Corrine Lindsey Interview 2

JUDITH HELFAND: OK, well then, let's talk about it. Talk about Roosevelt's influence on Hogansville in the 1930s.

CORINNE LINDSEY: Well, I don't know about that. I remember when he died. I cried all the way home. I don't know too much about you know him what he did and all but I [liked?] him very well when he died. He was so much like my Daddy favored him but um I don't know too much about what part he played you know with the mill people and all. I just don't know about that.

GEORGE STONEY: Let's talk about Welch.

HELFAND: You mentioned that Homer Welch was the one who brought you over to Hogansville.

LINDSEY: Yeah, that's right.

HELFAND: I know Homer and his wife Lee Ellen his daughter were very close to you. Could you tell us about Homer Welch? You mentioned Homer Welch. Please don't say 'he.'

LINDSEY: Homer Welch was a-- everybody liked him. Everybody. He was a good friend of my husband's. He used my husband's truck to carry these people you know around that was on the union people and uh so when they uh when he was Talladega when they had his trial they had him come up therein testify and so they asked him asked my husband Marvin Lindsey why did he let him have the truck for these union people he said I rent my truck out to anybody that's got the money, besides he's a friend of mine. That's what he told them, and that's 00:02:00about all they got out of him about that. And so uh he said if I had it to do over I'd still let him have the truck so. That was uh they just good friends up until he died and-- So was I and his wife. Leolyn was his wife. Homer he was just a good person real good person and everybody liked him except a few people who you know didn't like the union. They had some things to say about him, but we didn't agree with them.

STONEY: How did you feel about the union? Tell Judy.

LINDSEY: How I feel?

HELFAND: How did you feel about the union?

LINDSEY: I didn't know much about it at first. I kinda was against it.

HELFAND: Could you start that again and instead of saying it say the union?

LINDSEY: The Union. I didn't know too much about it to start with but as it went on and all he uh I came to think that Homer was right. You know this mill kept coming back to me you know how they worked people for nothing so I uh agreed with him whole heartedly so uh it's uh about it about Homer. I just couldn't find no fault with him up until he died. He lived a lot longer than 00:04:00my husband. My husband died at 53. It was a heart attack and I never found nothing wrong with him.

STONEY: Other people in the town felt very different about the union. Could you talk about that?

HELFAND: Talk, talk to me.

LINDSEY: Well, you see I lived out in the country and I didn't know near as much about it as my husband. See he heard it every day.

HELFAND: You know what I'm going to ask you to say, I lived out in the country outside Hogansville so we don't--

LINDSEY: Yeah. I lived in the country--

HELFAND: Start again.

LINDSEY: I lived in the country outside of Hogansville, and I didn't know too much about the union until it went on and as it went on I could see where he was right. They were working people for nothing and uh so I did take Homer Welch's 00:05:00side. So uh, they moved away then. They moved to South Carolina and we didn't keep in touch with them like we did when they were there in Hogansville, but they visited us from time to time. Sometime they'd come in as late as two o'clock in the morning. I'd fix something to eat and we'd sit up the rest of the night and talk. So I don't find no fault with Homer.

HELFAND: Other people-- Yes George?

STONEY: Ask her about--

[break in video]

HELFAND: Took place.

Lindsey: Yes sir.

HELFAND: Ok. Tell me about the national strike in and call it that please.

LINDSEY: The nat--nati--national strike--

HELFAND: Start again, let's try it again.

LINDSEY: The nin--

HELFAND: We could just say the strike.

LINDSEY: The strike. I just heard about them all being locked up out at Fort Mac. And uh there was several friends of ours in there. In fact there was one man that was our paper man. So he was locked up out there, Mr. Zimmerman. And 00:06:00Mr. Zimmerman's daughter. Y'all talked to the other, I forget her name. You know who I'm talking about?

HELFAND: You know what, why don't you start Mr. Zimmerman's daughter Etta Mae.

[break in video]

LINDSEY: Etta Mae.

