TONE
M1: We have speed.
M2: (inaudible)
GEORGE STONEY: Ok Judy.
JUDITH HELFAND: Um Could you tell me—
GEORGE STONEY: Don't whisper.
HELFAND: Alright, don't yell at me and I won't whisper. Earlier, when I was
sitting there in the corner of the room, we were talking about your father on the farm and when your dad decided that you had to move from the farm to the mill. Could you tell us where you were living in the country and why your dad had to move to the mill?CORRINE LINDSEY: Well, it was because the boll weevils were eating up the
cotton and you couldn't get -- couldn't make a living.STONEY: Go back on that Judy and get it.
HELFAND: Ok George I will. I need for you—do you want to stop for a sec? After
I asked.[break in video]
HELFAND: -- come to the mill. If you could tell me in a full story--
00:01:00LINDSEY: Why we left the farm?
HELFAND: Exactly. But before you tell me why you left the farm, tell me a
little bit what you did on the farm, and then what the problem was, and then why you had to leave.LINDSEY: We picked cotton and --
HELFAND: Mmm. Ok, like I said –
[break in video]
HELFAND: -- did and this is why we had to leave.
LINDSEY: We lived out from Roanoke, Alabama, and that's where we did our
shopping and we -- we picked cotton and -- and, ah, you know, had our chores just like most people do in the country, and liked it, but we got where we couldn't make a -- my dad couldn't make a living on the farm -- farm. So we moved to Roanoke -- I mean to, yeah, Roanoke, Alabama. And we went to work in the mill. So, ah, we had to go to work. They was 12 children and we went -- I 00:02:00had to go to work when I was 10 years old.HELFAND: Do you want to stop? What's wrong?
LINDSEY: (upset) That was very, very early, but I wasn't the only one. They
was a lot of people that did the same thing. Sorry.HELFAND: Are you crying because it was so painful to go to work so young?
LINDSEY: Naw, just sorry for my dad. (in tears) Anyway, I went to work when
I's 10 and worked there two years and left there and went to, ah, Linette, 00:03:00Alabama, and I worked there about two years and got married. Oh, it was much better in Linette than it was in Roanoke, Alabama.HELFAND: Why were you so sorry for your daddy?
LINDSEY: 'Cause he had such a hard time.
HELFAND: Tell me. Explain why your daddy had such a hard time and say your daddy.
LINDSEY: My daddy, he had to work so hard to make a living for all us children.
That's the reason I don't like big families. You can't do for 'em like you should. (crying)STONEY: (inaudible) Judy?
HELFAND: Yeah—
M1: Oh I'm sorry George, I'm sorry
HELFAND: Now in Roanoke, Alabama, when you were 10 you went to work?
00:04:00LINDSEY: That's right.
HELFAND: Okay. Now tell us about the first time you went into the mill when
you were 10 years old.LINDSEY: I was scared.
HELFAND: Ok, start with a full sentence, " I was scared."
LINDSEY: I was scared. I worked at night and we -- I had worked 12 hours then
and you was fit to be tired when you worked 12 hours.HELFAND: What did you do in the mill?
LINDSEY: The spinning room, worked in the spinning room spinning thread, you know.
HELFAND: Now you told me last time you were here that you were just a little
bitty girl.LINDSEY: Yeah, I was. I was. I had to stand on a stool to reach a -- reach
the work spinning. But, as I say, I wasn't by myself; they was others that did 00:05:00the same thing.HELFAND: Hi.
