-Christian?

ROACH: I couldn't say, because -- did he give any reason why he thought it? Well, I don't think so. My minister didn't -- he didn't, ah, talk against it at all. Ah, he even come and had meetings with us. And we had a -- a Catholic priest that instructed us in parliamentary procedure and he backed in all that we -- everything we had. All during our struggle with the company, he backed to 00:11:00the fullest extent.

M1: Battery change.

GEORGE STONEY: Okay. You were in the bleachery and the dye works, and it was a little bit -- you got a little bit better pay than the people in the cotton mills.

ROACH: Yes, sir.

GEORGE STONEY: I've heard these people called "lintheads." How did you feel about them?

ROACH: Well, we knew that those people that were making those goods was our backbone for service, so we -- we didn't -- we didn't feel bad towards 'em at all. See, their goods was what we were -- we were processing, printing and dyeing and so forth. So actually what, we were working so that they would have a job, too. So we didn't -- we didn't feel bad about it at all.

GEORGE STONEY: Could you talk about your own education?

ROACH: My education? Yes, sir. I started off on my grandmother's knee (laughs) with -- with the Bible and the catechism. I started to, ah, school in the first grade at Ebenezer Academy. And, ah, I always made, ah, my grade, never failed a grade from the time I went to school. I finished grammar school at -- here at Central and, ah, finished high school at Rock Hill High in 1927. And, ah, after that, why, I worked with my dad in a butcher -- slaughter (inaudible) for a little over a year, and I, ah, met a girl close by and we were 00:13:00married and we moved into a small house within four blocks of this one. And, ah, I didn't have a chance to go to college. I had a hundred -- two hundred-dollar scholarship to PC. Now I would have to borrow $1,200 then, back at that time, to go to PC and, ah, I wasn't any way for me to get $1,200. And I was going to work in the -- in the kitchen and whatever work I could do to get to college, but it wasn't any way that I could do that. So I got married and after I got married I did the trucking job and went to the plant and I stayed there from 1931 to '81.

GEORGE STONEY: Now you were -- you had a good bit more education than most of the fellahs in the plant. Could you talk about that?

ROACH: Well, ah, almost, ah, three-fourths of the people there were high school graduates and a few college people, but, ah, of course, Lowenstein -- Joslyn really -- he was Lowenstein's brother-in-law. So he was the one that fleeced the people where (inaudible). Now this, ah, J.J. Adams that hired me, he was a Clemson graduate and he went to work there for the same price I did. But he got advanced because he had a college education. He advanced from a laborer to a department supervisor to a interdepartment supervisor and assistant plant 00:15:00manager and then plant manager. That was one thing that you could say for the Lowenstein chain -- they advanced people that were of the caliber to be advanced, and they still do. Up to now they do that. Of course, now Springs has got it now, but, ah, up until as long as Lowenstein had it, that's what took place. And my -- and my job that I had, ah, I run my job just like that I owned it. I had, ah, ah -- I never seen a foreman unless he wanted something. And I 00:16:00-- and on my stock, I logged cloth in and logged it out. And, ah, until they put in a, ah --

GEORGE STONEY: The automatic measurer.

ROACH: Yeah. Yeah, they did that. And I never did -- I never did put stuff in a computer. I always laid it aside and let the other man put it in the system for me. And, ah, that way, why, I didn't feel like I was overmined(?) a long time and I didn't think that I wanted to learn that. But, anyway, two months after they put in on computer, New York wired down for them to get me to take inventory to see how the computer was coming out! (laughs)

GEORGE STONEY: Okay. One more -- one more thing. When you first started 00:17:00working in the mills, talk about how many colored people where there and what happened.

ROACH: Ah, there were -- most of the colored people there then was on the yard, yard crew. They were cleaners and done yard work and picked up stuff and kept it moving, trucking and so on. And, ah, they, ah -- finally they put blacks into the production work. It took 'em a long time, but they finally did. We didn't have but four or five blacks in my department, but they -- they right good work. There wasn't anything wrong with (inaudible). What they did, I thought was as good as some of the -- most of the white did.

GEORGE STONEY: Okay.