HELFAND: Excuse me, start with, "My paper man Mr. Zimmerman" and you know now its Etta Mae, continue from there.

LINDSEY: Our paper man Mr. Zimmerman and his daughter was also locked up in Fort Mac. A lot of friends of ours. I forgot how many was locked up now do you remember?

HELFAND: About 128.

LINDSEY: Yeah. I think they had to. My husband trucked in when they got locked up. I'm not sure about that but I think so. So uh I believe they was up there about a week best I can remember about a week locked up. That stirred everybody 00:07:00up. You better believe it. Some people were really mad. Especially Mr. Zimmerman. He had a lot to say about uh what was the governor's name then -- I can't think of his name.

HELFAND: Talmadge. Eugene Talmadge.

LINDSEY: Yeah Eugene Talmadge. Tell him to go you know where. So he was really mad.

STONEY: Could you go back and tell that story again about Eugene Talmadge.

HELFAND: I have a question. When did -- Where did Mr. Zimmerman tell you how mad he was? When he brought you the paper?

LINDSEY: Yeah.

HELFAND: Ok. Why don't you just start with -- Did he bring it in the morning or the evening?

LINDSEY: I don't remember that.

HELFAND: Ok, start with Mr. Zimmerman bringing the paper. This is after he got out of Fort Mac right?

LINDSEY: Yeah, that's right.

HELFAND: Ok. Start with after he got out of Fort Mac, Mr. Zimmerman would bring 00:08:00me the paper, and you can take it from there.

LINDSEY: After Mr. Zimmerman got out of the Fort Mac. He was telling my husband about it. He said, you know what I told him said I told him to tell Talmadge to go you know where. And he was mad. I'm telling you he was mad. Just raving. And he went on to say and they had my daughter up there too and several others that we knew. That was something that he was really mad about.

HELFAND: What did you think about that?

LINDSEY: I didn't think they should have done it. I didn't think they should have locked him up. I don't think so.

HELFAND: Was Homer Wel--can you explain-- Was Homer Welch there? And what was happening.

LINDSEY: I don't whether he was or not. I really don't know.

HELFAND: Ok start with, "I don't know where Homer Welch was."

LINDSEY: I don't know where Homer Welch was. I really don't. I don't know if he was there when they locked him up. I don't think so though. I never did hear anything about it. I don't think he was there at that time.

HELFAND: Now what was going on in the town when all these folks came back from Fort McPherson?

LINDSEY: Just talking you know. (laughs)

HELFAND: Ok. I'm gonna ask you to start that story again about when they came back, you know we want to cut out my questions.

LINDSEY: Oh yes.

HELFAND: "When they came back from Fort Mac…" and then explain what happened in the town. Ok?

LINDSEY: Ok.

HELFAND: And go with it you know. (makes whispering noise) Imagine what they might have been saying. If you heard about it in store tell me about the situation. Be specific ok?

LINDSEY: Ok.

HELFAND: When they got back from Fort Mac (makes whispering noises)

LINDSEY: There was a lot of them--

HELFANS: Start, start, when they got back from Fort Mac.

LINDSEY: When they got back from Fort Mac I went downtown and everybody was talking about it. They was standing on the streets huddled up you know (whisper sounds) just talking. Of course, I didn't know what they were saying. But I knew they was really giving them something to talk about. That went on for a long time you know about locking him up.

GEORGE STONEY: Do you think that frightened people?

LINDSEY: I don't know whether it did or not, but I kind of think so. I think it did.

STONEY: Could you say that again? Yes Judy?

LINDSEY: I don't know whether it did or not. I kind of think so.

STONEY: No just say "I didn't--"

HELFAND: George, I'll do it.

STONEY: Right, ok.

HELFAND: I want to know if this--did this frighten people? And please use the word frighten. And explain that? One second can I fix --

[break in video]

HELFAND: Did getting rounded up at Fort McPherson for a whole week frighten these people? Talk about that.

LINDSEY: You mean the people who were locked up?