LINDSEY: Hey. (laughs)
HELFAND: Last time I asked you try as hard you can to describe to me what the
alley looked like and how tall the frames were and how many frames you had to work. And I want you to do that again and start with explain that you did have to stand on a box, and then describe the alley as best and as descriptive as you can.LINDSEY: Well, they were just room enough for the doffers to go down to pass
'ye' in the spinning room. It was just a small space, you know, for 'em. See, 00:06:00they doffed all this, put this thread, I mean this cotton, on a spool on a little spindle things there. And, ah, so that we did. When one would break, why, we would pick it up and then we had to wipe under the -- what they call the roping? Had to wipe under the roping ever so often. And you asked me if I ever had any time to -- to spin with the other -- to talk with the other people. You did not have time to talk. You was working from the time you got there, unless you went to the bathroom, and you carry your lunch. And if you didn't carry your lunch, they had what they call a dope wagon to come around and you bought your lunch if you didn't carry it. So we barely had time for that and your 00:07:00drink. So it was pretty rough, pretty rough.STONEY: How did a little bitty person like you reach those looms? Tell Judy.
HELFAND: Talk to me
LINDSEY: Stood on a stool and reached 'em and done very well at it.
HELFAND: Okay. Now tell me, I want to know how many frames you had to run and,
again, how fast -- if the work, if it moved fast --LINDSEY: Fast.
HELFAND: -- and you moved fast. So want you to start again and tell me from
your perspective standing on that box, how you had to do it, how fast it was, and the noise, I want about the noise—LINDSEY: Oh.
HELFAND: And I want to know about the lint. So I want you to think about that,
I want to think about—[break in video]
HELFAND: Start from standing on the box and then go through that kind of
description for me because I've never been in a mill. 00:08:00LINDSEY: Well, ah, as I say, you was -- I started off at two frames and I got
so good at it till I had 12 frames 'fore it was over. Now I don't know whether the 12 frames was there in Roanoke or Linette, but I know I started off with two. You have a teacher to teach ye', you know, and what happens, you -- you just have to keep your eye on 'em all the time. And if one breaks, why, you've got to be right there to fix it. And, ah, a lot of times the doffers don't put it on their right and you have a time with it, with the cotton a-going ever way, you know. If you have a good doffer, you don't have too much trouble. So I happened to have a pretty good doffer when I -- when I was going --HELFAND: Excuse me one moment.
[break in video]
HELFAND: -- in your mill?
00:09:00LINDSEY: A lot of times.
HELFAND: Ok, I want you to again tell us which mill it was, uh we're gonna—I
want you to say which mill – I want you again to tell me what mill you were in, wait , wait, and again I want you tell me you stood on a box—[break in video]
HELFAND: Ok, not from a living room on beautiful chair but on top of a box in
Roanoke Alabama, maybe its ten o'clock at night and you've been there four hours? So maybe you're tired? So—but again, I need you to explain—[break in video]
LINDSEY: I had to stand on a box to reach the roping, but the spinning's was
here. You understand? Down here, where you put your spools. And, ah, but, ah, when I had to stand on a box, that was to wipe the roping. I put some roping up there, you know, when it runs out. And so -- but the -- I didn't have to stand on a box for this down here, but it was when I had to reach up for the roping. 00:10:00And I don't know what else to tell you. I don't know how fast it goes. It's loud. You can't hear nobody talk, if that's what you want to know about. It's just impossible to hear anybody talk unless you just yelled. And so we never had a break at any time while you was on 12 hours.HELFAND: What if you were thirsty and you wanted to take a drink? What if you
needed to go to the bathroom? And start with a full sentence about--LINDSEY: Well, if you did, if she's friend enough to watch your frames while
you was gone, you'd let her watch. You'd get her to watch 'em. You would watch hers when she went to the bathroom. You understand?STONEY: What about the heat?
LINDSEY: Oh, oh, it was hot in there.
00:11:00HELFAND: Talk to me. Please talk to me. How hot was it?
LINDSEY: Oh, I don't know. It was real hot. They wouldn't allow a window
open, not one. They claimed that the draft, you know, made the machines -- the threads break and all that, roping, and, ah, they just didn't have -- we just didn't have any air in there. No fans or nothing.STONEY: Could you tell us what it was like going to there as a 10 year-old and
getting out the next morning, and what did you do?LINDSEY: Go home and go to bed! (laughs)
HELFAND: Ok, I want you describe what it was like to go in at 6 o'clock at
night. Did you walk there with the other kids? When you walked in did you go straight to your alley?LINDSEY: Its walking distance from the house.