ROACH: We didn't have -- only -- only trouble about the blacks, they wanted -- 00:18:00when we were holding the election, Everett Joslyn wanted to, ah, ah, be sure that we took the blacks into the union. He thought that was going to break -- break the people because the -- on account of the, you know, the -- that whites wouldn't cooperate (inaudible) if he insisted on a black -- by the way, blacks has voted more than whites, according -- than the whites. So we -- we never had any problems.

GEORGE STONEY: Would you say that again, a little more clearly that Lowenstein, about, I mean uhh, how the boss, how the boss wanted you to separate the blacks and the whites and how it happened. Just tell that story again.

ROACH: You mean when they were organizing?

GEORGE STONEY: Yes.

ROACH: Well, he wanted to -- wanted the un-- the vote to include the black. And he thought that the whites were so much against the blacks, if he insisted 00:19:00they, ah, took the blacks' vote in the union, why, the union would fail because the white people wouldn't vote -- wouldn't vote because the blacks were voting. But it didn't turn out that way.

GEORGE STONEY: What happened?

ROACH: Well, we got the union and -- and the blacks is as good a union members as (laughs) as the white ones, too. And, by the way, we've got a -- had a black on the shop committee for several years now. So he -- and we got a Katalba Indian that's chairman of the (laughs) -- of the, ah, shop committee. I served several years as shop steward in my department. I, ah, never lost a case in arbitration or -- we either settled it in negotiation or arbitration, I won. (inaudible)

GEORGE STONEY: Now one more thing. You told me about going to meetings up North, about going to the convention.

ROACH: Yes, sir. I went to several conventions. I went to one in New York, one in Montreal, one in, ah -- two in Miami and, ah, I was elected to go several of the -- and we had, ah, outstanding people at the conventions, we did. And it was all, ah, ah, up building for the (inaudible).

GEORGE STONEY: Now we've -- just this last week we were up in north Georgia with a bunch of the young textile workers at a training session, where they were 00:21:00training shop stewards. Could you talk about the training of shop stewards?

ROACH: Ah, we had people come from the national union and we had have classes with, ah, pamphlets and material with explanation and questions that was to be answered and -- and graded by those people (inaudible). We did a lot of that, but sometimes twice a year or more we did it. (inaudible) it was very educational (inaudible).

GEORGE STONEY: Ok. Anything else Jamie that you see?

JAMIE STONEY: I want a wide shot to show the weather's changed outside.

GEORGE STONEY: Ok. What about you, questions?

JAMIE STONEY: Well I think I should ask that one on camera. Um what I want 00:22:00(inaudible) ask on camera. Did it make your union feel good when -- I assume that the union in New York that refused to cut this scab fabric was the ILG or one of those unions. When the workers in New York refused to cut and sew the scab fabric, how did that make you members feel? Did they feel that they were getting backing from other union members? During the strike when Lowenstein had scabs making cloth and bleaching it --

ROACH: Oh, we give 'em a hard time at the gate! (laughs)

JAMIE STONEY: But when he shipped it up North and they wouldn't cut it and sell it, he couldn't get it out on the market.

ROACH: Well, that was the company's problem. It wasn't ours. As long as they produced it by scabs, they couldn't sell it and we were out on the street. That was their problem!

JAMIE STONEY: Well, at least both sides were hurting then.

ROACH: That was their problem. We had --

GEORGE STONEY: Do you remember what your dues were?

ROACH: Sir?

GEORGE STONEY: Do you remember what your dues were?

ROACH: My duties during the strike?

GEORGE STONEY: Dues. How much did you have to pay to be a member of the union?

ROACH: Two dollars and something, I think, a month. And we had, ah, retirement. I'll tell ye', on our retirement, we -- after some good many years, when we would get a raise negotiated we would put, say, 5 cents or 7 cents an hour of that raise into a, ah, retirement fund. And the bleacher had a representative on it and the union had a representative on it. And, ah, it don't amount to much because we didn't put much in it. Mine's $89-and-something, I think. Won't even pay my light bill, but, anyway, it's $89. But, ah, if -- if we'd have got the money, we wouldn't even have that. So --

GEORGE STONEY: Ok, thank you very much!

JAMIE STONEY: (inaudible)

ROACH: I hope—

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