HELFAND: The people who were locked up and the people in town.

LINDSEY: Well it's--

HELFAND: Please don't say it's--Getting lock up in Fort Mac.

LINDSEY: I don't know whether they were scared or what. I just don't know. I don't know hardly how they felt about it. I really don't know. But it was all the talk all over town. It was what people was talking about was that about them getting locked up. Every time you was talking to anybody they was talking 00:12:00about that. I don't know whether they was scared of anybody [else?] or not. I really don't.

HELFAND: When I mean frightened, I'm also thinking about the people that stayed in the town and if that frightened them to never try and unionize again or if they never tried to change anything again.

LINDSEY: I don't know that either. I really don't.

HELFAND: What do you think? What do you think about it?

LINDSEY: Well, I just don't know. I really don't know. I was surprised when I heard they were locked up. I know that. I really was surprised.

HELFAND: Now, again, after they were locked up. What impact did that have on your husband's business? Can you talk about that boycott?

LINDSEY: Well, his business fell off some. But he didn't back down at all. He didn't tell them nothing. When they mentioned it to him he said well I'll rent my truck to anybody that's got the money. Besides he was a friend of mine. I told you that before. And they just didn't say nothing else about it 00:13:00when he'd say that.

HELFAND: What kind of leader was Homer Welch? I mean Homer Welch came to your house. You saw him often. Can you talk about Homer Welch as a union leader?

LINDSEY: Well he--

HELFAND: Please say Homer Welch.

LINDSEY: Homer Welch was 100% a leader. Absolutely. Anybody could tell that by just talking to him. He was a leader.

HELFAND: Did you ever see Homer Welch make a speech. Did you see him actually doing that?

LINDSEY: No, I never have. I really haven't.

STONEY: Could you talk about, say that again about a leader and talk about his church work, tell Judy about it? Start with Homer

HELFAND: Homer Welch, he was a leader not only in the union, but then talk about the church.

LINDSEY: Homer Welch was a leader, a good leader, and he not only a leader for the union but he was a leader in the church also. He was just a man that he'd get what he went after. That's the way I figure. He'd get what he went after.

HELFAND: We've heard stories that he was very generous. He would come home and…

LINDSEY: Yeah.

HELFAND: Can you please start --

STONEY: Let her, let her…

LINDESEY: He would.

STONEY: Homer.

HELFAND: Homer.

LINDSEY: Homer Welch would come home. Of course his wife had two or three pairs of shoes in the closet. You know and if he found out that one of the -- what do you call it? Needed a pair of shoes he'd just get a pair of her shoes and carry them to her. He was just that generous.

HELFAND: Are you talking about the union people that were part of his union if they needed shoes?

LINDSEY: Yeah, people part of the union.

M1: Thank you the contact thank you.

HELFAND: Why don't you tell me that story again and this time you could use the word, a woman in the union.

LINDSEY: The woman in the union, if she needed a pair of shoes, he would go look in his wife's closet and he seen that she had two or three pairs of shoes, he would get a pair of shoes and carry it to this lady. Or vise -- do the same thing for men. He was just that type.

HELFAND: Could you talk about why Homer and his family had to leave Hogansville.

LINDSEY: I don't know why they left Hogansville to tell you the truth. I really don't. Unless it's a better job. I don't know. I don't know why they left. We sure missed them.

STONEY: Ask about him as an educated man.

HELFAND: Could you talk about Homer Welch as an educated man?

LINDSEY: He didn't go to college if that's what you mean.

HELFAND: Please don't … Homer.

LINDSEY: Homer Welch didn't go to college. He absolutely didn't. And his wife either. She didn't go to college. But Homer he just had it. I don't know. It was just there. He wasn't a college man or anything like that, but uh he really knew what he was doing. We went to see him when he was in jail in Talladega, but we didn't get to talk to him but just a little bit. A bunch of us went over there to see him one day. Just for the day. His wife and Opal 00:17:00Dean and several others. Helen I think she went with us too. But he'd still say he believes in what he's doing.