HELFAND: Ok, start with a full sentence – Start from the top, "It was
walking distance from the house and at 6 o'clock I'd go into the mill." And continue, and explain to me—[break in video]
LINDSEY: Well, we left home around 6 -- well, we got -- well, we got there
00:12:00about 6 and we worked 12 hours and it, ah -- you started to work immediately after you got in there. And, of course, you had supper and everything at home, you know. If you wanted a snack during, you know, about 12 o'clock, you carried your lunch or you bought it. And, ah, you got off 6 the next morning. And, ah, as far as being -- how I felt, I was scared to death when I first started, but after I got, you know, used to it and all, I thought the bosses was going to be real mean, but they wasn't. They was just as nice as they could be, real nice, the ones I had was. And they tried to help me in every way they could. The -- 00:13:00what do you call 'em? Not superintendents, but I forget what you called 'em.HELFAND: Second hand?
LINDSEY: Second hand, uh huh, he helped -- helped me out a lot. And far as you
said when we first went to the mill, tell you about my brothers, you know, what happened. Do you want to hear that?HELFAND: Sure. Why don't you talk about -- you told me before that your father
didn't want to go to the mill.LINDSEY: No, he didn't.
HELFAND: He had heard stories about the mill.
LINDSEY: Yeah.
HELFAND: Could you start from that and explain why as a farmer he didn't want
to go to the mill?LINDSEY: Well, we hadn't been there two weeks till he told my mother we made a
mistake coming here. He didn't like it at all, and so, ah, we, ah, stayed on, though, about two years at Roanoke. And, ah, we had, ah -- my mother took in boarders, you know, to help make ends meet. And that's the reason we had a 00:14:00six-room house. See, all them was duplex, but for this reason, her taking in boarders, we got on with six rooms. As far as having, ah, ah, water and light, I don't know whether we had, ah, lights or not, to tell you the truth. That's been such a long time. And it's -- everybody there was almost in the same boat, so you didn't feel that you was the only one there, you know, like that.STONEY: What about education?
HELFAND: Tell us about your education and they going and then how you taught
yourself or practiced how to read later on.LINDSEY: Yeah. We didn't have much time. They had a teacher on Saturdays and
00:15:00then you'd carry you -- if you had the time, you could carry your books and study the little time you had left. And, ah --HELFAND: Could you start explain that to me, " Oh about my education, oh I
only went up," I don't know what was for you maybe, "until the second grade and then I went into the mills. So I didn't have much more time--"LINDSEY: No I didn't.
HELFAND: Ok, I need a whole story, you understand? Its like me opening—
[break in video]
LINDSEY: It was -- you get very little education when you get hung up in a mill
like that. You just don't have the time. So what you get, you have to fight for. (laughs)HELFAND: How did you do that?
LINDSEY: Well, I just -- I just took time. I didn't get too much, so I just,
ah, done the best I could. And so did the other children. It's, ah -- it's 00:16:00just not a place to raise children, I don't think. I wouldn't want one of mine to go through what I went through at all. And I said then that mine would never go through what I did. (crying)STONEY: You brought home money for your parents.
LINDSEY: Yeah. (crying)
STONEY: You just have felt proud of doing that.
LINDSEY: I did.
STONEY: Could you tell Judy that?
HELFAND: Talk to me about how proud you felt.
LINDSEY: Yeah. I remember the first check I got. I went home and give it to
my dad. (crying) And I felt like I'd really done something. It's not like today. I don't know whether they would be willing to give -- give it up or not, 00:17:00but I felt proud to give it to him.HELFAND: I'm sure your father--
LINDSEY: Oh, yeah, he was a good man. Just had too many children to make it.
You know, back then people had big families. (crying)HELFAND: You told me that sometimes you -- when the spinning, when your frames
were going well, you could take a little time and read a book. Could you tell me that story? That's such a beautiful image. I went home from here really very grateful that you gave me that picture in my head.LINDSEY: Oh, I don't know. It's been so long ago.