HELFAND: What was Homer Welch trying to do for Hogansville?

LINDSEY: Well he was trying to --

HELFAND: Homer.

LINDSEY: Homer Welch was trying to get more pay for people who worked in the mill. That's what he was trying to do. However, Hogansville payed more than most mills. It was a nice…if you're going to work in a mill I said that was the place to be. His wife worked in mill for a while but she had a sitting down job and just as clean as it could be in there. And she worked long enough down there to buy them a little home there in Hogansville. But it was nice as it 00:18:00could be. That's the only one I have ever been in. The other mill I had never even been it…the older mill. This was a new mill that she worked it. And it was just as nice as it could be. And she had a job where she could sit down just like a secretary. Sit down and work.

STONEY: Could you tell us what Homer Welch looked like? Just describe him.

LINDSEY: Did y'all see his picture?

HELFAND: Actually George did, but I didn't. Could you describe to me what Homer Welch looked like?

LINDSEY: He nice looking man. Nice looking. Dressed well. Talked well. Nice looking fellow.

HELFAND: Did Homer ever try and talk with you and tell you, you know, what he was feeling or his feelings about the union or what he was trying to do?

LINDSEY: No. He never talked to me about it. He did to Marvin my husband. He 00:19:00talked to him about it. He told me a little about it. My husband. My husband thought he was doing the right thing. He said they shouldn't work them for nothing. His wife did. Now she told me a lot of things. Some of it I don't even want to repeat. But she I can't blame her in one way. She was alone a lot and wasn't with the family as much as she'd like for him to be. But he was trying to make a living. But I don't have anything bad to say about him at all.

HELFAND: We're not trying to get anything bad out about Homer Welch. I want to remind you of that.

LINDSEY: I know that. I know that. Well, I don't know anything bad to say 00:20:00about him. It's just that plain. Sure don't.

HELFAND: The town I suspect is very threatened by Homer Welch.

LINDSEY: It was, it was.

HELFAND: Can you talk about that and use that word?

LINDSEY: Well, you see I had a little one and I didn't get out too much. Joyce was a baby and she I had two or three operations and I didn't uh get out and mix very much with people along at that time. And so I just don't know.

HELFAND: Um you know I found a little note about Homer Welch in a newspaper.

LINDSEY: Oh, you did.

HELFAND: About that round up. Would you like to hear it.?

LINDSEY: Yes, I do.

HELFAND: And I was very surprised at it because it's different from what everybody's told us. Ok. It says here, I'm setting it up, they're already at Fort McPherson and they are talking about some of the people there.

STONEY: This is coming from the what?

HELFAND: This is coming from the Atlanta Journal Constitution. And it says here "Strike Prisoners in Cheerful Mood". Ok that's the title. I'm jumping down a bit. One of the men in custody said he was HL Welch, President of the textile union at Hogansville. He said he was arrested carrying arms but had a permit to do so. The girls referred to him as "our leader" quote unquote.

LINDSEY: Yeah. I didn't see that but I that's about true. Our leader. They looked up to him.

STONEY: Read her what

HELFAND: Etta Mae?

STONEY: Etta Mae said, she could describe that, what kind person Etta Mae was at that time.

HELFAND: Yeah. Can you talk about the Zimmerman sisters. Etta Mae, Lavella, and Leona? Mentioned them by name.

LINDSEY: I knew, see Boots Palm married one of those girls. That's Helen's first husband's brother -- half-brother. And I knew Leona, and the others I didn't know too well. But I knew Leona. She was a sweet person, and I think that she had two old maid sisters. One of them's dead now, but I didn't know the other two very well. And she also had some brothers and I didn't know them.

HELFAND: I wonder. Well, they're quoted here, "A number of women from Hogansville were rounded up at Fort McPherson. The Horton sisters, Etta Mae,

LINDSEY: Yeah. Yeah. Was any of the Teals in it?

HELFAND: They might have been.

LINDSEY: I just wondered if y'all talked to any of the Teals.