HELFAND: Well try and describe, you really described it for me the other day.
00:18:00LINDSEY: I don't think I want to talk about it.
HELFAND: Okay. Now I'm sure you and your family, your brothers and sisters,
you must have had some time to have some good times with each other, didn't you?LINDSEY: We did. We did. We got along just beautifully.
HELFAND: Can you tell me about your family that way?
LINDSEY: Yeah, we -- the first set of children was girls and had two older
sisters, and, ah, we really enjoyed each other. Last set was boys. Of course, they -- they was a little hard to handle when they come along, you know. But we got along fine.HELFAND: Did you all eat your meals together?
LINDSEY: Oh, yeah.
HELFAND: Tell me about—I'm sure that must have been nice to come home and
have dinner with everybody?LINDSEY: With everybody. It's a good memory.
HELFAND: Is that a good memory? Tell me about that memory.
00:19:00LINDSEY: Oh, well, I, ah, when we lived in Linette, Alabama, the man I married,
he always walked me home at night. My dad -- we were a little late getting home, cause we walked slow and talked, you know. And so he said, "If you don't get home on time from now on, you just won't have any supper." (laughs) I said, "You don't mean that, Papa." He said, "Yes, I do, too." Well he was very strict with us. He said, "Next time," said, "you be here when time to eat." So I did. I was there on time next time. (laughs)STONEY: What did they wear in the mill?
LINDSEY: Just regular clothes. Just regular clothes like, you know, not no
uniform or anything like that. Just whatever you wanted to wear, but they -- they didn't wear pants and stuff then, just dresses. But it was dangerous. 00:20:00Them belts were liable to, you know, wrap around your clothes. You had to be very, very careful that you didn't get near those belts.HELFAND: Did you or any of the other children that were working ever have any
accidents in the mill?LINDSEY: Now, well, I caught my finger one time. I've still got a scar there.
I pushed down a bobbin too hard and -- and I had a pretty bad scar for a long time, but other than that, I never did. Wasn't nothing serious.HELFAND: Now- ok—
STONEY: Judy, I think, let's move on to Welch.
[break in video]
LINDSEY: No he didn't like the mill.
HELFAND: Ok, now wait—whenever we're ready we're ready?
M1: Yeah
M2: Rolling
00:21:00HELFAND: Now I want-- Now this man that would walk you home, your husband, did
you meet him working in the mill?LINDSEY: Uh hum.
HELFAND: Okay. Tell me how you met him, how you courted, and then how you left
the mill.LINDSEY: Well, I met him at a ballpark.
HELFAND: Say his name.
LINDSEY: Marvin Lindsey. I met him at the ballpark at Chalmet(?), Alabama, and
so we went together about a year. Saw each other every day. So he -- he left and went to LaGrange. He just never did like the mill at all. And, ah, so I thought we'd just, you know, really busted up for good. He come back, and so he said, "I'm going to get you out of that mill." And (laughs) I said, "How?" (laughs) He said, "I'm going to get you out of the mill." So he said, ah, "How 'bout marrying? Let's get married." And I said, "Ooh, I'm too young to get married." Said, "No, you're not." So I married at not quite 16. I've been 00:22:00happy ever since, up until he died. Never did separate or anything. He was just a real man to me. (laughs)HELFAND: How did it feel to get out of the
cotton mill? And please say cotton mill and explain how if felt.LINDSEY: Oh, it was -- it was nice to get out, real nice, cause I didn't --
wasn't that crazy about it at all. I just, like I said, I just went to work because to help my dad out. And, ah, so the man I married, he didn't like the mill and he -- right away he went in business for himself. At Hogansville he just really -- he had a finger in the pie in everything, you know, buying cattle and car salesman and worked with three or four men in a filling station in a 00:23:00garage. And he -- he just done real well and he -- he didn't have -- he didn't finish college or anything like that, but he was a smart man. But, ah, they was pretty big crowd of them, too. His daddy died young and he had to be the -- the dad for the rest of the family. So that made him, you know, be a good provider.HELFAND: A lot of people I've spoke to looked down at the cotton mill people.