HELFAND: Are they alive?

LINDSEY: Huh?

HELFAND: Are they alive?

LINDSEY: I don't know.

HELFAND: Ok. Maude Granger was in it too.

LINDSEY: Who?

HELFAND: Maude Granger

LINDSEY: Yeah. Yeah. I remember her.

HELFAND: Tell us about Maude Granger

LINDSEY: I don't know her well, but I heard about her through [Leal?]. She knows her real well.

HELFAND: What do you think the town thought of these women that were locked up at Fort McPherson?

LINDSEY: Oh, I don't…I know they criticized them something awful.

HELFAND: Could you say that again and explain the women that were locked up were criticized?

LINDSEY: The women was locked up were criticized by the town people. The real. I don't know how to put it. Real. I don't know. But she'd say. How would you say that? Terrible. [Laughs.] I just don't know how to put that. I 00:24:00didn't really hear myself, but I heard that they was criticized something terrible. The women were.

HELFAND: What do you think about hose women that went out on strike?

LINDSEY: Like I said at first I wasn't for it at all. But as it went on I said well they were doing what they thought was right. So I don't know which one's right tell you the truth. I don't think I'd've went out on strike. Just put it that way. Cause it was kind-a dangerous you know. Real dangerous.

HELFAND: Some of these women who did go out on strike that are still living in Hogansville. Some of them don't want to talk to us.

LINDSEY: Is that right? Well, I thought [Sheryl?], that some of the Teals it uh Zimmerman girls she talked to would tell you about the Teals because they were on that strike. On the list. They were real, real, nice girls too. Real sweet girls. But they just believed in the strike.

HELFAND: Ok. George

[break in video]

HELFAND:…if I can find it then I can quote you, and I found it. Ok. Says here. 00:26:00Says, this is dated September 18, 1934. "Arrested loaded on trucks. Bound for detention camps at Fort McPherson. "And there's an article underneath. It says "Strike Prisoners in Cheerful Mood. Interment camp inmates seem principally concerned about meals. As long as they feed us we're not howling said one man."

LINDSEY: [Laughs]. [God].

HELFAND: Etta Mae Zimmerman one of the girl prisoners said, "We feel more honored to go out with a national guard than with the scabs".

LINDSEY: [Laughs].

HELFAND: She lives at Hogansville some distance from Newnan. It was from that cotton mill center that most of the 128 prisoners came.

LINDSEY: Mmm hmm

HELFAND: What do you think about Etta Mae Zimmerman now?

LINDSEY: I don't know. [laughing]

HELFAND: Do you understand what she meant?

LINDSEY: Yeah.

HELFAND: What do you think she meant?

LINDSEY: I'm not sure what she meant. Read that again.

HELFAND: Etta Mae Zimmerman one of the girl prisoners--

STONEY: Maybe she can read it?

HELFAND: Yeah.

LINDSEY: No I'll let her read it.

HELFAND: Well do you want to try?

LINDSEY: No.

HELFAND: There is some small print. Ok. Etta Mae Zimmerman one of the girl prisoners said, "We feel more honored to go out with a national guard than with the scabs".

LINDSEY: Scabs. Who was they calling scabs.

HELFAND: Well I guess the scabs were the people who went to work and crossed the picket lines.

LINDSEY: Yeah. Oh, yeah. I don't what to say about that.

HELFAND: Like I said there's some people still living in Hogansville who are on both sides of this situation.

LINDSEY: I'm sure.

HELFAND: Some of them want to talk to us, and some of them like the Horton sisters, they don't want to talk to us at all.

LINDSEY: Did y'all go to see them?

HELFAND: They won't let us come and see them.

LINDSEY: Mmmm.

HELFAND: Could you talk about why you think people living in Hogansville now who were in this situation 57 years ago would be afraid to talk about this.

LINDSEY: I Know. You know most people I knew when I lived there are all dead or gone. This complete new set of people except a few. Very few people. It was a nice little place to live at one time.

STONEY: I think --