LINDSEY: Oh, yeah.
HELFAND: Now you were in there and then you were out. You were in a peculiar situation.
LINDSEY: That's right.
HELFAND: Can you talk about, explain that situation that you were in and talk
about being in the middle of both worlds.LINDSEY: Well, it wasn't -- it wasn't as bad in Linette as it was at Roanoke.
00:24:00They didn't look down on you there as much as they did up there, and they didn't work ye' as hard as they did at Roanoke. It was -- if I'd have been a man, I couldn't sleep at night working people that was 10 years old and 12 years old. That's the way I feel about the mill. And I know they's good people there, but I just didn't believe in -- shouldn't have hired nobody at that age. That's the way I feel about it.HELFAND: So you came to Hogansville.
LINDSEY: Yeah. (laughs)
HELFAND: She smiles already. You come to Hogansville
LINDSEY: Yeah, that was our dream place. And he just--
GEORGE STONEY: Could you say Hogansville was our dream place.
LINDSEY: Hogansville was our dream place, yeah. We come there with nothing and
00:25:00Homer Welch, the guy that was head of the union, got Marvin to come up there. He said, "Marvin, you've got a good head on your shoulders. I want you to come up there and go in business." He said, "Heck, I don't have money to go in business." And he says, "You'll make it." And the first thing he started off with was a grocery store. Well, it was Plano Mill right across the street from us. All them people at the Plano Mill traded with him, and then from that, he started buying used cars and selling 'em. And then he moved right downtown. This was right on a highway in Hogansville. And so he had two stations down there and had about six men a-working for 'im. And we lived out -- just the outskirts of Hogansville in an old colonial house out there. And he started a-buying up cattle and stuff like that. He just seemed like everything he went 00:26:00at turned -- you know, he made good at it. And he didn't want to leave. He didn't want to come to Atlanta, but, like I told you, we come on account of Helen. She wanted to come up here, and he didn't have two girls and he thought they was just it. I said, "You mean we're going to sell everything and go to Atlanta?" He said, "We certainly are. If she's determined she's coming to Atlanta," said, "we're going, too." So we did. And he did, ah -- he did pretty good here in Atlanta in business. He never did work for nobody else much. He'd always had a business of his own.HELFAND: I want you to think back to Hogansville and your husband getting out
of the mill at Linette, Alabama. And you might mention Linette Alabama so everyone knows what state we're in and explain why it was so important for your husband to not have a boss, or to be his own boss. Please start with a full sentence.LINDSEY: I don't know. I really don't know that. He just felt like he could
make more, you know, by being in business for himself. He had a good 00:27:00personality. Everybody liked him. So I guess that was the reason. He just -- he'd rather be -- and we come to Atlanta, so he did get a job in Atlanta at the (inaudible) place. He didn't like it. He didn't like it at all. So he finally got a business of his own. Helen's husband and him had a business out on Gordon Road. He just didn't like working for the other fella.HELFAND: I want to go back to Hogansville. Yay Hogansville! And I want to
talk about Hogansville and you not working in the mill anymore and what you think -- what you know about people -- what people thought about folks who worked in a mill –and you whose husband worked in a business.LINDSEY: There was a little –
HELFAND: Start the sentence again, I cut you off.
LINDSEY: Yeah, the mill people thought that -- that the, ah, people in town
00:28:00looked down on them, but I tell you one thing. Them mill people had as much, if not more, than some of the people uptown. They had they house furnished real well and all of 'em had nice cars and all of that. My husband said, "Well, I'm not saying a thing in the world about 'em." Said, "They're all nice to me and I've got customers at the mill. I got customers here in town." Said, "I like 'em all." And so he -- he just -- the only time his business fell off any at all is when he, ah, let Homer Welch, ah, use his truck for the, ah, people at the strike, striking, you know. And they didn't like that much. So finally he got his business back, though. But they was a little confusement there for a while.M1: Ok, we need to change tapes.